posted
Sudanese people are interesting...They're majority North African and East African, yet are lighter than most black berbers who are supposed to be majority Heratin...
posted
According to the video she's 88.1% SSA specifically East African(Thats more SSA than me)
compared to this Amizagh Girl from Tunis....
If black Berbers like that girl have SSA is minute to say the least. Trying to equate Genotype/Phenotype isnt scientific
If the two girls complexion was switched, the Berber would be touted as an example of a pristine pure Berber.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: According to the video she's 88.1% SSA specifically East African(Thats more SSA than me)
compared to this Amizagh Girl from Tunis....
If black Berbers like that girl have SSA is minute to say the least. Trying to equate Genotype/Phenotype isnt scientific
If the two girls complexion was switched, the Berber would be touted as an example of a pristine pure Berber.
I don't understand your point ?? haratin have west african ancestry with a minor berber component they went through a processus of arabization or berberization again read : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haratin
While east africans are a different and old population with a different eurasian component you can't compare the two. And btw both look off for north africa
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
posted
Ok if you still don't believe me no problem I found haratin results from Tunisia :
He looks like this :
In comparison this is what I got with Myheritage :
and this is what other white berbers get :
So as I told you white berbers are way more indigenous. Black berbers are the product of the recent slave trade.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, I remember asking the Forum years ago about this, Ive never seen the Tamahu depicted like Europeans like in that colorized cartoon rendering...They're always pale-Yellow to reddish-pink
posted
My point is that just because someone is SSA doesnt mean their skin is dark, the girl in the video has very little Eurasian ancestry if any, only 1.5% is "Broadly" Middle Eastern and North African meaning she probably has distant possible ancestry from the Middle East, she's majority African, East and North, yet skin and features wise she's lighter than most Black Berbers who are supposed to be Haratin
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean:
While east africans are a different and old population with a different eurasian component you can't compare the two. And btw both look off for north africa
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: My point is that just because someone is SSA doesnt mean their skin is dark, the girl in the video has very little Eurasian ancestry if any, only 1.5% is "Broadly" Middle Eastern and North African meaning she probably has distant possible ancestry from the Middle East, she's majority African, East and North, yet skin and features wise she's lighter than most Black Berbers who are supposed to be Haratin
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean:
While east africans are a different and old population with a different eurasian component you can't compare the two. And btw both look off for north africa
that's because you didn't read much about east africa's ancestry ...the east african component on her genetic test is almost half eurasian that's why most horners are craniometrically caucasoids.
posted
Nassa I had to edit this, I was looking at the wrong person
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: My point is that just because someone is SSA doesnt mean their skin is dark, the girl in the video has very little Eurasian ancestry if any, only 1.5% is "Broadly" Middle Eastern and North African meaning she probably has distant possible ancestry from the Middle East, she's majority African, East and North, yet skin and features wise she's lighter than most Black Berbers who are supposed to be Haratin
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean:
While east africans are a different and old population with a different eurasian component you can't compare the two. And btw both look off for north africa
Also just look at the haratin's results I posted don't avoid it
Nassa that man has clear stereotypical features of SSA/Heratin...
The girl does'nt
More
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: My point is that just because someone is SSA doesnt mean their skin is dark, the girl in the video has very little Eurasian ancestry if any, only 1.5% is "Broadly" Middle Eastern and North African meaning she probably has distant possible ancestry from the Middle East, she's majority African, East and North, yet skin and features wise she's lighter than most Black Berbers who are supposed to be Haratin
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean:
While east africans are a different and old population with a different eurasian component you can't compare the two. And btw both look off for north africa
Also just look at the haratin's results I posted don't avoid it
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Sigh, Nassa that man is 2% SSA...that 1 % higher than some of the white berbers you are posting...
2% is not recent, its at least 4-5(If I remember correctly) generations back, 2% is distant.
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: Ok if you still don't believe me no problem I found haratin results from Tunisia :
He looks like this :
So as I told you white berbers are way more indigenous. Black berbers are the product of the recent slave trade.
??? wtf are you talking about the haratin I Posted is almost half black
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted October 10, 2011 by alTakruri:
Juba II madness
_______ Juba II Numidian African ____________ Typical Euro-Roman
The Numidian differs from the European in all the stereotypical hair and facial features. The hair is thicker and "wilder." The eye is larger and rounder. The cheek bones are higher and more protruding. The nose is flatter and broader with nostrils tending to round/oval rather than oblong/slit shape. The lips are thicker and more everted. King Juba II's antecedents thus seem the type of black autochthonous to littoral North Africa.
posted
A black person either has a black phenotype or doesn't, Nassbean. Blacks with so-called "Caucasoid" features are still labeled black socially. And that's important because race is a social construct, not a rational and genetically sound construct. When you say "half black" you're likely trying to drag genotypes back into the discussion to bring psuedoscience back into the conversation.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted October 10, 2011 by alTakruri:
Juba II madness
_______ Juba II Numidian African ____________ Typical Euro-Roman
The Numidian differs from the European in all the stereotypical hair and facial features. The hair is thicker and "wilder." The eye is larger and rounder. The cheek bones are higher and more protruding. The nose is flatter and broader with nostrils tending to round/oval rather than oblong/slit shape. The lips are thicker and more everted. King Juba II's antecedents thus seem the type of black autochthonous to littoral North Africa.
Lol wtf are you talking about ? Here Juba 2 :
the first time I saw his bust I immediately knew he was berber he looks really moroccan to me
Blacks darker than the Afers abounded in N Afr south of the Tunisian/Algerian chotts, i.e.; 34 degrees north.
Black does not mean negro. Black does not mean sub-Saharan.
African history don't begin nor end with genetics,
quote:Morocco's Haratin in the zouth will say they're autochthone, that they aren't recently arrived "black West Africans" and the "whites" they welcomed as new neighbors took over.
North Africa had its own local pops who, wherever their sources were, these local pre-Saharans and North Saharans [didn't look like and] were neither our • Savannah West Africans • Gulf of Guinea West Africans • South Central Africans • Lower, Middle, or Upper clear to Great Lakes/ Mountains of the Moon (Ruzenwori) Nile Africans • Mediterranean coast Africans.
quote:Originally posted by Ase: race is a social construct, not a rational and genetically sound construct.
quote:Originally posted by Ase: When you say "half black" you're likely trying to drag genotypes back into the discussion to bring pseudoscience back into the conversation.
genotypes are a rational and genetically sound analysis so why would bringing up genotypes be pseudoscience?
quote:Originally posted by Ase: . Blacks with so-called "Caucasoid" features are still labeled black socially.
so such a construct would be pseudoscience as compared to genetics, correct?
quote:Originally posted by Ase: A black person either has a black phenotype or doesn't
"black" is the social construct, correct?
and "white" and "yellow" etc
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Originally posted by Ase: A black person either has a black phenotype or doesn't, Nassbean. Blacks with so-called "Caucasoid" features are still labeled black socially. And that's important because race is a social construct, not a rational and genetically sound construct. When you say "half black" you're likely trying to drag genotypes back into the discussion to bring psuedoscience back into the conversation.
You see ? That's exactly what I meant by "american identity concepts" no madam race is not a social construct in the old world someone like will smith or Barack obama won't be seen as "black" but as mixed because no one in SSA have their features. So stop bringing your american labels horners are different from west africans the same way a negrito from the andaman islands has nothing to do with you.
As a good friend told me : "They claim all of the various cultures of MENA (the middle east & north Africa), Babylon, moors, Phoenicians, Egyptians, etc... Funny how they dont care for zulu bantu or whatever else in sub saharan africa. All of this stems from the African American inferiority complex. Reality is there grandparents were slaves on plantations, so its very exciting for them to claim that they were actually royal kings and queens with awesome achievements. "
I couldn't have said it better. Africans who live with me in europe are not obsessed like you all on this site they respect us and we respect them and they are proud people attached to their heritage and culture.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
posted
You haven’t contradicted anything I posted! All you did was repost the same crap that was already addressed, multiple times! But like always with you people you ignored! I posted a dozen times that the Eurasians that migrated back to Africa 40,000 years ago did not have a predominant affect on North Africans because they were eventually absorbed by the prehistoric Africans that was already present in North Africa and the Afrasian speakers of Eastern Africa!
“Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct exodus from Africa into Europe believed to have appeared first in the Horn of Africa about 26,000 years ago and scattered to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afro-asiatic languages.”
“The highest genetic diversity of haplogroup E1b1b is noted in Northeast Africa region in Ethiopia and Somalia, which also have the monopoly of older and rarer sub-clades like M281, V6 or V92.”
Not only that, I also stated that these same Eurasians wouldn’t have looked like modern contemporary Middle Easterners (Eurasians) in the first place, but the Africans they intermixed with!
”The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants, although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa.”
Source: A Revised Root for the Human Y Chromosomal Phylogenetic Tree: The Origin of Patrilineal Diversity in Africa
“early West Asians resemble Africans.“
Source: (Hanihara T. Comparison of craniofacial features of major human groups. Am J Phys Anthropol. 1996 Mar;99(3):389-412.)
Prehistoric Eurasian
Natufian reconstruction
Egyptian depictions Eurasians of Antiquity
A stelle of a Canaanite mercenary drinking beer, while his son serves him and his wife looks on
Depiction of bound Libyan, Nubian, and Asiatic captives on King Tutankhamen’s footstool
A depiction of bound captive from Aegean isles or near the Eastern Mediterranean, from the same site
A depiction of a bound captive Peityu-shu, from Desert of the East, from the tomb of Senaa
You keep on spamming the same exact nonsensical bullshit we have already addressed, but you keep dismissing it because you are a sick deluded nationalistic Farq with a identity crisis! Your Geneticists that you keep praising as revealers of the truth don’t take into account what makes a North African a North African! For example, take a look at this image showing genetic results of the Egyptian population.
Note that you see the regional affiliations of the Egyptian population, with North African as a genetic category. The DNA of modern Egyptians is shown to be approximately 68% North African, 17% Arabian, 4% Jewish Diaspora (whatever that is), 3% Asia Minor, 3% Southern Europe, and 3% Eastern African, ironic. Now, you would think that these genetic results would show the Egyptian people’s regional affiliations and you wouldn’t be necessarily wrong. Egyptians are North Africans, but this is misleading as it doesn’t show what makes North Africans North African. It’s when you break down this category that you see what’s makes up the Egyptian population as shown here in the updated data of the Egyptian population!
Now, the results has changed. Replacing the “North African category and showing the results of Middle Easterner, as well as Sub Saharan African affiliations in modern Egyptians as much higher! The results shows that the Egyptians are approximately 65%, 18% Middle Easterner, and 14% Sub Saharan African. Although, “Mediterranean” is also difficult to grasp on, as much “North African”. But assuming that they must be focusing on the geographical region of Southern Europe (most of the Mediterranean), let’s just say this is an accurate prediction of contemporary Egyptians. Also, before you say something stupid, understand this! What this means is, the modern Egyptians as a group are not closely affiliated to their ancient counterparts (indigenous Africans) of 5,000 years ago. As the genetics prove, they are mostly the descendants of foreigners who emigrated to the country over thousands of years. It has nothing to do with their continuity with their ancestors, but a discontinuity with them! Your spams of Coastal North Africans and their DNA results as predominantly North African is all but useless, as some Geneticists don’t consider the North African population as something to be broken down. In part this has to do with the heterogeneous nature of North Africans. Thus, Geneticists are forced to consider the makeup of the North African population as you guess it, North African! The same thing can apply to any significant heterogeneous population, Middle Easterners for example. So far, all of your examples of “pure” and “indigenous” North Africans, only leads to questions about their actual genetic make up, because a category showing your 100% North African is not revealing any, but you already knew this. Also, regarding your insane spams, as I said before in my previous posts from months ago during our interactions, North Africa was heavily influenced by Mediterranean populations like the Greeks and Romans! Showing a image of a Goddess or art from aristocratic buildings with obviously Mediterranean influences (the art style is a great giveaway) is not showing what the common North African looked liked!
“To what extent Carthaginians employed Negro slaves is doubtful. Punic cemeteries have yielded numerous skulls of a negroid character, and there were some very dark-skinned Africans, perhaps negroes, in the Carthaginian army which invaded Sicily early in the fifth century B.C. Frontinus tells us that as prisoners they were paraded naked before the Greeks soldiery in order to bring the Carthaginians into contempt. On the other hand, as the Carthaginians customarily enslaved prisoners of war and the victims of their piracy, two sources of supply which they must have found very fruitful, they were far from being dependent on Africa for slave labour. It is unlikely that they hesitated to enslaved as many Berbers as they required, nor were so brutal a people likely to have drawn the line at doing the same to their own peasantry. The evidence of negro blood, is, however, significant and it seems probable that they imported slaves from the Fezzan. It was a likely source, for the Garamantes cannot have hunted the Troglodyte Ethiopians except to enslave them. The slave trade with the Fezzan may have been important to the Carthaginians, but there are no grounds for assuming that it was.”
Source: The golden trade of the Moors: West African kingdoms in the fourteenth century, By E. W. Bovill, Robin Hallet, pp. 21-22
“In the Punic burial grounds, negroid remains were not rare and there were black auxiliaries in the Carthaginian army who were certainly not Nilotics. Furthermore, if we are to believe Diodorus(XX, 57.5), a lieutenant of Agathocles in northern Tunisia at the close of the fourth century before our era overcame a people who skin was similar to the Ethiopian. There is much evidence of the presence of 'Ethiopians' on the southern borders of Africa Minor. Throughout the classical period, mention is also made of peoples belonging to intermediate races, the Melano-Getules, or Leuco-Ethiopians in particular in Ptolemy.”
Source: General History of Africa: Ancient civilizations of Africa By G. Mokhtar, Unesco. International Scientific Committee for the Drafting of a General History of Africa, p. 427
I won’t even addressed your other spams, like your Temehu Libyans, that was explained to you already!
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes I thought the Bio-Diversity talking point was that the Haratine were Natives of North Africa who were pushed south and marginalized as the Eurasians moved in...
Now they're recently arrived slaves to a North Africa completly void of anyone darker than an Octaroon...
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Get your propaganda straight
Helene Hagan high priestess of Amazighity says Haratin are Amazigh not Gnawa.
Where did all the Atlas, pre-Sahara, and Sahara blx of the Greco-Latin authors go?
quote:Blacks darker than the Afers abounded in N Afr south of the Tunisian/Algerian chotts.
Blacks darker than the Afers abounded in N Afr south of the Tunisian/Algerian chotts, i.e.; 34 degrees north.
Black does not mean negro. Black does not mean sub-Saharan.
African history don't begin nor end with genetics,
quote:Morocco's Haratin in the zouth will say they're autochthone, that they aren't recently arrived "black West Africans" and the "whites" they welcomed as new neighbors took over.
North Africa had its own local pops who, wherever their sources were, these local pre-Saharans and North Saharans [didn't look like and] were neither our • Savannah West Africans • Gulf of Guinea West Africans • South Central Africans • Lower, Middle, or Upper clear to Great Lakes/ Mountains of the Moon (Ruzenwori) Nile Africans • Mediterranean coast Africans.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Forget discussion, this isn't even a clean honest debate.
Nassbean lies saying this isn't Juba II, that the European produced museum video description is clueless From iirc Carthage [videorecording] : a journey back in time / Cromwell Productions, Ltd. ; producer, Lara Lowe ; directed by Bob Carruthers. The given juxtaposed qualities are what the ytes declare to distance themselves from North Africans. North Africans aren't recognized or treated as yte ppl in Europe. Only yte in textbooks not in day to day social life. Whether tawny or blacke or even whitt, Moors and moriscos (here meaning Maghrebis) are not yte by yte ppls standards. Hell there are plenty of Italians who don't consider themselves "whitebread" (white bred). They like coloring ppl by using foods, like "eggplant" for even the lightest of African black ppl.
That's why we despite the big wheel spinning waste of time involved in restoring lost mages and forgotten threads.
Not to try to sway irrational Northafrocentrics but to alert surfers/lurkers to omissions and denials of historic facts
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:Originally posted October 10, 2011 by alTakruri:
Juba II madness
_______ Juba II Numidian African ____________ Typical Euro-Roman
The Numidian differs from the European in all the stereotypical hair and facial features. The hair is thicker and "wilder." The eye is larger and rounder. The cheek bones are higher and more protruding. The nose is flatter and broader with nostrils tending to round/oval rather than oblong/slit shape. The lips are thicker and more everted. King Juba II's antecedents thus seem the type of black autochthonous to littoral North Africa.
quote:Yes I thought the Bio-Diversity talking point was that the Haratine were Natives of North Africa who were pushed south and marginalized as the Eurasians moved in...
Now they're recently arrived slaves to a North Africa completly void of anyone darker than an Octaroon...
I thought that was always the HBD claim.
17th painting depicting the ruler of the Hafsid dynasty King Mulay Ahmad of Tunisia 🇹🇳
17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Yes I thought the Bio-Diversity talking point was that the Haratine were Natives of North Africa who were pushed south and marginalized as the Eurasians moved in...
Now they're recently arrived slaves to a North Africa completly void of anyone darker than an Octaroon...
I thought that was always the HBD claim.
17th painting depicting the ruler of the Hafsid dynasty King Mulay Ahmad of Tunisia 🇹🇳
17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Moulay ahmed and moulay ismail were indeed biracial because it was common for berber men to mate with their black slaves their offsprings weren't seen as slave/foreigners because in our culture we follow the line of the father (just check the biography of moulay ismail his mother was a black slave).
That's why in the trans-saharan slave trade women were prefered instead of black men as you can read it here : https://imgur.com/Y0BbTo0
and that's why there is 21% of Moroccans belong to Sub Saharan maternal Haplogroups, in contrast 6% SSA paternal Haplogroups
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
quote:that's because you didn't read much about east africa's ancestry ...the east african component on her genetic test is almost half eurasian that's why most horners are craniometrically caucasoids.
“Mr. Baldwin draws a marked distinction between the modern Mahomedan Semitic population of Arabia and their great Cushite, Hamite or Ethiopian predecessors. The former, he says, “are comparatively modern in Arabia,” they have “appropriated the reputation of the old race,” and have unduly occupied the chief attention of modern scholars.”
Source: Traditions Superstitions and Folklore, Charles Hardwick , Manchester A. Ireland and Company
“The south Arabs represent a residue of Hamitic populations which at one time occupied the whole of Arabia.”
Source: Pre-historic nations or inquiries Concerning Some of the Great peoples and Civilizations of Antiquity
“Among these Negroid features which may be counted normal in Arabs are the full, rather everted lips, shortness and width of nose, certain blanks in the bearded areas of the face between the lower lip and chin and on the cheeks; large, luscious, gazelle-like eyes, a dark brown complexion, and a tendency for the hair to grow in ringlets. Often the features of the more Negroid Arabs are derivatives of Dravidian India rather than inheritances of Hamitic Africa. Although the Arab of today is sharply differentiated from the Negro of Africa, yet there must have been a time when both were represented by a single ancestral stock; in no other way can the prevalence of certain Negroid features be accounted for in the natives of Arabia.”
Source: Memoirs Arabs of Central Iraq; Their History, Ethnology and Physical C haracters, Anthropology Memoirs Volume 4
“We thus find it plausible that the people living in the Middle East today are not representative of the people who were living the Middle East 3,000 years ago. Indeed, even in historical times, there have been extensive population movements from and to the Middle East.”
Almost the best modern examples of what these Prehistoric Eurasians looked like.
These people have remained untouched on their island in the middle of the Red Sea, thus the reason why they are both phenotypically and genetically distinct.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Ismail loved him some African blk ppl He rounded every one n his dominion They became civil servants and corp of engineers par exellance throughout his realm Lighter ppl in Maroc knew to stay outta their way Treatment of Euro ytes in general could be so bad I won't relate it After Ismail passed away the "Mutes" determined who would be sultan.
quote:Yes I thought the Bio-Diversity talking point was that the Haratine were Natives of North Africa who were pushed south and marginalized as the Eurasians moved in...
Now they're recently arrived slaves to a North Africa completly void of anyone darker than an Octaroon...
I thought that was always the HBD claim.
17th painting depicting the ruler of the Hafsid dynasty King Mulay Ahmad of Tunisia 🇹🇳
17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Moulay ahmed and moulay ismail were indeed biracial because it was common for berber men to mate with their black slaves their offsprings weren't seen as slave/foreigners because in our culture we follow the line of the father (just check the biography of moulay ismail his mother was a black slave).
That's why in the trans-saharan slave trade women were prefered instead of black men as you can read it here : https://imgur.com/Y0BbTo0
and that's why there is 21% of Moroccans belong to Sub Saharan maternal Haplogroups, in contrast 6% SSA paternal Haplogroups
I should of known you were going to pull some shit like this. “White” to the Medieval inhabitants of the Maghreb did not mean a White hue!
“In any case, if he was “white” in the African sense that should not be confused with the modern Western one, and to say that only one scholar was black in reality has little resonance with comtemporary Western considerations of what a “black” complexion is.“
Berbers ("tawnie-moors")at a meet-up in southern Morocco in the Wadi Nun (Oued-Noun) region
Ironically these were Whites too!
Woodabe Fulani men looking not much different than the Tuareg in complexion and facial characteristics (derived from their ancient African ancestors) stand in front of other black Africans. Such people were designated "red" and "white" men in Africa, before such terms came to be confused with the usages of the same terms by European colonialists for themselves.
Also, quit avoiding the obvious! The Eurasian Slave Trade and the Trans Saharan Slave Trade both made their marked on North Africa, especially the Eurasian Slave Trade!
The translator of Leo Africanus Robert Brown mentioned - "The many European races, including the Vandals under Genseric, and the endless European slaves who, turning renegade, became absorbed into the population must have left their mark over the all the Barbary states” (Brown, 1896, p. 203).
Jacques Heers argues in "Les barbaresques" (2001, pg 227) at the time of Turkish rule in Algeria, 50% of the population in the capital was composed of European-Christian slaves (even Italian slaves by the seventeenth century). Saqalibas from the Balkans were also well represented. Besides, Arab excursions displaced many of the ancestral populations of the Maghreb between the 12th-15th centuries.
According to Robert Davis Tripoli, was “occasionally reportedly crowded with large numbers of Greek slaves." (Davis, 2003, Christtian Slaves Muslim Masters, White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800.p. 112)
"Based on Y chromosome and mtDNA studies, Berbers seem to have been issued from admixture of North African men and Iberian women, with a variable sub-Saharian female contribution (Cherni et al. 2009; Ennafaa et al. 2009; Frigi et al. 2010; Keita et al. 2010). Their characterization through the study of seven Alu polymorphisms, and thereby establishing their position with respect to other North African and European populations, offers new genetic data that contributes towards clarifying how the North Africa was populated within the framework of population movements in the Mediterranean area.”
"Taken together, results on Y chromosome, mtDNA and Alu Insertions in North Africa allow to propose a scenario for this region. The ancient sub-Saharan settlement would have been followed by admixture with Iberian populations. But, as the North African Y chromosome remained dominant in the region, we could argue that this admixture have been realized in one direction: North African men and Eurasian women, explaining the gene flow from Europe and high frequency of European types of mtDNA in North Africa as compared with Y chromosome. This situation would not be the result of drift toward Eurasian mtDNA. Our results on Alu insertions interestingly confirm that this gene flow happened several times probably always on the same direction. These matrimonial exchanges between North Africa and Europe should be considered in a context of patriarchal societies with men attached to territory and women from different regions including Europe. Hence, genetic diversity on one hand and relationship with Europe should have been due to women. This result supports the important role that migratory movements have played in North African populations, at least since the Neolithic period and suggests their diverse origins."
"Our analysis of modern North Africans shows that most populations emerged recently from admixture of Africans and Eurasians and therefore are ineffective in resolving questions about ancient human expansions.”
posted
Funny how these Medieval North Africans had no problem with black North Africans, to the point that they were even allowed to assume the throne, as representative of the people they served.
Sad how modern day Berbers try to pretend or present them as foreigners, something their forefathers never did.
Even odd how we have so many "Mixed" heads of state in North Africa, was'nt Al-Mansoor half Fula? But these Biodiversity google scholars are going to pretend that Ancient North Africa was void of such mixing or the possibility of some Ancient North African kings being dark skinned...lol
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: 17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Moulay ahmed and moulay ismail were indeed biracial because it was common for berber men to mate with their black slaves their offsprings weren't seen as slave/foreigners [/QB][/QUOTE]
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Ismail loved him some African blk ppl He rounded every one n his dominion They became civil servants and corp of engineers par exellance throughout his realm Lighter ppl in Maroc knew to stay outta their way Treatment of Euro ytes in general could be so bad I won't relate it After Ismail passed away the "Mutes" determined who would be sultan.
ES has camel loads of info on the Bukhari
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Yes your ironic img ppl are openly jibed "the white man of Africa" by other Sene-Congo Africans. Ancestral Hal Pulaaren and Kel Tamasheq/Tagelmust shared residence in Holocene southeast Algeria.
All Atlantic African speakers call Euros "red ears". This term for yte ppl excludes Maurs and coastal North Africans.
From the earliest writers, colour dichotomy was simplified to yte or blk by Beled es Sudane origins though * Blx (sharper facial featues) were noted in the north (Masmuda Imazighen) * Ytes (smoother facial features) were also in the south (Mali's Keita clan)
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith:
“In any case, if he was “white” in the African sense that should not be confused with the modern Western one, and to say that only one scholar was black in reality has little resonance with comtemporary Western considerations of what a “black” complexion is.“
Berbers ("tawnie-moors")at a meet-up in southern Morocco in the Wadi Nun (Oued-Noun) region
Ironically these were Whites too!
Woodabe Fulani men looking not much different than the Tuareg in complexion and facial characteristics (derived from their ancient African ancestors) stand in front of other black Africans. Such people were designated "red" and "white" men in Africa, before such terms came to be confused with the usages of the same terms by European colonialists for themselves.
Also, quit avoiding the obvious! The Eurasian Slave Trade and the Trans Saharan Slave Trade both made their marked on North Africa, especially the Eurasian Slave Trade!
"Based on Y chromosome and mtDNA studies, Berbers seem to have been issued from admixture of North African men and Iberian women, with a variable sub-Saharian female contribution (Cherni et al. 2009; Ennafaa et al. 2009; Frigi et al. 2010; Keita et al. 2010).
"Taken together, results on Y chromosome, mtDNA and Alu Insertions in North Africa allow to propose a scenario for this region.
But, as the North African Y chromosome remained dominant in the region, we could argue that this admixture have been realized in one direction: North African men and Eurasian women, explaining the gene flow from Europe and high frequency of European types of mtDNA in North Africa as compared with Y chromosome.
This situation would not be the result of drift toward Eurasian mtDNA. Our results on Alu insertions interestingly confirm that this gene flow happened several times probably always on the same direction. These matrimonial exchanges between North Africa and Europe should be considered in a context of patriarchal societies with men attached to territory and women from different regions including Europe.
Hence, genetic diversity on one hand and relationship with Europe should have been due to women. This result supports the important role that migratory movements have played in North African populations, at least since the Neolithic period and suggests their diverse origins."
"Our analysis of modern North Africans shows that most populations emerged recently from admixture of Africans and Eurasians and therefore are ineffective in resolving questions about ancient human expansions.”
posted
Source: The Illustrated London News, 15 June 1901, p 853 The Moorish Embassy {1901} For the first time since the reign of Charles II., a Moorish Embassy has waited upon the British Sovereign. The mission, which has been sent by the Sultan of Morocco to congratulate King Edward on his accession, arrived at Portsmouth on June 6.
17th painting depicting the ruler of the Hafsid dynasty King Mulay Ahmad of Tunisia 🇹🇳
17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Mulay Slimane or Suleiman (1766 – 28 November 1822) was the Sultan of Morocco from 1792 to 1822. Slimane was one of five sons of Mohammed III who fought a civil war for control of the kingdom. Slimane emerged victorious in 1795, and the country remained largely passive for the subsequent decades of his rule. He was a member of the Alaouite dynasty.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
I wonder which side of the bus Muhammad VI would sit on?
but lets pretend that there were no black Royals and Nobility until the 19th century, before that North Africa was void of people like Muhammad VI... Saying other wise is Afrocentrism and stealing peoples cultures
The Magical Barrier of SSA prevented blacks from living outside this magical land, Eurasians can inhabit the planet from Africa to Solutran North America, but a magical barrier kept them Blubbery lipped pitch black dumb negros in SSA until Massa Kaka-zoid came and started the slave trade...
Presenting counter evidence is saying "We Wuz Kangs" and stealing culture..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Source: The Illustrated London News, 15 June 1901, p 853 The Moorish Embassy {1901} For the first time since the reign of Charles II., a Moorish Embassy has waited upon the British Sovereign. The mission, which has been sent by the Sultan of Morocco to congratulate King Edward on his accession, arrived at Portsmouth on June 6.
17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Mulay Slimane or Suleiman (1766 – 28 November 1822) was the Sultan of Morocco from 1792 to 1822. Slimane was one of five sons of Mohammed III who fought a civil war for control of the kingdom. Slimane emerged victorious in 1795, and the country remained largely passive for the subsequent decades of his rule. He was a member of the Alaouite dynasty.
How many times should I post the genetic studies about the trans-saharan slave trade ?? And I will post again the link about the abid al bukhari this army was composed of 150 000 black slaves ...where do you think all those soldiers went after moulay ismail died ?
Also the mother of moulay ismail was a black slave. read ! : "Born in 1645 at Sijilmassa,[alN 1] Moulay Ismail ben Sharif was the son of Sharif ibn Ali, prince of Tafilalt and first sovereign of the Alaouite dynasty. His mother was a black slave .[L 1] " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Ibn_Sharif#cite_note-Audiffret_376-6
These are the berbers who aren't arabized and lived in isolated areas :
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Tamazight speakers also elevated Niger-Chad Africans to rulership. One Kel specifically chose such in generation after generation. Can't remember founding of a city or two was by an Amazigh or a Sudane blk.
I'm still searching Leo for the first denigration of blx in Tamazgha. I think Khaldun has something on that general assumption too.
I know an instance of Masmuda prejudice against I think it was an Nile Valley blk. Remember Butlan distinctly classified Masmuda Imazighen as blx.
Sheee, everbod wanna Fula squeeze! Will check into what just dropped.
Funny how these Medieval North Africans had no problem with black North Africans, to the point that they were even allowed to assume the throne, as representative of the people they served.
Sad how modern day Berbers try to pretend or present them as foreigners, something their forefathers never did.
Even odd how we have so many "Mixed" heads of state in North Africa, was'nt Al-Mansoor half Fula? But these Biodiversity google scholars are going to pretend that Ancient North Africa was void of such mixing or the possibility of some Ancient North African kings being dark skinned...lol
Moulay ahmed and moulay ismail were indeed biracial because it was common for berber men to mate with their black slaves their offsprings weren't seen as slave/foreigners
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
Ismail loved him some African blk ppl He rounded every one n his dominion They became civil servants and corp of engineers par exellance throughout his realm Lighter ppl in Maroc knew to stay outta their way Treatment of Euro ytes in general could be so bad I won't relate it After Ismail passed away the "Mutes" determined who would be sultan.
that's what french saw when they visited marrakech :
Jari you're extremely dishonest I posted busts,paintings,mosaics, dna studies of ancient north africans but you still deny it
I even posted the results of a haratin in comparison to modern north africans but you also avoided it
I shouldn't waste my time with dishonest people Now I will only answer people who want an honest debate.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Also the mother of moulay ismail was a black slave. read ! : "Born in 1645 at Sijilmassa,[alN 1] Moulay Ismail ben Sharif was the son of Sharif ibn Ali, prince of Tafilalt and first sovereign of the Alaouite dynasty. His mother was a black slave .[L 1] " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Ibn_Sharif#cite_note-Audiffret_376-6
Yet despite this and even according to Nassabean @ 12:26 today him and others like him were not seen as Foreigners but legitimate Berbers...
Now you and your biodiversity friends with your degree in googling, suddenly want to point out who is and isnt Amazigh, and when me or Al show you otherwise...its "Stealing your culture"...lmao
quote:where do you think all those soldiers went after moulay ismail died ?
Good question, probably the same place all those blacks in Carthagenian graves and armies, the Fezzan blacks and others who lived beyond the magical SSA barrier in ancient times went?
Funny how Baal has posted you that evidence like 4 or 5 times from academic schorlarly sources and you have yet to address it...weird huh
quote:These are the berbers who aren't arabized and lived in isolated areas :
We at least your acknowledging more darker Berbers as pristine...
More Amazigh...same skin and features as Nassa's examples..
Must be Heratin Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
Also, portraying Moriscos and European settlers is not helping your case. The Guanches for example are already known to have a heterogeneous background.
“New genetic (HLA) and linguistic data shown in the present paper, is supported by diverse early anthropological and “Guanches” mummies characters which confirm existence of at least two “Guanches” types and a correct interpretation of R1b Y chromosome high frequency in Atlantic Europe (Ireland, British Isles, North Spain,Basque Coast and Portugal), and also, is present in Canary Islands (13.3%). Present paper HLA genes partial data and presence of abundant old Iberian language scripts (which show an easy translation proposal by using Basque) in Fuerteventura and also in Lanzarote and El Hierro Islands suggest that a present day dogma of a hypothetically North African single origin should be changed. Both Atlantic/Europeans and North Africans define origin of Canary Islands first inhabitants.”
“Some six decades before Columbus set out for the new world, Pope Eugene IV condemned the enslavement of black natives from the Canary Islands. This 1435 papal command demanded the European slave-masters to release them within 15 days or face the weight of excommunication from the Church.”
“Juan de Bethencourt became the first European to settle in the Canary Islands and made slaves of several natives heralding the beginning of the black slave trade. At this time slavery had been practically eliminated in Europe, thanks to the influence of the Church. The Holy Roman Church later would not only condone and support slavery even of those baptized into the Roman Catholic Church but also would hold their own slaves. Europe, led by Spain, would begin over four centuries of slave trading that included some twenty million Africans alone, of which half died in transit. Jewish children deported from Portugal during the Inquisition settle Sao Tome e Principe, two islands 320 kilometers west of Gabon. It then became a transit point for the slave trade. Pope John Paul II (1978 - ) in 1992 deplored the Roman Catholic Church's condoning of that sad offense to human dignity.”
To summarize the Canary Islands, they were populated by two populations. The first occupants of the Canaries originated from mainland North Africa, while the second wave of migrants came from the Iberian Peninsula. Thus, the reason behind the genetic similarities between the deceased Canary Islanders and modern North Africans. The North African coast would be populated by a similar population that populated the Canaries! But don’t get hopes up this occurred mostly during late antiquity, Medieval period, and even the modern age(preferably the latter). The Iberian migrants of the Canaries wouldn’t even set foot on Islands, until the Maghrebi Settlers and this took place approximately 1,000 B.C.
Here’s an example of the heterogeneity of the Canary Islanders
An engraving of a Cutthroat man and woman from Bioko island (Fernando Po), Canary Islands, drawings by Captain Filmore, illustration by Charles Hamilton Smith from his Natural History of the Human Species, 1848
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Source: The Illustrated London News, 15 June 1901, p 853 The Moorish Embassy {1901} For the first time since the reign of Charles II., a Moorish Embassy has waited upon the British Sovereign. The mission, which has been sent by the Sultan of Morocco to congratulate King Edward on his accession, arrived at Portsmouth on June 6.
17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Mulay Slimane or Suleiman (1766 – 28 November 1822) was the Sultan of Morocco from 1792 to 1822. Slimane was one of five sons of Mohammed III who fought a civil war for control of the kingdom. Slimane emerged victorious in 1795, and the country remained largely passive for the subsequent decades of his rule. He was a member of the Alaouite dynasty.
How many times should I post the genetic studies about the trans-saharan slave trade ?? And I will post again the link about the abid al bukhari this army was composed of 150 000 black slaves ...where do you think all those soldiers went after moulay ismail died ?
Also the mother of moulay ismail was a black slave. read ! : "Born in 1645 at Sijilmassa,[alN 1] Moulay Ismail ben Sharif was the son of Sharif ibn Ali, prince of Tafilalt and first sovereign of the Alaouite dynasty. His mother was a black slave .[L 1] " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Ibn_Sharif#cite_note-Audiffret_376-6
These are the berbers who aren't arabized and lived in isolated areas :
Oh now, your using biracial Berbers! Smh!
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: Why do I even bother?
Do you think this portrays a White person?
“Juan de Bethencourt became the first European to settle in the Canary Islands and made slaves of several natives heralding the beginning of the black slave trade. At this time slavery had been practically eliminated in Europe, thanks to the influence of the Church. The Holy Roman Church later would not only condone and support slavery even of those baptized into the Roman Catholic Church but also would hold their own slaves. Europe, led by Spain, would begin over four centuries of slave trading that included some twenty million Africans alone, of which half died in transit. Jewish children deported from Portugal during the Inquisition settle Sao Tome e Principe, two islands 320 kilometers west of Gabon. It then became a transit point for the slave trade. Pope John Paul II (1978 - ) in 1992 deplored the Roman Catholic Church's condoning of that sad offense to human dignity.”
To summarize the Canary Islands, they were populated by two populations. The first occupants of the Canaries originated from mainland North Africa, while the second wave of migrants came from the Iberian Peninsula. Thus, the reason behind the genetic similarities between the deceased Canary Islanders and modern North Africans. The North African coast would be populated by a similar population that populated the Canaries! But don’t get hopes up this occurred mostly during late antiquity, Medieval period, and even the modern age(preferably the latter). The Iberian migrants of the Canaries wouldn’t even set foot on Islands, until the Maghrebi Settlers and this took place approximately 1,000 B.C.
Here’s an example of the heterogeneity of the Canary Islanders
An engraving of a Cutthroat man and woman from Bioko island (Fernando Po), Canary Islands, drawings by Captain Filmore, illustration by Charles Hamilton Smith from his Natural History of the Human Species, 1848
Lmao there is no Bioko island in north africa ...bioko island is in SSA XD
here how guanches were portrayed by iberian invaders :
Here genetic study proving that the indigenous population of the canary islands were similar to modern north africans :
" Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans"
"A principal component analysis (PCA) of the five samples with the highest autosomal genome coverage, performed using genome-wide autosomal SNPs overlapping with Human Origins (HO) data [19, 20], reveals close affinity to modern Northwest African populations such as Tunisians and Algerians, but with a tendency (especially for individuals from Gran Canaria) to occupy a space outside modern Northwest African variation, closer to Europeans (Figures 2 and S2). However, outgroup f3 statistics [19] suggest that the Guanches share more genetic drift with non-African test populations than with African test populations, including Northwest African populations of Berber origin (Data S1, sheet 2). "
"The Guanches’ Berber-like affinity is further supported by ADMIXTURE [29] analysis (Figures 3 and S3), where Guanches largely behave like modern Berbers across all values of K. At K = 10, a Northwest African-specific ancestry component makes up the greatest amount of autosomal ancestry in the Guanche and Berber populations in the HO dataset, such as the Mozabite and Saharawi. It is also ubiquitous across other Northwest African populations with Berber ancestry, such as Algerians and Tunisians, consistent with the PCA results."
" The results reveal that this individual likely was lactose intolerant and had brown eyes, dark hair, and light or medium skin color . These results are similar for the other individuals where SNP information is available, albeit with lower coverage, suggesting that—at least for this sample of Guanches—the dominating phenotype was lactose intolerant, dark hair, light or medium skin color, and brown eyes (Table S4) ."
Jari you're extremely dishonest I posted busts,paintings,mosaics, dna studies of ancient north africans but you still deny it
Denying what Nassa? Didnt I already admit and even post a comparison between the White Amazigh you posted and the Temahu on the walls of Km.t? I did that for at least two, and I admitted the women you posted non African ancestors were distant at best.
As a matter of fact, show one post where I denied any of the white Amazigh you posted as legit prestine Berbers....Calm down Mr. Toomy, no one isnt out to get you....there's no Afrocentric Langoliers here..
quote:I even posted the results of a haratin in comparison to modern north africans but you also avoided it
Mr. Toomy, I adressed you, or did you forget? I admitted that man had Africoid features which the Tunisian girl DOES NOT ...Unlike the Heratin she has straight hair, thin nose and thin lips. Also, didnt you say at 12:23 that in the past these Heratin decendants were not seen as foreigners...take your forefathers advice then...
quote:I shouldn't waste my time with dishonest people Now I will only answer people who want an honest debate.
Lol, Nassa honestly Ive been the nicest to you. Ive addressed every post made to me and been respectful to you and the people you are posting.
You're just Mr. Toomy, under pressure from fighting Afrocentrics that you can even think straight..lol
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Careful the original Sicut Dudum says nothing about black slaves
Dum Diversas concerns blacks and slavery
unfortunately sociopathic driven fast and furious directionless posting buries lotsa good stuff in this thread
no one will sift thru pgs of crap to get to the kernals of grain
posted
Yeah, I posted research stating Egyptian ancestry that is shared with SSA did not match Muslim trade routes, and yet you (Nassbean) still argued the slave trade accounts for the black phenotype. Assuming slavery to be the only way a black phenotype could be in North Africa when data says otherwise is not racist though . Study of crania has also found Ethiopian-like phenotypes among Ancient Southern Egyptians, but you chalk it up again to the slave trade. You say the Old World doesn't care about race but then try to argue blacks were only a small minority of people that have always been subjugated in North Africa, never in positions of authority or the creators of any civilization. You say this despite evidence of North Africans who built a nation and had a black phenotype. You even invented a fake race war with Nubians and Egyptians that never happened. You've been asked to prove it did and you still have not. Picture spamming North Africans that look like you does not prove black phenotypes aren't native to the region.
Who is being dishonest here? You've lied about the nature of your intentions several times. Someone whose just trying to defend their right to claim heritage and doesn't care about black phenotypes wouldn't behave in such a way.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
Jari you're extremely dishonest I posted busts,paintings,mosaics, dna studies of ancient north africans but you still deny it
Denying what Nassa? Didnt I already admit and even post a comparison between the White Amazigh you posted and the Temahu on the walls of Km.t? I did that for at least two, and I admitted the women you posted non African ancestors were distant at best.
As a matter of fact, show one post where I denied any of the white Amazigh you posted as legit prestine Berbers....Calm down Mr. Toomy, no one isnt out to get you....there's no Afrocentric Langoliers here..
quote:I even posted the results of a haratin in comparison to modern north africans but you also avoided it
Mr. Toomy, I adressed you, or did you forget? I admitted that man had Africoid features which the Tunisian girl DOES NOT ...Unlike the Heratin she has straight hair, thin nose and thin lips. Also, didnt you say at 12:23 that in the past these Heratin decendants were not seen as foreigners...take your forefathers advice then...
quote:I shouldn't waste my time with dishonest people Now I will only answer people who want an honest debate.
Lol, Nassa honestly Ive been the nicest to you. Ive addressed every post made to me and been respectful to you and the people you are posting.
You're just Mr. Toomy, under pressure from fighting Afrocentrics that you can even think straight..lol
You know, sooner or later he'll break down and scream "Negra, Negra!" Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
Denying what Nassa? Didnt I already admit and even post a comparison between the White Amazigh you posted and the Temahu on the walls of Km.t? I did that for at least two, and I admitted the women you posted non African ancestors were distant at best.[/QUOTE] Alright then what's your point ?
quote:Mr. Toomy, I adressed you, or did you forget? I admitted that man had Africoid features which the Tunisian girl DOES NOT ...Unlike the Heratin she has straight hair, thin nose and thin lips. Also, didnt you say at 12:23 that in the past these Heratin decendants were not seen as foreigners...take your forefathers advice then...
Yes the tunisian girl does not probably because she has more native/indigenous ancestry than the haratin I posted that's not difficult to understand and no I said that when berber men had children with a black slave their children were seen as berbers not black or slaves. Haratin are not all the product of a berber man and a black women they only mixed between them and sometimes some berber men took some haratin women...so yes some haratin are culturally seen as berber and I have no problem with this (especially that they have some of our dna) but my point was that from a genetic point of view haratin are mainly non-indigenous therefore "less berber" genetically than the white berbers.
quote:Lol, Nassa honestly Ive been the nicest to you. Ive addressed every post made to me and been respectful to you and the people you are posting.
You're just Mr. Toomy, under pressure from fighting Afrocentrics that you can even think straight..lol [/qb]
It's ok as long as you respect I'll respect you
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Description Bound slave girl Date Circa 1900 Source Delcampe, Verdeau, Liveauctioneers, eBay Author Lehnert & Landrock
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: key word : slave trade
that's what french saw when they visited marrakech :
quote:Originally posted by Ase: Yeah, I posted research stating Egyptian ancestry that is shared with SSA did not match Muslim trade routes, and yet you (Nassbean) still argued the slave trade accounts for the black phenotype. Assuming slavery to be the only way a black phenotype could be in North Africa when data says otherwise is not racist though . Study of crania has also found Ethiopian-like phenotypes among Ancient Southern Egyptians, but you chalk it up again to the slave trade. You say the Old World doesn't care about race but then try to argue blacks were only a small minority of people that have always been subjugated in North Africa, never in positions of authority or the creators of any civilization. You say this despite evidence of North Africans who built a nation and had a black phenotype. You even invented a fake race war with Nubians and Egyptians that never happened. You've been asked to prove it did and you still have not. Picture spamming North Africans that look like you does not prove black phenotypes aren't native to the region.
Who is being dishonest here? You've lied about the nature of your intentions several times. Someone whose just trying to defend their right to claim heritage and doesn't care about black phenotypes wouldn't behave in such a way.
You're indeed dishonest Ase it's obvious no matter the evidence I posted you never contradicted them with real data.
Anyway your sources are outdated and still do not contradict mine...all the study we have show that the trans-saharan slave trade impacted north africa but even without genetic knowledge history teaches us that millions of black were brought in North africa since the 7th century AD and in the case of morocco this slave trade is well attested. Slaves were the most needed ressources in north africa after gold and salt and you still try to say that it didn't affected north africa ...yeah sure it's like saying the millions of NEw world slaves didn't affected America lol But even if you still want to deny it there is the abid al bukhari the famous "black guard" an army composed of 150 000 black slaves created by Mulay Ismail (150 000 is more than the number of arabs and europeans who settled in Morocco btw) and these soldiers were not castrated and were married to black women and their children were later again used in the army where do you think these blacks went ??
As for Upper Egyptians again craniometric data gives no information about skin color or overall features I'm sure that even modern upper egyptians would plot close to ethiopians craniometrically.
I never said black weren't able to build a civilization : there were plenty of great civilization in SSA but in North africa they didn't create any civilization because since at least the neolithic this region was mainly inhabited by caucasoid and leucoderm berbers. Blacks appear sporadicaly in our history and most of the time it is history of slavery like for example the garamantes chasing and capturing troglodytes aethiopians or proto-berbers subjugating black people in the saharan oasis.
I have no hate towards black people and I've never implied that they weren't able to build civilization. But I surely hate people who distord history to fit their agendas ...we should seek objectivity not entering in ideological wars. Now I invite you to give your opinion about the ancient depictions I posted but also the comparison I made between the haratin's dna and white berbers and their dna.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
No circassian slaves were brought in North africa and slave men were not allowed to marry our women so they didn't mix with us. Also the barbary slave trade only lasted 3 centuries and most slaves were men not women. Moreover most of these slaves were redeemed by christian associations like "l'ordre de la sainte trinité" or "les mercédaires de Notre-Dame de la Merci" while the trans-sahran slave trade lasted 1300 years...
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic