As the oldest picture of Jesus that didn't have an equine head.
I'm thinking I have seen this before. Someone did unto Jesus what was done unto Egypt.
So I searched for the culprit and again familiar.
"In preparation for their installation in the art gallery’s Dura-Europos exhibit, the paintings were restored based on the photographs and drawings from the excavation.
“Normally, we would not perform such restoration of an ancient wall painting, but we decided it was necessary,” Brody said. “We didn’t try to make them look like new, but using the photographic documentation of the excavation, we tried as much as possible to make them look as they appeared in 1932 when they were discovered.”
quote: Yale Art Gallery painting might be oldest known image of the Virgin Mary 2016
Founded around 300 B.C., Dura-Europos (discovered in 1932, eastern Syria)
Following their discovery, conservators coated the wall paintings in polyvinyl acetate to prevent flaking. Considered a state-of-art technique at the time, the treatment proved to be unstable. In the 1970s, the paintings had deteriorated so much that they were transferred from their plaster backing to fiberglass.
In preparation for their installation in the art gallery’s Dura-Europos exhibit (2011), the paintings were restored based on the photographs and drawings from the excavation.
posted
Where are you getting 2011? The quote is "In preparation for their installation in the art gallery’s Dura-Europos exhibit, the paintings were restored based on the photographs and drawings from the excavation."
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Forty2Tribes: Where are you getting 2011? The quote is "In preparation for their installation in the art gallery’s Dura-Europos exhibit, the paintings were restored based on the photographs and drawings from the excavation."
Yale Art Gallery painting might be oldest known image of the Virgin Mary
In preparation for their installation in the art gallery’s Dura-Europos exhibit, the paintings were restored based on the photographs and drawings from the excavation.
Dura-Europos: Crossroads of Antiquity February 5, 2011–June 5, 2011 McMullen Museum of Art, Boston College, Chestnut Hill, Mass. September 22, 2011–January 8, 2012 Institute for the Study of the Ancient World, New York (NYU)
Featuring material from the Yale University Art Gallery’s collection
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posted
“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet who is supposed to have raised dead persons and to have cured all diseases. Both his nature and his form were human, for he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, that the spectators could take fright, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard. (*Halōsis, ii.174).”[4] ~Alfred C Haddon, History of Anthropology (London:Watts and Co.,1934) pg. 6.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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These have to be the worst 'restorations' ever. Besides the cracks the old pictures look much better and the argument that it needed to be restored to look like black and white photos from the 30s is sick. This is the 21st century. You could have done a digital restoration.
We will never know the original intent because the church colored some faces and didn't color others.
But one thing is for sure this will influence the layman. To the multitude this is a white wash and I'm done caring about splaining. I don't care about the 1930s B&W photos. Its all about results.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Forty2Tribes: Besides the cracks the old pictures look much better
The later photo I sourced was from someone who was on location at the gallery and took a picture, post restoration
I could not find a good source for that pre-restoration one that has those violet tones. So we can't assume that that photo is accurate. For instance I could take a picture of a faded wall painting into photoshop and enhance the contrast. That version would have darker lines and more definition. It might look better than the unmanipulated original photo and you might not be able to tell. Similarly the color could be made more saturated. A touch of that might be believable and make the photo look better, but it would be a photo edit. Or a photo could have been published in a book and there would be a factor of the printing quality. You can look at different books of famous paintings and the photo of the painting in each book might be slightly different. You could only tell the accuracy by standing in front of the painting. There is also the settings on the camera that effects the color. And there is also the lighting conditions when the photo was taken, the lighting might have been a bit dim, or it could be well lit.
Date and location, ca 232 AD, Syria
Estimated year range Jesus died 26 A.D. – 36 A.D. Judea Samaria
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posted
^^ What point are you making? They both look undoctored compared to this.
They do look different but unless there were multiple edits I would assume its photography filters and favor the older image. Based on Tineye the colorful images are older and the bright blue is there because its a part of a slide. http://slideplayer.com/slide/1423817/Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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On the above note the arches at the top of the picture. In the top photo the color is red. On the lower one golden brown. One of them is not the accurate color
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The blackamoor coat of arms text says "flags and weapons depot".
Jesus Christ 300 A.d.Anoint your home, prayer room, business office or place of worship with the earliest artistic image of Christ as he teaches the Apostles "Last Supper" as portrayed in this fresco from the Catacombs of Domitilla, Rome in 300 A.D.
Both I and J were used interchangeably by scribes to express the sound of both the vowel and the consonant. It wasn’t until 1524 when Gian Giorgio Trissino, an Italian Renaissance grammarian known as the father of the letter J, made a clear distinction between the two sounds. Trissino’s contribution is important because once he distinguished the soft J sound, as in “jam” (probably a loan sound), he was able to identify the Greek “Iesus” a translation of the Hebrew “Yeshua,” as the Modern English “Jesus.” Thus the current phoneme for J was born. It always goes back to Jesus.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Thx
As a toddler my son used to sway and chant Ah bee dee, ah bee dee, ah bee dee Well a little later he got a dr named very similar Now seeing that Coat of Arms w/a similar sound took me back then.
About the pristine Hebrew aspirated 'G' as in gem.
Great, another version of that same catacomb piece of so far incomparable resolution that to me looks in between the two old standbys 42T snagged from the archive. I think both were issued by the catacomb keepers themselves though now maybe missing from the official site.
@ theLioness Canya prep a bust img with the versions same size and in vertical alignment please. Paint and Photos and can't sharpen the bottom 'accurate' though washed out image based on Ish's fineartamerica hi-res snag.
But Getty says this is the actual tomb wall and sell it for $500.
Last Supper. Wall painting of the Last Supper at a catacomb at Rome, Italy. (Photo by: Carl Simon/United Archives/Universal Images Group via Getty Images)
Once there you can further zoom detail using your browser
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Why is Getty a joke? A priori prejudice or researched analysis? That's the one once on Domitilla official site. R u positing GettyImages lies and never sent a photographer to the place as credited?
The point for me isn't blackenized or whitenized but the mural for what it is and authenticity of two versions similar but differing in detail.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: That Getty one is a joke
.
Brushing aside both our assumptions here's the pedigree per GettyImages snapped in 1910 before any possible late 20th-21st century 'cleaning'/'restoration'.
DETAILS Restrictions: Contact your local office for all commercial or promotional uses. Credit: United Archives / Contributor Editorial #: 878261902 Collection: Universal Images Group Date created: 01 January, 1910 Licence type: Rights-managed Release info: Not released. More information Source: Universal Images Group Editorial Object name: 948_05_01740920 Max file size: 4961 x 2570 px (42.00 x 21.76 cm) - 300 dpi - 5 MB
I thought you were joking when you posted that
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Tukuler
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Immediately declaring Simon a joke proves a priori bias on your part before critical examination. You will not consider all angles before eliminating and concluding. Simon has produced 100s of fine works and the art world isn't laughing.
Why is it Simon's photo a joke At worst it's a reproduction only because of colorization It is not a facsimile painting like Davis but an actual photo.
Anyway
OK so all his work is hand colored glass slides even where not credited so, you're saying? None of it was autochrome?
Are all the color images from then colorized B&Ws like in the Grolier Society's Lands and Peoples: the world in color, and are not 'authentic'? Ah, on ES always something new (to me anyways).
quote:Hand-colouring photographs
Several different processes and materials were used for hand-colouring, and it provided studio employment for many miniature painters who had initially felt threatened by the appearance of the new medium. Even after the emergence of the first practical colour processes, hand-colouring continued to be popular since it was often a cheaper and simpler alternative. Some of the results were very crude, but in the right, skilled hands, effects of great subtlety and beauty could be achieved.
Even at its very best, however, hand-colouring remained an arbitrary and, ultimately, unsatisfactory means of recording colour which could not reproduce the colours of nature exactly. What was required was a photographic process that could record colours directly in just the same way that it was already capable of capturing light and shade.
. Reduce then to B&W and pre-colorized original lines of detail remain or were they emphasized in prep of color?
Please. No bother tell me they add-ons too???
Have another catacomb art of some kinda meal at table
Egypt, men in front of a coffee house, image date: circa 1910. Carl Simon _______________________________
^ this is hand colored. It looks like a believable photo apart from the color which looks like it is only painted in transparently over some areas but not others. Both of the Christ pictures, might originate from a similar quality photo but the Getty versions don't look right. The contrast is too high, the color is too saturated, especially that intense yellow and the heavy black outlines and in that yellow background you don't see any wall texture. These things are to the extent it makes it look like a book illustration. I doubt the original photo looked like these do. They may be reproductions from a book rather than the Carl Simon original. If that is the case books can vary greatly in printing quality. You can look at a painting of a Van Gogh in one book and then in a cheaper version the same painting looks terrible and the color is off. Begin by looking at other pictures of the catacomb to get a sense of how the colors should look
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Tukuler
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Yup
That's exactly the type 'world in color' photos in the Groliers.
Well one can only guess about the original B&W. I prefer not to invent things about it that though probable are not proven factual.
The world class United Archives Carl Simon photo collection on Europeana is no cheap quickie shop.
At present I rate "Simon's slide" a sub-facs repro.
Any background info on the fineartsamerica version?
not sure if this is the same company, Ontario because I saw a Bee Hive pub, Chicago for the Fine Art at bottom of page, email for inquiries
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Tukuler
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"Jesus Christ 300 A.D. is a painting by BeeHive Publishing which was uploaded on September 10th, 2012."
Beehive is a "sloppy scholar". No catalog data even hinted.
Doesn't mean the art itself is necessarily not authentic.
We'll get to the bottom of this soon enough.
This Simon-like one shows peeling in the arc above man 4th right from center. Need to track it down, it's not that Getty nor the Europeana Simon photograph.
BeeHive-like one has no hint of peeling there.
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EDIT Replying to next post below
Agreed the "brushwork" looks much more authentic whether actual Domitilla photo or artists interpretation.
Is this how the painting would have looked 2,300 years ago? I don't think so it's condition looks very aged In the full scene the color looks accurate and the lighting seems to be coming from a relatively low position. The figures are fairly well lit but above the arch there is some painted ornamentation that doesn't show here
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: This Fine Art version looks very authentic to me, a lot of texture, earthy muted color. It could be taken under dim lighting, not sure
The depiction of these Hebrews was published by BeeHive Publishing.
quote:Christ Teaching the Apostles 300 A.D.
Due to the illegal status of the early Christian Church and the secret life followers were forced to live, there is little significant Christian art from before the 4th century. Fortunately there are some sprinkled examples found in the subterranean cemeteries (catacombs) of Domitilla, Rome which provide us visual evidence of early Christian beliefs and also Jesus' original image. Among these are frescoes, which are wall paintings done on fresh plaster.
One common image is the final communion meal shared between Jesus and his disciples. Scenes of the Last Supper, often disguised or intentionally ambiguous, were experienced as anticipation of the glorious banquet that awaited true believers in the next life. A beardless Christ in a toga, is characteristic of its time and place in a Roman world.
For further validation of this piece of artwork visitwww.domitilla.info BeeHive Publishing joined Fine Art America on September 7th, 2012.
quote: You are about to visit the best preserved section in one of the two most extensive catacombs in Rome:
The catacombs of the Eternal City offer one of the most complete and eloquent pictures of the Christian community in Imperial Rome, and of Catholicism in the city between the 2nd and 9th centuries. Until the 2nd century, in fact, the early Christians didn’t have their own cemeteries but were buried alongside the pagans in communal burial grounds outside the city along the main consular roads. The Apostle Peter was buried on the Vatican hill and St. Paul along the road to Ostia.
From the end of the 2nd century on, burial space ground was getting hard to come by and so small underground tombs were dug. These were often connected by short tunnels and were called hypogeums. It was a practice widely used by the Christians insofar as it allowed them to create several tombs in a confined space and at low cost. It also meant they could accommodate poorer members of the community either in private hypogeums or in Church-run cemeteries which had been donated by private citizens.
Such was the case with the catacombs you are visiting: we know from inscriptions that the land originally belonged to Flavia Domitilla. One such inscription bearing her name, can be seen on the righthand wall of the Basilica at the foot of the entrance stairway between the two sarcophagi. She was a noblewoman - the Emperor Vespasian was her grandfather and Domitian was her uncle. Her husband, Flavio Clemente, was a consul together with Domitian in 95 AD - but was condemned to death by the emperor that same year and Domitilla was exiled to the island of Ventotene.
They were accused of the crime of "atheism" - meaning they were probably both Christians. Their niece, whose name was also Flavia Domitilla was exiled to the island of Ponza for the same reason and by the 4th century her prison was a popular site of pilgrimage.
Private tombs multiplied in this area during the first half of the 3rd century AD and were linked by an extensive network of galleries. The complex of the catacombs of Domitilla began with seven early hypogeums which were carved out on two distinct levels and joined together during the first half of the 4th century. Galleries and tombs continued to be dug until the end of the 5th century with new stairways leading down into them from above.
[…]
CONCLUSION
The catacombs of Domitilla are extremely vast, about 17 kilometers long and extending to a depth of around 30 meters. Our visit dealt with just a portion of the second level with all its interesting artifacts. Although brief, our visit has given us a clear idea of how the early Christians dealt with death and with the burial of their deceased.
The word "cemetery" comes from Greek and means "place of rest" - especially for the early Christians as they await the Resurrection and their final salvation. This peaceful trust fills all the paintings and phrases carved upon the tombs that we find in the catacombs - and it’s the message that comes down to us through the centuries.
Jearld Frederick Moldenhauer – Photographer, Bookseller, Naturalist
(scroll down for image) ______________________________________
My guess is Beehive Publishing has this same photo of the tomb wall and they print it on canvas for anybody to buy We see the full scene with all the disciples I think the other one of just Jesus, the one also sold on Fine Art is clipped from the same photo and edited to remove some of the color to give it a more rustic mainly brown faded look
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Tukuler
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Says BeeHive was done by an artist, expected a photographer.
How you know it's Jesus and his Disciples?
Please analyse scene people and objects in comparison to the Last Supper table and the characteristics of the participants as in the canonical Gospels.
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Ruh-roh!
Nevermind, Ish tried n school me. I was in the frontdoor out the back playin hooky w/a school of fool fish and likin it.
quote: Scenes of the Last Supper, often disguised or intentionally ambiguous, were experienced as anticipation of the glorious banquet that awaited true believers in the next life. A beardless Christ in a toga, is characteristic of its time and place in a Roman world.
.
Betcha you'll never ever wever from now come No vember find this Jesus nowhere else
pass this buck all around the 'net
Full size zoomable link to this Carl Simon catacomb Last Supper or whatever the Latin says beyond agape/love.
I dare not post the Google translation of irene da calda agape miscem for fear of misinterpretation. It sure makes for some kind of disguising text.
quote: Scenes of the Last Supper, often disguised or intentionally ambiguous, were experienced as anticipation of the glorious banquet that awaited true believers in the next life. A beardless Christ in a toga, is characteristic of its time and place in a Roman world.
why were they disguised and how were they disguised?
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Ya gotsa do da math
Beardless Judeans plus they on the young side no cup or nothing on table
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote: Scenes of the Last Supper, often disguised or intentionally ambiguous, were experienced as anticipation of the glorious banquet that awaited true believers in the next life. A beardless Christ in a toga, is characteristic of its time and place in a Roman world.
why were they disguised and how were they disguised?
wiki: The conventional image of a fully bearded Jesus with long hair emerged around AD 300, but did not become established until the 6th century in Eastern Christianity, and much later in the West. It has always had the advantage of being easily recognizable, and distinguishing Jesus from other figures shown around him, which the use of a cruciform halo also achieves. Earlier images were much more varied.
wiki: The conventional image of a fully bearded Jesus with long hair emerged around AD 300, but did not become established until the 6th century in Eastern Christianity, and much later in the West. It has always had the advantage of being easily recognizable, and distinguishing Jesus from other figures shown around him, which the use of a cruciform halo also achieves. Earlier images were much more varied.
"Icons, that is images of holy persons, were an important part of the Byzantine Christian Church from the 3rd century CE onwards. Venerated in churches, public places, and private homes, they were often believed to have protective properties. The veneration of icons split the Church in the 8th and 9th century CE as two opposing camps developed - those for and those against their use in Christian worship - a situation which led to many icons being destroyed and the persecution of those who venerated them." https://www.ancient.eu/article/1161/byzantine-icons/
"Early Christian mosaics
Present-day insight into the crucial early phase of this part of the history of mosaic is limited because of the loss of nearly everything that was made in the field during the first half of the 4th century. Nevertheless, as indicated above, it seems certain that wall mosaics had come into use in Roman art well before Emperor Constantine’s edict of toleration of the Christian faith in 313 CE. Considered to be among the earliest Christian wall mosaics in Rome are those in the church of Santa Costanza built about 320–330 CE as a mausoleum for Constantine’s daughter. The content of the pictures is almost completely Dionysiac and pagan, but a series of small format scenes from the Old and New Testaments were included among the non-Christian pictorial elements of the decoration. Obviously an independent Christian pictorial program for buildings of Santa Costanza’s size and complexity had not yet been developed; and, probably in lieu of that, a Dionysiac program had been chosen because its many allusions to the symbolism of wine lent themselves to a Christian interpretation." britannica.comPosts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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