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I need advice...all honest opinions will be appreciated even if its not what I may want to hear. I am a canadian woman who recently travelled to cairo to marry my egyptian husband. These are the main details: Im 33 and he's 25 Im divorced with kids He's Muslim and Im christian He comes from a strong traditonal family He's University Educated and has a good job We met on the internet two years ago We married in Feb in Cairo We plan for him to come to Canada and we will live here
I would like to mention that my husband is a wonderful man who treats me with great respect, love and appreciation. He has never asked anything of me and in fact has give to me more then I believe I have given to him. We share everything together and are always together and there for each other. We have discussed everything from religion to kids and what kind of life we want to have. My time is Egypt was absolutly wonderful, and I look forward to going back. The one thing right now we have issues about is his family. His family is traditonal and of course want their son to stay in Egypt and marry a muslim egyptian woman and live in the family home. They are totaly against the idea of marrying a foreign woman...knowing that my husband said that its best if we dont tell them we will marry and wait until hes about to come to canada. At first I didnt feel so good about that but I didnt want my husband to tell them and then risk loosing his family while he is in Egypt alone with no one. Last week his family found our marriage papers....needless to say things are a mess. His poor mom is crying all day and night and his dad is so disappointed..Mom is not eating or sleeping....his siblings are very upset as well. They have given his a choice, to choose them or me. They refuse to listen and dont even want to knwo anything about me. My husband insists that he will not leave me or divorce me but still I have worry in my heart. His family of course are worried he will leave Egypt and never come back and he's trying to reassure them he will always be taking care of them. My husband loves his parents so much and did not ever want to disappoint them or go against them..he just wants life in a different way then what they had planned for him. Im in a diffcicult position...i love my husband so much and I dont want to loose him, at the same time I dont want him to loose his family or see him suffer...Im trying to not put any pressure on him and be his safe place but sometimes my emotions take over. Im trying to not take anything his family does or says personally, i realize they dont know me and they have set ideas in their minds that will not be easy to change. Im in a really difficult place...any advice or experiences to share would be most appreciated.. God Bless
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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How should you describe your place in the family untill the moment they discovered you were married to their son? I'm asking this, because your story sounds like you were in close contact with them. Did they like you? Did they treat you well? And how are they treating you now?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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thank you for taking time to read and answer.. prior to our marriage they were aware of me and that my husband was talking to me...he tried to bring me into place a few times but they really didnt want to hear about me because I was in canada. Eventually they realized we were together talking a lot and they went as far as removing the computer from him..hes a grown man so this was difficult for me to understand. So he realized and me too that they were not going to give one inch consideration for me to be with their son. My husband told me that no matter what he would choose, if it wasnt what they want the reaction would be the same. So not being with me would not solve this problem and it would come up again with whatever else in life because he does not want this life they have planned for him. At this point the family is questioning his friends and trying to locate his passport and papers. They think I will take his money and keep kids from him or my family will kill him here ??? Its all really irrational, well in my opinion but i guess there is much i dont understand. He told them that im learning about Islam and will convert and they told him that her islam is not good. They dont know me at all, or my family and refuse to even give me any space to prove myself. Im a good woman who really only wants good for them and I want to care for them. My family know my husband, talk to him and love him. How do you deal with such a situation ?
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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I think you are in a difficult situation as your husband obviously knew that his family were going to react the way they have, hence the reason he never told them. I do know of one couple where the husband didn't tell his family that he married and that he had moved here but I guess they were not particularly close. I can only see a waiting game for you as his family will put alot of pressure on him to rethink his decision. I can only wish that things will work out for you and his parents will come round.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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This is not a good start to married life.He should of told his parents that he was getting married.Maybe this is the reason why they are so upset and probably shocked too.
A hidden marriage will be hard to accept because the trust will be lost forever.
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thank you I agree its not a good start... My husbands logic at the time was that he wanted to keep peace while he was still in Egypt. Then before leaving tell them... They are in shock and very upset with good reason. At this time they will not hear anything and want him to divorce me immediatly. Pressure on him is very high and as hard as it will be for me, im ready to accept whatever he chooses to do. I should have made him tell the family as my instincts were telling me at the time. In his defense, they will never accept anything he does unless its the life they have intended for him so it makes telling them anything very very difficult..there is no space with them for discussion. Let it be too God, he knows whats best. I appreciate ure honesty, my mind is so mixed up and I cant see clearly right now.
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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I think its better for his family to know about your marriage now rather than later. I cannot advise you what to do but good luck and i hope it all works out.
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yes I think it better they know now as well, so whatever happens will come to surface now rather then after he's here and things have advanced...i guess all happens for a reason. TY for the support and I pray all falls into place with time.
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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Hello OP what did you expect?? He betrayed his parents tremendously.
Now you can only hope that they will come around eventually and give you the chance to meet them and take it from there. Maybe they just need some time to get over the initial shock and at one point can embrace you and the marriage.
"He told them that im learning about Islam and will convert and they told him that her islam is not good."
Wth did they ever hear about tolerance?? I mean showing tolerance to another religion?? Why would you have to convert to love and take care of him in the first place?? And why is practiced Islam by a convert much less worth???
Btw he the only son of the parents??
"At this point the family is questioning his friends and trying to locate his passport and papers."
Make sure he hides these better than the marriage certificate.
Good luck and update us on your situation if you like.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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From one side there is a family, expecting that their son will do what they want, on the other side there is a son, having no plans at all to obey his family. He obviously has known right from the beginning of this online relationship that his family wouldn't agree with it. Perhaps they even have good reasons for this attitude. He could have been promised into another marriage, he could have been involved in unwished relationships with women, or something else. As long as he doesn't tell you, you won't know, but there has to be a reason for all this. A family does not stop their son in development with no reason. Every family wants their son to marry, have children and live in harmony. Something must has happened...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Learningarabic, I’ve known a couple that married against his parents will and this caused a big fight and full isolation from the family. But the man was strong in his feelings and determination, the couple survived, and the family came around eventually. This took years for them.
You should keep your marriage, support your man and hope.
In your story, I really do not like the part that he, to reassure his family, is promising that you will convert to Islam. It seems that you will be forces to do it to please them. Embracing Islam is a very important step that will change many of your habits and should be done not under pressure but because you truly believe. Otherwise you may regret it to the rest of your life.
Posts: 132 | From: Alex | Registered: Oct 2009
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Take away the religious/cultural stuff, look at this situation from your own cultural and ethical standpoint and face it.... this family are behaving like manipulative jerks. Middle aged parents creeping around weeping and wailing don't really elicit a lot of sympathy from me. You're not a lap dancer are you? They have no right to judge you. Your husband deserves a bit of respect in his choices, and in the 21st century people have no right to breed children as a long term pension plan. Don't let this depress you too much, these are supposed to be happy days for you both. So many women come here to marry and seem to end up sacrificing far too much. Vive le difference.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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uni educated young man from a family that, from thier point of view, have put him through uni to secure THEIR future, not his. Family plays a HUGE part in this culture and from the sounds of this family they plan their kids futures for them, even down to they will probably have an Egy wife lined up for him already!
one question I have, how and WHY has a young man like him even GOT a passport that they know about already? Has he been out of Egypt before to have needed one?
As for converting, PLEASE think VERY hard about this and do this for YOU, not for him or his family, it will never be acceptable from a family like this anyway, but do it because YOU believe it to be the truth and not because you think its the right thing to do for him. A Muslim IS allowed in Islam to marry a Christian, but this family sound very *cough* 'traditional'
Another thing i hate to have to ask, but have YOU witnessed any of this family reaction or is it all what you're being told from him?
Pray for some real clarity and listen to what the answer really IS, not what you want it to be.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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uni educated young man from a family that, from thier point of view, have put him through uni to secure THEIR future, not his. Family plays a HUGE part in this culture and from the sounds of this family they plan their kids futures for them, even down to they will probably have an Egy wife lined up for him already!
one question I have, how and WHY has a young man like him even GOT a passport that they know about already? Has he been out of Egypt before to have needed one?
As for converting, PLEASE think VERY hard about this and do this for YOU, not for him or his family, it will never be acceptable from a family like this anyway, but do it because YOU believe it to be the truth and not because you think its the right thing to do for him. A Muslim IS allowed in Islam to marry a Christian, but this family sound very *cough* 'traditional'
Another thing i hate to have to ask, but have YOU witnessed any of this family reaction or is it all what you're being told from him?
Pray for some real clarity and listen to what the answer really IS, not what you want it to be. --------------------------------------------------Great advice! It also amazes me how quickly some western women give up their rights to men of different cultures and religions just to please them.
I do not blame the parents for being upset with him. He really should have told them of his intentions prior to making this commitment to you.
I really hope everything works out for you learningarabic. Stick in there and see how things develop.
Posts: 53 | From: What goes around, comes around | Registered: Mar 2009
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I appreciate all the comments so much, thank you. Tigerlily: I did expect this to happen, I was naive to think that even though they would be upset, i never thought they would try to force him to divorce me. As for Islam, im genuinely interested in learning and opening my heart. If I choose to convert it will be because I believe the Quran is the word of God and im ready to commit to Islam and its practices. My husbands family is convinced that any woman from the west is not to be trusted and will be unfaithful, lacks values and morals, will take his money etc...which is a very ignorant way of thinking, however, its what they think. He was trying to show them Im open and learning about Islam and I have good intentions and want all good and Im willing to learn and adapt to their beliefs and traditions. They are not going to change and I cant expect that from them, its me who will have to find ways to adapt to them. He is not the only son, he has a younger brother and two older sisters who are doctors. Nasto: Thank you for sharing this story, I appreciate the positive outcome. Your advice about Islam is very much taken to heart, you are right in what you tell me. I will not convert until its coming from me and my relationship with God. Mo Ning Min: His parents from our perspective maybe are not doing right, I agree with you..but remember they are doing what they know to do and what they sincerely feel is best. They come from a small village in which traditions are strong. lol and no, not lap dancer ! Their judging me is not right, but I also refuse to judge them. I feel myself becoming concerned about loosing myself in all of this..just how much do you give up or change in yourself to prove ureself to a family that wants you to vanish ?? I love my husband so much and really hope I can find a good balance in all of this. Ayisha: your right, a big part of this is they feel my husband is all they have. He already supports them in many ways and does this without a thought. I love this about him and I support him in caring for his family in every way. My husband tried to explain to them that it doesnt matter where he is, he will always continue to care for them and help them...they do not believe him. I will take all his money. He has never left the country, but has a passport for the past few years. It could have happened that he would have needed to travel work but it didnt end up being needed. To answer ure last question, until today I did not witness the reaction for myself, aside form my husband calling me in tears day after day for the past week. However, this morning I decided to call my brother in law ( his sisters husband ). BIL is well spoken in english and well respected in the family. I decided to call and try to reach out with my feelings and concerns for all of them. He was receptive and listened well to me. He told me the family is im shock and this "KIND" of marriage will not be accepted in this family. I went on to apologize for the way things have begun and tell him that im sincere in my love for my husband and I wish to do all I can for the family. I gave him my contact info if they have questions or need anything and he seemed pleased to receive this information. He told me he would talk to the parents and get back to me. I dont know if this will change anything but Im trying my best to reach out and show good intentions. Finally, the reason a few of the papers were found was because my husband was having translations made and he had them with him this day. The rest are in a safe place outside of the house and he will be sending them all to me this week, inshallah. I pray to find some balance, and peace in all of this. I really want everyone to be ok. My shoulders are heavy and I need to learn arabic ! God Bless you all
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by learningarabic: However, this morning I decided to call my brother in law ( his sisters husband ). BIL is well spoken in english and well respected in the family. I decided to call and try to reach out with my feelings and concerns for all of them. He was receptive and listened well to me. He told me the family is im shock and this "KIND" of marriage will not be accepted in this family. I went on to apologize for the way things have begun and tell him that im sincere in my love for my husband and I wish to do all I can for the family. I gave him my contact info if they have questions or need anything and he seemed pleased to receive this information. He told me he would talk to the parents and get back to me. I dont know if this will change anything but Im trying my best to reach out and show good intentions.
ooh dont expect a good reaction for doing this! you have contacted another man, a member of his family, behind his back........this is how it will be seen from their point of view.
this culture is different to any you have ever probably known in your life, this was with good intention from you but it will not be looked at like that from them. Things do NOT work the same here that they do in 'the west', be careful. Village mentality says you not even LOOK at a man never mind contact him. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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oh no, I really didnt think of that. My husband gave me his number in case of emergency because he's the only one who can speak english and understand me. I told him this is the reason Im calling him and not anyone else. I have told my husband now that I called and he was actually glad that I did, hoping it may help. I really hope they do not take this the wrong way... Village mentality ??? Can you give more details on this...I feel lost
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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If your husband's brother has told you this kind of marriage will not be accepted then I dont think you will ever be accepted into the family, as your husband has lied to his family and his family will blame you more than him. You have now involved his brother and if his brother trys to talk to the parents then that can only mean more troubles for your husband and his brother.
Your husband may telling you one thing, but telling his parents another thing.
I would not contact his brother and keep quiet!!
His family will never say anything nasty to you but if his brother has said this marriage is not accepted then it will cause a rift in the future.
Two things worry me about your post are that he had hidden the marriage papers outside the house and was not going to tell his parents he was married until he left egypt.This is worrying.
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My husbands family have very strong traditional ideas, they have his life planned for him..he is to marry and egyptian woman and live in their home with his wife and kids. There is not discussion about this, this is the way they feel it has to be. My husband does not want to live this way, with these traditions and this life style. However, at the same time he loves his parents and wants to be with them and do all he can for them. He tried to speak to them about me before we married and they refused to listen to anything he said. At this point he realized that they would never agree to the marriage. We then decided to go ahead with the marriage and tell them after...bad idea. His plan was to tell them before he left to come to here, knowing that life would be very hard for him if he told them right away. We put the papers in a place away from the house because we didnt want them to find this right now...I guess God has his own plan. I know this sounds really bad, but what was he to do ? They would have never agreed. I told him to do what he sees best for his family and i will not hold this against him. I dont want his family to suffer or for him to be wihtout them. He told me to divorce me is not the answer, as he will again in a short time be in the same place with them because he doesnt want life as they have intended for him..he does not want to stay in theis village. Your right, i dont know everyhting as Im not there. Im just going by what I do now and trying to see things clearly..its a very difficult position t be in...
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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My Egyptian Monster-In-Law hated me until the day she died. In fact, at this moment she's probably scowling at me from the pits of Hell. Why? Because I wasn't Egyptian and I wasn't Muslim. So, in that sense, I know what you're living, however our marriage was not a secret. Not that it was any easier, but I did have some support from his family.
Here's what we did. We agreed and accepted that it was HIS mother and HE would deal with her and that OUR marriage was OUR marriage and we would deal with it. We also never lost sight of our faith and our commitment to our marriage.
Where is he from? What is his education? What work does he do? Where is this English-speaking brother-in-law from?
By the way, do not call the brother-in-law again - unless someone is in the hospital in their big coma. It only serves to confirm what his family most assuredly believes: you're loose (we all are, just because we aren't Egyptian) because only loose women who will make sex with any man call/accept calls from men they aren't engaged/married to.
Besides, you don't know if this guy really is his brother-in-law or if he's a friend that's part of a big bullshi!t story, which is also a possibility.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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Thanks stayingput for ure post. Monster in law, I like that...u made me smile for the firs titme today. Same thing, im not egyptian or muslim...and im from the west and women from the west are without faith or values etc...this is really sad and ignorant point of view. I guess were guilty of this here too in regards to Islam and Arabic ppl..which is also ignorance. He's from the country area, two hours from cairo..i guess a small village. Right now I cant remember the name. He's university educated, an engineer and his brother in law is from this same village..also is educated and has a good job. He speaks english as a second language I guess. Im quite sure its his brother in law because he began to tell me some things about my husband past that i already knew..i dont think a friend would know of this. But anything is possible at this point..im not sure of anything. My husband has given me the numbers of most of his family members a while ago. He told me if anything to call this BIL cause he will understand me in regards to language. How long have you been married now ? Im very happy to hear that you were able to find a way to make things work with ure husband. I hope with the grace of God and a lot of patience we can find the same, but my doubts are increasing day by day. He assures me that he will never divorce me and this is not the answer, but really I dont know what to expect and I dont feel secure at all.
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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Generally, Egyptian women rely on men, first their fathers, then their sons, to support them from birth to death. No, this is not gold-digging and, no, this is not a matter of a man not being "man" enough to tell his female relatives they're on their own. Providing is an Egyptian male's manhood and, actually, kind of sexy (in my opinion). His mother has every right to be worried about her future because her sons ARE her future in terms of her security.
Your husband made his bed, now he has to lay in it. All you can do is be supportive. Whatever you do, do not say anything bad about his family, no matter how much you want to or how comfortable you feel discussing anything with your husband because he is his family, if that makes sense. Sit back, bite your tongue, and be supportive while he sorts this out.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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hi learningarabic just hope for the best and learning arabic would be very useful so that when the right time comes and they begin to accept u that time u wouldnt have difficulty communicating with them. Just be cool and let your husband fight for u.If he divorce u just for these nonsense well then he's a loser. But i think there's hope it isnt a hopeless situation. Good luck anyway....
-------------------- Why is my reflections someone I don't know? Posts: 25 | From: alex d' great | Registered: Apr 2008
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Why isn't anyone saying the obvious, his parents will be putting more pressure on him to marry an Egyptian girl. are you prepared to have a co-wife?
He will then come back to Egypt every year and impregnate her.
Once he has made his buck in your country he will then return.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Why is it every time a chick falls for an Egyptian it sounds like she's facing the perils of adapting to some tribe of savages living in a tropical jungle ?? you want your man then face whatever it takes. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Tks Ivory, I am learning arabic..im prepared to do all I can to make this situation better and easier for his family and myself.
Im my husbands family all have only one wife. My husband does not agree with having more then one wife and his mother and sisters would have never accepted this from thheir husbands. What they will force him to do is divorce me, and then have him marry an egyptian girl. At this point I can feel he is not strong enough to tell then that he will not divorce me and they keep asking him every single day. I feel he will give in to them in time because he will not loose his family. If this does happen then maybe its for the best and better now then later. I never want him to be without his family but right now I need him to tell them that he will not be able to do as they want and divorce me. I need him to honor me, im his wife regardless of how this situation began. I feel hes leading his parents to believe he might do as they ask and he's thinking about it !? Dzosser: Who's not facing here ?? I posted because I was trying to find some resources of information from others who may have had experiences...the truth is, as much as you think you understand, sometimes you dont. The facts is the way his family thinks is extremely different from what im used to..im not saying they are wrong, maybe they know better then anyone. Im trying to leanr and understand so i can face things in a good way.
Posts: 41 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2010
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by learningarabic:
I posted because I was trying to find some resources of information from others who may have had experiences...the truth is, as much as you think you understand, sometimes you dont.
There's nothing to understand.. the clan don't want their boy taken away from them..clear as a bell, if he's man enough to fight them for the sake of loving a foreign woman then you win, but beware of change of moods.
You have a long way to go lady, this isn't Canada the least..Are you willing to downgrade your living standard to a villager's life ? This is the question..bearing in mind that village boys are very tribal and will not compromise for love affairs, unless there's lots of money and a visa to the outer civilized world..stay warned. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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If his man enough he's not going to loose his family and he's going to keep you.Let ur man be a man,ur man needs to grow up.His family didn't see in him that he's going to make a stand in his marriage,that he would give in to their demands sooner or later.
Posts: 25 | From: alex d' great | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by akshar: Why isn't anyone saying the obvious, his parents will be putting more pressure on him to marry an Egyptian girl. are you prepared to have a co-wife?
He will then come back to Egypt every year and impregnate her.
Once he has made his buck in your country he will then return.
Also their son met an older divorcee foreign woman with 2 children over the internet... how proud do you want them to be tbh!!!!
While we all deem these to be perfectly normal and acceptable in the societies we have been brought up in can you imagine how a Muslim mother with a high religious and moral stance must be feeling.
She will want a DIL she can be proud of, a virgin bride willing to provide for her husband and work within the family unit.
Her son will move away and her dreams of seeing his children vanish also.
Selfish of the family, normal for an Egyptian family though.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by akshar: Why isn't anyone saying the obvious, his parents will be putting more pressure on him to marry an Egyptian girl. are you prepared to have a co-wife?
He will then come back to Egypt every year and impregnate her.
Once he has made his buck in your country he will then return.
Also their son met an older divorcee foreign woman with 2 children over the internet... how proud do you want them to be tbh!!!!
While we all deem these to be perfectly normal and acceptable in the societies we have been brought up in can you imagine how a Muslim mother with a high religious and moral stance must be feeling.
She will want a DIL she can be proud of, a virgin bride willing to provide for her husband and work within the family unit.
Her son will move away and her dreams of seeing his children vanish also.
Selfish of the family, normal for an Egyptian family though.
Actually speaking as a UK mother of a 22year old son I would pretty pissed as well, I just might not address the issue in the same OTT way as the Egyptian family.
The fact is this young Egyptian man wants out of his country, as sadly so many of them do, and he really doesn't care that much how he goes about it or hurts in the process. He knew full well his families reaction, his problem is just that he got caught. As the wife of such a man I would be asking myself if he can hurt his family like that what has he got lined up for me?
What really was his motive for hooking up with an older women with 2 children over the internet??
learningarabic you really need to be concentrating on your own life and family, why on earth bring all this crap into their lives. Even if you do bring him to your country, can you not see the drain this family will have on you financially & emotionally, you already have one family to support do you want to have to finance one in Egypt as well.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by learningarabic: Tks Ivory, I am learning arabic..im prepared to do all I can to make this situation better and easier for his family and myself.
Im my husbands family all have only one wife. My husband does not agree with having more then one wife and his mother and sisters would have never accepted this from thheir husbands. What they will force him to do is divorce me, and then have him marry an egyptian girl. At this point I can feel he is not strong enough to tell then that he will not divorce me and they keep asking him every single day.
How on earth would you know ANY of that, having never had a conversation with any of them? It's all hearsay from the man who lied to his entire family about being married.
Seriously, in what culture does a secret marriage NOT raise red flags? You're really determined to hang on to those rose-tinted glasses and see what you want to see. Everything else you attribute to cultural differences.
They took away his computer! Because he was flirting with a divorced woman with kids so he could leave his little village and make big money in the west! Hello? Have you ever considered they know their own child better than you (who have primarily an online relationship with him)? Perhaphs they're trying to control him because he's not acting in the way they have tried to raise him and he's not quite as pure as you make him out to be.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
If this is a real situation and not just typical ES flame bait, please consider that you really haven't got an accurate assessment of what his day to day life is like. FOr all you know he could be struggling with mental illness. Or.. that he has a wife and family already and the one he has lied to is YOU. The internet relationship tends to become a series of "dares". Where you want what you think you are feeling to be REAL so you start to behave as if there is in fact a relationship. You love a man who has never seen your children? Seriously? You love a man who is living in a village 2 hours from Cairo, in a situation where his parent's can "take away" his things as if he is a naughty 13 year old looking at boobies?
Quit trying to be a hero and figure this out. See this time as a "moment of clarity" given to you by God, and sit back and see what HE does. My advise.. DO NOTHING. When he gets all hepped up online about needing you to solve this.. and trust me.. money will help ease his "family pain" .. DO NOTHING. Nod sympathetically, make cooing noises, and then remind yourself that if he wants to pursue you, you are worth pursuing.
It's not like you depend on him to pay the morgage or take out the trash at night. He's a face on a screen and the truth is that you know very little about his day to day. Even if he was living in your house, you have no true read on how he will handle stressful situations, or what he really has in mind. Egyptians are very very very patient people, and manipulation and coersion are a part of the cultural social makeup. There could be a part of this that is simply he didn't think that you'd ACTUALLY follow thru on the flirtation, fly over there and marry him. As my X used to say, "I'm just a poor guy, from Giza what do you want from me?" Egyptian guys aren't raised with a romantic ideal and the answer, "I just want you to love me" isn't something they grip on. What do YOU want from this 25 year old kid from 1/2 way around the world? What do you think HE will be able to provide you?
This just sounds like shennanigans.
Posts: 1071 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
After all these years I have still never fathomed what attracts women to strangers online, let alone ones with little English! I am just old fashioned and believe in falling in love slowly after spending quality time with my significant other, going bowling or to the cinema... meeting the family, going to bbqs with his friends. I don't know how love can happen if you do not know how they could react in certain scenarios.. or how he speaks to your family or if he will kick the dog if he gets too friendly!!! How can you know someone really if all you do is type away or go on sleazy webcam. It would be like me falling for Dzosser if he complimented me once too many!!!!!!!!!
Real life!
Cosmo, yet again another great post btw... you are a voice of reason. Do nothing is the perfect way to see exactly what is going on here.
Sorry learningarabic... you seem to have stumbled upon some folk who really think this is just one big mess that you should walk away from before you are either used for a green card or taken for every dollar you have. BTW, when you tell a dude here you have no money it doesn't mean jackshit as no money here really is that, it doesn't mean assistance from the Government or social with a free education and a good chance of getting a job with a guaranteed minimum wage that will ensure you get fed!
And as Expatincai said as well in what culture does a secret marriage not raise red flags!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Oh booh they did a secret marriage? So what. They are not the first couple to do it on this world.
Yes it's a bad start but if they wouldn't gotten hitched secretly he would never have received the approval of his parents.
He is 25 and his parents don't allow him to use the internet????
If they could they would chain him up too lol.
For heaven's sake I'd try to get the f*ck away from my parents and that stupid little village where he's living in too!!
Is it wrong to want more out from life than what your family is trying to dictate you???????
Learningarabic, from all of us here on this forum only you know your husband, his character, his intentions etc. and time will tell if you both meant to be together or not.
I certainly keep my fingers and toes crossed that everything turns out to be good for you and your family. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: And as Expatincai said as well in what culture does a secret marriage not raise red flags!!!
For the sake of discussion, what exactly is a secret marriage? The basic requirement is two male witnesses which, in and of itself, is an announcement on the most basic level. Other than that, who else has to know?
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I would say an announcement on the basic level.
No way would I accept getting married and not allowing my or his family to be there.
I would demand a little more respect than that and I as a person would also respect others.
I would demand his parents knew about me and I would invite them through politeness... I would offer the choice for them to attend or not to attend and not selfishly remove that choose from them.
Again, call me old fashioned.
No one legally HAS to know but morally.... well if people cannot answer that then I fear for the fact they are bringing children up and teaching them their slack family values.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
The way you think the poor bloke would have to turn 60 to be able to get married to his foreign wife. In order to marry her he had to rebel and tie the knot with her secretly.
I think it takes a lot of courage to go against the traditions of his society. It could easily happen that his folks disown him etc. but I do hope they will come around eventually when he's settled in Canada, has a good-paying job and sends them monthly support.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
it does take a lot of courage. hiding your marriage from your entire family until you've secured a visa in hand to flee half way around a world is not courage. it's cowardise. it's immaturity. it's unable to deal with the world as an adult. it's running away.
and there's nothing romantic about it if you're running to a woman who's got two kids and needs a husband, a father, and a partner. instead of a 3rd, demanding child.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
The only appropriate response I have to ExPat is..
BOO YAH! On the money!
And really? You went all the way over to Egypt to get married without your kids and it didn't strike you as odd that NONE of his family showed up? That a "university educated" man is living with his parents and they are able to tell him how "forbidden" this all is? Methinks you've eated the cookie and are buying into the idea of a backassward nation of picture-book stereotypes.
Odds are this kid goes to the internet cafe when he wakes up at noon, and drinks tea and smokes endless cigarettes and hash while he and his "friends" troll for women online. There is indeed a legion of young men doing this as "business" and these guys are NOT fantasizing about the reality of Western culture and foreign brides. They are hustling to get from day to day and wind up with the most free toys, and internet trophies. I agree with the upthread post that the "Brother in Law" is probably a buddy of his.. and what you've done is a. given them quite a laugh, b. started his wheels turning about actually leaving Egypt one day, c. complicated his scenario by SHOWING UP!
Leave it alone for a while (as I said above) stay offline and off text for 4 days. Then after 4 days, pop in be very busy and ask how he is managing, and then NOTHING for another week. Same as you'd do if you were dating a man down the road. Or some stranger in Arizona you'd run off and wed.
If you are old enough to be a parent and responsible for children, then you are old enough to demand a man who has his **** together.
Posts: 1071 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Cosmo, give the woman a break!! They are married now.... end of the story.
I am sure she heard about bad stories of Egyptian men before. You don't have to rub it under her nose again.
And god only knows perhaps her husband has his sh#t together and will be a good and supportive man on her side for the rest of her life and will take on her kids as his own. We don't know him so IMHO why judging this person so harshly? He's not even online to defend himself.
And just because you picked up a bad apple it doesn't mean it's gonna happen to her.
I can only advise again to the OP not to convert to Islam for the sake of her husband and her in-laws. It should be your decision and yours alone. If it happens one day so be it and if not your husband has to be supportive and accept your choice.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: it does take a lot of courage. hiding your marriage from your entire family until you've secured a visa in hand to flee half way around a world is not courage. it's cowardise. it's immaturity. it's unable to deal with the world as an adult. it's running away.
and there's nothing romantic about it if you're running to a woman who's got two kids and needs a husband, a father, and a partner. instead of a 3rd, demanding child.
You gotta be kidding me. For how many years do you live in Egypt again??????
Low salaries/wages, unemployment, cost of living, cost of weddings etc. etc. I don't have to remind you what's life for most Egyptians.
You grew up in a Western society and were able to decide by yourself what to do with your life. Now it might seem longer ago but you can't deny you had that choice.
Her husband here doesn't. It's either sticking like almost everyone to the play and accepting fate or trying something new which likely could cost him relations with his own family. Hence people go on dangerous boat trips to reach the Western world for a better future and not few losing their lives in those attempts.
Let me ask you something:
- Would you be okay that your parents are always mind your business; infact you don't have one?
- Would you accept a man your family would have picked out for you - a guy you perhaps can't stand at all?
- Would you be okay with the fact not to be allowed to use the computer at home at the age of 25?
- Would you put your own needs behind and give up all your dreams just to please everyone around you but yourself?
Seriously you've been to harsh on that guy. They obviously love each other and planned their future. Show some respect for her husband. You talking about him like he's a complete sleazeball who's just taking this poor lady for a ride.
What do you want? That she divorces him right now and here because you believe he's not worth it????
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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And really? You went all the way over to Egypt to get married without your kids and it didn't strike you as odd that NONE of his family showed up? That a "university educated" man is living with his parents and they are able to tell him how "forbidden" this all is? Methinks you've eated the cookie and are buying into the idea of a backassward nation of picture-book stereotypes.
Odds are this kid goes to the internet cafe when he wakes up at noon, and drinks tea and smokes endless cigarettes and hash while he and his "friends" troll for women online. There is indeed a legion of young men doing this as "business" and these guys are NOT fantasizing about the reality of Western culture and foreign brides. They are hustling to get from day to day and wind up with the most free toys, and internet trophies. I agree with the upthread post that the "Brother in Law" is probably a buddy of his.. and what you've done is a. given them quite a laugh, b. started his wheels turning about actually leaving Egypt one day, c. complicated his scenario by SHOWING UP!
Learningarabic, you have a fantasy and in reality you cannot possibly know the first thing about this culture or how guys here are. Take notes from people here that do have more than an idea. Many have been where you are and many have been badly burnt. he wants out and you are only his ticket and gateway to the paved with gold west.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
The big glaring red flag I see waiving is the intention to tell his parents after securing the visa to Canada. What's up with that?
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
its 'paved' sono, and I can assure you the streets of Luxor are not 'paved' with anything
the way to understand the culture is to LIVE in it, its no good thinking you can learn the languages and dialects of the entire country when one end barely understand the other, and thats speaking the same language! I made many many visits before I moved here and I didnt know 1 tenth of what I know now and I am STILL learning. Living here and living with the culture is the only way to understand partly. You cannot learn anything from an online affair as you have nothing similar to base it on or use as a yardstick. the only chance you have to get even close to a little understanding it to see it through other eyes that DO live here and that HAVE experienced the men, the families and the culture.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Know the local language yet dispute a young dude calling you menopausal pmsl... ever socialised with someone with an IQ more than a frog?
PAVED
LIVE HERE is the only way to understand life here and granted life differs from one town to another... like it does GLOBALLY!!!! but still... as for learning the language!!! PLEASE! How the hell do I survive on my swear words and random words no one who 'studies' Arabic will know. It is so western here in comparison to other Arab countries. Even all the Billboards are in English ffs!
I never picked up a bad apple and even I can see this story stinks more than Cairo did yesterday (Fish for the stoopid)
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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