posted
Those African descendents who consider themselves negro have taken on an identity made for them by the Euro racists who invented physical anthropology. As if that weren't bad enough they seem to hate Africans who don't fit that mold.
Here on ES they don't know the difference between the phys anthro's True Negro and negroids.
Phys anthro took a list of extreme facial characteristics and invented the True Negro. Negroids, as breaking down the word plainly tells -- negro-like -- do not have the full blown set of negro traits. Talk of 'true negroids' reveals ignorance of anthro terms as no such appears in any anthro work. In fact Dixon notes negroids (a purely cranial type) in 20th century England.
People need to review Diop and JG Jackson on this true negro phenotype idea and why it is bankrupt.
Anthropologists have invented the ingenious, convenient, fictional notion of the "true Negro," which allows them to consider, if need be, all the real Negroes on earth as fake Negroes, more or less approaching a kind of Platonic archetype, without ever attaining it. Thus, African history is full of "Negroids," Hamites, semi-Hamites, Nilo-Hamitics, Ethiopoids, Sabaeans, even Caucasoids!
Even Ratzel, an 1800's Euro anthropologist questions the true negro concept as false
The name "Negro" originally embraces one of the most unmistakable conceptions of ethnology — the African with dark skill, so-nailed "woolly" hair, thick lips and nose; and it is one of the prodigious, nay amazing achievements of critical erudition to have latterly confined this (and that even in Africa, the genuine old Negro country) to a small district. For if with Waitz we assume that Gallas, Nubians, Hottentots, Kaffirs, the Congo races, and the Malagasies are none of them genuine Negroes, and if with Schweinforth we further exclude Shillooks and Bongos, we find that the continent of Africa is peopled throughout almost its whole circuit by races other than the genuine Negro, while in its interior, from the southern extremity to far beyond the equator it contains only light-colored South Africans, and the Bantu or Kaffir peoples.
posted
For the haters who can only imagine a certain type of Somali as representative of the whole Horn what about this Galla/Oromo chief who very closely resembles this sphinx of Amenemhet III.
Not to mention this girls is as much Horner as any Somali
Day by day more and more it is clear who are really the 'racist' on ES seeking to divide Africans with their buy-in to 19th century racial anthropology and its * true negroes * negroids * Hamitic hypothesis (distinct from the Hamitic myth) * Caucasian North&East Africa
especially when we consider Amenemhet's 12th Dynasty of ancient Egypt was a Galla, i.e. 'Horner,' dynasty founded by an old family family, the Uahka, who were immortalized by the Oromo in naming their deity Waka.
posted
A smiling Karrayyu man with his Gunfura traditional hairstyle and red headband at the Gada ceremony, Metehara, Ethiopia
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
Note that even as this retarded dumbo posts images of dark skinned Afar (which I have no idea why he starts spamming the thread), his underlying belief is that that more West/Central African ancestry is the cause behind why they are relatively darker skinned than their lighter skinned compatriots. His puny mind cannot conceive the idea that West African ancestry, or any other African ancestry for that matter, doesn't define African ancestry. Think of how mentally messed up someone has to be to not have grasped this concept after more than 2 years of exposure to it. There is no doubt in my mind that this mentally handicapped person thinks that he is quintessential African--the model upon which African should be based. Hence, his frequent use of phrases like "black Africans", "real Africans", and why he considers well-established scientific ideas like African substructure and diversity a threat to his self-serving ideology.
It's the same thing as what Anglo said when someone posted pictures of Omotics and he was adamant that they were Ethiopian Bantus. It's the same sick racist mindset.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
The dominant group among the black Africans whom comprised ancient Egypt, was our group (Niger-Congo speaking, M2 lineage carrying, so called "true negroid"). Nilotes and Horners were there obviously, but no African group is more represented than our own.
Sanakht
There really is no comparison as far as artwork is concerned. The wide nose, thick lipped Egyptians were the dominant group of ancient Egypt.
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
This file photo shows relatives and fellow journalists praying over the body of Somali journalist Mohamed Mohamud Timacade, on October 27, 2013, during his funeral after he succumbed to severe bullet injuries at a hospital in the capital, Mogadishu (AFP Photo/Mohamed Abdiwahab)
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
You see?
Even when you teach the ignorant that there's no such term 'true negroid' the unlearned persist in it's use.
Once again the term you racist blacks want to use is 'true negro' and when you use it you allign yourselves with generations of Euro slavers colonialists and imperialists haters of African peoples.
Disgusting how you side with white racist and hate your fellow Africans SMH
Negroid means having a subset of characteristics of a negro not each and every one of them
hence it's impossible to have any such thing as a 'true negroid'
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^ These ain't no damn Horners! They're us (our ancestors)! How in the **** am I insulting my own people by acknowledging our great history in the Nile Valley? You are just a double agent!
Why Sacred Egyptian Scarabs Bear the Faces of Black Men
Is this not common sense? Why in the **** does "Ultimate" keep posting pictures of random ass Muslim Horners for? What pharaohic Dynasty in ancient Egypt or Kush do their flat faces, thin noses and thin lips resemble? A few individuals maybe but what is clear by now is that it was the M2 lineage carrying, Niger-Congo speaking, so called "so true negroid" peoples who NOW live in Sub Saharan Africa (and their descendants in the Western Hemisphere) who were the dominant group of black Africans in ancient Egypt.
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
Leaders from the al-Itisaam Islamic Council speak to reporters at East Africa University in Garowe on February 19th. The leaders said they would engage the Somali ulama and citizens to stand united against violence and extremist ideology. [Hassan Muse Hussein/Sabahi]
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
Militant Somali Islamist leader Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys (C) attends the opening of a meeting of Somali opposition figures in a conference hall in Asmara September 6, 2007
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^Total nonsense Swenet.
Are those Somali people not too dark for you?
Are they not too dark for me? I have no idea why you started this random outburst of spam in response to the OP's comment towards you and your ilk and I have no idea what "Are those Somali people not too dark for you?" even means. And I'm not trying to be funny either. Have you ever thought of getting your head checked? Just a suggestion. It can't a sign of mental health to be repeatedly confronted with the deficits of your beliefs and your inability to defend them, yet somehow still come out thinking that you're right and that the people who are making you tap dance and bend over backwards to save face, are wrong.
Someone nukes the sh!t out of your claims with references from the literature and the only thing you have to say for your lying self is
"don't be ridiculous Swenet" "total nonsense Swenet" "Everyone knows you're a racist"
Even when you teach the ignorant that there's no such term 'true negroid' the unlearned persist in it's use.
Once again the term you racist blacks want to use is 'true negro' and when you use it you allign yourselves with generations of Euro slavers colonialists and imperialists haters of African peoples.
Disgusting how you side with white racist and hate your fellow Africans SMH
Negroid means having a subset of characteristics of a negro not each and every one of them
hence it's impossible to have any such thing as a 'true negroid'
Cosigned 100%.
It kind of reminds my on the Hutu-Tutsi war, which was imposed on them by outsiders as well (European colonialists). On how they were ethnically different.
Clearly these two posters have similar intent. While these two posters have little to no understanding on African ethnographics and climatological terrains.
The persistence of racial thinking and the myth of racial divergence, S. O. Y. Keita and Rick A. Kittles Article first published online: 7 JAN 2008
posted
Wide nostrils, and fat lips characterize the pharaohs of ancient Egypt. Sahure Amenemhet III Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
What's this...who is the better African?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bottom line: West and East Africans were one people WELL after the OOA migrations of non-Africans (as they share a common Y-DNA grandfather and mtDNA grandmothers for most of their genome not shared with OOA migrants- F and M/N descendants).
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Bottom line: West and East Africans were one people WELL after the OOA migrations of non-Africans (as they share a common Y-DNA grandfather and mtDNA grandmothers for most of their genome not shared with OOA migrants- F and M/N descendants).
Already thoroughly debunked here, here, here and here amongst other places (I've lost count) and you ran away from addressing the thrashing of your claims on all occasions, just like you ran away from addressing what the OP is telling you. Your response to said damning observations ? A barrage of picture spam. But being the known liar that you are, you act like nothing happened and continue to perpetuate your lies.
posted
You are one to talk about logical fallacies. There is not one you've left untouched. Picture spamming and making sh!t up is easy. Spamming Narmer everywhere and claiming that he and all other royals were "Negro" doesn't take away that the 1st dynasty royal family in its entirety have been shown by Keita to be highly heterogeneous, with approximately half having a cranio-facial phenotype that resembles modern day Maghrebis in many respects. Why not reply to the OP instead with literary sources and refute what it is saying, instead of spamming your fabricated crap every chance you get?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Double agent??? He! He! Ha!.
You show me yours and I show you mine.
Where do we go from there? "Caucasoids"..Negroids.
They are all African, none are Europeans.
I need a little more "stimulation" than a pic. I get a hard-on when I am intellectually challenged. Can you give me a hard-on?
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: What's this...who is the better African?
Are the logical fallacies the best you double agent mofos can do?
You gotta have balls and a dick first! You see what I'm saying in both threads so if you have a problem with what I'm asserting then you can easily reply back with your argument like y'all do everybody else(sock puppets).
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
Talk about needing balls first. The undescended shrivelled testicles you call balls apparently get you nowhere as you're still scared sh!tless to reply to Tukuler's OP post. We all know why:
^"Negroid" when applied to Sudan and Egypt does not equal "West African". When are you going to address this, without resorting to fallacies and picture spams, I mean.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: You are one to talk about logical fallacies. There is not one you've left untouched. Picture spamming and making sh!t up is easy. Spamming Narmer everywhere and claiming that he and all other royals were "Negro" doesn't take away that the 1st dynasty royal family in its entirety have been shown by Keita to be highly heterogeneous, with approximately half having a cranio-facial phenotype that resembles modern day Maghrebis in many respects. Why not reply to the OP instead with literary sources and refute what it is saying, instead of spamming your fabricated crap every chance you get?
Ok well then refute my argument or shut the **** up, because you're saying or refuting **** in any of your little sideways comments towards me!
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
Which arguments, lol. Your retarded picture spams? Do the folks in the backwater slum you're posting from even know what the word 'argument' means?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Talk about jeeding balls first. You're scared sh!tless to reply to Tukuler's OP post. We all know why:
^"Negroid" when applied to Sudan and Egypt does not equal "West African". When are you going to address this, without resorting to fallacies and picture spams, I mean.
Excuse me?
"In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. " -- T.W. Holiday 2013 ("Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample")
The Pleistocene Nubians from Jebel Sahaba (who are directly ancestral to Tasian and Badarians/Pre-Dynastic Egyptians) were according to three studies cited virtually identical to West Africans. Hence they belonged to the so called "true negroid" group of Africans whose distinct identity as a people you double agents are trying obscure (in the name of "unified Africanity"), because we are the basis of civilization not only in Africa but around the World (yes blasphemy is what your double agent ass will say that this is). Below are the distinct group of Africans that Western scholars once designated physically as "true Negroid". What else do we call their generalized and unique phenotype or these people in general in a collective fashion?
But anyways try again mothafucka!
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
quote:"In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. "
As do the Skull and Qafzeh populations and Archaic African humans--they both have a dental pattern which is close to the SSA dental pattern. Try again jackass.
quote:The results showing a close affinity between early Anatomically Modern Humans and Sub-Saharan Africans are consistent with the Recent African Origin model for modern human origins.
--Bailey 2000
And how exactly does it help your case that your own quote says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
deleted! Saw your post above. I will leave the citing of history books to others. That is not my strength.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Double agent??? He! He! Ha!.
You show me yours and I show you mine.
Where do we go from there? "Caucasoids"..Negroids.
They are all African, none are Europeans.
I need a little more "stimulation" than a pic. I get a hard-on when I am intellectually challenged. Can you give me a hard-on?
quote:Originally posted by Akachi:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: What's this...who is the better African?
Are the logical fallacies the best you double agent mofos can do?
You gotta have balls and a dick first! You see what I'm saying in both threads so if you have a problem with what I'm asserting then you can easily reply back with your argument like y'all do everybody else(sock puppets).
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:"In contrast, Irish and Turner (1990) and Irish (2000, 2005) noted that Pleistocene Nubians (in particular those of Jebel Sahaba skeletons) were as a group quite different from recent Nubians for dental discreet traits yet shared great phenetic affinity with recent West African populations. "
As do the Skull and Qafzeh populations and Archaic African humans--they both have a dental pattern which is close to the SSA dental pattern. Try again jackass.
Ok so they were from the same fucking group of black Africans too...You fuckin dummy!
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
So let me get you to say this on record. Archaic SSA who were not modern humans, and modern humans who lived 140-100kya ago were from the same group of black Africans as West Africans?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: So let me get you to say this on record. Archaic SSA who were not modern humans, and modern humans who lived 140-100kya ago were from the same group of black Africans as West Africans?
What the Hell are you talking about? What do archaic humans have to do with finding that Nubians from over 12,000 years ago were identical to modern West Africans and distinct from contemporary population in the Sudan? You don't have a point with this you're just trying obfuscate ****.
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
What they have to do with the matter at hand is that your claim of a supposedly special relationship between the Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans is not special at all, since the former and latter have that dental relationship with both archaic African populations and early modern humans who lived 140-100 kya.
So again, where is your evidence that Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans have an especially close relationship, not shared with other African samples?
And how exactly does it help your case that AE were "true negroids [sic]" (lol!), when your own citation says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
And when are you going to stop running away from the inconvenient fact laid out in the OP that "negroid" in relation to dynastic Sudan and Egypt does not equal West African, and that West African "negroid" doesn't equal Central African "negroid" either, as documented in Tukuler's OP and below?
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Wide nostrils, and fat lips characterize the pharaohs of ancient Egypt.
Sahure
^^^ get the name right, the Pharoah is Djoser not Sahure the nose is broken you can't tell anything There are thousands of sculptures where the noses are not broken when the nose is broken off a statue the nose that was there is imagined to have wide nostrils Nobody could believe your statement when picking up any book on Egyptian art. There are thousands of sculptures/reliefs/paintings depicting ancient Egyptians with thin noses and lips as well as many with thicker noses and lips-from all periods
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: Amenemhat III
^^ As with the sculpture of Djoser Amenemhat III's nose is broken here, you can't tell anything There are thousands of sculptures where the noses are not broken when the nose is broken off a statue the nose that was there is imagined to have wide nostrils
So if we look at another sculpture of Amenemhat III that doesn't have the nose borken off>>>
Amenemhet III, 12th Dynasty, Luxor Museum, Egypt
^^^ now if I remove the nose with photoshop (below) somebody could use this to say all the pharaohs of ancient Egypt had wide noses
posted
He doesn't want to get to the mummies. He knows that that is a whole nother can of worms he does not want to open. I repeat, he wants to avoid the mummies and royal skeletal remains AT ALL COST. Lol!
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: What they have to do with the matter at hand is that your claim of a supposedly special relationship between the Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans isnot special at all, since as the former and latter have that dental relationship with both archaic populations and early modern humans who lived 140- 100 kya.
Are you dumb? That is because they (Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans) were the same people, so logically wouldn't they have the same level affinities with their core ancestral African population?
This is the fact that negates your denying bullshit. The M2 lineage originated in the Sudan/Nubia.
Hell according to Christopher the Niger-Congo languages associated with M2 lineages spread into West Africa from the Sudan during the Nile Valley/Nubian Mesolithic period (around 12,000 B.C./ which is a false early date for this migration). That there is confirmation of the ancestral affinity between West African types and Pleistocene Nubians on entire new line of evidence. You wanted to shoot this affinity down through one line of evidence and a shitty misinterpretation of contextualized work.
quote:And how exactly does it help your case that your own quote says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
Interesting where does it say that at?
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: What they have to do with the matter at hand is that your claim of a supposedly special relationship between the Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans is not special at all, since the former and latter have that dental relationship with both archaic African populations and early modern humans who lived 140-100 kya.
So again, where is your evidence that Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans have an especially close relationship, not shared with other African samples?
And how exactly does it help your case that AE were "true negroids [sic]" (lol!), when your own citation says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
And when are you going to stop running away from the inconvenient fact laid out in the OP that "negroid" in relation to dynastic Sudan and Egypt does not equal West African, and that West African "negroid" doesn't equal Central African "negroid" either, as documented in Tukuler's OP and below?
I already responded to this **** in the other thread remember?
There is a contradiction here: all the anthropologists agree in stressing ; the sizable proportions of the Negroid element—almost a third and sometimes more—in the ethnic mixture of the ancient Egyptian population but nobody has yet defined what is meant by the term 'Negroid', nor has any explanation been proferred as to how this Negroid element, by mingling with a 'Mediterranean' component often present in smaller proportions, could be assimilated into a purely Caucasoid race." -- UNESCO 1981. The Peopling ancient Egypt..
The "Negroid" element of course represented these Africans whom African Americans descend from:
The other racial "elements" of ancient Egypt that UNESCO was hinting at was really just indigenous African diversity. Horners of course were present in ancient Egypt, and were deceptively characterized as "Mediterranean" or the "Brown race" in these early and deceptive analysis of human diversity.
Nilotes represented the so called "European" element found in ancient Egypt.
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why do you say 12,000 B.C. is an early date for the migration of future West Africans from Sudan (East Africa)?
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: What they have to do with the matter at hand is that your claim of a supposedly special relationship between the Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans isnot special at all, since as the former and latter have that dental relationship with both archaic populations and early modern humans who lived 140- 100 kya.
Are you dumb? That is because they (Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans) were the same people, so logically wouldn't they have the same level affinities with their core ancestral African population?
The onus is on you to build your flimsy case. What I've just did for you is I've schooled you where the dental evidence is concerned. Extensive dental analysis of African dental traits does not vindicate your claim that Jebel Sahabans and modern West Africans necessarily have an ancestor descendant relationship.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: [QB]
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: And how exactly does it help your case that your own quote says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
Interesting where does it say that at?
A better question to ask is where it DOESN'T say that because it's not a secret. Go read a book, boy. Bringing pictures to a debate is like brandishing a butter knife in a gunfight. You're way out of your league here. Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: He doesn't want to get to the mummies. He knows that that is a whole nother can of worms he does not want to open. I repeat, he wants to avoid the mummies and royal skeletal remains AT ALL COST. Lol!
All of the DNA from everyone of those shriveled, aged, fragile, half broken, and embalmed mummies have shown them to have closest affinities towards the E1b1a carriers of Sub Saharan Africa...
E1b1a is the common denominator is everyone of the main regional matches.
Speaking on the mummies tho: Thutmoses I
8 picture limit (tisk tisk)
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
I see you deliberately avoided posting pictures of the mummies of whom you claim that they have the "closest affinities towards the E1b1a carriers of Sub Saharan Africa". Is there any specific reason for this, other than the fact that blast your fairytales to smithereens?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:What I've just did for you is I've schooled you where the dental evidence is concerned.
How tf did you do that? You never responded to any of fucking points. This IS YOUR RESPONSE to my last post addressing the common sense issues that your double agent ASS is having with your so called "refutation".
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
You have four tasks ahead of you, boy (assuming listening to gangsta rap didn't inspire you to drop out of primary school before you were taught how to count).
1) So again, where is your evidence that Mesolithic Nubians and modern West Africans have an especially close relationship, not shared with other African samples?
2) And how exactly does it help your case that AE were "true negroids [sic]" (lol!), when your own citation says that Mesolithic Nubians and West Africans are distant from dynastic Egypto-Nubians?
3) And when are you going to stop running away from the inconvenient fact laid out in the OP that "negroid" in relation to dynastic Sudan and Egypt does not equal West African, and that West African "negroid" doesn't equal Central African "negroid" either, as documented in Tukuler's OP and elsewhere?
4) Instead of nitpicking mummies of pharoahs who, contrary to your self-defeating attempt to suggest otherwise, don't even match the true negro phenotype, post images of the pharaohs that were involved in DNA Tribes' analysis and demonstrate how they match the West African "negro" phenotype you claim they had:
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic