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And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith.
Why did you brother marry a Russian, why did your uncle (I think it is your uncle) married a western woman?
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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and it's not logic to order a woman to wear a veil or try to stop her from things while u r doing sins u should be a good person not doing haram or forbidden things then u can tell the others to not to do them it's not that he doesn't want her to do haram no it is that he s selfish he wants to do everything he wants and he wants the woman to be covered and that he is the only one who can see her if the man wants to advise he should be doing as he sees if he is not prayng and having fun with girls and do haram he can't give advises about haram, if i watch Yusuf estes talking about the veil and he is a very religious person i would accept it from him but not from a man enjoying his life and try to stop me saying he wants to protect me
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: and it's not logic to order a woman to wear a veil or try to stop her from things while u r doing sins u should be a good person not doing haram or forbidden things then u can tell the others to not to do them it's not that he doesn't want her to do haram no it is that he s selfish he wants to do everything he wants and he wants the woman to be covered and that he is the only one who can see her if the man wants to advise he should be doing as he sees if he is not prayng and having fun with girls and do haram he can't give advises about haram, if i watch Yusuf estes talking about the veil and he is a very religious person i would accept it from him but not from a man enjoying his life and try to stop me saying he wants to protect me
Well then maybe the man you're looking for is a religious one. There are plenty of them.
May I ask what kind of "class" you belong to, did you to to public or coed schools? Did you go to private or public universities? The kind of Egyptian men that you are looking for exist but you don't seem to be meeting any.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by $sonomod$: In order to verify the crap you've posted I would need to see the source myself
Of course I am not going to replt to you right now ,I gave the source to you ,it is yoor problem that you can not read arabic ,the Arabic source is on the internet but it is not translated
quote: you don't even give a title and author of the book.
this proves you did not read the post ,I gave the refernce and the Hadith number ,I get accustomed to talk with people with such a narrow mind who do not read anything .
quote: Claiming that Al-Azhar had affliates outside of Cairo isn't going to cut it.
it is your problem you do not know anything about the country you and all expats tries to insult every time you talk about it,simpply you do not know the country and you will not know it . it is the same with you you are the biggest liar in this forum because you said " let alone has taken 8 Eid-al Fitr pilgrimages" and pilgrimages is not in Eid Elifr it is in Zo Elhija not in any kind of eid nor it is in Eid al-Dha
so who is the liar?
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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حرام عليك يا عم أحمد...دانا حاجيت من خمس سنوات و طبعاَ كان عيد الأضحى و لازم يكون الوقوف بعرفة يوم الوقفة لامؤاخذة..عقبال حجك يا باشمهندس
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith.
Why did you brother marry a Russian, why did your uncle (I think it is your uncle) married a western woman?
Oh please! You are trying to tell us that a non practicing man is telling his woman to wear a veil to protect her and keep her pious??!!
He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM!
And pinkmoon is right, why should she, or other women listen to a hypocrite? Didn't God warn us about hypocrites?
Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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ahmad not to be rude but alot of egyptians are not experts and can never know all about egypt unless he has been to every city every mountain every farm in egypt...and know almost everyone and everything there is to know about egypt.. u can be taught everything someone knows about a country or person but unless u have been there its impossible to really know...i am so not defending sono.. its just my statement and opinion about knowing a country and or person.
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM! [/QB][/QUOTE]
I agree with u but also cos he wants to own her so she is his own property and that no one looks at her except him
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: Oh please! You are trying to tell us that a non practicing man is telling his woman to wear a veil to protect her and keep her pious??!!
He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM!
Sure this is what they do. Then they can brag to their buddies and their brothers about how well they keep their women in line.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith.
Why did you brother marry a Russian, why did your uncle (I think it is your uncle) married a western woman?
Oh please! You are trying to tell us that a non practicing man is telling his woman to wear a veil to protect her and keep her pious??!!
He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM!
And pinkmoon is right, why should she, or other women listen to a hypocrite? Didn't God warn us about hypocrites?
The problem is: They do. They know he is hypocrite and they know it's wrong, but they obey. Just like society expects them to do. And if she doesn't the familymembers will remind her that she has to...In fact they are keeping this practices alife...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Messenger quoted: He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. -------------------------------------------------
What and by wearing the veil protects her from these things
This thread is really interesting and welcome pinkmoon I do think however that you both have really clouded views on western men. They come in all sorts of sizes, in all manner of ways. Maybe the western man you have met Pinkmoon IS like you are describing but so is my husband who so happens to be Egyptian. Men are men all round the world. The thing i do agree with however is in Egypt 'most' people are sooooo concerned about how other people view them. What the neighbours will think, what the Aunts will think, what the man in the bread shop thinks it doesn't always be about what YOU think is right. Here (UK) in general (not all) people don't give a crap what the neighbour is wearing or what Uni she goes to.
I also disagree with the poster that said western men would consider women 'easy' if they had sex. This all depends on the situation. Of course girls who have many partners maybe considered as 'easy' but women who have had a 'few' partners and are in their 30's a majority of men would not class that as 'easy'. In Egypt if a woman in her 30's has had even 1 partner then she is considered as 'easy' by the men. Which is very sad when most of the men have had several partners by then.
Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: You are trying to tell us that a non practicing man is telling his woman to wear a veil to protect her and keep her pious??!!
He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM!
And pinkmoon is right, why should she, or other women listen to a hypocrite? Didn't God warn us about hypocrites? [/qb]
The problem is: They do. They know he is hypocrite and they know it's wrong, but they obey. Just like society expects them to do. And if she doesn't the familymembers will remind her that she has to...In fact they are keeping this practices alife... [/QB][/QUOTE] and when the family members forces the girl to do that that leads to many lies again and many girls wear the veil infron of their families and when they go out they remove it and put it on again before they go back home
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith.
Why did you brother marry a Russian, why did your uncle (I think it is your uncle) married a western woman?
Oh please! You are trying to tell us that a non practicing man is telling his woman to wear a veil to protect her and keep her pious??!!
He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM!
And pinkmoon is right, why should she, or other women listen to a hypocrite? Didn't God warn us about hypocrites?
The problem is: They do. They know he is hypocrite and they know it's wrong, but they obey. Just like society expects them to do. And if she doesn't the familymembers will remind her that she has to...In fact they are keeping this practices alife...
Just for the record only in attempt to make one thing clear,,Sure there could be lot of families and men demading the hijab from the woman,,but in return I'd like to say there are also loaaaaadsssssss of women who do wear it because they want to,,I mean not every woman's hijab or niqab have a man or a family behind it.
Posts: 712 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by happybunny: Messenger quoted: He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. -------------------------------------------------
What and by wearing the veil protects her from these things
This thread is really interesting and welcome pinkmoon I do think however that you both have really clouded views on western men. They come in all sorts of sizes, in all manner of ways. Maybe the western man you have met Pinkmoon IS like you are describing but so is my husband who so happens to be Egyptian. Men are men all round the world. The thing i do agree with however is in Egypt 'most' people are sooooo concerned about how other people view them. What the neighbours will think, what the Aunts will think, what the man in the bread shop thinks it doesn't always be about what YOU think is right. Here (UK) in general (not all) people don't give a crap what the neighbour is wearing or what Uni she goes to.
I also disagree with the poster that said western men would consider women 'easy' if they had sex. This all depends on the situation. Of course girls who have many partners maybe considered as 'easy' but women who have had a 'few' partners and are in their 30's a majority of men would not class that as 'easy'. In Egypt if a woman in her 30's has had even 1 partner then she is considered as 'easy' by the men. Which is very sad when most of the men have had several partners by then.
You really should pay more attention when you read, unless it's a comprehension issue you're having.
As to the last statement about "most men", that is completely false and has no basis in reality.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith. ---------------------------------------------
No Messenger - Pinkmoon asked "why do Egyptian men ask their wives to cover when they don't even pray themselves". You answered with the above quote. What i am asking is why? do you think that a man asking/telling his wife to cover will stop her from doing those things. No miscomprehension here maybe you didn't mean that when you posted it
Why is the last statment false? 'most' men in Egypt would want to marry a Virgin, when they themselves are not - right or wrong?
Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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what happybunny says leads me to ask these question: Why people in Egypt look at eachother and curious to know eachothers life and in the street u see men and women looking at eachother so much they even look at the shoes to see how it
looks i think they would like to know what colour the socks is if there is one, and why do i have to go to private places and beaches where people r not looking so much they still look but much more less and why people don't keep each others privacy? Why they talk bad too much about eachother forgetting that the worst thing God
described in the Quraan is talking about someone is like eating a flesh of a dead person means u r talking about him or her and he is dead means he is not present and can't defend him self? And before the revolution it was completely different, there was more respect and privacy,
Why all people talk about the veil and not talking about treatment and God said that the religion is the good treatment, why and why and why really many whys i feel sad and sorry when i see these things maybe as i mentioned before the revolution and the economic situation changed things upside down
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by happybunny: Of course girls who have many partners maybe considered as 'easy' but women who have had a 'few' partners and are in their 30's a majority of men would not class that as 'easy'.
I agree, I am just speaking generally about the double standards men have, lets say if a woman has had the same number of partners, or more than the man. And remember I am talking about those men with double standards, not the decent ones. Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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Right happy they all want to marry virgins and most of the Egyptian men aren't virgin and it's not men's right to be not virgins as the punishment for men and women who make sex without marriage is the same but they give themselves rights to do all forbidden things then they want a girl who is innocent and stopped her self from doing anything wrong and they want to be married with her that easily, for me it doesn't make sense, it's un logic and it's all traditions not religion cos the religion is fair and stop both not giving right to someone and taking it from the other
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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I agree Pinkmoon and it makes me sad too. Maybe that is why 'many' people are concerned with what other people think about them. Maybe they know that others talk bad about them and gossip. Who knows
I remember a time when my SIL did not want to cover and her husband insisted that she did - or HE would be punished Didn't matter that HE didn't pray and HE drank beer. I could not get my head around the fact that he said he felt fear of being punished because his wife was unveiled but didn't fear being punished by drinking and not praying Control Pinkmoon clear and simple. I hasten to add my SIL did not cover Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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Vesuvius the most decent Egyptian man has to be with a virgin innocent girl who never had relations never been touched even he did alot of sins or mistakes but he will not be the same with a western women and if u ask him he will say because this is how women r raised in the west but an Egyptian woman is raised in Egypt and if she had a lot of relations or she had a relation with someone and she is not virgin means she is not respectable and she is a B****
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by happybunny: Of course girls who have many partners maybe considered as 'easy' but women who have had a 'few' partners and are in their 30's a majority of men would not class that as 'easy'. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, I am just speaking generally about the double standards men have, lets say if a woman has had the same number of partners, or more than the man. And remember I am talking about those men with double standards, not the decent ones. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree Vesuvius but i try not to surround myself with men like that Intelligent, secure men would not think like that or at least not the men i know Great earlier post by the way Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by happybunny: No Messenger - Pinkmoon asked "why do Egyptian men ask their wives to cover when they don't even pray themselves". You answered with the above quote. What i am asking is why? do you think that a man asking/telling his wife to cover will stop her from doing those things. No miscomprehension here maybe you didn't mean that when you posted it
Read my post a few more times and let me know what you get.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: Right happy they all want to marry virgins and most of the Egyptian men aren't virgin and it's not men's right to be not virgins as the punishment for men and women who make sex without marriage is the same but they give themselves rights to do all forbidden things then they want a girl who is innocent and stopped her self from doing anything wrong and they want to be married with her that easily, for me it doesn't make sense, it's un logic and it's all traditions not religion cos the religion is fair and stop both not giving right to someone and taking it from the other
I will say it again, you seem to believe in religion and sins, if you do not want a sinful Egyptian man find a religious one who's as pure as you are. On the other hand if all you want is to be as sinful as they are, then forget about religion and just adopt western/secular life style.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith.
Why did you brother marry a Russian, why did your uncle (I think it is your uncle) married a western woman?
Oh please! You are trying to tell us that a non practicing man is telling his woman to wear a veil to protect her and keep her pious??!!
And pinkmoon is right, why should she, or other women listen to a hypocrite? Didn't God warn us about hypocrites?
Would a smoker prevent her/his children from smoking because it is bad for them? Or do they do it to look good?
quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: [QUOTE] He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM!
OK, that's just nonsensical. You projecting your own basis. How many men have you discussed this with and what do you base that nonsense on? Most men/women wish their loved ones to behave in an ideal way, even if they do not do it themselves. It is natural, mother do it, fathers do it, brothers do it........
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Funny enough i agree with you on this to a certain degree (where kids are involved) and of course we want them to do things that would not harm them but your wife is a person in her own right. I could not and would tell another adult how to behave.
Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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Messenger u mentioned before that egyptians have no time for honesty do they have time for looking and talking about eachother and respecting each others privacy?
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: Messenger u mentioned before that egyptians have no time for honesty do they have time for looking and talking about eachother and respecting each others privacy?
Please rephrase the question. I don't quite understand what you're asking.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by messenger: [QUOTE]Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith.
Why did you brother marry a Russian, why did your uncle (I think it is your uncle) married a western woman?
Oh please! You are trying to tell us that a non practicing man is telling his woman to wear a veil to protect her and keep her pious??!!
And pinkmoon is right, why should she, or other women listen to a hypocrite? Didn't God warn us about hypocrites?
Would a smoker prevent her/his children from smoking because it is bad for them? Or do they do it to look good?
quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius:
quote: He is telling her to do it because he knows how silly some people are in Egypt that they will look at him as a 'good man' (because some people in Egypt are under the impression its the mans duty to get his wife to wear a veil!), he couldn't care less what else she does behind closed doors, as long as she looks the part outside, this bit is just for show, and its all about HIM!
OK, that's just nonsensical. You projecting your own basis. How many men have you discussed this with and what do you base that nonsense on? Most men/women wish their loved ones to behave in an ideal way, even if they do not do it themselves. It is natural, mother do it, fathers do it, brothers do it........
About any other subject I might agree with you, but having walked down the street with my husband and have a man congratulate HIM on the fact I am wearing hijab, I think there is something to my argument.
If what you are saying is correct then the husband would be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, not wear hijab
Also, listen to a talk given by sheik Suhaib Webb, he describes getting into a taxi and asking the driver how he can get his son to stop eating sweets...the driver goes on to lecture the boy about it being bad for his health, while he is puffing on a cigarette!?
Even the taxi driver realised that he couldnt lecture a young boy on eating too many sweets being bad for his health if he himself is puffing away on a cigarette.
Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: If what you are saying is correct then the husband would be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, not wear hijab
The husband should be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, and wear Hijab if the believe in it.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: If what you are saying is correct then the husband would be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, not wear hijab
The husband should be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, and wear Hijab if the believe in it.
Of course, but the point is, what we were discussing is a man who wants his wife to wear hijab...there was no mention of the rest. And lets get real, if a man was drinking, smoking not praying and then going on at the woman to practice her religion...???? Do you think people should take him seriously?
Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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This what u said messenger (Well in Egypt honesty is not on top of our list. We have far more important things like surviving. When you are in our situation, come back and talk. I guarantee you with my life if any western country was to ever face what we are facing, you would each other alive). I say honesty should be on the top of our list because if it is the top then our lives will be better for sure, no doubts about that.
I am asking u again if honesty is not on the top of our list why looking at eachother and talking about eachother and not respecting each others privacy is one of the top things in our lists?!
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: If what you are saying is correct then the husband would be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, not wear hijab
The husband should be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, and wear Hijab if the believe in it.
Of course, but the point is, what we were discussing is a man who wants his wife to wear hijab...there was no mention of the rest.
You mentioned it I thought that was part of your argument, or did I misunderstand you?
quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: [QUOTE] And lets get real, if a man was drinking, smoking not praying and then going on at the woman to practice her religion...???? Do you think people should take him seriously?
No, the woman should find another husband. That was my advice to pinkmoon, she has to decide as to what she personally believes in before criticizing men. If she wants a pious man, she should look for a religious man and there are plenty. Is she wants western style freedom, then forget about religion and go wild with western(secular) men.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: This what u said messenger (Well in Egypt honesty is not on top of our list. We have far more important things like surviving. When you are in our situation, come back and talk. I guarantee you with my life if any western country was to ever face what we are facing, you would each other alive). I say honesty should be on the top of our list because if it is the top then our lives will be better for sure, no doubts about that.
I am asking u again if honesty is not on the top of our list why looking at eachother and talking about eachother and not respecting each others privacy is one of the top things in our lists?!
I see, that was sarcasm. She was comparing the moral values of finish people with the few gigolos or crooks she met in Egypt. That kind of statement does not deserve a serious answer.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
My argument was that IF the man was wanting her to wear hijab for her own piousness (as you described) he would not just request that, but would focus on other things... not purely hijab.
But I think you know that, and I think you know what I was saying Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Amr-: الايمان واخد حقة مين بيدي الحق لأي بني ادم بياكل ويشري ويعمل كمان زي الناس انة يكفر حد او يقول عنة مشرك الدين علاقة ما بين العبد وربة مش محتاجة بشر تحكم علي بشر
الانسان الي مستني فتوة انسان امكانيات عقلة محدودة القران والسنة ومخك بس المفروض
اخر حاجة معظم الناس بتحاول تربط عادات وتقليد ملهاش معني با الدين لمحاولت وجود مبرر ليها
أنا مكفرتش حد يا عم عمرو الست عيشة بتنكر السنة وا أكيد ان انت عارف ان كل المذاهب و كل العلماء كفروا أي حد بينكر السنه
القرآن و السنة مكملين لبعض ما ينفعش يكونوا متناقضين مع بعض,لأن لو القرآن و السنة متناقضين يبقى أكيد فى حاجة غلط
مش معقول ربنا هيقول فى القرآن للرجال لا تنكوا المشركات و بعد كدة الرسول ص يقول انكحوا المشركات
لكن المفتيين فى الدين هم اللى أتاحوا للرجال انهم ينكحوا المشركات لأن المفتيين رجال يريون أن يحللوا الحرام لنفسهم هم سوف يحملون ذنب كل الرجال اللى سمعوا كلامهم
Posts: 23 | From: alexandria | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: My argument was that IF the man was wanting her to wear hijab for her own piousness (as you described) he would not just request that, but would focus on other things... not purely hijab.
But I think you know that, and I think you know what I was saying
And my answer was:
quote:Originally posted by messenger: The husband should be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, and wear Hijab if the believe in it.
I have no reason to assume the men who ask their wives to wear Hijab are not asking them to do all those things too.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
and i say they r on the top of our lists because we see these things everyday in Egypt with friends and when we walk in the streets and atwork, just everywhere
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: And i am repeating my question : Why an Egyptian man asks his girl friend or fiancee or wife to put on the veil while he is not even praying and praying is the main thing in islam and the veil is an order but not one of the 5 main things?!
Becasue an Egyptpian man wants the best for his wife. He want her to be pious and protect her from sins. He doesn't pray, but he doesn't wish you harm. He doesn't pray but he doesn't want to see you using drugs, he deosn't pray but he doesn't want you getting drunk, he doesn't pray but he doesn't want you to steal. Do you get the point, the two are not mutually exclusive. He know he should be praying but that doesn't mean he's lost all his faith.
Why did you brother marry a Russian, why did your uncle (I think it is your uncle) married a western woman?
you are like most egyptian men are waisting your time in finding excuses for all the wrong things you do in life instead of trying to do the right things...
Posts: 23 | From: alexandria | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: My argument was that IF the man was wanting her to wear hijab for her own piousness (as you described) he would not just request that, but would focus on other things... not purely hijab.
But I think you know that, and I think you know what I was saying
And my answer was:
quote:Originally posted by messenger: The husband should be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, and wear Hijab if the believe in it.
I have no reason to assume the men who ask their wives to wear Hijab are not asking them to do all those things too.
ok, I'm not sure what your argument is since you agreed that such a man would be a hypocrite and a woman should divorce such a man and not take him seriously???
Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: My argument was that IF the man was wanting her to wear hijab for her own piousness (as you described) he would not just request that, but would focus on other things... not purely hijab.
But I think you know that, and I think you know what I was saying
And my answer was:
quote:Originally posted by messenger: The husband should be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, and wear Hijab if the believe in it.
I have no reason to assume the men who ask their wives to wear Hijab are not asking them to do all those things too.
the man should encourage his wife to do these things if he is doing them but not give themselves right to do mistkes and order there wives to wear the veil or other things. And even if he is doing these things he has to advise her only and she is free but not to force her
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Amr-: الايمان واخد حقة مين بيدي الحق لأي بني ادم بياكل ويشري ويعمل كمان زي الناس انة يكفر حد او يقول عنة مشرك الدين علاقة ما بين العبد وربة مش محتاجة بشر تحكم علي بشر
الانسان الي مستني فتوة انسان امكانيات عقلة محدودة القران والسنة ومخك بس المفروض
اخر حاجة معظم الناس بتحاول تربط عادات وتقليد ملهاش معني با الدين لمحاولت وجود مبرر ليها
أنا مكفرتش حد يا عم عمرو الست عيشة بتنكر السنة وا أكيد ان انت عارف ان كل المذاهب و كل العلماء كفروا أي حد بينكر السنه
القرآن و السنة مكملين لبعض ما ينفعش يكونوا متناقضين مع بعض,لأن لو القرآن و السنة متناقضين يبقى أكيد فى حاجة غلط
مش معقول ربنا هيقول فى القرآن للرجال لا تنكوا المشركات و بعد كدة الرسول ص يقول انكحوا المشركات
لكن المفتيين فى الدين هم اللى أتاحوا للرجال انهم ينكحوا المشركات لأن المفتيين رجال يريون أن يحللوا الحرام لنفسهم هم سوف يحملون ذنب كل الرجال اللى سمعوا كلامهم
I agree
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Vesuvius: My argument was that IF the man was wanting her to wear hijab for her own piousness (as you described) he would not just request that, but would focus on other things... not purely hijab.
But I think you know that, and I think you know what I was saying
And my answer was:
quote:Originally posted by messenger: The husband should be encouraging the wife to pray/fast/go on hajj, and wear Hijab if the believe in it.
I have no reason to assume the men who ask their wives to wear Hijab are not asking them to do all those things too.
ok, I'm not sure what your argument is since you agreed that such a man would be a hypocrite and a woman should divorce such a man and not take him seriously???
NO, did not say such thin. You are making way too many assumptions and not putting them in your posts.
- You are assuming that men who ask their wives to wear Hijab are not asking them to pray and fast, etc. I have no reason to assume that.
I am guessing that you are also assuming that the man who is asking his wife to wear Hijab is
"a man was drinking, smoking not praying and then going on at the woman to practice her religion...???? Do you think people should take him seriously?"
Again I have no reason to assume that. My reply that a woman should dump such a man and find another husband is to this specific scenario:
"a man was drinking, smoking not praying and then going on at the woman to practice her religion...???? Do you think people should take him seriously?"
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Well, when I said earlier that a man asking a woman to wear hijab while he himself is not practising, suggests to me that he is doing it for image only.
However, a man asking a woman to wear hijab, fast, pray, etc whilst he himself is not practicing his religion is either a: a hypocrite or b: very weak.
However, I still dont believe that he is doing it with her interest at heart.
Maybe my assumptions lead me to that conclusion, but in life, and in forum message boards with a few snippets of information assumptions are all we are left with to draw conclusions.
However, my sincere apologies to any men reading this post who may be encouraging their wives to wear hijab, fast, pray...whilst not doing anything yourself...so that she may reach a nice place in heaven. How thoughtful of you.
quote:Originally posted by Amr-: الايمان واخد حقة مين بيدي الحق لأي بني ادم بياكل ويشري ويعمل كمان زي الناس انة يكفر حد او يقول عنة مشرك الدين علاقة ما بين العبد وربة مش محتاجة بشر تحكم علي بشر
الانسان الي مستني فتوة انسان امكانيات عقلة محدودة القران والسنة ومخك بس المفروض
اخر حاجة معظم الناس بتحاول تربط عادات وتقليد ملهاش معني با الدين لمحاولت وجود مبرر ليها
أنا مكفرتش حد يا عم عمرو الست عيشة بتنكر السنة وا أكيد ان انت عارف ان كل المذاهب و كل العلماء كفروا أي حد بينكر السنه
القرآن و السنة مكملين لبعض ما ينفعش يكونوا متناقضين مع بعض,لأن لو القرآن و السنة متناقضين يبقى أكيد فى حاجة غلط
مش معقول ربنا هيقول فى القرآن للرجال لا تنكوا المشركات و بعد كدة الرسول ص يقول انكحوا المشركات
لكن المفتيين فى الدين هم اللى أتاحوا للرجال انهم ينكحوا المشركات لأن المفتيين رجال يريون أن يحللوا الحرام لنفسهم هم سوف يحملون ذنب كل الرجال اللى سمعوا كلامهم
معلش يا نيفا.ممكن توضح/توضحى لما قلت/ى المشركات،،كان القصد فى العموم ولا انت/ى شايف المسيحيات واليهوديات من ضمن المشركات؟
Posts: 712 | Registered: Sep 2006
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I do think however that you both have really clouded views on western men. They come in all sorts of sizes, in all manner of ways. Maybe the western man you have met Pinkmoon IS like you are describing but so is my husband who so happens to be Egyptian. Men are men all round the world. The thing i do agree with however is in Egypt 'most' people are sooooo concerned about how other people view them. What the neighbours will think, what the Aunts will think, what the man in the bread shop thinks ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Didn't matter that HE didn't pray and HE drank beer. I could not get my head around the fact that he said he felt fear of being punished because his wife was unveiled but didn't fear being punished by drinking and not praying ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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