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I didn't like to speak about Quran or Islam by now but it seems still some friends need to be aware about.
In the quran there are verses telling that its words are the inspired God's words like:
1) The Cattle chapter( Surat Al-An'am) 19:" this Quran has been revealed to me" 2) The Cave chapter (Surat Al-Kahf):" It has been inspired to me" 3) The Star chapter (Surat An-Najm) "it is only an Inspiration that is inspired."
1) Muhammad's words: The Islamic encyclopaedia, part, page 8166, 8167 under the title (Muhammad and the quran):
According to the Muslims Sunnah, there are quran verses telling that the words of the quran are the inspired God's words, where Al-mighty God is the speaker and Muhammad is the receiver, but there are other quran verses having another indications, In them it seems that Muhammad is the speaker:
As the darkening chapter (Surat At-Takwir) 15-21 and The Splitting chapter (Surat Al-Inshiqaaq) 16
There are other verses like:
1) The Cattle chapter (Surat Al-An'am) 104:"I am not a watcher over you"
2) The Cattle chapter (Surat Al-An'am) 114: "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah"
3) Hud chapter (Surat Hud) 2:" worship none but Allah. Verily, I am unto you from him a Warner and a bringer of glad tidings. Then I fear for you the torment of a Great Day"
4) The ants chapter (Surat An-Naml) 91:" I have been commanded only to worship the Lord of this city... And I am commanded to be from among the Muslims"
5) The ants chapter (Surat An-Naml) 92:" I have been commanded to recite the Quran"
6) Consultation Chapter (Surat Ash-Shura) 10:" Such is Allah, my Lord in whom I put my trust," So if they were God' words, he wouldn't say the verses as if he is the speaker, it is Muhammad who is speaking words of his own
Al-Tabry explained that saying, it seems that God is saying" O Muhammad say I am so and so" but that's irrational as how could anyone dare to insert words not actually present in th 5B4 e text into the verses, and what about those words inserted, do they exist in the preserved tablet before the beginning of time ?
2) The angels' words: There are other verses uttered by the angels as: 1) Mary chapter (Surat Maryam) 64:"And we (angels) descend not except by the Command of your Lord"
The annotators said: narrated Ibn Abbas: Gabriel was delayed to come onto the messenger of God, so the messenger mourned, and then Gabriel came to Muhammad and told him
"we descend not except by the Command of your Lord"(the verse) Narrated Mugahed: the messengers (angels) was late to come onto the messenger of God, then Gabriel came to him lately, Muhammad asked him: why you are so late?, he replied how can we came while you are not trimming your nails and moustaches and cleaning your teeth using miswak (an old traditional Arabic way of teeth brushing using piece of wood used by Muhammad and the people of his time) and" we descend not except by the Command of your Lord" (the verse)
I am wondering why the angels couldn't come to Muhammad, because he was not brushing his teeth and trimming his nails, were they disgusted? is that a reason for them to be late for him?
2) The Ranks chapter (Surat As-Saffaat) 164-166:" There is not one of us (angels), but has his known position, we stand in rows for the prayers. We are they who glorify"
Al-Galaleen said: Gabriel said to the prophet: we the 5B4 angels have a certain dignified rank in heaven worshiping God within that and not exceeding it, so angels were speaking by themselves in those verses and they are not the inspired words of God ( that was also mentioned in ( the perfection in the quran sciences) by Al-Syouty) Where all of those from the verse" it is only an Inspiration that is inspired."
So being the words of God they should not be said by Muhammad or the angels
4) Words with no message: The Islamic encyclopaedia mentioned in page 8166:' the analysis of the quran 's text is showing that it is much more complicated in the oldest verses of the quran, as they show no minor evidence of any message from God to people as:
The sun chapter (Surat Ash-Shams)( 91):"(And by the sun and its brightness; And by the moon as it follows it , And by the day as it shows up brightness; And by the night as it conceals it , And by the heaven and him who built it; And by the earth and him who spread it, . And by Nafs (soul), and him who perfected him"
The Striking Hour chapter (Surat Al-Qari'ah) (101):" Al-Qari'ah (the striking (Hour). What is Al-Qari'ah and what will make you know what Al-Qari'ah is? It is a Day whereon mankind will be like moths scattered about,. And the mountains will be like carded wool, Then as for him whose balance will be heavy, He will live a pleasant life , But as for him whose balance will be light, He will have his home in 5B4 Hawiyah (Hell). And what will make you know what it is? It is a hot blazing Fire"
Afternoon chapter (Surat Al-Asr) (103):" Man is in loss, and recommends one another to the truth and recommends one another to patience"
Rivalry chapter (Surat At-Takaathur)(102):" Gross rivalry diverts you, even till you visit the graves. Nay! You shall come to know. Again, Nay! You shall come to know. Nay! If you knew with a sure knowledge. You shall see the blazing Fire, and again, you shall see it with certainty of sight! Then, on that Day, you shall be asked about the delight"
4) Invocation words: The Islamic encyclopedia mentioned in page 8246:' there are words in the quran taking the pattern of invocation like:
The opening chapter (Surat Al-Fatihah): "In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, you we worship, and you we ask for help, guide us to the straight Way" Could God say in the name of himself? And could God say: "we worship" and ask for help and ask for guide to himself?
5) Praising words: The Islamic encyclopedia mentioned also verses containing praising words
Friday chapter (Surat Al-Jumu'ah) 1:"Whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth glorifies Allah,"
The Narration chapter (Surat Al-Qasas): "And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses….Glorified be Allah, and exalted 5B4 above all that they associate as partners"
The Ranks chapter (Surat As-Saffaat) 180:" Glorified be your Lord, the Lord of Honor and Power"
Ya-Sin chapter (Surat Ya-Sin) 36:"Glory be to Him, Who has created all the pairs of that which the earth produces"
The Adornments chapter (Surat Az-Zukhruf) 82:"Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth"
So does God glorify and praise himself? Those words are not definitely the words of God And that was also mentioned in the Islamic encyclopedia
6) Blessing words The Islamic encyclopedia also mentioned in page 8247 some quran verses with blessing frame as "Blessed be Allah" as:
The Heights chapter (Surat Al-A'raf) 54:"Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamîn (all that exists)"
The Believers chapter (Surat Al-Mu'minun) 14:" So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators." The Dominion chapter (Surat Al-Mulk) 1:" Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion"
Also in the chapters of The Forgiver (Surat Ghafir) and The Criterion chapter (Surat Al-Furqan) it was mentioned" blessed be Allah" So could the speaker in those verses be God himself and he is blessing himself?? Or it must be the words of human who is blessing God
7) Thanking words Also according to the Islamic encyclopedia there are verses with thanking frame as
The opening chapter (Surat Al-Fatihah):"All the praises and t 5B4 hanks be to Allah"
The Originator of Creation chapter (Surat Fatir) 1:" All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth"
Also in other chapters like the cattle chapter (Surat Al-An'am), the cave chapter (Surat Al-Kahf) and Saba' chapter (Surat Saba') there are verses with that thanking frame
And thanks can't be the words of God as he couldn't thank himself
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In the name of Allah Most Beneficent Most Merciful All praise is for Allah the Exalted and may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon His Messenger Muhammad and his family and companions and all those who follow them and their way until the Day of Resurrection Introduction "Do they not then consider the Qur’an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction." [4:82] God created man for a noble purpose: to worship Him and lead a righteous life based on His commands and guidance to mankind. Mankind learned this by God sending Messengers with clear and practical instructions of the meaning of life and how to worship God properly. God also revealed to these Prophets and Messengers knowledge about what will happen after death and the rewards and punishments for one’s actions. These Prophets and Messengers convey the same prevailing message which is entrusted to them by God. They proclaimed: "…Oh my people! Worship God! (i.e., without associating anything with him) You have no other god but Him. [Qur'an: 7:65] God sent a Prophet and/or Messenger to every nation throughout the history of mankind. "And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a messenger (proclaiming): Worship Allah (Alone) and avoid (or keep away from) all false deities" [Qur'an: 16:36]
Some of them we have been informed of and others we have not. These Prophets and Messengers include, but not limited to: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Lot, David, Solomon, Elias, Elisha, Hood, Thul-Kifi, Enoch, Jonah, Job Shu’aib, Saalih, Ezra, Zachariyyah, John, Jesus , Muhammad and others peace and blessings be upon them all. Some of them were sent with Books while others were not. Some of the books that we were informed of are the Scriptures of Abraham, the Torah of Moses, the Zaboor of Dawood, and the Injeel which was revealed to Jesus. All of these scriptures contained the same basic message from God to mankind. Each Prophet brought specific instructions from God addressed to a particular people for certain times in history and particular circumstances although the essential message remained the same. A few examples of this would be the fact that Moses' contemporaries were excellent in magic. So his major miracle was to defeat the best magicians of his days. Jesus' contemporaries were recognized as skillful physicians. Therefore, his miracles were to raise the dead and cure the incurable diseases. The Arabs, the contemporaries of the Muhammad, were known for their eloquence and magnificent poetry. So Muhammad's (Peace and Blessings be upon him) major miracle was the Qur’an, the equivalent of which the whole legion of the Arab poets and orators could not produce despite the repeated challenge from the Qur’an itself. However, the beauty and power of Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) major miracle is that it removes the constraints of place and time. It is the permanent miracle for all generations to see. Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is the final Messenger and that his Prophethood is also not limited to time and place, and is for all peoples (after the advent of his Prophethood) in all times until the Day of Judgement. Now, many who would agree with everything we have stated above may reject this about Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) his Messengership and the scripture with which he was sent. (The Qur’an) It is our objective here to prove without a shadow of a doubt that the Qur’an is in fact from God Himself and by extension that Muhammad is in fact a Messenger of God. For we cannot accept the Message and reject the Messenger, or vice versa. Both must be accept or both must be rejected. We can basically divide the groups of opinions on the Qur’an into three groups:
Those who say that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) himself wrote the Qur’an - Those who say that the Qur’an was written by someone else and taught to Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) - Those who believe that the Qur’an is the pure word of God having no human author In this article, we will briefly review the above three arguments based on logic, historical evidence, textual analysis and even scientific data. Based on our arguments above, we can logically conclude tha t if the Qur’an was written by Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) or some other man (or group of men) then it is correct to reject the man and his message. However, if it is proven that the Qur’an is indeed from God, then it is necessary for us to believe in it, follow it and accept Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) and a Messenger of God. We ask the reader to reflect… First Claim: Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) wrote the Qur’an. Those who claim that the Qur’an was written by Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) have given him a different motive for doing so and can basically be divided into the following groups - For Material Gain/ Power and Glory - To Unite the Arabs or to morally reform them - Epileptic Seizures or Self-Delusions With Muhammad being perhaps the most well documented man in human history, we can easily examine these claims and compare them to his life. Firstly, the claim that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) wrote the Qur’an is not new. His own people made this claim. In response, to this claim, God revealed the following: Say: "It is not for me to change it on my own accord; I only follow that which is revealed unto me. Verily, I fear if I were to disobey my Lord, the torment of the Great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)." Say: "If Allah had so willed, I should not have recited it to you nor would He have made it known to you. Verily, I have stayed amongst you a life time before this. Have you then no sense?" [Qur’an 10:15-16] This verse is telling his critics to reflect on the fact that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) lived amongst them from forty (40) years before reciting the Qur’an to them while never showing any signs of inclination to poetry and themselves knowing that he was illiterate. If he could no t read or write, then where did these magnificent verses come from? Also reflect on the fact that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is commanded in the verses above to “Say” twice. This is a command to make a certain statement to the people. One can find this command “Say” 332 times throughout the Qur’an. In other places in the Qur’an he is ordered to “proclaim”, “Glorify Your Lord”, “Prostrate Yourself” etc. So we ask is this how a man talks to himself or writes a book? Also one must consider the fact that even before his Prophethood Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was known amongst his people as “Al-Amin”, the trustworthy and the truthful. No one ever recorded a lie against him. Many Western historians agree with this analysis: "If a man like Muhammad were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness." George Bernard Shaw "My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level." --Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc ., 1978, p. 33 "Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him." --Diwan Chand Sharma, The Prophets of the East, Calcutta 1935, p. l 22. "He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports." --Bosworth Smith, Mohammad and Mohammadanism, London, 1874, p. 92. "Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?" Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276 -277 "It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras,1932, p. 4. "His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad." W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52. So, we ask the reader to reflect on the following: Is it logical to believe that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) who, until the age of forty and, as we mentioned earlier, was known to his people as al-Amin (The Trustworthy) and who is still admired even by Western scholars for his honesty and integrity, all of a sudden began to write a book that is unmatched in literary merit and that has not be matched by legions of the Arab poets and orators of the highest caliber throughout history? Is it reasonable to say that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him), made a false claim and on that very falsehood trained thousands of individuals of outstanding character, integrity, and honesty who were able to establish the best human society that the world has ever known? Material Gain? Power and Glory? Some claim that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) wrote the Qur’an for some type of material gain or for power and glory. However, this claim is at odds with the historical evidence. In fact, when one studies the history of Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) life, we find that he was actually materially more well off BEFORE claiming Prophethood than afterwards.
At twenty-five years old, Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was married to the wealthy widow named Khadijah and lived a life of relative comfort. However, after his call to Prophethood, his standard of living declined dramatically, sometimes going two months without cooking anything, surviving only on dates and water, because of the extreme hardships that he and his family endured after proclaiming God’s message. This would not be a temporary sacrifice, but a way of life for him until he died. At no time in his Prophethood did he ever live in a fancy palace, wear the finest clothes or enjoy the luxuries of this world. Even after the early Muslims became successful and started to make financial gains, Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) wives complained about their living conditions and wondered why they had to continue to live so poorly when there was (seemingly) no need. A revelation then came from God stating: O Prophet! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world, and its glitter, Then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free (i.e., divorce) in a handsome manner But if you desire Allah and His Messenger, and the home of the Hereafter, then verily, Allah has prepared for the good doers amongst you an enormous reward. (i.e., Heaven) [Qur’an 33:28-29] One of Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) companions, describing his room said: “I noticed that the contents of his room comprised of only three pieces of tanned skin and a handful of barley in a corner. I looked but failed to find anything else. I began to cry. He (Muhammad, Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him) said: “Why are you weeping”? I replied, ‘O’ Prophet of Allah! Why should I not cry? I can see the patterns of the mat imprinted on your body and I am also beholding all that you have in this room. O’ Prophet of Allah! Pray that Allah may grant ample provisions for us. The Persians and the Romans, who have no true faith and who do not worship Allah but they worship their Kings, live in gardens with streams flowing in their midst. But the chosen Prophet and accepted slave of Allah should live in such dire poverty?!” The Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was resting against his pillow, but when he heard me talk like this, he sat up and said, ‘O’ Umar! Are you still in doubt about this matter? Ease and comfort in the hereafter are much better than ease and comfort in this world. The disbelievers are enjoying their share of the good things in this world, whereas the Believers have all such things in store for them in the next’ “ (Muslim) Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) died poor and his deprivation of this world was self-imposed.
The most significant refutation to this claim that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was seeking wealth and power is the following story when the Chiefs of Makkah came to him trying to get him to stop preaching his message: “O’ Muhammad, You are, as you know a noble from your tribe and your lineage assures you a place of honor. And now you have brought to your people a matter of grave concern, whereby you have split their community, declared their way of life to be foolish, spoken shamefully of their gods and religion and called their forefathers disbelievers. Listen to what I propose and see if any of it is acceptable to you. If it is wealth that you seek, we will gather our wealth and make you the richest amongst us. If you seek honor, we will make you our overlord and we will make no decision without your consent. If you seek Kingship, then we will make you our King. And if you can not get rid of this demon that appears to you, we will find you a physician and spend all our money until you are cured.” Life of the Prophet Muhammad, Ibn Hishaam When he finished, Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) had received revelation which stated: Haa Meem. A revelation from Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. A Book whereof the Verses are explained in detail; A Qur'an in Arabic for people who know. Giving glad tidings and warning, but most of them turn away, so they don’t listen. And they say: "Our hearts are under coverings (screened) from that to which you invite us, and in our ears is deafness, and between us and you is a screen, so work you (on your way); verily, we are working (on our way). Say: "I am only a human being like you. It is inspired in me that your God is One, therefore take Straight Path to Him and obedience to Him, and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe to the polytheists. Those who give not the Zakât and they are disbelievers in the Hereafter. Truly, those who believe and do righteous good deeds, for them will be an endless reward that will never end [Qur’an 41:1-8] So had his aim been wealth and power, then he could have easily achieved his goal without going through the hardship and poverty he went throug h up until his death. To Unite The Arabs? The claim that Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) goal was to unite the Arabs is also difficult to defend when one looks into the life of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) and his own statements against nationalism, tribalism etc. Firstly, again, had this been his goal, he could have archived it when the Chiefs of Makkah offered him wealth and riches in exchange for him agreeing to stop preaching.
Secondly, the concept of nationalism does not exist in Islam. Islam made the bond of faith and truth and falsehood the most important basis for binding people together and not nationalism, tribe affiliation, race, or ethnicity. Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) himself spoke out on numerous occasions against this type of ideology stating: "Let people stop boasting about their forefathers who have died, who are merely fuel for the Hell Fire; or they will certainly be more insignificant with Allah than the beetle which rolls dung with its nose. Allah has removed from you the partisanship of the days of jaahiliyyah (refers to the Pre-Islamic days) and the boasting about one's forefathers. Indeed a person is either a pious Believer or a wretched sinner. All of mankind are the children of Adam, and Adam was created from clay. [Related by Abu Dawood and at- Tirmithi] Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) also said: "Indeed there is no excellence for an Arab over a Non-Arab, nor a Non-Arab over an Arab, nor a white person over a black one, nor a black person over a white one, except through piety.” [Related by Ahmad] The Qur’an is filled with the same message. One example of this is in the following verse: "O’ mankind, we have created you from male and female and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Indeed the most noblest of you with Allah is the one who has the most piety." [Surah al-Hujuraat 49:13] The examples from both the Qur’an and the statements of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) are too numerous to mention them all but this should suffice to make the point. Regardless of one’s color, nationality, or tribe, anyone who believes in the Islamic message is part of the brotherhood. With the above being the case, the logical question beckons that had this been written by Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) as these people allege for the purpose of uniting the Arabs, then why would he have put the exact opposite message in this book? Indeed, from the story we quoted above, we can see that this Islamic message actually divided the Arabs into two distinct groups: Muslims and non-Muslim. Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) also had companions that were from different tribes and were other than Arab.
He had Epilepsy? Other people who reject the Prophethood of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) agree because of the historical evidence of Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) impeccable character and truthfulness that he would not have deliberately fabricated the Qur’an and his Prophethood, so they allege for some reason that he either had epilepsy or was delusional and actually believed that he was a Prophet. Firstly, again keeping in mind that Muhammad is perhaps history’s most well documented man, there is absolutely no evidence from his life to support this claim, and all evidence suggests that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) lived a normal and sane life all the way up to his death at the age of sixty (60). However in spite of that, we will nonetheless prove that this claim is false and malicious. Secondly, even some Orientalists (non-Muslims who have achieved considerable status as authorities on Islam) themselves have rejected these claims of epilepsy as false and ridiculous. Daniel commenting on the claim of epilepsy said: “…epilepsy as applied to the Prophet was the explanation of those who sought to amuse rather than to instruct” Khalifa, Mohammad The Sublime Qu’ran and Orientalism p. 13 John Davenport said, "This remark that Muhammad has suffered the atta cks of epilepsy is one of the false, awkward sayings of the Greeks by which they meant to stain the prestige of the propagator of a new religion, and turn the world of Christianity against his moral behavior and qualities." Udhri Taqsir, p.20 There are various types of epilepsy, the main ones being grand mal, petit mal and psychomotor. Grand Mal includes generalized convulsions in which there is sudden unconsciousness with falling and shaking of the limbs. Sometimes the person screams just before the seizure and it is followed by stiffening and halted respiration. Next come jerky moves and one can bite one’s tongue and the person experiences a headache. Afterwards, they have no recollection of what happened. When Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) received revelation, it was described like the ringing of a bell, while other times the Angel Gabriel came to him in the form of a man and delivered the message directly. When one compares grand mal to the description of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) receiving revelation, it is obvious that he did not suffer from grand mal.
Petit Mal involves momentary lapses of awareness and more than seventy percent (70%) of patients have their first attack before the age of twenty. It involves no involuntary movements and can happen several times in a day without interruption of consciousness. This too, is in opposition to the description of Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) receiving revelation. Firstly, Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was forty (40) years old when he began to receive revelation. And each time he received revelation, it was for several minutes – not moments. Psychomotor seizures involve convulsions. They last only a few seconds are accompanied with screams and mumbles which do not make words and sentences, much less entire chapters of a book which are not only completely understandable, but of the highest eloquence. Epilepsy takes control of one’s thoughts during seizures, yet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was in complete control during the revelation and was able to recall the event in detail, unlike one who would have an epileptic seizure. Beyond the above facts, one must ask how could Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) unconsciously know about previous nations? How could he unconsciously answer questions people asked him and be so correct? No one ever stood up to claim that they too are familiar with these stories. How could he know about future events which would later come to pass? How could he have known that the Persians and Romans would go to war and who would win the war years in advance? Therefore when the facts are examined, the epileptic seizures theories can not only be easily ruled out as absurd but we can only conclude that this claim is made out of outright maliciousness because the evidence is overwhelmingly against them. Norman Daniel commenting on the slanders made against Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: "All writers (referring to Western Writers) tended - more or less - to cling to fantastic tales about Islam and its Prophet... The use of false evidence to attack Islam was all but universal." Norman Daniel, Islam and the West, One world Publications 1993, p.267 Daniel also goes on to explain: "At the worst there was the assertion of the fantastic, and its repetition without discrimination; at the best there was the selection of only those facts that served the purpose of controversy." ibid, p.268
Nonetheless, material gain; desire for power; desire to unify the Arabs and ever having had epilepsy are all easily ruled out when any unbiased reader one looks into the life of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) Second Claim: Someone other than Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) wrote the Qur’an Some people claim that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) did not write the Qur’an, but actually either copied it from other sources or learned it from someone else. Let us examine these claims separately Copied from Other Sources? Amongst those who claim that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) did not write the Qur’an but got it from other sources are those who claim that he simply copied either the Apocrypha (Some of the scriptures not included in the canon from the Council of Nicea in 325 CE that became known as the Bible, and later the “Catholic Version” of the Bible) and/or the Bible itself. The first problem with this argument is that Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) as we mentioned earlier was illiterate and could not copy what he could not read. Please keep in mind what we stated earlier about Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) well known impeccable character and the fact that it was known that he was illiterate and that there is also no record of the pagan Arabs in Mecca accusing Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) of not being illiterate. Had he not been illiterate, as the Qur’an itself stated, would this have not been easy to prove during Muhammad’s lifetime by his enemies who were eager to discredit him? This fact alone shows that it was common knowledge during his lifetime that he was indeed illiterate and no one questioned this. Secondly, even if one were to assume, for argument’s sake, that he could read, then the first Arabic translation of what is known as the “Old Testament” was not produced until some two hundred (200) years after Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) death and the first Arabic translation of the “New Testament” did not appear until one thousand years after his death Sidney Griffith, after extensive study, concludes that: All one can say about the possibility of a pre-Islamic, Christian version of the Gospel in Arabic is that no sure sign of its actual existence has yet emerged. "The Gospel In Arabic: An Enquiry Into Its Appearance In The First Abbasid Century", Oriens Christianus, Volume 69, p. 166 Ernst Würthwein states in his book The Text Of The Old Testament that: With the victory of Islam the use of Arabic spread widely, and for Jews and Christians in the conquered lands it became the language of daily life. This gave rise to the need of Arabic versions of the Bible, which need was met by a number of versions mainly independent and concerned primarily for interpretation The Text Of The Old Testament, 1988, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, pp. 104. So it is clear that no Arabic translations of the Bible or the Apocrypha existed during the lifetime of Muhammad (Peace and Blessing be upon him) Thirdly, the historical evidence suggests that there was no Christian or Jewish influence in the Hijaz (Inner part of the Arabian Peninsula) and particularly in Makkah where Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was born and raised. Before the birth of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) the Hijaz was for the most part ignored by the major empires of that time (The Persian and Roman) and left isolated with the exception of the time of when the Ethiopian King Abraha briefly tried and failed to conquer Makkah during the year Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) was born. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states concerning the time of the Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) that: The Hijaz [Arabian Peninsula] had not been touched by Christian preaching. Hence organization of the Christian church was neither to be expected nor found New Catholic Encyclopedia, Op.Cit, Vol. 1, pp. 721-722 There is a wealth of historical evidence to show similar evidence that there was no Christian influence in the Hijaz where Muhammad (Peace and Blessing be upon him) lived, so we must ask ourselves who then would have taught him the Bible and/or the apocrypha (which were not even in Arabic) for him to later take from these sources, that he would have had to memorize, to later write the Qur’an?
The Hijaz was so isolated that four men from amongst the Makkans who were searching for the true religion of Abraham had to leave Makkah in search of it. Waraqa Ibn Nawfal, was amongst them and returned as a Christian. We will discuss him more in detail below. Fourthly, the Qur’an itself answers these claims that someone was teaching Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) and at the same time points to the fact that the Arabic used in the Qur’an is pure. And indeed We know that they (The Disbelievers) say: "It is only a human being who teaches him (Muhammad Peace and Blessings be upon him)." The tongue of the man they refer to is foreign, while this (the Qur'an) is a clear Arabic tongue. [Qur'an 16:103] The Qur’an also says referring to Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) Neither did you (Muhammad, Peace and Blessing be upon him) read any book before it (the Qur'an), nor did you write any book with your hand. In that case, indeed, the followers of falsehood might have doubted [Qur'an 29:48] This argument was answered over one thousand four hundred years ago, by the Qur’an itself, yet these critics are still unable to provide any new evidence for their erroneous claims Learned the Qur’an from another human? Others, from amongst those who argue that Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) got the Qur’an from some other source allege that he was taught by another person. Some of them specifically allege that he was taught by Waraqa Ibn Nawfal who, as we mentioned earlier, was one of the four men who le ft the pagan faith of Makkah in search for the true religion of Abraham and returned as a Christian. Here we must state that the true religion of all of the Prophets including that of Abraham and Jesus was Islam. By “Islam”, we mean submission to God’s will. It is the same way, as we mentioned in the introduction that all of the Prophets called to: Pure Monotheism. By “Christian” (in the case of those like Waraqa Ibn Nawfal and Salman the Persian) we mean that he was a person who was following to the best of his ability the true Islamic teachings of Jesus which was in line with the teachings of all the other Prophets and expecting the last Prophet. This is what is meant by the religion of Abraham that they were in search of. This is the religion that Waraqa Ibn Nawfal was looking for and apparently found because when Muhammad was seeking an explanation of what he had seen after his first revelation Waraqa told him "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Messenger (Peace and Blessings be upon him) asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died. [Sahih al-Bukhari] While it is clear in the passage above that Waraqa died just a few days after Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) first received revelation from the Angel Gabriel, it was also clear that Waraqa Ibn Nawfal believed in his Prophethood. So the claim that Waraqa taught the Qur’an to Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) simply holds no water. Others try to allege that Salman the Persian taught the Qur’an to Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him). Salman, who was from Persia, was a Zoroastrian who converted to Christianity and ventured to Syria to learn more about his religion. There, he learned from one of the Christian Bishops about the coming of the last Prophet and the signs accompanying his advent. He then traveled to Hijaz where he was seized, sold into slavery, and taken to Madinah, where he eventually met Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him). When he found in Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) the fulfillment of all the signs of which he had been informed, he became a Muslim. In Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, we find the following account of Salman's journey in search of the true religion and the coming Prophet: "`Asim ibn `Umar ibn Qatada said that he was told that Salman the Persian told the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) that his master in 'Ammuriya told him to go to a certain place in Syria where there was a man who lived between two thickets. Every year as he used to go from one to the other, the sick used to stand in his way and everyone he prayed for was healed. He said, 'Ask him about this religion which you seek, for he can tell you of it.' So I went on until I came to the place I had been told of, and I found that people had gathered there with their sick until he came out to them that night passing from one thicket to the other. The people came to him with their sick and everyone he prayed for was healed. They prevented me from getting to him so that I could not approach him until he entered the thicket he was making for, but I took hold of his shoulder. He asked me who I was as he turned to me and I said, 'God have mercy on you, tell me about the Hanifiyyah, (the religion of Abraham).' He replied, 'You are asking about something men do not inquire of today; the time has come near when a prophet will be sent with this religion from the people of the haram (i.e. the hijaz) . Go to him, for he will bring you to it.' Then he went into the thicket. So, as we can see, had Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) been a impostor as the people who make this claim against him imply, then Salman would not have accepted his Prophethood, much less participated in the writing of the Qur’an with him. Secondly, Salman did not meet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) until after the migration to Madinah and hence AFTER more than two -thirds of the Qur’an (which includes the stories of the Prophets mentioned in the Bible) had already been revealed In Makkah. Thirdly, Salman was a Persian and his original tongue was not Arabic. The Qur’an’s literary style is so brilliant and awe-inspiring that even Linguists who were born speaking the Arabic language have not been successful at replicating it (despite repeated challenges from the Qur’an itself to be discussed later) much less a Persian who’s mother tongue was not Arabic. Even if someone wanted to claim that it was someone other than the people mentioned above, then we repeat the challenge of the Qur’an …Say: "Bring your proof if you are truthful." [Qur’an 2:111] As for anyone other than that, then we ask would there not be some evidence that someone was teaching Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him)? Would not someone have stepped forward to say that he was Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) “teacher”? Yet, we find no such evidence of this.
Third Claim: The Qur’an is the pure word of God having no human author After having examined the theories that either Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) wrote the Qur’an and that he got it from other sources and discussing the flaws in those arguments, the logical question beckons that if Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) did not write the Qur’an nor get it from another human or collect it from other sources, then where did it come from? We must now examine the theory that says that the Qur’an is the word of God sent to Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) and by extension that he is the Messenger of God. The Challenge First of all, the Qur’an in several places challenges mankind by saying: Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." [Qur'an 17:88] And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad, Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful. [Qur'an 2:23] And this Qur’an is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the Worlds. Or do they say: "He (Muhammad, Peace be upon him) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!" [Qur’an 10:37-38] Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him) forged it (the Qur’an)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!" [Qur’an 11:13] Or do they say: "He (Muhammad peace be upon him) has forged it (this Qur’an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recital like unto it if they are truthful. [Qur’an 52:33-34] However, despite these repeated challenges, the Arabs who were at the height of their poetic eloquence during the time of revelation of the Qur'an still could not even produce the shortest surah like it. Alqama bin cAbd al-Manaf confirmed this when he addressed the Quraysh Tribe by saying: Oh Quraish, a new calamity has befallen you. Mohammed was a young man the most liked among you, most truthful in speech, and most trustworthy, until, when you saw gray hairs on his temple, and he brought you his message, you said that he was a sorcerer, but he is not, for we have seen such people and their spitting and their knots; (i.e., signs of people who engage in black magic) you said, a mystic, but we have seen such people and their behavior, and we have heard their rhymes; you said a soothsayer, but he is not a soothsayer, for we have heard their rhymes; and you said a poet, but he is not a poet, for we have heard all kinds of poetry; you said he was possessed, but he is not for we have seen the possessed, and he shows no signs of their gasping and whispering and delirium. (signs of possession) Oh men of Quraish, look to your affairs, for by Allah a serious thing has befallen you. This is a challenge that still stands today, as no one has met this challenge in the over one thousand four hundred (1,400) years since it was first made. This is a point upon which we ask the reader to ponder. Unmatched Eloquence One of the most well-known stories of how the Qur’an’s miraculous eloquence effected individuals is the story of al-Waleed ibn al-Mugheerah, who was the most eloquent and highly esteemed poet of Makkah at the time of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) Al-Waleed ibn al-Mugheerah passed by Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) and heard him reciting the Qur’an and this had a visible effect upon him. He was shaken and startled by what he had heard. The news of this incident spread throughout Makkah. Abu Jahl (the arch enemy of Islam) afraid that the people of Makkah might be affected by the news and convert to Islam, rushed to al-Waleed and told him “Oh my uncle! Say something (against Muhammad) so that the people will know that you are against him and hate (his message)” Al-Waleed replied, “And what can I say? For I swear by Allah, there is none amongst you who knows poetry as well as I do, nor can any compete with me in composition or rhetoric-not even in the poetry of the jinns! And yet, I swear by Allah, Muhammad’s speech (meaning the Qur’an) does not bear any similarity to anything I know and I swear by Allah, the speech that he says is very sweet, and is adorned with beauty and charm. Its first part is fruitful and its last part is abundant (meaning that it is full of deep meaning) and it conquers (all other speech) and remains unconquered! It shatters and destroys all that has come before it (because of its eloquence) Abu Jahl responded “Your people will not be satisfied until you speak against him!” Al- Waleed therefore requested Abu Jahl “Leave me for a few days, so that I may think of an appropriate response to give the Qur’aish” After a few days, Abu Jahl came back to him and asked him what he had prepared. Al Waleed, during this time could not think of any explanation to give except “This (the Qur’an) is a type of magic that has an effect on its listeners.” Biography of Prophet Muhammad, Ibn Hishaam p. 225 In response to this God Revealed in the Qur’an: Nay! Verily, he (al-Waleed) has been stubborn and opposing our signs….verily he thought and plotted; so let him be cursed, how he plotted! And once more let him be cursed; how he plotted! Then he thought! Then he frowned and was irritated; then he turned back and was proud! Then he said, ‘This is nothing but magic from old; this is nothing but the word of a magician!’ I will cast him into the Hell- Fire [Qur’an 74:16-26] This was the testimony of the greatest poet alive during the time of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) Orientalist Author Arthur Arberry, who studied and became fluent in the Arabic language while studying in Egypt recognized the beauty of the Qur’an. He said: “…the rhetoric and rhythm of the Arabic of the Qur’an are so characteristic, so powerful, so highly emotive, that any version whatsoever is bound by the nature of things to be but a copy of the glittering splendor of the original” Arthur Arberry, The Koran Interpreted p. 24 Many other non-Muslims have also confirmed the Qur’an’s unmatched eloquence. Hamilton Gibb, the famous University of Oxford Arabist said: ...the Meccans still demanded of him a miracle, and with remarkable boldness and self confidence Mohammad appealed as a supreme confirmation of his mission to the Koran itself. Like all Arabs they were the connoisseurs of language and rhetoric. Well, then if the Koran were his own composition other men could rival it. Let them produce ten verses like it. If they could not (and it is obvious that they could not), then let them accept the Koran as an outstanding evident miracle H A R Gibb, Islam - A Historical Survey, 1980, Oxford University Press, p. 28 Alfred Guillaume wrote: The Qur’an is one of the world's classics which cannot be translated without grave loss. It has a rhythm of peculiar beauty and a cadence that charms the ear. Many Christian Arabs speak of its style with warm admiration, and most Arabists acknowledge its excellence. When it is read aloud or recited it has an almost hypnotic effect that makes the listener indifferent to its sometimes strange syntax and its sometimes, to us, repellent content. It is this quality it possesses of silencing criticism by the sweet music of its language that has given birth to the dogma of its inimitability; indeed it may be affirmed that within the literature of the Arabs, wide and fecund as it is both in poetry and in elevated prose, there is nothing to compare with it Alfred Guillaume, Islam, 1990 (Reprinted), Penguin Books, pp. 73-74 It is a miracle in itself that for over one thousand, four hundred years, this challenge to match the Qur’an’s is still stands unmet today despite many failed attempts to do so. Could a human being have known these things? Although the Qur’an is a book of guidance for all of mankind and not a science book , one of the great miracles of the Qur’an is its conformity with modern science. It is a sign of its miraculous nature that it mentions things that no human being could have possibly known one thousand four hundred (1,400) years ago! We will give just a few examples here with commentary from some modern scientists who have read the Qur’an and compared it with science. …He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, from one stage to another, and all along three veils of darkness surrounded you [Qur’an 39:6] Dr. Keith Moore, one of the world’s prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology at the University of Toronto said: "The realization that the embryo develops in stages in the uterus was not proposed until the 1940's, and the stages used nowadays were not adopted worldwide until the 15th century C.E." The Qur’an also says: From what thing did He create him? From Nutfa (male and female semen drops) He created him, and then set him in due proportion. [Qur’an 80:18] Commenting on this verse, Dr. Moore said: "The idea that development results from a genetic plan contained in the chromosomes, of the zygote was not discovered until the end of the 19th century C.E. The verse from the Qur'an (80:18) clearly implies that the nutfa (i.e. the initial drop of fluid) contains the plan or blueprint for the future characteristics and features of the developing human being". Then We made the Nutfa into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators. [Qur’an 23:14] The best way to really appreciate the beauty of the verses above is to see pictures of the human embryo as it goes through the various stages of development. The reference to “…chewed lump of flesh” is remarkably similar to the appearance of the embryo after the first month. Consider this in light of the fact tha t if one reads what embryologists said on the subject just one hundred years ago, one would laugh at its inaccuracies. Some of the other facts given in the Qur’an include the formation of milk (16:66), the orbiting of planets (21:33 and 36:40) and the description of the water cycle (15:22 and 35:9) Maurice Bucaille writes on this topic: “The above observation makes the hypothesis advanced by those who see Muhammad as the author of the Qur'an untenable. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature? How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human being could possibly have developed at that time, and all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?” - Maurice Bucaille, The Bible, the Qur'an and Science, 1978, p 125. Professor Alfred Kroner who is one of the world’s most famous geologists said: "Thinking about many of these questions and thinking where Muhammad came from, he was after all a bedouin. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case We ask the sincere reader to ponder on these facts The Miracle not limited by place and time We mentioned in the introduction that every Prophet is sent with miracles to establish his Prophethood. Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) performed many miracles which have been documented by those who witnessed them such as the splitting of the moon, the increase of an inadequate amount of food to a large number of people, and many other miracles that were not permanent and could not be seen by every generation in every place. The Qur’an, however is the permanent miracle and it is not limited by time and place. Generations far removed from Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) time can witness it for themselves. Ibn Khaldoon, a renowned Muslim historian put it very beautifully when he said: “Know that the greatest of all miracles, and the most sacred and blessed and the clearest proof is the Qur’an that was revealed to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him). This is because all other miracles, in general, were brought forth separate from the actual inspiration (that the Prophet received), as a means of proving the truthfulness of the inspiration. As for the Qur’an, it is the inspiration and the miracle in one, and is therefore the clearest and most powerful miracle, since it combines the boast and the proof into one.” Itr, p. 113 Also, we ask the reader to reflect on the following statement of Ibn Taymiyyah: “The greatest (of all the miracles) is the Qur’an that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) came with, for it is the religion of God and His speech, and it is proof of the Prophethood of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him). Its very revelation is one of the most supernatural and extraordinary of acts, for it is the call (to the worship of God alone) and the proof (of the Prophethood of Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him) and the miracle (i.e., all in one)” Collection of Islamic Rulings, vol. 11 p. 324
The Life Changing Effect Of The Qur’an The Qur’an says: “Verily this Qur’an leads to that which is most right…” [Qur’an 17:9] The Qur’an is a book for all of mankind that is meant to reform the individual and even the society. It changes the individual that is devoid of guidance and improves an individual if he is already on the straight path. Before the Prophethood of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) the Arabs were heavy drinkers of alcohol, engage in tribal battles and even bury their female babies alive. Yet, when one studies the history of the Qur’an, one finds that within a span of twenty years, due to the miraculous effect of the Qur’an, was able to change almost all the Arabs and non-Arabs in the Arabian Peninsula and bind them into a brotherhood of faith and love that was so strong that if any part of the brotherhood would anguish, the whole brotherhood was affected negatively. These people became leaders of the world and cornerstones of a great civilization whose influence would remain centuries This effect lasted long after Muhammad’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) death. We see this in the following passage: The sterling character and qualities of the Muslim soldiers were once praised by a Roman Officer in these words: “At night you will find them prayerful; during the day you will find them fasting. They keep their promises, order good deeds, suppress evil and maintain complete equality among themselves” Another testified thus: “They are horsemen by day and ascetics by night. They pay for what they eat in territories under their occupation. They are first to salute when they arrive at a place and are valiant fighters who just wipe out the enemy.” And a third testified: “During the night it seems that they do not belong to this world and have no other business than to pray, and during the day, when one sees them mounted on their horses, one feels that they have been doing nothing else their whole lives. They are great archers and great lancers, yet they are so devoutly religious and remember God so much and so often that one can hardly hear talk about anything else in their company” Ibn Kathir, Bidayyah wa Nihayyah pg. 53
Lack of Contradiction The Qur’an challenges mankind by saying: "Do they not then consider the Qur’an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction." [4:82] The fact that there are no contradictions in the Qur’an, despite being revealed over the twenty-three year period, under different circumstances, addressing different problems, is a clear indication to the sincere and objective reader of its divine origin. The Logical Conclusion We have established that the Qur’an could not have been written by Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be upon him) nor did he learn it from someone else or collect it from other sources. Are you, the reader, still in doubt about this? We ask you, if you are still in doubt to then take up the challenge of the Qur’an itself and prove it to be false. Ponder upon that fact that not one of the legions of brilliant poets that have lived in the past 1,400 years have been able to match the Qur’an beauty and eloquence despite repeated challenges from the Qur’an to do so. And they never will. Why are they not successful? Because the Qur’an is indeed the word of God and who can compete with God? God has told us in the Qur’an that they will never be able to do it. Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'ân, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." [Qur’an 17:88] In other words, the Qur’an itself has predicted that it will remain unparalleled and unrivaled for all of eternity. The futility of trying to match the Qur’an’s brilliance and eloquence has been foretold: And if you are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him), then produce a Surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful. But if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers. [Qur’an 2:23-24]
The above is exactly what has occurred! None have been able to meet this challenge to his day and they can not do so. Throughout this work, we have asked the sincere reader to ponder. We also stated in the beginning that if we conclude that the Qur’an is the word of God, then we must by extension accept the Messengership of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessing be upon him) The rational criteria is at the sincere reader’s disposal, and one's emotional commitment to religion should be preceded by an intellectual commitment to it. Reason, in fact, is our primary means for finding the Truth. We can put any religion or system of beliefs to test by examining whether it is rational, universal, applicable at all times, in all places, and by people of all colors and languages, and whether the religion's Scripture is free of alteration, internal and external inconsistencies. A scripture is internally inconsistent if it contains discrepancies and contradictions within its text, and externally inconsistent if it contradicts facts (not theories) from science and nature as we know them. For it is impossible that God does not know His creation or that which He creates. Our experience tells us that a few minutes of reasoning can usually leave us persuaded in the truth of God's absolute Oneness and Uniqueness, so what remains to be studied is which religion is truly monotheistic in its nature. One of the major criteria for distinguishing the Truth from errors, that we would like to stress, is the authenticity of the religious scripture. We have presented above indisputable proof that the Qur’an is the word of God. The reality is that Muslims are the only ones who even claim to have an authentic scripture from God, in its original form, of which not a single letter has been changed. Most other religions admit that their scriptures are in fact human writings. And if we say that there is a Truth and God, we are likely to believe that God wants us to do certain things and abstain from others. If we are of the view that God would not leave us without a reliable Revelation, then the mere fact that Muslims are the only ones who even claim to have an authentic revelation could attest to the truthfulness of their claim. However, as mentioned earlier, the Qur'an invites us to ponder and reason and to accept faith based on knowledge, rather than the blind following of our traditions. As we have quoted throughout this work from the Qur’an "Do they not then consider the Qur’an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction." [4:82] Again we ask the sincere reader to ponder.
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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Is it a newspaper?how it will readable? Even your way in replying is a tragedy. God bless you.
Posts: 222 | From: Heaven | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Servant: I didn't like to speak about Quran or Islam by now but it seems still some friends need to be aware about.
In the quran there are verses telling that its words are the inspired God's words like:
1) The Cattle chapter( Surat Al-An'am) 19:" this Quran has been revealed to me" 2) The Cave chapter (Surat Al-Kahf):" It has been inspired to me" 3) The Star chapter (Surat An-Najm) "it is only an Inspiration that is inspired."
Corrections
1. Al-An'am 19
Say: "What thing is most weighty in evidence?" Say: "Allah is witness between me and you; This Qur'an hath been revealed to me by inspiration, that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can ye possibly bear witness that besides Allah there is another Allah?" Say: "Nay! I cannot bear witness!" Say: "But in truth He is the one Allah, and I truly am innocent of (your blasphemy of) joining others with Him."
Allah is telling Prophet Mohamed to "SAY" which means the words are not INSPIRATION in the way that you are implying.
2. Surat Al-Kahf 110
Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.
Allah is AGAIN telling Prophet Mohamed SAWS to "SAY"
3. Surat Al-Najm 1-12
By the Star when it goes down,- Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him: He was taught by one Mighty in Power, Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form); While he was in the highest part of the horizon: Then he approached and came closer, And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer; So did (Allah) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey. The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw. Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
Tafsir of these verses (Overall)
The theme of the discourse is to warn the disbelievers of Makkah about the error of the attitude that they had adopted towards the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).
The discourse starts in a way as if to say: "Muhammad is neither deluded nor gone astray, as you are telling others in your propaganda against him, nor has he fabricated this teaching of Islam and its message, as you seem to think he has. In fact, whatever he is presenting is nothing but Revelation which is sent down to him. The verities that are presented before you, are not the product of his own surmise and speculation but realities of which he himself is an eye witness. He has himself seen the Angel through whom this knowledge is conveyed to him. He has been directly made to observe the great Signs of his Lord: whatever he says is not what he has himself thought out but what he has seen with his own eyes. Therefore, your disputing and wrangling with him is just like the disputing and wrangling of a blind man with a man of sight over a thing which the blind man cannot see but he can see."
This seems to be exactly what you are doing Servant. Disputing and wrangling over something that you clearly do not understand. I'm rather glad you chose that particular surah to try and prove a point
I will not bother to go through all of the article that you cut and paste, because in each case the same thing remains, the verses have been taken out of context and make no sense alone. Before you read an article on the Internet then cut and paste it to serve as a tool for your blasphemous campaign, you should check how factual it is. No point cutting a potato with a blunt knife is there?
I know that you are making a war with Batman but remember that Batman is ONE Muslim out of many, you're not only batting insults at him, but other Muslims who are not making any problems with you.
I would like to ASK you kindly to stop. If you want to post some interesting information for us about Christianity that would be nice. But to continue posting rubbish that you have cut and paste is not. Yesterday I found a wonderful website belonging to a group of Christians and Muslims, where TOGETHER they post articles about their faiths supporting each other and making peace. They don't poster slanderous things about each other and it's so pleasant to see cooperation between followers from two of God's religions.
To Batman, I can understand what you are trying to do, but you are only encouraging Servant to post nasty lies about Islam. You're not doing Islam any favours because on the face of it many people reading this message board may believe him and his posts. Help your brothers and sisters in Islam to combat the incorrect view that people have of Muslims and our religion. Don't force him to keep finding the rubbish that he has done so far. In the least debate with him using facts (the Quran and Sunnah) and not see who can find the worst articles on the two faiths. I'm asking you Muslim to Muslim to discontinue and post nice things about Islam instead
Ramadan Mubarak to you both.
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:This seems to be exactly what you are doing Servant. Disputing and wrangling over something that you clearly do not understand.
I tried to prove by Quranic verses that Mohamed said God is who only revealed the verses to him and all words came from God's him self
Again I tried to prove that there are another verses seems not from the God him self I used only the verses which referred to this meaning and I hadn't to post the full verses because the point is enough clear by that way. You have proved by your posting that the verses I mentioned are correct.
This from the Islamic encyclopedia and it will be scanned soon on the web. Don't blame me my friend blame Al-Azhar who did the preface of this encyclopedia mentioned that it was the greatest work in the Islamic history.
quote:Allah is AGAIN telling Prophet Mohamed SAWS to "SAY"
I am wondering that by adding the word "SAY" it means the God who speaks ,do you think we have to believe in that as the people in desert did from 1400 years before?
quote:I will not bother to go through all of the article that you cut and paste, because in each case the same thing remains, the verses have been taken out of context and make no sense alone. Before you read an article on the Internet then cut and paste it to serve as a tool for your blasphemous
can you tell me another way than cut and paste, I am not always online ,I have to reply in separate notpad and do paste is that bothering you?
you don't know that the verses were coming to Mohamed separate not as a whole sura? you don't know that for every occasion there was their verse?
How you said now that I am taking out the verses from the context,Quran is not a history story I have to mention the whole story behind the verses.
quote: know that you are making a war with Batman but remember that Batman is ONE Muslim out of many, you're not only batting insults at him, but other Muslims who are not making any problems with you.
I am not in war with Batman because I am considering him still young for that and very needful to read many books in both Christianity and Islam too.
And what kind of insulting I did? If I said my opinion in some points about Islam,is it mean I am insulting Islam?
Do I have to cheat you and do blessing and praising Islam all the way and time like Islamic media? wakeup dear. Isn't enough that both open mind Muslims and Christian are silent form 1400 years till now?!!
quote:To Batman, I can understand what you are trying to do, but you are only encouraging Servant to post nasty lies about Islam. You're not doing Islam any favours because on the face of it many people reading this message board may believe him and his posts.
I am not posting lies not just simply saying that and you want everyone to believe you, I am talking to open mind Muslims who accept criticism to the religion,
I have been reading in Islam for more than ten years in Arabic and English and I know what I am talking about.
It seems that I am the only person who criticizing Islam in the web site, but you have to do more search about that!!
Would you tell me what I have to do? When I find in Quran that me and my family are infidels-Kafir because we are Christians and people of book and believing in God before Islam.
When I find in Quran that my grand fathers had to pay Jizya in submission with their heads down to Muslims or they had to be killed because the didn't believe in Mohamed as per sura Altouba 9-29.
When I find in Quran that we are accused by corrupting our sacred book which is a funny stupid accusation when Christians or Jewish will leave someone to corrupt our sacred book by our hands.
When I find in Quran that we are the grandsons of Monkeys and pigs.
When I find in Quran that the religion of God is only Islam and the others will go hell.
When I find in Quran that all the stories in my sacred book had been quoted by Mohamed with great changing to match his claim.
When I find in Quran tens of verses encouraging terrorist Muslim to attack me and my family in buses and streets.
When I find in Quran that my Muslim friends who want to return back to their original faith which is Christianity they have to be killed as per Sura Alnsaa 4-56 Altoba 9-12 Albakara 2-217
When I find in Quran accusing Christians that they changed the correct things by the wrong and they know that as per Sura Al Imran 3-73
Our religion is a peaceful and didn't ask us to attack or killing non Christians
I am not opposite to buddiasm, Sikhism or Hinduism because they didn't claim they abrogated my religion and I have to follow any of them to be saved as Islam claims.
There are a lot of things, this thread isn't enough for, but what I can say that you can't hide the sun from the people who were living 1400 years in a dark castle called Islam.
Posts: 222 | From: Heaven | Registered: Jul 2006
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Servant you obviously did not understand ONE word that I said. You can not quote lines of the Quran alone, as you did, because then the meaning is lost! The same goes for any sentence, book, article etc. I proved that you are wrong because you left out the other parts of the ayats. They have a different meaning when considered as a whole.. where did you learn English!
Have a look at this taken from a website offering guidance on interpreting Bible scriptures:
The Importance of Context A woman entered the Democratic primary for governor of the state of Texas. She was convinced that the Bible had told her she would win the nomination. When she received the official list of names from the primary she saw her name printed last. Then she read in her Bible, "Many that are first will be last, and the last first" (Matthew 19:30). On the basis of that verse she thought God was telling her she would win. But she lost. This amusing story illustrates the need for interpreting Scripture in its proper context. Taken out of context, the Scriptures can be twisted to say just about anything.
Seeking the biblical author's intended meaning necessitates interpreting Bible verses in context.
Every word in the Bible is part of a verse, and every verse is part of a paragraph, and every paragraph is part of a book, and every book is part of the whole of Scripture.
No verse of Scripture can be divorced from the verses around it. Interpreting a verse apart from its context is like trying to analyze a Rembrandt painting by looking at only a single square inch of the painting, or like trying to analyze Handel's "Messiah" by listening to a few short notes.
The context is absolutely critical to properly interpreting Bible verses. In interpreting Scripture, there is both an immediate context and a broader context.
The immediate context of a verse is the paragraph (or paragraphs) of the biblical book in question. The immediate context should always be consulted in interpreting Bible verses.
The broader context is the whole of Scripture. The entire Holy Scripture is the context and guide for understanding the particular passages of Scripture.
We must keep in mind that the interpretation of a specific passage must not contradict the total teaching of Scripture on a point.
Individual verses do not exist as isolated fragments, but as parts of a whole.
The exposition of these verses, therefore, must involve exhibiting them in right relation both to the whole and to each other. Scripture interprets Scripture.
As J. I. Packer puts it, "if we would understand the parts, our wisest course is to get to know the whole."
I don't know what Islamic Encyclopedia you are talking about. Maybe if you give me the details of it then I can see it for myself. Author, publisher, ISBN Number.
I know how the verses were revealed to Prophet Mohamed and it wasn't half of a line at a time. You DO have to understand the history behind each verse, this way you will not misunderstand their meanings as you have done. As I understand from some of my Christian friends, they also read the Bible with other books to aid their understanding.
You are insulting Islam Servant... no two ways about it. You can have your opinions, but what you are posting are the blasphemous writings of others. They're not even your own words. I don't expect you to praise Islam, I don't even expect you to respect my religion. However, I don't see what satisfaction you derive from waging a hate campaign against Islam. As you so rightly stated, there are many websites doing the same thing so why not go and join them? You could wallow with other like minded people. I would imagine that educating people about Christianity would bring you more pleasure though and serve as a way to bring you blessings from God.
How can you make a post implying that the Quran is not from God and expect ANY Muslim to accept that? The Quran is our Holy Book revealed from Allah to our beloved Prophet! If we don't believe in that then how can we be Muslim?
quote: I have been reading in Islam for more than ten years in Arabic and English and I know what I am talking about.
Unfortunately I don't think you do.
With regards to the rest of your ranting about what you should do if you find XXX in the Quran, I would suggest that you read the Surah or Ayat with Tafsir of the Quran so you can understand it better. In fact Servant you don't want to UNDERSTAND the Quran do you?
Do you know what Jewish people say about Christianity? Similar things to what you say about Islam How do you feel about that? Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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servant you never mentioned anything regarding el nasekh wel mansookh can you please explain it and give examples? god bless you >
-------------------- Always remembering that we are nothing without His Merciful hand over us. Posts: 284 | From: gods heaven | Registered: Aug 2006
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Why can't Christians and Muslims offer each other the same respect which non believers offer them? To me , both scriptures are man made texts. They are the work of many men and this is reflected in the contradictions and flaws within. Far from being disrespectful to 'God' my view doesn't require me to arrogantly bash doctrine over the head of those with specific faiths. Religions have often sought to discourage opposing views. Apostasy is even seen as a reason to kill men and women created by 'God.' That such self preserving measures are apparent in scriptures is evidence of the desire to control and enforce.
I have a sense of 'God' as a creator of the universe, beauty, mankind. To me , 'God' would be fair, forgiving, all knowing and all seeing. Why would 'God' condone violating human rights? Why would 'God' seek to keep people in fear and poverty? Why would 'God' wish women to have lesser rights than man (and a degree is lesser)? Why would 'God' demand that evil acts are done in 'his' name, like killing? Why would 'God' want religions to compete with each other, over which loves 'God' best and which faith is the 'real' one?
'God' wouldn't, in my opinion.
Of course, holy book thumpers are free to disagree. They will quote the words written by man, in their 'God's' name, to justify everything and anything, contrary to human decency and common sense. That is their right. I don't see the need to kill anyone who disagrees with my belief system. I don't see the questioning of my views as an insult to 'God.' The holy book thumpers just don't get that their behaviour insults 'God.' Why? If there is a 'God' (which I have no proof of but feel a sense of), I think God would truly be great. 'God' is above criticism, can not suffer by the blind words of blind men, surely? 'God' must be saddened by all of those who abuse, impose religion on and oppress others in 'his' name.
If we respect 'God's' creation - mankind, we would move forward so much more quickly. If your religion doesn't allow you to respect all of God's people, with their wide range of beliefs, question it, question it and question it again. If your religion tells you not to question, doubt it, doubt it and doubt it again. If extremists are distorting your religion, why protect them? If idiots spew hatred, yet claim to share your faith, why condone such behaviour. Don't offer protection to such idiocy as they happen to be a Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Jew, whatever.
The last vestige of idiots is to declare that no one understands anything but them. You can study Islam and not be a Muslim. You can study Christianity and not be a Christian. You can study religion and not believe. I absolutely respect everyone's right to believe what they like and that belief is a personal matter. I don't respect anyone who seeks to impose any religion on another human being or denies others freewill.
The sad thing about these threads is that they will go on and on, with the holy book thumpers learning nothing about each other's religion, respecting no one but themselves and wondering why their own lives are so miserable.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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-------------------- Always remembering that we are nothing without His Merciful hand over us. Posts: 284 | From: gods heaven | Registered: Aug 2006
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No, I am not an atheist. I respect atheist belief though, as I respect the right of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews to have a view on 'God' and creation. Are you an atheist?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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im not sure what i am anymore, im waiting for someone to label me Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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^ mmmm, bit like a supermarket Half moderate muslim? discounted muslim?
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by WOTEVER: ^ mmmm, bit like a supermarket Half moderate muslim? discounted muslim?
WOTEVER it would be nice just to be considered a 'basic' Muslim but according to some 'real' muslims who seem to have been appointed judges im not even that Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: The Quran has nothing to do with God.
really you dont say omg i must be reading it wrong shall i read it in english or ARROW LANGUAGE which wud be ''1HUNGLOW'' can ulink me to the proper quran im sorry i shall not be misinformed next time ....
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-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: The Quran has nothing to do with God.
really?? thats funny coz mine says God all the way through it so who do you think it means? Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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am not atheis, no. I believe in the one god and in the one only book. wish you all did the same.. but to each his own i guess. gbu.
-------------------- Always remembering that we are nothing without His Merciful hand over us. Posts: 284 | From: gods heaven | Registered: Aug 2006
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ITS OK I ALSO BELIEVE IN ONE BOOK'' so we all cant have it your way so it has to be mine know kneel ....2meeeeee
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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What sort of question is that? Right after SayWhatyouSee explained her believesystem. If you don't have solid and rigid opinions (that may well have nothing to do with God at all, by the way, more with rigid human fears) but more welleducated and considerate thoughts of your lifesearch/path with God you get questioned. Can one bridge a 'gap' like that? Talking about religion?
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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-------------------- Always remembering that we are nothing without His Merciful hand over us. Posts: 284 | From: gods heaven | Registered: Aug 2006
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The atheist remark was sadly too predictable. Ignorance can be bridged but stupidity can't. To ask such a ridiculous question implies an inability to read or think for themselves. I agree with the sentiment contained within your point.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Oooh Seeeeeeeeervaaaaaaaaaaaaant where aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare yaaaaaaaaaaa a3deen benethaza2 henah
-------------------- Always remembering that we are nothing without His Merciful hand over us. Posts: 284 | From: gods heaven | Registered: Aug 2006
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i can write a book saying God is a door knob but that does not make it so. The quran has nothing to do with God regardless of what it says. It has become a vechicle uses by dirty old men to oppress women and keep society poor and uneducated. Time to wake up and smell the coffee
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:You are insulting Islam Servant... no two ways about it. You can have your opinions, but what you are posting are the blasphemous writings of others.
I just asked as a non Muslim have read Quran and listening that Muslims saying all the words are from God him self, then I found that there are many verses seem as someone praising ,thanking,blessing,wishing from God and not the God who is speaking and the big problem how these verses exist in the preserved tablet?!
Again I found another verses from the angels, Jenny, Ant. Another letters have no meaning like A, B, C and Muslims still insisting that it's a miracle letters which seem funny to non Muslims.
So if a non Muslim wondering and inquiry about that point, is it seems rubbish and Blasphemy, so how you think you will attract smart non Muslims to Islam in 21st century ,do you think they will say only shahada and their eyes are blind and they don't have to ask any question about Quran and Mohamed?
How you will clarify the inquires of non Muslims if you are considering who is asking is telling rubbish?
You have generalized your reply and you didn't answer my inquiry?
You are just talking about my self and my education but at the end we are getting nothing from you about what I am posting don't care who I am ? Instead of concentrating about me concentrate about posting good reply to satisfy the readers, Please think again my friend.
quote:How can you make a post implying that the Quran is not from God and expect ANY Muslim to accept that? The Quran is our Holy Book revealed from Allah to our beloved Prophet! If we don't believe in that then how can we be Muslim?
Did I say that, can you read the last sentence I posted I mentioned not all the words of Quran seems from God.
I don't know what you are expecting from non Muslims who concern about Islam and Mohamed, do you think after reading Quran they have directly to believe without any questions or inquiries?
Aren't you living in Britain as I see in your location, you didn't watch or attend any debates in any field before?
I ain't expect Muslim to accept that of course, but I have offered an article clarify a hidden points to Muslims in a polite way not only two words, then if there is a satisfy reply for that it's welcome.
quote:Do you know what Jewish people say about Christianity?
If there were a Jewish here I could reply and also asked them. Posts: 222 | From: Heaven | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: i can write a book saying God is a door knob but that does not make it so. The quran has nothing to do with God regardless of what it says. It has become a vechicle uses by dirty old men to oppress women and keep society poor and uneducated. Time to wake up and smell the coffee
Arrow, would you acknowledge that the Q'uran does have something to do with 'God,' in that it is a belief system that tries to explain 'God'? You may not believe in the scriptures, the source or the message but it is still about 'God' - even if you were to view it as only a fictional work, surely?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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well yes, i can agree with that but the problem comes in when people try to say it is literal truth and impose 8th century social standards on the modern world. What many of these old turds are doing to generations of young Muslim girls is criminal and should be punished by long jail terms. You don't discriminate against people based on their reproductive organs.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: What many of these old turds are doing to generations of young Muslim girls is criminal and should be punished by long jail terms. You don't discriminate against people based on their reproductive organs.
That was not in the Quran, Arrow
That's what humans did....... stupid human commiting crimes..... not what the Quran said
Problem is..... you are buying in the mainstream media they are BREAST FEEDING you everyday ever since you were born....... so no surprise
Why dont you try to do this? Even if you'd hate it......... get a trusted, objective, reliable english translation of the Quarn & read it first before you make unintelligible remarks about it.........
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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The problem is Chinderella that the majority of the muslim street in many of these nations are buying into all of this. I notice for example that most Mosques are segregated by gender. I do not doubt that in the west especially that there are many secularized muslims but you have to come to terms that the religion has been hijacked by other views. Instead of worrying about President Bush you should spend the influence you have trying to check these people and promote change in the middle east. The cold hard facts are that most of the arab street has bought into these ideas. This is the best example of why we must keep religion....all religion, out of government.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: This is the best example of why we must keep religion....all religion, out of government.
Excellent! I wish someone had told that to Bush before he vetoed the stem cell research bill! Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: The problem is Chinderella that the majority of the muslim street in many of these nations are buying into all of this. I notice for example that most Mosques are segregated by gender. I do not doubt that in the west especially that there are many secularized muslims but you have to come to terms that the religion has been hijacked by other views. Instead of worrying about President Bush you should spend the influence you have trying to check these people and promote change in the middle east. The cold hard facts are that most of the arab street has bought into these ideas. This is the best example of why we must keep religion....all religion, out of government.
Well atleast Arrow if you are as knowelgeable as you claim to be, then you shouldnt buy into this like the terrorist muslim does not the muslim street, you're mistaken
Development in the middle east wont start without the help of your president & america........ through peacefull means.... not war means....... simply impeaching our dictator presidents & leaders..... we cant do it but America & its president can. That's why I'm mad at Bush..... he enjoys watching the mideast rot.
Forgot to mention Arrow that you should have read more in the history of the mideast...... the Quran came to the arabs in the ignorance age.... The Jahelya age......... TO REFINE them because before the Quarn they used to be savages & barbaric excluding Christians ofcourse!!!!!
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Servant, just to clear up any possible misunderstandings you may have from this post ... I will NOT be replying to any points you made. Not because I can't, but because I may have discovered who you really are, I don't have proof, but that doesn't matter. It's enough that discussing anything with you is fruitless. You have an agenda which is not opening constructive discussions with Muslims or Non muslims. If you are that person then you will understand exactly what I mean All people of your ilk (Muslim and Non muslim) need help Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: well yes, i can agree with that but the problem comes in when people try to say it is literal truth and impose 8th century social standards on the modern world.....You don't discriminate against people based on their reproductive organs.
...and I can agree with that!
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Servant, just to clear up any possible misunderstandings you may have from this post ... I will NOT be replying to any points you made. Not because I can't, but because I may have discovered who you really are, I don't have proof, but that doesn't matter. It's enough that discussing anything with you is fruitless. You have an agenda which is not opening constructive discussions with Muslims or Non muslims. If you are that person then you will understand exactly what I mean All people of your ilk (Muslim and Non muslim) need help
Again you are talking about me, don't care who am I? Concentrate in what I'm posting and I'm not waiting your replies if you don't like to share us by your opinions, it's up to you.
I don't have any agenda, I'm just chatting and do replies like you, I do posting in the religious forum? Have the moderators mentioned it's only Islamic forum and only Muslims who have to be existing?
What you have discovered my smart friend? Am I the president Bush or the pope?
You don't know that you didn't get stressed until I posted my topic about Quran, have you spoken with who are posting topics degrade Christianity? Aren't you believe in the previous religions as per Quran or the God asked you to believe in a bible exist in another planet? Do you see now the double standards you have?
You don't have to reply for what I posted, because I know there is no reply Posts: 222 | From: Heaven | Registered: Jul 2006
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Servant,I think there aren't enough people here where you can debate with them or giving you a good replies,you can check this link for another forum.
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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If you want to post some interesting information for us about Christianity that would be nice. But to continue posting rubbish that you have cut and paste is not. Yesterday I found a wonderful website belonging to a group of Christians and Muslims, where TOGETHER they post articles about their faiths supporting each other and making peace. They don't poster slanderous things about each other and it's so pleasant to see cooperation between followers from two of God's religions. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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really?? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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