LOL, after all this time you still haven't understood the variance of Albinism? Listen carefully. OCA1, OCA2, OCA3, OCA4, represent multi-tiered levels of Albinism.
If you wish to compare an OCA2 carrier comparable to your European Albino above, scroll over to the thread showing Boris Becker and his mixed wife. Than you will be comparing OCA2 to OCA2, versus what you mistaken attempted to compare, OCA2 to OCA1. Remember, both have to carry the OCA defect to yield and Albino offspring. Also as a rule, remember the eyes are an indicator of melanin density. What do the eyes of your photo say about her melanin density?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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I'm still waiting for you to make a valid point on skin beaching.
Prey tell, how does a few lighter skin females in a predominantly dark skinned population put peer pressure on majority darker toned women, and all because, of nothing but petty "competition between women". Lol meninarmer, he is even under the impression that this is female "competition" that he is describing here.
quote: Feel free to expand the discussion on black male emulations of white males if you wish
I'll feel free to hold your feet to the fire, and not let you distract with meaningless non-sequiturs, like this last failed attempt I'm citing.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I'm still waiting for you to make a valid point on skin beaching.
Prey tell, how does a few lighter skin females in a predominantly dark skinned population put peer pressure on majority darker toned women, and all because, of nothing but petty "competition between women". Lol meninarmer, this is even under the impression that this is female "competition" he is describing here.
quote: Feel free to expand the discussion on black male emulations of white males if you wish
I'll feel free to hold your feet to the fire, and not let you distract with meaningless non-sequiturs, like this last failed attempt I citing.
I understand it if you have never heard the rhymes young black girls recite as they skip rope, or the limericks young black kids tend to recite about skin color. Or the fact young black girls select the white doll over the black one because they perceive the white one is "prettier" and "smarter" than the black one. As I recall, in the study 19 of 24 young black girls choose the white doll. 75%. There are more scientific studies if you really are interested.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Well, in so far as the topic is concerned, re: skin-bleaching, it is obvious that there is more going on here, than a simple matter of 'darker' women looking at 'lighter' toned women, and naturally feeling inadequate, so as to bleach their skins just to emulate them. This would tend to also negate your rationale of women-on-women competition as the driver, because you are clearly suggesting one group already feels disadvantaged and inadequate. This would imply that the group that is being emulated, is already that standard which to attain and the trend-setter. The question is why...if not only coming back to women thinking that there is a trend visible enough, that promotes 'lighter' toned women over the darker counterparts, and that this trend goes hand in hand with sex-appeal to the opposite sex?
I doubt women, such as the example in the photo, would care less how light or dark toned the next woman is, other than concentrate on the need to look as sexually-appealing and appreciated vis-a-vis the beauty standards and trends set by her own society and one which the men of her society judge their women's worth. Yeah, she might compete with the next woman about having a bigger plate, with better decorations, in her mouth, but I imagine, only in so far as it ultimately translates into her being the more attractive, according to her social standards, and hence, in the eyes of the men of her society. These things are interlinked and not separate, as some try to make them out to be. This is the point I sought to relate. The societies wherein "darker" women feel the need to bleach their skin, is not the natural state of their society. However, from external influence, there was enough trend in change of what constitutes beauty and worth of women, that women of these societies have taken it upon themselves to emulate foreign standards of beauty and social prestige by which to bespeak their sense of self-worth, at least in the eyes of society that surrounds them. All too often, this comes along with an observation of a trend(s) in what is perceived as 'hip' and most revered by the opposite sex segment of the society.
I know you cited this, but meninarmer, do you actually understand a word of any of it?
Yes, I did. However, you seek to reduce bleaching to a "Hip trend" or fad, where IMHO (and other professionals) it is much more than this. As I stated before, Bleaching isn't anything new. Black women have been bleaching their skin since slavery, more to do with SELF-HATE, and low self esteem, than a hip fad.
Gee, has it occurred to you to read what is said and precisely how it was said, rather than *make it up*, presumably as a substitute for what you don't understand. I'm guessing that the alternative meaning of "hip" as the "cool" thing hasn't hit you yet. Am I wrong?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: If you wish to compare an OCA2 carrier
Well I'm pretty sure you're going to have to reevaluate your erroneous attempt, being that OCA2 plays a shared role in shaping light and dark pigmentation across the globe
The OCA2 gene, may play a shared role in shaping light and dark pigmentation across the globe, whereas SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR have a predominant role in the evolution of light skin in Europeans.
Which means SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR plays a predominant role in the evolution of pale skin in Europeans, but not Africans or Asians, while OCA2 plays a role in all populations worldwide.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
We have to disagree on the similarities between a cultural custom that sets a standard of tribal beauty, opposed to an cultural inferiority complex developed due to subjugation leading to emulation of the oppressor.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I understand it if you have never heard the rhymes young black girls recite as they skip rope, or the limericks young black kids tend to recite about skin color. Or the fact young black girls select the white doll over the black one because they perceive the white one is "prettier" and "smarter" than the black one. As I recall, in the study 19 of 24 young black girls choose the white doll. 75%. There are more scientific studies if you really are interested.
The moron is describing social-conditioning amongst blacks, presumably living side by side with people of European descent, or societies bombarded with "western" made toys and entertainment products, and other sources of influence. He is essentially fighting some phantom adversary on the issue, because the fact has just be related to his ass. I suppose he is going attribute all this, on women competing against other women, out of the other side of his mouth, after just having been educated on psychological imperialism, which he initially dismissed as "peer pressure" quibbling amongst women.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: If you wish to compare an OCA2 carrier
Well I'm pretty sure you're going to have to reevaluate your erroneous attempt, being that OCA2 plays a shared role in shaping light and dark pigmentation across the globe
The OCA2 gene, may play a shared role in shaping light and dark pigmentation across the globe, whereas SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR have a predominant role in the evolution of light skin in Europeans.
Which means SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR plays a predominant role in the evolution of pale skin in Europeans, but not Africans or Asians, while OCA2 plays a role in all populations worldwide.
What is OCA? What is this mnemonic? You cannot run and hide from this reality.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I understand it if you have never heard the rhymes young black girls recite as they skip rope, or the limericks young black kids tend to recite about skin color. Or the fact young black girls select the white doll over the black one because they perceive the white one is "prettier" and "smarter" than the black one. As I recall, in the study 19 of 24 young black girls choose the white doll. 75%. There are more scientific studies if you really are interested.
The moron is describing social-conditioning amongst blacks, presumably living side by side with people of European descent, or societies bombarded with "western" made toys and entertainment products, and other sources of influence. He is essentially fighting some phantom adversary on the issue, because the fact has just be related to his ass. I suppose he is going attribute all this, on women competing against other women, in the other side of his mouth, after just been educated on psychological imperialism, which he initially dismissed as "peer pressure" quibbling amongst women.
The moron is pretty much rehashing what he has read about African Americans, rather than what he has observed.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I understand it if you have never heard the rhymes young black girls recite as they skip rope, or the limericks young black kids tend to recite about skin color. Or the fact young black girls select the white doll over the black one because they perceive the white one is "prettier" and "smarter" than the black one. As I recall, in the study 19 of 24 young black girls choose the white doll. 75%. There are more scientific studies if you really are interested.
The moron is describing social-conditioning amongst blacks, presumably living side by side with people of European descent, or societies bombarded with "western" made toys and entertainment products, and other sources of influence. He is essentially fighting some phantom adversary on the issue, because the fact has just be related to his ass. I suppose he is going attribute all this, on women competing against other women, in the other side of his mouth, after just been educated on psychological imperialism, which he initially dismissed as "peer pressure" quibbling amongst women.
Hey dummy. If slavery and subjugation hadn't been such a key event in these families lives you might possibly have had a valid point. But as psychiatrist studying the field have accurately revealed, these psychological esteem issues are definitely passed on generation to generation, from mother to daughter. Diversify your research so that you may eventually hold a conversation without looking the fool.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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We have to disagree on the similarities between a cultural custom that sets a standard of tribal beauty,
Define "tribal" and why these folks should not be judged by the same social standards as any other ethnic group?
quote:opposed to an cultural inferiority complex developed due to subjugation leading to emulation of the oppressor.
By this, I take it that you think what you presume to be "tribes" have not been historically subjugated or oppressed?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: What is OCA? What is this mnemonic? You cannot run and hide from this reality.
Dunce,
OCA2 is involved with pigmentation amongst all humans..
The OCA2 gene, may play a shared role in shaping light and dark pigmentation across the globe, whereas SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR have a predominant role in the evolution of light skin in Europeans.
Lightskin in Europeans is a derived state, and a recent occurrence at that, and is predominately determined by mutations amongst SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR genes.
Basic fact..
Skin pigmentation correlates with latitude at the continental level, and humans in northern latitudes needed to decrease in melanin to let in UV and synthesize for Vitamin D.
Question; Europeans only turned pale recently which has been proven on a molecular level, how then do you propose Europeans all of a sudden turning pale after being in Europe for over 30,000 years?
Your answer here______________
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I understand it if you have never heard the rhymes young black girls recite as they skip rope, or the limericks young black kids tend to recite about skin color. Or the fact young black girls select the white doll over the black one because they perceive the white one is "prettier" and "smarter" than the black one. As I recall, in the study 19 of 24 young black girls choose the white doll. 75%. There are more scientific studies if you really are interested.
The moron is describing social-conditioning amongst blacks, presumably living side by side with people of European descent, or societies bombarded with "western" made toys and entertainment products, and other sources of influence. He is essentially fighting some phantom adversary on the issue, because the fact has just be related to his ass. I suppose he is going attribute all this, on women competing against other women, in the other side of his mouth, after just been educated on psychological imperialism, which he initially dismissed as "peer pressure" quibbling amongst women.
The moron is pretty much rehashing what he has read about African Americans, rather than what he has observed.
Don't get distracted. This is why you still do not comprehend OCA. Stay focused. I know it's difficult, but be strong. LOL, you two had better call for some backup.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: What is OCA? What is this mnemonic? You cannot run and hide from this reality.
Dunce,
OCA2 is involved with pigmentation amongst all humans..
The OCA2 gene, may play a shared role in shaping light and dark pigmentation across the globe, whereas SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR have a predominant role in the evolution of light skin in Europeans.
Lightskin in Europeans is a derived state, and a recent occurrence at that, and is predominately determined by mutations amongst SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR genes.
Don't be afraid. Spell it out. The question was not what is in Europeans. The question is; What is OCA?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Hey dummy. If slavery and subjugation hadn't been such a key event in these families lives you might possibly have had a valid point.
Me-in-ass, what does psychological imperialism mean to you? I'm guessing that you think it is a separate entity from social conditioning, no? Plus, by "slavery" are you still referring to the Ghanaians and continental Africans, or Americans?
quote: Diversify your research so that you may eventually hold a conversation without looking the fool.
Well, perhaps if you took your big head out of your ass, you won't see intelligent folks as fools, and understand the words they speak. It also helps in avoiding needless repetition of facts relayed to you, presumably as contentious points. Can we say amen to that?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The question was not what is in Europeans. The question is; What is OCA?
The OCA2 gene which is in question, plays a shared role in shaping light and dark skin across the globe.
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: OCA2 is involved with pigmentation amongst all humans..
The OCA2 gene, may play a shared role in shaping light and dark pigmentation across the globe, whereas SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR have a predominant role in the evolution of light skin in Europeans.
Lightskin in Europeans is a derived state, and a recent occurrence at that, and is predominately determined by mutations amongst SLC24A5, MATP, and TYR genes.
Basic fact..
Skin pigmentation correlates with latitude at the continental level, and humans in northern latitudes needed to decrease in melanin to let in UV and synthesize for Vitamin D.
Question; Europeans only turned pale recently which has been proven on a molecular level, how then do you propose Europeans all of a sudden turning pale after being in Europe for over 30,000 years?
Your answer here______________
^What's taking so long kid?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The question was not what is in Europeans. The question is; What is OCA?
The OCA2 gene which is in question, plays a shared role in shaping light and dark skin across the globe.
OK, I see you will RUN from this all night, if allowed to do so. What you are afraid to say is that OCA stands for;
Oculocutaneous albinism
Any of these words mean anything to you? When you see ALBINISM in a description, do you somehow believe it doesn't mean ALBINISM, as in the genetic defect? In your mind do you believe it being used to describe sometime other than this genetic defect?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: OK, I see you will RUN from this all night, if allowed to do so. What you are afraid to say is that OCA stands for;
Oculocutaneous albinism
Any of these words mean anything to you? When you see ALBINISM in a description, do you somehow believe it doesn't mean ALBINISM, as in the genetic defect? In your mind do you believe it being used to describe sometime other than this genetic defect?
And it plays a shared role in shaping light and dark skin globally, what does this mean to you.
Anyway;
Well kid as I've asked you over and over, simple question; since Europeans only turned pale recently which has been proven on a molecular level, how then do you propose Europeans all of a sudden turning pale after being in Europe for over 30,000 years?
Your answer here______________
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Well kid as I've asked you over and over, simple question; since Europeans only turned pale recently which has been proven on a molecular level, how then do you propose Europeans all of a sudden turning pale after being in Europe for over 30,000 years?
Your answer here______________
Your question is bogus. How could Europeans SUDDENLY display Albinism when Africans had already done so. LOL!! You can run but you can't outrun the genes you carry.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: You question is bogus. How could Europeans SUDDENLY display Albinism when Africans had already done so. LOL!! You can run but you can't outrun the genes you carry.
You're slow.
Europeans actually did not turn pale until recently, which has been proven on a molecular level.
What genetic evidence do you have that says otherwise?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Can you say, OCA2. FYI: The "2" behind "Oculocutaneous albinism" signifies "TYPE 2", which carries the definition of;
caused by a mutation in a gene on chromosome 15, is the most common form of the disorder worldwide. It's more common in Sub-Saharan Africans and African-Americans than in other population groups. In people of African descent, the hair is usually yellow, the eyes are blue-gray or tan, and the skin is white at birth. With sun exposure, the skin may over time develop freckles, moles or lentigines. In some cases, the skin may be light brown, and the hair may be brown, auburn, ginger or red.
In Caucasians with oculocutaneous albinism 2, the hair is usually blond, the skin white and the eyes blue at birth. The hair and eyes may darken. The skin usually develops freckles, moles or lentigines. Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: In Caucasians with oculocutaneous albinism 2,the hair is usually blond, the skin white and the eyes blue at birth. The hair and eyes may darken. The skin usually develops freckles, moles or lentigines. [/i]
Indeed kid, your own source debunks you as always.
This is speaking of albinos amongst the European population, hence IN Caucasians, nowhere saying all Europeans were albinos.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: In Caucasians with oculocutaneous albinism 2 , the hair is usually blond, the skin white and the eyes blue at birth. The hair and eyes may darken. The skin usually develops freckles, moles or lentigines. [/i]
Indeed kid, your own source debunks you as always. [/QB]
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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We have to disagree on the similarities between a cultural custom that sets a standard of tribal beauty,
Define "tribal" and why these folks should not be judged by the same social standards as any other ethnic group?
quote:opposed to an cultural inferiority complex developed due to subjugation leading to emulation of the oppressor.
By this, I take it that you think what you presume to be "tribes" have not been historically subjugated or oppressed?
Lol @ meninarmer. All over the map, with no organized thought whatsoever....
LOL, as you get older and more experience with women you will come to understand that women only dress and make up their complexions for themselves and other women. Men have very little to do with it.
So, a few skin bleaching candidates in a predominantly dark skin African society(s) take it upon themselves to 'bleach" their skins merely for the other women who are not the norm nor majority of the society, and not because of social conditioning that influences perceptions on what supposedly measures or imparts sexual-appeal and prestige by the opposite sex. Largely male-dominated entertainment outlets which market these products in these regions are not responsible for nurturing such social conditioning. "Tribes" are supposedly the only immune ones to this phenomenon.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: ^Too bad for you not all Europeans look like that...
All forms of albinism result from the dysfunction of TYR and/or other melanogenic proteins, which leads to impaired pigmentation of the skin, hair and eyes (50). By its nature, only pigmented tissues are affected; to date, five types of albinism have been defined that map to five distinct pigment-related loci. Mutations in any of those genes impact TYR activity either directly or indirectly : oculocutaneous albinism (OCA) type 1 (TYR) and OCA3 (TYRP1) by leading to proteasomal degradation of TYR, OCA2 (P) and OCA4 (MATP) by disrupting the sorting of functional TYR to melanosomes. OA1 (OA1) impairs melanosome biogenesis and pigmentation by an as yet unknown mechanism and thereby disrupts the production of melanin (51). Yuji Yamaguchi{ddagger}§1, Michaela Brenner{ddagger}, and Vincent J. Hearing{ddagger}2
From the {ddagger}Laboratory of Cell Biology, NCI, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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We have to disagree on the similarities between a cultural custom that sets a standard of tribal beauty,
Define "tribal" and why these folks should not be judged by the same social standards as any other ethnic group?
quote:opposed to an cultural inferiority complex developed due to subjugation leading to emulation of the oppressor.
By this, I take it that you think what you presume to be "tribes" have not been historically subjugated or oppressed?
Lol @ meninarmer. All over the map, with no organized thought whatsoever....
LOL, as you get older and more experience with women you will come to understand that women only dress and make up their complexions for themselves and other women. Men have very little to do with it.
So, a few skin bleaching candidates in a predominantly dark skin African society(s) take it upon themselves to 'bleach" their skins merely for the other women who are not the norm nor majority of the society, and not because of social conditioning that influences perceptions on what supposedly measures or imparts sexual-appeal and prestige by the opposite sex. Largely male-dominated entertainment outlets which market these products in these regions are not responsible for nurturing such social conditioning. "Tribes" are supposedly the only immune ones to this phenomenon.
If you have little or no experience, learned or observed, with women, it's nothing to be ashamed of. You have all the time in the world. Don't rush yourself. Some of us start slower than others.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Like I said, too bad for you not all Europeans are blond haired blue eyed, and as pale as you wish they were, too bad not all Europeans fit those albinos standards but rather might sporadically, as some might have brown hair and blue eyes, blond hair and brown eyes, black hair and green eyes etc.... and then don't fit it at all having brown eyes black hair.
Too bad you can't explain away the fact that skin color correlates with latitude at the cinhtinental level huh?
Too bad you cant explain away the fact that Europeans actually did not turn pale until recently, which has been proven on a molecular level.
Requires a simple answer....
Simple question; since Europeans only turned pale recently which has been proven on a molecular level, how then do you propose Europeans all of a sudden turning pale after being in Europe for over 30,000 years?
Your answer here______________
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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If you have little or no experience, learned or observed, with women, it's nothing to be ashamed of. You have all the time in the world. Don't rush yourself. Some of us start slower than others.
So we are to take it that you have all the experience with continental African women, to express thoughts about them that is all over the map, with no sense of organization to it whatsoever? Which multiple African countries have you stayed in for considerable periods, studying their women for decades, to become such an exquisite expert on them "Black African' women in general?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Like I said, too bad for you not all Europeans are blond haired blue eyed, and as pale as you wish they were, too bad not all Europeans fit those albinos standards but rather might sporadically, as some might have brown hair and blue eyes, blond hair and brown eyes, black hair and green eyes etc.... and then don't fit it at all having brown eyes black hair.
Too bad you can't explain away the fact that skin color correlates with latitude at the cinhtinental level huh?
Too bad you cant explain away the fact that Europeans actually did not turn pale until recently, which has been proven on a molecular level.
Requires a simple answer....
Simple question; since Europeans only turned pale recently which has been proven on a molecular level, how then do you propose Europeans all of a sudden turning pale after being in Europe for over 30,000 years?
Your answer here______________
Not too bad for me MatterAndNoMind Nothing is absolute, and there is known admixture in Europe. As you are aware, Admixture is frantically encouraged in Europe, as well as the US, and for very good reason. Admixture is the sole path to overcoming generational Albinism. However, be aware that as indicated under the OCA2, & 3 descriptions, Albinos have have brown or black hairs and eyes, yet still have albinism. We see this in Boris Becker's two mixed wives.
Be happy you are not of Ashkenazi Jewish descent. Their defects are Albinism combined with many other very serious genetic defects.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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If you have little or no experience, learned or observed, with women, it's nothing to be ashamed of. You have all the time in the world. Don't rush yourself. Some of us start slower than others.
So we are to take it that you have all the experience with continental African women, to express thoughts about them that is all over the map, with no sense of organization to it whatsoever? Which multiple African countries have you stayed in for considerable periods, studying their women for decades, to become such an exquisite expert on them "Black African' women in general?
Not one to brag, but I've had my share, and from the sound of it, part of your share as well. LOL More importantly, it doesn't matter how many African women I've observed. Their use of skin bleach is the same as it is in the USA and can be traced to the same reasons.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Not one to brag, but I've had my share, and from the sound of it, part of your share as well. LOL More importantly, it doesn't matter how many African women I've observed. Their use of skin bleach is the same as it is in the USA and can be traced to the same reasons.
Well, bragger who is "not the one to brag" about experiences he's obviously never had, list them African countries and women you learned this incoherent pattern of information you have about them from.
Meanwhile, like all literacy-challenged quacks, he more often than not cites things that downright contradict him, as this:
quote:The reason for this potentially life-endangering practice is purely vanity. Women who bleach do so because they believe that men prefer their lighter-skinned counterparts. Also, in some African societies light-skinned people are perceived to be more intelligent than those with a darker hue.
He tries to transpose Black American experiences onto Africans, and thereby make generalizations that don't hold water about Africans, such as the supposed skin bleaching being done purely for a few head counts [of fellow women, not men] here and there in predominantly dark skin societies. And when examples are related to him to demonstrate the bankruptcy of this bleaching of skin purely for measuring to just "a few" other women, who are a minority in largely darkly pigmented Women populations, he says that it's because they are "tribal" and so, don't count as candidates who could be studied from a sociological standpoint. Indeed, you are a genius at not formulating a coherent thought.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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LOL, as you get older and more experience with women you will come to understand that women only dress and make up their complexions for themselves and other women. Men have very little to do with it. It's all about the women's sense of self esteem, and how she feels other women we will see her.
Women dress for themselves and each other. Men give themselves far too much credit on affecting a women's appearance.
If these low self-esteem women are going by prestige and beauty standards set by lighter skin counterparts, rather than vice versa, then who supposedly determines the prestige or standards of beauty of the women being "emulated"; do they just spontaneously pop up amongst those [emulated] women themselves, with no insight into social conditioning of how it is measured or valued by their men counterparts?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Women tend to do what what they think it takes to keep their men counterparts interested. So there is plenty of blame to go around. In several societies, both African and non-African, one comes across "lighter toned" personalities ever so more often than the darker counterparts in the television entertainment industry; this trend is for example, seen in Egyptian film industry, Bollywood (Indian concern) and even Hollywood (American concern).
LOL, as you get older and more experience with women you will come to understand that women only dress and make up their complexions for themselves and other women. Men have very little to do with it. It's all about the women's sense of self esteem, and how she feels other women we will see her. Women dress for themselves and each other. Men give themselves far too much credit on affecting a women's appearance.
Credit Meni for the post on Lagos. Up to 77% of women bleach there skin. Wow, that is truly disgusting.
This is utter nonsense. This is like saying almost 8 out of 10 women you see in Lagos are bleaching their skin. What a stupid suppostion.
I was in Lagos just a few weeks ago and MOST women DON'T bleach. However, women who bleach are widely seen just as women who tan (real and spray/fake) in the UK are widely seen.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote: This is utter nonsense. This is like saying almost 8 out of 10 women you see in Lagos are bleaching their skin. What a stupid suppostion.
I was in Lagos just a few weeks ago and MOST women DON'T bleach. However, women who bleach are widely seen just as women who tan (real and spray/fake) in the UK are widely seen.
Its funny because that is what someone who is not intelligent will get from this thread. I don't because I'm intelligent.
Just another example of beatdown African Americans projecting their own insecurities, inferiority complexes, and self-esteem issues onto Africans.
Whites count on people like doug and meninarmer. They spread white propaganda and post their fabricated articles, and make whites out to be gods.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Take note of who is contributing to this braindead thread. The beatdown caterwauling loser AAs like doug and meninarmer.
And
The escapee from the nuthouse who calls himself "The Explorer" (aka "Ma Dick") who hates Africans and changes his screen name and makes believe he's some kind of superhero. LOOOOOOL! : )
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Arwa: That is absolutely correct Meninarmer
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Women tend to do what what they think it takes to keep their men counterparts interested. So there is plenty of blame to go around. In several societies, both African and non-African, one comes across "lighter toned" personalities ever so more often than the darker counterparts in the television entertainment industry; this trend is for example, seen in Egyptian film industry, Bollywood (Indian concern) and even Hollywood (American concern).
LOL, as you get older and more experience with women you will come to understand that women only dress and make up their complexions for themselves and other women. Men have very little to do with it. It's all about the women's sense of self esteem, and how she feels other women we will see her. Women dress for themselves and each other. Men give themselves far too much credit on affecting a women's appearance.
Arwa
I have learned this the hard way.
Women are absolutely ruthless on one another in critiquing each others appearances. Relative to woman to woman critiques, I imagine men are rather easy.
Notice those who feel threaten by the thread are the ones who;
1) Have no women, thus no experience 2) Attracted to white looking women, thus re-enforcing bleaching in blacks 3) Just plain ignorant
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:But as long as images of Western beauty continue to flood African markets and berate the natural black aesthetic, the problem will persist and claim even more lives than ever before.
This is not only incorrect it also offers no self-solution.
Indeed. Aren't you just fed up of people stating problems ad infinitum.
The solution is to be found (put) in the mind of the Africans. We need a change of mentality. The solution is that simple in theory. However, in practice it is difficult because it means taking physical command of the ideas and images available to us(TV, adverts, religion, government, etc.).
Real talk.
Also, don't think this is anymore affective than arguing on the 'net, but more people with freed minds like us settin' em free in person helps too. A freed mind when faced with rigid self-contradictory beliefs, freedom of the mind seems to be contagious.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Are you suggesting that 'black women' in general, just so happen to think 'white women' are superior
From an American perspective on a psychological level I'd say that would be pretty rare.
I do see menin's point as do you though. That societal standards are, well, passed on socially and by anyone and women do compete.
Homo-sexual (don't know any other way to put it) competition of either sex usually results from not having a good grasp of what it is the other sex really fancies and seeing role-models (don't know any other way to put it) of the same sex as the blueprint for what people of that sex should be and what the other sex is after.
Case in point, at around the time Beyonce first came out and prior alot of white girls and some black girls (even in the "ghetto") saw things as skinny vs fat and would think skinny women were the norm desire of most men.
Now thanks to hip hop videos they know that phat&slim are simplistic and don't matter just as what people and some gay guys have traditionally deemed attractive for womens.
Then again I'm talkin about teenagers to young adults. As for what menin said about them completely disregarding male views, that depends on the person, time and place (not just physical location but mental).
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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Credit Meni for the post on Lagos. Up to 77% of women bleach there skin. Wow, that is truly disgusting.
This is utter nonsense. This is like saying almost 8 out of 10 women you see in Lagos are bleaching their skin. What a stupid suppostion.
I was in Lagos just a few weeks ago and MOST women DON'T bleach. However, women who bleach are widely seen just as women who tan (real and spray/fake) in the UK are widely seen.
That makes more sense.
I wouldn't have even taken that other mess with a grain of salt.
The escapee from the nuthouse who calls himself "The Explorer" (aka "Ma Dick") who hates Africans and changes his screen name and makes believe he's some kind of superhero. LOOOOOOL! : )
Spoken like a non-African slave; a common theme of cotton pickin slaves, is to doubt the "real" Africans.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I do see menin's point as do you though. That societal standards are, well, passed on socially and by anyone and women do compete.
I don't profess to know the psych of Black American women, but in Africa, as the article -- that meninarmer himself posted as the intro -- correctly notes, those women who bleach their skins, primarily do so, because they think it increases their sexual appeal to the opposite sex. These individuals are not the norm of the society, there are a great many other people who do not bleach their skins. No doubt, there is observation amongst sections of some cosmopolitan areas of Africa, bombarded with "western" marketed or influenced skin & hair products and entertainment concerns, wherein some perceive that there is a trend in African men going for lighter-toned females than the darker ones or favoritism towards lighter-toned females in the very industries [marketing industries/concerns for cosmetics and clothing, not to mention the entertainment industry itself] that promote aforementioned products, and so, some turn to unhealthy means to supposedly rectify this, by seeking artificial skin lightning and hair straightening products. Considerably light-toned people are not the norm in predominantly dark skin African societies, and so, it makes no sense, to perceive this as "peer pressure" competition amongst women of said societies; if anything, they'd be frowned upon, because they are a minority...likely, dismissed as outcasts of 'white-person' wannabes, if it were simply a matter of women doing it for other women, as opposed to the few who do it, as a means to augment their sexual appeal or worth to the opposite sex or industry (usually there as "western manufactured" product outlets) that are largely controlled by the opposite sex.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Those who somehow convince themselves there is some kind of barrier or separation between African American and African experience symptoms of Post Traumatic Slave/Colonization Syndrome may be motivated to take this myopic stance to several reasons. There is no doubt of the parallel similarities of the American and African experience under European racism and it's traumatic effects on African and African American alike, and in some cases, forming a "colorized" mindset.
In America, during slavery, darker skinned Africans usually ended up in the field while lighter skinned slaves were deployed as servants in the big house. The Field and house Negroes we hear so much about. This formed a system of color hierarchy where the lighter the skin, the higher up in the hierarchy these Negroes found themselves placed. In Africa, during colonial periods, Africa deployed a caste system, with whites at the top, followed by Indians, coloreds, and blacks. Coloreds, of course were the lighter skinned blacks. The question is weather the lingering effects of these color based systems carries on in today's blacks, American and African, who use bleaching agents to lighten their black skins.
A bleaching Agent Ad run in South Africa
If you compare the "lightened" images if the African man and women in the Ad, they follow the same appearance typically chosen as model images in popular Black American media which gains worldwide exposure such as, Ebony, Jet, B.E.T., Radio-One TV, etc., which propagate these messages of lightened success to black youth worldwide.
US Skin Bleaching Ad
This was best illustrated in Spike Lee's 1988 film "School Daze" in the scene played out in a beauty parlor between the "jiggaboos," otherwise known as the darker-skinned Blacks with nappy hair, and the "wannabe's," the lighter-skinned Blacks with straight often times weaved hair. But who could forget the film version of Alice Walker's novel "The Color Purple" in which Mister asked for Nettie who was "chocolate" colored with long hair but was given Celie, who was dark-skinned with nappy and short coarse hair, instead. This was followed by a grown-up Celie dealing with the harsh realities of beauty and Mista's in-house mistress Shug Avery.
Then you had Black sororities and fraternities who used the "brown paper bag test" to deny entrance to anyone darker than the bag.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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The escapee from the nuthouse who calls himself "The Explorer" (aka "Ma Dick") who hates Africans and changes his screen name and makes believe he's some kind of superhero. LOOOOOOL! : )
Spoken like a non-African slave; a common theme of cotton pickin slaves, is to doubt the "real" Africans.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Those who somehow convince themselves there is some kind of barrier or separation between African American and African experience
Then those who convince themselves as such would pristinely include you. If as you say, that women's skin bleaching is driven by "peer pressure" to please other women, then you have tacitly concluded that it is a different experience from the "dark skin" African women who do it to enhance their sexual appeal to men, and entertainment and marketing industry largely controlled by their men counterparts but which usually use female "models" or "actresses" to promote certain products.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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There are many examples of non-Western standards of beauty that have been affected and influenced by those of the West. In these non-Western examples, a preference for Western standards has surfaced. Here we will look at some of the most obvious and extreme elements: skin bleaching and plastic surgery.
The act of skin bleaching by darker-skinned populations is the first case of interest. I first became aware of it while living in New York City. Friends of mine from South Asia first told me that it was common in their communities to use "skin lightening creams" to bleach their skin. I quickly learned that it is not just practiced by East Indians, but by South East Asians, and West Indians as well. Alex Haley even makes mention of African-Americans using skin bleach in The Autobiography of Malcolm X.
This derived interest in whiter skin can be seen the world over. Another example can be seen in non-Western companies which use Western and Western-looking models to advertise their products to non-Western populations. According to Angela Mak’s research in China, "whiter/lighter are preferred facial skin colors for Chinese females in magazine advertisements" (97). In Japan, "Western celebrities appear prominently in the Japanese advertising media as spokespersons for various products, especially those carrying a certain level of status appeal, [i.e.] luxury items" (Engstrom 20). And in Ghana, beauty salons "use light [skinned] women... in their advertisements … [though] the majority of these pictures don’t represent the average Ghanaian woman" (Chisholm).
Westerners and "whiteness" are thus associated with luxury and status. According to N. Chisholm’s Village Voice article, "Skin Bleaching and the Rejection of Blackness", in West Africa, "the lighter you are, the more attractive and financially secure you must be." She also contends that skin bleaching is a largescale problem in the region despite several countries having banned the creams.
The other most extreme illustration of this trend of non-Western populations borrowing from Western standards of beauty can be seen in the increasing frequency of surgical operations which altogether alter the ethnic appearance of recipients. This is particularly common in East Asia and East Asian populations in places like North America.
Skin bleaching is a little clearer cut in its origins, especially in West Africa, since it started in the 1500s as the Europeans came and colonized (Chisholm).
In Africa, the practice of skin-whitening is traditionally associated with white colonial oppression . Those who practiced skin-whitening, were and are still condemned as self-hating dupes, suffering from an inferiority complex. Consequently, those engaging in this practice often do so covertly. So it is only when users of skin-whitening seek medical help from the devastating effects of bodily damage caused by the use of toxic skin-whitening creams that news about this practice gets to the public domain. Tsitsi Dangarembga's novel Nervous Conditions (1988) succinctly captures the contradiction between the colonizing effects of white supremacy and African women's yearning for respectability and idealized feminine aesthetics of beauty.
The 'ethnic' skin-whitening market around the world is decentralized as well being covert. This is because many of the skin-whitening products which target poor women, particularly black women, including women of colour living in North America and Europe, are relatively cheap but often contain highly toxic chemical agents such as mercury, hydroquinone and corticosteroids.
Those who somehow convince themselves there is some kind of barrier or separation between African American and African experience
Then those who convince themselves as such would pristinely include you. If as you say, that women's skin bleaching is driven by "peer pressure" to please other women, then you have tacitly concluded that it is a different experience from the "dark skin" African women who do it to enhance their sexual appeal to men, and entertainment and marketing industry largely controlled by their men counterparts but which usually use female "models" or "actresses" to promote certain products.
You think too small. Expand your mind and don't be limited by thinking small. The desire to impress others is a symptom where you stop your thinking. Symptoms are created by a catalyst. This is what this thread is about.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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In Africa, during colonial periods, Africa deployed a caste system, with whites at the top, followed by Indians, coloreds, and blacks.
This is incorrect. Africa did not deploy said hierarchy. Invaders of conquest enforced these against the locals, sometimes as part of the divide and conquer policy. You need to distinguish aboriginal Africans from invasive elements. You need to step your foot on the African continent, instead of allowing yourself to be uncritically spoon fed by your largely "white" controlled mass media, which you seem to think you are psychologically free from. No doubt, it is this lack of mental liberation that leads you to dismiss African ethnic diversity as "tribalism" and one which cannot be studied sociologically as any other human society. You are not as free from 'white' mental slavery as you might think.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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A freed mind when faced with rigid self-contradictory beliefs, freedom of the mind seems to be contagious.
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