posted
^Needless to say, those false Hebrews - the Khazar Jews - are scared sh1tless!
After further delays, public interest attorney William John Cox undertook representation of an "undisclosed client," who had provided a complete set of the unpublished photographs, and contracted for their publication. Professors Robert Eisenman and James Robinson indexed the photographs and wrote an introduction to A Facsimile Edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which was published by the Biblical Archaeology Society in 1991. As a result, the "secrecy rule" was lifted.
Following the publication of the Facsimile Edition, Professor Elisha Qimron sued Hershel Shanks, Eisenman, Robinson and the Biblical Archaeology Society for copyright infringement of one of the scrolls, which he deciphered (MMT). The District Court of Jerusalem found in favor of Qimron in September 1993. The Court issued a restraining order, which prohibited the publication of the deciphered text, and ordered defendants to pay Qimron NIS 100,000 for infringing his copyright and the right of attribution. Defendants appealed the Supreme Court of Israel, which approved the District Court's decision, in August 2000. The Supreme Court further ordered that the defendants hand over to Qimron all the infringing copies. The decision met Israeli and international criticism from copyright law scholars.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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A "logical conclusion" about an ancient people you've never met that lacks supporting evidence. How does that work?
quote: I made no claim that they spoke Hebrew.
Well, then why did you even bother replying me, as I said there was no evidence that they spoke Hebrew to begin with?
quote: Logically - there's that word again:
They spoke Anatolian, Sumerian, Canaanite, Egyptian, and Aramean. Perhaps Hebrew is a composite of those languages, don't know, don't care.
Let me guess. Aside from possibly Egyptic, since the Hyksos were in ancient Egypt, you simply "logically" came to the conclusion that they spoke all these languages out of thin air, with no supporting evidence whatsoever. Right?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by bozo the clown: ^You fucking stupid asinine piece-of-sh1t wannabe forum scholar.
And you are a fucking stupid asinine heritageless piece-of-shyt that some white master pooped out and forgot in a slave barn. So what's your beef? That you are full of pork? LOL
quote: The Amorites started out in Anatolia - they spoke Anatolian.
What connection does this have to my post, you big clueless fruitcake?
quote: They established a dynasty in Sumer - they had to speak Akkaidian/Sumerian.
Relevence? you big sissy. Meaning, what evidence do you have connecting the "Hyksos" to a dynasty in Sumer, speaking that language? And your crack triggered faith-based "epiphanies" that you like to call "logical" does not count.
quote: They established themselves in Canaan and integrated with the Canaanites - they had to speak Canaanite.
"Canaanite" is not a language, you dumb uneducated slave.
quote: They lived in Egypt for hundreds of years - they had to speak Egyptian.
I already told your big sissy ass this, regarding the Hyksos. Learn to take a cue.
quote: They established a successor state called Aram - they had to speak Aramean.
Evidence? you stupid little fruity sap!
quote:
What a stupid uneducated little piece of sh1t you are, and YOU want to challenge????
Of course, I care to challenge you, goofball. Who doesn't. You are a Europeanized fuckheaded sap without a heritage. How can you not get that?
quote: That only proves just how stupid you are!
Where's this pending proof? Can you alert me to how a heritageless ape like you has miraculously managed to "prove" that it is actually possible for anyone else to be more stupid than you are.
quote:
BTW - Have you at least learned to respond to me in a respectful way?
Oh yes. Your safe-behind-the-keyboard internet etiquette tells me that you have no human home training. It also tells me that you are one of those cases of out-of-wedlock birth, and could only have come out of a prostitution mecca, which to dumb down to you, is my catchword for your mommy's dirty little fuckhole. Is that "respectful" enough for you?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: Has anyone else noticed that several Hebrew characters in the Bible had relationships with black women? First, there's Joseph marrying an Egyptian. Then there's Moses marrying a Kushite. Third, there's King Solomon with the Queen of Sheba. It seems like there's a trend here.
Does anyone else know if there are other instances of Hebrew men with black women in the Bible?
From my research there was never a thing called "hebrew" during the time of those people of the bible i.e. Solomon, David, Jacob etc. They were the Hyksos that ruled northern egypt. Also from the stela in Egypt you see of Hyksos they were a mixed group of people black, white and mullatos from caanan I presume. It is highly possible that these rulers/prophets were just as black as the women they purportedly loved.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
OP,I must ask what was your original intent? To question the presence of black women in the bible or the African nature of the Hebrews? Both questions have been settled beyond any reasonable doubt. You must have heard of the Lemba,a Southern Bantu people who if geneticists are to be believed have more of the priestly Cohen gene than the Khazars. Even in Kenya the Kalenjin have a very strong case for Hebrew origins
quote:
:Moses' Levites performed a mass ritual at Gilgal just before crossing the Jordan. Sambu writes: "[The Kalenjin] did not name the [corresponding] hill Gilgal.
But... it is interesting to note that one of the places the [Kalenjin] occupied twice while wandering in the plains [of the Rift Valley] was Gilgil."
Which Kenyan has never heard of Gilgil, the thriving trade centre between the lakes Naivasha and Elmentaita?
The Israelites then crossed a river called Jordan to take Jericho, just as the Kipsigiis crossed a river called Chooryan to take Kericho.
What can it mean? We now pronounce the "ch" in "Jericho" like the "k" in "Kenya". But the native Jebusites — a clan of the Canaanite natives — pronounced it like the "ch" in "church".
Jericho, therefore, rhymed with Kericho. Moreover, in the Kalenjin language, "k" is usually pronounced like a hard "g".
Kericho, therefore, may originally have been Gericho (which is not at all far from Jericho.) What a small world ours is!
The only question is: Who borrowed from whom?
The near-identity between Pisgah and Psigiis, Gilgal and Gilgil, Yordan and Chooryan, Jericho and Kericho, etc., and the circumstances in which those terms occur affirm at least a historical confluence. http://www.afroarticles.com/article-dashboard/Article/Kalenjin--Another-lost-tribe-of-Israel-/211006 In W.Africa the Yorubas and Ibos informed the first missionaries of their Hebrew history-unsurprisingly they suppressed the info. Those Africans,the world and the Khazars accept as black African Jews are seeing the true face of the Neanderthal Caucasoid chosenites.
quote:
NAZARETH, Israel // Health officials in Israel are subjecting many female Ethiopian immigrants to a controversial long-term birth control drug in what Israeli women’s groups allege is a racist policy to reduce the number of black babies.
The contraceptive, known as Depo Provera, which is given by injection every three months, is considered by many doctors as a birth control method of last resort because of problems treating its side effects. http://abbaymedia.com/News/?p=3491Posts: 55 | From: nairobi | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: There is not an iota of evidence of Hebrews in dynastic Egypt before and in the supposed time frame of the Biblical exodus. There is not even a physical evidence of Moses as characterized by the bible, who has a European-corrupted Egyptian name.
There is no evidence of "Hebrew slaves" in dynastic Egypt before and during said time either.
There is no evidence that the Hyksos spoke Hebrew.
It's interesting how contemporary Jewish personalities today don't notice how strange the narrative is, to say that the Hebrew were slaves at the time of building the great pyramids, presumably because they were the slaves who were forced to build them, yet somehow managed to turn into rulers in the Hyksos--in the Delta region mostly--period from petty slaves, and then right back to slaves right before their exodus.
Hebrews were just a sub-group that was part of the Hyksos domination of Nothern Egypt. They were simply conquered by Southern Egypt after the latter assimilated Hyksos technology (Horses and Charriots).
And yes, Hyksos were enslaved but keep in mind that they had enslaved the indigenous Egyptians first.
As for Mike's point about Egyptians forgetting who they were. Not sure where this comes from. People who were not Egyptians would think the Hyksos were Egyptian because they dressed it and followed Egyptian customs.
For example, the Medjay were a Black Nubian Warrior group that protected Egypt. Medjay itself is a name of a land in Upper Nubia. However, Medjay stopped being a term used for Nubian-Egyptian soldiers and became a catch all that included non-African warriors in later periods. Terms are flexible. Just like today, African Americans are called American even though this is a White nation. We are called American because that is our culture and our home. Nationality does not equate to race just like there are White and Black Mexicans. The same can be said of Egypt by this time period. There were by this time White, Brown, and Black Egyptians.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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Hebrews were just a sub-group that was part of the Hyksos domination of Nothern Egypt.
You are not getting it: There is no evidence of "Hebrews" in AE before and during the so-called Exodus, let alone them forming "part of the Hyksos domination".
quote: They were simply conquered by Southern Egypt after the latter assimilated Hyksos technology (Horses and Charriots).
If the Hyksos rose to power because of those weapons that the AE eventually adopted, then they must not have been the petty slaves who supposedly helped build the pyramids just prior. Bet you never take that bit of information into consideration, huh, when you come up with neat little stories about the Hyksos being petty slaves right before assuming power and then reduced back to petty slaves?
quote: And yes, Hyksos were enslaved but keep in mind that they had enslaved the indigenous Egyptians first.
When did the Hyksos "enslave the indigenous Egyptians", and according to what evidence?
quote: Medjay itself is a name of a land in Upper Nubia.
According to what?
quote:However, Medjay stopped being a term used for Nubian-Egyptian soldiers and became a catch all that included non-African warriors in later periods.
Again, evidence!
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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However, Medjay stopped being a term used for Nubian-Egyptian soldiers and became a catch all that included non-African warriors in later periods. Are you going by that rather silly movie the The Mummy??
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Explorer the only thing I could think of is the name of a king called Yakub Har which is Semitic but not specifically Hebrew,I guess that equals the name Joseph a traditional Hebrew name but what do they make of the name Nahasi a king who ruled the delta during the Hyksos period.
quote:You are not getting it: There is no evidence of "Hebrews" in AE before and during the so-called Exodus, let alone them forming "part of the Hyksos domination".
posted
Well, that the Hyksos could have been Semitic speakers is not much of an issue. However, that they were "Hebrews", that remains an issue.
BTW, on what records was this Yakub Har (Yakub Baal) mentioned?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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If I remember correctly it was Menetho's king list I first became aware of this in Bernal's Black Athena.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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If it is authentic, then one would expect it to be duplicated in prior kings list, as have been in many cases. Can you vouch for that?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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From what I have read/listened to on the net is that the biblical people such as David, Solomon, yakob (jacob) were the Hyksos. SUPPOSEDLY the names are not 100% the same however life events match up with the biblical accounts. For example they said you wont find a David among the hyksos but you will find a Hyksos king whose life matches up with David. You also wont find a Solomon but you will find someone with a similar name. however the religion those people believed in really doesn't make up with the religion of the Jews. I don't believe the term Hebrew was being used back then nor was the term Jew. I have not looked to deep into the subject though so I could be wrong. I don't think its to hard to believe, I mean Christianity seems to be a extension of the Osirian religion (again from what I have read, have not research this thoroughly yet). Not hard to believe the present day Jews cooped their present religion based off of whatever the Hyksos/Egyptians believed mixed in with some Mesopotamian/caaninite beliefs.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Zioncity: Its way too many people stroking each others egos on this forum. And disrespectful **** talking responses that would get you punched in the mouth or a foot up your ass in real life. I thought knowledge was suppose to come with some type of humbleness? I expect that from white boys because they use the internet to voice the frustrations that dont have the balls to address in person but black men should know better.
this is the best post in the whole dam thread.... Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: From what I have read/listened to on the net is that the biblical people such as David, Solomon, yakob (jacob) were the Hyksos. SUPPOSEDLY the names are not 100% the same however life events match up with the biblical accounts. For example they said you wont find a David among the hyksos but you will find a Hyksos king whose life matches up with David. You also wont find a Solomon but you will find someone with a similar name.
I'm not sure how these were pulled off, when very little in detail is generally known about the Hyksos, aside from relics here and there, particularly at their capital in Avaris.
quote: however the religion those people believed in really doesn't make up with the religion of the Jews.
Indeed.
quote: I don't believe the term Hebrew was being used back then nor was the term Jew.
The advocates of a Hebraic Hyksos generally believe that the etymology of 'Hebrew' can be sought out in Dynastic Egypt before the so-called Exodus. The problem here is that many of the terms explained off as such turn out to have highly tenuous and questionable links with the term "Hebrew". And even if the term for "Hebrew" was not used during the Hyksos era, that doesn't excuse why evidence of Hebraic language in Dynastic Egypt dating to the Hyksos period has not been brought forth.
quote: I have not looked to deep into the subject though so I could be wrong. I don't think its to hard to believe, I mean Christianity seems to be a extension of the Osirian religion (again from what I have read, have not research this thoroughly yet). Not hard to believe the present day Jews cooped their present religion based off of whatever the Hyksos/Egyptians believed mixed in with some Mesopotamian/caaninite beliefs.
There is no apparent link between Hyksos and Judaism that has been brought to my attention. Nor is there any reason for "Hyksos" to be used interchangeably with "Egyptians". Sure, it is reasonable to expect the roots of Judaism to be sought in Egypt, since Jewish identity heavily relies on Jewish biblical narratives, which in turn places them in Egypt before their settlement in the Levant. As such, it is reasonable to examine connections between Jewish biblical traditions and AE politics and cosmological systems, as well as those of the Canaanite Levant. These two geographical elements would have helped shape contemporary Jewish identity.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Wiki said it corresponds with the Turin Papyrus The list also is believed to contain kings from the 15th Dynasty, which were the Hyksos ruling Lower Egypt and the Delta. Although the Hyksos rulers do not have cartouches, a hieroglyphic sign is added to indicate that they were foreigners. Typically on King Lists foreign rulers are not listed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_King_List
The name does not appear on the Turin papyrus as it appears to have been damage or lost as many others were lost, but names such as Salitis and Khayan do appeared in both.
Explorer
quote:If it is authentic, then one would expect it to be duplicated in prior kings list, as have been in many cases. Can you vouch for that?
posted
Okay, if the name doesn't appear on the Turin King list, then why refer to it?
So you say that "Salitis and Khayan do appeared in both". These names appeared in "both" what? And what about the name Yakub Har or Yakub Baal. I mean, like you said, these names will only suggest that the said people were likely Semitic speakers, and that's just about it, should they actually be Hyksos names.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Both the Menetho King's list and the Turin Papyrus list,other names that have not been damaged or lost matches up, keeping mind the Turin papyrus is older.
quote:Okay, if the name doesn't appear on the Turin King list, then why refer to it? So you say that "Salitis and Khayan do appeared in both". These names appeared in "both" what?
posted
Okay, let me see if I understand you correctly.
1) You are saying that the names "Salitis" and "Khayan" appear on both the Manetho Kings list and the Turin Kings list. Right?
2) You are also saying that the name "Yakub Har" (Yakub Baal) does not appear on the Turin Kings list. Correct?
Now, if #1 is correct, then why does one not find these names on the Turin list, according to data given in your cited link?
If you say that it is because the places wherein they are supposed to be listed are damaged, then you have no evidence that these names where listed in there, do you? If you disagree, then what evidence are you going by, to say that the names you don't find on the Turin Kings list, were actually once on the list?
And now for question #2:
If the name Yakub Har doesn't appear on the Turin King's list, then wouldn't that be a self-defeating move?...since it proves nothing.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:If the name Yakub Har doesn't appear on the Turin King's list, then wouldn't that be a self-defeating move?...since it proves nothing.
This list is from another source other than wiki the name does appear but no dates Fifteenth Dynasty The Fifteenth Dynasty arose from among the Hyskos people: desert Bedouins who emerged out of the Fertile Crescent (modern Iraq) to establish a short-lived governance over the northern Nile region, and ruled from 1674 to 1535 BC. Name Comments Dates Sheshi Ruled either 1 or 3 years 1674- ? Yakubher - ? Khyan - 30-40 Years Apepi I - 40 Years or more Khamudy - ? -1535
Meruserre King Yakub-Her's throne name (seen within a cartouche in picture to the right) means - "Strong is the Love of Re". Practically nothing is known from the reign of this king (sometimes called Yakobner) and it's doubtful if he has left any remain beside being mentioned in king list written 1500 years after his time on the throne. His Aramean name is related to the biblical Jacob, and has made some groups see this as "evidence" that the Hyksos people were the Israelites. This theory has of course no scientific value. He is by some thought to fit into one of the gaps in the 14th dynasty along with some 11 other rulers with Hyksos names not present in the Canon of Turin. He seems in that case to place at the end of that dynasty, and if he is from dynasty 15 his reign might be 8 years around 1634-1626 BC. His remains are from scarab-seals only (about two dozens) found mostly in Egypt, but also a few from Palestine and a single one from Nubia in the south. http://aregy.blogspot.com/ " target="_blank">http://www.ancient-egypt-history.com/2010_08_01_archive.html http://home.utah.edu/~rld13760/scarabs.html Did not find his original seal only this for now
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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I have not found any of your Hyksos names on the Manetho list, which are generally based on several individuals who presumably copied his work later on.
In the Turin list, only the Kamudi name appears therein, from the list of names you have provided.
This then begs the question of what you are relying on to come up with a Hyksos name under YakubHer.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I have access to the list of names under Turin papyrus and the Manetho list "compilations" by Eusebius, Africanus, and Flavius. None of these compilations reveal the names of Hyksos kings. I've already told you about that one name, Khamudi, found on the Turin king list; that's it.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Ok I will dig some more later, I am trying to find his seal in the original state and not a repo.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Okay, I dug around further, and this is what I came up with, courtesy of Gary Greenberg:
Africanus:
Hyksos Kings-
Saites 19 Years Bnon 44 Years Pachnan 61 Years Staan 50 Years Archles 49 Years Aphophis 61 Years
Josephus
Hyksos Kings-
Saites 19 Years Bnon 44 Years Apachnan 36 Years, 7 mos. Aphophis 61 Years Iannas 50 Years, 1 mo. Assis 49 Years
Eusebius
Hyksos Kings-
Saites 19 Years Bnon 40 Years Archles 30 Years ** Aphophis 14 Years **
If there is more to be found on the Kings lists that I haven't mentioned, I'd welcome them being brought to my attention, along with the names of the sources and kings list. But for now, these are the names I can get my hands on from Manetho "compilations"...and still no sign of 'YakubHer'!
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: From what I have read/listened to on the net is that the biblical people such as David, Solomon, yakob (jacob) were the Hyksos. SUPPOSEDLY the names are not 100% the same however life events match up with the biblical accounts. For example they said you wont find a David among the hyksos but you will find a Hyksos king whose life matches up with David. You also wont find a Solomon but you will find someone with a similar name.
I'm not sure how these were pulled off, when very little in detail is generally known about the Hyksos, aside from relics here and there, particularly at their capital in Avaris.
quote: however the religion those people believed in really doesn't make up with the religion of the Jews.
Indeed.
quote: I don't believe the term Hebrew was being used back then nor was the term Jew.
The advocates of a Hebraic Hyksos generally believe that the etymology of 'Hebrew' can be sought out in Dynastic Egypt before the so-called Exodus. The problem here is that many of the terms explained off as such turn out to have highly tenuous and questionable links with the term "Hebrew". And even if the term for "Hebrew" was not used during the Hyksos era, that doesn't excuse why evidence of Hebraic language in Dynastic Egypt dating to the Hyksos period has not been brought forth.
quote: I have not looked to deep into the subject though so I could be wrong. I don't think its to hard to believe, I mean Christianity seems to be a extension of the Osirian religion (again from what I have read, have not research this thoroughly yet). Not hard to believe the present day Jews cooped their present religion based off of whatever the Hyksos/Egyptians believed mixed in with some Mesopotamian/caaninite beliefs.
There is no apparent link between Hyksos and Judaism that has been brought to my attention. Nor is there any reason for "Hyksos" to be used interchangeably with "Egyptians". Sure, it is reasonable to expect the roots of Judaism to be sought in Egypt, since Jewish identity heavily relies on Jewish biblical narratives, which in turn places them in Egypt before their settlement in the Levant. As such, it is reasonable to examine connections between Jewish biblical traditions and AE politics and cosmological systems, as well as those of the Canaanite Levant. These two geographical elements would have helped shape contemporary Jewish identity.
Explorer before we start, let me say I have not thoroughly investigated the Hyksos yet so what I am speaking on is what I have gathered from this book or that book.
Now, as I understand it, Jewish historical scholars agree the Jewish language, "Hebrew" is a pidgin language and was later development. By later development I mean it was not formed until MUCH later after the exodus from Kmt, so it wouldn't have been present in Ancient Egypt. My understand is, just as the Hyksos were a mixed group of people coming into ancient Egypt, they were a mixed group coming out of egypt and as such a pidgin language naturally formed around that community.
Also, the religion that is practiced today by those calling themselves Jews was not present during the time the "Jews", for lack of a better word, were in "captivity" in Egypt. The present day religion of Judaism was formed in its present incarnation in a few phases (again from what I have heard historians of that religion speak on). You have the phase when they left Egypt and stoped worshiping Apis, or what I assume was Apis (the golden calf). Some one from Kmt, i.e. "Moses" then gave them monotheism (maybe the religion of Akheneton)? Then you have a second phase when they came out of captivity and their holy books were then actually written out (wasn't written before this time). At that time supposedly things changed a bit because of their long captivity and because of supposed political pressure from the Persians. You then have further development during the time of the Romans and then again in the middle ages in Europe.
I don't pretend to be a scholar on ANY of this, I am just parroting what I heard some authors say/hypothesis. Supposedly (on the word of these authors) Manetho and Josephus both attributed the development of what would become Hebrews/Jews to the Hyksos.
Some of these scholars have also attributed "Zion" to the town in Kmt called Zoan (spelling). From my understanding there also isnt ANY physical evidence of a ancient state of Israel. They said when you dig down to the time Israel supposedly existed you find little more than huts and what looks to be small villages in the areas.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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Now, as I understand it, Jewish historical scholars agree the Jewish language, "Hebrew" is a pidgin language and was later development. By later development I mean it was not formed until MUCH later after the exodus from Kmt, so it wouldn't have been present in Ancient Egypt.
But it was "re-created" predicated on an ancient existence of "Hebrew" as a language in its own right. Advocates of the "Hebraic Hyksos" don't treat Hebrew as a contemporary development.
quote: My understand is, just as the Hyksos were a mixed group of people coming into ancient Egypt
From what source?
quote: , they were a mixed group coming out of egypt and as such a pidgin language naturally formed around that community.
There is no evidence that the Hyksos spoke a "pidgin language", at least none that has been brought to my attention, and there is no evidence that the decline of Hyksos power is coincidental with the "Exodus". In fact, there is a considerable gap between time frames of the decline of the Hyksos and that implicated in biblical traditions of the "Exodus".
quote: Also, the religion that is practiced today by those calling themselves Jews was not present during the time the "Jews"
This actually shoots down biblical traditions of their eponymous Hebraic ancestors, according to which, the belief in a single divine supreme being has always been in the Jewish lineage.
quote: , for lack of a better word, were in "captivity" in Egypt. The present day religion of Judaism was formed in its present incarnation in a few phases (again from what I have heard historians of that religion speak on). You have the phase when they left Egypt and stoped worshiping Apis, or what I assume was Apis (the golden calf). Some one from Kmt, i.e. "Moses" then gave them monotheism (maybe the religion of Akheneton)?
One that comes to mind that links "Israelite" origins to Akhenaten school of spirituality is the work of Gary Greenberg. IMO, he makes a pretty convincing case for how the Israelites originated from a sect of Egyptians shortly after Akhenaten's demise from cross-referencing biblical narratives with archeological evidence and Egyptic texts, and how their native Egyptian ideas later on molded with Canaanite ideas to create a new identity under 'Israelites', along with what was to develop into Abrahamic religion of Judaism.
quote:Then you have a second phase when they came out of captivity and their holy books were then actually written out (wasn't written before this time). At that time supposedly things changed a bit because of their long captivity and because of supposed political pressure from the Persians. You then have further development during the time of the Romans and then again in the middle ages in Europe.
That Hebraic biblical texts were generally written after the presumed facts of the bible, is not in doubt.
quote: I don't pretend to be a scholar on ANY of this, I am just parroting what I heard some authors say/hypothesis. Supposedly (on the word of these authors) Manetho and Josephus both attributed the development of what would become Hebrews/Jews to the Hyksos.
Where did Manetho link the Hebrews to Hyksos ancestry?
quote: From my understanding there also isnt ANY physical evidence of a ancient state of Israel.
Actually, there are actual archaeological evidence of an ancient state of Israel in the form of inscriptions with Israelite King lists. The name for Israel in fact also appears in Egyptian record sometime after the Merneptah era, where the name first appears in history.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Jewish folklore has it that a voice from heaven (bat qol) declared everything that Ribbi Eli`ezer said was correct.
Fig 1 Three "chief elders" of the Judaean city Lachish bow before Sennacherib. From James B. Pritchard's THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST VOL I net copyright 1997 al~Takruri
Figs 2&3 Defeated Judahite soldiery of Lachish (closeup profiles and fuller scene)
The first image doesn't show can you refresh it ? Also the link with Elamites being confuse with Israelites isn't opening
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
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this is the best post in the whole dam thread.... 
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