One thing that is funny about Indian media and culture is how they put a white face on even the most ancient forms of culture which even they admit come from the native blacks. This includes the national dance of India which they themselves say originates in the South of India, which means among the native blacks. But you will hardly ever see any blacks in the Indian national dance troupes.
Obviously the fact that these dance troupes have the whitest of the white Indians doing "native" dances of BLACK populations in India is nothing more than racism pure and simple.
quote: Danda Nata
Danda Nata of Orissa, also known as the 'Danda Jatra' , it happens to be one amongst the most ancient form of histrionic arts of the state. Associated with ritualistic services, Danda Nata forms an institution of dance, music and dramatics blended with religions, social reformation and an association of Universal Brotherhood.Mainly an worship of Lord Shiva, the God of destruction of the Hindu mythology, who is also the Lord of histrionic arts (Nata Raj), this theatrical form brings into its fold a harmonious feeling of co-existence between followers of different philosophical doctrines, between political principles and set of opinions.Along with votive dedications to Lord Shiva ( Rudra, Hara, Mahadeva, Shankar, Bholanath etc ) in a Danda Nata, the greatness of other Gods and Goddesses such as Vishnu, Krishna Ganesh, Durga, Kali etc. are also equally invoked.Similarly while the original participants in a Danda Nata were said to be only the low-caste Hindus people, however people belonging to all other higher castes such as Kshyatriyas and Brahmins also participate in this institution with equal interest.
Animal Mask Dance
Animal Mask Dances are prevalent in village of south Orissa specially in the district of Ganjam. Particularly during Thankurani Yatra, when the idols are taken out on the streets, the animal mask dancers go on dancing before the procession. During the marriage ceremonies also they lead the bridegroom's procession all the way to the bride's house. The three animal mask dances typical of the area are the tiger, bull and horse dances. Two persons get into cane frame and conceal themselves within it. Their legs become the legs of the animals they are representing.
Ghoomra Dance
Ghoomra is a typical drum. It is just like a big pitcher with a long stem made of clay. The mouth is covered with the skin of a Godhi (a reptile). When played with both hands, it produces a peculiar sound quite different from other varieties of drums. The dance performed to the accompaniment of this drum is called Ghoomra Nata. It begins fifteen days earlier of Gamha Purnima (full moon in September) and culminates on that night in a ceremonial performance. Young men of various communities fix a Ghoomra each on the chest with string tied the body simultaneouly dance and play. The performance begins will slow circular movements. The Nisan is a smaller variety of Kettle-drum played with two leather-sticks. The player always places himself in the centre and controls the tempo of the dance. He also indicates change over the movements. After a brief dance sequence in different rhythmic patterns all the dancers move in a concentric circle and then stand erect in a line. Then enters the singer who first sings in praise of Saraswati and other gods and godesses. During the song the drums remain silent. After the prayer-song Chhanda, Chaupadi other literary folk-songs are sung. Each couplet of a song is followed by a dance-peace. At the end of the each couplet the singer adds 'Takita Dhe' which is a numonic syllable for the time-beats and indicates the dance to begin.
Karma Dance
Karam or Karma literally means 'fate'. This pastoral dance is performed during the worship of the God or Goddess of fate (Karam Devta or Karamsani Devi), whom the people consider the cause of good and bad fortune. It begins from Bhadra Shukla Ekadasi (eleventh day of the brightmoon of the month of Bhadra) and lasts for several days. This is popular among the scheduled class tribes (e.g., the Binjhal, Kharia, Kisan and Kol tribes) in the districts of Mayurbhanj, Sundargarh, Sambalpur and Dhenkanal. In Dhenkanal and Sambalpur the dance is in honour of Karamsani, the deity who bestows children and good crops. However, the rituals connected with the dance remain the same everywhere. In the afternoon of the auspicious day two young unmarried girls cut and bring two branches of the 'Karam' tree from a nearby jungle. They are accompanied by drummers and musicians. The two branches are then ceremonially planted on the altar of worship and symbolise the God. Germinated grains, grass flowers and country liquor are offered to the deity. After completing the ritual the village-priest tells the story or legend connected with it. This is followed by singing and dancing in accompaniment of drum (madal), cymbal etc. The dance performance full of vigour and energy combined with charm of the youth decked with colourful costumes in exuberance of red cloth, set in peacock feathers skillfully designed ornaments made of small conch shells, brings the onlookers as well as the performers to a mood of trance and ecstasy. In this dance both men and women take part and continue to engross themselves for the whole night. The skillful movement of the young boys with mirror in hand indicates the traditional pattern of love-making in course of dancing and singing. The dance is performed sometimes by boys in group, sometimes by girls in group and sometimes both the sexes together. The subject matter of songs constitutes the description of nature, invocation to Karmasani, desires, aspiration of people, love and humour. The Karam dance continues from dusk to dawn. Group after group drawn from nearby villages dance alternately throughout the night. In the early morning they carry the Karam branches singing and dancing and then immerse them ceremonially in a river or tank and then disperse. The technique of the Karma dance varies a little from tribe to tribe. The Kharias, Kisans and Oraons dance in a circular pattern, where men and women dance together. It is always headed by a leader and generally the men at the head of the line. Only the best of dancers join in right next to or near him. Very young girls and children join in at the tail end to learn the steps. When the dancing grows fast the dancers of the tail end drop out to let the true dancers show their skill. The dancers hold hands in different ways in different dances. Sometimes they simply hold hands and sometimes hands are placed on the neighbor's waist band or are crossed. It is the legs and the feet which play the principal part in the dance. The dance begins lightly with simple steps forward and backward, left and right, then gradually the steps grow smaller and faster, growing more and more complicated, until that dance reaches its height. Then it goes gradually to the first steps as the music leads to give dancers rest. The dancers have no special costume for the occasion. They dance with their usual attires which they wear daily. The dance is usually held in the courtyard of a village where performance is arranged. In the center of the courtyard a bamboo is fixed and it is split into four upto a certain height and then bent to form the arches. Each split is fixed with a pole on the outerside to form the earch. Then it is decorated with festoons of mango leaves and water lilies giving it a festive look. The ground is neatly plastered with cow-dung. Men and women dance winding in an out beneath the arches.
Puppet Dance
Puppets dance known as Kandhei or Sakhi Nata, a rare and unusual type of stylised indigenous drama and dance based on mythological stories, is being performed today in various parts of Orissa. The puppets are usually the representations of various characters and animals of a particular drama. It is difficult to speak anything about its origin but undoubtedly is an old art. The making of dolls with paintings, dresses and ornaments is a typical folk art for the enjoyment of people of all categories. Together with puppets there evolved another art popularly known as the expressive shadow plays which has the added advantage of being able to cater to large audiences. The puppetry of Orissa may be classified into three categories, such as hand puppets, string puppets and rod puppets.
Jhoomar Dance
This dance type named after the accompanying Jhoomar songs is prevalent among the Mahanta and Munda communities of the Sundargarh district. Among the Mahantas the dance is performed by the men only. Among the Mundas the singers who accompany the dancers sing songs and the dancers follow them in chorus in accompaniment of Madal. The Mundas are especially experts in this dance particularly in intricate foot steps, movement of hip and wrists and movement of body.
The strongest aspects of Hindu worship are in the South of India and places like Orissa. Orissa hosts one of the largest Hindu festivals every year called the Rath Yatra.
quote: is a small town in Puri district of the state of Orissa, India, on the Bay of Bengal, sixty-five kilometres from Bhubaneswar. It is the site of the 13th-century Sun Temple (also known as the Black Pagoda), built in black granite by King Narasimhadeva-I(AD 1236-1264) of the Eastern Ganga Dynasty. The temple is a World Heritage Site. It takes the form of the chariot of Surya (Arka), the sun god, and is heavily decorated with stone carving. The entire complex was designed in the form of a huge chariot drawn by seven spirited horses on twelve pairs of exquisitely decorated wheels. The entrance is guarded by two lions, which are each shown crushing a war elephant. Each elephant in turn lies on top of a human body. The temple symbolises the majestic stride of the Sun god. At the entrance of the temple is a Nata Mandir. This is where the temple dancers used to perform dances in homage to the Sun god. All around the temple, there are various floral and geometric patterns. There are also human, divine and semi-divine figures in sensuous poses. The poses contains couples in various amorous poses, and are derived from the Kama Sutra. The temple is now partly in ruins, and a collection of its sculptures is housed in the Sun Temple Museum, which is run by the Archaeological Survey of India. The poet Rabindranath Tagore wrote of Konark: "here the language of stone surpasses the language of man."
Konark is also home to an annual dance festival, held every December, devoted to classical Indian dance forms, including the traditional classical dance of Orissa, odissi.
The idea that white skin is an ancient craze in India is pure bull sh*t. The ancient statues and artwork of India along with early European descriptions of Indians and Indian culture ALL reflect a love of the natural features of MOST INDIANS: dark skin. This love of white skin is a fairly recent phenomena brought by invading whites from the Greeks, to the Persians, Mughals (Mongols) and Europeans.
Indian classical dance comes from the Davadasi tradition of Temple dancers.
quote: originally described a Hindu religious practice in which girls were "married" and dedicated to a deity (deva or [[devi In addition to taking care of the temple and performing rituals, they learned and practiced Bharatanatyam and other classical Indian arts traditions and enjoyed a high social status.
Following the demise of the great Hindu kingdoms the practice degenerated. Pressure from the British colonial reform movement led to suppression of the practice. Adherents of this movement considered devadasis immoral since they engaged in sex outside of the traditional concept of marriage, and described them as prostitutes. As a result of these social changes, devadasis were left without their traditional means of support and patronage. Colonial views on devadasis are hotly disputed by several groups and organizations in India and by western academics. ....
Originally, devadasis were celibate all their life.[11] Reference to dancing girls in temples is found in Kalidasa's "Meghadhoot". It is said that dancing girls were present at the time of worship in the Mahakal Temple of Ujjain. Some scholars are of the opinion that probably the custom of dedicating girls to temples became quite common in the 6th century CE, as most of the Puranas containing reference to it have been written during this period. Several Puranas recommended that arrangements should be made to enlist the services of singing girls for worship at temples.
By the end of 10th century, the total number of devadasis in many temples was in direct proportion to the wealth and prestige of the temple. During the medieval period, they were regarded as a part of the normal establishment of temples; they occupied a rank next only to priests and their number often reached high proportions. For example, there were 400 devadasis attached to the temples at Tanjore and Travancore.
Local kings often invited temple dancers to dance in their courts, the occurrence of which created a new category of dancers, rajadasis, and modified the technique and themes of the recitals. A devadasi had to satisfy her own soul while she danced unwatched and offered herself to the god, but the rajadasi's dance was meant to be an entertainment.
The popularity of devadasis seems to have reached its pinnacle around 10th and 11th century AD. The rise and fall in the status of devadasis can be seen to be running parallel to the rise and fall of Hindu temples. Invaders from West Asia attained their first victory in India at the beginning of the second millennium CE. The destruction of temples by invaders started from the northwestern borders of the country and spread through the whole of the country. Thereafter the status of the temples fell very quickly in North India and slowly in South India. As the temples became poorer and lost their patron kings, and in some cases were destroyed, the devadasis were forced into a life of poverty, misery, and, in some cases, prostitution. .... Unlike other parts of India, the devadasis of the Jagannath temple complex in the eastern state of Orissa have never practised prostitution, and have been expected to remain celibate from the time they became devadasis. Devadasi is a name given to a group of women who danced in the temple premises. The word devadasi or mahari means "those great women who can control natural human impulses, their five senses and can submit themselves completely to God (Vachaspati)." Mahari means Mohan Nari that is, the woman belonging to God. Sri Chaitanayadev had defined devadasis as 'Sebaets' who served God through dance and music. Pankaj Charan Das, the oldest Guru of Odissi classical dance, who comes from a Mahari family, explains Mahari as Maha Ripu -Ari (one who conquers the five main ripus - enemies ). [14]
The beginning the decline of the Mahari tradition started with the Muslim invasion of Orissa in the 14th century. They were exploited and for the first time the Purdah system appeared, ostensibly to guard the women-folk. The gradual degeneration of the devadasi tradition, which had started since the attack of Sultan Shah in 1360 A.D. continued. This was because the social, cultural & political scene was changing rapidly and women, in general, were losing their independence and power.
The Orissa Gazette of 1956 lists nine devadasis and 11 temple musicians. By 1980, only four devadasis were left – Harapriya, Kokilprabha, Paroshmoni and Shashimoni. Now only Shashimoni and Paroshmoni are alive. The daily ritualistic dance had stopped long ago. Now this twosome serve in a few of the yearly temple rituals like Nabakalebar, Nanda Utsav and Duar Paka during Bahura jatra.[14]
The Orissa Gazette of 1956 mentions some occasions where the devadasis danced. They had two daily rituals. The bahar gaunis would dance at the Sakhala Dhupa. Lord Jagannath, after breakfast, would give Darshan to the bhaktas, the devotees. In the main hall, a devadasi accompanied by musicians and the Rajguru, the court guru, would dance, standing near the Garuda sthambha. This dance could be watched by the audience. They would perform only pure dance here. The bhitar gauni would sing at the Badashringhar, the main ceremony for ornamenting and dressing the God. Lord Jagannath, at bedtime, would be first served by male Sebaets- they would fan Him and decorate Him with flowers. After they would leave, a bhitar gauni would then enter the room, stand near the door (Jaya Bijay) and sing Geetagovinda songs, and perhaps perform a ritualistic dance. After a while, she would come out and announce that the Lord has gone to sleep and then the guard would close the main gate.
Any history of the tradition of Indian temple dancing will show you native black Indians. This is why the British suppressed it. It wasn't because of any sexual impropriety, but because it upheld NATIVE BLACKNESS, as most davadasi and other traditions upheld NATIVE PEOPLE. And this goes for all the styles of classical dance which originated among the natives of various parts of India. They have been collected and reformulated as part of dance troupes that have absolutely very little to do with the people or the ancient traditions of these dances.
They then replaced it with the national dance troupes of India, which are a part of the MEDIA AND ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY of India, which is WESTERN ORIENTED and features the WHITEST OF THE WHITE Indians they can find. These dance troupes didn't exist 100 years ago and have nothing to do with the origin and tradition of such dances.
Oh and on a side note, those big clubs seen on the ancient statues are part of an ancient Indian martial arts tradition still seen among the traditional Pehlwan wrestlers in India today:
Even when seeing images such as this I asked one of my Indian coworkers years ago: Why do the Indian gods have "Blue Skin"
She explained to me its not really "Blue Skin" but that is how the artist can best display the skin as being PITCH BLACK.
At first it didnt make sense then i though of American culture and how we use the color blue to portray something that is pitch black: Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afrocentrist: Let's stay foccused here. Is any indian in the photos you provided African Black?
They dont have to be from recent Africans to be Black idiot. Its funny how you came out fuming your crap but in the end of to admit that there are Blacks beside "African Black" (recent that is) as the irrefutable picture evidence posted here clearly shows
I am sure you would like to promote the myth also, that Blacks are only limited to "sub Saharan" Africa, or certain sections of "sub Saharan" Africa
Posts: 40 | From: usa | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by nanni-town: I am sure you would like to promote the myth also, that Blacks are only limited to "sub Saharan" Africa, or certain sections of "sub Saharan" Africa
Too late, he already has. Don't get the fool started again please. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: I never have said those 'dark' Indians aren't black.
LOL, at this other idiot "Bettyboo" After talking down on scholars like Runoko Rashidi, only to be force with facts to admit the obvious with her one liner, and to confirmed that Rashidi are indeed correct.
Idiots like this "Bettyboo" and the one who start the thread are down right predictable in getting shut up in no time with facts, only to continued their facade and idiocy somewhere else till they gotten shut up again
It wouldn't be surprising to find out that they are stormfront white crack-pots coming here under false identities
Posts: 40 | From: usa | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by nanni-town: I am sure you would like to promote the myth also, that Blacks are only limited to "sub Saharan" Africa, or certain sections of "sub Saharan" Africa
Too late, he already has. Don't get the fool started again please.
LOL I am sure he has, you can tell his types a mile away
Posts: 40 | From: usa | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: I never have said those 'dark' Indians aren't black.
LOL, at this other idiot "Bettyboo" After talking down on scholars like Runoko Rashidi, only to be force with facts to admit the obvious with her one liner, and to confirmed that Rashidi are indeed correct.
Runoko Rashidi is not a scholar; he is an inferior neggir that goes around the world forcing his emotions on black groups that aren't African looking for unity outside of that which there is none. Never once, I was ever forced nor have I admitted to Rashidi being correct. He was wrong yesterday, he is wrong today, and if he doesn't get over his inferior complex he will be wrong tomorrow.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: I never have said those 'dark' Indians aren't black.
LOL, at this other idiot "Bettyboo" After talking down on scholars like Runoko Rashidi, only to be force with facts to admit the obvious with her one liner, and to confirmed that Rashidi are indeed correct.
Runoko Rashidi is not a scholar; he is an inferior neggir that goes around the world forcing his emotions on black groups that aren't African looking for unity outside of that which there is none. Never once, I was ever forced nor have I admitted to Rashidi being correct. He was wrong yesterday, he is wrong today, and if he doesn't get over his inferior complex he will be wrong tomorrow.
You seriously are a stupid bitch. I understand that most South Asians are not recent African migrants, but political affinity as a result of a common history, vs. European oppression.
The delusions that surround you does not apply to others in the real world. I mean, if you were to even do some research, you'd understand that both regions have many, modern, political commonalities. That will be demonstrated below:
quote:Dalit Panthers of India
During the 1960s and 1970s, the Dalit Panthers, and several groups with a Marxist/Leninist or Maoist orientation, emerged outside the framework of recognized political parties and parliamentary politics to confront the established powers. The Dalit Panthers were formed in the state of Maharashtra in the 1970s, ideologically aligning themselves to the Black Panther movement in the United States. During the same period, Dalit literature, painting, and theater challenged the very premise and nature of established art forms and their depiction of society and religion. Many of these new Dalit artists formed the first generation of theDalit Panther movement that sought to wage an organized struggle against the varna system. Dalit Panthers visited “atrocity” sites, organized marches and rallies in villages, and raised slogans of direct militant action against their upper-caste aggressors.46
The determined stance of the Dalit Panthers served to arouse and unite many Dalits, particularly Dalit youths and students. The defeat of ruling party candidates and the boycott of elections in some areas forced the government to take notice of the movement: Panther leaders were often harassed and removed from districts for speaking out against the government and Hindu religion. They also became frequent targets of police brutality and arbitrary detentions. Disagreements over the future of the movement and the inclusion of other caste groups ultimately led to a dispersal of Dalit Panther leadership. The former aggressiveness and militancy of the Dalit Panthers have for the most part dissipated, though small splinter groups or groups that have adopted the name still survive.47 In Tamil Nadu, for example, the Dalit Panthers of India have thrived since the 1980s as a nonviolent awareness-raising and organizing movement concentrating primarily on women’s rights and land issues and claims. They are currently led by a man named Tirumavalavan. As documented in chapters V and VIII, their members are continually harassed and detained by the police. Link
quote: Right from her undergraduate days, Rajani had yearned and fought for social justice and equality. Whether it be student issues, the discrimination against Tamils, the National Question or general strikes, she always aligned herself with the oppressed parties. She stood up in very delicate situations and argued, confronted and negotiated for the rights of the people. During her stay in Britain from 1983 to 1986, she, together with her postgraduate studies, participated in the various political and socio-cultural struggles of the black people. She shared in the striving of blacks for an end to discrimination and their recognition as a political force to be esteemed. She did this with her characteristic enthusiasm. It was particularly in the sphere of black women and feminism that she explored specific issues [/and concepts concerning women, within the broader framework of class, black struggles and other third world phenomena. Link
Don't go lecturing others on emotions, when you clearly are a deluded white woman. The fact remains is that white women will be viewed secondary in law, and will play a minimal role in technological development in the West. Oh, and I'm not African-American, nor "West African", so that childish superiority complex of yours has no context in my perspective. I maintain a rather stern position, vs you, because you're pretending to belong to the dominant class when you're just a woman.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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I know you dislike Betty but women's minds are just as powerful as a man.
The women struggle is important to advancing our Human Race. Helping women grow and gain strength, will benefit all the mass(People) I just finished watching a documentary on women who develop fistula when the are pregnant. Meaning they can't control there bladder. What I got is that these women were young when they were forced to get married. This is sadness because these girls were as young as 9 yearsold when they got married off. Ignorant parents don't give these girls the chances to develop and learn and they get pregnant before they are really ready and complications happen. One girl said she wanted to drink poision because the people in her village treated her like a pariah. If we are going to move forward as a people we must strengthen women and teach parents in the 3rd world to allow there daughters to gain an education. The good thing I saw at the end of the program was seeing one women say she will allow her girls to be educated and not marry them off when they are just kids.
You also just posted a article about Rajani Thiranagama a women. So how can you belittle women like that.
Bob you make plenty of good points but you seem to love to insult mothers and women in general when you debate racists. This needs to stop. Women are integral to growing the future(children) to be the change we want to see in the world.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I know you dislike Betty but women's minds are just as powerful as a man.
The women struggle is important to advancing our Human Race. Helping women grow and gain strength, will benefit all the mass(People) I just finished watching a documentary on women who develop fistula when the are pregnant. Meaning they can't control there bladder. What I got is that these women were young when they were forced to get married. This is sadness because these girls were as young as 9 yearsold when they got married off. Ignorant parents don't give these girls the chances to develop and learn and they get pregnant before they are really ready and complications happen. One girl said she wanted to drink poision because the people in her village treated her like a pariah. If we are going to move forward as a people we must strengthen women and teach parents in the 3rd world to allow there daughters to gain an education. The good thing I saw at the end of the program was seeing one women say she will allow her girls to be educated and not marry them off when they are just kids.
You also just posted a article about Rajani Thiranagama a women. So how can you belittle women like that.
Bob you make plenty of good points but you seem to love to insult mothers and women in general when you debate racists. This needs to stop. Women are integral to growing the future(children) to be the change we want to see in the world.
Peace
As I said, just a woman.
I, honestly, want to know, why do so many here play dress up a little too much? This nonsense needs to stop, because I'd never think that we as peoples should look to the Irish, white Southerners, or white women. Maybe East Indian or Jewish women ( a lot more cleaner), but not the female population, ones sees in Indianapolis, Salt Lake City, or whatever.
This game needs to end. Truth is, she'll be expected to use her excessive make up, fake blonde hair, ugly tans, and pretend that she's assimilated after being raped (while intoxicated) in some university. It's a position so common amongst the elite, where then the bitch would be told, "she's asking for it". To make matters worse, now that nearly every American is a fat ****, she better lose that 300lb frame as well and bring down her carbon emissions.
King, as I said before, I understand feminism. The issues that existed in past still exist, especially when poverty, worldwide, has become ridiculously feminized. It seems like you seem to ignore that. Oh well. Most here know that, so I must emphasize that white women are trash within Western society. You just need to go to the welfare line, and see these women with their illegitimate, near-retarded, white children.
Sure Black women are no different, but most welfare recipients, and illegitimate children are "white". These race traitors, who allowed the white population to age and shrink at ridiculously levels. The token still-under-replacement fertility rates, joins the decades of abysmal white TFR. The Black and Hispanic population made up around half of children under 5 years of age as of 2000. Such a shame indeed.
We could play this game as well, Boo. It's quite noticeable too. Humans are become more modest when their shown that they're trash. This is why I choose to post in such a manner. Those who don't, such as King, have failed to develop respect from these trolls. As for me, I couldn't care less of what they think of me, but what I say will strike them. I shall say it again, you aren't better than us, and I may not be "West African", but I doubt most who are would disagree with me.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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All the things Blacks have done for this world while being the most vilified ethnicity just shows that Blacks have a strength to excel in troubling circumstances.
As for white women, I will say that I see some of them are working against women in general. They are stooges to promote a One child policy like China has. Really I saw a talk show where these white women were talking about how having one child is so "uplifting" It was a shame to watch.
But I also saw a documentary on a Black women that said if she could microchip her child she would. So there is evil in each race that has to be purged.
As for respect from these people, trust me I don't post for respect from people. I post the TRUTH and they either accept it or stand against it. If you read any of the threads on the religous section, you would see me basically discussing the TRUTH with many a muslims who respond in insults. I don't respond in kind because it just does not solve anything.
I enjoy reading your posts but the attack on women is just going a bit too far.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: I never have said those 'dark' Indians aren't black.
LOL, at this other idiot "Bettyboo" After talking down on scholars like Runoko Rashidi, only to be force with facts to admit the obvious with her one liner, and to confirmed that Rashidi are indeed correct.
Runoko Rashidi is not a scholar; he is an inferior neggir that goes around the world forcing his emotions on black groups that aren't African looking for unity outside of that which there is none. Never once, I was ever forced nor have I admitted to Rashidi being correct. He was wrong yesterday, he is wrong today, and if he doesn't get over his inferior complex he will be wrong tomorrow.
You seriously are a stupid bitch. I understand that most South Asians are not recent African migrants, but political affinity as a result of a common history, vs. European oppression.
The delusions that surround you does not apply to others in the real world. I mean, if you were to even do some research, you'd understand that both regions have many, modern, political commonalities. That will be demonstrated below:
quote:Dalit Panthers of India
During the 1960s and 1970s, the Dalit Panthers, and several groups with a Marxist/Leninist or Maoist orientation, emerged outside the framework of recognized political parties and parliamentary politics to confront the established powers. The Dalit Panthers were formed in the state of Maharashtra in the 1970s, ideologically aligning themselves to the Black Panther movement in the United States. During the same period, Dalit literature, painting, and theater challenged the very premise and nature of established art forms and their depiction of society and religion. Many of these new Dalit artists formed the first generation of theDalit Panther movement that sought to wage an organized struggle against the varna system. Dalit Panthers visited “atrocity” sites, organized marches and rallies in villages, and raised slogans of direct militant action against their upper-caste aggressors.46
The determined stance of the Dalit Panthers served to arouse and unite many Dalits, particularly Dalit youths and students. The defeat of ruling party candidates and the boycott of elections in some areas forced the government to take notice of the movement: Panther leaders were often harassed and removed from districts for speaking out against the government and Hindu religion. They also became frequent targets of police brutality and arbitrary detentions. Disagreements over the future of the movement and the inclusion of other caste groups ultimately led to a dispersal of Dalit Panther leadership. The former aggressiveness and militancy of the Dalit Panthers have for the most part dissipated, though small splinter groups or groups that have adopted the name still survive.47 In Tamil Nadu, for example, the Dalit Panthers of India have thrived since the 1980s as a nonviolent awareness-raising and organizing movement concentrating primarily on women’s rights and land issues and claims. They are currently led by a man named Tirumavalavan. As documented in chapters V and VIII, their members are continually harassed and detained by the police. Link
quote: Right from her undergraduate days, Rajani had yearned and fought for social justice and equality. Whether it be student issues, the discrimination against Tamils, the National Question or general strikes, she always aligned herself with the oppressed parties. She stood up in very delicate situations and argued, confronted and negotiated for the rights of the people. During her stay in Britain from 1983 to 1986, she, together with her postgraduate studies, participated in the various political and socio-cultural struggles of the black people. She shared in the striving of blacks for an end to discrimination and their recognition as a political force to be esteemed. She did this with her characteristic enthusiasm. It was particularly in the sphere of black women and feminism that she explored specific issues [/and concepts concerning women, within the broader framework of class, black struggles and other third world phenomena. Link
Don't go lecturing others on emotions, when you clearly are a deluded white woman. The fact remains is that white women will be viewed secondary in law, and will play a minimal role in technological development in the West. Oh, and I'm not African-American, nor "West African", so that childish superiority complex of yours has no context in my perspective. I maintain a rather stern position, vs you, because you're pretending to belong to the dominant class when you're just a woman.
I don't think one needs to confuse Bettyboo or whatever IT is with white women. And I don't want to bring animals into the equation either since they for the most part have more sense.LOL. IT is obviously possessed by some type of animal as evidenced by IT's monkey-brained inferences. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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All the things Blacks have done for this world while being the most vilified ethnicity just shows that Blacks have a strength to excel in troubling circumstances.
As for white women, I will say that I see some of them are working against women in general. They are stooges to promote a One child policy like China has. Really I saw a talk show where these white women were talking about how having one child is so "uplifting" It was a shame to watch.
But I also saw a documentary on a Black women that said if she could microchip her child she would. So there is evil in each race that has to be purged.
As for respect from these people, trust me I don't post for respect from people. I post the TRUTH and they either accept it or stand against it. If you read any of the threads on the religous section, you would see me basically discussing the TRUTH with many a muslims who respond in insults. I don't respond in kind because it just does not solve anything.
I enjoy reading your posts but the attack on women is just going a bit too far.
Peace
I'm a sexist and egoistic male, but I do see a lot wrong with that position. I ask, why can't white women decide to invest in independent development, rather than carrying a family on her back? There is nothing special about the latter. The human populations a whole isn't shrinking, and plenty of, unskilled, pale-skinned youngsters can immigrate to US and cover aging population.
Sure many may be Mexican, or Muslim, but you have many like Fawal, who will be ready to invest extensively into the white club. At the same time the high-IQ "West African", East and South Asian migrants will lead US's information and knowledge sectors. Nothing new here, especially the later which has been the norm even prior to the development of US's IT sector. However, it'll be interesting to see if Italian/ Irish-level migration is allowed in order to cover the old and obese white population, who are expecting multi-million dollar pension benefits.
Having said that, Betty, just like most white women, wouldn't adopt a conservative lifestyle. I originate from a land, where women, especially, are brutalized or killed for ignoring her duties within the family and attempting to compete with the male head. That paradigm is the norm in the Bible as well. The women is essentially the servant of the family, just as clergy are that to laymen, and Jesus is that to God. I've distanced from religion, but fundamentalist ideology is not that far from my house.
Could part-time Christian, women, who can't even preserve their virginity suggest the same? I don't think so. These attacks on "West Africans" are just an attempt to ignore the fact that white women are largely the enemy of the traditional white power structure. I say, 'traditional', because the hierarchy is rather innovative, the definition of "white" can always change.
The Irish and Jews were once color, but now are classified white. Definitions can change, but the currently dominant population will be supplanted by "New Whites" once they end up as weak senior citizens. This will change the composition of the power structure, and we'll likely see the old segment channeled into nursery homes. Those familial ties won't exist, with the younger "new whites", and that is the result of the so-called "selfish" lifestyle choices by white women.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by nanni-town:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: I never have said those 'dark' Indians aren't black.
LOL, at this other idiot "Bettyboo" After talking down on scholars like Runoko Rashidi, only to be force with facts to admit the obvious with her one liner, and to confirmed that Rashidi are indeed correct.
Runoko Rashidi is not a scholar; he is an inferior neggir that goes around the world forcing his emotions on black groups that aren't African looking for unity outside of that which there is none. Never once, I was ever forced nor have I admitted to Rashidi being correct. He was wrong yesterday, he is wrong today, and if he doesn't get over his inferior complex he will be wrong tomorrow.
You seriously are a stupid bitch. I understand that most South Asians are not recent African migrants, but political affinity as a result of a common history, vs. European oppression.
The delusions that surround you does not apply to others in the real world. I mean, if you were to even do some research, you'd understand that both regions have many, modern, political commonalities. That will be demonstrated below:
quote:Dalit Panthers of India
During the 1960s and 1970s, the Dalit Panthers, and several groups with a Marxist/Leninist or Maoist orientation, emerged outside the framework of recognized political parties and parliamentary politics to confront the established powers. The Dalit Panthers were formed in the state of Maharashtra in the 1970s, ideologically aligning themselves to the Black Panther movement in the United States. During the same period, Dalit literature, painting, and theater challenged the very premise and nature of established art forms and their depiction of society and religion. Many of these new Dalit artists formed the first generation of theDalit Panther movement that sought to wage an organized struggle against the varna system. Dalit Panthers visited “atrocity” sites, organized marches and rallies in villages, and raised slogans of direct militant action against their upper-caste aggressors.46
The determined stance of the Dalit Panthers served to arouse and unite many Dalits, particularly Dalit youths and students. The defeat of ruling party candidates and the boycott of elections in some areas forced the government to take notice of the movement: Panther leaders were often harassed and removed from districts for speaking out against the government and Hindu religion. They also became frequent targets of police brutality and arbitrary detentions. Disagreements over the future of the movement and the inclusion of other caste groups ultimately led to a dispersal of Dalit Panther leadership. The former aggressiveness and militancy of the Dalit Panthers have for the most part dissipated, though small splinter groups or groups that have adopted the name still survive.47 In Tamil Nadu, for example, the Dalit Panthers of India have thrived since the 1980s as a nonviolent awareness-raising and organizing movement concentrating primarily on women’s rights and land issues and claims. They are currently led by a man named Tirumavalavan. As documented in chapters V and VIII, their members are continually harassed and detained by the police. Link
quote: Right from her undergraduate days, Rajani had yearned and fought for social justice and equality. Whether it be student issues, the discrimination against Tamils, the National Question or general strikes, she always aligned herself with the oppressed parties. She stood up in very delicate situations and argued, confronted and negotiated for the rights of the people. During her stay in Britain from 1983 to 1986, she, together with her postgraduate studies, participated in the various political and socio-cultural struggles of the black people. She shared in the striving of blacks for an end to discrimination and their recognition as a political force to be esteemed. She did this with her characteristic enthusiasm. It was particularly in the sphere of black women and feminism that she explored specific issues [/and concepts concerning women, within the broader framework of class, black struggles and other third world phenomena. Link
Don't go lecturing others on emotions, when you clearly are a deluded white woman. The fact remains is that white women will be viewed secondary in law, and will play a minimal role in technological development in the West. Oh, and I'm not African-American, nor "West African", so that childish superiority complex of yours has no context in my perspective. I maintain a rather stern position, vs you, because you're pretending to belong to the dominant class when you're just a woman.
I don't think one needs to confuse Bettyboo or whatever IT is with white women. And I don't want to bring animals into the equation either since they for the most part have more sense.LOL. IT is obviously possessed by some type of animal as evidenced by IT's monkey-brained inferences.
I hear you well, Dana. The truth is I do understand the issues faced amongst the "subordinate" gender. She is clearly employing a superiority complex, but that won't work with us.
The method I use tends to involve downright complementing sexism. I've have experience with cultures or regimes that are either "brutally" oppressive vs. women, or the variety we see in Western nations. The one where we're all equal, despite poverty being ridiculously feminized, and the housing crisis disproportionately affecting women, who were more likely to be on sub-prime loans.
I think we need to realize that there are several social "niggers" in America. Blacks are one of them. This was quite noticeable a century ago (just as it is now), when my relatives visited the West. It's just that, white women are tasked with producing that white child, while they're statistically, as a whole, in extreme poverty. Such a shame. You'd expect more modesty from the "other" side.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Bottom line black women were important players in women's suffrage even though they were doubly and triply affected by race and sexism in America. But for some black women to identify more with whites as women as opposed to their status as black women is a bit hilarious.
The point being that black women being involved in suffrage should not equate their plight to that of white women, even if they are both victims of sexism because white women were still white and prone to the same racism of white males.....
quote: Many African American women were highly active in the woman suffrage movement. In the antebellum period, like Anglo women, many black women became active abolitionists and supporters of women’s rights. Sojourner Truth, a former slave, became famous as both an abolitionist and an advocate of woman suffrage. In 1851, she made her famous speech, “Ain’t I A Woman,” at a convention in Akron, Ohio. Other black women suffragists from this time period include Margaretta Forten, Harriet Forten Purvis, and Mary Ann Shadd Cary.
Black women participated in the American Equal Rights Association, and later in both the National Woman Suffrage Association and the American Woman Suffrage Association. Historian Rosalyn Terborg-Penn argues that black women were drawn more to the AWSA than the NWSA as the AWSA supported the enfranchisement of black men.
In the 1880s and 1890s, black women, like their white counterparts, began to form woman’s clubs. Many of these clubs included suffrage as one plank in their broader platform. In 1896, many of these clubs affiliated to form the National Association of Colored Women (NACW), with Mary Church Terrell as president. From its founding until the passage of the 19th Amendment, the NACW included a department that worked for the advancement of woman suffrage. The National Baptist Woman’s Convention, another focal point of black women’s organizational power, also consistently supported woman suffrage. In addition, black women founded clubs that worked exclusively for woman’s suffrage, such as the Alpha Suffrage Club of Chicago, founded by Ida B. Wells in 1913.
Despite this strong support for woman’s suffrage, black women sometimes faced discrimination within the suffrage movement itself. From the end of the Civil War onwards, some white suffragists argued that enfranchising women would serve to cancel out the “Negro” vote, as there would be more white women voters than black men and women voters combined. Although some black clubwomen participated actively in the National American Woman Suffrage Association (NAWSA), the NAWSA did not always welcome them with open arms. In the 20th century, the NAWSA leadership sometimes discouraged black women’s clubs from attempting to affiliate with the NAWSA. Some Southern members of NAWSA argued for the enfranchisement of white women only. In addition, in the suffrage parade of 1913 organized by Alice Paul’s Congressional Union, black women were asked to march in a segregated unit. Ida B. Wells refused to do so, and slipped into her state’s delegation after the start of the parade.
posted
Bob_01 wrote: ------------------------------------ but what I say will strike them ------------------------------------
And that is exactly what has to be done. Psychoanalyze them and tell them about themselves. You can't be passive and try to prove your worth to them as many idiots on this forum do. As a matter of fact it only emboldens them and makes them feel superior when fools do try to prove their worth to them.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Bottom line black women were important players in women's suffrage even though they were doubly and triply affected by race and sexism in America. ]But for some black women to identify more with whites as women as opposed to their status as black women is a bit hilarious.
The point being that black women being involved in suffrage should not equate their plight to that of white women, even if they are both victims of sexism because white women were still white and prone to the same racism of white males.....
quote: Many African American women were highly active in the woman suffrage movement. In the antebellum period, like Anglo women, many black women became active abolitionists and supporters of women’s rights. Sojourner Truth, a former slave, became famous as both an abolitionist and an advocate of woman suffrage. In 1851, she made her famous speech, “Ain’t I A Woman,” at a convention in Akron, Ohio. Other black women suffragists from this time period include Margaretta Forten, Harriet Forten Purvis, and Mary Ann Shadd Cary.
Black women participated in the American Equal Rights Association, and later in both the National Woman Suffrage Association and the American Woman Suffrage Association. Historian Rosalyn Terborg-Penn argues that black women were drawn more to the AWSA than the NWSA as the AWSA supported the enfranchisement of black men.
In the 1880s and 1890s, black women, like their white counterparts, began to form woman’s clubs. Many of these clubs included suffrage as one plank in their broader platform. In 1896, many of these clubs affiliated to form the National Association of Colored Women (NACW), with Mary Church Terrell as president. From its founding until the passage of the 19th Amendment, the NACW included a department that worked for the advancement of woman suffrage. The National Baptist Woman’s Convention, another focal point of black women’s organizational power, also consistently supported woman suffrage. In addition, black women founded clubs that worked exclusively for woman’s suffrage, such as the Alpha Suffrage Club of Chicago, founded by Ida B. Wells in 1913.
Despite this strong support for woman’s suffrage, black women sometimes faced discrimination within the suffrage movement itself. From the end of the Civil War onwards, some white suffragists argued that enfranchising women would serve to cancel out the “Negro” vote, as there would be more white women voters than black men and women voters combined. Although some black clubwomen participated actively in the National American Woman Suffrage Association (NAWSA), the NAWSA did not always welcome them with open arms. In the 20th century, the NAWSA leadership sometimes discouraged black women’s clubs from attempting to affiliate with the NAWSA. Some Southern members of NAWSA argued for the enfranchisement of white women only. In addition, in the suffrage parade of 1913 organized by Alice Paul’s Congressional Union, black women were asked to march in a segregated unit. Ida B. Wells refused to do so, and slipped into her state’s delegation after the start of the parade.
Do you really think so? I mean, I've always seem to notice black men identifying more with "America", and emphasizing on "male-ness" in order to maximize that status. Don't get me wrong, there isn't anything "immoral" about America/n, but "black radicals" (as Hammer would say) in US politics, has a similar position on US foreign policy as some donkey living living in some trailer. It's a shame, especially when that section should lobby for those living in the third world.
As for Black women, they have more of a history developing female institutions WITHIN America than most non-Black (for the lack of a better term) women. People seem to assume that all "whites" lived in US for 500 years, when that's far from the truth. It hurts. Well I couldn't care less (just means I have to enhance my standings), but others here do, and that's going to be fact for a very long time.
I do wonder, how long did Bettyboo's ancestors live in the United States? Most kikes hardly lived in the land for a decade, and women in this community played a minor history cultivating the land unlike black women. Most enjoyed the gains women earn prior to their arrival. However over here, history is bunk, and everyone can be "smart", but they'd rather be office workers or retail clerks. On the other hand, I'd use that privilege in order to surpass past intellectual greats. As I said, one is never too old to enhance her or his standings in this world.
For instance, take Fawal's worthless "North African" mother. I mean, what the **** is she to America? She's probably played a limited role in the nation's development, and is not culturally tied to the land either. You don't need to be "smart" to notice that. Her place is in the Maghreb, where child prostitutes are as common as fat people in America. My cultural upbringing would suggest that such women ought to be executed, after realizing most I saw were actually Muslim. Oh, and as I said earlier, such a shame indeed.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Black Africans and their descendants should always identify with the plight of their cousins in the diaspora because they are all in the same boat. Therefore they should identify and lobby for each other because they are all under the same system that is trying to work against them.
Identifying with the culture of "others" does you no good if that "culture" exists to destroy the you and your identity. Hence, women's suffrage is a noble cause but for black women it was more than women's suffrage alone. So in this case I am speaking of that faux feminism among some black women who weren't even really accepted by white females to begin with.
But what institutions in America were developed by black females versus non black females?
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Black Africans and their descendants should always identify with the plight of their cousins in the diaspora because they are all in the same boat. Therefore they should identify and lobby for each other because they are all under the same system that is trying to work against them.
Identifying with the culture of "others" does you no good if that "culture" exists to destroy the you and your identity. Hence, women's suffrage is a noble cause but for black women it was more than women's suffrage alone. So in this case I am speaking of that faux feminism among some black women who weren't even really accepted by white females to begin with.
But what institutions in America were developed by black females versus non black females?
Agriculture, much of the textile industry, and the base of the American manufacturing economy. That input is what produced the America of today. Much of the white population, on the other hand, are rather recent migrants.
As for sexism, the issues that existed today hasn't disappeared. It has merely evolved as we see with the feminization of poverty. Women are economically channeled out, when attempting to live independently. Since Black men are far from saints, I doubt the decision to opt out of the family cannot be justified.
However, you've ignored a rather core position of my post: How about Black men? Many have distanced from Blacks and Black women, in order to approximate close to the "American" ideal. I understand that economics is an issue, but we men are hardly better (if not we're worse). African-"American" lobbyists do defend the interests of Blacks worldwide, as we see with other communities.
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posted
Segregation of black males and females as part of the commoditization of their labor is as standard practice in historical African communities enslaved or subject to colonialism. Likewise, the modern system corporate work does not promote families anyway and that is for blacks or whites. So I don't see any of this as a inherent issue with blacks as opposed to an issue with the system itself.
Again, the people aren't the problem it is the system itself because most of the "issues" you raised are simply symptoms of the larger problem. But the issue is that blacks should not lose sight of the fact that this SAME SYSTEM exists no matter where blacks are and the same symptoms are found as well.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Segregation of black males and females as part of the commoditization of their labor is as standard practice in historical African communities enslaved or subject to colonialism. Likewise, the modern system corporate work does not promote families anyway and that is for blacks or whites. So I don't see any of this as a inherent issue with blacks as opposed to an issue with the system itself.
Again, the people aren't the problem it is the system itself because most of the "issues" you raised are simply symptoms of the larger problem. But the issue is that blacks should not lose sight of the fact that this SAME SYSTEM exists no matter where blacks are and the same symptoms are found as well.
I never implied that. It is considered sexism for a reason, because it runs through race. Besides what is wrong with women opting to live life independently? You need to start looking at the other side, i.e. male behavior.
Since we're dealing with the corporate paradigm, I'd suggest looking at nations such as India, Turkey, or Uganda. Marriage is much of a norm, and I'd argue that these populations are more exposed to corporate rule. Protectionism, the means of securing low-interest credit to make these barriers possible are clearly the greatest within the West.
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posted
It isn't a question of whether you implied anything as opposed to your focus on sexism which has to be put into the context of the larger socio-political context in which it exists. All societies traditionally have different roles for men and women because sex is a fact of nature. Whether that is determined to be sexism is dependent on the specifics of each.
I mainly was focusing on the impact of the colonial and slave policies on African male and female units which must cooperate in order to reproduce life. That is survival. It is important to understand that for survival and to reverse the negative impacts of such policies on HEALTHY male/female relationships.
Male behaviors and traditional roles will always be found in any society and so will female traditional roles. Women will always be mothers no matter what and men will always be fathers.
And it is those policies and the impact on the fundamental unit of survival for black people that is my concern, not sexism for the sake of argument. That is why I mentioned black women championing suffrage as if that really made them free and equal with white women.....
For example, look at the incredible rise in rapes since colonialism in Africa. Look at the separate men's and women's hostels and work rules in Africa. These go beyond mere African traditions and reflect the impact of modern systems of socio-economics that are not governed by African traditional values.
So my point is why just focus on sexism in an abstract form and not remember the context in which it impacts blacks and their ability to define and reinforce healthy and productive roles for males and females and constructive relationships between them.
But don't let me hijack what you were trying to get at. Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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