Thanks for sharing Ausar, But I agree with arreubinsoni that the Military is tyrants.
BUT
One thing that stands out is that being a Nubian does not limit the chance of becoming a top leader of an Country like Egypt....Thats the Good news. Sadly though if you oppress the people then it's wrong regardless of your ancestry. Freedom is something the Egyptians Have thanks to their peaceful revolution and you hope they learn to accept others and stand strong as an United Nation.
Like the Bible says.....Love hides a Multitude of Sins and Love never Fails. The love the Egyptians had for there people is what toppled the corrupt government.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
Exactly. Its preposterous!!! how people alienate indigenous people of the region. "Egyptian" can no longer be used as the ethnic term it stood for. With today's population its more of a nationality for the people who currently reside in the region.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: He is the son of an an Egyptian Nubian. He has a very prominent position within the Egyptian military and serves as the defacto ruler.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
He's half Nubian. Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian.
And by the way... non-African admixture is likely of Greco-Roman and combined Islamic era origin. You can't blame it on the Turks.
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Yeah he is of the old general stock and should go back to the barracks now!!! but interesting last name Tantawai kinda remind me of Tanwetamani last of the 25th dyn. Pharaohs.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
He's half Nubian. Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian.
And by the way... non-African admixture is likely of Greco-Roman and combined Islamic era origin. You can't blame it on the Turks.
Your contradicting yourself. You just "Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian." How can say tantawi is half Nubian(as if nubian's are alien to Egypt), when in actuality his Nubian side comes from Egypt and Mubarak who ancestry comes from a Eurasian background is ethnically Egyptian. That does not make any sense. Nubian's have always been in apart of AE history and to this day reside in Egypt. Modern day Egyptians who resemble Honsni have foreign ancestry from elsewhere so how does that give them the ethnic background of an "Egyptian" over a NUBIAN. Again make no sense. If someone like Hosni get the right to claim the ethnicity of Egyptian a Nubian of Egypt should have the same classification, since ethnically "EGYPTIAN" of today is not in congruence with "Ancient Egyptian".
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Lioness, you keep sliding further and further from lucidity. Maybe it would be a good idea to take a rest now?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: Your contradicting yourself. You just "Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian." How can say tantawi is half Nubian(as if nubian's are alien to Egypt), when in actuality his Nubian side comes from Egypt and Mubarak who ancestry comes from a Eurasian background is ethnically Egyptian. That does not make any sense. Nubian's have always been in apart of AE history and to this day reside in Egypt. Modern day Egyptians who resemble Honsni have foreign ancestry from elsewhere so how does that give them the ethnic background of an "Egyptian" over a NUBIAN. Again make no sense. If someone like Hosni get the right to claim the ethnicity of Egyptian a Nubian of Egypt should have the same classification, since ethnically "EGYPTIAN" of today is not in congruence with "Ancient Egyptian".
Do you not know the difference between nationality and ethnicity? Nationality wise, they are both 100% Egyptian. Since the modern Arab Republic of Egypt consists of what used to be independent Lower Nubia. Ethnicity wise, Tantawi is only half Egyptian, half Nubian. Mubarak is 100% Egyptian. In Egypt today, there are three dominant ethnic groups... the predominant Egyptians, the Nubians, and the Beja. The Egyptians are the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians, all though in regard to Lower Egypt in particular having received foreign gene-flow during the historic era, esp. during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. The Nubians and the Beja are not the direct descendants, all though they likely most resemble the ancients on a genetic and phenotypic level. The Nubians and Beja are culturally distinct from the predominant Egyptian culture/population and have their own identity, people like Mubarack only know and identify with "Egyptian" culture. And they would not have it any other way. Lower and Middle Egyptians are likely predominantly African, and they look it, in regard to a Northeast African context at least. In that they look more African than your average 50/50 East African/Eurasian child. I'm not contradicting myself, your just confused.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Let me clarify for anybody curious about Hosni's background. He comes from Mounufia governate in the Delta region. People from this area tend to be a little on the light side. Even the fellahin from here can sometimes resemble southern Europeans. He is not from a wealthy family but I have no doubt he has pre-Islamic and Islamic era admixture. Lots of Arabs in this area intermingled with the fellahin. This is well documented.
Either way I am glab Hosni is disposed. I have low expectations considering that Omar Suleiman is an Egyptian military officer. Egyptian military are not known for their human rights violation. Plus the overall character of Egyptians tends to be of pasivity.
As for the origins of Tantawi. Nubians in Egypt tend to cling to pre-Islamic idenity more so than Egyptians who tend to identify with Arabs. This is why Nubians consider themselves distinct from most Egyptians. What foreigners and Egyptians donot realize is that there are Nubians as dark as southern Sudanese and some lighter than Hosni Mubarak.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Do you not know the difference between nationality and ethnicity? Nationality wise, they are both 100% Egyptian. Since the modern Arab Republic of Egypt consists of what used to be independent Lower Nubia. Ethnicity wise, Tantawi is only half Egyptian, half Nubian. Mubarak is 100% Egyptian. In Egypt today, there are three dominant ethnic groups... the predominant Egyptians, the Nubians, and the Beja. The Egyptians are the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians, all though in regard to Lower Egypt in particular having received foreign gene-flow during the historic era, esp. during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. The Nubians and the Beja are not the direct descendants, all though they likely most resemble the ancients on a genetic and phenotypic level. The Nubians and Beja are culturally distinct from the predominant Egyptian culture/population and have their own identity, people like Mubarack only know and identify with "Egyptian" culture. And they would not have it any other way. Lower and Middle Egyptians are likely predominantly African, and they look it, in regard to a Northeast African context at least. In that they look more African than your average 50/50 East African/Eurasian child. I'm not contradicting myself, your just confused.
My point is this, the way the populace of modern Egypt is today, you can't say someone who is light skinned is more Egyptian then someone is who is dark skinned(nubian). A Nubian has the right to classify themselves as Nubian. My personal opinion on the matter is that the only reason Nubian in Egypt are categorized as a ethnic group is because they are dark skinned. You can ask many city dwellers in Egypt of their heritage and they will tell you they part Turk, Syrian, etc... For that reason how can someone be 100% Egyptian.. and just because one is dark skinned like Tantawi they have to pull out their heritage to see where his blackness comes from as if his blackness is foreign to Egypt. Its contradictory.
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: You can ask many city dwellers in Egypt of their heritage and they will tell you they part Turk, Syrian, etc... For that reason how can someone be 100% Egyptian..
because some Egyptians come from an unbroken indigenous to Egypt ancestry
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I have no doubt he (Mubarak ) has pre-Islamic and Islamic era admixture.
Most Egyptians are indigenous people who converted to Islam. Others have foreign ancestry. To say that you "have no doubt" is not evidence
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: My point is this, the way the populace of modern Egypt is today, you can't say someone who is light skinned is more Egyptian then someone is who is dark skinned(nubian). A Nubian has the right to classify themselves as Nubian. My personal opinion on the matter is that the only reason Nubian in Egypt are categorized as a ethnic group is because they are dark skinned. You can ask many city dwellers in Egypt of their heritage and they will tell you they part Turk, Syrian, etc... For that reason how can someone be 100% Egyptian.. and just because one is dark skinned like Tantawi they have to pull out their heritage to see where his blackness comes from as if his blackness is foreign to Egypt. Its contradictory. [/QB]
That has nothing to do with skin color. Dark skinned Egyptians who resemble Nubians in the vicinity of Luxor and Aswan are equally ethnically Egyptian in comparison to lighter skinned Egyptians from the Delta. Dark skin doesn't equal Nubian. Nubians speak their own Nilo-Saharan language and practice their own unique culture, distinct from their fellow dark skinned Upper Egyptian counterparts. Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I have no doubt he (Mubarak ) has pre-Islamic and Islamic era admixture.
Most Egyptians are indigenous people who converted to Islam. Others have foreign ancestry. To say that you "have no doubt" is not evidence
They're indigenous to an extent, in that most modern Egyptians possess significant African and therefore Ancient Egyptian ancestry. But they are in no way a continuation of the biocultural diversity seen in Ancient Egypt. They've experienced gene-flow via the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. In particular the former.
"It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians. By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made-up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins."
Faiyum is in Middle Egypt. If 30% of Faiyum's population was Greek, with larger Greek populations in the Delta/Lower Egypt (the Greek population being gradually absorbed prior to Roman rule), how could you deny the historically mixed nature of the modern Egyptian population?
The above doesn't even take into account Islamic era gene-flow.
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Lioness, that was not my contention that most of the Egyptian population has its origins in the pre-islamic population. Being that I am an Egyptian I know more about the population demographics than both you and many of my countrymen/woman that are not as learned. I know precise details about various villages in Egypt including the Delta and many rural areas.
You fail to account for the population distribution of pre-Islamic,Islamic and modern Egypt in accordance to modern Egyptians. Since you want to get scientific let's see both the historical and scientific data that Mubarak does not have foreign admixture. The burden of proof is on you. Plus I think I clarified this was a personal opinion instead of a fact. This is a casual Egyptology forum and not a journal.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Plus Lioness claim that many Egyptians have unbroken ancestry from ancient Egypt can easily be refute from first hand and second documents from all periods in Egypt's history. Its well known certain tracts of land in rural and urban Egypt was inhabited by foreign groups.
Most academics generally regard the Copts are the purest ancient Egyptians simply based on linguists but they are wrong. The purest Egyptians tend to be the poor Egyptians and also the ones that have rural origins. Be they Coptic or Muslim these groups have minimal modern admixture. Of course it does not make them pristine.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctore: Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras.
Question #1: What about modern Egypt do you see as culturally the same as AE?
Question #2: Where in the modern population of Egypt do you see people who look like the AE?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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That has nothing to do with skin color. Dark skinned Egyptians who resemble Nubians in the vicinity of Luxor and Aswan are equally ethnically Egyptian in comparison to lighter skinned Egyptians from the Delta. Dark skin doesn't equal Nubian. Nubians speak their own Nilo-Saharan language and practice their own unique culture, distinct from their fellow dark skinned Upper Egyptian counterparts. Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. [/QUOTE]
I am speaking in general terms here. I know who the Nubian are. You said "If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry." Yes they would..If a dark skinned egyptian where to come up to Cairo for some sort of business ordeal, rather then being classified as Egyptian, he would be seen as Nubian. I am speaking in terms of the average Cairo Masrawi(Egyptian) perception(that has been tainted by the mainstream propaganda). Whether a dark skinned individual is nubian ethnically or not they are perceived and labeled as nubian. If a light skinned Syrian(example Omer Sharif) born and raised in egypt were to be seen on the streets there is not question whether or not he/she is egyptian. No one will question his ethnic background, he would automatically be seen as 100% Egyptian. I am speaking of the perception people have of the today'sEgyptian Ethnic identity... there is conjecture to it.
Here is a interview with Egyptian band group from upper Egypt who are egyptian, and they talk about how they are seen as Nubian when in actuality they are ordinary Egyptians, but because of their dark skin they are automatically perceived as from Nubia.
I am speaking of perception of the people. Plus someone like Omer Sharif, is classified as Egyptian.
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multisphinx - The Old Doctore is just another Turk, or Turk mulatto, talking racist nonsense in order to justify their occupation of Egypt.
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Hay MultiSphinx so they are a mixed music band, that much I picked up how is the reggae scene over there in Egypt? and could you do a rough translation please?? I want get more out of this interview.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Well basically, here is a brief bio they put on their page-
Why Blactheama ?
Not only because they are dark skinned , but also cause they present a mix between the dark skinned in the world like “ REGGH, BLUES, JAZZ , HIP HOP , R & B , and Nubian Music “ and all this is presented in the slang language which taken from the Egyptian streets.
The project of the group:
It is trying to search for a relation between the music of the dark skinned in the world and mix it with so simple and useful words in an easy way that makes the normal street people understand this music without any complication.
“So simply our project is presenting an alternative song “
When was the Group founded?
It was founded on 2004 on the hands of AMIR SALAH who was having before a group called “KARISMA” with a friend of him MOHAMED ABDO , and then in one of their shows they met MOHAMED BAHR and they loved his voice so much and from this moment they decided to make a new group with a new name and that was BLACKTHEAMA.
The interview explains briefly about how they want to amalgamate different styles of "black" music into their music. Everything from American Hiphop/rap/rnb to reggae etc.. all with the egyptian twist. Really if you think about it its a marketing tactic to make their music standout in the mainstream. The music industry in Cairo is there to serve the Middle East. The Target market is the Gulf and Sham(Syria,Lebanon,etc.). And the Egyptian people try their best to emulate it as much as possible(you see how egyptian women try and lighten their skin with creams and so on). Hiphop is becoming popular and is finding its way into many cultures around the world. So carrying that as their banner is a pretty good marketing strategy on their part.
Their are other Egyptians making their way into the Arab music industry that don't fall into your stereotypical "Egyptian".
You probably already noticed they stand out from the crowd in their videos. It shows you how the egyptian music industry is really not there to serve the egyptian people but elite and the people of middle east.
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^Glad to see Black Egyptians are trying to connect with "New World" Blacks.
Brada-Anansi - You might want to tell them about true "Coconuts" music, not just Reggae. Great variety there, and it is more African than Reggae or Hip Hop.
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Man Multisphinx, Those videos are nice....Its good to see African Egyptians and Moroccans getting a Foothold in the Industries of Arabia.
I remember BlackTheama from a while back...Someone posted that same Video Before about that Group.
You only hope the Egyptians can see that bleaching is wrong and should not happen. People with Darkskin should know they are Black and Beautiful and don't need to bleach the color out of there skin.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: multisphinx - The Old Doctore is just another Turk, or Turk mulatto, talking racist nonsense in order to justify their occupation of Egypt.
I'm Doctoris Scientia, half Tuareg/half Songhai... no Turk. Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2011
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That has nothing to do with skin color. Dark skinned Egyptians who resemble Nubians in the vicinity of Luxor and Aswan are equally ethnically Egyptian in comparison to lighter skinned Egyptians from the Delta. Dark skin doesn't equal Nubian. Nubians speak their own Nilo-Saharan language and practice their own unique culture, distinct from their fellow dark skinned Upper Egyptian counterparts. Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras.
I am speaking in general terms here. I know who the Nubian are. You said "If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry." Yes they would..If a dark skinned egyptian where to come up to Cairo for some sort of business ordeal, rather then being classified as Egyptian, he would be seen as Nubian. I am speaking in terms of the average Cairo Masrawi(Egyptian) perception(that has been tainted by the mainstream propaganda). Whether a dark skinned individual is nubian ethnically or not they are perceived and labeled as nubian. If a light skinned Syrian(example Omer Sharif) born and raised in egypt were to be seen on the streets there is not question whether or not he/she is egyptian. No one will question his ethnic background, he would automatically be seen as 100% Egyptian. I am speaking of the perception people have of the today'sEgyptian Ethnic identity... there is conjecture to it.
Here is a interview with Egyptian band group from upper Egypt who are egyptian, and they talk about how they are seen as Nubian when in actuality they are ordinary Egyptians, but because of their dark skin they are automatically perceived as from Nubia.
I am speaking of perception of the people. Plus someone like Omer Sharif, is classified as Egyptian. [/QUOTE]
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Although this was not addressed to me I will try to answer at least one of your questions.
The culture of the rural fellahin has many vestiges of the older culture in folklore and funerary culture. Many anthropologist have studied and documented survivals of customs of the ancient Egyptians which may constitute survivals. Much is up for debate but most traditions have no tie to Islam or Christianity of the majority.
I agree with you that the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians is hard to find within most of the modern Egyptians but it still in traces amongst the rural Egyptians.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: I am speaking in general terms here. I know who the Nubian are. You said "If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry." Yes they would..If a dark skinned egyptian where to come up to Cairo for some sort of business ordeal, rather then being classified as Egyptian, he would be seen as Nubian. I am speaking in terms of the average Cairo Masrawi(Egyptian) perception(that has been tainted by the mainstream propaganda). Whether a dark skinned individual is nubian ethnically or not they are perceived and labeled as nubian. If a light skinned Syrian(example Omer Sharif) born and raised in egypt were to be seen on the streets there is not question whether or not he/she is egyptian. No one will question his ethnic background, he would automatically be seen as 100% Egyptian. I am speaking of the perception people have of the today'sEgyptian Ethnic identity... there is conjecture to it.
Here is a interview with Egyptian band group from upper Egypt who are egyptian, and they talk about how they are seen as Nubian when in actuality they are ordinary Egyptians, but because of their dark skin they are automatically perceived as from Nubia.
I am speaking of perception of the people. Plus someone like Omer Sharif, is classified as Egyptian. [/QB]
I can't understand Arabic. Where are those boys from? I found them on facebook and they listed Nubian under genre, why is that?
Thats not entirely the case. If your talking about people on the street, anybody could have their own perceptions on where the people they see on the street are from. But we are talking about public figures... no one would be making up stories of Nubian ancestry if his father had been from Luxor. Tantawi doesn't even look Nubian, and looks more Middle Egyptian or rural Lower Egyptian. Like most half Northeast African/half Western Eurasian individuals/populations, Egyptians tend to look more Western Eurasian. NE African genes are usually swallowed up phenotypically. Therefore it is no coincidence that Lower Egyptians would assume that a person who looks more like them is Egyptian, in contrast to a person who doesn't.
Omer Sharif is Lebanese btw
I'm not denying racism in Egypt either, but I've been to Egypt and the people from Luxor and the surrounding areas are not considered "Nubian" by your average Lower Egyptian. If Tantawi was from Luxor, no one would be calling him "Nubian". For what reason... if he isn't one?
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2011
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One thing that stands out is that being a Nubian does not limit the chance of becoming a top leader of an Country like Egypt
man this stuff does not matter when u have money shooting out of your pockets. half of these people are handpicked to make disruptions amongst the populations. they dont wont unity of general people so they come up with divisions or poverty or whatever works. only in the americas and britain the populous really practice race stuff because they believe in it hardcore whereas in the arab world they believe in money. as long as you follow the euro masters bidding u r cool.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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People in Egypt typically donot distinguish by skin color but dialect. Saidi people and Bahari Egyptians have distinctive dialects and this leads to difference. Other things also signal such as clothing and mannerisms. Nubians have their own distinct culture and dialect.
Infact, many Egyptian Americans returing to their parent's country get made fun of because our Arabic is rusty.
Racism,colorism and ethnocentrism exists in Egypt. Its much more pronounced towards southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: He is the son of an an Egyptian Nubian. He has a very prominent position within the Egyptian military and serves as the defacto ruler.
My husband knew him personally and also former Intelligence Chief and short-time VP of Egypt Omar Suleiman while working in Cairo. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: multisphinx - The Old Doctore is just another Turk, or Turk mulatto, talking racist nonsense in order to justify their occupation of Egypt.
I'm Doctoris Scientia, half Tuareg/half Songhai... no Turk.
It is estimated that the Doctor is 0-4% European
while Mike111 is estimated to be 14% Turkish albino
This is why he endears himself to the Persians and Romans, it comes from his albino ancestry, that feeling of connection
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Thanks MultiSphinx well hopefully with political revolution come social revolution,too many folks in the West,forgot that they underwent the same issues as the folks in Egypt are going through today, as a matter of fact our social revolution is not yet complete we still in some quarters we stil have this lite-skinned vs dark-skinned "good hair" vs "bad hair" thing but fight on and things will change http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtfEmTHeYNw check this out.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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I am not a Somali so I donot know much first hand about the racism amongst Somalis against the Somali Bantu. I have heard some remarks against Somali Bantu such as jereer which I believe refers to the hair texture of Somali Bantus. This is all I know.
As an Egyptian I have heard first hand the derogatory remarks Egyptians throw at southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans. Egyptians say things like oooga booga and make ape noises to Africans walking around in Cairo. Even the darker skinned Egyptians join in at the taunting.
I like sub-saharan Africans and southern Sudanese. Both live a lifestyle similiar to my relatives in baladi neighboorhoods and the rural countryside. Our folk traditions and customs are very similiar. Unfortunately, these traditions in Egypt are dying due to increased Islamization and the spread of western culture.
Very few people care enough to look deeply into the hidden culture that exists within modern Egypt.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I am not a Somali so I donot know much first hand about the racism amongst Somalis against the Somali Bantu. I have heard some remarks against Somali Bantu such as jereer which I believe refers to the hair texture of Somali Bantus. This is all I know.
As an Egyptian I have heard first hand the derogatory remarks Egyptians throw at southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans. Egyptians say things like oooga booga and make ape noises to Africans walking around in Cairo. Even the darker skinned Egyptians join in at the taunting.
I like sub-saharan Africans and southern Sudanese. Both live a lifestyle similiar to my relatives in baladi neighboorhoods and the rural countryside. Our folk traditions and customs are very similiar. Unfortunately, these traditions in Egypt are dying due to increased Islamization and the spread of western culture.
Very few people care enough to look deeply into the hidden culture that exists within modern Egypt.
Ausar
Given the varied physiognomy of your so-called sub-saharan Africans, how do Egyptians tell the difference between a dark skinned Egyptian and a dark skined so called sub-saharan?
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I am not a Somali so I donot know much first hand about the racism amongst Somalis against the Somali Bantu. I have heard some remarks against Somali Bantu such as jereer which I believe refers to the hair texture of Somali Bantus. This is all I know.
As an Egyptian I have heard first hand the derogatory remarks Egyptians throw at southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans. Egyptians say things like oooga booga and make ape noises to Africans walking around in Cairo. Even the darker skinned Egyptians join in at the taunting.
I like sub-saharan Africans and southern Sudanese. Both live a lifestyle similiar to my relatives in baladi neighboorhoods and the rural countryside. Our folk traditions and customs are very similiar. Unfortunately, these traditions in Egypt are dying due to increased Islamization and the spread of western culture.
Very few people care enough to look deeply into the hidden culture that exists within modern Egypt.
Ausar
Given the varied physiognomy of your so-called sub-saharan Africans, how do Egyptians tell the difference between a dark skinned Egyptian and a dark skined so called sub-saharan?
Lion!
In my experience it has nothing to do with skin color. In most cases the immgigrants/refugees who come to Egypt, can't speak the language, or their Arabic is rusty, this is an indication that they are foreign to the land(However, those who are born in egypt are able to assimilate better then those who are not). Xenophobia in most cases is the reason for the taunting. As you have seen on TV for the past several weeks; indicates the desperation the Egyptian people are going through to put food on the table for their kids. 60% of population makes under 2 dollars a day. This should indicative why Xenophobia is prevalent in Egypt. If foreigners are coming and taking jobs, its making it harder for those living in Egypt to make a living. The current population of Egypt is more then 100 million. It is said that there is about a couple million immigrants/refugees from surrounding African nations as well as Palestine. But all in all skin color is not the basis for their taunting.
There is color-ism in Egypt. This is amongst the people of Egypt to some degree. The elite Arabs,Turks, Syrians, etc... are lighter skinned and feel a sense of superiority to the darker skinned Egyptians. This happens all over the world BRAZIL(European decent feel superior to the colored population), Somalia(Ashraf,Reer Xamar,Shin shiyo, Barawaa.. in most cases its just tribalism at it worst.. and if your bantu it even worse), India(we all know of the caste system), Dominicans(European decent feel superior),etc... Happens all over the world; Asia, Africa, every where. Colonization of the past and western culture has bred this disease in the hearts of men. The disease that the lighter you are the more superior/civilized/pristine you are. Its absurd! but it takes enlightenment to overcome this arrogance due to ignorance.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Khosian man from similar distance from the equator
wooden sculpture of Thutmose III
Mohamed Hussein Tantawi
Why are you comparing a North African of recent Eurasian ancestry with aboriginal Africans?? This is about as stupid as your pictures comparisons between Tutankhamun and Indians. LOLPosts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Iron Lion, most of the darker Egyptians tend to be physically distinct from most sub-saharan. You have to consider that most of the sub-saharans come from western African countries like Liberia and are typically darker in complexion than even the darkest Egyptian. Therefore, they are physicall and distinct and stick out more so than most Somalis,Eriterians and Ethiopians. I realize that Somalians,Eritreians and Ethiopians are sub-saharan Africans but most tend to consider them different than western Africans. People anybody jumps on me I realize that western Africa and central Africa are diverse but most of the ones in Cairo stick out in Egypt.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Iron Lion, most of the darker Egyptians tend to be physically distinct from most sub-saharan. You have to consider that most of the sub-saharans come from western African countries like Liberia and are typically darker in complexion than even the darkest Egyptian. Therefore, they are physicall and distinct and stick out more so than most Somalis,Eriterians and Ethiopians. I realize that Somalians,Eritreians and Ethiopians are sub-saharan Africans but most tend to consider them different than western Africans. People anybody jumps on me I realize that western Africa and central Africa are diverse but most of the ones in Cairo stick out in Egypt.
Ausar
Please answer... where is this man below from?
Will he be treated as your "so-called subsaharen" in Egypt?
How is he different from the dark skin Egyptians?
Will he stick out like a sore thumb?
Tell me how you can determine whether he is a dark skin Egyptian or your so-called subsaharan just by eyeballing him on the street?
Waiting for your response...
Some other pix:
Who is the black Egyptian and who is not?
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
The man wearing the keffiyeh could be a bedouin from the western desert. Since he is a Arabic speaker most Egyptians would treat him better than a western African or southern Sudanese. I don't know which bedawi group he comes from but he could possibly be either from Sinai,the red sea or western desert.
1. Kids in the first picture are Egyptians either from Aswan or Luxor. They would probably be considered asmar to most Egyptians but I guess to some they would be aswad. Unfortunately, alot of the more ignorant Cairene and Alexandrian Egyptians would probably say they were Nubian instead of Saidi. I could personally distinguish them from most of the sub-Saharan refugees in Cairo and definately from the southern Sudanese.
2.The people in here are definately sa3eedi people. Most likely Aswani or Luxor Egyptians. They would be considered black in America but not in Egypt.
3.He is an Aswani Egyptian. Most of the darker Egyptians tend to be around his color. I could easily distinguish him from most sub-Saharan refugees and southern Sudanese. Would not be considered either in modern Egypt.
4. That's Cheikh Anata Diop. I think some Egyptians resemble him but there numbers are small.
5. That was the local guide for Dr. Ben. I believe he was from the Luxor area. There are Egyptians like him but still few in numbers.
Again my point was that the present sub-Saharan refugees in Cairo get treated bad and most are distinct from even most dark skinned Egyptians. This does mean randomly you will not find an Egyptian that resembles a sub-Saharan but that its not a commonplace. Especially not in Cairo where mostly of the population are Bahari Egyptians.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: So post me the examples of your so-called sub-saharans who live in present day Egypt today that differ from the above pictures...
Just an example. From Egypt...
Mind you Sudan is not a so called subsaharan country. It is saharan just like upper Egypt.
You can now go ahead and post your examples.
I will help out:
How do your so-called sub-saharans below differ from your dark skin Egyptians...?
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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