quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Awlaadberry, I'm not saying there's nothing good about Arabs but wat do you think is good about Arabs?
Is this thread about what I think is good about my people or is it about slavery? I asked you to speak about this. Why won't you:
Lioness et al,
Do you care to speak a little about this:
Slavery was common practice in Africa before interaction with Colonial Europeans ever took place. The kings like that of the Asanti and Dahomey were barbaric in war, and waged endless war against their neighbors. Survivors of conquered villages were brought back as slaves. They began selling these slaves to the Europeans in return for muskets and other goods. As recent as the 1890s, slaves were more a commodity in trading than even gold. This new market caused an explosion in the conquest practice across the region, and continued long after the Europeans abandoned participation in it. These kingdoms were adamant against ending the trade, and even into 1840, King Gezo of the Dahomey would do anything the British requested, save end the slave trade, saying “The slave trade is the ruling principle of my people. It is the source and the glory of their wealth…the mother lulls the child to sleep with notes of triumph over an enemy reduced to slavery…”
You were reluctant to acknowledge the bad so I switched to the good. No I don't like what the Dahomey did either, it was horrible. -Asanti as well Now please answer my question. What are some good things about Arabs? I think there are some good things and I even had a thread about it. but I'm not sure how you would answer this question in particular.
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So next time someone brings up the Asante the Kings of Ghana the Bantu of the Congo and the peoples of Dahomey and Bornu and Borgou, be suere to bring up slavery so that we are sure you are not typecasting.
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quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Awlaad the arabs didnt defeat the romans and persians by themselves most of those fighters were non arabs.
Anyone trying to say arabs didnt take slaves is a fool. Arabs didnt bring islam to africa inorder to better the life and righteousness of africans please.
UNESCO had a conference on slavery in eastafrica and the indian Ocean. They invited 50 arab scholars and not a single one showed up little kaffir bitches.
Ausar,Awlaaad,and Dana you seem to be hiding from the question that arabs inslaved many africans. Ausar even rambling about how arabs treated there slaves kindly and made them part of the family shut the **** up please.
I have no respect for arabs at all even Coptic christians in egypt are a bunch of racist idiots.
Im getting tired of this arabs black bullshit they aint black and never will be black they are a bunch of kaffirs period.
AswaniAswad - Though I certainly have no admiration for the Arabs, the Turks, or their Mulattoes. I think that it is important that you not allow your thinking to be clouded by emotionalism like so many do.
The fact is that the Arabs WERE Black, and those in the interior, and the south, still are.
Roll up to the Bumper baby.
Southwest Arabia During the Holocene: Recent Archaeological Developments.
Abstract Recent fieldwork has considerably increased our knowledge of early Holocene settlement in Southwest Arabia. Neolithic settlement occurred within an environmental context of increased monsoonal moisture that continued during the mid-Holocene. A now well-attested Bronze Age exemplified by village- and town-scale settlements occupied by sedentary farmers developed toward the end of the mid-Holocene moist interval. The high plateau of Yemen was an early focus for the development of Bronze Age complex society, the economy of which relied upon terraced rain-fed and runoff agriculture. On the fringes of the Arabian desert, the precursors of the Sabaean literate civilization have been traced back to between 3600 and 2800 B.P., and even earlier, so that a virtually continuous archaeological record can now be described for parts of Yemen. In contrast to the highlands these societies relied upon food production from large-scale irrigation systems dependent upon capricious wadi floods. Bronze Age settlement, while showing some links with the southern Levant, now shows equal or stronger linkages with the Horn of Africa across the Red Sea. Although some regions of Yemen show breaks in occupation, others show continuity into the Sabaean period when a series of major towns grew up in response to the incense trade with the north. It is now clear that these civilizations grew up on the foundations of earlier Bronze Age complex societies.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: What about Arabia? Did you ever think of looking there for Arabians?
ARABS IN ARABIA FOR LIONESS
quote: For the J, the West (37.5%) and Southeast (25.7%) regions have higher frequencies than the Central (17.6%) and North (16.3%) regions. Heterogeneity in the whole Peninsula is also significant .... being Saudi Arabia (21%) and Qatar (17.8%) the two countries with the highest J frequencies.[/i]
However, This is mainly due to the comparatively high frequency of sub-Saharan lineages in Yemen (38%) compared to Oman-Qatar (16%) and to Saudi Arabia-UAE (10%). Most probably, the higher frequencies shown in southern countries reflect their greater proximity to Africa, separated only by the Bab al Mandab strait. However, when attending to the relative contribution of the different L haplogroups, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Yemen are highly similar for their L3 (34%), L2 (36%) and L0 (21%) frequencies whereas in Oman and UAE the bulk of L lineages belongs to L3 (72%).
Two potential migratory routes followed by modern humans to colonize Eurasia from Africa have been proposed. These are the two natural passageways that connect both continents: the northern route through the Sinai Peninsula and the southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait.
Recent archaeological and genetic evidence have favored a unique southern coastal route. Under this scenario, the study of the population genetic structure of the Arabian Peninsula, the first step out of Africa, to search for primary genetic links between Africa and Eurasia, is crucial.
The haploid and maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) molecule has been the most used genetic marker to identify and to relate lineages with clear geographic origins, as the African Ls and the Eurasian M and N that have a common root with the Africans L3.
"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
Under these suppositions, the Arabian Peninsula, as an obliged step between East Africa and South Asia, has gained crucial importance, and indeed several mtDNA studies have recently been published for this region [30-32]. However, it seems that the bulk of the Arab mtDNA lineages have northern Neolithic or more recent Asian or African origins....
~Khaled K Abu-Amero et al.
Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
Western historians attempt to offset their own role in slavery by inditing Arabs of the same atrocities they are clearly guilty of.
Yet there are hundreds of books on the Trans Atlantic slave trade and numerous movies. On the Arab slave trade, about four or five books. And slavery still exists
quote:Originally posted by ausar:You are ignorance of my stance on Arabs and also get too emotionally involved in discussion.
One of the issues here is "are the Arabs black?" If they are blacks then your stance would be on blacks
And there are barely books on ancient Arab populations from the SOUTH of the Arabs Peninsula!!!!
quote: We use high-resolution genetic data to investigate the genetic and linguistic support for hypotheses concerning the population history in the Chad Basin. The mitochondrial L3f3 haplogroup is found almost exclusively in Chadic speaking populations and its TMRCA corresponds well with archaeological and linguistic dates of the proposed migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists from East or North East Africa to the Chad Basin.
Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
..."The youngest clade, L3f1b2, seems to be more frequent in the Middle East. L3f1a seems to be older (37,700 ± 10,000 YBP) than its sister sub-haplogroup L3f1b and is also less diversified. A few samples from Chad belong to these sub-haplogroups: two to L3f1a and one to L3f1b3."
"We then estimated pairwise FST genetic distances between populations (Additional file 4) and displayed these on a MDS plot (Figure 3). Interesting results are immediately evident – while Chadic populations form a relatively homogeneous group, the Cushitic populations split into two completely different clusters. The first group is composed of Horn of African populations, such as Ethiopian and Somali Cushitic populations, which are close to neighbouring Ethiopian Semitic speaking groups and relatively close also to Chadic people from the Chad Basin. The second Cushitic group is composed by more southern groups from Tanzania, i.e. Burunge and Iraqw, who occupy outlier positions even within the Afro-Asiatic MDS plot. In the MDS plot, geography is more strongly associated with genetic distance than is linguistic affiliation.
Overall, we observe that Chadic speaking populations are intermixed with other populations from Chad Basin, including Niger-Congo, Semitic, and Berber speaking people. In this context, it seems that the linguistic categories play a secondary role in structuring the genetic diversity."
~Viktor Černý1 et al.
Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
another Troll Patty attempt to change the topic from the Arab slave trade to who the Arabs were,
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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This is your history. Now...who is real and who is fake?looooool
Introduction:
Slaves
Not everyone was free to come and go as he or she liked. Some people were slaves or 'thralls'. Slaves did the hardest, dirtiest jobs. People could be born slaves. The child of a slave mother and father was a slave too, but the child of a slave mother and a free father was free. Many slaves were people captured in a Viking raid. Viking traders sold slaves in markets, but slave-trading in England was stopped in 1102.
The Aristocracy - The Anglo-Saxon territory was divided into seven separate kingdoms commonly referred to as the heptarchy. Each kingdom was ruled by a king, the king's sons who were called aethlings and the ruling nobility known as the eoldermen. (Anglo-Saxon village) The basic unit of land was called the hide which was enough land to support one family and varied in size from 40 acres to 4 square miles. Approximately one hundred hides formed the unit known as the 'hundred', and each village or shire contained many hundreds. (another Anglo-Saxon village) For each hundred, one leader known as the 'hundred eolder' was responsible for administration, justice, and supplying military troops, as well as, leading its forces. The office was not hereditary, but by the tenth century the office was selected from among a few outstanding families.
The thane, similar to the knight, stood at the lowest echelon of the aristocracy. Good service by a thane resulted in gifts, the granting of lands, and elevation to eolderman. Members of the clergy held the title of thane as they were considered one of 'God's thanes', and bishops generally held the position of eolderman.
The Middle Class - The middle class was divided into three main classes of freemen, also known as ceorls: The geneatas, a peasant aristocracy who paid rent to their overlord, the kotsetlas, and the geburs, or lower middle class. All ceorls had the right and duty to serve in the fyrd, which was the Anglo-Saxon military. Ceorls won promotion through economic prosperity or military service. If a ceorl possessed five hides of land, he became entitled to the rights of a thane, but could not be elevated to the position of thane or eolderman.
The lower class - At the lowest end of the social strata was the slave or bondsmen, also known as the theow. Although they were slaves or bondsmen, they were entitled to certain provisions, such as grain. The slaves were allowed to own property and could earn money in their spare time which allowed them to buy their freedom. When times were difficult people sold themselves into slavery to ensure they were provisioned.
The early Anglo-Saxon society was organized around clans or tribes and was centered around a system of reciprocity called comitatus. The eoldorman expected martial service and loyalty from his thanes, and the thanes expected protection and rewards from the lord. By the middle of the ninth century the royal family of Wessex was universally recognized as the English royal family and held a hereditary right to rule. Succession to the throne was not guaranteed as the witan, or council of leaders, had the right to choose the best successor from the members of the royal house.
The military organization - As stated above, the military organization was called the fyrd, which consisted of highly trained thanes chosen from each hundred. Thanes became 'professional' warriors because their position within the society depended upon it. In peace time the thanes had to serve one month out of every three in rotation, so there was always a sizeable force on call. Loyalty to a lord was the greatest virtue for the thane, and if their lord or king died in battle, his men were expected to die avenging his death, as it was considered dishonorable to leave the battlefield on which the military leader had been slain. Those who did were executed by their lord's successor for their disloyalty. The Fyrd also served as a police force when not at war.
Religion and the role of the church - (St Alpheges church) (St. Wereburg) Besides the spiritual functions of the church, the Church also fulfilled the functions of a 'civil service', and for the nobility, an educational system. The Church and the government needed men who could read and write in English and Latin to write letters and keep accounts. (illuminated manuscripts) The words 'cleric' and 'clerk' have the same origin, and every nobleman would have at least one priest to act as a secretary.
Economy - The economy of the early middle ages was not cash based. (Anglo-Saxon clothing) Even though coins were minted, their use was not widespread, and most goods were bartered. (jewelry and pottery) Trade relied upon transport to be effective, and water was the preferred method of transport. For this reason, the most successful markets were near rivers.
Slavery was an important part of the Anglo-Saxon economy. Almost all the slaves traded in the early middle ages were captured in raids or warfare. It seems to have been the practice to kill the leaders of the losing army and enslave the local villagers. The English conquest of Cornwall led to the enslavement of many of the indigenous Celts. At the Westminster Council of 1102ce, slavery was abolished.
David Wyatt, Ph.D. (2003) in History, Cardiff University, is the Co-ordinating Lecturer in History at Cardiff University’s Centre for Lifelong Learning.
Slaves and Warriors in Medieval Britain and Ireland,800-1200
Modern sensibilities have clouded historical views of slavery, perhaps more so than any other medieval social institution. Anachronistic economic rationales and notions about the progression of European civilisation have immeasurably distorted our view of slavery in the medieval context. As a result historians have focussed their efforts upon explaining the disappearance of this medieval institution rather than seeking to understand it. This book highlights the extreme cultural/social significance of slavery for the societies of medieval Britain and Ireland c. 800-1200. Concentrating upon the lifestyle, attitudes and motivations of the slave-holders and slave-raiders, it explores the violent activities and behavioural codes of Britain and Ireland’s warrior-centred societies, illustrating the extreme significance of the institution of slavery for constructions of power, ethnic identity and gender.
The Vikings in Ireland
The Vikings first attacked Ireland in 795. They looted monasteries. They also took women and children as slaves. However the Vikings were not only raiders. They were also traders and craftsmen. In the 9th century they founded Ireland's first towns, Dublin, Wexford, Cork and Limerick. They also gave Ireland its name, a combination of the Gaelic word Eire and the Viking word land. In time the Vikings settled down. They intermarried with the Irish and accepted Christianity.
Around 940 the great High King Brian Boru was born. At that time the Danes had conquered much of the kingdom of Munster. Brian defeated them in several battles. In 968 he recaptured Cashel, the capital of Munster. After 976 Brian was king of Munster and in 1002 he became the High King of Ireland. However in 1014 Leinster, the people of Dublin and the Danes joined forces against him. Brian fought and defeated them at the battle of Clontarf on 23 April 1014, although he was killed himself. This victory ended the Viking threat to Ireland.
The Vikings in Iceland
The first people to settle in Iceland were probably Irish monks who came in the 8th century. However in the 9th century they were driven out by Vikings.
According to tradition the first Viking to discover Iceland was a man named Naddoddur who got lost while on his way to the Faeroes. Following him a Swede named Gardar Svavarsson circumnavigated Iceland about 860. However the first Viking attempt to settle was by a Norwegian named Floki Vilgeroason. He landed in the northwest but a severe winter killed his domestic animals and he sailed back to Norway. However he gave the land its name. He called it Iceland.
Then in the late 9th century many settlers came to Iceland from Norway and the Viking colonies in the British Isles. A Norwegian named Ingolfur Arnarson led them. He sailed with his family, slaves and animals.
When he sighted Iceland Ingolfur dedicated his wooden posts to his gods then threw them overboard. He vowed to settle at the place where the sea washed them up. He then explored Iceland. When the posts were found in the southwest Ingolfur and his household settled there. He called the place Reykjavik, meaning Smokey bay. Many other Vikings followed him to Iceland.
The land was free to whoever wanted it. A man could claim as much land as he could light fires around in one day while a woman could claim as much land as she could lead a heifer round in one day.
There were very good fishing grounds around Iceland and the land was well suited to sheep. Many Vikings brought flocks with them and soon sheep became a major Icelandic industry. The population of Iceland soared. By about 930 there were about 60,000 people living in Iceland.
The Peasant's Life.
Villages consisted of from 10-60 families living in rough huts on dirt floors, with no chimneys or windows. Often, one end of the hut was given over to storing livestock. Furnishings were sparse; three legged stools, a trestle table, beds on the floor softened with straw or leaves. The peasant diet was mainly porridge, cheese, black bread, and a few home-grown vegetables.
Peasants had a hard life, but they did not work on Sundays or on the frequent saints' days, and they could go to nearby fairs and markets. The lot of serfs was much harsher.
The Serf's Life.
Although not technically a slave, a serf was bound to a lord for life. He could own no property and needed the lord's permission to marry. Under no circumstance could a serf leave the land without the lord's permission unless he chose to run away. If he ran to a town and managed to stay there for a year and a day, he was a free man. However, the serf did have rights. He could not be displaced if the manor changed hands. He could not be required to fight, and he was entitled to the protection of the lord.
Bye phony7,...
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
But "serf" comes from the Latin "servus" meaning "slave". If you have to get permission from the lord of the land, the landlord to move around, hey, you are a slave. If you are bound to someone for life--and you can't get out or buy yourself out, you're a slave.
"Serf" or any other Anglo Saxon name is just a polite, euphemistic way of saying "slave".
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^Yeah, and Phoenician7 and cohorts need to know their history.
And stop focusing on that of others. Phony7 is a racist bigot.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: awlaadberry or dana what are your thoughts on Arab slavery? How do you think the Arabs handled their slaves? They seemed to have organized and expanded African slavery. They did it their way. Supposedly over a 1400 year period they killed or castrated a lot of African men and millions died on long import routes. They seemed to prefer female slaves for sex and household duties.
Ottoman's weren't "Arab" LYIN_ss and neither were the TUrks and Persians who controlled the Abbasid dynasties. So your whole question needs modification. If you are talking about the ancient or true Arabs in Arabia and the early Arab world - that slavery was focused mainly on the north and not Africa.
Genetic diversity among the Arabs.
AuthorsTeebi AS, et al. Show all Journal Community Genet. 2005;8(1):21-6.
Abstract
The Arabs in general are genetically diverse. Major factors that contributed to their diversity include the migrations of Semitic tribes from the Arabian Peninsula, the Islamic expansion in the 7th century AD, the Crusade wars and the recent migration dynamics. These events have resulted in the admixture of the original Arabs with other populations extending from east and south Asia to Europe and Africa. Their demographic features include high rates of consanguinity, a large family size and a rapid population growth. There is a high frequency of autosomal recessive disorders and increased frequencies of homozygosity for autosomal dominant traits, such as familial hypercholesterolemia and X-linked traits, such as glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency. The patterns of autosomal recessive disorders, including their mutations, may be different in various geographic locations within the Arab world. However, there are disorders that are specifically prevalent among the Arabs either uniformly or in certain locations. The Arab Genetic diseases include Bardet-Biedl syndrome, Meckel syndrome, autosomal recessive severe childhood muscular dystrophy, osteopetrosis and renal tubular acidosis, Sanjad-Sakati syndrome and others.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Dumb one, slavery in Arabia goes back to pre-Isamic times. The Muslims later organized and greatly expanded it. It included multi millions of Africans, many of the males killed, others frequently castrated the majority dying on long treks while being transported. The Arabian slave trade included blacks and a smaller number of whites. Nubia had been "supply zone" for slaves since antiquity. The Ethiopian coast, particularly the port of Massawa and Dahlak Archipelago, had long been a hub for the exportation of slaves from the interior, even in Aksumite times. The port and most coastal areas were largely Muslim, and the port itself was home to a number of Arab and Indian merchants.
see > Pankhurst, Richard. The Ethiopian Borderlands: Essays in Regional History from Ancient Times to the End of the 18th Century (Asmara, Eritrea: Red Sea Press, 1997), pp.416
The best way to get a true picture of what the original Arabs of the past looked like is to ask the original Arabs of the past themselves. So let's take a look at what the original, pure Arabs of 1400 years ago said about the appearance of the pure Arabs.
Let's begin with Miskeen Al Darimi the well-known, pure-blooded Arab poet of the 7th century AD. Miskeen is his nickname, but his real name is Rabee' the son of 'Aamir the son of Unaif the son of Shaarih the son of 'Amru the son of Zaid the son of Abdellah the son of 'Uds the son of Darim the son of Malik the son of Handhala the son of Zaid Manah the son of Tamim the son of Murr the son of Udd the son of Taabikha the son of Yaas the son of Mudar the son of Nizar the son Ma'add the son of Adnan.
It's a known fact that Miskeen was black-skinned. He once proposed to a girl and she rejected him because of his blackness and his poorness. The girl later married a rich man who was from a tribe not as pure Arab as Miskeen's tribe. Miskeen one day saw the the girl who rejected him because of his blackness and poorness sitting with her husband, who was from a tribe not as pure as Miskeen's tribe. Miskeen stopped and said to them:
"I am Miskeen, for those who know me. My color is dark, the color of the Arabs."
Need I say more? Didn't Miskeen, the famous, 7th century, pure-blooded, black-skinned Arab from the famous Arab tribes of Banu Darim and Banu Tamim, say enough when he said that his black complexion is the color of the Arabs? Aren't Miskeen's revealing words enough proof that the original, pure Arabs were black-skinned? Would black-skinned Miskeen, who was a pure Arab from a pure Arab tribe, say that his black complexion was the color of the Arabs if his tribe (Banu Darim and Banu Tamim) and the Arabs he lived amongst weren't a black-skinned people?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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