posted
As I said at ESR. There is no DNA Tribes "deception". "John Q Public" can take the available data from the JAMA report and enter it into many free and online Profile software and ALL software will spit out that the closest ethnic match to the Amarnas are Africans and A. Diasporans. End of story.
This can be done without DNATribes software or database. The really embarassing thing is the genetic "experts" on this board did not have a clue until DNATribes stepped in to show how to do the calculation. Now, ANYONE can do it.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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"DNA Tribes debunks their own claims, as well as other geneticists meanwhile the negrocentrics continue to wrap themselves in yet another layer of denial.."
The ancient Egyptians were tropical adapted Africans from the Sahel and Sahara region. Point blank! If they came directly from the holocene into Africa, they would have been cold adapted, which isn't the case! Point blank!
Genetic Patterns of Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Variation, with Implications to the Peopling of the Sudan
By :: Hisham Yousif Hassan Mohamed Supervisor :: Muntaser Eltayeb Ibrahim, University of Khartoum
The area known today as Sudan may have been the scene of pivotal human evolutionary events, both as a corridor for ancient and modern migrations, as well as the venue of crucial past cultural evolution. Several questions pertaining to the pattern of succession of the different groups in early Sudan have been raised. To shed light on these aspects, ancient DNA (aDNA) and present DNA collection were made and studied using Y-chromosome markers for aDNA, and Y-chromosome and mtDNA markers for present DNA. Bone samples from different skeletal elements of burial sites from Neolithic, Meroitic, Post-Meroitic and Christian periods in Sudan were collected from Sudan National Museum. aDNA extraction was successful in 35 out of 76 samples, PCR was performed for sex determination using Amelogenin marker. Fourteen samples were females and 19 were males. To generate Y-chromosome specific haplogroups A-M13, B-M60, F-M89 and Y Alu Polymorphism (YAP) markers, which define the deep ancestral haplotypes in the phylogenetic tree of Y-chromosome were used. Haplogroups A-M13 was found at high frequencies among Neolithic samples. Haplogroup F-M89 and YAP appeared to be more frequent among Meroitic, Post-Meroitic and Christian periods. Haplogroup B-M60 was not observed in the sample analyzed. For extant DNA, Y-chromosome and mtDNA haplogroup variations were studied in 15 Sudanese populations representing the three linguistic families in Sudan by typing the major Y haplogroups in 445 unrelated males, and 404 unrelated individuals were sequenced for the mitochondrial hypervariable region. Y-chromosome analysis shows Sudanese populations falling into haplogroups A, B, E, F, I, J, K, and R in frequencies of 16.9, 8.1, 34.2, 3.1, 1.3, 22.5, 0.9, and 13% respectively. Haplogroups A, B, and E occur mainly in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups including Nilotics, Fur, Borgu, and Masalit; whereas haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group. Mantel test reveal a strong correlation between genetic and linguistic structures (r= 0.30, p= 0.007), and a similar correlation between genetic and geographic distances (r= 0.29, p= 0.025) that appears after removing nomadic pastoralists of no known geographic locality from the analysis. For mtDNA analysis, a total of 56 haplotypes were observed, all belonging to the major sub-Saharan African and Eurasian mitochondrial macrohapolgroups L0, L1, L2, L4, L5, L3A, M and N in frequencies of 12.1, 11.9, 22, 4.2, 6.2, 29.5, 2, and 12.2% respectively. Haplogroups L6 was not observed in the sample analyzed. The considerable frequencies of macrohaplogroup L0 in Sudan is interesting given the fact that this macrohaplogroup occurs near the root of the mitochondrial DNA tree. Afro-Asiatic speaking groups appear to have sustained high gene flow form Nilo-Saharan speaking groups. Mantel test reveal no correlations between genetic, linguistic (r = 0.12, p = 0.14), and geographic distances (r = -0.07, p = 0.67). Accordingly, through limited on number of aDNA samples, there is enough data to suggest and to tally with the historical evidence of the dominance by Nilotic elements during the early state formation in the Nile Valley, and as the states thrived there was a dominance by other elements particularly Nuba/Nubians. In Y-chromosome terms this mean in simplest terms introgression of the YAP insertion (haplogroups E and D), and Eurasian Haplogroups which are defined by F-M89 against a background of haplogroup A-M13. The data analysis of the extant Y-chromosomes suggests that the bulk of genetic diversity appears to be a consequence of recent migrations and demographic events mainly from Asia and Europe, evident in a higher migration rate for speakers of Afro-Asiatic as compared to the Nilo-Saharan family of languages, and a generally higher effective population size for the former. While the mtDNA data suggests that regional variation and diversity in mtDNA sequences in Sudan is likely to have been shaped by a longer history of in-situ evolution and then by human migrations form East, west-central and North Africa and to a lesser extent from Eurasia to the Nile Valley.Download :
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ how is that contributing to the thread? Why not comment on the findings instead?
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Haplogroups A-M13 was found at high frequencies among Neolithic samples.
Interesting that there is more of an overlap with modern Sudanese and Sub-Saharan Africans in terms of crania and limb length, in spite of a larger contribution of Eurasian lineages in more recent Sudanese groups.
The above observation has been used by many writers as evidence for the notion of Caucasian immigrants in the earliest times, which were then gradually accommodated by Sub-Saharan groups. Strouhal, for example, said of early (Neolithic?, Dynastic?) Sudanese:
quote:''In Nubia, according to the analysis of physical anthropology, the original Europoid (Caucasoid) stock of the population was several times overrun by Negroid waves, flowing from the South.''
^It appears the genetic data says the exact opposite happened (i.e., indigenous Africans being overrun by waves of Eurasians).
The genetic data (which essentially shows that many genetically distantly groups have similar metric morphology, e.g., Neolithic Nubians and Somali's) is fully consistent with the more modern interpretation of cranio-metric variation, which factors in the idea that many traits are simply a function of environment.
As more genetic data surfaces, it becomes increasingly clear that the genetic relationship between some so called ''Hamitic'' Nile Valley groups and many West Africans, is much stronger than the genetic ties some Nile Valley groups have with many Horners.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Yep, good find indeed. I have been saying for Ages it does not matter the phenotype of these ancient skeletons may have. We cannot assume populations will have a certain genetic make-up based on how they look.
The most important Early Saharan pastoralists into the Nile Valley were predominantly A3b2. They spoke Nilo Saharan. The most important modern pastoralists still in the Nile Valley are also predominantly A3b2. They also speak Nilo Saharan.
At this period in time the demographics of Sudan is changing as Nilo-Saharans are being pushed even further south. See the situation of the Nuba.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
LOL Indeed, the lyinass worm is just desperate. All the genetic evidence shows that whatever Eurasian genetic influence there was on the Sudan is RECENT. Of course non of this has to do with ANCIENT times. So why don't we let the lyinass get genetic data from ancient Bronze Age to mesolithic Sudanese and Egyptians and call it a day. Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Yep, good find indeed. I have been saying for Ages it does not matter the phenotype of these ancient skeletons may have. We cannot assume populations will have a certain genetic make-up based on how they look.
The most important Early Saharan pastoralists into the Nile Valley were predominantly A3b2. They spoke Nilo Saharan. The most important modern pastoralists still in the Nile Valley are also predominantly A3b2. They also speak Nilo Saharan.
At this period in time the demographics of Sudan is changing as Nilo-Saharans are being pushed even further south. See the situation of the Nuba.
Well, I WOULD say, lets wait for future uniparental analysis, before we go and extrapolate this to Pre-dynastic Egyptians (assuming 'Neolithic' here refers to A-group, as you've said), but some of the levels of B-M60 in modern Egyptian samples speak for themselves.
Hats off to you. You weren't bluffing during your exchange with Zaharan.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
No need to bluff, There is tons of data out that that says the same thing. It just requires a lot of reading to start and put the pieces together. But you have to do some thinking...and start forming your own interesting hypothesis even if they are wrong.
I cannot remember where i read they were A-group nubians but I am sure they were. I think those are the only Neolithic species they have on the museum....PLUS these are the samples which data is regularly used for cranial analysis
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE SUB SAHARAN AFRICANS!!! EXPLOSIVE AND SHOCKING DNA RESULTS!!!!
You see folks, that is why these filthy stringy haired reprobates have fought so hard to tell you that King Tut was not sub saharan African!now we know that his entire family was sub saharan African LOL
I EWILL NOW PRESENT TO YOU THE MAIN REASON THAT THESE FILTHY DEVILS HAVE LIED SO LONG AS IT RELATES TO KING TUT!
THE ARMANA MUMMIES HAVE BEEN DNA TESTED AND ARE SUB SAHARAN AFRICAN!!!!!
WHO ARE THE ARMANA MUMMIES??????
1)Amenhotep III 2)Akhenaten 3)king tut 4)NEFERTITI 5)Queen Tyie 6)Kiya
AND ON AND ON AND ON!!!!! THE AFRMANA MUMMIES ARE KING TUT AND HIS ENTIRE FAMILY!!!! I GUESS THAT BUST OF NEFERTITI IS A FAKE HUH??? HAHAHAHA!!!!!
THEY HAVE ALL BEEN PROVEN TO BE SUB SAHARAN AFRICAN!!!!!
The results of the Genetic Analysis of Amarna Mummies (King Tut and Family) are IN! It is important to remember that DNA does not lie, it does not make mistakes and it plays no favorites! Having said that!!!!
King Tut and his family were sub Saharan African from west Africa, Central Africa and South Africa! Are you hearing this????? The modern day people in West Africa south Africa and Central ALL AFRICAN AMERICANS TAKE NOTICE!!!!! THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS ARE YOUR ANCESTORS!!!! DNA PROVES THIS!!!!
Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians!!!!! While the modern day people in the horn of Africa share very miniscule amounts! NEXT TO NOTHING! TO BE MORE EXACT! and its not my opinion either! its what the DNA indicates! WOW!!!! I guess when African Americans call the Ancient Egyptians their ancestors they sure arent lying are they?
now that the DNA analysis of the Amarna Pharaohs (KING TUT AND HIS FAMILY) has concluded that the autosomal STR profiles of the Amarna period mummies were most frequent in modern populations in
1)South Africa 2)central Africa 3)tropical West Africa
We can stop spinning our wheels looking at the current populations in North Africa and the horn of Africa! The DNA irrefutably PROVES that the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians are the people that now live in SOUTH AFRICA (highest frequency) Tropical west Africa and Central Africa!
Did you know that the ZULUS oral history confirms that they came from Egypt? Take a look at some Zulus and you are looking at what the ancient Egyptians looked like! Go to West Africa and you are looking at the ancestors of the Ancient Egyptians folks!
quote:Originally posted by Vansertimavindicated: I understand how much the reality of the Armana mummies clearly being sub saharan African hurts you white boy! it hurts on so many levels!
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^We are discussing genetics not phenotype kid, your claim in that regard has been debunked on here ad nasuem. Please don't resurrect those petty debates. DNA doesn't lie and that's all that matters.
How accurate is it? As accurate as my own results I'd presume, dumb question.
Ulotrichous hair is a very dominant trait. Just look at Obama, he is only half Nilo-Bantu, but has ulotrichous hair.
These mummies can't be over 75% Nilotic for sure since most of them have cymotrichous hair, a recessive trait relative to ulotrichous hair.
My children all have straight hair so I don't understand what you are talking about.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^We are discussing genetics not phenotype kid, your claim in that regard has been debunked on here ad nasuem. Please don't resurrect those petty debates. DNA doesn't lie and that's all that matters.
How accurate is it? As accurate as my own results I'd presume, dumb question.
Ulotrichous hair is a very dominant trait. Just look at Obama, he is only half Nilo-Bantu, but has ulotrichous hair.
These mummies can't be over 75% Nilotic for sure since most of them have cymotrichous hair, a recessive trait relative to ulotrichous hair.
My children all have straight hair so I don't understand what you are talking about.
I think people who have parents from east Asia normally have straight hair.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: As I said at ESR. There is no DNA Tribes "deception". "John Q Public" can take the available data from the JAMA report and enter it into many free and online Profile software and ALL software will spit out that the closest ethnic match to the Amarnas are Africans and A. Diasporans. End of story.
This can be done without DNATribes software or database. The really embarassing thing is the genetic "experts" on this board did not have a clue until DNATribes stepped in to show how to do the calculation. Now, ANYONE can do it.
I would like to know which dna experts we have (supposedly) on Egyptsearch that have attempted to respond to the following on the wannabe hamitic union site that was on your post.
"Re: Real vs. Bogus Affinities of the Ancient Egypt Post by egypt1101 on Jan 10, 2012, 1:00pm
I contacted DNATribes and this is the response they gave. It appears they did not want to admit the study was flawed (out of bias) or that they used so few loci to determine origins:
Thank you for your interest in the recent Digest article. The 8 STR loci tested do not allow a fine level admixture analysis to identify percentages of ancestry from world regions or continents. However, in this case available results indicate the Amarna mummies have inherited several alleles that are most frequent in African populations, which suggests some African ancestry (not necessarily excluding other ancestral components) for these ancient individuals.
Best regards, Lucas Martin DNA Tribes
AND:
Thank you for following up regarding your the recent Digest issue. The presence of some African specific alleles among the Amarna mummies does not necessarily exclude that ancient Egyptian populations were descended from multiple ancestral components (possibly including regional contacts related to modern populations of Egypt).
These preliminary results only suggest that based on the 8 STR markers tested for the Amarna mummies, one of these ancestral components might have been indigenous to Africa.
Best regards, Lucas Martin DNA Tribes
And I contacted Mike at GenDNA. Here is what he had to say:
The testing of only 8 Y-DNA markers would only give you a bare minimum amount of information about the ancestral origin of the direct paternal line. It may not even be enough to definitively place the paternal line in a specific major haplogroup. And, as far as being used for matching with others and finding genealogical connections, 8 markers is inadequate and although a minimum of 25 markers can be used, 37 markers or more are really needed to find meaningful matches. I would recommend the 37-marker test at [...].
So the testing of 8 loci is, as we already know, is extremely unreliable - inadequate - for placement of ancestry. One would expect a different outcome if more markers would have been tested. In fact, I would expect the finding to be more aligned with DNATribes previous article:
The suggestion from DNATribes is unreliable. It goes against everything we know based on the genetic, linguistic, anthropologic and historical information that has been obtained for this NE African population."
I wonder what explorer would say.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:The testing of only 8 Y-DNA markers would only give you a bare minimum amount of information about the ancestral origin of the direct paternal line. It may not even be enough to definitively place the paternal line in a specific major haplogroup. And, as far as being used for matching with others and finding genealogical connections, 8 markers is inadequate and although a minimum of 25 markers can be used, 37 markers or more are really needed to find meaningful matches.
Wasn't it autosomal STRs that were tested by DNATribes?
posted
^Indeed, they were autosomal. Additionally, Omran et al 2008 were perfectly able to cluster modern Egyptians with Middle Easterners, and away from Africans, using the same set of STR markers, and 7 additional ones (15 in total).
If the Pharaonic alleles were the same as that of modern Egyptians, one would expect to see the same picture we get from Omran et al, who, again, used the same markers, among others.
SSA = Africans, UEG = modern Upper Egyptians.
The difference between Omran et al, and DNA tribes' results is obviously due to some of the Pharaonic alleles, which DNA Tribes - along with several ES posters - has confirmed to be African in origin. These alleles are rare among modern Egyptians. This too, has been confirmed.
Therefore, anyone who has issues with DNA Tribes' methods, where this specific digest, and/or amount of the used STRs are concerned, who ignores the alleles themselves, is in denial. The origin of the combined Pharaonic alleles (i.e., the STR profile) need to be shown to be non-African, before supposed flaws are identified elsewhere. Only then will I lend credence to some of the complaints.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^We are discussing genetics not phenotype kid, your claim in that regard has been debunked on here ad nasuem. Please don't resurrect those petty debates. DNA doesn't lie and that's all that matters.
How accurate is it? As accurate as my own results I'd presume, dumb question.
Ulotrichous hair is a very dominant trait. Just look at Obama, he is only half Nilo-Bantu, but has ulotrichous hair.
These mummies can't be over 75% Nilotic for sure since most of them have cymotrichous hair, a recessive trait relative to ulotrichous hair.
My children all have straight hair so I don't understand what you are talking about.
I think people who have parents from east Asia normally have straight hair.
I have quite frizzy hair was my point.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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The difference between Omran et al, and DNA tribes' results is obviously due to some of the Pharaonic alleles, which DNA Tribes - along with several ES posters - has confirmed to be African in origin. These alleles are rare among modern Egyptians. This too, has been confirmed.
link the data on Pharaonic alleles
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You're like a zombie walking around without a head. We've been discussing the article in question for 18 pages, and you still can't recall the little amount of DNATribes' own observations that they added to Hawass et all 2010 (i.e., basically only the MLI scores and the affinity of the alleles). If that is too much information to store in your memory, maybe you don't belong here. You fit better pursuing more mundane matters, such as speculating about the Indian ancestry of King Tut. Go bother someone else about Tiye's hair, will ya?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Swenet throws in the towel on Pharaonic alleles data, tsk tsk
Djehuti does the same thing, can't find the exact info so he says
"it was throughly debunked in this thread here: http/blahblahblah "
then your're supposed to do the work to support his point, just read the 18 page thread and maybe it's in there. Troll Patty is extremely redundant but at least keeps track of the arguments
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
An intersting thing about the DNATribes report:
In the regional Analysis for Individual Amarna Mummies of the 7 mummies analyzed there is only one with significant markers that include outside of Africa as well as African, Yuya (father of Queen Tiye) who is believed by some Egyptologists to have had Mittani ancestry (Hurrian-speaking, Indo-Aryan ruled state in northern Syria and south-east Anatolia)
quote:Swenet throws in the towel on Pharaonic alleles
Can't throw in the towel if I've never committed to engaging you, fool.
quote:An intersting thing about the DNATribes report:
In the regional Analysis for Individual Amarna Mummies of the 7 mummies analyzed there is only one with significant markers that include outside of Africa as well as African, Yuya (father of Queen Tiye) who is believed by some Egyptologists to have had Mittani ancestry (Hurrian-speaking, Indo-Aryan ruled state in northern Syria and south-east Anatolia)
No, what is really interesting, is that the above statement that you're ascribing to DNA Tribes, is nowhere in the pdf. Google doesn't recognize it either. Where did you find it?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Swenet throws in the towel on Pharaonic alleles
Can't throw in the towel if I've never committed to engaging you, fool.
quote:An intersting thing about the DNATribes report:
In the regional Analysis for Individual Amarna Mummies of the 7 mummies analyzed there is only one with significant markers that include outside of Africa as well as African, Yuya (father of Queen Tiye) who is believed by some Egyptologists to have had Mittani ancestry (Hurrian-speaking, Indo-Aryan ruled state in northern Syria and south-east Anatolia)
No, what is really interesting, is that the above statement that you're ascribing to DNA Tribes, is nowhere in the pdf. Google doesn't recognize it either. Where did you find it?
I wrote it. It's my interpretation of the below not intended to be a quote
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^We are discussing genetics not phenotype kid, your claim in that regard has been debunked on here ad nasuem. Please don't resurrect those petty debates. DNA doesn't lie and that's all that matters.
How accurate is it? As accurate as my own results I'd presume, dumb question.
Ulotrichous hair is a very dominant trait. Just look at Obama, he is only half Nilo-Bantu, but has ulotrichous hair.
These mummies can't be over 75% Nilotic for sure since most of them have cymotrichous hair, a recessive trait relative to ulotrichous hair.
My children all have straight hair so I don't understand what you are talking about.
I think people who have parents from east Asia normally have straight hair.
I have quite frizzy hair was my point.
And I wasn't talking about your hair Osirion. You had mentioned your wife was East Asian in ethnicity. Am I right?
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Swenet throws in the towel on Pharaonic alleles
Can't throw in the towel if I've never committed to engaging you, fool.
quote:An intersting thing about the DNATribes report:
In the regional Analysis for Individual Amarna Mummies of the 7 mummies analyzed there is only one with significant markers that include outside of Africa as well as African, Yuya (father of Queen Tiye) who is believed by some Egyptologists to have had Mittani ancestry (Hurrian-speaking, Indo-Aryan ruled state in northern Syria and south-east Anatolia)
No, what is really interesting, is that the above statement that you're ascribing to DNA Tribes, is nowhere in the pdf. Google doesn't recognize it either. Where did you find it?
I wrote it. It's my interpretation of the below not intended to be a quote
Neanderdummy if someone asks for your interpretation of some scientific material than you can change the authors words? Until then I would suggest you stick with your usual plagiarizing wihtout quotes.
I guess I should be sticking with your old title of Lyin_ss for my sake. Becaues I tend to forget what your really about. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:The testing of only 8 Y-DNA markers would only give you a bare minimum amount of information about the ancestral origin of the direct paternal line. It may not even be enough to definitively place the paternal line in a specific major haplogroup. And, as far as being used for matching with others and finding genealogical connections, 8 markers is inadequate and although a minimum of 25 markers can be used, 37 markers or more are really needed to find meaningful matches.
Wasn't it autosomal STRs that were tested by DNATribes?
Oops, yes - I hadn't even noticed the mistatement, just shows how messed up Euronut analyis of things can get when desperation sets in.lol!
And to think for a few days I had the notion this guy might have had some knowledge of what he was talking about.
Case closed. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Indeed, they were autosomal. Additionally, Omran et al 2008 were perfectly able to cluster modern Egyptians with Middle Easterners, and away from Africans, using the same set of STR markers, and 7 additional ones (15 in total).
If the Pharaonic alleles were the same as that of modern Egyptians, one would expect to see the same picture we get from Omran et al, who, again, used the same markers, among others.
SSA = Africans, UEG = modern Upper Egyptians.
The difference between Omran et al, and DNA tribes' results is obviously due to some of the Pharaonic alleles, which DNA Tribes - along with several ES posters - has confirmed to be African in origin. These alleles are rare among modern Egyptians. This too, has been confirmed.
Therefore, anyone who has issues with DNA Tribes' methods, where this specific digest, and/or amount of the used STRs are concerned, who ignores the alleles themselves, is in denial. The origin of the combined Pharaonic alleles (i.e., the STR profile) need to be shown to be non-African, before supposed flaws are identified elsewhere. Only then will I lend credence to some of the complaints.
I've been reading up on STRs too and it seems they are considered by dnatribes to be far more accurate than looking at haplotypes. I don't know or remember all the reasons behind this but they did mention it somewhere. Can you elaborate on the difference between autosomal sampling of STRs and the haplotype analyses, Swenet.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:I wrote it. It's my interpretation of the below not intended to be a quote
Well, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about. MLI scores indicate the likelihood that a given STR profile is found somewhere, compared to the likelihood that it is found in the world, not that Yuya was part African, part non-African, dummy. Being the absolute unapologetic retard that you are, you come in here talking about the Mitanni being candidates for Yuya's ancestry, when the report strongly contradicts that suggestion; the Mesopotamian MLI score for Yuya is lower than even the world as a whole.
You just don't know when to stop, do you?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Indeed, they were autosomal. Additionally, Omran et al 2008 were perfectly able to cluster modern Egyptians with Middle Easterners, and away from Africans, using the same set of STR markers, and 7 additional ones (15 in total).
If the Pharaonic alleles were the same as that of modern Egyptians, one would expect to see the same picture we get from Omran et al, who, again, used the same markers, among others.
SSA = Africans, UEG = modern Upper Egyptians.
The difference between Omran et al, and DNA tribes' results is obviously due to some of the Pharaonic alleles, which DNA Tribes - along with several ES posters - has confirmed to be African in origin. These alleles are rare among modern Egyptians. This too, has been confirmed.
Therefore, anyone who has issues with DNA Tribes' methods, where this specific digest, and/or amount of the used STRs are concerned, who ignores the alleles themselves, is in denial. The origin of the combined Pharaonic alleles (i.e., the STR profile) need to be shown to be non-African, before supposed flaws are identified elsewhere. Only then will I lend credence to some of the complaints.
I've been reading up on STRs too and it seems they are considered by dnatribes to be far more accurate than looking at haplotypes. I don't know or remember all the reasons behind this but they did mention it somewhere. Can you elaborate on the difference between autosomal sampling of STRs and the haplotype analyses, Swenet.
From what I understand, haplotypes are combinations of alleles, while STR loci are regions on our chromosomes. The following STR loci have been standardized for research, probably because they yield the best results, or some other benefit:
Alleles are the amount of repeated pieces of DNA, and so, alleles are expressed in the following manner:
-D21S11=34
meaning, at D21S11 (see the chart above), there are 34 repeats of a piece of DNA. This amount is a single allele, that is either inherited from someones mother or father. So, aside from D21S11=34, that person will also have another value at D21S11, which is inherited from the other parent.
So, when 8 STRs are examined, and alleles are shown of both parents, we get the following picture:
quote:I wrote it. It's my interpretation of the below not intended to be a quote
Well, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about. MLI scores indicate the likelihood that a given STR profile is found somewhere, compared to the likelihood that it is found in the world, not that Yuya was part African, part non-African, dummy. Being the absolute unapologetic retard that you are, you come in here talking about the Mitanni being candidates for Yuya's ancestry, when the report strongly contradicts that suggestion; the Mesopotamian MLI score for Yuya is lower than even the world as a whole.
You just don't know when to stop, do you?
How do you explain this MLI map?:
They are showing plots in North America It doesn't seem to correspond to the chart we are familiar with
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I do note their Table 1 indices for Yuya do not list the Americas populations circled on Yuya's regional analysis map Appendix Figure 3. Perhaps it is just a glitch.
posted
What do you mean ''it doesn't seem to correspond with the chart we are familiar with''? The only difference is that the new world matches have been omitted, probably because they're unlikely matches, or some other reason.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Also the hypothesis on These mummies having an important element of Nilotic Ancestry....The theme of most my post in this thread is now supported by the Neolithic DNA from from Nubia being overwhelmingly Haplogroup A. A lineages most found in high frequencies among Nilotic people of the Nile Valley.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^We are discussing genetics not phenotype kid, your claim in that regard has been debunked on here ad nasuem. Please don't resurrect those petty debates. DNA doesn't lie and that's all that matters.
How accurate is it? As accurate as my own results I'd presume, dumb question.
Ulotrichous hair is a very dominant trait. Just look at Obama, he is only half Nilo-Bantu, but has ulotrichous hair.
These mummies can't be over 75% Nilotic for sure since most of them have cymotrichous hair, a recessive trait relative to ulotrichous hair.
My children all have straight hair so I don't understand what you are talking about.
I think people who have parents from east Asia normally have straight hair.
I have quite frizzy hair was my point.
And I wasn't talking about your hair Osirion. You had mentioned your wife was East Asian in ethnicity. Am I right?
Yes, but my children look nothing like me. They are all oriental looking. My genes are very recessive. I think that is true of Horn African people as well, very recessive genes.
So even though I have frizzy hair it is not dominant. My Children don't even have curly hair. They have just wavy hair, not even as wavy as mummies that we see (though mummies usually have frizzy hair when looking at the roots; they mostly look like they have a weave of some sort).
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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Also the hypothesis on These mummies having an important element of Nilotic Ancestry....The theme of most my post in this thread is now supported by the Neolithic DNA from from Nubia being overwhelmingly Haplogroup A. A lineages most found in high frequencies among Nilotic people of the Nile Valley.
What do you think of this:
Apparently there is an especially close link between the sampled Bantu speakers and Nilotic peoples, in some of their ancestries. If you look closely, the relationships between the Nilotes, Bantu speakers and West Africans kind of resemble the relationships seen in the MLI scores. The picture above shows a link between Nilotes and Bantu's which is then more distantly joined by West Africans. The MLI scores indicate the Pharaonic profiles are closest to peoples of the Great lakes and Southern Africa, and then West Africans.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: What do you mean ''it doesn't seem to correspond with the chart we are familiar with''? The only difference is that the new world matches have been omitted, probably because they're unlikely matches, or some other reason.
Why bother? You know the lyinass is just desperate to grasp in the dark for anything to rebut these findings. Do you think if ancient Greek remains show STR affinities with say Swedes, she would make a fuss? Do you think there would be any controversy at all with such findings? I seriously doubt it! Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Indeed, they were autosomal. Additionally, Omran et al 2008 were perfectly able to cluster modern Egyptians with Middle Easterners, and away from Africans, using the same set of STR markers, and 7 additional ones (15 in total).
If the Pharaonic alleles were the same as that of modern Egyptians, one would expect to see the same picture we get from Omran et al, who, again, used the same markers, among others.
SSA = Africans, UEG = modern Upper Egyptians.
The difference between Omran et al, and DNA tribes' results is obviously due to some of the Pharaonic alleles, which DNA Tribes - along with several ES posters - has confirmed to be African in origin. These alleles are rare among modern Egyptians. This too, has been confirmed.
Therefore, anyone who has issues with DNA Tribes' methods, where this specific digest, and/or amount of the used STRs are concerned, who ignores the alleles themselves, is in denial. The origin of the combined Pharaonic alleles (i.e., the STR profile) need to be shown to be non-African, before supposed flaws are identified elsewhere. Only then will I lend credence to some of the complaints.
posted
So then this should shut your stupid ass up, you have people directly involved with DNA telling you whats up. Yuya Like the rest of Egypt was majority is not completly African.
How does it feel bitch!??!! Does it hurt...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Reply from Lucas Martin, DNATribe to my inquiry, Yuya ancestry
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^ I believe the part where it says, "but does not exclude the possibility of other ancestral components..." is what Lyinass is clinging to as her last hope! LOL
"Further testing (such as SNP microarray based testing) could potentially clarify the ancestral components of these ancient individuals from the Amarna period."
I say bring it on! Hopefully the results will shut her dumb lyinass up once and for all. Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
No Matter, even is Yuya turns out to have some non-African Admixture this is def. a fatal wound to the beast. Euroclowns have proclaimed from time memorial that Yuya and Tuya were "Hurrian/Asiatic/Hebrews" etc. simply based on eyeball anthropology with very little push back because lets be honest even most Afrocentrics did'nt think the Yuya mummy looked "Black", All this proves is the long haired Mummies with crooked noses etc prove nothing, something we have advocated all along.
Also don't forget the Euroclowns at one time claimed Yuya/Tuya were ravashing blonds, so no matter the end result the fact remains that Yuya is related to Africans further South and not Northern Europeans.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
In a way kind feel bad for the Lyin-ass sac of turd, all this time almost 100,000 posts trying to deny the blackness of Egypt to no avail..LMAO
quote:Originally posted by the lyin-ass dummy before:
looks kind of like an old white guys doesn't it? Look at that huge nose probably just a coincidence, relax
quote:Originally posted by the Lyin-ass dummy after:
Reply from Lucas Martin, DNATribe to my inquiry, Yuya ancestry
How much beating can one dummy take??
quote:After this (his majesty) proceeded to Retenu, to vent his wrath throughout the lands. When his majesty reached Nahrin, his majesty found that foe marshalling troops. Then his majesty made a great slaughter of them. Countless were the living captives which his majesty brought back from his victories.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
The idea is to keep on generating huge numbers of multiple new threads so that the legit data on ES can be buried. That's the game. Unfortunately for them, they have already failed.
As regards the the Ethiopians, the clustering with the San means that they cluster much more with another ancient African population than Europeans or Middle Easterners.
And even though recent Arab/Middle Eastern mixtures have affected the pot, (which no one denies), the fundamental Africanity of the native peoples remains, a dagger in the side of Eurocentrism.
y-chromsome dats shows the primary cluster with other Africans
And if we are talking "race mixes" then the hypocrites must face that fact that their beloved European are themselves a hybrid, mixed breed. They only want the "admixture" meme to conveniently apply one way. Sorry, aint gonna happen..
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
AND IF WE ARE GONNA START HOLLERING BOUT "rACE MIXES" then likewise gene flow between Greece and Africa constitutes "Race mixture". THe Greeks are distinctive with their Indo-European migrations and customs but gene flow is a documented fact in some Greek sub-populations. Using the same methods of "biodiversity" proponents, this then makes the Greeks "mixed race." WHat hypocrites?
You say it should not be? WHy? If recent Arab or miscellaneous Middle Eastern mixes make up a minority of Ethiopia, why shouldnt sub-Saharan gene flow into Greece, also constitute a "racial mixing?" WHat ye hypocrites? Heming and hawing? Trotting out your hypocritical double standards? Now why don't you want to apply your same "Race" model methods in reverse to Europe?
RECAP 1--A. HLA gene markers are limited as comprehensive expositors of gene flow, but they do show some gene flow between Africa and Greece and the Northern Mediterranean. They are not needed however, as numerous other lines of evidence show the same.
These include: mtDNA M1a and various L lineages, nrY E-M215 and subclades, AIM full genome autosomes, HLA full haplotype A*30:02 Cw*05:01 B*18:01 DRB1*03:01 DQA1*05:01 DQB1*02:01, chr 7 CFTR 3120+1G->A mutation chr 8p23 YRI haplotypes, Benin Hb S, GM*1,17 23' 5*, cDe allele of the Rh gene, Fy*O allele of the Duffy blood group locus and V (Rh10) and Jsa (K6) antigens. [/i]
1B-- Villena's Greek-Macedonian-African study has nothing to do with the Jew-Palestinian controversy. The study was withdrawn for political reasons, and offended sensibilities of various Jewish and other groups. Assorted "biodiversity" types try to use that to advance a bogus claim that the Greek data was "withdrawn." Total BS. It is alive and well and appears specifically in Vilenna's Greek study: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks Tissue Antigens 2001: 57: 118–127 Jewish - Palestinian controversies have nothing to do with it.
2-- The Palestinian study also notes that Greeks are related to Africans via cystic fibrosis mutations.
3-- It is true that the data being used is highly variable HLA genes. However the presence of Japanese clustering with south Africans is not as far fetched as it seems. HLA genes are useful in analyzing certain arthritis conditions. There is hard medical data in various HLA studies that indeed show Japanese and south African blacks grouping together in relation to arthritis conditions. See the data below.
4-- Anthro/Archaeo data show the presence of African traits (and remember Africans have a wide variety of traits) in the Neolithic data. The full info has already been posted but here is some anthro/archaeo data affirming the presence of "negroid" traits from early times: quote: "The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a number of 'negroid' .. traits in the face." The skull is fairly complete, but not enough so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania... " -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
"Early Neolithic Macedonia centered on a Dinaric-Mediterranean (type F) average but with an extremely broad nose, more prognathism, and a little more mouth tilt than expected (all, perhaps from negroid development of the incisor region.." -- The people of Lerna: analysis of a prehistoric Aegean population. J.L Angel 1971
"The portrayal on the 'minature fresco' from Thera, and on the other, very fragmentary Aegean frescoes, of diverse stylistic elements- flora a nd fauna, 'negroid' human representations, the riverine setting, of the 'minature fresco,' etc- that seem to be north African, 'Libyan' or Egyptian in origin." --The Aegean and the Orient in the second millennium: proceedings of the 50th anniversary symposium, Cincinnati, 18-20 April 1997
"The inhabitants of the Aegean area in the Bronze Age may have been much like many people in the Mediterranean basin today, short and slight of build with dark hair and eyes and sallow complexions. Skeletons show that the population of the Aegean was already mixed by Neolithic times, and various facial types, some with delicate features and pointed noses, others pug-nosed, almost negroid, are depicted in wall paintings from the 16th century BC..." -- The Home of the Heroes: The Aegean Before the Greeks (1967)
------------------ Scholars also link the Negroid elements to sickle-cell anemia------- QUOTE: "The female from Grave 2 is among those with thickened parietals. It should be pointed out that maxillary prognathsm, one of the skeleton's "Negroid" features, is characteristic both of thalassemia and sickle-cell anemia." -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
5-- Other elements like Benin Sickle Cell traits are also found among the Greeks and various Africans and some skeletal/cranial studies find African elements in Greece (Angel 1972 for example) QUOTE:
"A late Pleistocene-early Holocene northward migration (from Africa to the Levant and to Anatolia) of these populations has been hypothesized from skeletal data (Angel 1972, 1973; Brace 2005) and from archaeological data, as indicated by the probable Nile Valley origin of the "Mesolithic" (epi-Paleolithic) Mushabi culture found in the Levant (Bar Yosef 1987). This migration finds some support in the presence in Mediterranean populations (Sicily, Greece, southern Turkey, etc.; Patrinos et al.; Schiliro et al. 1990) of the Benin sickle cell haplotype. This haplotype originated in West Africa and is probably associated with the spread of malaria to southern Europe through an eastern Mediterranean route (Salares et al. 2004) following the expansion of both human and mosquito populations brought about by the advent of the Neolithic transition (Hume et al 2003; Joy et al. 2003; Rich et al 1998). This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al 2005), in concordance with a process of demic diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
-- F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564
6-- Greeks, Africans and African-influenced Arab populations share a unique common cystic fibrosis mutation
"The observed identity of extended CFTR haplotypes for the 312011GrA alleles in the Arab, African, and African American patients strongly suggests that this mutation has a common origin in these groups. This finding is not surprising in the case of Africans and African Americans, since the latter group has originated mostly from the western African coast and came to North America between the 16th and 19th centuries, which is too recent to allow origination of significant CFTR-mutation haplotype changes restricted to African Americans. It is not quite so simple to explain the presence of the 312011GrA mutation in African and Saudi Arab patients.
However, a continuous gene flow between Arab and African populations probably has persisted for many centuries, in association with trading and with the spread of the Islamic religion. Thus far, the Greeks are the only Caucasian population in which the 312011GrA mutation has been identified. A recurrent mutational event seems to be unlikely, because the Greek haplotype differs from the others in only two minor respects..
Greek and Arab/African haplotypes of the 312011GrA mutation thus may have diverged from a common ancestor and then evolved separately in the respective populations. In summary, our present analysis provides the first evidence for a common origin of CF among African, Arab, Greek, and African American populations. The shared extra- and intragenic 312011GrA–associated haplotype is most easily explained by the assumption of a single origin for this mutation. 312011GrA appears to be an ancient mutation that may be more common than previously thought, in populations of the tropical and subtropical belt, where CF probably is an underdiagnosed disorder." --Dörk, et al. (August 1998). "Evidence for a common ethnic origin of cystic fibrosis mutation
7-- Other cultural/archaeo data testify to the African presence, africans again having a wde range of features
QUOTES "THE FORERUNNERS During the Early Minoan period the population of southern Crete may have included a Negroid element. The presence of such an element from Libya in the Cretan population has been argued on the basis of an inlay of shell now in the Ashmolean Museum. This inlay may have come from an early circular tomb at Ayios Onouphrios. It depects a bearded face, with thick lips and snub nose. Other objects might lead to the same observaton for later periods. Among the faiences showing house fronts (Middle Minoan II)15 there is one in which are seen the prow of a ship and swarthy, prognathous, clearly Negroid people, some steatopygic... It is uncertain, however, what role to assign to the non-Minoan figures in this scene, which it has been suggested, may represent the represent the siege of a seacoast town. Scholars are in greater agreement with respect to their interpretations of the coal black spearmen who appear in a fragment of a fresco, which Evans called The Captain of the Blacks, belonging to Late Minoan 145 II.18 The fresco depicts a Minoan captain, wearing a yellow kilt and a horned cap of skin, who leads, at the double, a file of black men similarly dressed." -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
"The Theran is a young man whose black wavy hairm rather thick lips, and nose with reduced platyrrniny are clearly shown. Although he acknowledges that these traits suggest a NEgrito or Nubian, Marinatos avoids precise anthropological definition and concludes that the characteristics seem to indicate an "African".
"An intrepretation of NEgroes in Crete and Pylos as soldiers would have some support in the example of Egypt, with its long tradition of Nubian mercenaries. A striking example, belonging somewhat earlier period that that of the Minoan Captain of the Blacks fresco, is provided by the wooden models of forthy black archers in Cairo, found in a tomb of a prince of Assiut." pg 138
L. Bertholon and E. Chantre have analyzed results of black-white crossings in their detailed anthropoligical study of ancient and modern Tripolitiana, Tunisia, and Algeria. They call attention to the degrees of Negro admixture as evidenced by the extent to which Negroid features appear in mixed North African peoples. R. Bartoccini in his study of the somatic characteristics of anciet Libyans, illustrates his observations on racial crossings between Libyans and Negroes from the interior by pointing to the Negroid nose (broad) and hair (curly or wooly) .."
"Some of the physical features of this type are: dark or black color expressed in a variety of ways, tightly curled platyrrhine nose, and thick, often everted lips. '
"In a scene on a red-figured calyx-krater of the peropd from Canicattoni, now in Syracuse, a female dancer, fully draped, stands on tiptoe. The treatment of the nose, the lips and the tightly curled hair indicates that Negroid features were intended.. the realism and anthropological fidelity of those cited above leave no doubt as to the artists' intent.." pg 171 -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
-------------------------------
ADDITIONAL DATA: AFRICAN HAPLOGROUP E FOUND IN GREEKS
QUOTE: "Underhill et al. (2001) showed that the frequency of the YAP+ Y haplogroup commonly referred to as haplogroup E or (III) is relatively high (about 25%) in the Middle East and Mediterranean. This haplogroup E is the major haplogroup found in sub-Saharan Africa (over 75% of all Y chromosomes). SPecifically, Europeans contain the E3b subhaplogroup, which was derived from haplogroup E in sub-Saharan Africa and currently is distributed along the North and East of Africa.. It appears that the 171 AIM test subject of this chapter may recognize the haplogroup E character as West African."
--T. Frudakis. 2008. Molecular photofitting: predicting ancestry and phenotype using DNA
Summary: Again note, contrary to the bogus claims of some, few credible observers are saying that the Greeks are not European. That is not at issue. What is at issue is clear, documented African gene flow into Greece from ancient times. This proven gene flow is demonstrated in multiple lines of evidence- from DNA to anthro, to archaeo scholarship. It does not rely on just one line of evidence, or one scholar. The removal of HLA gene studies for example does little to shake the other substantial lines of evidence. The multiple lines confirm and cross-check one another. For example, scholars studying skeletal data link them with populations where sickle-cell anemia is present
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Indeed, they were autosomal. Additionally, Omran et al 2008 were perfectly able to cluster modern Egyptians with Middle Easterners, and away from Africans, using the same set of STR markers, and 7 additional ones (15 in total).
If the Pharaonic alleles were the same as that of modern Egyptians, one would expect to see the same picture we get from Omran et al, who, again, used the same markers, among others.
SSA = Africans, UEG = modern Upper Egyptians.
The difference between Omran et al, and DNA tribes' results is obviously due to some of the Pharaonic alleles, which DNA Tribes - along with several ES posters - has confirmed to be African in origin. These alleles are rare among modern Egyptians. This too, has been confirmed.
Therefore, anyone who has issues with DNA Tribes' methods, where this specific digest, and/or amount of the used STRs are concerned, who ignores the alleles themselves, is in denial. The origin of the combined Pharaonic alleles (i.e., the STR profile) need to be shown to be non-African, before supposed flaws are identified elsewhere. Only then will I lend credence to some of the complaints.
I've been reading up on STRs too and it seems they are considered by dnatribes to be far more accurate than looking at haplotypes. I don't know or remember all the reasons behind this but they did mention it somewhere. Can you elaborate on the difference between autosomal sampling of STRs and the haplotype analyses, Swenet.
From what I understand, haplotypes are combinations of alleles, while STR loci are regions on our chromosomes. The following STR loci have been standardized for research, probably because they yield the best results, or some other benefit:
Alleles are the amount of repeated pieces of DNA, and so, alleles are expressed in the following manner:
-D21S11=34
meaning, at D21S11 (see the chart above), there are 34 repeats of a piece of DNA. This amount is a single allele, that is either inherited from someones mother or father. So, aside from D21S11=34, that person will also have another value at D21S11, which is inherited from the other parent.
So, when 8 STRs are examined, and alleles are shown of both parents, we get the following picture:
Would 8 out of 15 autosomal STR be good enough though? Is there a study that uses just 8? Also couldn't we find out levels of admixture based on how many repeats in certain areas were made? I'd expect if they were heavily admixed we'd see hotspots outside of Africa and repeats on loci or whatever in areas that would resemble Euros or Middle Easterners.
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