posted
Actually my take is that this is spill over from Libya exacerbated by drought. This is something that has been brewing since the French who controlled most of North West Africa, and fought the Tuareg, divided up the map to create the countries that they did. Actually what is now called Mali was formerly called French Sudan.
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Africans are fukked. They are the remnants of the Africans left behind, and completely clueless about their soon to be displaced futures.
I saw the thread (TYR+) but as you should realize, it's merely yet another example of whites telling half truths, and misinformation.
Mike, Albinism adversely affects brain chemistry as well as Melanin production. The inability to metabolize Tyrosine not only inhibits melanin production, but Dopamine as well. This is why whites/Jews NEED to consume Anti-depressants by the boatload to suppress (Lower) Serotonin to maintain balance between the two (Dopamine/Serotonin). Even still, like any electrical system dependent on a specific difference of potential within tight tolerances, once brought into balance, the dialectic levels of both are far below "Normal" parameters necessary to operate within acceptable specifications. the result: Insanity.
This is what Africans and the rest of the world are attempting to emulate. Abnormal thought behavior exhibited by defective MUTANOIDS.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
The Kels already have their own nation. Their confederacy has lasted for centuries. The problem is no one acknowleges the Kel Confederacy and its seven sultanates whose land spans territory in the Euro colonialist carved nations of Mali, Algeria, Libya, and Niger.
All the aforenamed countries have a "Tuareg" problem. The Kels never accepted colonial rule and for them the Euro carved nations are bogus.
Mali for one will never give up the north and its strategic mineral resources and its non- Kel people look back to Songhai to legitimize their rights to the land even though Euros defined the boundaries of modern day Mali.
One solution could be for all the nations with a Kel emirate to accord official, if limited, recognition to the Kel Confederacy as a start toward negotiation. However, Kel cultural values may see verbal negotiation as inimical. They have for centuries relied on armed violence to settle land control disputes, both internally and externally.
Today's conflict is the latest in a continuing bid for dominance between Kels vs Mande & other non-Afrisan speakers documented over the last 1100 years.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
A wave of Tuareg military victories is the direct result of instability following a March 21 coup, led by junior officers in the Malian Army. It’s an ironic fact, given that the junior officers who launched the coup did so because they felt the government of President Amadou Toumani Toure was not providing them with the funding, arms, or supplies to defend the country against a resurgent Tuareg rebellion in the north. Now, within the past few days, Tuareg rebels have taken the major garrison towns of Kidal, Gao, and now Timbuktu, raising concerns for Mali’s West African neighbors about the Army’s capacity to retain control of the country.
BAMAKO (Reuters) - Mali's junta leader appealed for outside help to secure the West African country on Friday as separatist Tuareg rebels took the strategic northern town of Kidal and advanced towards new targets further south.
Arms spilling out of Libya from last year's conflict have bolstered a northern rebellion in Mali. President Amadou Toumani Toure was facing rising unpopularity over his failure to halt the rebellion before he was toppled in last week's coup.
But the coup, if anything, has emboldened the rebels, while the coup leaders have been internationally condemned - including by neighbours which on Thursday gave them 72 hours to surrender power or see Mali's borders and bank funding shut off.
"Our army needs the help of Mali's friends to save the civilian population and Mali's territorial integrity," coup leader Captain Amadou Sanogo told reporters at the barracks outside the capital Bamako serving as the president's office.
The rebels, who began fighting for an independent north in January, have seized on the confusion to prepare offensives on the three regional centres in Mali's north. Among their number are Ansar Edine, an Islamist group with loose personal ties to local al Qaeda militants and which promotes sharia law.
The body representing nations in West Africa announced Monday that starting immediately they are closing the land borders with Mali. The landlocked nation of over 15 million imports nearly all its petroleum products from neighboring Ivory Coast, and economists say gas stations could run dry within weeks. The country's account at the regional central bank has also been frozen, meaning that the junta will struggle to pay the salaries of government employees, including the very soldiers whose loyalty they need to retain power.
The United States called on coup leaders in Mali on Friday to step down and allow for elections to take place.
U.S. State Department spokesman Mark Toner spoke one day after the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) gave the military junta that ousted Malian President Amadou Toumani Toure three days to hand back power to civilians or face "diplomatic and financial embargo."
Seems that no one actually cares if Mali is partitioned by foreign financed invasion. So long as it's a democratic nation when it's done to them.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
As Fela wrote: Head side down, nyash side up.
posted
The Taureg in Mali are comprised of a number of different ancestral backgrounds:
Tens of thousands of Tuaregs from Mali have been forced to flee into Mauritania due to fighting between rebel Tuareg groups and governmental forces. UNHCR is distributing food and relief items to the refugees, while water is being trucked in by the authorities. UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.unrefugees.org/atf/cf/%257BD2F991C5-A4FB-4767-9 Malian Tuareg rebels seize key northern town of Timbuktu
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posted
I was in Timbuktu back in November and the guy showing me around was a tuareg, actually a black guy.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: I was in Timbuktu back in November and the guy showing me around was a tuareg, actually a black guy.
I don't doubt that, and I wasn't suggesting that all Tuareg are now Turk mulattoes. But when you see Turk mulattoes in important or leadership positions, it does not bode well for Blacks.
In my own musings as to why (as a whole) Africans are so backward, I see their condition in Newton's first law "A body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest".
At the dawn of man, Africans were very creative and innovative in taming their environment and providing for a comfortable existence for themselves. As time went on, nothing changed in nature or their environment, so there was never a need for them to change.
Societaly, in the larger kingdoms there was a ruling class and their relations, that we call nobles, and their part-time soldiers. After that everyone had their own plot of land (whither communally or privately and the ability to provide for themselves.
Enter the modern era and the imposition (by Europeans) of the segmented worker (slave?) society. Now people are grouped into political and social-economic segments, where each is no longer able to provide for themselves independently, but rather must depend upon trade amongst themselves (whither that trade be their labor or commodity) in order to provide for themselves. After many years of struggle, Africans are beginning to adjust to this new (for them) world order. And I abuse them to keep them moving.
However one thing that Africans (and apparently all original people) lack is the ability to understand the concept of "Race based allegiance". Certainly Africans understand "Prejudice". Not that long ago, a Somali demanded that I remove a person of Bantu heritage from a group of Somali.
But the best example of original people's innocence to "Racial" thinking is found in American history, and the journals of the explorers "Lewis and Clark".
They tell of an incident where they saw members of the tribe that they were visiting, running like hell toward them. They soon saw why, a rival tribe was attacking. How surprised and relieved they were, when the attackers ordered them to step aside, so that they could kill those dogs of the other tribe. The fact that they were strangers, and White, held no interest to the natives. Of course that "innocence" to "Racial" thinking, led to their ultimate extermination.
Another example of original people's innocence to "Racial" thinking is found with the Arabs; (you all know that I consider them the dumbest Niggers EVER! but for the sake of the narrative). After taking the middle east, they found that they lacked sufficient numbers to hold it, much less expand their conquered territories.
Their solution: Bring in White "Slave Soldiers - Mamluks" by the thousands, and then hundreds of thousands! He,he,he: Damn, how could niggers be THAT stupid? Anyway, as might be expected by "INTELLIGENT" people; The Whites (Mostly Turks), killed their dumb asses, and took over. A scenario that would repeat itself many times.
Out of that brew of divergent interest and race, arose the Turk mulatto. Not forgetting his Central Asian Albino roots, his first order of business was to marginalize and impoverish Blacks. And as we now see, North African Blacks STILL DON'T GET IT! Which leads be to believe that modern North African Blacks must really be Arabs - how else to explain the stupidity of letting Turks into your midst - LEADERS EVEN????
So now, just as southern Africans are beginning to join the modern era, here come the Turks to drive them back into antiquity and poverty.
Which brings up another curiosity: Is there some disease that strikes Africans just as they take-up leadership positions, which causes severe Brain malfunction??
How strange it is that this 64 year old "Jigga-Boo" saw nothing alarming about rebels with Turk leaders, over-running most of his country.
. While younger people like Captain Amadou Haye Sanogo were "Freaking-Out" and willing to do anything to stop them.
.
Stranger still, apparently the president of Niger, understands just how dire a threat it is to have Turk mulattoes in their midst; BUT HE DOES NOTHING!
President of Niger, Mahamadou Issoufou.
. The "Brain-Malfunction" disease has struck the rest of Mali's neighbors, and perhaps all of Africa's Black leaders. So who will save Mali?
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posted
This unfortunate episode reveals an issue common to nearly all Africa which IMO is at the heart of many of our problems-military weakness. Nigeria,the regional and continental giant for example has an airforce whose offensive sharp end consists of one flight of new f-7s,a fifty year old Chinese design.
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: I was in Timbuktu back in November and the guy showing me around was a tuareg, actually a black guy.
Toureg are mixed group. Some are the original Touregs i.e. the black ones and then the others are the sons and daughters of slaves and African fathers.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Sad thing is that the Malian military has been penetrated and controlled by the Pentagon. Fact is that coup-maker Sanogo was trained by the U.S.
Point is that the Touareg revolt was aided by arms flowing into the Sahel as a result of NATO's inavasion and destruction of Libya with the aid of heavy-weaponed mercenaries from Benghazi and Qatar. Huge amounts of arms were provided by the West via NATO, Turkey and Qatar to destroy, and some of those arms flowed South.
Note the geography of the situation. Mali does not border Libya as Chad and Niger do.
The real meaning of all of this is that Africa has chosen to ignore what Nkrumah said many years ago. There is need for an African High Command. But the neocolonial fools in charge just don't know or understand the history of pre-colonial and colonial African history.
Sanogo was just not justified in staging a coup. He represents the Malian army. The army should have fought a counter-offensive against the Touaregs by quickly acquiring arms then going on the offensive. Instead he abnegated his duties and staged another one of those nonsense coups in Africa just so he could seize State House and make himself rich through theft. Nothing new there.
The chickens just came home to roost in thus instance. When NATO attacked Libya through its phony UN resolutions the AU instead of mustering up an army to repel the invaders just ran below the bed to hide. Just a pathetic ignorance of geopolitics and African-European colonial history.
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posted
Interesting point is that the Touaregs are nomads--a people hardly in need of a nation. Looks more like they want to corner the gold reserves in Northern Mali. There is good money in mining and selling to the rapacious Lebanese and Jews.
posted
In my own musings as to why (as a whole) Africans are so backward, I see their condition in Newton's first law "A body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest". At the dawn of man, Africans were very creative and innovative in taming their environment and providing for a comfortable existence for themselves. As time went on, nothing changed in nature or their environment, so there was never a need for them to change.
Humans develop their societies as far as the particular ecological basis will allow. Life in Africa has always been tough, since,in ecological terms, Africa was far more difficult to tame than Europe or Asia. There are various reasons as to why, despite man starting out in Africa, it lags developmentally. As I remember from my MA and reading John Reader's Africa:Biography of the Continent, problems included erratic rainfall patterns and drought; largely poor soils due to the stability of the ancient continental landmass/lack of volcanic activity linked to fertile soils; the fact that the continent is - uniquely - bisected by the equator, so proportionately more of the land mass has a tropical climate that allows pests (e.g. mosquitoes, tsetse flies) to breed year round and spread debilitating diseases (e.g. malaria, yellow fever, sleeping sickness - not to forget bilharzia in the rivers and lakes); from memory, comparatively more effort is required to clear African weeds; and marauding African fauna (e.g. elephants stealing crops) all put a brake on Africa's development. Tropical Africa's population growth rate, until the late/post-colonial era was relatively slow- the ecological factors listed above impacted on the ability of women to reproduce. (Reader does a continental/regional population growth comparison in Biography of the Continent, which, if accurate, shows the extent to which Africa's population growth was hampered compared to what was experienced in other parts of the world.) Without the necessary population growth, hands were tied to food production, meaning that there weren't enough individuals who could be freed up to spend time specialising in other areas. Of course, Kemet, Kush, Mali, etc were the exceptions.
@kikuyu
This unfortunate episode reveals an issue common to nearly all Africa which IMO is at the heart of many of our problems-military weakness.
Nigeria,the regional and continental giant for example has an airforce whose offensive sharp end consists of one flight of new f-7s,a fifty year old Chinese design.
Isn't this an issue that could be described as common to most countries in the world? Even European countries militarily punch below their weight - aside from relying on the Americans to take out Libya's air defence sites, they had to get the Americans to re-ssupply them with munitions once the campaign became prolonged.
Given Africa's economic realities, the military weakness of its individual states is not that surprising.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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One must be careful about what Euro authors like John Read write. Most of these authors are throughly racist in their explanations of the technological development of the African continent.
Reader speaks of poor solis in Africa. Essential nonsense. Africa is a huge continent and just a portion of it like the Congo or Angola has enough rich soil to grow anything that would supply the African continent and beyond.
Reader's comment on Africa's rainfall as being erratic is just nonsense. Traditionally there has always the rainy season and the dry season--which allowed the "growing season" and the "harvest season"--year in year out. Yams, rice an sorghum have always been produced in Africa. If Africans were not healthy and robust how come the whites eagerly sought them out as unwilling labourers for the Americas. And during colonial times who did all that heavy lifting but Africans themselves.
In terms of population, historian Rodney in "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" made the statistical observation that Africa's population was actually comparable to that of Europe before the full force of the Atlantic trade was unleashed.
Again, be careful of what you read. Caveat lector!
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: In my own musings as to why (as a whole) Africans are so backward, I see their condition in Newton's first law "A body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest". At the dawn of man, Africans were very creative and innovative in taming their environment and providing for a comfortable existence for themselves. As time went on, nothing changed in nature or their environment, so there was never a need for them to change.
Humans develop their societies as far as the particular ecological basis will allow. Life in Africa has always been tough, since,in ecological terms, Africa was far more difficult to tame than Europe or Asia. There are various reasons as to why, despite man starting out in Africa, it lags developmentally. As I remember from my MA and reading John Reader's Africa:Biography of the Continent, problems included erratic rainfall patterns and drought; largely poor soils due to the stability of the ancient continental landmass/lack of volcanic activity linked to fertile soils; the fact that the continent is - uniquely - bisected by the equator, so proportionately more of the land mass has a tropical climate that allows pests (e.g. mosquitoes, tsetse flies) to breed year round and spread debilitating diseases (e.g. malaria, yellow fever, sleeping sickness - not to forget bilharzia in the rivers and lakes); from memory, comparatively more effort is required to clear African weeds; and marauding African fauna (e.g. elephants stealing crops) all put a brake on Africa's development. Tropical Africa's population growth rate, until the late/post-colonial era was relatively slow- the ecological factors listed above impacted on the ability of women to reproduce. (Reader does a continental/regional population growth comparison in Biography of the Continent, which, if accurate, shows the extent to which Africa's population growth was hampered compared to what was experienced in other parts of the world.) Without the necessary population growth, hands were tied to food production, meaning that there weren't enough individuals who could be freed up to spend time specialising in other areas. Of course, Kemet, Kush, Mali, etc were the exceptions.
@kikuyu
This unfortunate episode reveals an issue common to nearly all Africa which IMO is at the heart of many of our problems-military weakness.
Nigeria,the regional and continental giant for example has an airforce whose offensive sharp end consists of one flight of new f-7s,a fifty year old Chinese design.
Isn't this an issue that could be described as common to most countries in the world? Even European countries militarily punch below their weight - aside from relying on the Americans to take out Libya's air defence sites, they had to get the Americans to re-ssupply them with munitions once the campaign became prolonged.
Given Africa's economic realities, the military weakness of its individual states is not that surprising.
posted
Africa as a continent has always been underpopulated relative to other continents. Europe is 1/8th the size of Africa and has almost the same size of population. America is 1/5th the size of Africa and has almost half the population.
That is part of it. The other part is the intentional underdevelopment by which European companies take out all the resources like food, water, electricity, tin, copper, aluminum and so forth to build up their own societies but turn right around and make up all sorts of gimmicks like the swing water pump as substitutes for actual infrastructure in Africa using the same resources. Or the current agricultural scams where most of the best land is used for crop export with all the modern technology and infrastructure to support it, while the worst land with no technology or infrastructure is used to feed Africans, almost guaranteeing continued hunger in various places every year. And the NGOs come in and offer token programs that do nothing but make them rich and leave Africans worse off, like tiny little hand pumps that break 2 months after the NGOs leave or little water spigots driven by solar power that you actually have to pay for in rural areas. What happened to water being free? What happened to the old fricking fashioned hand pump? Or the electricity NGO that is going around putting 2 light bulbs and a cell phone charger in huts or houses that uses a car battery that gets recharged as opposed to wiring up African towns to the electrical grid.... But at the same time all those foreign mining companies and plantations have plenty of electricity flowing from power plants that are purposely not tied to the national grid....
Energy "grid" based on rechargeable batteries: http://egg-energy.com/ (dont even think of refrigerators or any appliances here)
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posted
They are already spreading disinformation as another way to play up the need for Africom. The Tuareg are not "Gadaffis Mercenaries" There are millions of Tuareg spread all across Niger, Mali, Algeria, Libya, Mauretania and Morocco and most of them probably never had anything to do with Qadaffi. But to hear the Western media tell it, they are all Gadafi mercenaries.....
quote: When Libya's dictator for more than four decades fell victim to the Arab Spring, Col. Moammar Gadhafi's influence didn't end. It is now contributing to increased attacks by rebel groups, the arming of terrorists and a hunger crisis in other parts of Africa.
"This is a setback for the international community which has invested so much money in the past decade in democracy, peace, and security in Africa," said Dr. Mehari Taddele Maru at the Institute for Security Studies based in Pretoria, South Africa.
After Gadhafi's fall, thousands of his soldiers left the country with stockpiles of weapons, including machine guns, ammunition, and shoulder-fired missiles. Maru says at least 2,000 of them were mercenaries who returned to their native countries in sub-Saharan Africa, including Mali, Niger, Mauritania, and Nigeria. . Many have already returned to fighting.
In the West African country of Mali, when ethnic Taureg fighters returned from Libya well armed, it encouraged Taureg separatists to launch a new rebellion against the government in January. While Gadhafi's weapons were no match for the NATO forces that came to the rescue of Libyan revolutionaries, they were far superior to the weapons of the impoverished Malian army. A mutiny by Mali's out-gunned and frustrated soldiers turned into a coup d'etat when they stormed the Presidential Palace in March, erasing more than two decades of democratic rule.
In the chaos that has ensued after the coup, Taureg separatists in Mali have had more success than ever before. On Sunday they seized the last government holdout in the north, the legendary town of Timbuktu. There is now concern a Taureg victory in Mali could inspire another rebellion in neighboring Niger.
"The Tauregs in Niger got funding from Gadhafi. The government of Niger has been able to negotiate with them for peace, but for how long? That is questionable," said Maru.
Gadhafi's fighters and weapons also streamed into other nearby countries in the Sahel region bordering the Sahara desert. It is an area where a major Al-Qaeda affiliate has announced it acquired thousands of Gadhafi's weapons.
"We have been one of the main beneficiaries of the revolutions in the Arab world," Mokhtar Belmokhar, a leader of Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) told Mauritanian news agency ANI last November.
The proliferation of weapons in the Sahel comes at an especially bad time. After another year of drought in parts of Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Chad, and Burkina Faso, aid agencies say millions of people need urgent food assistance, but violence in the region makes it hard- in some places impossible- to help.
"Under these security conditions, we are not able to access the displaced who are living in extremely difficult conditions," said UNHCR spokeswoman Fatouma Lejeune-Kabu about trying to help those forced to flee their homes in northern Mali.
The U.N. estimates about 130,000 people in Mali have been displaced by the fighting between Taureg rebels and the government army.
Maru believes Gadhafi's weapons will spread farther in Africa. Gadhafi supported insurgencies in several African countries including Chad and Sudan. He also voiced support for Islamic separatists in northern Nigeria, and some analysts suspect he had been supporting Boko Haram Islamic militants.
"Those arms can circulate and come into the hands of anyone who can pay for them," Maru said.
The impact of Gadhafi's trained mercenaries and arsenal of weapons will likely be felt on the continent for years.
"Until such time as the root causes of rebel uprisings are addressed, such as marginalization by governments and socio-economic struggle, the demand for arms and rebel movements will continue," said Maru.
The mercenaries are the al-Qaeda forces backed by the United States that overthrew Libya and who are operating in parts of the Sahara supposedly. Ironically enough in precisely the same areas that are home to the Tuareg. I smell a new battleground for Al-Qaeda all created by the West and their intervention in Libya, just like the rise of Al-Qaeda in Somalia came after the Western backed invasions by Ethiopia....
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posted
Originally posted by some fool: In my own musings as to why (as a whole) Africans are so backward, I see their condition in Newton's first law "A body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest". At the dawn of man, Africans were very creative and innovative in taming their environment and providing for a comfortable existence for themselves. As time went on, nothing changed in nature or their environment, so there was never a need for them to change.
^^Complete and absolute bullshiit.
Originally posted by claus360 Humans develop their societies as far as the particular ecological basis will allow. Life in Africa has always been tough, since,in ecological terms, Africa was far more difficult to tame than Europe or Asia. There are various reasons as to why, despite man starting out in Africa, it lags developmentally. As I remember from my MA and reading John Reader's Africa:Biography of the Continent, problems included erratic rainfall patterns and drought; largely poor soils due to the stability of the ancient continental landmass/lack of volcanic activity linked to fertile soils; the fact that the continent is - uniquely - bisected by the equator, so proportionately more of the land mass has a tropical climate that allows pests (e.g. mosquitoes, tsetse flies) to breed year round and spread debilitating diseases (e.g. malaria, yellow fever, sleeping sickness - not to forget bilharzia in the rivers and lakes); from memory, comparatively more effort is required to clear African weeds; and marauding African fauna (e.g. elephants stealing crops) all put a brake on Africa's development. Tropical Africa's population growth rate, until the late/post-colonial era was relatively slow- the ecological factors listed above impacted on the ability of women to reproduce. (Reader does a continental/regional population growth comparison in Biography of the Continent, which, if accurate, shows the extent to which Africa's population growth was hampered compared to what was experienced in other parts of the world.) Without the necessary population growth, hands were tied to food production, meaning that there weren't enough individuals who could be freed up to spend time specialising in other areas. Of course, Kemet, Kush, Mali, etc were the exceptions.
Fair points, noted by several other credible scholars. It should also be noted that similar conditions above promoting isolation and lowered population and agricultural production are nothing new, and occur in Europe as well in various areas- such as parts of the mountainous Balkans- a region that gave the English language a word for fragmentation and confusion. In northern Europe, Ireland would be another case- remaining relatively backward until recent centuries. Places like Bulgaria or Ireland compare poorly to France in terms of technology, population, innovation over the span of European history. Britain by the way was in the exact same position, RELATIVELY SPEAKING, until conquest by Roman hegemons drew it into a wider orbit. Africa is thus no special case of backwardness.
The facts you post claus contradict bullshiit "biodiversity" claims about "tropical" peoples supposedly "laid back" with "easy" lives and environments. To the contrary, Africans have had to do it the hard way, without the convenient network of navigable rivers, good harbors, good soils, snow-melt facilitating irrigation etc etc. Europe by contrast has had it easy- with key plant and animal domesticates moving in an East-West climatic axis, easing the spread of new technologies, ideas and people. This is why Europeans have been massive borrowers and copiers from other peoples historically- they have always enjoyed a favorable climatic axis and location.
As one recent web analyst notes: (Stratfor) "The first is the North European Plain, an expansive stretch of lowland extending from the Russian steppe in the east to the Pyrenees in the west. This region is blessed with the densest concentration of navigable waterways in the world. The combination of a fertile, easily traversable coastal plain with seven major rivers guarantees both agricultural surpluses and the ability to move them easily and cheaply. The plain is perfect for trade, communication and technology transfer -- and from those activities the accumulation of massive amounts of capital. Consequently, Northern Europe is home to the densest concentration of wealth in the world.
The second feature -- the Mediterranean Sea -- plays a similar role to the continent's south. Maritime transport on the Mediterranean is far simpler than oceanic transport in Northern Europe; the North Sea is one of the world's stormiest bodies of water. But mitigating that advantage is the simple fact that much of the southern side of the continent lacks a robust coastal plain. So while Southern Europe is still rich by global standards, it is a distant second by the high standards of Northern Europe. The two regions have very little to do with each other geographically, and their relative isolation has spawned a raft of differing political, social and economic cultures.
Europe it should be noted had to wait on outside peoples to introduce such revolutionary developments as writing, metallurgy, major plant and animal domesticates etc, etc etc. None of these things came from Europe. Even Europe's main religion is imported from the outside.
Where tropical Africans have been able to get good locations and/or access to trade routes facilitating a heavier interchange of material, goods and ideas, advanced civilizations have developed, just like everywhere else. We know the roll call- the Nile Valley with its famous transportation and agriculture engine, the Sahara with its flows of trade linking forest and savannah- making some West African kingdoms richer than many contemporary European kingdoms in certain eras (Mali for example), the gold mining hegemons of the south as seen in Great Zimbabwe, etc etc.
Note: "interchange" above also refers to important INTERNAL exchanges between African cultures and civilizations not merely external locations. These internal interchanges were hindered by difficult environmental conditions (contrast with the dense river network and good natural harbors of other locations elsewhere making for easy movement of men, material, technology and ideas, but nevertheless they did occur at different levels over time. The famed Benin bronze works for example are the product of centuries of regional fermet and interchange. Likewise the famed iron-works of the Sudanic zone down into East Africa- a product fundamentally of long-standing indigenous development.
Finally "tropical Africa" geographically does include part of southern Egypt, and slices of Libya and Algeria, a point conveniently forgotten by many in the Western academy, as well as bogus "biodiversity" types.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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One must be careful about what Euro authors like John Read write. Most of these authors are throughly racist in their explanations of the technological development of the African continent.
Reader speaks of poor solis in Africa. Essential nonsense. Africa is a huge continent and just a portion of it like the Congo or Angola has enough rich soil to grow anything that would supply the African continent and beyond.
Reader's comment on Africa's rainfall as being erratic is just nonsense. Traditionally there has always the rainy season and the dry season--which allowed the "growing season" and the "harvest season"--year in year out. Yams, rice an sorghum have always been produced in Africa. If Africans were not healthy and robust how come the whites eagerly sought them out as unwilling labourers for the Americas. And during colonial times who did all that heavy lifting but Africans themselves.
In terms of population, historian Rodney in "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" made the statistical observation that Africa's population was actually comparable to that of Europe before the full force of the Atlantic trade was unleashed.
Again, be careful of what you read. Caveat lector!
On soil fertility,Reader is essentially correct. Africa is comparatively infertile compared to Europe. Even the Congo with its incredible green lushness;away from the Eastern regions with its volcanic soils is only a fraction as fertile as Belgium.Looks are deceiving; Most of Africa is similarly plagued with poor laterite soils.
quote:
quote:
Isn't this an issue that could be described as common to most countries in the world? Even European countries militarily punch below their weight - aside from relying on the Americans to take out Libya's air defence sites, they had to get the Americans to re-ssupply them with munitions once the campaign became prolonged.
Given Africa's economic realities, the military weakness of its individual states is not that surprising. Yes,but should a country with billions in oil and a 150 mn people have the airforce of Latvia or Moldova??
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
No, the point is that given the size of Africa there is enough fertile land to grow crops that could be exported to the whole continent.
When you say land is "fertile" the obvious question should be "for what"?
Africa is major producer of cocoa, coffee, tea, palm kernel, rubber tree sap, maize, groundnuts, manioc, sisal, date palms, huge yams, etc. There are areas that just right for rice, fonio, and couscous, etc.
And there are parts of the cooler areas that can grow grapes, apples, and wheat such as South Africa, the Jos Plateau(Nigeria), the Fouta(Guinea), the Ethiopia Highlands, etc.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Africa as a continent has always been underpopulated relative to other continents. Europe is 1/8th the size of Africa and has almost the same size of population. America is 1/5th the size of Africa and has almost half the population.
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The population of Europe grew rapidly just after abolition of serfdom and the start of the industrial age.
Recall that during "the Black Death" Europe lost some 35-40% of its population.
The population of the U.S. is some 300 million people but Africa's population is 1 billion plus.
The population of the U.S. is not approximately, therefore, "almost half [Africa's] population".
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:In the West African country of Mali, when ethnic Taureg fighters returned from Libya well armed, it encouraged Taureg separatists to launch a new rebellion against the government in January. While Gadhafi's weapons were no match for the NATO forces that came to the rescue of Libyan revolutionaries, they were far superior to the weapons of the impoverished Malian army. A mutiny by Mali's out-gunned and frustrated soldiers turned into a coup d'etat when they stormed the Presidential Palace in March, erasing more than two decades of democratic rule.
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Just the usual lying Western propaganda. The liars know fully well that the Libyan Touaregs are still in Libya and are being targeted by NATO's mercenaries and its imposed government, the NTO. The Libyan Touaregs are being cleansed from Sabha and other Fezzan towns of Libya.
The fact is that the arms introduced into Libya by NATO and its Benghazi and Qatar mercenaries is what is now being used by reactionary Al Qaeda mercenaries in the Sahel to sow destruction with the aim of introducing the primitive law system of Sharia.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Africa as a continent has always been underpopulated relative to other continents. Europe is 1/8th the size of Africa and has almost the same size of population. America is 1/5th the size of Africa and has almost half the population.
.
The population of Europe grew rapidly just after abolition of serfdom and the start of the industrial age.
Recall that during "the Black Death" Europe lost some 35-40% of its population.
The population of the U.S. is some 300 million people but Africa's population is 1 billion plus.
The population of the U.S. is not approximately, therefore, "almost half [Africa's] population".
You are right. It isn't half the population. However, America has a higher population density in general than Africa. And so does Europe. And for most of its history Africa has had a very low population density compared to other continents.
However, that is now changing with the population boom that has been taking place in Africa over the last 50 years or so.
quote: Africa's population has rapidly increased over the last 40 years, and consequently, it is relatively young. In some African states, half or more of the population is under 25 years of age. The total number of people in Africa grew from 221 million in 1950 to 1 billion in 2009.
Compare that to the population of the United States which is the 3rd most populated country in the world. In 1950 the population of the United States was 150 million which was almost two thirds the size of Africa in a much smaller space. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_StatesPosts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:In the West African country of Mali, when ethnic Taureg fighters returned from Libya well armed, it encouraged Taureg separatists to launch a new rebellion against the government in January. While Gadhafi's weapons were no match for the NATO forces that came to the rescue of Libyan revolutionaries, they were far superior to the weapons of the impoverished Malian army. A mutiny by Mali's out-gunned and frustrated soldiers turned into a coup d'etat when they stormed the Presidential Palace in March, erasing more than two decades of democratic rule.
.
Just the usual lying Western propaganda. The liars know fully well that the Libyan Touaregs are still in Libya and are being targeted by NATO's mercenaries and its imposed government, the NTO. The Libyan Touaregs are being cleansed from Sabha and other Fezzan towns of Libya.
The fact is that the arms introduced into Libya by NATO and its Benghazi and Qatar mercenaries is what is now being used by reactionary Al Qaeda mercenaries in the Sahel to sow destruction with the aim of introducing the primitive law system of Sharia.
Yes, the overthrow of Libya is simply a prelude of the destabilization of Northern Africa with the long term prospect of European and American intervention and re-colonization, led by France on one hand which is the former colonial power of North West Africa. Sudan and Somalia are already destabilized and it wont take much for it to spread across the Sahara, funded by Americas Wahhabist allies in Saudi Arabia (who no matter how much they support Al-Qaeda have not been targeted by the U.S..... yet). Which makes this whole war on terror simply another farce and pretext for Europeans to keep large areas of the planet destabilized in order to preserve the balance of military, economic and political power in the west. It is like a broke record with the same tune playing over and over again, the tune being going in and attacking the same places and same people again and again and again and again, with new pretexts but the underlying goal is the same.
The only difference in this new phase of the same old game is that the U.S. and Europe have reached their peak economically and are now declining, largely due to the destructive banking systems they helped create in the heydays of colonization and off shoring which has allowed companies to expand and become global and not tied to any one country. That factor is going to make the next 100 years very very dangerous indeed.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Again, be careful of white statistics. There are vested interests involved in undercounting Africa's populations. The population of Africa was NOT 250 million in 1950.
The annual growth rate for Africa--given infant mortality, premature deaths, wars, etc.--since 1950 is approximately 1.5-2.0%. Thus the African population in 1950 would have been approximately 400 million people.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
^Thank you lamin for introducing a little common sense. Allow me to introduce a little more:
HOW COULD ANYONE HAVE AN ACCURATE CENSUS OF AFRICA, WHEN AMERICANS CAN'T EVEN ACCURATELY CENSUS THEIR OWN MAJOR CITIES??????
Damn some of you are truly silly in trying to spread the Albino mans nonsense.
Logically then, we have to assume that since the Albino man gives Africa a one billion population, the actual population must be at least 1.5 billion, which is the figure that I use.
Arable land in the world
As one can see from the map:
African land is severely "UNDERUTILIZED".
One might then ask the question:
So why is the Albino man spreading the lie that Africans CAN'T feed themselves?
Officially launched at the Clinton Global Initiative meetings in 2011, the African Orphan Crops (AOC) consortium is an effort to improve the productivity of some of Africa’s most important food crops, while making them more nutritious and more robust in the face of weather disasters, pests and disease.
Working together, a collection of governmental and non-governmental bodies, scientific institutes and companies aim to improve the incomes of the 600 million Africans involved in farming, by providing them with surpluses to sell on the market.
Who are members of the consortium? The consortium of partners is led by Mars, Incorporated, the New Partnership for Africa’s Development (NEPAD) and World Wildlife Fund. Working partners include:
IBM (which is opening five technology centers in Africa) DuPont/Pioneer Hi-Bred World Agroforestry Centre Bioversity International African Academy of Sciences TransFarm Africa (at the Aspen Institute Plant Breeding Academy at the University of California, Davis (UC Davis)
What are Africa’s most important food crops? The crops in question are grown in all parts of Africa, but are referred to as “orphan crops” because they have largely been ignored by science and big seed companies.
This includes, but is not limited to, crops like:
Cassava Palm oil Peanuts Sorghum Millet Ethiopian mustard Groundnut tree
Virtually every small farmer growing food crops for subsistence in Africa is growing a species that AOC will be striving to improve.
The consortium has already begun to sequence winter-thorn acacia, a tree that can be used for nitrogen fixation, carbon sequestration and erosion control. It has edible seeds, and unlike most trees, sheds its leaves in the rainy season, allowing it to be grown among field crops without shading them.
Why is improving yields of African crops important? Per capita food yields have been declining in Africa for decades. As a result, more than one-third of African children suffer stunting (low height for weight), irreversible after age two, with lifetime debilitating neurological effects.
Underweight children are often prevalent in smallholder farming systems, representing 75% of Africa’s underweight children according to the Millennium Project's Task Force on Hunger.
The IPCC reports that by early as 2020, global warming may reduce rain-fed crop yields in some African countries by as much as 50%.This is a daunting statistic as 96% of African agriculture is rain-fed rather than irrigated.
To tackle these complex and pressing challenges, the best place to start improving productivity and nutrition is with crops Africans already use and know how to grow.
It is also likely that the biggest gains will be made in crops that have received the least attention to date from 21st Century plant breeding technologies.
As population and consumption in Africa increase and 21st century technology allows faster improvements of annual crops, tree crops and perennial crops propagated without seeds, demand for these crops is increasing.
The AOC is working to help Africa meet this demand.
“This work will not only help Africans feed themselves and their nations, it will help produce more food without expanding agriculture and in the process destroying precious natural ecosystems. By 2050, we will need to produce twice as much food as we do today. If we are to have any natural habitat left, we will need to freeze the footprint of agriculture.”
— Jason Clay, senior vice president of market transformation at World Wildlife Fund
posted
^For those who might have missed the point above:
If you want to control a Nation, what is the most effective method, Bombing and Killing them, or threatening them with Starvation?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Thank you lamin for introducing a little common sense. Allow me to introduce a little more:
HOW COULD ANYONE HAVE AN ACCURATE CENSUS OF AFRICA, WHEN AMERICANS CAN'T EVEN ACCURATELY CENSUS THEIR OWN MAJOR CITIES??????
Damn some of you are truly silly in trying to spread the Albino mans nonsense.
Logically then, we have to assume that since the Albino man gives Africa a one billion population, the actual population must be at least 1.5 billion, which is the figure that I use.
Arable land in the world
As one can see from the map:
African land is severely "UNDERUTILIZED".
One might then ask the question:
So why is the Albino man spreading the lie that Africans CAN'T feed themselves?
Not to mention it is the same companies who are responsible for ignoring these "orphaned" crops to begin with as they are part of the same consortium of multinational agrobusinesses that dominate the export trade of African crops like coffee, chocolate, tea, flowers and so on. So who is kidding who? At the end of the day the Africans will simply be sharecroppers and slaves working for white NGOs no different than being slaves and sharecroppers working for white multinationals. Same sh*t different package.
I mean how on earth can Africans be starving overall after over 100 years of working sun up to sun down on huge mega plantations all over Africa? And now all of a sudden they don't know how to plant crops and feed themselves? Somebody deserves to be slapped.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Again, be careful of white statistics. There are vested interests involved in undercounting Africa's populations. The population of Africa was NOT 250 million in 1950.
The annual growth rate for Africa--given infant mortality, premature deaths, wars, etc.--since 1950 is approximately 1.5-2.0%. Thus the African population in 1950 would have been approximately 400 million people.
You are asking people who are accustomed to making decisions based off of instinct as opposed to engaging in abstract thought to grasp what you are saying. That is a tall order in today's world. You research and THINK, they google and apply their findings to their foolish emotions.
With that said, I found an article that is related to how fertile Africa's land is link
People don't seem to get it. Africans are at war. At war with leaders who are bed buddies with our enemy and an enemy who is attempting to rape our homeland once again. Unfortunately, after decades of terrible education and indoctrination, people do not have the wherewithal to understand whats happening
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Extracts from John Reader's 1998 book, ‘Africa: Biography of the Continent’ . The sub-headings are my own -
Comparative population growth ‘It has been estimated that about 1 million people inhabited Africa when the emigrants left the continent 100,000 years ago (see Chapter 10). By AD 200 numbers are said to have risen to 20 million – of whom more than half lived in North Africa and the Nile Valley (and thus would have been part of the Roman Empire population in AD 14), leaving a sub-Saharan population of under 10 million. By AD 1500 the population of the continent is estimated to have been 47 million and in a state of ‘stable biological equilibrium’, with population size fulfilling the potential of the environments that people occupied. Meanwhile, the out-of-Africa population had risen to just over 300 million.
A massive disparity is evident. While the out-of-Africa population grew from just hundreds to 200 million in 100,000 years, and rose to just over 300 million by AD 1500, the African population increased from 1 million to no more than 20 million in 100,000 years, and rose to only 47 million by AD 1500. And yet both groups were descended from the same evolutionary stock. Both groups inherited the talents and physiological attributes that evolution had bestowed during the preceding 4 million years in Africa.
Why did the migrant population grow so much faster? Or, to approach the disparity from another direction, what prevented the African population from achieving similar levels of growth? Since the ancestral stock was identical, the divergent history of the two groups implies that Africa itself was in some way responsible.’ (p3-4)
‘So why did the migrant population grow so much faster? Answer: because they moved out of Africa. By leaving the tropical environments of the cradle-land in which humanity had evolved, the migrants also left behind the many parasites and disease organisms that had evolved in parallel with the human species. Throughout their evolutionary history humans have been opportunists, whose numbers were kept low by environmental factors for much of the time, but whose potential for population growth ensured they would multiply rapidly whenever circumstances permitted. In short, humans are adapted to maximize numbers and colonize new territory. Out of Africa, beyond the reach of the insects and organisms, which had infected generation after generation, the multiplication of human numbers quickly assumed a hitherto unprecedented scale.
Of course, the initial absence or near-absence of organisms capable of living on or inside the human body was a passing phase. In time, as is all too evident, biologically and demographically significant diseases developed among the migrant populations too. But by then they had had more than a head start. Meanwhile, contemporary populations in the tropical African cradle-land remained constrained by debility and disease.’ (p234)
Pests and diseases ‘The hominids...kept away from tsetse fly-infested regions and so never acquired immunity. The strategy avoided the risk of trypanosomiasis, but also denied humans access to almost two-thirds of the potentially food-producing regions of sub-Saharan Africa.’ (p236)
‘While the trypanosomes restricted the growth and development of human populations in Africa by limiting the extent of land area available for them to occupy, the primary effect of other parasites has been to debilitate the people themselves, and thus lower their capacity to produce food. It has been claimed, for example, that where bilharzia is endemic the disease can cause an average loss of 40 per cent of an adult’s capacity to work. A study of sugar-cane workers in Tanzania quantifies the point in more direct terms: workers infected with bilharzia earned at least 11 per cent less in bonuses than those who were not infected.
Bilharzia, known medically as schistosomiasis, has a long record of association with humans. The parasite probably originated in Africa. Eggs of the schistosome fluke were found in the kidneys of two Egyptian mummies from the XXth dynasty (1200BC)...
‘..the power of the pharoahs probably rested on the fact that their subjects spent much of their lives paddling about in bilharzia-infested waters.’(p241)
‘The disease occurs wherever standing water facilitates the propagation of the host snail. It is so commonplace that a brisk haemorrhage from the bladder was regarded as a sign of puberty in boys, analogous to menstruation in girls...’(p237)
‘Hookworms, another parasite that evolved in Africa, are equally capable of debilitating a human population. A Unesco survey revealed an 80 per cent infestation rate among villagers and pygmies in the West African rainforest.’ (p238)
‘Falciparum malaria is the most common form of malaria in the tropics. In endemic zones nearly all children are infected by the time they are two years old.’ (239)
Soils ‘Africa, unlike any other continent, is divided into two almost equal parts by the Equator. Since most of the continent lies within the tropics, it does not experience the wide fluctuations in temperature which typify the climates of Europe and North America. (p98)
‘Relatively high and stable temperatures encourage growth when the soil is fertile and the rainfall is good. But there is a downside: the annual round of warm temperatures, with no seasonal change, means there is no relief from the activities of harmful bacteria or disease-bearing insects such as hard winter frosts bring to temperate climes. Furthermore, the total decomposition of vegetable matter is rapidly accomplished in consistently warm temperatures, leaving no time for the accumulation of humus, with the result that extensive layers of deep fertile topsoil are rare in Africa.
Fertile topsoils represent local concentrations of nutrients, but the overall availability of nutrients (from which that concentration is drawn) is initially determined by the nature of the geological parent material. Ancient granites and cratonic rocks , and the sediments derived from them, are poor in nutrients. Africa is the world’s most ancient and stable land mass...with a greater proportion of exposed granitic shield and cratonic surface than any area of comparable size on Earth. Nutrient-impoverished cratons and granites, basement sediments and sands cover about 90 per cent of African land surface; areas of nutrient-rich volcanic and associated sediments are corresondingly limited, concentrated in particular along the length of the Great Rift Valley in East and Central Africa.’ (p99)
Agriculture, nutrition and reproduction ‘The human population of Africa has never approached the size that the continent seems capable of supporting.
In the view of agronomists at the International Institute of Tropical Agriculture, Africa remains underpopulated even at the end of the second millennium, with a population approaching 900 million. Certainly the food-production potential of the continent has yet to be fully exploited. An FAO survey published in 1991 reported that only 22 per cent of land in Africa suitable for agriculture was actually in production (the comparable figure for south-east Asia is 92 per cent).’ (p243)
‘Three hectares of land (including fallow) is considered enough to feed a family and produce a surplus in any part of Africa where mixed agriculture is a viable, but the amount of labour required to keep that amount of land in protection seriously restrains a family’s ability to satisfy its needs. Pioneers clearing land for cultivation in the East African highlands invested up to 150 man-days of labour in the hectare, according to anecdotal reports. The annual round of planting and tending yam crops at typical locations in south-east Nigeria absorbed an average of 230 person/days per hectare. Weeds are a curse. Cleared ground creates conditions for profuse growth, especially in the humid tropics. In recorded instances, African farmers devote up to 54 per cent of their total labour output to the tiresome business of weeding, a greater proportion than weeds demand of farmers in any other part of the world.’ (p246)
‘A year –long study of energy expenditure among villagers cultivating clearings in the forest flanking the Gambia River in West Africa found that the effort required for some tasks exceeded the workers’ physical capacity by more than 50 per cent. Their body weight rose following the harvest, when food and leisure time were plentiful, but fell steadily when land preparations began again and the workload increased. Food stocks diminished rapidly and were almost exhausted during the period leading up to the harvest, when the workload was most demanding. At any one time in the course of a year the villagers were either enjoying an excess of food or enduring a deficit, hardly ever in balance. (p246)
‘Producing enough food to sustain the existing workforce is the first principle of subsistence agriculture. When production consistently fails to keep a community well-nourished, the seasonal round becomes a vicious circle: weakened by their inability to produce more food, farmers produce less and are trapped in a wearying struggle to prevent the circle becoming a downward spiral.
Nutritional deficiencies are particularly hard on childbearing women, whose pregnancies inevitably span at least one period when food is scarce and their workload high. The interval between births can be up to four years among women living under consistently stressful conditions (see page 118). In terms of a woman’s reproductive effectiveness, extended birth intervals should not simply limit the number of children born, but also ensure as many as possible survive. Even so, evidence from comparable situations in modern times shows that more than 30 per cent of infants probably died before reaching the age of five. The result was that although women married and began bearing children soon after puberty, they raised far fewer to maturity during their reproductive lifespans than was theoretically possible.
Children were precious, and the drive to reproduce became a central feature of African culture and social order.’ (p246)
African fauna: Elephants ‘Farmers...were in direct competition with elephants. Their preferred habitats were the same: medium to high rainfall regimes, soils capable of producing edible vegetation, and access to drinking water. Thus agriculture in Africa advanced at the expense of the elephant’s population size and range. Every hectare cultivated was a hectare lost to elephants. Conversely, since elephants found virtually all human food crops palatable, they inhibited expansion of the farmers’ population size and range.
Early farmers had recourse to spears, arrows, poison, fire, and noise, and they could dig pit-traps, but their capacity to keep a herd of hungry elephants at bay was always compromised by an inadequacy of numbers. In short, elephants compounded the problems of labour shortages and unpredictable environmental circumstances already restraining the development of agriculture in Africa, and from earliest times, were therefore a formidable obstacle to human population growth and expansion on the continent.’ (p255)
‘Lone farmers stood little chance, and if conflict or disease reduced a community’s manpower, elephants rapidly completed its collapse’. (p255)
‘In [colonial] Uganda, firearms and free ammunition were issued to famers, who were encouraged to kill marauding elephants. The policy ran from 1912-1921, when it was deemed to have failed – despite the death of several thousand elephants’. (p255)
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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I'm just asking how someone like this, got to be a Tuareg.
Black world to Niggas in Africa - THAT'S A TURK!
You're one IGNORANT troll. Not every light skinned north african is a turk. The genetic contribution of the turks in North Africa cant be higher than 1 or 2%
This man is a berber
Hmmm, seems I have heard something very similar before.
So then logically, if the Berbers, Egyptians, and Arabs of the Ottoman look EXACTLY like Turks. Then perhaps the OTHER members of the Ottoman Empire might ALSO look like TURKS!
Lets TEST it!
.
Gee KoKaKoLa, THEY ALL LOOK "EXACTLY" THE SAME TO ME!
Ah, what was your point again?Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Neslisah Osmanoglu, an Ottoman princess who married an Egyptian prince and was twice forced into exile when both royal households were abolished, has died. She was 91.
Neslisah Sultan, or Princess Neslisah, died in Istanbul on Monday, according to her nephew, Abdulhamid Kayihan Osmanoglu. He didn't give the cause of death, but new reports said it was a heart attack. A funeral ceremony was being held Tuesday for the princess, who was the oldest member of the Ottoman dynasty.
Neslisah Sultan was born in Istanbul on Feb. 4, 1921, two years before the Turkish Republic replaced the Ottoman Empire, which had ruled Turkey, parts of the Middle East and eastern Europe for 600 years.
Her grandfather, the last Ottoman Sultan Vahdettin, and all other members of the dynasty were sent into exile in 1924, and the princess spent her childhood and adolescence in Nice, France, before moving to Egypt.
"When we were in exile we lived longing for the country," she told historian Murat Bardakci, whose biography of the princess was published last year. "My mother had friends who would go to Istanbul. I would ask them to bring me back a bit of soil from Istanbul, but none did."
Ottoman princesses were traditionally married to members of Muslim royal families, and in 1940, Neslihan Sultan married Egyptian Prince Muhammed Abdel Monem. Prince Monem headed a regency committee that ruled from July 1952 to June 1953, when the new rulers of Egypt turned the country into a republic.
Prince Muhammad Abdel Moneim Beyefendi (February 20, 1899 - December 1/2 1979) was an Egyptian prince and former heir apparent to the throne of Egypt and Sudan from 1899 to 1914. Upon the abdication of King Farouk following the Egyptian Revolution of 1952, he served as Regent for King Fuad II until the declaration of the Republic of Egypt and abolition of the Egyptian and Sudanese monarchy in 1953.
Prince Muhammad Abdul Moneim was born at the Montaza Palace, near Alexandria. His father Abbas II was the reigning Khedive and so Prince Muhammad Abdul Moneim became heir apparent immediately following his birth and was given with title Hereditary Prince. He was educated at Fribourg, Switzerland. Following the Ottoman Empire's entry into World War I, Prince Muhammad Abdul Moneim's father Abbas II was deposed by Britain on December 18, 1914 for supporting the Ottomans in the War. His father was replaced on the throne by his uncle Hussein Kamel thereby bypassing Prince Muhammad Abdul Moneim who was now demoted in the line of succession. He was created His Highness in 1922. Later he would serve as President of the Egyptian Olympic Committee from 1934 until 1938. In 1939 he was appointed President of the Arab delegation to the Palestine Conference in London in 1939.
The royal couple were placed under house arrest, accused of being part of an international plot against the Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser, but acquitted and forced to leave the country.
Exiled for a second time, Neslisah Sultan returned to live in France with her husband.
In 1952, the Turkish government allowed female members of the Ottoman family to return to Turkey, and the prince and princess moved to Istanbul in 1957.
On Tuesday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan praised the late princess.
"She was the poster-child for nobleness who carried the blood of Osman," he said in Parliament, referring to Osman I, the Anatolian ruler who established the Ottoman Empire. "We remember her with high regard and our blessings."
The princess took the surname Osmanoglu, or son of Osman, along with other surviving members of the dynasty.
"When I go out in the streets, I see that all nice things were built by my grandfathers," she told Bardakci. "I therefore cannot help think that they belong to me. I feel like I am a part of this place and that I belong to this land."
Prince Monem, who was born in 1899, died in Istanbul in 1979.
Neslisah Sultan is survived by a son, daughter and a grandson.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Well, its a fact that there were some mixed populations in North Africa before the Turks man. remember moors brought in millions of white slaves into North Africa, which helped to lighten up the area. You also have to remember Greeks, Romans also came in their and there was another Mediterranean group that came in during the time Kemet was an empire. So we can not deny that there has been mixture of various whites in that area. I won't say these whites have ANYTHING to do with Phoenician though, because to my knowledge Phoenicians were described as being black and "Hebrews" are a myth.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: typeZeiss - You are correct, I "over generalized". That was done purposefully, I have found that too much detail confuses.
Hebrews a myth?
How so?
Ah ok,
As for the Hebrews, here is some reading material and a few videos IF you're interested:
From my research I have come to one certainty. David, Solomon, Moses, Amos and Jesus were pharaohs from the 18th Dynasty. The "Hebrews" are actually the Egyptians. There was NEVER a Hebrew or Jewish people as we have come to understand them. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are just dressed down versions of the kemetic religion. I know that might erk a lot of people but that is what my research has led me to. Another good book to read is The Hebrew Pharaohs of Egypt by Ahmed Osman
Eventually I will turn my research to the time of Herod. Someone built that site on the temple mount which I would assume was Herod. However, I leave room for doubt in that regard, because everything else surrounding these people seems to be a lie, so who knows.
Also,
YouTube Israel Finkelstein. He is a famous Jewish archaeologist. See what he says about the history of the Jews. He also address those archaeologist who claim to have found stuff when in reality they are taking liberties with history.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Turks are mearly light skinned blacks, what's the difference?
People such as they, are slightly less than 1/2 Black: thus not quite Mulattoes, more akin to Quadroons. Unfortunately, the cutoff for self identifying as Black is Mulatto.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
typeZeiss, now it is YOU who is "over generalizing".
There is a BIG difference between the BIBLICAL Hebrews, and the Habiru. The Habiru were real people, and are well documented.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Turks are mearly light skinned blacks, what's the difference?
People such as they, are slightly less than 1/2 Black: thus not quite Mulattoes, more akin to Quadroons. Unfortunately, the cutoff for self identifying as Black is Mulatto.
posted
Figure 1.--This Assyrian carving at Lachish shows Jews being led inton exile by Sargon's son Sennacherib after Hezekiah's failed revolot (701 BC). Oxford University Press, 1998
That Syria was once the domain of Cepheus, an Ethiopian king,Tacitus wrote that the Romans beleived that the Jews originated in Ethiopia but fled the persecutions of the King. Strabo,even earlier,stressed that people of Western Judea was Africiod:
But although the inhibatance are mixed up thus,the most accerdited reports in regards to the people of Jerusalem reperesents the ancestors of the present Judeans as they are called Egyptians.
The remains found at Lakish:The excavacation uncovered a mass of human bones,which was estamated to from the remains of fifteen hundred individuals..remains of 695 skulls were brought to London by the British expidition...curiously,the crania indicate a close resemblance to the population of Egypt at this time...the relationships found suggest that the population of the town in 700 B.C was entirely of Egyptian origin..they show further,that the population of lakish was probably derived from upper Egypt.James e Brunson
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Lioness why why why do you do this
do what put up authentic pictures of an Assyrian carving of jews at Lachish and you prefer different pictures you are more comfortable with?
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