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A lot of waffling and posting the same craniometric informations over and over again which doesn't do them (Swenet and dead/anglo-pyramidologist) any good anyway (see Zarahan post above and many other studies). But there's no escape when you take into account ALL lines of evidences discussed many times on this forum.
1) DNA =Ancient Egyptians are black Africans 2) Cultural continuity (anthropology) = black Africans 3) Post-cranial/Limb proportion= black Africans 4) Craniometric = black Africans
Even modern European people present variation (DNA, craniometric, cultural, body proportion) between each others in all those aspects, but it doesn't mean they don't share common ancestors too. They also share similarities. Which is the same thing with Ancient Egyptians which share common ancestors with most other African populations well after the OOA migrations. See Keita mentioning the PN2 bridge. That is all E haplogroup carriers (Bantu, Somali, Karrayyu, Yoruba, Kongo, Ramses III and son, etc), for example, share common ancestors after the OOA migration. Making them closer to each others in every aspect (cultural and anthropological) than with any OOA/Eurasian populations.
quote:Originally posted by Dead: In craniometric studies
Those things have been discussed countless times on this forum. Your argument only works (edit:well not really if you consider Zarahan's post above for example) if you ignore DNA studies and post-cranial analysis. You must take all lines of argumentation into account.
Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample by Trenton Holliday 2013
Ancient Egyptians are their own people different from modern West/East/South Africans. But they are related to Sub-Saharan black Africans (Zulu, Yoruba, Somali, Karrayyu, Wolof, Kongo, etc) much more than they are related to Eurasians or West Asians. This is what DNA, limb proportion/post-cranial analysis and craniometric analysis says. Of the 3, DNA provides the best discriminative power.
This is just to say racist people in the past were wrong when they tried to claim AE was founded by a dynastic race coming from outside the continent to create Ancient Egypt in Africa. AEians were truly indigenous black Africans. Made of people who stayed back in Africa during the OOA migrations. Related and in continuity with the Green Sahara, Nabta Playa, Tasian, Badarian, Naqada culture.
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You don't know what to believe still? Here's the real bottom line (published by a reliable source - The Oxford university press)
"Physical anthropologists are increasingly concluding that racial definitions are the culturally defined product of selective perception and should be replaced in biological terms by the study of populations and clines. Consequently, any characterization of race of the ancient Egyptians depend on modern cultural definitions, not on scientific study. Thus, by modern American standards it is reasonable to characterize the Egyptians as `black' while acknowledging the scientific evidence for the physical diversity of Africans." --Source: The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press. 2001. p. 27-28
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: No, this African Genome Variation Project is very good for recognizing the African ethnic affiliation of Ancient Egyptians since the earliest substantial trace of Eurasian admixtures in this Northeastern part of Africa is said to be 986 BC (see my post above in this thread). Which correspond roughly to Assyrians and other late period foreign conquest of Ancient Egypt (Greeks, Romans, etc).
Of course, only Ancient DNA taken from actual Ancient Egyptian mummies can confirm the thing. But as you know it is the case considering Ramses III is determined to be E1b1a (BMJ study) and the JAMA/BMJ and DNA Tribes analysis of the autosomal DNA of the Ancient Egyptian mummies. AKA they are all Africans related to so-called Sub-Saharan Africans more than any other people.
As you know, I always considered as very probable that they must have been low level of Eurasian admixtures in Ancient Egyptians probably even at its foundation stage. That is even much before the Hyksos/Aamu conquest during the second intermediate period. But the African Genome Variation Project, if we extend the results to the whole Northeastern African region, and the ancient DNA taken from actual AEians mummies all indicate that this admixture would be very minimal. Ancient Egyptians mummies, according to current results, are mostly black Africans (See BMJ, JAMA and DNA Tribes studies).
According to the sources, I've posted there were also other mutations forming Hg's, which are still present till this day in multiple regions within Africa. Especially Northeast Africa. You love to ignore this.
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Same thing with the archaeological/cultural continuity which show them to be indigenous Africans. Even displaying "STRONG SIMILARITIES TO MODERN AFRICAN CULTURES".
"Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns , appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons. [...] Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization" - The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press (2001). p.28
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: No, this African Genome Variation Project is very good for recognizing the African ethnic affiliation of Ancient Egyptians since the earliest substantial trace of Eurasian admixtures in this Northeastern part of Africa is said to be 986 BC (see my post above in this thread). Which correspond roughly to Assyrians and other late period foreign conquest of Ancient Egypt (Greeks, Romans, etc).
Of course, only Ancient DNA taken from actual Ancient Egyptian mummies can confirm the thing. But as you know it is the case considering Ramses III is determined to be E1b1a (BMJ study) and the JAMA/BMJ and DNA Tribes analysis of the autosomal DNA of the Ancient Egyptian mummies. AKA they are all Africans related to so-called Sub-Saharan Africans more than any other people.
As you know, I always considered as very probable that they must have been low level of Eurasian admixtures in Ancient Egyptians probably even at its foundation stage. That is even much before the Hyksos/Aamu conquest during the second intermediate period. But the African Genome Variation Project, if we extend the results to the whole Northeastern African region, and the ancient DNA taken from actual AEians mummies all indicate that this admixture would be very minimal. Ancient Egyptians mummies, according to current results, are mostly black Africans (See BMJ, JAMA and DNA Tribes studies).
In craniometric studies, ancient Egyptians don't cluster/pool or closely match with modern West/Central African (i.e. "Negroid") means, they are fairly close though to Somali or Horn populations (Froment, 1991, 1992, 1994):
Also claiming that "Somalis" are part of "black phenotypic diversity" (as those with the ESR pan-African political agenda claim) is false, since Sub-Saharan Africans/"blacks" do not cluster together. So despite Froment writing: "Horn of Africa (Tigré and Somalia) fit well into Egyptian variations", this does not mean you can extend this to West Africa.
It's a fact that there is diversity within Africa, this goes for popuations above the Sahara, within the Sahara and sub to the Sahara.
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Your post on the recent findings of alleles makes your position problamatic. Thus the question by Lamin was, what is meant by eurasian alleles? This was unfortunately never answered.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Same thing with the archaeological/cultural continuity which show them to be indigenous Africans. Even displaying "STRONG SIMILARITIES TO MODERN AFRICAN CULTURES".
quote:"Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns , appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons. [...] Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization" - The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press (2001). p.28
This is one of the most profound places, as a building block for ancient Egypt.
"Ancient finds in the Western Desert of Egypt at Gebel Ramlah circa 5,000 BC show culture closely linked with indigenous tropical Africans of both the Saharan and sub-Saharan regions, not Europe or the Middle East. Dental studies put the inhabitants of Gebel Ramlah, closest to indigenous tropical African populations.
"During three seasons of research (in 2000, 2001 and 2003) carried out by the Combined Prehistoric Expedition at Gebel Ramlah in the southern part of the Egyptian Western Desert, three separate Final Neolithic cemeteries were discovered and excavated. Skeletal remains of 67 individuals, comprising both primary and secondary interments, were recovered from 32 discrete burial pits. Numerous grave goods were found, including lithics, pottery and ground stone objects, as well as items of personal adornment, pigments, shells and sheets of mica. Imports from distant areas prove far-reaching contacts.
Analysis of the finds sheds important light on the burial rituals and social conditions of the Final Neolithic cattle keepers inhabiting Ramlah Playa. This community, dated to the mid-fifth millennium B.C. (calibrated), was composed of a phenotypically diverse population derived from both North and sub-Saharan Africa. There were no indications of social differentiation. The deteriorating climatic conditions probably forced these people to migrate toward the Nile Valley where they undoubtedly contributed to the birth of ancient Egyptian civilization."
-- Burial practices of the Final Neolithic pastoralists at Gebel Ramlah, Western Desert of Egypt
Michal Kobusiewicz, Jacek Kabacinski, Romuald Schild, Joel D. Irish and Fred Wendorf
British Museum Studies in Ancient Egypt and Sudan 13 (2009): 147–74
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Amun Ra keep in mind that Troll Patrol like xyyman think that no new haplogroups formed after humans left Africa
Ask TP to name a haplogroup that is Eurasian. He will say there are none.
That is the philosophy of xyyman and Troll Patrol so all their argumenataion is built on that premise
Where did I say that, or ever make such statement/ claim?
quote: Although the study's main focus was on Africa, Tishkoff and her colleagues studied DNA markers from around the planet, identifying 14 "ancestral clusters" for all of humanity. Nine of those clusters are in Africa. "You're seeing more diversity in one continent than across the globe," Tishkoff said.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Same thing with the archaeological/cultural continuity which show them to be indigenous Africans. Even displaying "STRONG SIMILARITIES TO MODERN AFRICAN CULTURES".
"Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns , appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons. [...] Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization" - The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press (2001). p.28
None of us is in disagreement with the above.
Rock art from West Bank Aswan and Wadi Abu Subeira
posted
Every time this Amun Ra loony toon spams fig. 5 from Holliday 2013, his interpretation of it is radically different from what fig 5 actually says, and what the text says about it. Fig 5, just like fig 1, 2, 3 and 4 from Holliday 2013, put the recent 'North African' cluster, which includes the Pygmy sample and the historic Egypto- Nubian samples, in an intermediate position, albeit closer to other Africans (but note that the latter aren't necessarily closer to the North African cluster than the Germany sample is; but then again, this European sample looks like an outlier). Yet, this confused fraud cooks up the fantasy that fig 5 presents a picture different from Froment, and that it depicts Eurasia and Africa as two entirely distinct entities.
That's why he deliberately always cites fig. 5, but never fig. 4, like the scheming manipulator that he is:
Doesn't have the faintest clue. SMH. Just takes dendrograms and spins his own fairytale around it, just like he does with Tishkoff's data. But the second you ask this fraud to actually corroborate his interpretation of a dendrogram with a citation from the full text itself, he runs with his tail between his legs, as we've seen him do so many times already.
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Well, nothing you say contradict what I said, you only use strawman and ad hominem, so thanks for your input Sweety.
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Lol "only strawman". This is what you said in relation to Froment's results, amongst other things:
Your argument only works (edit:well not really if you consider Zarahan's post above for example) if you ignore DNA studies and post-cranial analysis. You must take all lines of argumentation into account. --Amun Ra The Incompetent
But, as fig 1, 2, 4 and 5 in Holliday et al 2013 show, there is no inconsistency between the Froment's results and Holliday 2013, a fact you tried to hide by nitpicking fig 5 and spinning it's interpretation to make it seem like it undermines Froment.
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It's a strawman and ad hominem again. I just disagreed with Dead/anglopyramidologist (and your's apparently) interpretation of the Froment results. I disagreed with his interpretation of the froment results not the froment results themselves. LOL
I gave my own interpretation, using all lines of evidence (DNA/genetics, archaeological continuity/cultural, anthropological data, etc), in this post for example:
I also posted many reliable sources and links discussing such issues such as the Oxford Encyclopedia and countless others after that post above. Nothing in my analysis contradict Froment or any genetic/archaeological or anthropological data.
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"[T]he ancient Egyptians were distinct from Melano-Africans and Europeans alike and are situated in an intermediate position [...] We notice that in the centre of the figure are found close to each other the Neolithic Proto-Mediterraneans, the Somali and Galla, the Nubian average and the Indians." (Froment, 1994)
Perhaps you could though say Lower Egyptians, are closer to Mediterraneans and Maghreb, and the Upper Egyptians closer to Somali and Nubians:
"The populations of Lower Egypt are very close to those of the Maghreb, and those of Upper Egypt resemble those of Nubia." (Froment, 1992)
This reminds me of Angel (1972), who saw something similar.
Anyway:
"The diversity of “authentic” Africans is a reality. This diversity prevents bio-geographical/bio-historical Africans from clustering into a single unit, no matter the kind of data." (Keita and Kittles, 1997)
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^This closeness to Neolithic Europeans isn't specific to ancient Egyptians. It pertains to the Somali, Nubians, etc. They are all close to the neolithic Mediterranean populations that entered Europe from the Aegean Sea (see the affinity of the pooled NE African sample in Brace et al 2005). This closeness can be seen in craniometric data, limb data, as well as genetic data. It's a function of Epipalaeolithic Egyptian ancestry:
quote: Humero-clavicular, brachial and crural indices in a large sample (n=75) of Linienbandkeramik (LBK), Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age specimens from the middle Elbe-Saale-Werra valley (MESV) were compared with Eurasian and African terminal Pleistocene, European Mesolithic and geographically disparate recent human specimens. Mesolithic Europeans display considerable variation in humero-clavicular and brachial indices yet none approach the extreme "hyper-polar" morphology of LBK humans from the MESV. In contrast, Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age peoples display elongated brachial and crural indices reminiscent of terminal Pleistocene and "tropically adapted" recent humans.
Note that Galaghner et al understand this limb measurement difference as temporal (early farmers were cold adapted, later farmers were tropically adapted), but this (seemingly temporal) difference is likely the result of differential local assimilation of native European hunter gatherers. As Brace 2005's data showed, some neolithic Germans resemble living Europeans more and others resemble the earliest colonists more.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: just disagreed with Dead/anglopyramidologist (and your's apparently) interpretation of the Froment results.
What is this "interpretation of Froment" that you disagreed with and how is this "interpretation" incompatible with the Holliday 2013 paper you cited in contradiction of me?
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Mesolithic Europeans don't show much of a change in crural/brachial index since the Upper Palaeolithic [although I've seen a recent study that disputes this]. This is why Frayer et al. (1993) cited this as an evidence against RAO for Europeans:
"Equally important is the fact that limb-segment indices show no trend over time in Europe, but remain high throughout the Upper Paleolithic and into the Mesolithic. This is not what one would expect if the Upper Paleolithic Europeans were heat adapted (African) populations, adjusting biologically to the cold of the most extreme Wurm maxima."
Holliday (1999) also came up with some weird explanation.
But I found this recent study which touches upon the limb data in Neolithics:
quote: "The diversity of “authentic” Africans is a reality. This diversity prevents bio-geographical/bio-historical Africans from clustering into a single unit, no matter the kind of data." (Keita and Kittles, 1997)
The same can be said about Europe. Even Modern European populations have a wide diversity of DNA, craniofacial measurements, post-cranial/limb proportion measurements and even cultural diversity.
This also apply for Africa. The wide diversity of phenotypes and cultures doesn't exclude common origin. People in Africa would have acquired their distinctive phenotypic traits after their common origin and migrations to their current geographic locations within Africa. Here's a quote from the same Keita about it:
quote:The PN2 transition[edit:also called P2], a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E or III) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004). This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant African populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions.."
- From (S.O.Y Keita. Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 16:679–689, 2004.)
To put this into perspective, I calculated the proportion of Y-DNA and MtDNA shared between Yoruba and Somali (in my thread linked above):
For Y-DNA: Yoruba P2(PN2)/e1b1a 93.1% Somali P2(PN2)/e1b1b 81.1% (using numbers from here)
For MtDNA (L2a, L3bf, L3cd, L3eikx, L0a1): Yoruba 75.75% Somali 66.93% (using the numbers from Here)
So even populations within Africa (same as within Europe) who share phenotypic differences (and similarities), can also share a common origin for a large part of their genome. The differences having been created (or having drifted in term of proportions in the population) after their common origin and thus after their migrations to their current locations in Africa. While the similarities would be related to this common origin. Keita talks of PN2/P2 as a common lineage which appeared in Africa after the migration of modern humans from Africa. Thus after the OOA migrations.
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quote: Although two mtDNA lineages with an African origin (haplogroups M and N) were the progenitors of all non-African haplogroups, macrohaplogroup L (including haplogroups L0-L6) is limited to sub-Saharan Africa.
Evolutionary history of mtDNA haplogroup structure in African populations inferred from mtDNA d-loop and RFLP analysis.
--Sarah Thiskoff, Gonder et al.
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Late Neolithic megalithic structures at Nabta Playa (Sahara), southwestern Egypt.
By Fred Wendorf
Anthropology Department Southern Methodist University 3225 Daniel Avenue Dallas, Texas 75275-0274 USA
Introduction
1 Located 100 km west of Abu Simbel, in southernmost Egypt, Nabta Playa is a large, internally drained basin, which during the early Holocene ( ca. 11,000 - 5500 calibrated radiocarbon years ago) was a large and important ceremonial center for prehistoric people. It was intermittently and seasonally filled with water, which encouraged people to come there, and today it contains dozens, and perhaps hundreds, of archaeological sites. People came from many regions to Nabta Playa to record astronomical events, erect alignments of megaliths, and build impressive stone structures.
2 From around 65,000 years ago until about 12,000 years ago the Western Desert was hyper-arid, at least as dry as today and perhaps drier. This began to change after 12,000 years ago when the summer rains of tropical Africa began to move northward, bringing sufficient moisture for a wide variety of sahelian grasses, trees and bushes to grow, and for a few small animals to exist, mostly hares and small gazelle, but also including a few small carnivores. Even with the rains it was still very dry; the annual rainfall was no more than 100 - 150 mm per year, and it was unpredictable and punctuated with numerous droughts, some of which caused the desert to be abandoned for lengthy periods. The earliest (11,000 - 9300 years ago, calibrated) settlements at Nabta were composed of small seasonal camps of cattle-herding and ceramic-using people. These early cattle are regarded as domestic (Wendorf and Schild 1994), and it may have been in the Western Desert that the African pattern of cattle herding developed, wherein cattle serve as a "walking larder" and provide milk and blood, rather than meat (except for ceremonial occasions) and are the economic basis for power and prestige. Pottery is very rare in these sites, but distinctive. It is decorated over the entire exterior with complex patterns of impressions applied with a comb in a rocking motion. The source of this pottery has not been identified, but it is among the oldest known in Africa, and older than pottery in Southwest Asia. These early people probably came into the desert after the summer rains from either farther south or the adjacent Nile Valley, in either case searching for pasture for their cattle. Each fall, when the surface water in the playas dried up and there was no water for them or their cattle, they had to return to the Nile, or perhaps to the better watered areas to the south.
3 By 9000 years ago (8000 bp, uncalibrated), the settlements were much larger, and their inhabitants were able to live in the desert year-round, digging large, deep wells and living in organized villages consisting of small huts arranged in straight lines. The many plant remains in these sites tell us they were collecting large numbers of edible wild plants, including sorghum, millets, legumes, tubers, and fruits. Around 8800 years ago (7800 bp, uncalibrated), they began to make pottery locally, possibly the earliest pottery in Egypt. A few hundred years later, around 8100 years ago (7100 bp, uncalibrated), sheep and goats occur for the first time at Nabta, almost certainly introduced from Southwest Asia, where domestic caprovids had been known for over 2000 years. There must have been many changes in the settlement system to accommodate these new animals; the settlements are very large and contain numerous hearths, but there is no evidence of huts or houses.
4 A major change occurred in the character of the Neolithic society at Nabta occurred around 7500 years ago, following a major drought which drove the previous groups from the desert. The groups who returned to the desert now clearly had a complex social system that expressed a degree of organization and control not previously seen in Egypt. They sacrificed young cows and buried them in clay-lined and roofed chambers covered by rough stone tumuli, they erected alignments of large, unshaped stones, they built Egypt's earliest astronomical measuring device (a "calendar circle" which appears to have been used to mark the summer solstice), and they constructed more than 30 complex structures having both surface and subterranean features. A shaped stone from one of these complexes may be the oldest known sculpture in Egypt.
5 These structures are important because they indicate the way the people were able to organize work, celebrate their culture, and perhaps express their religious beliefs, and furthermore, they tell us that the Saharan people may have been more highly organized than their contemporaries in the Nile Valley.
II - Nabta: A Regional Ceremonial Center
6 A regional ceremonial center is a place where related but widely separated groups gather periodically to conduct ceremonies and to reaffirm their social and political solidarity. Even today in many parts of Africa these centers serve as foci of religious, political and social functions for the entire group. Nabta seems to have been such a center for pastoralists living in the southwestern portion of the Egyptian Western Desert. It probably began to function as a regional ceremonial center during the Middle Neolithic (8100-7600 years ago), when groups residing in other nearby basins gathered there for ceremonial and other purposes during the summer wet season when the playa was at its largest extent. This gathering occurred on a dune along the northwestern shore of the playa where there are hundreds of hearths and more than two meters of accumulated cultural debris.
7 Among the more interesting elements in the cultural debris at this gathering site were numerous bones of cattle. While present in most sites, bones of cattle are elsewhere never very numerous, good evidence that they were kept primarily for their milk and blood, rather than for meat. This pattern resembles the role of cattle among modern African pastoralists, where cattle represent wealth and political power and are rarely killed except on important ceremonial or social occasions, such as the death of a leader or a marriage. This (ancient) so-called "African Cattle Complex" may have begun in the Western Desert of Egypt.
8 The role of Nabta as a regional ceremonial center is also indicated by a north-south alignment of nine large (average, 3 x 2 x 0.5 m) quartzitic sandstone slabs set upright about 100 m apart, and partially imbedded in playa sediments near the gathering area along the northwest margin of the seasonal lake. The blocks were unshaped, and many of them are now broken; however, they can be refitted. Outcrops of similar sandstone occur in the vicinity, some less than a kilometer from the alignment. The alignment cannot be dated precisely, but it is probably Late Neolithic in age, and if so it was erected between 7500 and 5500 years ago (7500 BP = 5500 BC). It is similar to the large stone alignments found in Western Europe, where they are dated to the late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age, about the same age as the Nabta alignment. There are other alignments known farther south in both East and West Africa, but they are thought to date much later, to the Iron Age.
9 About 300 m beyond the north end of the Nabta alignment is a "calendar circle" consisting of a series of small sandstone slabs arranged in a circle about 4 m in diameter. Among the ring of stones are four pairs of larger stones, each pair set close together and separated by a narrow space, or gate. The gates on two of these pairs align generally north-south; the gates on the other two pairs form a line at 700 east of north, which aligns with the calculated position of sunrise at the summer solstice 6000 years ago. In the center of the circle are six upright slabs arranged in two lines, whose astronomical function, if any, is not evident. Charcoal from one of the numerous hearths around the "calendar" dated around 6800 years ago (6000 bp +/- 60 years, CAMS {1} - 17287).
10 Another 300 meters farther north of the calendar circle is a stone-covered tumulus containing the remains of a complete articulated young adult cow buried in a chamber that was dug into the floor of the wadi, surrounded by a clay collar, and roofed with limbs of tamarisk. The chamber was then covered with broken rocks forming a mound 8 meters in diameter and a meter high. A piece of wood from the roof yielded a calibrated radiocarbon date between 7400 and 7300 years ago (6470 bp +/- 270 years, CAMS - 17289). In the same area seven other similar stone tumuli containing the remains of cattle were excavated, but none of them had subsurface chambers; instead, the bones of the cattle, a few of which were still articulated, were simply placed among the stones.
11 Among the most interesting features at Nabta is the group of thirty "complex structures" located in an area about 500 meters long and 200 meters wide, on a high remnant of playa clays and silts about a kilometer south of the large settlement which yielded so many bones of cattle. Each of these structures consists of a group of large, elongated, roughly shaped or unshaped sandstone blocks set upright to frame an oval area about five meters in length and four meters in width, oriented slightly west of north. In the center of this oval there is one, sometimes two, very large flat slabs laid horizontally. Two of these structures have been excavated, a third has been tested, and drill-holes have been dug at two others. All are basically similar, although they differ in some details. All of the excavated and tested structures were built over mushroom-shaped tablerocks, the tops of which were deeply buried (from two to three and a half meters below the surface) in heavy playa clays and silts. These tablerocks are quartzitic lenses in the underlying bedrock which were shaped by erosion of the softer surrounding sediments before the overlying playa sediments were deposited. How the Nabta people managed to find these tablerocks deeply buried below the surface is not clear, but it may have been mere chance and occurred during the excavation of a water well. Except for the structures, however, there is no other archaeological material in this area, which is highly unusual for the Nabta Basin, where archaeological sites of various ages occur almost everywhere.
12 The excavation of the largest of these complex structures disclosed that before the upright stones were erected, a large pit about six meters in diameter and four meters deep had been dug. The table rock at the base of the pit was shaped by removing the irregular edges, leaving a convex perimeter on three sides. The fourth side, at the north end, was worked by flaking to form a straight edge. The top of the table rock was also smoothed. The pit was then partially refilled with playa clay to a level about a half meter above the top of the table rock, and then an enormous (ca. 2.5 tons), carefully shaped stone was brought in and held in position by several small slabs. The base of the shaped stone was 2.5 meters below the surface. What this "sculpture" represents is not clear; it is shaped on only two sides, and its sculptors used the natural bedding in the rock to achieve a wide, curved surface which they smoothed. In some views the stone vaguely resembles a large animal. After the shaped stone was placed in position, the pit was backfilled completely, and the surface architecture of large upright stones and two large horizontal central stones was erected directly over the tablerock.
13 The other excavated structure also had been erected over a tablerock, and it too had a large stone over the tablerock, but work on that stone was limited to a few flakes removed from one end. The third complex structure was only tested. It was one of eight that were tightly clustered and interlocked together. The units were smaller, constructed of smaller stones, but had the same configuration with a large horizontal central stone. The test excavations recovered charcoal from a shelf on the edge of the pit under the structure, and this charcoal yielded a calibrated radiocarbon age between 5600 and 5400 years ago (4800 +- 80 years bp; DRI 3358). This is the only date available for these structures, and it is about 1500 years later than we had estimated from the stratigraphic evidence. This cluster differs from the other complex structures, and it may relate to a late phase in this phenomena; however, there is no other reason to reject the date.
14 Drilling at two other structures showed that they had also been erected over buried tablerocks. Although only two of these features were excavated completely, and a third only tested, it is highly likely that most of the others were also built over deeply buried tablerocks that may or may not have been modified, and may also have large worked stones in the fill above the tablerock. These complex structures appear to be unique to Nabta; they are not known to occur in the Nile Valley, or elsewhere in the Western Desert. It should be noted, however, that they are difficult to recognize (they were regarded a bedrock outcrops for many years), and they may be more widespread in the Eastern Sahara than now believed.
15 We had expected to find burials of elite individuals below the central stones, but no traces of human remains were seen, although the excavations were carried beyond the limits of the original pits dug to expose the tablerock. The function of the complex structures remains unknown, however, it may be useful to consider the implications of their presence at Nabta.
III - Additional Comments
16 The construction of the megaliths and the large complex structures at Nabta required significant effort, indicating the presence of a religious or political authority with control over human resources for an extended period of time. They, together with the calendar circle and cattle burials, represent an elaborate and previously unsuspected ceremonialism in the Neolithic of the Eastern Sahara. Although the evidence remains insecure and thus it cannot be demonstrated that these Saharan cattle pastoralists had a ranked society (NDLR: i.e. ranked pastoralists), this is, nevertheless, a strong possibility.
17 The discoveries at Nabta Playa suggest the possibility of a previously unrecognized relationship between the Neolithic people living along the Nile and pastoralists in the adjacent Sahara which may have contributed to the rise of social complexity in ancient Egypt. This complexity, as expressed by different levels of authority within the society, forms the basis for the structure of both the Neolithic society at Nabta and the Old Kingdom of Egypt. It was this authority at Nabta which made possible the planned arrangement of their villages, the excavation of large, deep wells, and the construction of complex stone structures made of large, shaped and unshaped stones. There are other Nabta features which are shared by the two areas, but which appear suddenly and without evident local antecedents in the late Predynastic and early Old Kingdom in the Nile Valley. These include the role of cattle to express differences of wealth, power and authority, the emphasis on cattle in religious beliefs, and the use of astronomical knowledge and devices to predict solar events. Many of these features have a prior and long history of development at Nabta.
18 The geographic position of the Nabta center is also of interest. Nabta may have been a contact point between the early Neolithic groups along the Nile who had an agricultural economy and the cattle pastoralists in the Eastern Sahara. The functional separation of these two different economies may have played a significant role in the emergence of complexity among both groups. The evidence for Nilotic influence on pastoralists is not extensive and is presently limited to ceramic technology, domestic caprovids, and the occasional trade of shells of Nile species and rare stones from the Nile gravel. However, there are many aspects of political and ceremonial life in the Predynastic and Old Kingdom that reflects a strong impact from Saharan cattle pastoralists.
19 The likely possibility of a symbiotic relationship between the cattle pastoralists in the Sahara and the Neolithic groups in the Nile Valley points to a potentially important role for the Nabta regional ceremonial center. Among East African cattle pastoralists regional ceremonial centers, because of their integrative role, are frequently placed near boundaries between different segments of a tribe, or between different tribal groups. The Nabta center could well have served that purpose, it could have been located between several groups of pastoralists, and between pastoralists and the Neolithic farmers along the Nile, 100 km away.
20 It has long been assumed that Egypt borrowed the concepts of complexity from Mesopotamia; however, it is now generally recognized that a process like social complexity cannot be diffused from one area to another, but instead develops from local causes. It might occur, for example, when there are two radically different economic systems in close physical proximity, as is found where agriculturists have close relationships with pastoralists. Pastoralists usually live in tense harmony with their village neighbors, but from time to time they will take advantage of a weakness and take control. It is in this setting that the socially complex Late Neolithic cattle pastoralists and their regional ceremonial center at Nabta is of particular importance.
21 There are many features in the religious beliefs and social systems of early Egyptians which are not found in Mesopotamia. Among the ancient Egyptians, cattle were the central focus of the belief system. They were deified and regarded as earthly representatives of the gods. A cow was also seen as the mother of the sun, who is sometimes referred to as the "Bull of Heaven." The Egyptian pharaoh was regarded as the embodiment of two gods, Horus, for Upper Egypt and Seth, for Lower Egypt, but he was primarily Horus, son of Hathor, who was a cow. Horus is also sometimes depicted as a strong bull, and images of cattle are prominent in Predynastic and Old Kingdom art; in some instances images of bulls occur with depiction's of stars. Another important Old Kingdom concept was Min, the god of rain, who is associated with a white bull, and to whom the annual harvest festival was dedicated.
22 It is significant that the emphasis on cattle in the belief system of the Old Kingdom was not reflected in the economy. While cattle were known and were the major measure of wealth, the economy was based primarily on agriculture and small livestock - sheep and goats. Also, cattle were not important among the preceding Neolithic in the Nile Valley, which suggests that the Old Kingdom belief system was imposed from the outside, perhaps in the traditional fashion, a conquest by pastoralists who periodically come in from their "lands of insolence" to conquer their farming neighbors (Coon 1958:295-323; Khazanov 1994).
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Excellent facts without flames.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^This closeness to Neolithic Europeans isn't specific to ancient Egyptians. It pertains to the Somali, Nubians, etc. They are all close to the neolithic Mediterranean populations that entered Europe from the Aegean Sea (see the affinity of the pooled NE African sample in Brace et al 2005). This closeness can be seen in craniometric data, limb data, as well as genetic data. It's a function of Epipalaeolithic Egyptian ancestry:
quote: Humero-clavicular, brachial and crural indices in a large sample (n=75) of Linienbandkeramik (LBK), Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age specimens from the middle Elbe-Saale-Werra valley (MESV) were compared with Eurasian and African terminal Pleistocene, European Mesolithic and geographically disparate recent human specimens. Mesolithic Europeans display considerable variation in humero-clavicular and brachial indices yet none approach the extreme "hyper-polar" morphology of LBK humans from the MESV. In contrast, Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age peoples display elongated brachial and crural indices reminiscent of terminal Pleistocene and "tropically adapted" recent humans.
Note that Galaghner et al understand this limb measurement difference as temporal (early farmers were cold adapted, later farmers were tropically adapted), but this (seemingly temporal) difference is likely the result of differential local assimilation of native European hunter gatherers. As Brace 2005's data showed, some neolithic Germans resemble living Europeans more and others resemble the earliest colonists more.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: just disagreed with Dead/anglopyramidologist (and your's apparently) interpretation of the Froment results.
What is this "interpretation of Froment" that you disagreed with and how is this "interpretation" incompatible with the Holliday 2013 paper you cited in contradiction of me?
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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"http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2015-04-07/russell-westbrook-gives-all-start-game-mvp-car-to-single-mother-oklahoma-city-thunder" Russell Westbrook gives MVP car to single mother
"Russell Westbrook is one of the most passionate players both on and off the court.
The Thunder star proved how dedicated he is to the community by donating a car to a single mother of two. Westbrook got the car back in February as a gift for winning MVP of the All-Star game. He said he wanted to honor "all the hard work she's done to keep her family together. I just want to be able to help others any way I can."
Russell Westbrook brings tears of joy to single mom Kerstin Gonzales,....
Wealthy Black Ball player gives car to "Mestizo" looking single mother...
How many Black single mothers are there ?? and does he mean to say that he could not find one worthy of this help ??
Posts: 2818 | From: new york | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
"since we don't know the situation, lets give him the Benefit of the doubt."
I disagree here Mike.
We kind of do know the situation.....we have analyzed Black behavior enough to recognize the patterns.
Charity is Charity, but as they say....
Charity starts at Home.
PS: Mulattoes typically dislike Blacks or often perceive themselves as superior to Blacks, while at the same time they idolize Whites. What is this man thinking ???? apparently little or no sense of racial consciousness.
-------------------- Keldal Posts: 2818 | From: new york | Registered: Apr 2014
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He didn't personally choose who the car was going to. Some other person did, a white woman from some kind of community care service was asked to nominate someone for the gift and she selected the Hispanic woman.
Whether he left it to people who he could have expected to be more sympathetic to black single parents is another matter.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by kdolo: 'He didn't personally choose who the car was going to.'....
This is exactly my point.
he doesnt care enough. But you notice that the white woman who made sure a Black woman didnt benefit.
..with great power comes great responsibility. Charity begins at home.
You can't assume that he didn't care. It may all have been some kind of publicity stunt arranged in advance, ie the plan may have been for him to donate the car even before he won it. After all if people have a choice on giving away a car, their relatives will probably be their first choice.
My own feeling that because Blacks have been made to feel guilty or thankful on account of affirmative action and equal rights they feel they have to make a show of reciprocation in some way, although they are still being robbed a lot of the time. It is as though some 'successful' blacks are made to feel that someone is doing them a favour or some kindness so they have to go out the way to show how non racist and kind they can also be. You also have to know more about the demographic profile of the area where that sporting club is based.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
Joe Mintsa Whats Is Wrong With Black People table of content make me want to read the book.
The mood in the world today is such that either you believe that Black people are natural slaves, or you believe that White people are evil by nature. In either case, you are in a stalemate: you can't change "nature", can you Yet, not only is it very improbable for someone to turn up slave or evil just by nature; it is neither demonstrable that evil is conditioned by skin colour. The question, here, is: why should evil be White; and why should evil's target be Black In other words, what is wrong with evil always tending to choose Black In fact, the actual question is: what is wrong with Black people always tending to be evil's preferred targets This book simply personifies a totally different type of intuition, where the most unsuspected - yet, the most damning - causes of the suffering and the struggles of Africans in today's world are not only laid open with courage, but also resolved with vision. ISBN 978-1-4716-1039-4. For more info, write to JoeMintsa@hotmail.com or... More >
Amazon.com doesn't have the book of Joe Mintsa but they have a similar book name Whats Wrong With Being Black.
Thoroughly researched and extensively referenced, this highly credible work uses evidence from biblical, anthropological, historical, and ancient literature sources dating as far back as 3,000 years ago to support the facts that: People of color have a positive history. People of color were the first to give structure and order in society. Scripture cites Black role models. Current issues such as idolatry and slavery have their roots in the practices of ancestors. Color was not used as a segregating tool until 300 years ago. Racial equality is a truth Black people have different issues. There is nothing wrong with being black. I have said,...all of you are children of the most High (Psalm 82:6). Pastor of the largest church in Western Europe, Matthew Ashimolowo looks at the glorious past of the Black race and examines uncompromisingly the conformations that have molded Black people. His fascinating insight celebrates the rich heritage and confronts today s challenges
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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quote:Originally posted by kdolo: "You can't assume that he didn't care."
That is about all you can assume....
My own feeling .... Blacks tend to love everybody but themselves and their own.
Kdolo you didn't follow up on your own post well enough. Your conclusions were based on prejudice and you should concede that you should have followed it further before making your comments.
If you have adverse or prejudiced comments to make about black people, you may go ahead but don't relate it to incomplete evidence.
Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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@Mike You really need to consider whether your being black is about how you relate among and within black people on an everyday basis or it is mainly about you concern about how they conform to your notions of European development and civilization.
You first start of which a comment about "big mouth ghetto welfare queens". You really sound like white people who always say stuff like " I am not prejudiced against black people BUT I don't like those loud ghetto blacks". Being black means being sensitive towards the condition of blacks regardless of how much some of them annoy you.
I will tell you one thing. Black people in my observation speak louder than whites and it is down to both physical and cultural differences. So going about blacks speaking loudly is not really meaningful. People don't just change their cultural induced mannerisms to suit you any more than most people develop an urge to change the accent they were raised it.
Then again you go on about "ghetto mothers with x amount of children by x different men". How do you know that the Hispanic woman's children were all from the same father? You don't. And how do you know that because a black woman has 5 children by 5 different men she doesn't care about them or love them, or strive to help them as much?
All because you were taken by the sight of an attractive light-skinned Latino woman with light-skinned children who didn't confirm to the stereotypical image of the black welfare queen. Involve yourself more with the social environment of black people and less with concern about the way they are portrayed and stereotyped in the media.
And where did this issue of "No Justice, No Peace come from"? I will show where it comes from in another post, and prove to you how all the media focus on black people and their issues in the media, traditional or social, whether or not they are black controlled or not, revolve around a single thing, getting black people not to focus on their main power, their ability to vote tactically and strategicallyPosts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
After reading Raxter thesis a bit better, or actually for the first time.
Here is the following, full citation. Instead of the broken down version. Folks like lioness and ilk used.
quote: Cranial and dental evidence then tends to support a scenario of biological continuity in Egypt.
[...]
The main skeletal sample consisted of 492 males and 528 females, all adults from the Predynastic and Dynastic Periods, a time spanning c. 5500 BCE-600 CE.
Egyptian body dimensions were compared to Nubian groups, as well as to modern Egyptians and other higher and lower latitude populations.
The present study found a downward trend in ancient Egyptian stature for both sexes through time, as well as decreased sexual dimorphism in stature. The decreases may be associated with dietary and social stress with the intensification of agriculture and increased societal complexity.
Modern Egyptians in the study’s sample are generally taller and heavier than their predecessors; however, modern Egyptians exhibit relatively lower sexual dimorphism in stature.
Ancient Egyptians have more tropically adapted limbs in comparison to body breadths, which tend to be intermediate when plotted against higher and lower latitude populations.
These results may reflect the greater plasticity of limb lengths compared to body breadth.
The results might also suggest early Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern influence in Northeast Africa.
-- Michelle H. Raxter (2011)
Egyptian Body Size: A Regional and Worldwide Comparison
What it says is that modern incoming populations from abroad may have influenced the body ratio. This so, especially in the North/ Lower Egypt. Since there was a trend of difference over time. Historically this is accurate.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: After reading Raxter thesis a bit better, or actually for the first time.
Here is the following, full citation. Instead of the broken down version. Folks like lioness and ilk used.
quote:
Ancient Egyptians have more tropically adapted limbs in comparison to body breadths, which tend to be intermediate when plotted against higher and lower latitude populations.
These results may reflect the greater plasticity of limb lengths compared to body breadth.
The results might also suggest early Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern influence in Northeast Africa.
-- Michelle H. Raxter (2011)
Egyptian Body Size: A Regional and Worldwide Comparison
What it says is that modern incoming populations from abroad may have influenced the body ratio. This so, especially in the North/ Lower Egypt. Since there was a trend of difference over time. Historically this is accurate.
Possible early Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern influence in Northeast Africa, interesting
But I don't know why you bring up Raxter in this thread nobody even mentioned her in this thread See if you can deal with a Joe Mintsa quote
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote: In Egypt, the earliest evidence of humans can be recognized only from tools found scattered over an ancient surface, sometimes with hearths nearby. In Wadi Kubbaniya, a dried-up streambed cutting through the Western Desert to the floodplain northwest of Aswan in Upper Egypt, some interesting sites of the kind described above have been recorded.
"Remains in the immediate eastern foreland of Kurkur, just east of the Sinn el-Kiddab escarpment, are sparse. Numerous and widely distributed hearth mounds18 occur in the area. Pottery, though sparse, further demonstrates the association of early Nile Valley and Western Desert cultures. "
--John Coleman Darnell and Deborah Darnell
The Archaeology of Kurkur Oasis, Nuq‘ Maneih, and the Sinn el-Kiddab
A Tableau of Royal Ritual Power in the Theban Western Desert
The Theban Western Desert preserves several important tableaux of late Naqada II through Early Dynastic date. One of the longest and most artistically accomplished of these tableaux is Image 1located in a wadi northeast of Gebel Tjauti, on a branch of the ‘Alamat Tal Road (Figure 1). The strongly marked tracks, with associated ceramic material, lead to the head of the wadi, in the upper part of which, despite the lack of any clear path of ascent, are a number of dry stone structures, as well as the remains of “game traps.” Near the head of this wadi, apparently the haunt of hunters traveling the Alamat Tal Road, are several concentrations of rock inscriptions, providing extreme examples of the clustering of a particular genre of image in one area, and the dominance of one genre of representation at a discrete site. We have named the wadi after an inscription at Site No. 2 — the serekh of the late First Dynasty ruler Horus Qa-a.
The Origin of the Predynastic: Western Desert and Central Sudan
With the intensification of archaeological research in the Egyptian Western Desert evidence of prehistoric humanoccupation has been consistently found in both the oasesregion and the playas region to the south. Major breaks in the chrono-cultural sequence are related to climaticvariations. After a major arid event during the latePleistocene, which completely dried up the Sahara,forcing the people to cluster along the Nile (and in theCentral Sahara massifs), the Holocene period wascharacterised by better climatic conditions due to anorthward shifting of the monsoon summer rain regime(Kuper and Kropelin 2006; Wendorf and Schild 2001).The desert was again settled, although cyclical minor aridspells required the population to move back and forthfrom the desert to the Nile or to remain in the oases. Fromthe 4th millennium BC another major arid event forcedthe people to concentrate in the oases area and to settlemore permanently to the Nile Valley"
-- Karen Exell
Egypt in its African Context
Proceedings of the conferenceheld at The Manchester Museum,University of Manchester, 2-4 October 2009
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [QB] Possible early Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern influence in Northeast Africa, interesting
Why is this interesting?
Oh I forgot, what you put is boring I take it back
No, it's not boring. Go ahead....let your eurocentrism shine.
Why is that particularly interesting?
Apparently you forget quite a lot. Amnesia?
Sure, it was boring..., typical response by a KKK member!
quote: "Radiocarbon data from 150 archaeological excavations in the now hyper-arid Eastern Sahara of Egypt, Sudan, Libya, and Chad reveal close links between climatic variations and prehistoric occupation during the past 12,000 years. Synoptic multiple-indicator views for major time slices demonstrate the transition from initial settlement after the sudden onset of humid conditions at 8500 B.C.E. to the exodus resulting from gradual desiccation since 5300 B.C.E.
Southward shifting of the desert margin helped trigger the emergence of pharaonic civilization along the Nile, influenced the spread of pastoralism throughout the continent, and affects sub-Saharan Africa to the present day".
--Kuper R, Kröpelin S.
science. 2006 Aug 11;313(5788):803-7. Epub 2006 Jul 20.
Climate-controlled Holocene occupation in the Sahara: motor of Africa's evolution.
Collaborative Research Center 389 (ACACIA), University of Cologne, Institute of Prehistoric Archaeology, Africa Research Unit, Jennerstrasse 8, 50823 Köln, Germany.
quote: "The elaborate process of burial, which would become profoundly important in pharaonic society for 3,000 years, is much more pronounced in the Neolithic Badarian culture of Middle Egypt than in the earlier Saharan Neolithic or the Neolithic in northern Egypt.
[...]
Cultural differences went well beyond pottery types, however: the Naqada burials may symbolize increasing social complexity through time as the graves became more differentiated, in size and numbers of grave goods, whereas at Buto-Ma’adi sites burials are of a fairly simple type and seem to have had much less socio-cultural significance.
Occupation at Ma’adi came to an end in the later 4th millennium bc (equivalent to the Naqada IIc phase), when the site was abandoned. At Buto, the stratigraphic evidence suggests the assimilation of the Lower Egyptian Predynastic Buto-Ma’adi culture in Layer III, and the continuation into Dynastic times of a material culture that had its roots in the Predynastic Naqada culture of Upper Egypt."
[...]
What may be seen at the Badarian sites is the earliest evidence in Egypt of pronounced ceremonialism surrounding burials, which become much more elaborate in the 4thmillennium bc Naqada culture. Brunton excavated about 750 Badarian burials, most of which were contracted ones in shallow oval pits. Most burials were placed on the left side, facing west with the head to the south. This later became the standard orientation of Naqada culture burials. Although the Badarian burials had few grave goods, there was usually one pot in a grave. Some burials also had jewelry, made of beads of seashell, stone, bone, and ivory. A few burials contained stone cosmetic palettes or chert tools.
[...]
Burials such as the Badarian ones represent the material expression of important beliefs and practices in a society concerning the transition from life to death (see Box 5-B). Burial evidence may symbolize roles and social status of the dead and commemoration of this by the living, expressions of grief by the living, and possibly also concepts of an afterlife.
--Kathryn A. Bard - (2015)
An Introduction to the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt
quote: "As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be similar to other Egyptians, including much later material (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods. From the central location of the Badarian samples in Figure 2, the current study finds the Badarian to be relatively morphologically close to the centroid of all the Egyptian samples. The Badarian have been shown to exhibit greatest morphological similarity with the temporally successive EPD (Table 5). Finally, the biological distinctiveness of the Badarian from other Egyptian samples has also been demonstrated (Tables 6 and 7).
These results suggest that the EDyn do form a distinct morphological pattern. Their overlap with other Egyptian samples (in PC space, Fig. 2) suggests that although their morphology is distinctive, the pattern does overlap with the other time periods. These results therefore do not support the Petrie concept of a \Dynastic race" (Petrie, 1939; Derry, 1956). Instead, the results suggest that the Egyptian state was not the product of mass movement of populations into the Egyptian Nile region, but rather that it was the result of primarily indigenous development combined with prolonged small-scale migration, potentially from trade, military, or other contacts.
This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential in-migration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK. A possible explanation is that the Egyptian state formed through increasing control of trade and raw materials, or due to military actions, potentially associated with the use of the Nile Valley as a corridor for prolonged small scale movements through the desert environment."
--Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007).
Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
Go recite your Mein Kampf "mantra".
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [QB] Possible early Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern influence in Northeast Africa, interesting
Why is this interesting?
Oh I forgot, what you put is boring I take it back
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Same thing with the archaeological/cultural continuity which show them to be indigenous Africans. Even displaying "STRONG SIMILARITIES TO MODERN AFRICAN CULTURES".
"Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns , appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons. [...] Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization" - The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press (2001). p.28
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Pleistocene through to the Christian periods, reveals a break in population continuity between the Pleistocene (Jebel Sahaba) and the Final Neolithic (Gebel Ramlah, dating to the first half of the fifth millennium BC) samples. The dental traits from Jebel Sahaba align more closely with modern sub-Saharan populations, while Gebel Ramlah and later align closer to Egypt specifically and to the Sahara in general.
--Michael Brass Reconsidering the emergence of social complexity in early Saharan pastoral societies, 5000 – 2500 B.C.
quote: "Of special interest are finds that may testify to the beliefs of the population discussed here. Namely, in two cases from cemetery E-01-2, skulls were found that indicated tooth replacement in antiquity. In both cases, the teeth were apparently collected and repositioned by Neolithic people after being disturbed by later burials. In the first case, a young female’s maxillary anterior alveoli contained a combination of mandibular and misplaced maxillary teeth (Irish et al. 2005). In the second case, another young female’s maxilla and mandible contained two incorrectly placed teeth. Also in the same cemetery, four bracelets were found encircling a right humerus (Fig. 38), which had been moved from its original anatomical position during the deposition of a later burial. However, the bracelets were maintained in place by the insertion of the individual’s own right ulna and radius that had been fractured post-mortem."
--Michał Kobusiewicz, Jacek Kabaciński, Romuald Schild, Joel D. Irish and Fred Wendorf
Burial practices of the Final Neolithic pastoralists at Gebel Ramlah, Western Desert of Egypt
quote: The regional distribution of an ancient Y-chromosome haplogroup C-M130 (Hg C) in Asia provides an ideal tool of dissecting prehistoric migration events. We identified 465 Hg C individuals out of 4284 males from 140 East and Southeast Asian populations. We genotyped these Hg C individuals using 12 Y-chromosome biallelic markers and 8 commonly used Y-short tandem repeats (Y-STRs), and performed phylogeographic analysis in combination with the published data. The results show that most of the Hg C subhaplogroups have distinct geographical distribution and have undergone long-time isolation, although Hg C individuals are distributed widely across Eurasia. Furthermore, a general south-to-north and east-to-west cline of Y-STR diversity is observed with the highest diversity in Southeast Asia. The phylogeographic distribution pattern of Hg C supports a single coastal 'Out-of-Africa' route by way of the Indian subcontinent, which eventually led to the early settlement of modern humans in mainland Southeast Asia. The northward expansion of Hg C in East Asia started approximately 40 thousand of years ago (KYA) along the coastline of mainland China and reached Siberia approximately 15 KYA and finally made its way to the Americas.
--Zhong H1, Shi H, Qi XB, Xiao CJ, Jin L, Ma RZ, Su B.
Global distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroup C reveals the prehistoric migration routes of African exodus and early settlement in East Asia.
quote: Kröpelin's analysis revealed that it took some 3,000 years — from 5,600 to 2,700 BC — for the fully vegetated savannah there to transform into a barren desert 4.
[...]
The results from Lake Yoa crown a long list of discoveries that Kröpelin has made in the region. In one of his earliest major finds, Kröpelin established that the dry valley known as Wadi Howar, which sits in an extremely arid part of northern Sudan, was once one of Africa's largest rivers and a tributary to the Nile7. This extinct river flowed from about 9,500–4,500 years ago and supported a rich savannah that was home to a host of animals, including antelopes, giraffes, zebras and elephants.
quote:While the relative similarity between the Upper and Lower Egyptian morphologies is addressed above, underlying heterogeneity is most likely to be problematic for the Jebel Sahaba foragers, because of their temporal distance from the other populations. In addition, there is some evidence from dental morphology to suggest that these Paleolithic Nubians are of independent origin to the later Nubian populations (Irish, 2005).
--Anne P. Starling* and Jay T. Stock
Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 134:520–528 (2007)
It is entirely appropriate to note that when the international salvage efforts began, there was virtually no information available on the prehistoric development anywhere in Nubia, and even in Egypt little was known concerning prehistoric materials beyond a few scattered and rolled pieces found in ancient deposits along the Nile. From this limited evidence, archaeologists had concluded that the Nile Valley, both Nubia and Egypt, has been a culturally conservative cul-de-sac where the technological and typological attributes of the Middle Paleolithic survived relatively unchanged until near the end of the Pleistocene. The lithic industries of Late Paleolithic age along the Nile Valley were believed to be limited to a few simple tool types, usually made on flakes, and with a high frequency of the Levallois technology which elsewhere is characteristic of the Middle Paleolithic. Those diagnostic elements of the Late Paleolithic -the blade technology and the associated complex of tools emphasizing end-scrapers, burins, and backed pieces -were believed to be absent. These simple flake industries were seen as persisting long after com pound tools, indicated by the presence of geometric microliths, had appeared in Europe and southwest Asia.
At a still later date, the role of the Nile Valley in the origin and development of food production was also discounted as it became fashionable to regard the upland areas around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers as the probable center for the origins of agriculture.
Perhaps the major result of the Nubia prehistoric campaign was to lay to rest these concepts of Nilotic cultural conservatism. The Nubian work not only disclosed the presence of numerous rich prehistoric living sites ranging in age from Early Paleolithic to the beginning of written records, but these sites yielded convincing evidence that they had been occupied by groups whose lithic technology and typology were fully as complex and as progressive as those from other parts of the world.
There is no evidence that these early efforts to use grain for food resulted in a corresponding primary development of food production, but they were an important first step which may ultimately have led to the crucial achievement of food production, either along the Nile or elsewhere in the Near East.
The Combined Prehistoric Expedition surveyed and located several hundred prehistoric sites within the assigned concession areas, and of these, 102 sites were excavated and studied systematically. These range from Early Paleolithic to Neolithic. The final reports on these studies have been published in several volumes (Wendorf, 1965 and 1968; Marks, 1970). The Prehistoric sites in Nubia have been grouped into five broad cultural stages, and within each stage several distinct lithic industries were defined.
The stages may be summarized as follows:
Nubian Early Stone Age:
The sites of this stage are typologically and technologically within the range of the Acheulean complex and share many resemblances with the Middle and Late Acheulean from further south, especially Klor Abu Anga near Khartoum, Sudan. No living sites of this group are known, only quarries and workshops. Ferrocrete sandstone was preferred for tool production, although quartz was also important in some sites. Bifaces were the most common tools, while cleavers, trihedral forms, and para-Levallois flakes are rare. Levallois technology appears during the middle phase of this stage and becomes increasingly important thereafter. Nubian Early Stone Age sites occur only in the Older Pediments. None are known to occur within the silts of the river.
Nubian Middle Stone Age: This stage is generally equivalent to the Middle Paleolithic elsewhere. It contains four distinct industries the Nubian Mousterian, Denticulate Mousterian and the Nubian Middle Paleolithic and the Khormusan. The latter has affinities with the Sangoan-Lupemban of central and west Africa; the first two are more similar to the Mousterian complexes of the Near East and Europe. The first three of these industries share the following features: a nearly complete absence of handaxes (these are replaced by biface foliates or flake tools); a strong preference for ferrocrete sandstone for tools; and a frequent use of Levallois technology (although this varies among the three industries of this stage). Sites of these three industries occur only in the Older Pediments. The Khormusan sites occur imbedded in the oldest Nile silts known in the part of the Valley and are believed to date between 65,000 and 55,000 years old. Khormusan sites record a diverse food economy.
They contain an abundance of fish remains as well as numerous bones of wild cattle, gazelle and hartebeest. In addition to the typical wide, flat Levallois flakes, the Khormusan sites contain numerous burins (a kind of engraving tool), scrapers and perforators.
Nubian Upper Stone Age:
Three distinct industries are also included in this stage: the Khormusan, the Gemian, and the Sebilian. Each of these industries is markedly different from the others, but as a group they share an emphasis on medium-sized flakes for the manufacture of tools; the biface foliates of the preceding stage are gone, and there are no true geometric, microlithic, or backed microblade tools characteristic of later stage. Except for the Sebilian, which differs sharply from all other known lithic assemblages in Nubia, sites of this stage yield increasing frequencies of artifacts made on Nile pebbles, while burins, endscrapers, and retouched points occur commonly in one or the other industries. The Sebilian retains the emphasis on ferrocrete sandstone preferred during the earlier stages, and the tools of this industry emphasized various kinds of truncations. These differences have led to the suggestion that the Sebilians were an outside, non-Nilotic group who briefly intruded into the area. In some respects they have close affiliations to some of the industries known farther south in central Africa -especially the Tshitolian.
Nubian Final Stone Age:
This stage contains four distinct industries: the Halfan, the Qadan, the Arkinian, and the Shamarkian. All of these industries share a tendency for the retouched tools to be microlithic, suggesting extensive use of composite tools. They also all make frequent use of microblades and bladelets in the manufacture of finished tools, and Nile chert pebbles were used almost exclusively as raw material for these tools. The Nile and its resources, especially fish, become increasingly important, and it is during this stage that the first use of ground grain occurs. There is an overlap in time between the Nubian Final Stone Age and the preceeding Nubian Upper Stone Age. The earliest Nubian Final Stone Age sites (the Halfan) occur in situ in Nile silts and have radiocarbon dates of around 17,000 B.G., while the Nubian Upper Stone Age probably begins before 20,000 B.G., but survives as a technological stage represented by the Sebilian, as late as 9,000 B.G.
Nubian Ceramic Age:
This stage includes at least three distinct lithic industries in Nubia. Pottery, the diagnostic feature of this stage, first appears in the final phase of the Shamarkian industry, and is also present in two distinct and seemingly contemporary groups named the Abkan and Khartum Variant. Both the Shamarkian and Abkan ceramics appear to be stimulated by Egyptia sources; however, the Khartum Variant pottery clearly is similar to that of Shaheinab in central Sudan. All three industries share an emphasis on large flake tools, and the Abkan and Shamarkian sites are dramatically larger than those known previously in Nubia. This change of settlement size may indicate the appearance in Nubia of a new economic resource -possibly cultivation.
quote: Settled communities in Africa began to be developed in at least 20,000 years BC. Quite probably these communities first sprung up along the River Nile in the cataract regions of southern Egypt and northern Sudan or as it was once known Ancient Nubia. Archaeological historians believe that barley was been harvested as early as 16,000 years BC. The people living in these established and settled communities had the skills and capabilities to use wild grain as well as the ability to exploit water resources and were able to form stable and long lasting communities. The domestication of plants and the building up of livestock herds also led to the emergence of aesthetics, individual taste, discrimination as well a language. Modern day African language has its foundations in these small and settled communities established thousands of years previously. The beginning of modern day history can be partly marked through the introduction and development of agricultural systems.
[...]
They manufactured and used stone and bone tools as well as pottery. But the foundations of these communities could go back to much earlier time of 15,000 years BC. By that period the Nile Valley was a rich source of food. There was an abundance of wild game, grains, animals and fish and later on wild fowl. Along coastal regions shell fish was a valuable source of food. Permanent communities in sustainable locations were formed. Effective methods were devised for storing food. Smoking and drying techniques were developed and as a result of improvement to nutrition population growth occurred. Also a range of millet and dry rice was grown in West Africa at this time while sorghum was grown in Chad and Sudan. Yam and palm oil quite possibly could have been cultivated at a much earlier period. Communities could have been based around the movement of wild game and the seasonal harvesting of wild crops.
[...]
Western and Central Sudan has a history of successfully cultivating specialized crops. It is thought that the camel was introduced into Africa before the birth of Christ and some historians claim that the horse has its origins in Africa and that the donkey was first domesticated in north east Africa. Other people claim that cattle were first domesticated in the Sahara region because rock paintings have been found that show people with cattle. A grain of corn has been found in this region which dates back to 19,000 years ago give or take 300 years. This is thought to show proof of the early domestication of grass at a time when Asia Minor and West Asia were covered in ice. One also has to take in the role of birds when considering the origins and development of agriculture. They might have helped to promote plant growth across a region by dropping seeds over a wide area through their digestive system. Tuerag traders may also have taken new plants, seeds and trees along early trade routes and planted them en-route.
[...]
Research by Patrick Munson of Illonois University where he excavated ruins in the Tichitt Walata region of Mauritania and found an early agricultural community which dates back to between 1500 Years BC and 1100 Years BC. (*Which is dated earlier now, back to 4000 Kya) Most of the villages were built on the top of cliffs and were made of stone. The walls of the cliff plus a series of protective walls help to protect the villages. Some of these communities covered an area of 1 square kilometer. Munson believed that they could have been food producing as well as food gathering communities. Some of the communities were constructed alongside lakes and could have been home to fishermen, herdsmen and horticulturalists.
[...]
The beginnings of livestock rearing, animal husbandry and grain cultivation could have occurred in the Sahara Desert when it was fertile savanna grassland and teeming with wild life. Animal husbandry and the domestic rearing of cattle occurred in the Sahara Desert region of Africa before it happened in the Nile Valley. Cave paintings have been found in this desert region depicting the herding of cattle. Since the start of this current millennium agriculture was seen as happening in the Sahara region as early as the 7th millennium BC. Pottery and ceramics are also linked to the development of agriculture. Pots were produced for specific purposes such as sowing, harvesting, growing plants in, for eating and drinking, all activities linked to agriculture. The greening of the Sahara Desert came to an end with ending of the last Ice Age. As the ice slowly melted in Europe and the Near East the region became more arid and was transformed into the desert region that we know today. Some pottery and rock paintings still remain from this period, which depict life as it was lived at the time.
[...]
G.P. Murdoch went against the grain of conventional thinking that saw the continent of Africa as having no past or history except for Ancient Egypt. He put forward the theory that agriculture was invented and that food plants were domesticated in the Mandingo country of the Upper Niger basin. Writing in Africa: Its People and Their Culture (1959) he expands on the concept that there was the cultivation and domestication of up to 24 nutritional and fibre plants south of the Sahara. He also raises the question as to whether the Decrue Irrigation System originated in this region and not on the Niger Bend. Also he was convinced that the domestication of cattle first happened in North Africa. Murdoch based his theories through the research he carried out exploring diet plant origins in Africa. Other researchers say that agriculture has its origins at Dhar Tichitt in Mauretania where the Decrue Water System was also practiced.
[...]
Arab writers over the centuries describe an Africa plentiful in agricultural produce. "
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Forgive me for the title, but this is a very interesting book/
Joe Mintsa is a Fanghish native, citizen of the present Gabon. At the end of his studies of philology and American history from Libreville University in 1998, he migrated to England for further studies and intensive searching and thinking on the moral and political crises of his world. His determination to bring to surface the conceptual fallacies of Egyptology and Afrocentricity, to reach a more pragmatic understanding of the "African Condition" and spell out the true needs and aspirations of Africans in today’s world, took him into a totally different path as a thinker. "What is Wrong with Black People?" (2007) is the book that features the fullest extent of this philosophical discoveries.
posted
Lionness thanks for the links to buy Joe Mintsa What is Wrong With Black People book. It is a big 700 pages book.I am probably going to buy this book in the future to read the author different point of view on black people.
The author have another book. Lionness can you find the table of content for this book.
African History Books have been written and rewritten thousands of times. But what is bizarre about all these African History Books is that they are divided into three groups: one that deals with Colonial History, one that deals with Mediterranean History, and one that deals with Pre-history. The first one tells us about the Europeans all over the African continent. The second one tells us about the Kemets, the Persians and the Greeks in North Africa. And the last one tells us about primitive Negroes who did not themselves have any idea of the notion of History; so someone else has had to write their History in their place. There is no wonder that Basil Davidson has had to come to the embittering conclusion that what is referred to as African History today is nothing but “African History Without Africans” (1999). This is the book in which the true face of what may be referred to as African History is shown in full beam to a world that has cessed to believe in it. [View on <]www.lulu.com/content/4471308]< Less
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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First off, Diop is not here anymore to defend himself, so that already makes Minsta's attacks cowardice.
Secondly, he is debunking himself if you read between the lines, since he is now trying to talk for "all black people". Yet he fails to mention what he proposes be such.
Diop proved that ancient Egyptians originated in Africa, and we now know that he was correct. This bothers eurocetrics extremely, up to a point they will use a negro who has nothing to do with the sciences he speaks of, to validate their position. And at the same time attack a black man who is schooled in the fields.
quote: Previous craniometric analyses generally noted the mosaic of archaic and modern morphology with respect to large comparative fossil samples. Brothwell and Shaw (1971) presented a craniometric analysis but are non-specific as to the actual samples and variables used for comparison. They note at least two analyses were performed with 11 and 18 variables, that the position of Iwo Eleru varied depending on the particular configuration of variables, and that the specimen was distinct from samples of modern Africans. Their Fig. 1 suggests it was closest phenotypically to early East Africans and early Egyptians but the sample contexts are not stated. It is also unclear whether references to “a large sample of north African mesolithic (sic) skulls (Brothwell and Shaw, 1971:226)” indicate that comparisons with Taforalt and Afalou were performed.
--Christopher M. Stojanowski
Iwo Eleru's place among Late Pleistocene and Early Holocene populations of North and East Africa
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