quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Maybe someone can help me out here. The idea came to mind in that thread on ”foreign ancestry in modern Egyptians”.
DJ (the ahem) made statement but as usual cannot back it up. So…I could not find any study.
What is the percentage of EUROPEAN ancestry in modern Egypt. A lot of posters repeatedly state that Egyptians were infiltrated by Greeks, Romans, Persian etc. We got the Ottoman Turks out of the way.
So …are there any studies isolating “Romans” and “Greeks” IN Egypt. Notabley along the male lines. Since female hg-H is resolved.
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: "Mask of Agamemnon" is most likely a fake made by Schlieman.
The bronze ??? Looks a little too clean......
"likely a"
and
"looks a little too"
are not proof of anything
so stop the nonsense, thanks
-and you don't know anything about ancient art to even make these guesses
You over estimate the amount of knowledge it takes to guess right on something like this.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by kdolo: "Mask of Agamemnon" is most likely a fake made by Schlieman.
The bronze ??? Looks a little too clean......
"likely a"
and
"looks a little too"
are not proof of anything
so stop the nonsense, thanks
-and you don't know anything about ancient art to even make these guesses
You over estimate the amount of knowledge it takes to guess right on something like this.
You also know nothing about the condition of ancient statuary and whether or not looking at photos on the internet is even a legitimate way of analyzing them.
So your feel-goodism belief that that statue is fake continues to be complete bullshit
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First...YOU quote where Irish made such a statement...then I will show that you are lying.
Yeah..lets have some fun.
I already quoted Haddow et al earlier in the thread. The Ptolomey Kellis 2 were pure Africans and NOT Greeks. Now it is yout turn.
Put up or shut up.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^ Hang on, we aren't talking about the Kellis 2 sample.
quote: So I ask again. Can we distinguished ancient Greeks from Africans?
It seems like they left no genetic trace in Africa. Am I wrong?
Irish said: " with regard to many of your questions, I pretty much summed them up in the presentation, i.e., biological continuity from Predynastic through Dynastic, and into post-Dynastic times, with some exceptions (apparent Greek and Roman assemblage from the two sited I mentioned)."
Next.
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Did you write that yourself? Come on man...I need sources ...not a "personal" email.
You clowns!!!
Ask your Nemesis from the FB group for help. You guys should kiss and make up. You are not going to do this by your lonesome. No disrespect intended. Just trying to help.
I need the SOURCE, I need numbers. You haven't given me anything.
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I will happy to look a fool, but YOU need to provide proof that Joel Irish made that statement you posted.
I said it is a lie. Make me look a fool. I quote Haddow which you can verify now it is your turn.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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There's no need to make you look like a fool you're doing such a great job yourself.
Tell you what, why don't you e-mail Joel Irish and ask him whether Greek and Roman dental morphologies were distinct from that of the ancient Egyptians.
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Thought so...blowing smoke. Joel Irish said no such thing.
Just as Lucas Martin's mysterious emails.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I give you a quote from an e-mail with Joel Irish to back up my comment that Greek and Egyptian dental morphologies were distinct, and you accuse me of lying. Saying that I fabricated the e-mail.
I then suggest xyyman contacts Irish directly, and he tries to duck out of it. This does your credibility no good whatsoever.
Child of the King..read the thread and look at where this guy doubts my integrity:
"Those mysterious emails again......"
OK, if you don't believe me, YOU e-mail Irish.
Jeez, it's not hard.
This is laughable, it really is!
Classic ES BS.
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I am not insulted ...to tell the truth I am very obtuse and thick skinned. Doesn't bother me, in fact I find the email response entertaining . He can't provide evidence because there is NONE.
Come on Clause, I will make it easy for you. Forgot about the "emails" . Any published research out there?
ANYONE??!!! Is there proof the Modern Egyptians are admixed .....with Europeans.
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There is a few dimensions to the discussion. I hope some of you are following.
Eg. Very few of YOU can read ancient Egyptians, Greek or Arabic. You rely on “European” translators. (Sage being an exception on glyphs). But you bone headed swallow the BS information you get 3rd hand.
Any least I can argue science and logic.
So I ask again…what is the difference between the ancient Greeks and ancient Egyptians? We now know the ancient Egyptians were closely related to SSA.
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Continuing …..after a few of my post was deleted from the other thread.
<<< Deleted as you requested >>>
Understand the question and issue. GREEK/EUROPEAN PRESENCE IN EGYPT – GENETIC EVIDENCE. No natter.
And unlike some posters. I doubt think the “swarthiness” of Greeks is due to “admixture”. The very notion of admixture per se implies there are separate/races. There never wasn’t ever ISOLATION of humans. So Africans and Europeans did not cohabit to make swarthy Greeks. Sometimes it happens other times it doesn’t. That is a simplistic view. The black/Brown color of the ancient Greece is exacty what it should be “naturally”. The Greek Islands are the first stepping stone OOA for the Neolithics. That is why they carry sub-clades of African E1b1b. The Greek scolor is what would happens as lost of pigment(depigmentation ) occurs when the “constraint” starts to lessen. Europeans are depigmented Africans.
The evidence is overwhelming. Latest example is the newly released Paabo paper on Neanderthal admixture in 40K yo human from Romania.. Paabo and his crew admits that the human is NOT related to modern Europeans and this is due to the high mixture of “Neolithic” genes in modern Europeans. This paper further confirms the OOA black “meta-population” that existed from Iberia to Australia and East Asia prior to the Neolitic arrival from North Africa into Europe and areas further East..
[ 25. June 2015, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: ausar ]
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I started reading the looong thread other but it don’t address the issue. WHAT GENETIC/SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT THE GREEKS or ROMANS WERE ***IN*** EGYPT?
<<< Stop twisting. As for nrY Chromosomes it quite well answered your question "Any studies proving the ancient Greeks or Romans are non-Africans." showing 1/4 African to 3/4 non-African >>>
What I am getting is what I stated in the OP of my thread. I referenced Larry Angel and E1b1b and African sickle cell in Greeks. We all know recent Africans were there. I am asking the reverse.
It is commonly stated in books and by posters here that the modern Egyptians are admixed with Greeks. Where is the evidence? In fact what Lioness posted from Mathilda’s blogs agree with me. Modern Egytptians are almost pure African, related to SSA. The foreign ancestray is primarily Turks @ about 12-20%.
BTW – I mark up charts to help the reader. Not everyone is as sharp as you(wink). If they want to see the original I usually quote where I get the chart from.
[ 25. June 2015, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: ausar ]
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You got it .....or maybe not even based upon the "features"
OR!!!!!!
As crazy as it may sound...,they were the SAME black people carrying AFRICAN PN2.
But you know what, I am not crazy because renowned anthroplogist Sergi also speculated just as xyyman. And Now reading through the other thread resurected by the Sage, another anthropologist Larry Angel also made the same speculation. The African traces still exist in modern Greeks, but there is no evidence of European presence in modern Egyptian. (We covered the Turks already )
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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That's my point .,,there is no evidence of Greeks in Egypt because how can you differentiate African people?
I was hoping someone prove me wrong.
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: "they were the SAME black people carrying AFRICAN PN2.
aha !!!
same/similar fucking people !!
It was "long winded" but we finally got there!
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Oh! And to address the Romans. The LATEST DNA study also confirms the Etruscans came from the "south" and not from Anatolia. Babujani et al refused to use the words black Africa. He used the word "south". Now tell me what lies south of Estrustia besides the Sea ...and Africa. lol!
Greek...Romans...Africans
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Yeah yeah Xy-YT-Hater, we know everyone or every group in history who ever built or accomplished anything were Black. Nobody in history was White. We know we know, Whites are diseased, ugly, talentless, useless, good for nothing, wicked, evil, historyless, heritage-less, identity-less, people. Who never accomplished/built anything, have no place on earth we belong (no homeland ya know), have absolutely nothing to be proud of as White people (never built or accomplished anything ya know). We have no right to exist, no right to self determination or self rule. We have no right to knowledge of self & should all just die off already.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Oh! And to address the Romans. The LATEST DNA study also confirms the Etruscans came from the "south" and not from Anatolia. Babujani et al refused to use the words black Africa. He used the word "south". Now tell me what lies south of Estrustia besides the Sea ...and Africa. lol!
Greek...Romans...Africans
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: can you provide the study on the Etrsucans ....
Origins and Evolution of the Etruscans’ mtDNA 2013
Silvia Ghirotto, Francesca Tassi, Erica Fumagalli, Vincenza Colonna, Anna Sandionigi, Martina Lari, Stefania Vai, Emmanuele Petiti, Giorgio Corti, Ermanno Rizzi, Gianluca De Bellis, David Caramelli, Guido Barbujani
Published: February 6, 2013DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0055519
____________________
Here are all the quotes with the word "South" in them
quote:
We could obtain amplifiable DNA from 14 Etruscan specimens. Four of them, from Tarquinia, were analyzed in 2004 but were still unpublished. Ten samples come from 18 initial bone samples (each represented by two fragments of the right tibia) from a 3rd century BC multiple burial in Casenovole, Southern Tuscany.
quote: Comparisons with 52 modern populations in the TUS and EUR datasets (listed in Table S2) show that 11 of these sequences are shared with at least one of 4,910 individuals from Western Eurasia and the Southern Mediterranean shore (Table S1).
quote: We obtained 18 bone samples (each represented by two fragments of the right tibia) from a multiple burial from Casenovole, Southern Tuscany, near Grosseto.
____________________
Quotes pertaining to origins forn the article xyyman is referring to:
quote:
Abstract
The Etruscan culture is documented in Etruria, Central Italy, from the 8th to the 1st century BC. For more than 2,000 years there has been disagreement on the Etruscans’ biological origins, whether local or in Anatolia. Genetic affinities with both Tuscan and Anatolian populations have been reported, but so far all attempts have failed to fit the Etruscans’ and modern populations in the same genealogy. We extracted and typed the hypervariable region of mitochondrial DNA of 14 individuals buried in two Etruscan necropoleis, analyzing them along with other Etruscan and Medieval samples, and 4,910 contemporary individuals from the Mediterranean basin. Comparing ancient (30 Etruscans, 27 Medieval individuals) and modern DNA sequences (370 Tuscans), with the results of millions of computer simulations, we show that the Etruscans can be considered ancestral, with a high degree of confidence, to the current inhabitants of Casentino and Volterra, but not to the general contemporary population of the former Etruscan homeland. By further considering two Anatolian samples (35 and 123 individuals) we could estimate that the genetic links between Tuscany and Anatolia date back to at least 5,000 years ago, strongly suggesting that the Etruscan culture developed locally, and not as an immediate consequence of immigration from the Eastern Mediterranean shores.
Tuscanny
Casentino and Volterra are located in the Tuscanny region
more quotes from the article
quote:
Only assuming very high mutation rates, at least twice as large as estimated in Henn et al. [13], was it possible to obtain separation times less than 5,000 years (Figure S7B). With both Anatolian samples, any degree of gene flow after separation between the ancestors of Tuscans and Anatolians resulted in more remote separation times
quote:
As for the Etruscans’ origins, ancient DNA is of little use, because pre-Etruscan dwellers of Central Italy, of the Villanovan culture, cremated their dead [1], and hence their genetic features are unknown. DNAs from modern humans and cattle in Tuscany show affinities with Near Eastern DNAs, which was interpreted as supporting Herodotus’ narrative [2], [6], but in these studies modern Tuscans were assumed to be descended from Etruscan ancestors, in contrast with ancient DNA evidence [5]. The claim that systematic errors in the Etruscan DNA sequences led to flawed genealogical inference [2], [7] is not supported by careful reanalysis of the data
quote: As also suggested by the analysis of skull diversity [26], contacts between people from the Eastern Mediterranean shores and Central Italy likely date back to a remote stage of prehistory, possibly to the spread of farmers from the Near East during the Neolithic period [27], [28], but not necessarily so (we only estimated a minimum separation time between gene pools). At any rate, these contacts occurred much earlier than, and hence appear unrelated with, the onset of the Etruscan culture (Figure 5). We conclude that no available genetic evidence suggests an Etruscan origin outside Italy. While their culture disappeared from the records, the Etruscans’ mtDNAs did not; traces of this heritage are still recognizable. However, most current inhabitants of the ancient Etruscan homeland appear descended from different ancestors along the female lines, as clearly shown by the analysis of the urban (Florence) sample. Genetic continuity since the Etruscan’s time is still evident only in relatively isolated localities, such as Casentino and Volterra.
_____________________
this is why when asked for an article title xyyman doesn't respond. He knows he's bullshytting and doesn't want to to have access to see for yourself.
Etruscan art>
Fresco in the "Tomb of the Shields," Tarquinia, 3rd century B.C.
Fresco in the "Tomb of the Shields," Tarquinia, 3rd century B.C.
^^^ these are people of the same ethnic group Men are depicted tanned, women fair.
-(assuming you want to believe white lies) in reality Italy at the time was a wonderous land where white women frolicked with the the Black Etruscan nobles. It was a magical time and extremely hot
Jeffery R. Hughey, Peristera Paschou, Petros Drineas, Donald Mastropaolo, Dimitra M. Lotakis, Patrick A. Navas, Manolis Michalodimitrakis, John A. Stamatoyannopoulos & George Stamatoyannopoulos
Nature Communications 4, Article number: 1861 doi:10.1038/ncomms2871 Received 31 December 2012 Accepted 12 April 2013 Published 14 May 2013
Abstract Abstract• Introduction• Results• Discussion• Methods• Additional Information• Accession codes• References• Acknowledgements• Author information• Supplementary information The first advanced Bronze Age civilization of Europe was established by the Minoans about 5,000 years before present. Since Sir Arthur Evans exposed the Minoan civic centre of Knossos, archaeologists have speculated on the origin of the founders of the civilization. Evans proposed a North African origin; Cycladic, Balkan, Anatolian and Middle Eastern origins have also been proposed. Here we address the question of the origin of the Minoans by analysing mitochondrial DNA from Minoan osseous remains from a cave ossuary in the Lassithi plateau of Crete dated 4,400–3,700 years before present. Shared haplotypes, principal component and pairwise distance analyses refute the Evans North African hypothesis. Minoans show the strongest relationships with Neolithic and modern European populations and with the modern inhabitants of the Lassithi plateau. Our data are compatible with the hypothesis of an autochthonous development of the Minoan civilization by the descendants of the Neolithic settlers of the island.
The Minoan mtDNA haplotypes resembled those of the European populations (Figs 2b, 3a and 4; Supplementary Figs S1–S3). The majority of Minoans were classified in haplogroups H (43.2%), T (18.9%), K (16.2%) and I (8.1%). Haplogroups U5A, W, J2, U, X and J were each identified in a single individual. The greatest percentage of shared Minoan haplotypes was observed with European populations, particularly with individuals from Northern and Western Europe (26.98% and 29.28%, respectively) (Figs 2, 3, 4; Supplementary Table S7). Notably, in Fig. 4, a gradient can be observed, with the lowest affinity for Minoans found with Northern African populations and the percentage of haplotype sharing increasing as we move through the Middle East, Caucasus and the Mediterranean islands, southern Europe and mainland Europe (Fig. 4a). Of notice also is the high percentage of haplotype sharing with Bronze Age (Fig. 4c) and Neolithic (Fig. 4d) European populations.
Our results strongly suggest that the principal matrilineal genetic relationships of the Minoans are with Neolithic, ancient and modern European populations. Such findings are in support of the hypothesis of an autochthonous origin of the Minoan civilization by the descendants of the Neolithic settlers of the island4, 13. As it has been proposed for the other Neolithic European populations21, 22, 23, the most likely origin of the Cretan Neolithic settlers was Anatolia and the Middle East4, 7, 9, 10, 11. Given that the timing of the first Neolithic inhabitants to reach Crete 9,000 YBP coincides with the migration of Neolithic farmers out of Anatolia3, it is highly probable that the same ancestral population that spread to Europe, also spread to Crete and contributed to the founding of the early Minoan civilization. It has been suggested24 that in addition to agricultural methods, the Anatolian farmers also brought with them the Indo-European language25, 26. The current prevailing hypothesis is that the Minoan language was unrelated to the Indo-European family. Alternatively, as suggested by Renfrew5, Proto-Minoan was one of the branches derived from the Proto-Indo-European language about 9,000 YBP.
The PCA analysis also highlights the high affinity of the Minoans to the current inhabitants of the Lassithi plateau as well as Greece. Among the top 10 nearest neighbours to our Minoan population sample, four are Greek populations and two of these from Lassithi prefecture (Fig. 5). The close relationship of the Minoans to modern Cretans is also apparent, when analysis is restricted to populations originating from Greece (Fig. 6b). Particularly in respect to the first PCA (capturing 92% of the variance of this particular subset of the data), the Minoans are extremely close to the modern Lassithi population, the populations from the islands of Chios and Euboea, as well as the populations of Argolis and Lakonia (Southern Greece ) (Fig. 6b). Thus, the modern inhabitants of the Lassithi plateau still carry the maternal genetic signatures of their ancient predecessors of the Minoan population.
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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That is right Lioness. There are some geneticist I like. Eg Babujani. See Dhoxie I do like some white people.
Likes and have some respect.for – Babujani, Henn(yes – I like the woman), Lazaridis, Haak, E. Fernandez, Kilvisild, Norton, Shriver are the popular ones.
Don’t like – Achilli, Torroni and the Greek brothers(Stamatoyannopoulos)
On the fence with – Perriera, Tishkoff( Although I give her props for her work in Africa)
Indifferent to Jablonski. She is hilarious with her hypotheses.
Despise Paabo – a double wammy. A fag and a racist. Ugh!!
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It is not really babble. It may seem that way. I have learned the MO of the European geneticists. Many don't outright lie. They twist their words to "lead" you to the truth. I guess it is battle within their psych. The innate nature to lie and the overwhelming truth of science. After all they are scientist first and not politicians. They battle that internal conflict to serve two masters. Lie or tell the truth by what the data says. The net result....,the truth is buried within their lies. I will break down the Etruscans when I have time.
I know these people...,..I know their MO.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman Oh! And to address the Romans. The LATEST DNA study also confirms the Etruscans came from the "south" and not from Anatolia. Babujani et al refused to use the words black Africa. He used the word "south". Now tell me what lies south of Estrustia besides the Sea ...and Africa. lol!
Greek...Romans...Africans [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: Lioness,
That study is typical Euro babble......
It doesnt say anything....
so, xyyman mentioned an article where one of the authors is named Babujani. You asked for the link and I put it up
all of the sudden it's Euro babble.
Let me sum up xyyman's position >
The Greeks and Romans are African Modern Egyptians are 80% African
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A good example of "doublespeak" is that new paper by Haak on the Steppe IndoEuropean language. On the surface it looks like he is saying the Indo-European people came from the Steppes. But buried within the Supplementals he made it clear that modern European males did NOT descend from the Steppe Yamanya!! Classic doublespeak. Now, did he lie in the paper? Definitely not. But he lead us on, and the Euronuts dream was fulfilled if they are stupid enough only to read the Abstract and not the Supplementals.
I know these people. I know their MO.
I work in the scientific field. I know the internal conflict they are battling. One of the biggest SIN and shameful acts is falsifying data. Their "work around " is skewing the sampling. Ie deliberately leaving out sample groups although it makes absolute sense to include the said group.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: A good example of "doublespeak" is that new paper by Haak on the Steppe IndoEuropean language. On the surface it looks like he is saying the Indo-European people came from the Steppes. But buried within the Supplementals he made it clear that modern European males did NOT descend from the Steppe Yamanya!! Classic doublespeak. Now, did he lie in the paper? Definitely not. But he lead us on, and the Euronuts dream was fulfilled if they are stupid enough only to read the Abstract and not the Supplementals.
I know these people. I know their MO.
I work on the scientific field. I know the internal conflict they are battling. One of the biggest SIN and shameful acts is falsifying data. Their "work around " is skewing the sampling. Ie deliberately leaving out sample groups although it makes absolute sense to include the said group.
xyyman's latest theory is that while modern European females may have come from the Yamanya steppe culture (by the way not located in Central Asia but located in the European side of Russia) he thinks modern European males are descendants of North Africans, that caucasians originate in North Africa
From another recent article:
^^^ As we can see Haplogroup U domiates the Pre-Neolithic at 74%
And in another article the breakdown of Haplogroup U>
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: A good example of "doublespeak" is that new paper by Haak on the Steppe IndoEuropean language. On the surface it looks like he is saying the Indo-European people came from the Steppes. But buried within the Supplementals he made it clear that modern European males did NOT descend from the Steppe Yamanya!! Classic doublespeak. Now, did he lie in the paper? Definitely not. But he lead us on, and the Euronuts dream was fulfilled if they are stupid enough only to read the Abstract and not the Supplementals.
I know these people. I know their MO.
I work in the scientific field. I know the internal conflict they are battling. One of the biggest SIN and shameful acts is falsifying data. Their "work around " is skewing the sampling. Ie deliberately leaving out sample groups although it makes absolute sense to include the said group.
So of the 3 ancestral populations, do you think the Yamanana are related to the Siberian Asiatics? If so won't that make Europeans a hybrid, part Asian race, as Cavalli-Sforza found back in 97?
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@Lioness, there you go. What is up with you white males and your obsession with lying ?. I always contend MTDNA hg-H is of African origin. See all my discussion on R. Kefi. smh.
The modern white European male origins is still needs to be resolved.
I will repeat here again , "Europeans are a subset of Africans". Depigmented ones
The unfortunate thing is, my gut is telling R1b1a2-M269 also has a recent African origin.
Why? The geographic pattern of this Haplogroup in Europe, it's sibling R1a and the pattern of the upstream clade on the African coasts and Sardinia .
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@Z. We now know Sforza had the proportions wrong.
It more like 75% African and 25% "non-African"!!!! Lazaridis et al. Rosenberg et al IIRC Sforza used protein markers over 20ya!!!
We now use more accurate techniques like AIM/SNP.
What many don't realize in the Yamanya study they are only dissecting the 25%, The 75% is a done deal!! The argument is over the remaining 25%. Which is essentially ANE (Asiatic) and WHG.
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @Lioness, there you go. What is up with you white males and your obsession with lying ?. I always contend MTDNA hg-H is of African origin. See all my discussion on R. Kefi. smh.
The modern white European male origins is still needs to be resolved.
I will repeat here again , "Europeans are a subset of Africans". Depigmented ones
The unfortunate thing is, my gut is telling R1b1a2-M269 also has a recent African origin.
Why? The geographic pattern of this Haplogroup in Europe, it's sibling R1a and the pattern of the upstream clade on the African coasts and Sardinia .
quote me where I'm lying
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The end game is to confirm Greek presence in Egypt.
Central Asians , I mean, Europeans lie!!!!
I 2nd guess anything written by Europeans especially in "their" history books. Science don't lie....it can be twisted or misread.
^So you are retracting this?
Now you are saying Europeans are 75% African and only 25% Central Asian
(also keep in mind the Yamna culture is not Central Asia, not in the various countries ending in "stan" but is in the European side of Russia)
So if Europeans are 75% African then they are potentially highly related to the ancient Egyptians, this is what you are leading up to
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posted
Come on Lioness- what you are doing is childs play to me. I am waaaay ahead of you.
ALL HUMANS ARE RELATED. So yes, just as Native Americans are related to AEians, Europaans are related to AEians also. Lol!. You do know Berbers are not really related to AEians compared to West Africans. SMH
I repeat. The end game is to filter modern European presence IN Egypt which so many brothas keep repeating. Greek and Roman presence IN Egypt. I haven’t seen ANY study showing European presence IN Egypt. ANY!!!
There is only two explanation for that
1. The early Greeks and Romans were also Black late neolithic Africans carrying E1b1* like what Angel, Sergi, Coon, Evans, xyyman, etc suggested. 2. The presence of “European” Greeks IN Egypt is overstated or exxagerated. Thus there is no trace of them IN modern Egypt
As Isaid I came across ONLY one genetic study on ancient Greeks but it was not publicly released. They probably did not like the results. One was done by the Greek Brothers above on the Nuragic. The results show that the Nuragic shared UNIQUE haplotypes ONLY with North Africans
The closest EXTERNAL influence of modern Egytians are the Ottoman Turks. Who also replaced the indigenous population of the Levant.
Bring it!
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Keep in mind. I was also surprised by the result the Armanas were NOT closely related to the Berbers but later on when I found out the ages of these lineages it all made sense. E1b1b* although African is close to 12000y!!!!! Older than its sibling E1b1a. By the early Holocene before the FORMATION of the AEian nation state the Berbers were already occupying the Sahara and migrating outwards. The SSA line E1b1a (age of about 6000y) being younger played a part in the formation of the AEian nation state.
However all are Africans
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Maybe someone can help me out here. The idea came to mind in that thread on ”foreign ancestry in modern Egyptians”.
DJ (the ahem) made statement but as usual cannot back it up. So…I could not find any study.
What is the percentage of EUROPEAN ancestry in modern Egypt. A lot of posters repeatedly state that Egyptians were infiltrated by Greeks, Romans, Persian etc. We got the Ottoman Turks out of the way.
So …are there any studies isolating “Romans” and “Greeks” IN Egypt. Notabley along the male lines. Since female hg-H is resolved.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: A good example of "doublespeak" is that new paper by Haak on the Steppe IndoEuropean language. On the surface it looks like he is saying the Indo-European people came from the Steppes. But buried within the Supplementals he made it clear that modern European males did NOT descend from the Steppe Yamanya!! Classic doublespeak. Now, did he lie in the paper? Definitely not. But he lead us on, and the Euronuts dream was fulfilled if they are stupid enough only to read the Abstract and not the Supplementals.
I know these people. I know their MO.
I work on the scientific field. I know the internal conflict they are battling. One of the biggest SIN and shameful acts is falsifying data. Their "work around " is skewing the sampling. Ie deliberately leaving out sample groups although it makes absolute sense to include the said group.
xyyman's latest theory is that while modern European females may have come from the Yamanya steppe culture (by the way not located in Central Asia but located in the European side of Russia) he thinks modern European males are descendants of North Africans, that caucasians originate in North Africa
From another recent article:
^^^ As we can see Haplogroup U domiates the Pre-Neolithic at 74%
And in another article the breakdown of Haplogroup U>
quote: This suggests a remarkable genetic uniformity and little phylogeographic structure over a large geographic area of the pre-Neolithic populations. Using Approximate Bayesian Computation, a model of genetic continuity from Mesolithic to Neolithic populations is poorly supported. Furthermore, analyses of 1.34% and 0.53% of their nuclear genomes, containing about 50,000 and 20,000 ancestry informative SNPs, respectively, show that these two Mesolithic individuals are not related to current populations from either the Iberian Peninsula or Southern Europe.
[...]
Indicate that La Bran ̃ a specimens (Figure 1) belong to the U5b haplotype (16192T-16270T).
Figure 2 - Ancestral variants around the SLC45A2 (rs16891982, above) and SLC24A5 (rs1426654,below) pigmentation genes in the Mesolithic genome. The SNPs around the two diagnostic variants (red arrows) in these two genes were analysed. The resulting haplotype comprises neighbouring SNPs that are also absent in modern Europeans (CEU) (n5=112) but present in Yorubans (YRI) (n5=113).
This pattern confirms that the La Brana 1 sample is older than the positive-selection event in these regions. Blue, ancestral; red, derived.
--Carles Lalueza-Fox et al.
Current Biology, 28 June 2012 doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2012.06.005
Genomic Affinities of Two 7,000-Year-Old Iberian Hunter-Gatherers
quote:Lalueza-Fox states: "However, the biggest surprise was to discover that this individual possessed African versions in the genes that determine the light pigmentation of the current Europeans, which indicates that he had dark skin, although we can not know the exact shade."
Haplogroup L1b roots deeply in the human mtDNA phylogeny and has the characteristic motif 16126, 16187, 16189, 16223, 16264, 16270, 116278, 16311. We have collected sequences from the literature that fall into this cluster. From these sequences we have built a median-joining network by specifying the transversion at np 16114 and the deletion at np 16166 (Rando et al. 1998). The populations are scattered over the network; six nodes are shared between sub-Saharan and northwest African populations. The structure of the network can roughly be described as a double star with one of the centers being the ancestral haplotype. These nodes are separated at np 16293 (transition), testifying to an expansion event that involved both central sequence types. The age of this expansion is calculated as 16,000 years.
[...]
There were eight different haplotypes, and all were unique. Most of these haplotypes are phylogenetically divergent, indicating unrelated introduction to Tunisian populations from western or eastern sub-Saharan populations. Indeed, taking into account the Tunisian sequences belonging to haplogroup L2a from Sejnane, Zriba, Kesra, Matmata, Sned, and Chenini-Douiret, we obtain a divergence age of about 28,000 ± 8,900 years, which is the same age calculated for this haplogroup including all the described sequences. However, we noticed two pairs of related haplotypes in the Kesra population, where we detected a local evolution of the L2a cluster, suggesting that this haplogroup could have been introduced earlier in Kesra.
The dates for subhaplogroups H1 and H3 (13,000 and 10,000 years, respectively) in Iberian and North African populations allow for this possibility. Kefi et al.’s (2005) data on ancient DNA could be viewed as being in agreement with such a presence in North Africa in ancient times (about 15,000–6,000 years ago) and with the fact that the North African populations are considered by most scholars as having their closest relations with European and Asian populations (Cherni et al. 2008; Ennafaa et al. 2009; Kefi et al. 2005; Rando et al. 1998). However, considering the general understanding nowadays that human settlement of the rest of the world emerged from eastern northern Africa less than 50,000 years ago, a better explanation of these haplogroups might be that their frequencies reflect the original modern human population of these parts of Africa as much as or more than intrusions from outside the continent. The ways that gene frequencies may increase or decrease based on adaptive selection, gene flow, and/or social processes is under study and would benefit from the results of studies on autosomal and Y-chromosome markers.
--Frigi et al., 2010
quote:The Mesolithic–Neolithic transition in southern Iberia
Resumen: New data and a review of historiographic information from Neolithic sites of the Malaga and Algarve coasts (southern Iberian Peninsula) and from the Maghreb (North Africa) reveal the existence of a Neolithic settlement at least from 7.5 cal ka BP. The agricultural and pastoralist food producing economy of that population rapidly replaced the coastal economies of the Mesolithic populations. The timing of this population and economic turnover coincided withmajor changes in the continental and marine ecosystems, including upwelling intensity, sea-level changes and increased aridity in the Sahara and along the Iberian coast. These changes likely impacted the subsistence strategies of the Mesolithic populations along the Iberian seascapes and resulted in abandonments manifested as sedimentary hiatuses in some areas during the Mesolithic–Neolithic transition. The rapid expansion and area of dispersal of the early Neolithic traits suggest the use of marine technology. Different evidences for a Maghrebian origin for the first colonists have been summarized.
The recognition of an early North-African Neolithic influence in Southern Iberia and the Maghreb is vital for understanding the appearance and development of the Neolithic in Western Europe. Our review suggests links between climate change, resource allocation, and population turnover.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: people ignore Troll Patrol, he's gotten emotional and he's in full spam mode posting random charts and quotes which don't answer xyyman's question>>
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: where is your scientific evidence modern Egytptians are heavily admixed with Europeans ?
LOL @ the euronut straw man arguments. As soon as it became appearent that the lineage arose from inner Africa, sub Sahara, this hideous liar retreated and started to call it spam. Well, ... your typical racist euronut behavior got locked into my trap!
And posting this, will not help you either:
quote:This is more focussed on the Egyptians around Luxor, where old upper Egypt was located. A recent DNA study by Cruciani that focused on the Y chromosome E-M78 revealed that it was ‘born’ in North East Africa , not East Africa as previously thought. This means, that an Egyptian with an m78 Y chromosome has had a male line ancestry reaching back to the Pleistocene inhabitants of Egypt; as far back as the Halfan culture about 24,000 years ago.
quote:
Archeological and paleontological evidences point to East Africa as the likely area of early evolution of modern humans. Genetic studies also indicate that populations from the region often contain, but not exclusively, representatives of the more basal clades of mitochondrial and Y-chromosome phylogenies. Most Y-chromosome haplogroup diversity in Africa, however, is present within macrohaplogroup E that seem to have appeared 21 000–32 000 YBP somewhere between the Red Sea and Lake Chad. The combined analysis of 17 bi-allelic markers in 1214 Y chromosomes together with cultural background of 49 populations displayed in various metrics: network, multidimensional scaling, principal component analysis and neighbor-joining plots, indicate a major contribution of East African populations to the foundation of the macrohaplogroup, suggesting a diversification that predates the appearance of some cultural traits and the subsequent expansion that is more associated with the cultural and linguistic diversity witnessed today. The proto-Afro-Asiatic group carrying the E-P2 mutation may have appeared at this point in time and subsequently gave rise to the different major population groups including current speakers of the Afro-Asiatic languages and pastoralist populations.
[...]
Y-chromosome haplogroup tree
The Y-chromosome haplogroup tree has been constructed manually following YCC 2008 nomenclature20 with some modifications.35 The tree (Supplementary Figure S1) contains the E haplogroups of Eritrean populations from this study and those reported in the literature.22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 Genotyping results for E-V13, E-V12, E-V22 and E-V32 reported for Eritrean samples and elsewhere23, 27 were retracted to E-M78 haplogroup level. All the analyses in this study were done at the same resolution using the following 17 bi-allelic markers: E-M96, E-M33, E-P2, E-M2, E-M58, E-M191, E-M154, E-M329, E-M215, E-M35, E-M78, E-M81, E-M123, E-M34, E-V6, E-V16/E-M281 and E-M75.
[...]
Median-joining (MJ) network. Network manipulated to fit the geography of the extant populations. MJ network was constructed using E haplogroup frequencies. Group represented by ITAL contains all the Italian samples pooled. Populations’ descriptions are given in Supplementary Table S1.
NJ tree based on FST values generated from Arlequin 3.11. Population names are as given in Supplementary Table S1. Population life style: circle – agriculturalists; square – pastoralists; triangle – nomads; inverted triangle – nomadic pastoralists; diamond – agro-pastoralists. The populations are colored according to their language family: red – Afro-asiatic; blue – Nilo-Saharan; green – Niger-Kordofanian; yellow – Khoisan; black – Italic and Basque.
[...]
Interestingly, this ancestral cluster includes populations like Fulani who has previously shown to display Eastern African ancestry, common history with the Hausa who are the furthest Afro-Asiatic speakers to the west in the Sahel, with a large effective size and complex genetic background.23 The Fulani who currently speak a language classified as Niger-Kordofanian may have lost their original tongue to as sociated sedentary group similar to other cattle herders in Africa a common tendency among pastoralists. Clearly cultural trends exemplified by populations, like Hausa or Massalit, the latter who have neither strong tradition in agriculture nor animal husbandry, were established subsequent to the initial differentiation of haplogroup E. For example, the early clusters within the network also include Nilo-Saharan speakers like Kunama of Eritrea and Nilotic of Sudan who are ardent nomadic pastoralists but speak a language of non-Afro-Asiatic background the predominant linguistic family within the macrohaplogroup.
[...]
The Sahel, which extends between the Atlantic coast of Africa and the Red Sea plateau, represents one of the least sampled areas and populations in the domain of human genetics. The position of Eritrea adjacent to the Red Sea coast provides opportunities for insights regarding human migrations within and beyond the African landscape.
[...]
The subclades of the network some of which are associated with the practice of pastoralism are most likely to have taken place in the Sahara, among an early population that spoke ancestral language common to both Nilo-Saharan and Afro-Asiatic speakers, although it is yet to be determined whether pastoralism was an original culture to Nilo-Saharan speakers, a cultural acquisition or vice versa; and an interesting notion to entertain in the light of the proposition that pastoralism may be quite an antiquated event in human history.17 Pushing the dates of the event associated with the origin and spread of pastoralism to a proposed 12 000–22 000 YBP, as suggested by the network dating, will solve the matter spontaneously as the language differences would not have appeared by then and an original pastoralist ancestral group with a common culture and language50 is a plausible scenario to entertain. Such dates will accommodate both the Semitic/pastoralism-associated expansion and the introduction of Bos taurus to Europe from North East Africa or Middle East.55 The network result put North African populations like the Saharawi, Morocco Berbers and Arabs in a separate cluster. Given the proposed origin of Maghreb ancestors56, 57, 58, 59 in North Africa, our network dating suggested a divergence of North Western African populations from Eastern African as early as 32 000 YBP, which is close to the estimated dates to the origin of E-P2 macrohaplogroup.30, 60 It can be further inferred that the high frequency of E-M81 in North Africa and its association to the Berber-speaking populations25, 30, 32, 60, 61 may have occurred after the splitting of that early group, leading to local differentiation and flow of some markers as far as Southern Europe.30, 60, 62
--Eyoab I Gebremeskel1,2 and Muntaser E Ibrahim1
European Journal of Human Genetics (2014) 22, 1387–1392; doi:10.1038/ejhg.2014.41; published online 26 March 2014
Y-chromosome E haplogroups: their distribution and implication to the origin of Afro-Asiatic languages and pastoralism EJHGOpen
quote: E-M78 subclades
The distribution of E-M78 subclades among Sudanese is shown in Table 2. Only two chromosomes fell under the paragroup E-M78*. E-V65 and E-V13 were completely absent in the samples analyzed, whereas the other subclades were relatively common. E-V12* accounts for 19.3% and is widely distributed among Su- danese. E-V32 (51.8%) is by far the most common sub-clades among Sudanese. It has the highest frequency among populations of western Sudan and Beja. E-V22 accounts for 27.2% and its highest frequency appears to be among Fulani, but it is also common in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups.
[...]
The Fulani, who possess the lowest population size in this study, have an interesting genetic structure, effectively consisting of two haplogroups or founding lineages. One of the lineages is R-M173 (53.8%), and its sheer frequency suggests either a recent migration of this group to Africa and/or a restricted gene flow due to linguistic or cultural barriers. The high frequency of sub-clade E-V22, which is believed to be northeast African (Cruciani et al., 2007) and haplogroup R-M173, suggests an amalgamation of two populations/cultures that took place sometime in the past in eastern or central Africa. This is also evident from the frequency of the ‘‘T’’ allele of the lactase persistence gene that is uniquely present in considerable frequencies among the Fulani (Mulcare et al., 2004). Interestingly, Fulani language is classified in the Niger-Congo family of languages, which is more prevalent in West Africa and among Bantu speakers, yet their Y-chromosomes show very little evidence of West African genetic affiliation.
It seems, however, that the effective size of the pastorlists and nomadic pastoralists is generally much smaller than groups of sedentary agriculturalists life style. This is intriguing in the sense that one would expect nomadic tribes to be more able to admix, spread, and receive genes than their sedentary counterparts.
--Hisham Y. Hassan, Peter A. Underhill, Luca L. Cavalli-Sforza, and Muntaser E. Ibrahim
Y-Chromosome Variation Among Sudanese: Restricted Gene Flow, Concordance With Language, Geography, and History
Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Europeans are depigmented Africans. Forget what you have READ over the last 200years people
==== $35!! Would like to get my hands on it...
The Mesolithic–Neolithic transition in southern Iberia!!!!!
Quote:
The rapid expansion and area of dispersal of the early Neolithic traits suggest the use of marine technology. Different evidences for a Maghrebian ORIGIN for the FIRST colonists have been summarized.
The recognition of an early North-African Neolithic influence in Southern Iberia and the Maghreb is vital for understanding the appearance and development of the Neolithic in Western Europe. Our review suggests links between climate change, resource allocation, and population turnover.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Europeans are depigmented Africans. Forget what you have READ over the last 200years people
==== $35!! Would like to get my hands on it...
The Mesolithic–Neolithic transition in southern Iberia!!!!!
Quote:
The rapid expansion and area of dispersal of the early Neolithic traits suggest the use of marine technology. Different evidences for a Maghrebian ORIGIN for the FIRST colonists have been summarized.
The recognition of an early North-African Neolithic influence in Southern Iberia and the Maghreb is vital for understanding the appearance and development of the Neolithic in Western Europe. Our review suggests links between climate change, resource allocation, and population turnover.
^ Consinged! Btw, you've got mail.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The end game is to confirm Greek presence in Egypt.
Central Asians , I mean, Europeans lie!!!!
I 2nd guess anything written by Europeans especially in "their" history books. Science don't lie....it can be twisted or misread.
^So you are retracting this?
Now you are saying Europeans are 75% African and only 25% Central Asian
(also keep in mind the Yamna culture is not Central Asia, not in the various countries ending in "stan" but is in the European side of Russia)
So if Europeans are 75% African then they are potentially highly related to the ancient Egyptians, this is what you are leading up to
Again, Northeast Africa ("Egypt") was just one hub for out migratting populations. Egypt as a state or civilization didn't exists. But the gene-pool asrose at the sub Sahara. As was shown already a few times before. Ignorant nitwit.
And it appears you have a sever reading disability. He is saying, according to Lazaridis et al. Rosenberg et al It more like 75% African and 25% "non-African"!!!!
This Egypt thing is really getting to you and your white white supremacy theories, it is geting depressed. "Egypt was use" LOL SMH
Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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, I mean, Europeans lie!!!!
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