quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: I love Black people and respect Black Jews
but I don't respect hate cults and racists
.
but this thread is not about me or what I believe
it's a thread attacking other peoples religion
Why? Because the thread starter is in his feelings about being called a wannabe Jew and the person who said this is not even a Jew or white
So that was just a fake excuse
He thinks if he can prove other people "fake" that makes him real Thats a logical fallacy, it's not connected
I have seen no thread by Tazarah that even makes the case why he thinks he's an Israelite. It's because he's not confident in that. He thinks if he can prove other people not "Israelites" he is one but it doesn't work like that
Lioness YOU are in the cult of white supremacy and scientific racism. Which makes you a RACIST
WHITE SUPREMACY IS A CULT that affects, how history, DNA, archaeology, is studied and reported.
The effects of this current iteration of Eugenics is trying to make it seam that West Africans are a separate species from the reset of Humanity.
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2731 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa Bey: Lioness YOU are in the cult of white supremacy and scientific racism. Which makes you a RACIST
this thread is not about me or what I believe
and you are a liar
it's a thread attacking Ashkenazi Jews
Why? Because the thread starter is in his feelings about being called a wannabe Jew and the person who said this was not not me nor a Jew nor white
this is an ongoing habit of theses religious hate fanatics and their revisionist pseudo history
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: I love how bold he (Elhaik) is when it comes to calling out the ashkenazi about their frivolous claims to be descendants of Israel
wait, Tazarah said this in December? He's been on this track before anyone called him a wannabe Jew, so the victim excuse is bullshit > he is the one starting in with the wannabe accusations
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^ Lioness, the guy is reeling in pain from the following:
The Genetic History of the Israelite Nation A surprising percentage of men across Judaism who claim to belong to the Levitical priesthood (the Cohanim) share a common Y chromosome within a subgroup of haplogroup J. This is despite the fact that they have been separated in some cases for approximately 2,500 years. This Y chromosome type has been named the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH), and men who carry it are more closely related to each other than they are to the other Jews in the communities in which they live. The CMH is rare in non-Levitical Jews, is found in 50% of Levites, and occurs in a much higher proportion of the Cohanim.14 Hammer et al. (2009) discovered that the Cohanim carry many different Y chromosome types, but most are at low frequencies.
Extended Y chromosome haplotypes resolve multiple and unique lineages of the Jewish priesthood In sum, the high frequency of a closely related set of J-P58* chromosomes among Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Cohanim that share a common modal haplotype, and that are estimated to have diverged from a common ancestor >2,000 years ago, is consistent with the hypothesis that the J-P58* lineage traces the Cohanim dynasty to a time before the Jewish diaspora. While the frequency of the J-P58* lineage is higher among Ashkenazi Jews (Fig. 2a), Y-STR variation associated with this haplogroup is older in the non-Ashkenazi community (e.g., we obtained divergence time estimates of 4.6 ± 1.8 and 3.5 ± 2.1 kyears for the 17- and 9-locus datasets, respectively). In this regard, it is also worth noting that the J-P58* network topology suggests population expansion, especially within the Ashkenazim. This may be attributable to the strong founder effect previously suggested for the Ashkenazi population (Behar et al. 2004, 2006).
Origin and diffusion of human Y chromosome haplogroup J1-M267 The Cohen-specific lineage of haplogroup J1-M267 was first described as a Cohen-specific STR haplotype38, called “the Cohen modal haplotype”. It was rejected at first and then confirmed by an extended STR repertoire. This later study reports that 46.1% of all Cohens fall within this lineage. Subsequently, a Cohen-specific branch was also found in the phylogenetic tree of haplogroup J1-M26729. Here, we confirm this Cohen-specific branch in haplogroup J1-M267 as J1a1a1a1a1a1a2-B877 (Fig. 2, Supplementary Fig. S1). All Jewish lineages of haplogroup J1-M267 fall into the J1a1a1-P58 branch (Supplementary Fig. S1), which suggests their origin ultimately in the Levant. It is surprising to find two Jewish or close to Jewish J1a1a1-P58 lineages in the ancient Roman samples (~ 1.5–2.0 kya). This tells us about the migration of the Jewish people, at least of the bearers of the J1a1a1-P58 chromosomes, who travelled from the Levant to Europe via Italy, consistent with an earlier research.
The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East Abstract A sample of 526 Y chromosomes representing six Middle Eastern populations (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Kurdish Jews from Israel; Muslim Kurds; Muslim Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Authority Area; and Bedouin from the Negev) was analyzed for 13 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly, yet significantly, from Ashkenazi Jews. The differences among Ashkenazim may be a result of low-level gene flow from European populations and/or genetic drift during isolation. Admixture between Kurdish Jews and their former Muslim host population in Kurdistan appeared to be negligible. In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors. The two haplogroups Eu 9 (J2) and Eu 10 (J* or J1) constitute a major part of the Y chromosome pool in the analyzed sample. *Our data suggest that Eu 9 originated in the northern part, and Eu 10 in the southern part of the Fertile Crescent. Genetic dating yielded estimates of the expansion of both haplogroups that cover the Neolithic period in the region.* Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin differed from the other Middle Eastern populations studied here, mainly in specific high-frequency Eu 10 haplotypes not found in the non-Arab groups. These chromosomes might have been introduced through migrations from the Arabian Peninsula during the last two millennia. The present study contributes to the elucidation of the complex demographic history that shaped the present-day genetic landscape in the region.Posts: 26466 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tazarah
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^ Any of you guys willing to address the OP?
Imagine clinging to the most notorious troll on this website to try saving face. "Lioness" is an old racist white man pretending to be a black woman, and he only gets mad when he believes white Jewish people are being "attacked".
He hates black people, especially black Jews -- that has been 200% demonstrated in this thread.
Of course you won't address the OP directly because you know it throws everything you've been spewing into question.
quote:"One thing is clear: the CMH cannot definitively prove the existence of a single founding father for the Jewish priesthood, let alone confirm that he was Aaron. If it is primarily a marker of priestly inheritance, why would it show up on two J lineages—most commonly on J1 but also on J2 -- that split thousands of years, maybe more than ten thousand years, before the time of Aaron? Moreover, some Jews with an oral history of being a Cohanim and no known record of conversion have neither a J1 nor J2 lineage. They are from the haplogroup E3b, which has Middle Eastern origins, or from Rlb, which is common among Europeans and some Turks. How could that be?"
"Abraham's Children: Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People" by Jon Entine, page 70-71
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Tazarah
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Djehuti the evolutionist is now referencing CREATIONIST websites to try supporting his ideas. ROFL Posts: 2631 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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You must think it's racist to question false historical claims but we question everything here. This is a science oriented site, not where everybody looks the other way while religious people post propaganda
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Tazarah
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"Anybody"
But it's not intended for djehuti right?
Practice what you preach and call him out for trying to "exclude haplogroups" as you would say.
Thus far, you are racist -- especially towards black people and black people who identify as Jews.
And I'm not the only one who has pointed this out.
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Djehuti the evolutionist is now referencing CREATIONIST websites to try supporting his ideas. ROFL
All you do is lie and make straw dolls.
When did I ever state I was an "evolutionist"??! In fact I already told you in another thread I wasn't, yet you repeat this lie. Is it because I don't hold the same idiotic views on the bible as you?? Just because I don't share the same imbecilic views and interpretations does not mean I'm not a bible believer, which I am!
You call yourself a "Hebrew Israelite" yet you don't even know the Torah in it's original Hebrew meaning let alone context, hence the dumb backwards views. LOL
Now you keep lying about not having any evidence about Abraham's Y lineage when we have Cohanim from different minhag of Jewry including Lemba of Southern Africa, and your only complaint is that we still have no conclusive proof from ancient kohen or Levite remains.
This is why nobody takes you serious. You are a low IQ person (black or not) which is why I'm not surprised your a BHI as most dumb cults require dumb members. What tribe are you? LOLPosts: 26466 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You must think it's racist to question false historical claims but we question everything here. This is a science oriented site, not where everybody looks the other way while religious people post propaganda
Don't be surprised if scientists in Israel do finally test the remains of Kohanim or Levites and the idiot Taz will then claim the results are erroneous or fabricated! LOL He is nothing but a cornered rat hallucinating he has a chance at victory.
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: "Is it because I don't hold the same idiotic views on the bible as you??
The creationist website that YOU just referenced agrees that the Biblical flood was global, and that a "local flood" theory is not in agreement with what the Bible says (as I have repeatedly told and showed you).
You're probably too dense to even realize what this means for your haplogroup J fantasy, and how your own source just debunked you.
It's impossible for Noah to have had a haplogroup like J, which did not come into existence until after other haplogroups. Noah would have logically had a haplogroup older than J.
Furthermore, genetic methodology follows an evolutionary timeline (I'm surprised you didn't know this...) so by placing genetics over the Bible, you are essentially promoting evolution.
You don't have to admit to being an evolutionist because your arguments demonstrate that you are.
Furthermore #2, you still have not even attempted to address the actual OP of this post.
/fail
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Tazarah
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@"Lioness"
Djehuti is trying to exclude haplogroup E from Abraham's lineage.
What you gonna do? You gonna say anything to him?
Or is it ok to you when non-black people try to exclude Y markers linked to black people?
It only matters when you think white people are being exluded right?
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quote:You don't have to admit to being an evolutionist because your arguments demonstrate that you are.
I can't speak for DJ, but you should know that evolution is a real phenomenon. We can observe it for ourselves in laboratory settings. I know some theists argue that God or some other supernatural entity was what created life or the Universe in the first place, and that's frankly a different topic altogether. But you can't deny that, once life got started, it's been evolving for a long, long time.
It's impossible for Noah to have had a haplogroup like J
Haplogroup J is around 43,000 years old. Biblically, far before the flood
The oldest haplogroups are haplogroup A, 270,000 years old and haplogroup B is around 100,000 years old
Haplogroup E is 65,200 to 73,000 years old
So would we say, he could not have been E because A , B are much older? No, same problem with your "impossible" claim on J (no logic). These all started before the flood (if we are to believe Noah existed) Noah was not the first man so if he was real, he could have been J or another haplogroup like Elhaik said for the Israelites because J is much older than he was > he does not have to be A, similarly E
don't tell me about Djehuti, I'm not his keeper, that's a gimmick you keep using What I say or don't say to him has nothing to do with your wrongness, stop the diversions, the Most High is watching. It's not me fault you thought Djehuti never comes to the Kemet forum so you could hide here
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:You don't have to admit to being an evolutionist because your arguments demonstrate that you are.
I can't speak for DJ, but you should know that evolution is a real phenomenon. We can observe it for ourselves in laboratory settings. I know some theists argue that God or some other supernatural entity was what created life or the Universe in the first place, and that's frankly a different topic altogether. But you can't deny that, once life got started, it's been evolving for a long, long time.
Uh I was clearly talking about macro-evolution.
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So would we say, he could not have been E because A , B are much older? No, same problem with your "impossible" claim on J (no logic). These all started before the flood (if we are to believe Noah existed) Noah was not the first man so if he was real could have been J or another haplogroup like Elhaik said for the Israelites because J is much older than he was > he does not have to be A, similarly E
don't tell me about Djehuti, I'm not his keeper, that's a gimmick you keep using What I say or don't say to him has nothing to do with your wrongness, stop the diversions, the Most High is watching. It's not me fault you thought Djehuti never comes to the Kemet forum so you could hide here
Dr. Elhaik's research brought him to the conclusion Abraham was an E carrier so stop referencing him as if you are actually making a point.
But clearly you and djehuti know more than Dr. Elhaik. Bahaha
If we go by what the Bible says then no haplogroups that predate the flood should be in existence and that pretty much throws all genetic arguments out the window (I've said this before).
And thank you for demonstrating in real time that you have no problem with people attempting to exclude black people from Abraham/Hebrews/The Levant -- you only start to cry and do your trolling nonsense whenever you believe white people are being challenged -- because you yourself are a racist white man who has been masquerading as a black woman for over a decade.
It's not "exlcusion" that you dislike -- it's people who challenge white supremacy that you dislike.
And nobody is afraid of djehuti -- I posted this here so I don't have to worry about getting threatened with bans.
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And thank you for demonstrating in real time that you have no problem with people attempting to exclude black people from Abraham/Hebrews/The Levant
If you are saying that about Djehuti you will have to produce a quote of him, otherwise it's false accusation
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Tazarah
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Yup and this is the part where you play dumb and pretend to be unaware of how djehuti is basically promoting the same argument as myself, just with a different Y marker.
So djehuti is essentially excluding all other Y markers from being descendants of Abraham, in favor of J.
You claim to be against exclusion yet have nothing to say about it, because you are a lying hypocrite who only antagonizes black people.
Have a nice day, back to ignoring you now
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If we go by what the Bible says then no haplogroups that predate the flood should be in existence and that pretty much throws all genetic arguments out the window (I've said this before).
That's good logical reason for you not to believe that many things in bible are literally true.
However you can explain anything but just saying God miraculously did it. He created humans and animals instantly, created new languages at Babel instantly, creates haplogroups whenever he feels like. Are you doubting the abilities of the Most High?
what we do know is that these biological markers can be observed in the DNA with a microscope.
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Yup and this is the part where you play dumb and pretend to be unaware of how djehuti is basically promoting the same argument as myself, just with a different Y marker.
So djehuti is essentially excluding all other Y markers from being descendants of Abraham, in favor of J.
You claim to be against exclusion yet have nothing to say about it, because you are a lying hypocrite who only antagonizes black people.
Have a nice day, back to ignoring you now
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Yup and this is the part where you play dumb and pretend to be unaware of how djehuti is basically promoting the same argument as myself, just with a different Y marker.
So djehuti is essentially excluding all other Y markers from being descendants of Abraham, in favor of J.
You claim to be against exclusion yet have nothing to say about it, because you are a lying hypocrite who only antagonizes black people.
Have a nice day, back to ignoring you now
You're making threads about Ashkenazi. He's not making threads about Hebrew Israelites People are reacting to you
I made a thread about the history of black Hebrew Israelites which was a fair presentation of the history in America, not an attack thread like you do
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^ Yeah and when I make threads about black Jews you completely derail them and troll them into the ground. Now you're trying to present yourself as some sort of angel. Everyone with a brain knows that you do not like black people.
Then I make one thread about ashkenazi DNA and you lose your damn mind. I never make posts about Jewish people, all my posts are always about black Jews.
So f*ck out of here with that BS you damn devil. We all see through you, I have screenshots of literally everyone calling out your madness. Even the ones who try to act like they like you when they are coming against me.
"Hebrew Israelites" are not a monolith so the fact that you think the thread you made is an accurate representation of the Israelite spectrum just shows how completely ignorant you are.
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Tazarah thinks if he posts things like this someone is racist to question it
He comes to website, Egyptsearch where people post genetics articles and spend page after page scrutinizing the articles yet anyone who questions these claims is an anti-black racist Yet no geneticist on the planet says says Igbo men originated in the Levant
And why isn't it anti-black to deny the African roots of Igbo men?
This is the delusional state Tazarah is in
In my opinion if Igbos say they are Jews and they follow the bible and practice Jewish customs and law then they are Jews and ancestry doesn't matter but to say Igbo men originated in the Levant is flat out lying This particular self-appointed rabbinical court has no oversight and is lying, probably thinking they are doing good by doing so
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Uh I was clearly talking about macro-evolution.
Yes, and where did I say I believe in macro-evolution??
You say "my arguments demonstrate" that I am. But where in my arguments did I say anything about evolution at all, micro or macro, when the argument is about Y genetic lineage??!! LOL
You are a pathetic liar who has to resort to the stupidest straw dolls and lies when you know you are losing.
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Dr. Eran Elhaik talks about how tens of thousands of ancient Israelite skeletons are being hidden at a University in Jerusalem for "political reasons".
"...I will tell you that I am very concerned there will not be anymore samples in the near future as Israel is going through this religious revolution it will be even more strict about releasing this kind of genome, this kind of information. Don't [be] mistaken, there are thousands and tens of thousands of skeletons. The data are not the problem. The existence of skeletons that show the whole history of Israel from all the regions -- it exists. It's hidden at some University in some core basement. But it's there, they are not being released because there are political pressures.
Just imagine for the sake of argument, tomorrow you're releasing all the skeletons that you collected in Jerusalem and they're all coming up E1b1...
...Do you see the Ashkenazi rabbi standing on a stage and then explaining this to the people and saying 'well we have rights to this temple!' -- that's not happening, right?
Or the Moroccan rabbi coming and saying the same thing the Ashkenazi rabbi said? I don't know how they both can be right. These are the problems we are dealing with and I'm very concerned there will not be more samples coming out and we'll just have to deal with what we have. Hopefully I'm wrong. But once again, the more pieces we have of this puzzle, the more we can put it together with our resources at my lab."
.
Eran Elhaik says here :
quote:
1:00:05
"Don't mistaken, there are thousands and tens of thousands of skeletons. The data are not the problem. The existence of skeletons that show the whole history of Israel from all the regions -- it exists. It's hidden at some University in some core basement.
This is a ridiculous claim, that there are tens of thousands of excavated skeletons
and where are they?
He doesn't know. They are at some University
what a load of bullshit
This is not to say there could be untested ancient skeletons at a university but to say tens of thousands is not even realistic
He is just trying to dupe these suckers to buy his test kits
what geneticist would even appear on a youtube channel of people who claim they are Israelites due to biblical verses they believe are fulfilled prophesies?
Then if you question this ridiculously large number of skeletons you are an "anti-black racist"
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It's impossible for Noah to have had a haplogroup like J
Haplogroup J is around 43,000 years old. Biblically, far before the flood
The oldest haplogroups are haplogroup A, 270,000 years old and haplogroup B is around 100,000 years old
Haplogroup E is 65,200 to 73,000 years old
So would we say, he could not have been E because A , B are much older? No, same problem with your "impossible" claim on J (no logic). These all started before the flood (if we are to believe Noah existed) Noah was not the first man so if he was real, he could have been J or another haplogroup like Elhaik said for the Israelites because J is much older than he was > he does not have to be A, similarly E
don't tell me about Djehuti, I'm not his keeper, that's a gimmick you keep using What I say or don't say to him has nothing to do with your wrongness, stop the diversions, the Most High is watching. It's not me fault you thought Djehuti never comes to the Kemet forum so you could hide here
LOL Again aside from the fact that Noah is a mythical figure (and again mythical does NOT mean fictional) how "impossible" it was for him to carry J depends on the era he lived in.
Lioness provides the dating of the clades, and one of many reasons why Noah and his family were not the only people on Earth to survive the flood is the very fact that so many clades exist today in the world that cannot all be derived from one man who is not Adam.
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Tazarah
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djehuti, you are such a clown. Stop wasting my time. Genetics and evolution are one in the same.
If you truly believe you "debunked" me then stop trying to save face by indirectly mentioning me and/or engaging me on a daily/weekly basis.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Furthermore, genetic methodology follows an evolutionary timeline (I'm surprised you didn't know this...) so by placing genetics over the Bible, you are essentially promoting evolution.
You don't have to admit to being an evolutionist because your arguments demonstrate that you are.
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: djehuti, you are such a clown. Stop wasting my time. Genetics and evolution are one in the same.
If that's what you believe then why are you using genetics if you don't believe in evolution??
quote:If you truly believe you "debunked" me then stop trying to save face by indirectly mentioning me and/or engaging me on a daily/weekly basis.
Your ass was debunked long time ago, but since YOU don't believe it I try to remind you.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Furthermore, genetic methodology follows an evolutionary timeline (I'm surprised you didn't know this...) so by placing genetics over the Bible, you are essentially promoting evolution.
You don't have to admit to being an evolutionist because your arguments demonstrate that you are.
So are you saying there is no such thing as micro-evolution with mutations in genes including those of germs which lead to new strains?? Are you saying you don't believe there are no differences in Y lineages with clades A to T and the same with mitochondrial (maternal) lineages?? So why is your ass here even arguing about what Y lineage Abraham carried then??! Even the creationist website I cited talks about Y chromosome clades! LOLPosts: 26466 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tazarah
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^ Did you miss the part where I explained to everyone why I even appeal to genetics? I've explained this several times.
Why do atheists with Ph.D's specialize in the Bible?
I already explained to Brandon that when I say evolution I am referring to macro evolution.
You are an evolutionist who is trying to make the Bible agree with evolution and this is why none of your arguments will ever make sense from a Biblical perspective.
Your core beliefs are not Biblical and never will be. Genetic methodology and evolution are one in the same. The fact that you did not even know this is wild.
quote: Genetics and the causes of evolution: 150 years of progress since Darwin
"Modern approaches to human evolution, using large datasets on DNA sequence divergence between primate species and on variation within the human population, were described by Kim et al. (2010) and Hancock et al. (2010). These studies show that Darwin's insight that we are descended from an ancestral species closely related to chimpanzees and gorillas has been amply confirmed by modern studies, and that the DNA of human populations provides evidence of changes reflecting adaptation to local environments."
posted
^ Your argument is both a straw doll AND poisoning the well. Just because genetics has been dominated by evolutionist-Darwinianism does not mean the field in and of itself is wrong. Anymore than biblical scholarship being erroneous because of a large influence of atheist-skeptics.
This is why DISCERNMENT is a considered a special gift of human reasoning and thought which what the bible teaches.
Of course you don't have that, because you are too simple minded and perhaps low IQ.
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^ Now you're just trying to make an excuses. Genetic methodology and evolution are one in the same, as I have thoroughly demonstrated. Of course you won't admit this because then you'll have to also admit that all of your arguments actually contradict everything the Bible says.
For example, you claim to have discernment but at the same time you claim that "all life under heaven" in Genesis was only in reference to a certain part of the earth. You have to claim such nonsense in order for your religion of evolution to make sense when the Bible is in the equation.
And it's funny because the creationist website that YOU yourself referenced in this thread also disagrees with your faulty interpretation of the flood story in Genesis.
Just stop, go be an evolutionist. Leave the Bible and it's characters alone
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^ Typical bible pervert that likes to take one sentence and phrase and distort it. Again just to show everyone else in this forum how dumb you are. Genesis is poetry that uses a lot of hyperbole. Hence when it said "all life under heaven" was destroyed, then I guess that would mean Noah and his family, since they too were under heaven, weren't they??! LOL
You see how easy your stupid arguments can be exploded??
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ^ Now you're just trying to make an excuses. Genetic methodology and evolution are one in the same, as I have thoroughly demonstrated. Of course you won't admit this because then you'll have to also admit that all of your arguments actually contradict everything the Bible says.
if that's the case either the bible is wrong or the many genetic arguments you have been making are nonsense
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^ Lioness, he is like a rat that jumps from one point to another to keep from getting caught even though he is already trapped.
He makes a preposition based on genetics but when he gets debunked, he then questions genetics and says it is all Darwinian. He even brings up bible arguments that have NOTHING to do with the topic like Noah's Flood killing everything except what was in the ark, and even his argument there is refuted.
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script flipping at the convenient moment
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Tazarah
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Djehuti is so smart that he didn't even know he is an evolutionist, or that genetic methodology is based on an evolutionary timeline.
Now he's holding hands and coping with the most notorious troll on this website ("the lioness"), who just blatantly said that the Bible is wrong according to genetic methodology.
Rofl. Let's not forget it is common knowledge that the lioness is a racist white man who has been pretending to be a black woman on this website for over a decade.
I already explained months ago on page 3 of this thread (and in other threads as well) that I don't subscribe to genetic methodology and only appeal to it to demonstrate how people do subscribe to it incorrectly use it in regards to the Bible:
And here we have a thread about an atheist bible scholar (djehuti can be seen commenting in this thread) but nobody has a problem with this Bible scholar being an atheist. According to their logic, this atheist bible scholar needs to be a bible-believer in order to study the bible:
They only want to cry about the fact that I place the Bible over "genetics" because I've been spanking them so hard with their own methodology.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be here crying in my thread...
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa bey,: I agree with Eran, archaeology directed by Israelis and anyone wanting to dig in Israel is controlled by political considerations.
It's funny to watch these cry babies stomp their feet and help each other cope. They have nothing to say about this, or the fact that the Ph.D geneticist I linked in the OP has spoken on this issue.
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^ There you go again attacking the very science you tried to use. Even most Christians who don't believe in macroevolution know that microevolution exists because there is far more conclusive evidence for the latter than for the former.
Don't bring in evolution to a simple issue of what lineage is carried by what population.
Even IF the Cohen modal haplotype is E1b1, the clade of E1b1 found in the Middle East is different from the one carried by African Americans so your BHI narrative has no genetic basis whatsoever!
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Tazarah
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You're such an idiot, I've already explained that I only use it to demonstrate how it contradicts the Bible. None of my arguments rest on DNA.
I only appeal to genetics to demonstrate how it contradicts the Bible and how also lay people like yourself incorrectly use it.
I've done close to 8-10 hours worth of presentations on YouTube and I have not ever once used genetics to support any of my arguments.
YOU guys hold to genetics religiously so all I've done is demonstrate how it doesn't even 100% support what you claim concerning the Bible and it's characters.
If you want to cry about people studying things they don't believe, then go troll that thread I linked in my last comment about the atheist Bible scholar.
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Meanwhile in another thread, from another paper...
DNA based family research project has revealed facts about the Semites suggesting some things in the Bible may be truer than expected. As it happens, at least two of the ‘Nations’ defined biblically as stemming from Shem’s son Arphaxad, the Arabic (Adnanite) and Hebraic, are confirmed by this study to be fruits of the same y-DNA root, giving credence to that part of the Arphaxad story.
J-Z18271 (18-30): Following Abraham’s migration to Canaan, a group of Canaanites known as the Hyksos, with the benefit of new war-making technologies such as the chariot, entered into Egypt and ruled there as the Fifteenth Dynasty (1650-1550 BCE), before being expelled. The Hyksos expulsion coincided with the beginning of Egypt’s domination of the Levant and the enslavement of Israel in Egypt (a period which lasted about 400years according to the biblical story, or from about 1500 – 1100 BCE). According to the biblical genealogy, Abraham’s Levitic lineage starting around 1500 BCE would have been in Egypt during the enslavement.
Several centuries after the Exodus from Egypt, the Hebrew nation is growing into the Kingdom of Israel, At this moment, ca.1000 BCE, Cohorts 18-30 associate with the Abel Beit Macaah and Meggido-I4517 samples 47 (Hebraic Culture), both in the northern part of the Kingdom. According to prior work done within this project, Z18271 is most likely the haplogroup of Aharon the Priest, from which the Cohanic Modal Haplotype arose. Forthwith from here, all descendants of the lineage are considered Cohanim.
I know it hurts you, but you need to get over it and move on.
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I've done close to 8-10 hours worth of presentations on YouTube and I have not ever once used genetics to support any of my arguments.
yes but you did it 58 times on Egyptsearch
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Tazarah
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Damn, is djehuti still trying to convince me that modern people are the descendants of ancient Levites after he is already on record admitting there isn't any ancient Levite DNA to prove it?
Arguments like this are why you guys were completely dismissed by Dr. Elhaik (an actual geneticist), and I would even bet money that he laughed upon hearing what you guys were claiming.
quote:"One thing is clear: the CMH cannot definitively prove the existence of a single founding father for the Jewish priesthood, let alone confirm that he was Aaron. If it is primarily a marker of priestly inheritance, why would it show up on two J lineages—most commonly on J1 but also on J2 -- that split thousands of years, maybe more than ten thousand years, before the time of Aaron? Moreover, some Jews with an oral history of being a Cohanim and no known record of conversion have neither a J1 nor J2 lineage. They are from the haplogroup E3b, which has Middle Eastern origins, or from Rlb, which is common among Europeans and some Turks. How could that be?"
"Abraham's Children: Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People" by Jon Entine, page 70-71
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^ We already have DNA from ancient Israelites.
Your only argument is that all these J1 carriers were not Levites but do you have any proof for this claim??
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Tazarah
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Uh I thought you were "done" talking to me?... of course that was a lie.
You keep posting the same map over and over again but where are the papers that support what you claim? What "Israelite" DNA are you referring to? The one from the incomplete study that says the J marker can't be confirmed as representing the entire population of Israel at the time?
I'm not interested in entertaining your backwards and fallacious logic. You are the one claiming ancient Levites had hg J yet at the same time you admit no ancient Levite DNA is even on record. So you actually debunked yourself. The burden of proof is on you to prove that ancient Levites had hg J, not for me to prove the opposite. You are the one making the claim.
quote:"One thing is clear: the CMH cannot definitively prove the existence of a single founding father for the Jewish priesthood, let alone confirm that he was Aaron. If it is primarily a marker of priestly inheritance, why would it show up on two J lineages—most commonly on J1 but also on J2 -- that split thousands of years, maybe more than ten thousand years, before the time of Aaron? Moreover, some Jews with an oral history of being a Cohanim and no known record of conversion have neither a J1 nor J2 lineage. They are from the haplogroup E3b, which has Middle Eastern origins, or from Rlb, which is common among Europeans and some Turks. How could that be?"
"Abraham's Children: Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People" by Jon Entine, page 70-71
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^ We have the DNA samples of ancient Israelites so there is no where else for you to run, lying rat.
Your only hope is that they are "not Levites", but there is no evidence to say what tribe they belonged to especially since Levites had no territory of their own.
You're done.
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Tazarah
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If I was done, you wouldn't keep coming back and trying to validate yourself after repeatedly claiming to be "done" talking to me. My previous comment demonstrates how backwards your logic is and how fallacious your "arguments" are.
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^ You are done but you're just too stupid to realize it. I've long been validated by the data that Lioness, others, and I have been posting in this forum. You are like a braindead zombie that can't accept it.
What backwards logic?? We have samples from actual ancient Israelites who show the SAME Y lineages as modern day Cohen from different Jewish minhag. Your only claim is that we don't know if those remains were Levites or Cohen which is a cop-out since there is no evidence to suggest they were not.
There is no "backwards" logic on our part but yours is that of a kindergartener who can't accept that Santa Clause is not real. LOLPosts: 26466 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tazarah
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Imagine calling someone a brain dead zombie but continuing to try engaging them everyday of your life... for some reason you obviously feel the need to try saving face and self-validating your position.
This comment is still relevant and demonstrates how pseudo you are in regards to this topic:
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Uh I thought you were "done" talking to me?... of course that was a lie.
You keep posting the same map over and over again but where are the papers that support what you claim? What "Israelite" DNA are you referring to? The one from the incomplete study that says the J marker can't be confirmed as representing the entire population of Israel at the time?
I'm not interested in entertaining your backwards and fallacious logic. You are the one claiming ancient Levites had hg J yet at the same time you admit no ancient Levite DNA is even on record. So you actually debunked yourself. The burden of proof is on you to prove that ancient Levites had hg J, not for me to prove the opposite. You are the one making the claim.
quote:"One thing is clear: the CMH cannot definitively prove the existence of a single founding father for the Jewish priesthood, let alone confirm that he was Aaron. If it is primarily a marker of priestly inheritance, why would it show up on two J lineages—most commonly on J1 but also on J2 -- that split thousands of years, maybe more than ten thousand years, before the time of Aaron? Moreover, some Jews with an oral history of being a Cohanim and no known record of conversion have neither a J1 nor J2 lineage. They are from the haplogroup E3b, which has Middle Eastern origins, or from Rlb, which is common among Europeans and some Turks. How could that be?"
"Abraham's Children: Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People" by Jon Entine, page 70-71
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While we're on the topic of BHI, I did a little digging into what they believe, and apparently this is how some of them view the "Twelve Tribes of Israel":
I don't know if this is what our Taz believes, but it is curious to me that the BHI person behind this meme identifies only three of the twelve tribes with Afro-Diasporan groups traditionally racialized as Black, with the others being either Latinos of mixed ancestry or Native Americans. Oddly enough, they identify none of these tribes with modern Africans still in Africa. Do the BHI seriously believe African-Americans are genetically closer to Native Americans than to people back in West and Central Africa?
Actually, it might explain some of the wabo cultism as well.
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