quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
If an Egyptian girl/woman from a respectable family, would go safari with a stranger from the internet, she would be so so punished by her family, if they would discover that. If and only if, she would ever show up again of course!
Is it the same in Germany?

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As you're probably aware, Germany is a quite liberal country, but any friend or relative would be VERY WORRIED if someone (male or female) went to the desert or anywhere else with a stranger!

There would probably not be physical but rather mental punishment (well, at least for someone who has reached the age of 18 which is the age of 'legally' becoming an adult here). One would earn quite a lot of disrespect and non-understanding from one's social surroundings. We have the 'benefit and responsibility' of being regarded as a mature adult quite early, so if we don't act like one, we quickly get to feel the consequences.

Physical punishment, as I understand, mainly happens in famililes in which the level of education is not very high.

But I would think that the most significant difference to Egypt is the REASON for punishment(as i understand): in Germany this would probably stem from worry about the person's safety, whereas i understand that in egypt this would often stem from a fear of loosing the girl's /woman's and her family's reputation. Here we don't lose our reputation from spending time alone with a man.

Having said that, this would be the general tendency of a modern educated German, however we have many different cultures and religions sharing this country. In addition, the different generations here also have different outlooks on life, therefore the above does NOT reflect a "universally German" opinion.

... how to infuse goodness and great behaviour in people all year, accross all religions (and those without a religion) without turning people into extremists ...

I guess this is not only a question for muslims to keep up their good spirit, but for the entire world population.

i am spending so much time trying to work this out, so far to no avail ...

Monica, considering the media in this is a grand idea as they more often than not form the world's opinion, especially the worst programmes and ideas!!!

Personally, I think one of the important questions is "how can one convince people that shared wealth has more value than one's own wealth?" - considering the structure of the western world in which companies (whose existence is only justified by their ability to generate profits) are close to having more power than governments and their people???

the media is definitely a start, but how can one convince shareholders that it is not worth saving on labour costs and just to have a few cents more return???

how is that going to happen???

sorry, a bit choppy, i'm really in a hurry but find this too interesting to walk past ...

Adoula, source of all wisdom, don't you have an idea on this???

I hope that many members will answer your question: what about your home?

In our home, there was never 'fear' of ill- reputation as we were privileged enough to be brought up with a lot of self confidence, and education was the principal goal. 'What people say' was totally out of our vocabulary when growing up in Egypt. That is the case with many of my friends and relatives.

It is definite that we never went to deserted places with strangers. It was a matter of intelligence, more than a matter of culture, and it was totally driven out of care and respect to ourselves, and towards our family not to initiate 'worries' that's for sure... but mostly because we were brought up in a way that underlined self respect and pride. ( by we I mean my brother and I )

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
If an Egyptian girl/woman from a respectable family, would go safari with a stranger from the internet, she would be so so punished by her family, if they would discover that. If and only if, she would ever show up again of course!
Is it the same in Germany?

---

As you're probably aware, Germany is a quite liberal country, but any friend or relative would be VERY WORRIED if someone (male or female) went to the desert or anywhere else with a stranger!

There would probably not be physical but rather mental punishment (well, at least for someone who has reached the age of 18 which is the age of 'legally' becoming an adult here). One would earn quite a lot of disrespect and non-understanding from one's social surroundings. We have the 'benefit and responsibility' of being regarded as a mature adult quite early, so if we don't act like one, we quickly get to feel the consequences.

Physical punishment, as I understand, mainly happens in famililes in which the level of education is not very high.

But I would think that the most significant difference to Egypt is the REASON for punishment(as i understand): in Germany this would probably stem from worry about the person's safety, whereas i understand that in egypt this would often stem from a fear of loosing the girl's /woman's and her family's reputation. Here we don't lose our reputation from spending time alone with a man.

Having said that, this would be the general tendency of a modern educated German, however we have many different cultures and religions sharing this country. In addition, the different generations here also have different outlooks on life, therefore the above does NOT reflect a "universally German" opinion.

But what about your home?

Ramadan is the month during which Prophet Mohammed received the inspiration of Quran.

But let us see how Egyptians celebrate:
Muslims celebrate that month with joy & happiness. They prepare for it by hanging up colored decorations in the streets & banners announcing that Ramadan is coming soon.

Since Egyptians are big eaters, they usually look forward to Ramadan ,for it is known for special sorts of desserts such as "Kunafa", "Kataief" & "Khushaf"(a cocktail consists mainly of dates apricot,black plums & raisins) , as well as a very delicious juice called "Kamar El Din".

TV becomes over loaded with various shows, programs & serials during Ramadan, one of the prominent programs that people used to watch during Ramadan is the quizzes, what Egyptians call "El Fawazir", it is one of Ramadan's features. Some people get really obsessed with TV during that month to the extent that they disregard their religious perceptions that should be performed during that holy month.

Well, now to the media effect point:
Many studies, concluded that media had limited effects, due to difficulty in changing people's minds.

But as someone said before: The media may not be able to tell us what to think, but they are stunningly successful in telling us what to think about.

The vast amount and frequency of television commercials during Ramadan cannot go unnoticed. It is the most-watched season of the year and, say most advertising experts, the most lucrative. For this reason many bank much of their advertising on just this one month.

Yet, during Ramadan, believers around the world can be found glued to their television sets when they should be busy making dua, doing tilawa or offering prayers.

Throughout the world religious, moral and social values have been drastically undermined by this great technological gift of the century. And entire nations seem to be helplessly enjoying the invasion. When people are doing nothing, they watch television. When they are doing something else, they still have television in the background.

Actually, TV is not just another kind of entertainment either. Although people are relaxed when the television set is on, when they turn it off, they are less relaxed than before they began, much like a drug that makes people feel better while they are doing it but worse afterward.

Now the question is:

Can this dangerous drug be somehow converted into a medicine?

In a way wasn't that My question? Well, it's exactly my point: how to turn the MEDIA/TV into a positive vehicule MOST of the time, instead of a negative one MOST of the time???

We definitely need to think about that one and get back, and pore our ideas out on this board, and then maybe form a not for profit association with one goal: How to change the world ...he he he, BUT with a date to the dream, that's for sure!!!

I have to run but I'll certainly be baaaack...

To msjen: I'll be working on your question too my friend, a bit later as I have a family reunion today.

Take care

Monica
Still searching for more kindness (and I feel there's hope!)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adoula:
[b]To Monica, who is always searching for more kindness in this world!

Well Monica,
Another good point.

The purpose of the fast is to help develop self-restraint, self-purification, God-consciousness, compassion, the spirit of caring and sharing, the love of humanity and the love of God. Fasting is a universal custom and is advocated by all the religions of the world, with more restrictions in some than in others.

It is a time to give our selves a mental break and to temporarily forget about the hundreds of worries and stresses we are constantly bombarded with. In hectic times, such as ours, and in places like the West, this valuable time to think about our lives, on individual basis, is a luxury and is desperately needed! It is a unique month of self-analysis, and of taking stock of one’s moral and spiritual ‘assets and liabilities’.

It cultivates in us the principle of sincere Love, because when we observe Fasting, we do it out of deep love for God. And a person, who loves God, truly is a person who knows what love is and why everyone on this Earth should be loved and treated justly, for the sake of God.

Now what actually happens is:

Sometimes it seems that many Egyptians just use Ramadan as an excuse to have fun, eat enormous amounts of food and to organize large gatherings of friends and family.

I will not mention about laziness, agressive attitude...etc, and always the reason is they are fasting.

And let’s not forget those “suhoor tents” that people spend so much time in ? Yeah, sure I'm generalizing....

Gone are the cigarettes, the drinking, and the clubbing – replaced by a veneer of suddenly-realized religiosity that only seems to last for a month. Sure enough, they are by no means representative of Egyptian society at-large. But I would venture to say that when it’s all said and done, Ramadan in Egypt comes and it goes – and nothing really changes.

Check this to know what TV offer in Ramadan. http://www.cairolive.com/newcairolive/ramadan/ramadan2003-tv.html

TV is a member of the family. It keeps us company when we're alone, entertains us when we have nothing to do, and helps us to relax after a hard day's work.

Television has been blamed for everything from the breakdown of the family to increases in crime, promiscuity and cholesterol levels.

Let us admit:
1- Television programs are created to achieve specific results.
2- Each person interprets programs differently. We don't all understand a given show the same way.
3- TV programs have an underlying economic purpose. Television exists to deliver audiences to advertisers.

It introduces us to faraway scenes, new concepts and ideas. Properly used, it is the most powerful educational device ever invented, with lessons to teach about human interactions, science and literature, history and current events.

It can even provide us with instruction on human behavior and how to act. But much of what we learn is up to us. Watching and discussing television programs — movies, specials, even regular series — can be an excellent way to exercise personal values.

But U know, the problem is that: father or the husband keep both of the automatic controls — one on each side of his chair.

And no way to leave one of it to the wife, so she can choose what is right for the kids...........lol

The ancient Egyptians did not provide much education. There were not many schools in Ancient Egypt like we have today. Boys were generally taught the trade of their father practiced. Girls did not attend school. Some girls from wealthy families could read though. Royal children were taught reading, writing and math. Boys with rich parents could join temple schools and become scribes or army officers.

Most learning went on at home where there was an emphasis on practical skills. Parents taught educational principles, religious beliefs and values. Fathers were usually responsible for their sons, and mothers were responsible for their daughters. All children learned about folk rituals and other customs. The father usually decided on the profession of his son.

Some of what ancient Egyptian children learned can by found in Educational Principles, the Books of Instruction. These books contained rules for a well-ordered life and elements of morality that included justice, wisdom, obedience, humanity and restraint. This is an example from the book that tells you how to act. "You should only talk when you are sure you know your subject. He, who would speak in council must he a word-smith. Speaking is harder than any other task and only does credit to the man with perfect mastery.

The ancient Egyptian civilization lasted for a long time. So education changed from one period to another. In the later years it seems there was a system of apprenticeship. This allowed craftsmen to teach their trade to young people who were not their children. The family of the apprentice paid the craftsman for training. In earlier times, education was more individualized. Each scribe taught his successor individually, usually his own son. Later there were formal classes for scribes. The Books of Instruction also served as teaching texts in the scribe schools. It was also common for an official to take his son as his assistant. In this way offices passed from father to son.

Here you can find how would your name be written in Egyptian Hieroglyphs: http://webperso.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~rosmord/nomhiero.html

Monica carissima,
come stai? grazie mille for the site, i found some already but they are not so active like here, actualy i'm just interested in people's attitude to different kind of situations

When i've been studing in University i wrote the essay something like "Influence of TV to Human Minds" or i don't remember but the main idea was this

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
They say: it is easy to turn on, no way to turn off.

TV is a member of the family. It keeps us company when we're alone, entertains us when we have nothing to do, and helps us to relax after a hard day's work.

Television has been blamed for everything from the breakdown of the family to increases in crime, promiscuity and cholesterol levels.

Let us admit:
1- Television programs are created to achieve specific results.
2- Each person interprets programs differently. We don't all understand a given show the same way.
3- TV programs have an underlying economic purpose. Television exists to deliver audiences to advertisers.

It introduces us to faraway scenes, new concepts and ideas. Properly used, it is the most powerful educational device ever invented, with lessons to teach about human interactions, science and literature, history and current events.

It can even provide us with instruction on human behavior and how to act. But much of what we learn is up to us. Watching and discussing television programs — movies, specials, even regular series — can be an excellent way to exercise personal values.

But U know, the problem is that: father or the husband keep both of the automatic controls — one on each side of his chair.

And no way to leave one of it to the wife, so she can choose what is right for the kids...........lol

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Jamilah,
I would like to read this article, please share with us.

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Children's psychiatrists and psychologists now consider, that the basic illnesses of children in XXI century will be illnesses from TV and computers. But what harm brings to children our usual domestic satellite, no, not the satellite, and already an irreplaceable member of our family - the TV? It harms triple: The irradiation resulting in development of nervous-somatic infringements; the somatic infringements connected to long sitting about the TV, general physical inactivity; the influence reflects, mainly, in emotionality.

Children spend a lot of hours in front of TV or a computer. Their attention entirely is directed on the screen. These children, as a rule, don’t read or read a little bit, their interests are narrowed till the sizes of the screen. In a result memory weakens, children start to study worse, become languid, not initiative. Children badly fall asleep, see quite often dreadful dreams (as a result of experience of events which they have seen enough on TV).

In the morning they hardly rise, feel like not had a rest. At school these children are usually languid, badly concentrate attention to educational process, think at the decision of tasks worse.

Children have often headaches. In result intellectual development of such children is slowed down, and character traits are worsened. They become not manageable, on requirements or requests of parents to come off the TV react scandal, tears.

It is important to note, that children get used to the world shown on TV, they absorb it in the soul and aspire to live on its precepts. TV codes behaviour of the child/teenager, forcing to live under laws of this world which they absorb in themselves from screens. Certainly, it reflects upon development of egoism, callousness, cruelty. Electronic games are especially dangerous for mental and intellectual development of children.

I like it very much.

I encourage U to visit my other post about the evil women, I just posted a message to heat up the thread.

I would like to hear your opinion.

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Hi Jamilah,
Thanks for this part of the main idea.

I like it very much.

I encourage U to visit my other post about the evil women, I just posted a message to heat up the thread.

I would like to hear your opinion.

---

Jokes, light comments and smart replies are many facets of the Egyptian sense of humor, which, in Egypt, is a way of life.

Egyptians laugh at many things. The contradictions of daily life provide them with plenty of material. Every region may also have a unique taste of humor, so what you hear in Cairo would be different from that in Luxor or Alexandria. But all Egyptian jokes aim at one thing only: a smile on the face of the receiver. A laugh is a bonus.

It is not uncommon to see groups of seasoned tourists at coffee shops exchanging jokes with local Egyptians. The subjects range from the ridiculous to the intellectual. Everyone genuinely laughs, sometimes at something completely unrelated to the joke itself. The funny pronunciation, the misunderstanding, even the glances, can provide a background to suit the mood of the conversation.

If you miss a joke, don't worry asking for an explanation and ruin the momentum. There should be plenty of other jokes to follow. Some jokes, of course, can not be translated and these are exchanged between Egyptians, or indeed amongst the tourists themselves.

Certain aspects fall beyond the humor, though. Practical jokes are rare and not readily appreciated by the majority of Egyptians. Also, religion is respected at all times, and that includes all faiths. Egyptians are not keen on racial jokes, regarding most of them as tasteless.

Political jokes are told in private and sex jokes are widely spread amongst young people. Jokes are tuned to a fine art. Most of the fun is in the way they are told. So, writing about the Egyptian sense of humor is not as funny.

The jokes and funny stories provide light entertainment to all classes of people, enliven their evenings and remove some of the hardships of long working days. The best jokes are the simplest and the spontaneous. Long articulated jokes are common only amongst professional groups and relate mostly to their profession or to actual events.

One such joke told by journalists (some say it is an actual story) is the obituary which came in very late one night to be published the following morning. The editor was tired and in a hurry to get home, so he wrote a note on it saying "only if there is a space for it". There was.

The following morning the obituary was published that Mr. xx died recently.. may God let him into paradise.. only if there is a space for him!!"

Doctors have similar stories about patients who speak on behalf of their wives and then, as the doctor said, take the pill regularly, then come back complaining that their wives are pregnant again!

The simple jokes, however, are more common and widely used. Although it is impossible to do Egyptian humor justice by just telling a few examples, I am sure that will be better than going on further with more narration.

There are those about the village idiot:

A tourist asks
- Can you tell the quickest way to town please?
-Are you walking or driving?
- Driving.
- That IS the quickest way!

Shortage of money is always a joke.
A man asks a shop assistant :"how much is that suit?".
- " LE 300, sir and we give a shirt free with it"
- "In this case can I buy the shirt only please?!"

One poor man to another:
-"Do you have any skills?"
-"Of course I have. I once sold furniture. The trouble is, it was my own".

Other jokes relate to witty replies:

A man asks his grandmother:
- Would you rather have some jelly and ice cream, or get married?
She replies: "I haven't really got the teeth for jelly and ice cream!".

A man walked into a supermarket and demanded half a head of lettuce. A boy working there told him that he has to buy the whole lettuce, but the man insists on half a lettuce. The boy went to the manager at the back of the shop and said
- A stupid man out there wants half a lettuce.. then realizing that the man is right behind him, added :..
"and this gentleman here wants to buy the other half!.

Other jokes:

- A man who sells kebab got married. On his wedding night he found his bed sprinkled with parsley!

- One kid to another :"Everybody stands up for my father at work".
- What does your father do?
- He is a judge.
- So what. People bow their heads to my dad at work, including your dad!
- Wow, what does he do?
- He is a barber.

Monica

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamilah:
[B]Egyptian Sense of Humor:

It is a very critical issue today, reflecting on the economical growth of Egypt.

This could certainly be discussed further.

Where is Adoula, msjen, Laura, Lori, and all the other interested members? bring some illumination to this please!

Monica
(Wishing for more kindness AND more education in this world)

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamilah:
Did you know that... newborn children were not likely to survive their first year. The infant mortality rate was extremely high, possibly around 60-70%, and the mortality rate for women in childbirth was also extremely high. Children then were seen as a special blessing from the gods if they survived their first year.
Most men continued to work until they died, the average life span was approximately 30 years of age for a poorer working man. Making it past the age of 40 was seen as a special blessing and those who did so were rewarded. Men were granted a stipend by the government consisting of grain and vegetables each year.
Girls lives were much different than boys. Pregnancy was a revered condition in ancient Egypt and even if a girl wasn't married, her pregnancy was celebrated. Women's lives were also relatively short with an average of 30 years for poor women and slightly more for women from richer families. Female retirement was different from men's, however. Women were to be taken care of by their sons. If a women had no sons she was to be taken care of by her daughter and son-in-law, but this was rare and occurred only if the daughter was now part of a wealthier family. It was more likely that these old women would be forced to live as beggars.

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What time period was this post in reference to? Ancient Egypt?

Monica, it's interesting to note that 97% if the population of Egypt today is crowded into a mere 3% of the land area. I think major businesses need to look at moving outside Cairo and look into developing housing areas with the industry near by to sustain these families.

Thanks
Laura

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamilah:
Did you know that... newborn children were not likely to survive their first year. The infant mortality rate was extremely high, possibly around 60-70%, and the mortality rate for women in childbirth was also extremely high. Children then were seen as a special blessing from the gods if they survived their first year.
Most men continued to work until they died, the average life span was approximately 30 years of age for a poorer working man. Making it past the age of 40 was seen as a special blessing and those who did so were rewarded. Men were granted a stipend by the government consisting of grain and vegetables each year.
Girls lives were much different than boys. Pregnancy was a revered condition in ancient Egypt and even if a girl wasn't married, her pregnancy was celebrated. Women's lives were also relatively short with an average of 30 years for poor women and slightly more for women from richer families. Female retirement was different from men's, however. Women were to be taken care of by their sons. If a women had no sons she was to be taken care of by her daughter and son-in-law, but this was rare and occurred only if the daughter was now part of a wealthier family. It was more likely that these old women would be forced to live as beggars.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
msjen is busy writing cv and socialising ...
oh and keeping fit ... read the evil thread

but she will be back soon

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"socialising"?!?!? JAWOHL!! *LAUGHING* hehehehe

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
"socialising"?!?!? JAWOHL!! *LAUGHING* hehehehe

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*LAUGHING, TOO*
nooooo, no date, hehe

but must go now otherwise i'll get the sack from my friends as i'm always late and today i promised to be on time and i'm late again already and guess what i'm typing these silly comments with shoes on and handbag around the shoulder rather than beeing a goog girl and LEAVING NOW!

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
*LAUGHING, TOO*
nooooo, no date, hehe

but must go now otherwise i'll get the sack from my friends as i'm always late and today i promised to be on time and i'm late again already and guess what i'm typing these silly comments with shoes on and handbag around the shoulder rather than beeing a goog girl and LEAVING NOW!

catch you later

---

*Waving Bye* and then thinking about how creative this lady is and remembering her "childrens story line" and also thinking surely there is room in this world for another "budding Author of Childrens books"

But remeber: Do U REALLY need to bother with this?

It all just ends in break-ups and divorces anyway.. Well, who needs men anyway?. You still know how to party with the best of them!

I know, U may will say: Saying that it's not worth dating because it'll end up in break-ups and divorces is like saying there's no point riding a roller coaster because you're just going to get off at the end, and that there's no point in eating a good dinner because it all turns to .... in the end.

That's up to you of course.

But remember, it is a fun life without dating, and don't have a date doesn't mean you can't dance. In fact, you'll probably end up dancing with more people (and having more fun) than if you spend the whole dance dancing every dance with your date.

Hey Monica,
I need your support, msjen is really good to make such a mistake.......lol

A discussion on to 'marry or not to marry' after a first marriage for example, or after a certain age, could be interesting.

The environment/society would be Egypt/Egyptians living in Egypt or abroad and other countries. In other words we would be seeking the opinion of men and women of the world.

An open exchange on this could be quite a challenge, maybe controversial, sometime provocative but never aggressive and always respectful of course.

What do you think?

Monica

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Msjen,
Don't forget that am here, I can give U twenty great date ideas - all for only 50 dollars......lol

But remeber: Do U REALLY need to bother with this?

It all just ends in break-ups and divorces anyway.. Well, who needs men anyway?. You still know how to party with the best of them!

I know, U may will say: Saying that it's not worth dating because it'll end up in break-ups and divorces is like saying there's no point riding a roller coaster because you're just going to get off at the end, and that there's no point in eating a good dinner because it all turns to .... in the end.

That's up to you of course.

But remember, it is a fun life without dating, and don't have a date doesn't mean you can't dance. In fact, you'll probably end up dancing with more people (and having more fun) than if you spend the whole dance dancing every dance with your date.

Hey Monica,
I need your support, msjen is really good to make such a mistake.......lol

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
*Waving Bye* and then thinking about how creative this lady is and remembering her "childrens story line" and also thinking surely there is room in this world for another "budding Author of Childrens books"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Msjen,
Don't forget that am here, I can give U twenty great date ideas - all for only 50 dollars......lol

But remeber: Do U REALLY need to bother with this?

It all just ends in break-ups and divorces anyway.. Well, who needs men anyway?. You still know how to party with the best of them!

I know, U may will say: Saying that it's not worth dating because it'll end up in break-ups and divorces is like saying there's no point riding a roller coaster because you're just going to get off at the end, and that there's no point in eating a good dinner because it all turns to .... in the end.

That's up to you of course.

But remember, it is a fun life without dating, and don't have a date doesn't mean you can't dance. In fact, you'll probably end up dancing with more people (and having more fun) than if you spend the whole dance dancing every dance with your date.

Hey Monica,
I need your support, msjen is really good to make such a mistake.......lol

---

*LAUGHING MORE*

adoula please re-read! noooo, i was saying NO date!!! meeting friends (and had a fantastic evening, i was the first one there i think they make up an earlier time for me than for the others because they know i'm always late, ohh no, what a reputation )!

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
msjen, finally caught you he he he...
what do you think of my suggestion about a discussion on marriage after a divorce or after a certain age?

---

excellent idea! but i have to admit that maybe i'm not the right person to post a comment on that ... i respect everyone else's choices to marry or not to marry, regardless of their age, of course (i would maybe suggest the older, the maturer, the wiser and more informed the decision?)

personally, however, i cannot imagine ever getting married as i am too young to make any kind of commitment for life (just like you can't imagine being an adult when you're 7 years old, i guess). with everything i've learnt my views have changed and they are still changing all the time as i find that there is something i learn every day.... and from this i've learnt that i would probably not be mature enough to make a decision for a LIFE TIME!

therefore, i am not really qualified for an OPINION on marriage (as i don't really think that divorce should be an option as one makes a promise FOR LIFE). as i am not religious this is not a problem for me.

my views about EVERYTHING will probably change another 100 times over the next few weeks!!! (no, not that extreme, but i think you get the picture)

and i certainly do not mean to offend any religios people here on the board as i understand that for you , marriage is one of the most important steps in life and so be it.

i just realise that i wropte a post on this although i have no clue what i'm talking about, great job msjen ... (sorry, being sarcastic...)

to all those of you who have taken that step, or who plan to so this step, my deepest respect! regardless of your age!

but well, it would certainly be interesting to hear everyone else's opinion on that!!!

what are yours monica, wise woman?

Your sense of humour is contagious
Wise woman...says...heeeey that was my question!!! let us wait for others to enter the discussion funny girl!

Where is Debbie???

Adoula?

Man_Kind (I keep calling him he never answers)Lori? Baba_Mido, fanta, and all the others....

Salam,

Monica

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
what are yours monica, wise woman?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
msjen, Your sense of humour is contagious
Wise woman...says...heeeey that was my question!!! let us wait for others to enter the discussion funny girl!

Salam,
Monica

---

ok then, dear friend, in that case i shall be doing the disappearing act shortly as i have to get up again for work in 4 hours ...

and women need their beauty sleep

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
msjen jen,

Your sense of humour is contagious
Wise woman...says...heeeey that was my question!!! let us wait for others to enter the discussion funny girl!

Where is Debbie???

Adoula?

Man_Kind (I keep calling him he never answers)Lori? Baba_Mido, fanta, and all the others....

Salam,

Monica

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 26 November 2003).]

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Sorry boys and girls, but I haven't been following this thread really at all. The premise for it at first (a competition between Monica and MSJEN to see who could post the most posts?) was of little interest to me, then the next time I looked it was like 5 pages long and I didn't have time to go back and see what had happened, and it's only a fluke that I opened it up today and decided to just go to page 8 and see what was last said, WHERE... I see my name.
Anyway, thanks for caring!

Their ability to undertake certain tasks would be even further enhanced if they could read and write but, with less than 2% of ancient Egyptian society known to be literate, the percentage of women with these skills would be even smaller. Although it is often stated that there is no evidence for any women being able to read or write, some are shown reading documents. Literacy would also be necessary for them to undertake duties which at times included prime minister, overseer, steward and even doctor, with the lady Peseshet predating Elizabeth Garret Anderson by some 4,000 years.

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Originally posted by Laura:
Hi Jamillah

What time period was this post in reference to? Ancient Egypt?

Monica, it's interesting to note that 97% if the population of Egypt today is crowded into a mere 3% of the land area. I think major businesses need to look at moving outside Cairo and look into developing housing areas with the industry near by to sustain these families.

Thanks
Laura

[This message has been edited by Laura (edited 26 November 2003).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
Actually Adoula, I was thinking:

A discussion on to 'marry or not to marry' after a first marriage for example, or after a certain age, could be interesting.

The environment/society would be Egypt/Egyptians living in Egypt or abroad and other countries. In other words we would be seeking the opinion of men and women of the world.

An open exchange on this could be quite a challenge, maybe controversial, sometime provocative but never aggressive and always respectful of course.

What do you think?

Monica

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quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
msjen, finally caught you he he he...
what do you think of my suggestion about a discussion on marriage after a divorce or after a certain age?

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Hi Monica,
Very interesting topic.

Msjen, Jamilah, Laura, Aaliyah, even if U consider yourself still young, we would like to hear your opinion.

There will always be questions about divorce and remarriage that will require to hear different opinions. What about a woman who learns she has married an alcoholic, or a child abuser? What if she fears her life is in danger?

Now I will start by marriage after divorce.

They say: Marriages end not because couples stop loving each other but because they can't stop hating each other.

Women who leave their marriage are more likely to have an easier time coping, healing and eventually moving on. As a woman who was divorced by her husband told me: “It’s better to have loved and leave, than to have loved and be left.”

Now I have my opinion on this: Divorce is an end and a beginning. From the moment you walk down the courthouse steps, you're going to need new knowledge and new ideas and most of all a new you.

There's no way not to cry. Whether you left the marriage or you were the one left, crying is good for the soul.

After a marriage ends, most people eventually build a new social life - which often includes dating.

There is some danger in beginning to date too soon after a divorce. Most people need a period to overcome the previous experience.

But at same time, life will not stop by divorce, a woman or a man need to ba happy, don't ever let anyone kill his/her spirit.

Remarriage require new levels of understanding, acceptance, and flexibility on the part of the father or the mother and their children.

A woman who is mature enough after divorce must know that sex life is not every thing. Now she is experienced, so don't take sex life into consideration.

People you date can have a positive influence on your children. They may help you feel better about yourself, feel happier. If you are happy, it will help your children feel happy.

So, the conclusion is ok to remarry, but take care from some points which U can find in this article:
http://www.realfamilies.com/artman/publish/article_74.shtml

Marriage is a promise for life. That's what it is. And that's exactly my point, is it not immoral to marry someone and then leave your partner?
I am well aware that there are millions of reasons for a relationship to stop functioning and many reasons to break up. But then why not simply live with a partner rather than with your husband or wife? What i mean is 'why marry?' If a couple is sure of one another they WILL stay forever if there is no compelling reason not to. And if there is a reason, then both partners should have the freedom to leave.

Many people marry for religious reasons, or because this is what society expects from them. But to me that is not reason enough, there should be a more COMPELLING reason.

I do not mean that it's moral to leave one's partner as soon as he/she gets ill for example, but every couple should have the authority to determine for themselves what is moral for them and what is not.

If one person stops loving the other: this is neither a satisfactory situation for one or the other, who wants to live with someone they don't feel loved by, and who wants to share their life with someone they don't love?

Children are a reason to marry, many say. As far as I can see, unfortunately this is the case but only because the laws are not very favourable to people having children if they are not married. Especially to men, the have close to zero rights where i live if they are not the husband of their child's mother.

But then the question arises: what do those millions of people do who NEED others to tell them what to do (and others includes the law, social norms, a religion, friends and family, etc, etc). And what do those do who are not communicative enough to understand and make themselves understood?

Well, they put a flaw into my argument, therefore it is not really a sophisticated argument but rather a collection of thoughts on how, in an ideal world, i think things should work out.

As you can see, the discussion wether to remarry or not, or at which age to marry, is not really relevant to me as i do not believe in the concept of marriage full stop.

Personally, I think everyone should do whatever pleases them so long as it does not negatively affect others. This includes to marry at whatever age they fancy.

Check msjen's 'nothing to say 'posts he he he... isn't she something!?

Give it a try, tell us why you want to be married? besides the fact that you love your fiancé of course.

Monica

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Originally posted by Jamilah:
Hi Monica!!!
concerning your topic i have nothing to say like MsJen 'cause my background is not huge and moreover i think that even now i'm young for marriage but at the same age others have 2d or 3d marriage but i'd like to know what and how others go through it

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This thread started as a little joke and developed into a lot of interesting topics all stashed under'competition' we covered historical, social economical facts about Egypt besides touching on many subjects, we even included jokes and recipes.
BUT between page 1 and page 8, we mentionned you many times, either requesting your input on a subject or other or just plain asking where you are.
So as you see we think about you and here you re....Laura 's idea of a special thread for your marketing strategy is really fun. Please give us some input there, and collectively we may be able to add productive intiatives.

BUT DEBBIE...don't go noooow! we need to hear your opinion about the 'marry or not to marry' issue, after a certain age or after a divorce or just plain after nothing he he he...

Cheers!
Monica

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Originally posted by Debbie:
Sorry boys and girls, but I haven't been following this thread really at all. The premise for it at first (a competition between Monica and MSJEN to see who could post the most posts?) was of little interest to me, then the next time I looked it was like 5 pages long and I didn't have time to go back and see what had happened, and it's only a fluke that I opened it up today and decided to just go to page 8 and see what was last said, WHERE... I see my name.
Anyway, thanks for caring!

P.S. I'm here still, but not spending as much time on the boards as I used to. I need to revise my marketing methods I guess and see if I can't drum up a bit more business. I need the dosh. Stay in touch, and don't worry, I won't disappear completely.

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I will share with you with my thoughts but tomorrow because i'm in a hurry, i'm sorry, sorry, sorry...

As for Jen's nothing to say, yeah i'm astounded Well done Jen

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Originally posted by Monica:
Hey Jamilah

Check msjen's 'nothing to say 'posts he he he... isn't she something!?

Give it a try, tell us why you want to be married? besides the fact that you love your fiancé of course.

Monica

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So do U think that U R going to a hotel for some romantic weekend, and U stay in one room and he stays in another one??

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Ok msjen, here is one reason to marry:
Couples with different last names planning to share a room will be required to show a marriage certificate before registering at hotel together (Islamic rules!).

So do U think that U R going to a hotel for some romantic weekend, and U stay in one room and he stays in another one??

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good point, adoula, never thought about that as i've never been in that situation ... and i don't plan to get myself into such situation either for the forseeable future

What is really crucial with Adoula's comment out in the open ist that:

Every 'foreign' young woman should be well informed of that comment; and therefore understand why, everytime they meet a young Egyptian man, online or offline, that is, he asks to marry after only 10 minutes - regardless of a green card and other hidden motives!!!!- Instead of saying: 'let's have a romantic week-end' he says : let's get married, and that my friends was a puzzle to many!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
good point, adoula, never thought about that as i've never been in that situation ... and i don't plan to get myself into such situation either for the forseeable future

but for those amongst us who are trying to work that out ... surely you have some good advice to share ???

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My opinion on marriage:

It's for the birds (he he he, only kidding)...

I say, if people are looking for companionship, after a divorce, or after a certain time of being celibate, without expectations what so ever, only compatibilty of character and background of course, maybe it's a good idea.

But in reality, I certainly vouch for 'friendship' in the real meaning of the word.

It is more rewarding to me, to have real genuine friends, and lead my life respectfully, independantly, than lower my standards just to 'fit' in a society.

It's important to point out this sentence, figuring in the selected article;

'Another unique barrier involves the ghost of marriage past. Individuals can be haunted by the negative experiences of previous relationships, and not even recognize how it is impacting the new marriage. Work to not interpret the present in light of the past, or you might be destined to repeat it."

That is a toughie!

Originally posted by Adoula:
Hi Monica,
Very interesting topic.

Msjen, Jamilah, Laura, Aaliyah, even if U consider yourself still young, we would like to hear your opinion.

So, the conclusion is ok to remarry, but take care from some points which U can find in this article:
http://www.realfamilies.com/artman/publish/article_74.shtml

[/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by Monica:
Ok you pulled my leg....he he he ...only kidding.

What is really crucial with Adoula's comment out in the open ist that:

Every 'foreign' young woman should be well informed of that comment; and therefore understand why, everytime they meet a young Egyptian man, online or offline, that is, he asks to marry after only 10 minutes - regardless of a green card and other hidden motives!!!!- Instead of saying: 'let's have a romantic week-end' he says : let's get married, and that my friends was a puzzle to many!!!

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hi monica

yes absolutely, it is actually something we as westerners cannot comprehend as we are used to so much freedom.

but i guess we cannot ask a muslim country to change their rules for our ideas of reasonable behaviour ...

although i really wish that governments would base their laws on ALL cultures and religions (or non-religious people) that live and work in a country...

let me illustrate that in the following example: in germany, a few weeks ago, there was a court ruling that forbid a turkish muslim female teacher to wear a head-scarf at school whilst teaching pupils. that is absolutely pathetic, as it is a LAW that there is freedom of religion in this country. so how can someone FORBID this lady to wear a head-scarf!!!

in my small ideal world,REAL freedom of religion should be transfered to every country, including countries that consist of a mainly muslim population, those who are religious should stick to their religious rules regardless of wether these rules are the law or not. and those who are not religious should do whatever they want to do (in private) so long as they do not offend the public.

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
Every 'foreign' young woman should be well informed of that comment; and therefore understand why, everytime they meet a young Egyptian man, online or offline, that is, he asks to marry after only 10 minutes - regardless of a green card and other hidden motives!!!!- Instead of saying: 'let's have a romantic week-end' he says : let's get married, and that my friends was a puzzle to many!!!

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hahhahaaa,
Good point Monica.
So let us marry from a young Egyptian man, means why not have some hot weekend together??

So what about marriage offer from a mature Egyptian man??

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
Actually Adoula, I was thinking:
A discussion on to 'marry or not to marry' after a certain age, could be interesting.

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Monica, msjen, and all my friends,

A 35-year-old woman who
wants a family is getting close to the point where she has to choose the
best of her available suitors. A 35-year-old man can always choose to wait
another five or 10 years till someone better comes along. In general, the
longer you spend searching for something—be it a car, a house, or a life
partner—the happier you're going to be with the one you end up with.

But remeber: a woman's optimal strategy is to settle for an imperfect mate and then try to change him. A man's optimal strategy is to search until he finds someone close to perfect. It's therefore no surprise
that women, more often than men, should end up regretting their choices.

If I miss a day of this thread it takes me forever to catch up with you fast thinkers and typers...lol

Anyways let me spend a little more time here reading and then see if I can add anything to these constant turns this thread seems to take

Could you please describe the characteristics of a decent mature Egyptian Man for all women that read this board?

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
hahhahaaa,
Good point Monica.
So let us marry from a young Egyptian man, means why not have some hot weekend together??

So what about marriage offer from a mature Egyptian man??

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I am happy you're around, I noticed your silence yesterday!!! nothing new on Fauna and Flora and i thought you must be taking a break.
This thread is special don't you think...all sorts of issues, I guess it's a unique blend!

By the way, I found something with snow for you....yes yes ...I'm sending it today!
Later!
Monica

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Originally posted by Laura:
*Requesting the Digest Form of this Thread for Late Night Reading* hehehe

If I miss a day of this thread it takes me forever to catch up with you fast thinkers and typers...lol

Anyways let me spend a little more time here reading and then see if I can add anything to these constant turns this thread seems to take

Laura

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