posted
Hi, I just discovered this forum and think it is quite interesting. You seem to have had lots of experiences with Egyptian men - be it vacation or internet. The other day I noticed that my husband is chatting in yahoo fooling around with other women. He forgot to sign out and left as there was an emergency in the hospital, that's how I discovered that he was promising ever lasting love to someone. I did not confront him for certain reasons. We live in Alexandria and he is a doctor. Did anyone meet him in the chatroom? Thanks for your help.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Amina, shame on your husband! You should have confronted him straight away after his return from the hospital. You deserve better then that. Get the hell out of this relationship! Good luck!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Sorry to hear about your egyptian husband. Maybe you could put his email address on here without giving away his identity since he works at the hospital. Usually yahoo id's don't have anything to do with first or last name.
quote:Originally posted by Amina: Hi, I just discovered this forum and think it is quite interesting. You seem to have had lots of experiences with Egyptian men - be it vacation or internet. The other day I noticed that my husband is chatting in yahoo fooling around with other women. He forgot to sign out and left as there was an emergency in the hospital, that's how I discovered that he was promising ever lasting love to someone. I did not confront him for certain reasons. We live in Alexandria and he is a doctor. Did anyone meet him in the chatroom? Thanks for your help.
posted
Amina, is your husband a surgeon?? Was it Yahoo you 'caught'him using???
quote:
Originally posted by Amina: Hi, I just discovered this forum and think it is quite interesting. You seem to have had lots of experiences with Egyptian men - be it vacation or internet. The other day I noticed that my husband is chatting in yahoo fooling around with other women. He forgot to sign out and left as there was an emergency in the hospital, that's how I discovered that he was promising ever lasting love to someone. I did not confront him for certain reasons. We live in Alexandria and he is a doctor. Did anyone meet him in the chatroom? Thanks for your help.
------------------ I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
posted
A surgeon from Alexandria in the yahoo chat? Don't tell me it's M., the one I had been chatting with for quite some time. He told me he was single and said I'd be the one he had looked for all his life and swore eternal love. He was really good in words. Tried to convince me to become a muslim and wanted me to come to Alex and meet him. As I had heard exactly the same words from other Egyptians in the yahoo chat (do they have a club?), I did not take him serious any longer. Girls beware, he's been using several ID's. Posts: 3 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Carleen, no, I am not Egyptian, I am from Europe, but I am muslim by birth. I am his second wife. He is still married to his first wife, and as they have children he remains married for the kids' sake, and being muslim this is okay with me. He lives with me, though. We have a 2 y/o child. Until I saw the messages at his PM I thought we were happily married. He spends 12-14 hours at the hospital each day and also spends a lot of time with his children. Being so busy as he is I would have never thought that he had even time to fool around in the internet. Posts: 16 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Why in your opinion is it OK to be a second wife as a Muslim??
Which Category does he fall under to take a second wife?
A Muslim man can have more than one wife but under certain circumstances only, and provided that he is JUST to all.
Most Egyptian Muslim women do not accept a second wife UNLESS they can't fulfill certain marital obligations, or if they are on the 'ignorant' side of the track.
Most Egyptian Muslim women do not like to be second wives either, unless they have special circumstances like collecting a widow pension for example.
quote:Originally posted by Amina: Carleen, no, I am not Egyptian, I am from Europe, but I am muslim by birth. I am his second wife. He is still married to his first wife, and as they have children he remains married for the kids' sake, and being muslim this is okay with me. He lives with me, though. We have a 2 y/o child. Until I saw the messages at his PM I thought we were happily married. He spends 12-14 hours at the hospital each day and also spends a lot of time with his children. Being so busy as he is I would have never thought that he had even time to fool around in the internet.
posted
Monica, when I met him at a medical congress 3 years ago and fell in love I knew he was married. His 1st wife told me that there was no more love between them but that she did not want a divorce for the sake of their children. As they are a very wealthy and respected family she feared she might lose her dignity in front of neighbors and friends in case of a divorce. Being a muslim myself I could understand her - even if I grew up in Europe. She agreed that I'd be the second wife, so she could keep her dignity. I get along with his 1st wife, so there is no problem. We made a contract, though, that he is not allowed to marry a third wife. If he had the wish to do so, I would divorce.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Amina, if his surname begins with G then I might know him and maybe we need to talk in private
quote:Originally posted by Amina: Monica, when I met him at a medical congress 3 years ago and fell in love I knew he was married. His 1st wife told me that there was no more love between them but that she did not want a divorce for the sake of their children. As they are a very wealthy and respected family she feared she might lose her dignity in front of neighbors and friends in case of a divorce. Being a muslim myself I could understand her - even if I grew up in Europe. She agreed that I'd be the second wife, so she could keep her dignity. I get along with his 1st wife, so there is no problem. We made a contract, though, that he is not allowed to marry a third wife. If he had the wish to do so, I would divorce.
------------------ I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
posted
ok I understand your situation. Thanks for clarifying.
But to get back to your present dilemma, here is what maybe you should do:
Do you have proof that he is talking to ONE or is it to MANY?
Maybe, and I'm not excusing him, he is just fooling around, with no intention of going further, out of boredom or something.. which is wrong for everyone concerned, but have you tried to understand what is his objective in doing so?
Maybe a good open conversation would clear things. Wish you the best.
NB: there is a software you can buy/install that could copy everything the keyboard types, in case you have doubts for the future. It exists, for several years. Very high tech I hope you will not need to go that far.
quote:Originally posted by Amina: Monica, when I met him at a medical congress 3 years ago and fell in love I knew he was married. His 1st wife told me that there was no more love between them but that she did not want a divorce for the sake of their children. As they are a very wealthy and respected family she feared she might lose her dignity in front of neighbors and friends in case of a divorce. Being a muslim myself I could understand her - even if I grew up in Europe. She agreed that I'd be the second wife, so she could keep her dignity. I get along with his 1st wife, so there is no problem. We made a contract, though, that he is not allowed to marry a third wife. If he had the wish to do so, I would divorce.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 12 August 2004).]
posted
Monica, of course you're free to take this however you wish:
I did/do have suspicions that some of the "Blunt" posts might have come from you (not the ones with the foul language though!). But regardless, I'm glad to see you helping people like Amina again. This is the kind of thing I always admired about you. No matter how repetitious/inane the story (and I'm not AT ALL saying Amina's is), you were always willing to "lend a shoulder".
Posts: 310 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: May 2004
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It is unfortunate ..that B thing...I'm taking it with a sense of humour though. Got many emails for support that was nice. But..C'est la Vie!!
I sincerely hope Amina finds a solution.
You know that it does not have to be a drastic one of course, If the husband realizes he hurt her!
Who knows maybe a change of heart?
quote:Originally posted by Carleen: Monica, of course you're free to take this however you wish:
I did/do have suspicions that some of the "Blunt" posts might have come from you (not the ones with the foul language though!). But regardless, I'm glad to see you helping people like Amina again. This is the kind of thing I always admired about you. No matter how repetitious/inane the story (and I'm not AT ALL saying Amina's is), you were always willing to "lend a shoulder".
posted
D*mn. That is really too bad. But you would kinda think, if these guys can be *this* duplicitous, they would at least not use their real names!
Posts: 310 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Meanwhile I found out through Aiysha that he is not only fooling around. My husband, the "Egyptian surgeon" (one of his many ID's) got married online to other women. I wonder how naive a woman must be to believe this was a valid marriage. What Aiysha told me makes me believe I am married to a psychopath. I am shattered and confused. I cannot stay with him any longer.
Please, speak to your husband first. Get the story from HIM, at least try.
Maybe he does need help. Maybe he is a psychopath, but check all the stories with him first.
Remember your child, it is important that your husband seeks help for the sake of your child.
You might need a good lawyer, and also you may need to talk to his first wife the mother of his other children, brother/sister of your own child.
Maybe you can come to a solution together for the children's protection. You did say you get along right? For whtever it is worth:
Most MEN that marry more than a woman are NOT to be trusted. That is why most Egyptian women do not accept to be second wives, unless the situation falls under very specific circumstances, stated in the Qur'an.
Good Luck.
quote:Originally posted by Amina: Penny,
Meanwhile I found out through Aiysha that he is not only fooling around. My husband, the "Egyptian surgeon" (one of his many ID's) got married online to other women. I wonder how naive a woman must be to believe this was a valid marriage. What Aiysha told me makes me believe I am married to a psychopath. I am shattered and confused. I cannot stay with him any longer.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 13 August 2004).]
But please take Monica's advice and talk to him first before you take any quick decisions, please hear him out and try to see why he needs to do these things. You will need to understand the WHY for your own sanity.
Just remember decisions don't have to be taken in an instant... get all your facts together before you do anything that will affect the rest of yours and your childs life.
But please take Monica's advice and talk to him first before you take any quick decisions, please hear him out and try to see why he needs to do these things. You will need to understand the WHY for your own sanity.
Just remember decisions don't have to be taken in an instant... get all your facts together before you do anything that will affect the rest of yours and your childs life.
Take care Penny
The fact that he went as far as marrying women online (is that even possible?), seems to indicate a problem more serious than just flirting in the cyberspace that happens to A LOT of 'good men' (unfortunately). Talk to him please, but NOT in the accusatory manner (I know...); if he has indeed any kind of mental illness he might get not only defensive and uncooperative, but even violent. Join forces with your co-wife and make a well thought of 'interrogation plan'. If you play your cards wisely he may get medical help and your family will be a harmonious one again. From the bottom of my heart, I wish you good luck, patience and wisdom.
quote:Originally posted by Karah_Mia: The fact that he went as far as marrying women online (is that even possible?), seems to indicate a problem more serious than just flirting in the cyberspace that happens to A LOT of 'good men' (unfortunately). Talk to him please, but NOT in the accusatory manner (I know...); if he has indeed any kind of mental illness he might get not only defensive and uncooperative, but even violent. Join forces with your co-wife and make a well thought of 'interrogation plan'. If you play your cards wisely he may get medical help and your family will be a harmonious one again. From the bottom of my heart, I wish you good luck, patience and wisdom.
i would say not that easy Travolta. Medical profession can only determine his "sickness" not just him claiming "I have a problem. I am a pschycopath. Please forgive me". he can manipulate in this sense. Do not forget he is a doctor himself by profession. Mental condition is always the first thing claimed as a defence be it criminal offence or infidelity. Another own is "weakness". Another one is circumstances. Another one is "I did not do it. They did". Another "I was joking". Another "You misinterpred. You misunderstood." etc etc etc All are easy defence mechanisms not to take responsibility for one's actions and take advantage of those who trust.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 13 August 2004).]
Meanwhile I found out through Aiysha that he is not only fooling around. My husband, the "Egyptian surgeon" (one of his many ID's) got married online to other women. I wonder how naive a woman must be to believe this was a valid marriage. What Aiysha told me makes me believe I am married to a psychopath. I am shattered and confused. I cannot stay with him any longer.
Amina, very sorry. I hope you can go through this more or less fine. It is not a nice way to find out such things.
If you could find strength to ignore your initial shock, do what Monica suggested, install that software and get evidence before the conversation, if you feel you need more than emails from people who talked to him. It is easy said than done. I certainly would not have been able to hide and wait for more evidence if I were in your shoes. Yet, his own words are way more powerful than other people’s stories for your own benefit of being immune to his possible manipulations during the conversation.
Kat
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 13 August 2004).]
posted
Katrina, last night I played his game to see how far he goes. I knew he was online so I went to my study and went online too and created a fake profile for the chatroom. I could not locate him in the room but saw on my screen that his PM was on, so I supposed he was chatting with someone. I sent him a message telling him that I found him on my friends' list but as I talked to so many people I could not remember who he was. He messaged back right away and after 20 or 30 minutes he told me I was the one he had been waiting for all his life and proposed marriage. I had no idea he was so good in words as at home he only talks about the stress he has in the hospital. I remembered one of the ID's of a woman he was talking to and contacted her this morning. Luckily she was online and wrote back. I sent a copy of the letter Aiysha sent to me on e-mail in several pieces to her PM and she answered that he had tried to convince her into an online marriage, too and invited her to come to Alex. He told her he was divorced twice and single just waiting for the love of his life and so on. Just one hour later this woman contacted me again. She said she had sent a copy of the letter to his e-mail pretending she had a friend in the chatroom who knew him too, without giving the identity of Aiysha, and asked him what this was all about. Apparently he was very fast in swearing that it was all lies, that he had never contacted anyone and was only in the Chatroom to help people finding their way to Islam. He said all the women in the chatroom were after him, only fat unattractive and old women over 45 who asked him to marry him because he was good looking and a doctor and that this was their revenge to send her letters like that because they could not have him. He said these women were all sick idiots and that she should not believe their lies as he would only love her. She told me she never took him serious as he was too good with words to be true. I feel like being in the wrong movie and ask myself whether this has really happened. It is like waken up from a nightmare and then find out that the nightmare is real. About an hour ago I called his first wife and told her the whole story. She was not surprised and told me he had been having affairs all during their marriage, that's why she refused to live with him any longer. Still she wants no divorce to keep her dignity. But maybe that's her way to punish him. I can't confront him as I wanted to, I just feel too sick. He won't be home before midnight, and by that time I will be gone. I have booked a flight for me and our daughter to Geneva where my parents live. A friend will drive me to the Cairo Airport tonight. He cannot follow me as he needs a visa and does not get one without an invitation letter. I will leave a letter for him, I just don't have the nerves to confront him personally listening to all these lies. All I want is get away from here. I will keep you informed and write a message when I am in Geneva.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Are you going to punish the kids (leaving their father) becasue you cannot confront him???
Posts: 477 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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You are right to want nothing to do with this weird man.
Was he close to your child? was he a good father? will the child suffer from being away from the father..just thinking of the child here for a moment.
What children and parents mean to each other is not like husband/wife relationships. So I'm wondering how will your child react to this ... Keep us posted.
posted
No, I do not punish the kids. His kids are with his first wife, I hardly know them. Our child will only be 2 next month. She hardly knows him as he spends all his time in the hospital or in the internet. He was disappointed that she was not a son, always stressing that his first wife gave him two sons. So I do not think I punish my child if I take her to Switzerland. Posts: 16 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Amina: No, I do not punish the kids. His kids are with his first wife, I hardly know them. Our child will only be 2 next month. She hardly knows him as he spends all his time in the hospital or in the internet. He was disappointed that she was not a son, always stressing that his first wife gave him two sons. So I do not think I punish my child if I take her to Switzerland.
Grrrrr! That makes me so MAD when people say that!! His wife did not "give" him anything but her egg! As a doctor HE should know it's the MAN'S sperm that determines an embryo's sex!!
Posts: 310 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Amina: No, I do not punish the kids. His kids are with his first wife, I hardly know them. Our child will only be 2 next month. She hardly knows him as he spends all his time in the hospital or in the internet. He was disappointed that she was not a son, always stressing that his first wife gave him two sons. So I do not think I punish my child if I take her to Switzerland.
Amina, good luck to you
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 15 August 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by Amina: No, I do not punish the kids. His kids are with his first wife, I hardly know them. Our child will only be 2 next month. She hardly knows him as he spends all his time in the hospital or in the internet. He was disappointed that she was not a son, always stressing that his first wife gave him two sons. So I do not think I punish my child if I take her to Switzerland.
If that's what your heart tells you, it is OK not to confront him; after what you described it seems it would not help much since he has a strong 'defense line' ready to be fired at you (they are ALL fat and jealous...hee hee hee). Also, could he possible be ever a good father to the child whose sex is a disappointment to him AND his little mental/testosterone problem getting out of control?... Living with a man like that would make you a bitter, unhappy, and depressed person; I am sure this is not a mother figure you have in mind for your own daughter. Good luck to you and your girl. Please let us know you are OK in Geneva.
posted
Wow, I can't believe what I am reading here. I just was in yahoo chat a few minutes ago when someone mentioned the topic and said a bunch of women would be quite mad at a certain Egyptian surgeon at the Egyptsearch Website. It took me a while to find this forum as I had never been on that site before and when I read the comments and recognized "my" surgeon, I signed in as a member to write a comment. This guy (if his first name starts with M and his last with G) talked to me for a while. First he started out very polite, then tried to convince me to convert to islam, telling me I would end up in hell otherwise, and when I hesitated he suddenly swore I was the woman he had looked all his life for and that this was the first time he ever was in love. He said he was divorced and that now that he found me his destiny would be fulfilled. I must admit I was flattered by the words he used ... until he invited me to click on his webcam. I nearly fell off my chair when I did so as he had exposed what he thought was the best part of him which no woman could resist as he thought he was far above average in size. He asked me to make him come online and that it was my duty if I did not want to lose his love. That was the day when I put him on my ignore list. I feel sorry for all thos poor girls who believed his lies, but most of all I feel sorry for his wife. No one deserves a husband like that.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Talibah: Wow, I can't believe what I am reading here. I just was in yahoo chat a few minutes ago when someone mentioned the topic and said a bunch of women would be quite mad at a certain Egyptian surgeon at the Egyptsearch Website. It took me a while to find this forum as I had never been on that site before and when I read the comments and recognized "my" surgeon, I signed in as a member to write a comment. This guy (if his first name starts with M and his last with G) talked to me for a while. First he started out very polite, then tried to convince me to convert to islam, telling me I would end up in hell otherwise, and when I hesitated he suddenly swore I was the woman he had looked all his life for and that this was the first time he ever was in love. He said he was divorced and that now that he found me his destiny would be fulfilled. I must admit I was flattered by the words he used ... until he invited me to click on his webcam. I nearly fell off my chair when I did so as he had exposed what he thought was the best part of him which no woman could resist as he thought he was far above average in size. He asked me to make him come online and that it was my duty if I did not want to lose his love. That was the day when I put him on my ignore list. I feel sorry for all thos poor girls who believed his lies, but most of all I feel sorry for his wife. No one deserves a husband like that.
Posts: 310 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Amina: Monica, when I met him at a medical congress 3 years ago and fell in love I knew he was married. His 1st wife told me that there was no more love between them but that she did not want a divorce for the sake of their children. As they are a very wealthy and respected family she feared she might lose her dignity in front of neighbors and friends in case of a divorce. Being a muslim myself I could understand her - even if I grew up in Europe. She agreed that I'd be the second wife, so she could keep her dignity. I get along with his 1st wife, so there is no problem. We made a contract, though, that he is not allowed to marry a third wife. If he had the wish to do so, I would divorce.
As salaamu alaykum Amina
My husband is a doctor in Alexandria as well, perhaps they know eachother, what club does he belong to?
It was quite shocking to read this part of your post, as being in clubs with other doctors wives, most will find it less dignified to stay in a marriage where a husband takes a second wife, especially one from a wealthy family, it will usually bring her more shame and divorcing him shows some dignity.
It is unfortunate that it's usually the poorer less educated women that accept second wives, as the more educated, at least the ones that I know, always have it written in their marriage contracts... THEY WILL NOT ACCEPT A SECOND WIFE... it's interesting you said that she made a contract with you not to take a third wife, I have never in all my years heard of a second wife and a first wife making a contract together, maybe I misunderstood. Polygamy is less acceptable in the educated class unless under strict islamic guidance.
It is unfortunate that you had to learn about this the hard way, as it is sometimes typical for a man that takes a second wife to want a third and then a fourth, in other words, he is never satisfied.
Good luck with whatever you decide. Your child is entitled to all their rights, but you may not be able to take your child out of the country without his permission, as he has rights as well, and may be well connected. You may not be even entitled to a divorce, unless you can prove he has 'legally' taken a third wife, no attorney will take an internet marriage seriously. So please be cautious with your decisions.
posted
Gosh! What a dramatic 48 hours. Insha Allah Amina prayed istikhara before taking that dramatic step and the end result will be whatever is best for all of them.
Assalamu alaykum Haqikah! I was interested in your comment that “polygamy is less acceptable in the educated class unless under strict islamic guidance” and wondered if you could elaborate on what you mean by this and explain how is this done practically here in Egypt?
You also made some valid points about the legal aspects of Amina’s situation. As I understand it she would have to have a non-Egyptian passport for her daughter to be able to take her out of the country without official permission from the father.
posted
Good job, Amina!!!! U have shown strenght and independence! Just what I like about western women!! 2 wives??!!His first wife did not want a divorce, and accepted a 2nd wife because that way she kept her dignity?? Being one of 2 wives is dignified??? C'mon! Next time accept no seconds! Personally, I would be offended if a woman accepted being a second wife....Where is her pride??? where is her jealousy??? If she loves me, she won't share me....wheather Islamic or not! Posts: 55 | From: Cairo,Egypt | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianGuy: Good job, Amina!!!! U have shown strenght and independence! Just what I like about western women!! 2 wives??!!His first wife did not want a divorce, and accepted a 2nd wife because that way she kept her dignity?? Being one of 2 wives is dignified??? C'mon! Next time accept no seconds! Personally, I would be offended if a woman accepted being a second wife....Where is her pride??? where is her jealousy??? If she loves me, she won't share me....wheather Islamic or not!
posted
I think Amina should not be judged that hard for leaving the country. First, she is in shock. She learned about cheating of her husband in a very terrible way (like there is a good way to learn?). If she were an egyptian woman with her family around in Cairo, one of the first things she would probably do is to run to her family where she is loved, understood, cared for, and given compassion and support for her to feel better about what happened. Since her famliy is in Geneva, this is where she is running to upon emotions or rationality, only she knows that, not us. I think it is a pretty natural reaction, whether she wants to confront her husband now or at all. It does not mean she is going to deprive her husband of his child. She may come back and do in a civilized manner seeking a divorce and agreeing on parental rights for both. She had horrible 48 hours and this is her emotional response to a strong shock.
As far as father.. Well, where was he? Why was he playing on the Internet instead of watching his 2-year old daughter sleeping and spending time with his wife? I do not think she should be blamed here as of yet at all. At this point she is a victim. He had all the rights in the world to be with his daughter, but he chose fooling around with women on the Internet, the choice and action he has to be responsible for too. If she denies his rights to the child later and not allow him to see the baby at all, that would not be right. So far she has no indication of doing so. What she is doing she is simply running home in shock to be with those who would not betray her and would support as she feels she was in her worst nightmare. Honestly, I do not think it is good for the daughter to grow up with a pathological liar father and cheat. He does not even seem to participate much in her growing up anyway.
I personally would have confronted the husband if I were in her shoes. I would not believe his lies but I would want to confront very much even if my decision to divorve had been made and I would have taken no step back, I would still listen and confront big time. I would like to say the last word myself. However, I would want to run to my mom too in such situation, to the most wonderful and loving person I can always trust to get understanding and actually wisdom.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 14 August 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by Monica: Amina said she was leaving tonight! She probably is on the plane right now.
No permission needed - anymore - from a husband, for a wife to leave Egypt.
Only IF there is a pending court case between them.
Assalamu alaykum Monica
The comments were about taking a child of an Egyptian out ot the country without persmission. if the child has an Egyptian passport.
This information comes from a document about International Parental Abducion related to Egypt issued by the Egyptian Embassy in Washington DC and the US Embasssy in Cairo (http://travel.state.gov/abduction_egypt.html):
Father’s Permission Children under a certain age (generally, 18 years for boys and 21 years for girls) cannot depart Egypt without the permission of the father. If the child’s name indicates an Egyptian father, even if the child is traveling on an U.S. passport, Egyptian Immigration officials require "explicit" permission from the father before permitting departure. At times, when the name is Egyptian, a mother and child going to the United States for an ordinary visit, Egyptian authorities can require the father to go the airport to give his permission to immigration officials. In contrast, if the child’s name is not noticeably Egyptian, and the passport does not indicate otherwise, an American citizen mother and child could depart without airport officials questioning citizenship or requesting the father's approval.
Travel Restrictions (child) Egyptian Immigration Officials allow a father to put travel a "hold" on his wife and/or children. This requires no court order or legal determination. A simple administrative procedure, which takes ten days to two weeks to institute, authorizes a "blacklist" entry that expires after six months if not renewed. However, this entry can be extended "indefinitely" by the father or by anyone acting on a father’s power of attorney.
Travel Restrictions (wife) An Egyptian wife requires the permission of her Egyptian husband to obtain a passport and depart the county. Although this law also extends to a non-Egyptian wife, we are not aware of any cases where a U.S. citizen wife with a U.S. passport was prohibited by her Egyptian husband from departing. Immigration authorities have not asked an American woman, married to an Egyptian, to produce permission from her husband.
posted
I feel for this lady.... More so than you could all imagine..... I lived in USA for 7 years and I married there, I had a son, I found out my husband was up to no good (drink, drugs, women) so one day I had had enough I heard all the proises time and time again (it won't happen again, I love only you, I will stop) Well it never stopped, it went on and on. One day I was at work and I just left out of my job at 1pm, went home, packed 2 suit cases, put them in the back of my jeep, picked up my son from the child minders, phoned my mum in England, drove to the airport, left my car in the car park, got on a plane to the UK and came home with my son, he was 3 at the time .... He is 14 now and he has had a better life with my family to love and care for him than his natural father could ever have provided as he was never home ... I have re-married and my new husband is more of a father to my son than his natural one was, things will work out, do what's best for you and your child as that's what counts in this life, he will not change. good luck let us know how you get on.
Posts: 42 | From: isle of man uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
dear Amina, im so sorry for all this.... have tryed on my sky that the majority of egyptiian men are so : only liar !!!!! Its not beauifull tell this but is so. I think that egyptian men find pleasure to make collection of girls,they feel theyself more man to make this. And so, another bad love story...also this with arabic men....what we can think??????? I hope for this girl that all will go well, that also you can forget all this soon. me too i have had abad story with egyptian man...all stories are so...always bad....on 100 love story with egyptian men only 2 are a good love story....I start to think, as somebody have told, that much of they, have insane head...is not possible. yes,also in europe there are bad love story but nobody men arrive at this point,not tell lies at this way,not are false at this way..... Posts: 33 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Much egyptian men are always very angry when we tell this things but is useless to hide the realty : these are true story, the majority of marriage with egytian men finish so. I know only that we are stupid, we we allow to enchant us strange give charm that they has,and after always so, always big problems,especially if there are children. When i have phoned in my emabassy for information on marriage, they have made of all for to discourage the marriage, for make understand me all problems for after,but I went on.... now I can tell that I have been very fortunate for haven't make marriage, that my love story is ended before marriage. Posts: 33 | Registered: Feb 2004
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There are thousands of cases where the foreign woman leaves the country with her child, and never comes back. The child born in Egypt BUT the woman has the child on her foreign passport.
Apparently the husband has to sue for 'haddana' and 'Ta3aa' in Egypt, and IF they find her in her country... He may obtain 7adana when the child is 10.. or so. Provided that the country in which the foreign wife has flown to, COOPERATES.
It is very complicated to get the child back when this situation happens. It almsot calls for a re-kidnapping in some cases..
If the foreign woman steps foot in Egypt again with her child, after having abducted the child already,...she still has the right to the 'haddana' inside Egypt if the court has not issued a judgement that she was not a fit mother..
At that point and time, if she tries to leave again with the child, she could be arrested at the customs on her way out IF the husband issues the proper legal document against her leaving the country with his child, without his permission, after he has an Egyptian passport issued for the child proving to the authorities the nationality of the child, before she tries to leave again with her child on her foreign passport.
In Amina's case, I presume that nothing was issued against her, so she could be in Geneva with her child now.
In the case of an Egyptian woman leaving the country only with the permission of her husband, as far as my knowledge goes this has changed in 2001 ( not sure of this date)...An Egyptian woman does not need the permission of her husband to leave the country anymore, about the passport being issued in Egypt with the permission of the husband, that could be still valid - I do not know - but guess what, tons of Egyptian women that live outside Egypt get their Egyptian passport renewed, from an Egyptian Enmbassy abroad without a husband's signature..go in and out of Egypt without any husband's permission!
AND most Egyptian Embassies DISCOURAGE foreigners to marry an Egyptian they met on the internet, or in a resort by the way.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: [b] Assalamu alaykum Monica
The comments were about taking a child of an Egyptian out ot the country without persmission. if the child has an Egyptian passport.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 14 August 2004).]
posted
are always difficolt these situations...and very bad... I not understand why is so difficolt have a normal life with arabic men....
Posts: 33 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Monica: AND most Egyptian Embassies DISCOURAGE foreigners to marry an Egyptian they met on the internet, or in a resort by the way.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 14 August 2004).]
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Monica: AND most Egyptian Embassies DISCOURAGE foreigners to marry an Egyptian they met on the internet, or in a resort by the way.
Monica, are you aware that even foreign embassies try to talk their nationals out of marriage to any Egyptian - regardless of how they met like "leave your fingers away from them - different culture, different mentality, it only brings problems" kind of style?
[This message has been edited by Tigerlily (edited 14 August 2004).]
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I want to tell you all that I am in Geneva with my daughter! Thank you so much for all your moral support. We had no problems leaving the country as we both have Swiss passports. I was born in Switzerland (my father is Lebanese, my mother Swiss) and also my daughter was born in Switzerland as by the time of her birth my husband spent a few month there at a hospital as a visiting assistant professor. My brother who is a lawyer told me that as we never had a civil marriage (we only married in mosque) I am not considered legally married according to Swiss authorities and considering the fact that my husband is still married to his first wife, and they had a civil marriage, this is bigamy in Switzerland. This means that as a Swiss I am single, as a muslim I am married. Yesterday I did not decide to confront my husband as I was too afraid because when he is under stress he tends to have violent outbursts. He called me today and it really took me courage to talk to him. He admitted everything, but said he was only in different chatrooms to get people into islam and make them convert so they would not have to die as sinners. He said he was successful in doing so with nearly 40 women (why no men?) and that it was not his fault if they fell in love with him. He had the guts to tell me that when these women became "online" muslims (they said the Shahada online) they suddenly wanted to have cyber sex with him, asked him for marriage and that some did even travel to Alexandria to meet him. And if he refused to marry or meet them they would talk bad about him in the chatroom. He admitted he met some women in real but never had sex as they were fat and unattractive Americans and that he didn't like American women anyway. And yes, he met some European women too, but only had oral sex and this was not real sex anyway so this does not mean he cheated on me. I did not believe one word, and the hardest thing to believe was that he gave his real identity in the chatroom and asked women to review his professional website with his photo, work place and telephone number. Now I ask myself whether all these emergencies where he had to rush to the hospital at night were only excuses to get online in his office at the hospital or to meet someone who had travelled to Alex to see him. It is also hard to believe that women really fall in love online and let themselves talk into something serious like reciting the shahada. This should only be done in a mosque and it has to be a decision of the heart and not because they do it out of love for an Egyptian surgeon who has hyptotized them with false promises of his undying love. And why are women so stupid and believe an online marriage is valid? Just because a muslim says it is valid according to Islam? I am a muslim too and I know our laws and online marriage is not a valid marriage. I don't want to see that man again in my life and I doubt that I will ever travel to Egypt again. And I am glad that he cannot travel to Switzerland without an invitation letter. I only regret his future "victims". How could I have been so blind during the last 3 years? Again, thank you for all your support, and if you know that some of your female friends are in the yahoo chat, warn them about him. He has many ID's, but he always tells everybody that he is a surgeon and asks them to review his website.
posted
Amina, I am so glad you are safe and thanks for letting us know. I am sorry you had to find out the way you did and hope you can put this behind you and look to the future for you and your daughter.
quote:Originally posted by Amina: Hello everybody,
I want to tell you all that I am in Geneva with my daughter! Thank you so much for all your moral support. We had no problems leaving the country as we both have Swiss passports. I was born in Switzerland (my father is Lebanese, my mother Swiss) and also my daughter was born in Switzerland as by the time of her birth my husband spent a few month there at a hospital as a visiting assistant professor. My brother who is a lawyer told me that as we never had a civil marriage (we only married in mosque) I am not considered legally married according to Swiss authorities and considering the fact that my husband is still married to his first wife, and they had a civil marriage, this is bigamy in Switzerland. This means that as a Swiss I am single, as a muslim I am married. Yesterday I did not decide to confront my husband as I was too afraid because when he is under stress he tends to have violent outbursts. He called me today and it really took me courage to talk to him. He admitted everything, but said he was only in different chatrooms to get people into islam and make them convert so they would not have to die as sinners. He said he was successful in doing so with nearly 40 women (why no men?) and that it was not his fault if they fell in love with him. He had the guts to tell me that when these women became "online" muslims (they said the Shahada online) they suddenly wanted to have cyber sex with him, asked him for marriage and that some did even travel to Alexandria to meet him. And if he refused to marry or meet them they would talk bad about him in the chatroom. He admitted he met some women in real but never had sex as they were fat and unattractive Americans and that he didn't like American women anyway. And yes, he met some European women too, but only had oral sex and this was not real sex anyway so this does not mean he cheated on me. I did not believe one word, and the hardest thing to believe was that he gave his real identity in the chatroom and asked women to review his professional website with his photo, work place and telephone number. Now I ask myself whether all these emergencies where he had to rush to the hospital at night were only excuses to get online in his office at the hospital or to meet someone who had travelled to Alex to see him. It is also hard to believe that women really fall in love online and let themselves talk into something serious like reciting the shahada. This should only be done in a mosque and it has to be a decision of the heart and not because they do it out of love for an Egyptian surgeon who has hyptotized them with false promises of his undying love. And why are women so stupid and believe an online marriage is valid? Just because a muslim says it is valid according to Islam? I am a muslim too and I know our laws and online marriage is not a valid marriage. I don't want to see that man again in my life and I doubt that I will ever travel to Egypt again. And I am glad that he cannot travel to Switzerland without an invitation letter. I only regret his future "victims". How could I have been so blind during the last 3 years? Again, thank you for all your support, and if you know that some of your female friends are in the yahoo chat, warn them about him. He has many ID's, but he always tells everybody that he is a surgeon and asks them to review his website.
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