quote:

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Originally posted by Amina:
Hello everybody,

I want to tell you all that I am in Geneva with my daughter! Thank you so much for all your moral support. We had no problems leaving the country as we both have Swiss passports. I was born in Switzerland (my father is Lebanese, my mother Swiss) and also my daughter was born in Switzerland as by the time of her birth my husband spent a few month there at a hospital as a visiting assistant professor. My brother who is a lawyer told me that as we never had a civil marriage (we only married in mosque) I am not considered legally married according to Swiss authorities and considering the fact that my husband is still married to his first wife, and they had a civil marriage, this is bigamy in Switzerland. This means that as a Swiss I am single, as a muslim I am married. Yesterday I did not decide to confront my husband as I was too afraid because when he is under stress he tends to have violent outbursts. He called me today and it really took me courage to talk to him. He admitted everything, but said he was only in different chatrooms to get people into islam and make them convert so they would not have to die as sinners. He said he was successful in doing so with nearly 40 women (why no men?) and that it was not his fault if they fell in love with him. He had the guts to tell me that when these women became "online" muslims (they said the Shahada online) they suddenly wanted to have cyber sex with him, asked him for marriage and that some did even travel to Alexandria to meet him. And if he refused to marry or meet them they would talk bad about him in the chatroom. He admitted he met some women in real but never had sex as they were fat and unattractive Americans and that he didn't like American women anyway. And yes, he met some European women too, but only had oral sex and this was not real sex anyway so this does not mean he cheated on me. I did not believe one word, and the hardest thing to believe was that he gave his real identity in the chatroom and asked women to review his professional website with his photo, work place and telephone number.
Now I ask myself whether all these emergencies where he had to rush to the hospital at night were only excuses to get online in his office at the hospital or to meet someone who had travelled to Alex to see him. It is also hard to believe that women really fall in love online and let themselves talk into something serious like reciting the shahada. This should only be done in a mosque and it has to be a decision of the heart and not because they do it out of love for an Egyptian surgeon who has hyptotized them with false promises of his undying love. And why are women so stupid and believe an online marriage is valid? Just because a muslim says it is valid according to Islam? I am a muslim too and I know our laws and online marriage is not a valid marriage.
I don't want to see that man again in my life and I doubt that I will ever travel to Egypt again. And I am glad that he cannot travel to Switzerland without an invitation letter. I only regret his future "victims". How could I have been so blind during the last 3 years?
Again, thank you for all your support, and if you know that some of your female friends are in the yahoo chat, warn them about him. He has many ID's, but he always tells everybody that he is a surgeon and asks them to review his website.

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Originally posted by asiaq:
He is sick an ned help !!
I wish you all the best

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How did you arrive at yor diagnosis? Easy claim and easy way out. He could have told the truth. Did not you read that he lied when he even talked to Amina? Is lying a disease, shall I ask?

Amina, nice to hear you are safe.

I don't understand the mentality of the men egiptian: if you have a good wife, a good family with children, why make so the stupid,to send awry a marriage for to make the stupid? what it means to have only so many women for 1 time?

Very glad to hear you are safe and all the best for the future for you and your child.

I only have a question if you don't mind:

What are you going to tell your daughter about her dad??

I suggest you spare her the ugliness...only my humble opinion...Psychologically speaking, it will only harm the child if you tell how mean the dad was.

I was thinking more in the frame of Not telling her how mean he was, and how he neglected her.. so that later in life she does not feel sorry for herself for being not loved/rejected by one of her parents..
My point: her psychological well being!!

I hope you are both well...

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Originally posted by Amina:
Monica, what shall I tell her about him?
She is only 2 years old and doesn't know him well. He left in the morning when she was still sleeping and never came home before 11 p.m. He hardly spent any time with her. His only day off was Friday which he spent with his three children from his first wife. I don't think she will miss what she never had.

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Originally posted by Monica:
Amina..

A Muslim man can have more than one wife but under certain circumstances only, and provided that he is JUST to all.

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Monica, No , there is no certain circumstances. It is an open lincense.

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Originally posted by Amina:
Monica, when I met him at a medical congress 3 years ago
and fell in love I knew he was married. His 1st wife told me that there was no more love between them but that she did not want a divorce for the sake of their children. As they are a very wealthy and respected family she feared she might lose her dignity in front of neighbors and friends in case of a divorce. Being a muslim myself I could understand her - even if I grew up in Europe. She agreed that I'd be the second wife, so she could keep her dignity. I get along with his 1st wife, so there is no problem. We made a contract, though, that he is not allowed to marry a third wife. If he had the wish to do so, I would divorce.

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Amina; I dont understand !!!why you think that he is not allowed to marry a third wife< are you the seal of wives ??? you married him as a a man who allready have one wife< and if he got married again< his new wife will marry a man who is allready married to 2 other wives !!!!
why can you do something and deny it for someone else ?? just a question <
oh and by the way < I hope wish you good luck , and your poor little doughter.

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Originally posted by Monica:
Amina, I know what you are talking about.. an absent father or emotionally distant father is very hard on children.. When they grow up they feel they were rejected..

I was thinking more in the frame of Not telling her how mean he was, and how he neglected her.. so that later in life she does not feel sorry for herself for being not loved/rejected by one of her parents..
My point: her psychological well being!!

I hope you are both well...

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Actually Monica, I disagree with your statement. it is very hard on children when they see and remember the parent. If the daughter did not know her father and does not remember, it won't affect her that much at all. As long as she is surrounded wit love, compassion, and understanding by her mother and family, she won't be hurt at all. If she grew up with the cheating dad she would have been hurt more. What you do not know you do not feel rejected for. She would be worse off growing up with him, when he is always absent even on his days off, she would have felt jealousy later. Then she would have felt rejected. It is not a good idea to bring up a daughter with such a cheat and a liar anyway, not a good male role model.

I actually believe in such cases when divorces occur on a disagreement between parents, kids should know both sides of the story: facts not bickering. The kids should be given an opportunity to observe each parent, whether living or visiting, and their interaction for kids to decide for themselves. This man is not going to change, too late!!!!!!!!!! if the girl saw him, she would have known his true nature, and I do not think she would ahve had hard feelings for herself but for her mother - yes. When she is old enough to handle the details, Amina may tell the details. She 'd better know the truth than she would be searching for it. It is more painful that way. But Amina would nto be able to hide it. At one point in time her daughter will ask her about what "happened to daddy". It is better to lay out the facts. Who knows, her daughter could be very thankful to Amina for making this decision, but for her daughter to make that decision, she needs the truth and know both parents to a certain extent at least.

However, when one of the parents has "violent outbursts", not sure what is the best way, I am talking more about an average case.

in this case the man was described by his won wife that wanted a divorce as a good husband and a decent loving man,
in your case, it is different, you don’t approve his behavior , and see it as disgusting, ....
enough said , I don’t want to preach to you, while I have not knowledge , and don’t know the full details, you are not dealing with only the laws or traditions, here, you are dealing with something much bigger,
For God sakes, get away from this man < but don’t take away his daughter, he could be a horrible man< the worst husband ever, be he could still be a good father

Please check Suret Alnesaa. V2 and V3.
That goes to prove that a Muslim is only allowed to marry more than one
WIDOWED woman and NOT just a Woman

[And if you fear that you cannot act justly towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.] (Quran 4:3)

The Muslim husband has to 'provide' the same type of housing, and by PROVIDING it is meant with HIS OWN MONEY not with the second/etc wife's financial means, same food, spend his days equally between all of them, notice this issue: if a husband can't be with one of his wives 'intimately' - for any which reason - then automatically, he is not being JUST to her by being so, with the other the next day - he must provide the exact same thing to all.

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Originally posted by welsafty:
Monica, No , there is no certain circumstances. It is an open lincense.

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Originally posted by Monica:

Please notice the following: Marring more than one woman is only allowed under the circumstances mentioned in the Sura i.e 1-A widow with orphans 2-Fearing injustice towards the orphans.

Please check Suret Alnesaa. V2 and V3.
That goes to prove that a Muslim is only allowed to marry more than one
WIDOWED woman and NOT just a Woman

[And if you fear that you cannot act justly towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.] (Quran 4:3)

The Muslim husband has to 'provide' the same type of housing, and by PROVIDING it is meant with HIS OWN MONEY not with the second/etc wife's financial means, same food, spend his days equally between all of them, notice this issue: if a husband can't be with one of his wives 'intimately' - for any which reason - then automatically, he is not being JUST to her by being so, with the other the next day - he must provide the exact same thing to all.

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 14 August 2004).]

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Originally posted by welsafty:
[
since you are Muslim and I like to believe that you are trying to be a good one , I don’t think you should have abandon you husband no matter how big of an asswhole he is, you are still his wife, and you should have never abandoned

[This message has been edited by welsafty (edited 14 August 2004).][/B]

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No woman deserves such an abuse and emotional torture that Amina went through. No need to blame her now especially when she is in shock and lecture that she is not a good Muslim. She deserves better in her life than this, let's not justify such a a man by saying "he is till your husband". Ask yourself "Is he a good muslim?" Why not to shoot your arrows at that man instead? he failed to fulfill his duties as a husband, father, and a muslim, friend, you name it...If he is sick, he is not a little child, it is his responsibility too. he cannot lie and turn his wife into a suffering creature who is traumatized by his night gateawys before he can "recover" form his "perpetual lying disease", traumitize the child, break trust and whatever there was which was called 'family". if he wants to reform, he needs to prove it to Amina by his actions. Why should she suffer and end up in a shrink office herself just to fulfill "being a good wife" thingy? She was a good wife. She was raising her daugher while her husband was fooling around.

PLEASEEE no such lectures. Let's not flip an argument from the one who is truly to blame for such a traumatic sequence of events. It is her personal choice. if she is not a "good muslim wife", that will be decided not by you, not by me, or anybody else but God. So let's just skip lecturing and judging all together, but show compassion to all parties involved

I do hope her daughter does know her father and understand his true nature herself. But please do not blame Amina. This woman has been through hell. If

The Hadith didn’t tell us anything about being single, wedged or divorced

And if a man marry a woman because she is wealthy ( which even if we thought that that was not manly, it is still allowed . if a man have to wives, and one of the wives are wealthy and the other one isn’t. then the man is still obligated to be just to what he gives each of them , and in what he can PROVIDE himself, down to the penny, even down to how much time he spends with either one,
so lets assume that a man is in this situation, ( regardless of the reason for him marrying the wealthy woman) nothing that says both of his wives have to live in the same standard, but the rule is based on what he puts into each house from money , time, and attention, he cannot say my first wife is poor and the second one is wealthy , so I will put more into the poor house to make them both equal, they ware not equal when he married both of them, but they have to be equal in what they get from him .

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:

The Muslim husband has to 'provide' the same type of housing, and by PROVIDING it is meant with HIS OWN MONEY not with the second/etc wife's financial means, same food, spend his days equally between all of them, notice this issue: if a husband can't be with one of his wives 'intimately' - for any which reason - then automatically, he is not being JUST to her by being so, with the other the next day - he must provide the exact same thing to all.

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Originally posted by welsafty:
In habit , the prophet (PBUH) said:
“a woman is wed for one four reasons, he beauty, her wealth, her social background, and her religion, so get the one with religion for your hands to be blessed"

[b]The Hadith didn’t tell us anything about being single, wedged or divorced

And if a man marry a woman because she is wealthy ( which even if we thought that that was not manly, it is still allowed . if a man have to wives, and one of the wives are wealthy and the other one isn’t. then the man is still obligated to be just to what he gives each of them , and in what he can PROVIDE himself, down to the penny, even down to how much time he spends with either one,
so lets assume that a man is in this situation, ( regardless of the reason for him marrying the wealthy woman) nothing that says both of his wives have to live in the same standard, but the rule is based on what he puts into each house from money , time, and attention, he cannot say my first wife is poor and the second one is wealthy , so I will put more into the poor house to make them both equal, they ware not equal when he married both of them, but they have to be equal in what they get from him .

[/B]

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May I ask you a question? Have you ever tried to think for yourself and apply some common sense instead of following a manual in life?

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Originally posted by katrina:

OH PLEAAASEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Maybe we should remember the case of a Saudi TV reporter whose husband beat the crap out of her and her story was all over BBC. She should have been "a good muslim wife" too and take the hell from him, should not she?

No woman deserves such an abuse and emotional torture that Amina went through. No need to blame her now especially when she is in shock and lecture that she is not a good Muslim. She deserves better in her life than this, let's not justify such a a man by saying "he is till your husband". Ask yourself "Is he a good muslim?" Why not to shoot your arrows at that man instead? he failed to fulfill his duties as a husband, father, and a muslim, friend, you name it...If he is sick, he is not a little child, it is his responsibility too. he cannot lie and turn his wife into a suffering creature who is traumatized by his night gateawys before he can "recover" form his "perpetual lying disease", traumitize the child, break trust and whatever there was which was called 'family". if he wants to reform, he needs to prove it to Amina by his actions. Why should she suffer and end up in a shrink office herself just to fulfill "being a good wife" thingy? She was a good wife. She was raising her daugher while her husband was fooling around.

PLEASEEE no such lectures. Let's not flip an argument from the one who is truly to blame for such a traumatic sequence of events. It is her personal choice. if she is not a "good muslim wife", that will be decided not by you, not by me, or anybody else but God. So let's just skip lecturing and judging all together, but show compassion to all parties involved

I do hope her daughter does know her father and understand his true nature herself. But please do not blame Amina. This woman has been through hell. If

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Originally posted by katrina:
welsafty,

May I ask you a question? Have you ever tried to think for yourself and apply some common sense instead of following a manual in life?

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 14 August 2004).]

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Let's not put your words into my mouth. I said nothing about Islam, so let's not read into more than I said. I specifically said that your advice and interpretation were ill. I would not take you as an ultimate source for me to understand the complex nature of any religion including Islam. People offer interpretations. Who said you know it best? I mentioned nothing about Islam. No need to feel so insecure every time you read some opinion adn interpret right away as an attack on Islam when it was not even intended as such. so it is clear.

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Originally posted by welsafty:
what manual are you talking about?

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Originally posted by katrina:
welsafty:

Let's not put your words into my mouth. I said nothing about Islam, so let's not read into more than I said. I specifically said that your advice and interpretation were ill. I would not take you as an ultimate source for me to understand the complex nature of any religion including Islam. People offer interpretations. Who said you know it best? I mentioned nothing about Islam. so it is clear.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 14 August 2004).]

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As I said if you also read what I wrote you would have found that I was describing how I responded to the whole issue while I was reading it, little by little, I said , in the beginning I was trying to find an excuse for his Odd behavior, and the more I found out, the more I found it hard to find excuses, to the point that I realized that there is no possible excuses for his behaviors, and there is no way anyone can defend him, and this my friend .. is since, I cannot judge before I get the facts, and while you get the facts your prospective changes, the more you learn the more your you are able to pass judgment, I don’t follow before applying since, and this was the perfect example.

what I have suggested to Amina was not to accept his sickness and deal with it, not I agreed that no one can live with this man or even try to change him because he will always find an excuse for himself, to do whatever he was doing Just because he is a sick bastard, Amina shouldn’t be, and if he is taking religion as an excuse to follow his daemons, she should use her religion to get out of the situation, unharmed < and I also said that Islam is on her side, and unlike laws, this time, also the law is on her side, and she should follow the correct channels to get divorced,
Amena Never said he was and abusive husband < and she didn’t complain from mistreatment, never said that he was a bad father, No she said he spends allot of time with his kids,
She just found out one day that she is married to a sick man who is nothing but decent. So the whole abuse thing should have never been mentioned in the first place
and when you mentioned it (for know apparent reason) I thought, mmm this is where Katrina wants to take this issue , and asked you not to, because it is not the time for it

BUT

What is wrong with women????????
why do they fall into the trap and let a sicko manipulate them?
desperate for a man??
desperate for an Egyptian man?
desperate for a doctor?: YES that's the one

They are definitely disturbed those who fall for that scenario...and convert and send nude pics and all that BS he makes them do in the name of Islam..

I guess it is universal but yes absolutely true, women in Egypt that are married to a succefull doctor/surgeon are in a very prestigious bracket. And I suspect that this is why his first wife would not divorce..so silly but true..
My conclusion..
too many women are real TWITS...

SEE..what I do not comprehend at all is this:
he is fooling around all over the place..he prefers his other children..he was never home...he cheated with strangers... and yet..he wants you back??? tab for what??????
next time ask him WHY DOES HE WANT YOU???? probably because YOU left him??

At least you don't have to go through the legalities of a divorce...;0

Come visit us on the other forum if you wish http://www.youregypt.com..

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Originally posted by Amina:
Monica, yes, he feels he has a lot of power being a surgeon. When he courted me 3 years ago and my intuition told me "run as far as you can" he said "Look at me, I am good looking and I am a successful surgeon, lots of women are after me but I only want you!" I should have run then but I didn't. I was not attracted by him being a surgeon, I had my own successful career in Switzerland in internal medicine, it was that we had too many things in common - but now I ask myself whether we really had anything in common at all. I was very much in love with him them, too much to listen to my intuition. Also, my father who is a surgeon himself was very fond of him - they had worked together in Geneva for a short time. So I thought my intuitions might be wrong. Actually I never had complaints about him during our marriage, except that he was hardly ever at home due to too much work and that he preferred his children from his first marriage over our daughter. Yes, and sometimes he had violent outbreaks when he was under stress, screaming and throwing things against the wall.
But not in my wildest dreams would I have expected what he was doing at night online. He keeps on calling me several times a day coming up with all kinds of excuses, blaming everything on the women who chatted with him, telling me they were all whores and cheap sluts and that he wanted them to be muslims to stop them being chatroom whores. Some of these women he met in reality after he had married them online. He described them as old, fat and ugly. He said he had not wanted them to come, but suddenly they showed up in Alexandria and kept on calling him from their hotels, and thus he was forced to meet them. Yes, he had given to all of them his real identity, his professional website with his phone number and work place, they all knew where he could be found. I don't know why it is that woman are crazy for doctors. I have always noticed at the hospital where I worked in Switzerland how nurses and medical technical assistants were running after my male colleagues. I think it is not much different in Egypt, that's why he tells everybody in the chatroom that he is a surgeon. For some women doctors are "Gods in white" I guess. Now he noticed that people in the chatroom are talking about him, and he said some Jewish whores were telling lies about him. I asked him not to call anymore because I can't listen to all that garbage anymore.

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Why do women believe men on the internet after a short few conversations and book their flights and fly?

..he is a stranger after all...

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Originally posted by ghaniyaha:
I registered to this forum when I read in yahoo chat "beware of surgeon from Alexandria" and this website address was given. All alarms went up because I have been chatting with Mohammed G. since short time. I was upset what I read because I thought he was the man I had been looking for so long. And he told me I was the only one he ever loved. He swore we would be married soon and start a family. I already have booked my flight ticket for Alexandria. I asked him if it was true what women here say about him and he said that all women he ever turned down are only seeking revenge now and that his love belongs to me. I don't believe him anymore. Why did he do that?

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Originally posted by ghaniyaha:
I registered to this forum when I read in yahoo chat "beware of surgeon from Alexandria" and this website address was given. All alarms went up because I have been chatting with Mohammed G. since short time. I was upset what I read because I thought he was the man I had been looking for so long. And he told me I was the only one he ever loved. He swore we would be married soon and start a family. I already have booked my flight ticket for Alexandria. I asked him if it was true what women here say about him and he said that all women he ever turned down are only seeking revenge now and that his love belongs to me. I don't believe him anymore. Why did he do that?

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Originally posted by Carleen:
I don't think he's sick at all - He's just a deceitful womanizer who's having fun playing with women's emotions.

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I AGREE. It seems to me that when low class does these things, they are automaticaly gigolos (whether for money or not), when high class does this, then they get an immunity for "sickness" and need a therapy. While both types are simply indecent men who know what they are doing.

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Originally posted by katrina:
I AGREE. It seems to me that when low class does these things, they are automaticaly gigolos (whether for money or not), when high class does this, then they get an immunity for "sickness" and need a therapy. While both types are simply indecent men who know what they are doing.

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Hey, excellent point!! I think it's a waste of time to try to excuse *any* infidelity. It's all a *choice* that some men *enjoy* making over & over. Period.

AND, it think this is a good example disproving the pathetic theory that men cheat because they "can't find what they need at home." Heck, this b*stard had TWO homes!!

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Originally posted by Carleen:
I don't think he's sick at all - He's just a deceitful womanizer who's having fun playing with women's emotions.

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Originally posted by welsafty:
and this is SICK

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Uh no, it's not. It's perverted, but not sick.

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Originally posted by katrina:
I AGREE. It seems to me that when low class does these things, they are automaticaly gigolos (whether for money or not), when high class does this, then they get an immunity for "sickness" and need a therapy. While both types are simply indecent men who know what they are doing.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 15 August 2004).]

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Gigolos do it for gift an money

He do it to get wemen to convert to Islam an mix it wet sex A new guru

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Originally posted by Carleen:
Uh no, it's not. It's perverted, but not sick.

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Originally posted by Amina:
Now I was e-mailed by a woman who first had chatroom contact with my husband 3 years ago, just a few weeks after I met him first. Also to her he had promised marriage. I wonder whether I was to meet him only to uncover him now before he hurts more women? Was this my lesson in life?

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No Amina it was not your lesson. You simply did not know and made a decision based on what you knew back then. Nobody deserves this. There is no lesson in this. For him yes, not for you. You have done the right thing given what you know now. Give yourself a good credit for this. You are a brave woman who is capable of feeling and making tough choices when you do know the truth. Remember your trusting heart is not a sin, it could be a curse, but it is a great virtue.

I promise you, that man will get a little lesson he will NEVER forget!

Cheers!!!

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Originally posted by Amina:
Now I was e-mailed by a woman who first had chatroom contact with my husband 3 years ago, just a few weeks after I met him first. Also to her he had promised marriage. I wonder whether I was to meet him only to uncover him now before he hurts more women? Was this my lesson in life?

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