Well all those (Absolutely politically correct descriptions) are somehow true, and I wouldn’t even try to deny it, we all read the post about MR MG the surgeon from Alexandra, ( of course the hoist topic ever hit the waves the infamous :
Does anyone chat with a doctor from Alexandria? post),
The black list black list for egyptian man in hurghada?
Holiday romance turned soure Question for egyptian women and When it ended a love......
Egyptian men - Scam artists pictures-of interest to women.
The excuse egyptian man use for being unfaithful to women
Need Advice about my Egyptian Guy story!
Prince or Frog?
how long will egyptian man pretend..??
American Gal In Love W/ Egyptian Man
Topic: Words of Wisdom Needed
Orfi, ORFI,

and the list goes on and on

But my concern is more related to all those description based on romance, and the relation between HIM ( the BAD Egyptian Guy and his POOR foreign lady).

Why is it that this Man is getting all this bad publicity, I don’t know, but I know one thing, Egyptian men deserve nothing of all that, and I am speaking out of experience , I AM ONE

What makes an Egyptian man so desirable by foreign ladies?
It is very simple, it not his handsome boyish looks, his killer Bodds, his fantastic bezique, or his extreme masculinity (some will disagree with me on that) , it is simply his hart and his passion,
Egyptian man regardless of his real profession or his social background is still descendant from this farmer who planted this soil for ions, and have developed a very strong bond to the land he is living on, for some this attachment have been materialized in his property, his money, his women, his house, and mostly HIS family, and when you are talking about a culture that have the family as the most valuable asset a man could have, and he would put all his power into enriching this family and keep it as long as possible, ( of course with the accessional sellout who is welling to jump out of the boat at the first sign of trouble, or those who cant wait to leave everything behind), aided with general modesty and sometimes good manners, and even religious tendency, makes this EGYPTIAN guy the perfect family man , who is well know to be more faithful to his family that many other non Egyptian men, and would give up his life for this family of his, plus when it to commitment, an Egyptian man would not hesitate to get married and settle down with the right person, not because he is an angle , but because he have been programmed to seek a stable family lifestyle from the Egyptian culture itself.

Why Egyptian man loves foreign girls?
Ask any Egyptian woman and you will find no answer, although the answer is in her,
Every culture has its merits and demerits in its women, general characteristics that cannot be mistaken although exceptions exist, for example ( only for the sake of the argument and NOT out of experience):
Japanese, Korean, and Chinese women tend to be more obedient, and easily adjust to their husbands habits, and not every man likes that of course.
Germen women, are very organized, determined, and are capable of running a house like a clock.
British women are very faithful, traditional, and a man can almost expect what she is going to do next, Latin women are hot, passionate and extremely jalousie, and sometimes their outbursts are unpredictable.
American women are independent, librated, adventurous.
All of them are nice, gentile, funny , romantic, cheerful, compassionat, lovely, pretty , sweet, adorable, and to die for.

Before any one get mad at me for saying that I remind you that all those characteristics war made only for the sake of the argument, and the reason that this argument was even brought up, is because of the Egyptian man of course (our main subject), who would prefer a foreign girl to an Egyptian one, every Egyptian man have his reasons of course, but still, there is a common reason for all of them, that is the Egyptian guy found something in a foreign women that he could have not found in an Egyptian one.

Those of you who have lived in Egypt long enough may have notices the tremendous social changes that is happening almost daily and how hard it became for an Egyptian couple to get married, customs and traditions that demands complete economical readiness, regardless of the actual capabilities, laws that punishes the man for divorce by burdening him with eternal alimony, and the loss of his residency, marriage have been transformed lately into a burdening financial constitution, not a bondage between a man and a woman, and some women and men are looking at it only from this view, with the growing competition between pears amongst Egyptian females, they started demanding more and more, because the more they get , the more they worth

Once an Egyptian friend of mine, told me “I will never waste a minute of my life on an Egyptian woman” and his reason was astonishing (all Egyptian girls will hate that), he said “they are arrogant, demanding, needy, materialistic, and will give you no love unless they give her a lot of "something" in advance, they demand the huge wedding, and they don’t care for the honeymoon, she will ask you to sell your car to buy her a 2 carats diamond ring, she will use your kids to control you . She will nag, and always complain about you failure to advance in your career even if you are the prime minister, and she will always try to look as if she just accepted to marry a frog who refused to turn into a prince, and finally when you die, she will not drop a tear being so afraid to ruin her makeup)

When an Egyptian couple decides to get married and the in-laws start burdening the Egyptian guy with a lot demands that could be very hard for him, the girl’s defense is (instead of making it easy for him) “isn’t that how much I worth to you “or “this is what my cousin got when she was getting married and I am not less than her”

It is a very DARK picture of reality, but nether less, it have some truth in it, and for most Egyptian guys, even those who have never been in this situation, they still know that that is a very big possibility ( because of what they see happening around them), and they decide not to invest there emotions and time in a relationship that might drag for years and result in nothing, and suddenly here comes the foreign girl with all her beautiful characteristics, independent, outgoing , truthful, understanding, cheerful, helpful, loving, giving, open minded, and mostly not bound to those useless traditions.

Do the math and you will instantly know what the result would be, the Egyptian woman is out of the picture, and the foreign one in, compare and decide for yourself, why should I be with someone whom I may not know for sure if she is with me because I was the only stupid guy who put up with her ridicules demands, or should I be with someone who is with me only for me, not for anything else??

Why so many forging girls have been hurt by Egyptian guys?

Culture clashes? Probably
Obsession? Could be
Underestimating?
“I’ll make a nice man out of this savage one!! “It does happen
“I’ll teach him the ways of the western man” deny it if you want
“He cannot resist my blue eyes” only when she does have blue eyes and she is an experienced hypnotist
“He is just an edit who is also a good catch”
“I don’t understand his background, but who cares the sex is good”
“I am superior to any Egyptian woman, even him”
“Is he too proud to admit that he loves a forging girl?”
“Was he just playing? Or was it only a holiday romance?”
“Does he think that I am just a foreign slut?”
“he wants a mistress, but not a partner”

I don’t know. You tell me
All input and criticism are welcomed

It is such a great post. Thanks for sharing. Finally there is some truth being told, however it may seem subjective to some.

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Originally posted by katrina:
WOW, welsafty

It is usch a great post. Thanks for sharing. Finally there is some truth being told, however it may seem subjective to some.

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Originally posted by welsafty:
LOL, yes I admit it, but I cant help it it's all about me

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Originally posted by arx:
well, as an egyptian-american, i can tell you that at least here and some other places i've been, almost all foreign women want absolutely nothing to do with a "filthy arab". you have to keep in mind the ones that go to egypt are likely willing to get involved with one. it's a totally different story outside egypt!

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Why do you say such things, Arx?

Welsafty, are you married or intend to get married? What were/are you "after" - an Egyptian or a foreign woman? Just a question from my side, if it's too personal don't answer.

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:

Welsafty, are you married or intend to get married? What were/are you "after" - an Egyptian or a foreign woman? Just a question from my side, if it's too personal don't answer.

Also, thanks for describing me as very organized, determined etc..... Yes its totally true (how do you know?!) but sometimes I am wondering if I am running the household (+ kids) or the household runs me?

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I was very interested in your description of the problems of Egyptian marriage, obviously some of your comments apply more to the well off rather than the poor but is reminds me of a coment my husband made. I asked for a silver wedding ring, I did not want flashy, loads of money etc, I just wanted his ring. I said like an Egyptian girl would wear and he laughed at me at said an Egyptian girl would want gold. I notice with the preparatiosn for weddings these are mainly materlistic rather than emotional or spiritual. I know there was a period in English history where bridegrooms were assesed on their income rather than their personal attributes (read Pride and Prejudice).

One can hope that Egyptian society will likewise realise there is more to a man than his money. And actually starting of together and working towards goals can be more rewarding than having it all on a plate. Many a couple in the West look back on the early days when they had nothing and remark it was better then because there was emotional connection. I don't think there is any perfect way but it does seem a shame that some people can't get married just for economic reasons.

Thanks again for the post most interesting.

The comments made by Welsafty about the avarice of Egyptian women will offend a lot of them but directly re-enforce everything that the men in the family I lived with said. My partner's eldest brother is a guide and is now over thirty but has been saving for years to get a home together and buy the gold for his fiancee. He has had to redecorate the whole house for her not just their apartment. (The shell of which was built with my money).

I keep telling my ex that he should get married (I hope that it would get him out of my hair). He says he would - if I buy the gold. Strangely because he now has all the stuff that he got (lifted) from me the amount of gold that his prospective wives want is huge. They think he is a rich man and as he has a rich 'wife' already then they are going to share in it all. There is no morality there at all. The wilting little flowers propositioned him at every wedding we ever went to with pound signs spinning around in their eyes. Still it is perhaps understandable. If they are not going to get love they might as well get gold.

Arx had a point about Arabs overseas too. I have never considered myself racialyy prejudiced but although I might have become invovled with an Arab in England, I certainly would not have become involved with such a young one. It takes Luxor syndrome (brains falling out of the bum) to do that.

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
It was interesting to note also that both Welsafty and Arx live in America not Egypt.

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Originally posted by akshar:

....I said like an Egyptian girl would wear and he laughed at me at said an Egyptian girl would want gold. I notice with the preparatiosn for weddings these are mainly materlistic rather than emotional or spiritual. I know there was a period in English history where bridegrooms were assesed on their income rather than their personal attributes (read Pride and Prejudice).

One can hope that Egyptian society will likewise realise there is more to a man than his money. And actually starting of together and working towards goals can be more rewarding than having it all on a plate. Many a couple in the West look back on the early days when they had nothing and remark it was better then because there was emotional connection. I don't think there is any perfect way but it does seem a shame that some people can't get married just for economic reasons.

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Akshar, we are all fully aware that there is a long tradition when the subject "Egyptian Marriage" come up.

Its kind of interesting and strange for us foreigners to see how many people get married in Egypt because of wealth and status. But I hope these people do like each other when committing to marriage - at least somehow in the beginning. It all does have more or less a taste of a "business deal".

I also believe the future bride has more and more to say - as times are changing - whether she wants to marry a particular man or not - at least in the higher-income class.

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:

I also believe the future bride has more and more to say - as times are changing - whether she wants to marry a particular man or not - at least in the higher-income class.

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I think that is what happened in UK, gradually people realised that the economics weren't the most important thing and being united as a couple was. Took a while though.

I found this really interesting, and informative. I've been dating an Egyptian guy for 9 months now (I know many of you will say Egyptian men don't date) However he spent years in Europe and is more Western in his thinking than some. Something I always wondered though is why he was not interested in Egyptian women. He has several girls approach him, and always tells me, he says he's never been interested in Egyptian women.

However, maybe it is better not to go into these affairs at all if you are afraid to be hurt, but than, you'll never know how good it feels to be loved (even for a short time) by an Egyptian Man.

Es Salam Aleikoum

You have just described a classic case of a man desiring what he can't have. There are a number of men that wish to marry a woman in a particular social class but can't 'afford' her, and he becomes bitter for whatever reason. However there are literally millions of women with much lower financial demands that he won't even consider for a potential mate. Realistically speaking, only women from higher social classes have these large financial demands you speak of. Namely it's because they come from families that will object to them marrying someone in a lower social standing. And so many Egyptian men and women typically value their families input, where some westerners don't. So he knows that if he marries one of them, they are 10 times unlikely to judge him by his social standards, as cross-class marriages are very common in the west.

The small number of men that take women for their money is a very low class man, fortunate to meet a foreigner who is not judging him for what class he's in. But unfortunately he has taken advantage of it, rather than appreciate it. No decent man request money from women. Men are raised to become the head of the household, as such, he understands his position in the household. And usuall if the wife is making more money than him, he (a real man) will feel a role reversal and this won't be good for his ego, which is why MOST Egyptian men prefer to be the provider.

Some men realize that they will not be able to have a sexual relationship with an Egyptian woman without first getting married. This is why some have resorted to Orfi marriages, as the sexual frustration while waiting to afford marriages has become unbearable.

Or..here is mine:
monica_february_2003@yahoo.com

Thanks!

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Originally posted by Haqikah:
Let's be objective in our generalisations here Welsafty. 99% of Egyptian men, marry EGYPTIAN women. Only a very small percentage marry foreign women, and those that do have nothing to do with their ill feelings towards Egyptian women.

You have just described a classic case of a man desiring what he can't have. There are a number of men that wish to marry a woman in a particular social class but can't 'afford' her, and he becomes bitter for whatever reason. However there are literally millions of women with much lower financial demands that he won't even consider for a potential mate. Realistically speaking, only women from higher social classes have these large financial demands you speak of. Namely it's because they come from families that will object to them marrying someone in a lower social standing. And so many Egyptian men and women typically value their families input, where some westerners don't. So he knows that if he marries one of them, they are 10 times unlikely to judge him by his social standards, as cross-class marriages are very common in the west.

The small number of men that take women for their money is a very low class man, fortunate to meet a foreigner who is not judging him for what class he's in. But unfortunately he has taken advantage of it, rather than appreciate it. No decent man request money from women. Men are raised to become the head of the household, as such, he understands his position in the household. And usuall if the wife is making more money than him, he (a real man) will feel a role reversal and this won't be good for his ego, which is why MOST Egyptian men prefer to be the provider.

Some men realize that they will not be able to have a sexual relationship with an Egyptian woman without first getting married. This is why some have resorted to Orfi marriages, as the sexual frustration while waiting to afford marriages has become unbearable.

2 of my brothers married American women they met in college. Not because they couldn't 'afford' Egyptian wives, they are both well off. They married because they fell spiritually in love. And this is what marriage should be about. Not sex or money. I sincerely wish some of these foreigners that are serious about marriage if Egyptian men attract you, will learn to avoid these gigolo, touristic type that are after your money. Not saying he should be from a wealthy class,because some of them lack morals, but he should at least me a man brought up with good ethics and open-minded to you being more well off than him, for the marriage to work without his ego interfering.

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Originally posted by Haqikah:
Let's be objective in our generalisations here Welsafty. 99% of Egyptian men, marry EGYPTIAN women. Only a very small percentage marry foreign women, and those that do have nothing to do with their ill feelings towards Egyptian women.

You have just described a classic case of a man desiring what he can't have. There are a number of men that wish to marry a woman in a particular social class but can't 'afford' her, and he becomes bitter for whatever reason. However there are literally millions of women with much lower financial demands that he won't even consider for a potential mate. Realistically speaking, only women from higher social classes have these large financial demands you speak of. Namely it's because they come from families that will object to them marrying someone in a lower social standing. And so many Egyptian men and women typically value their families input, where some westerners don't. So he knows that if he marries one of them, they are 10 times unlikely to judge him by his social standards, as cross-class marriages are very common in the west.

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Originally posted by katrina:

Are you proud of such class system? Do you approve it? It reminds pretty much the Indian society with their cast system.
This is 21st century...

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Katrina I did not create the class system, it was in place hundreds of years before my birth. It is nothing similar to the Indian caste system, it is not religious, it's social.

It's not a matter of pride, I don't look down on anyone, by their material wealth. I look at people for their hearts. Even wealthy people are evil, and not all are snobs.

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Originally posted by Haqikah:
Katrina I did not create the class system, it was in place hundreds of years before my birth. It is nothing similar to the Indian caste system, it is not religious, it's social.

It's not a matter of pride, I don't look down on anyone, by their material wealth. I look at people for their hearts. Even wealthy people are evil, and not all are snobs.

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Social or religious -- does not matter. The outcome is similar and this is what matters.

Hundreds years ago... It is not to anyone's benefit to change. Upper class will always defend that as they derive benefits from that, excusing that this is a tradition. Convenient tradition.

Not a personal attack against you at all. You seem to be a very reasonable and open-minded person but....

How does the upper class exactly look into hearts of a lower class person if, say, an Egyptian man would never even talk to a woman say how helps around the house or a man who delivers something to your house except for giving instructions and orders? It is way beyond his class.

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Why is there so much talk of class on this site. I am english.My Egyptian friend has asked me to marry him.We have been seeing each other for a year.I have met all his family and his friends.I love him more than I can tell you.Being older and better off than him is that a recipe for disaster.I dont give a damm.Without doubt he loves me but someone reading my story would think very differently.Personally I do not care about money,nice to have it,but to be in a relationship where you are number one is wonderful and all the money in the world cannot buy that.Give me a tent and a camel in the sahara and I would be happy with him.

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Welcome to the real world. Class does not matter in the Western society relatively. It did in the 19th century. Maybe we should read history books to understand it

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Originally posted by katrina:
Social or religious -- does not matter. The outcome is similar and this is what matters.

Hundreds years ago... It is not to anyone's benefit to change. Upper class will always defend that as they derive benefits from that, excusing that this is a tradition. Convenient tradition.

Not a personal attack against you at all. You seem to be a very reasonable and open-minded person but....

How does the upper class exactly look into hearts of a lower class person if, say, an Egyptian man would never even talk to a woman say how helps around the house or a man who delivers something to your house except for giving instructions and orders? It is way beyond his class.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]

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Hi Katrina, I didn't take it as a personal attack, as anyone that knows me personally knows how heavily involved I'm in to charity and human rights. Although my family is considered wealthy, they have always been open-minded and heavy into charity.

The other people you desribe are snobs, they have them in every country not just Egypt. Some people thik material wealth defines them. I've seen it when I was in college in America- the gated communities with security to keep certain elements out. I've seen people pulled over by the police because they were a certain race and thought they had no business being in a certan neighborhood.

The social classes are worldwide whenever there is a capitalistic economy with limited resources, there will always be more people at the bottom of the economic pool.

It is easy for a westerner to look at developing countries like Egypt and judge their social systems. But you have to look at the bigger global picture. You live in countries very rich in natural resources, so it's easy to move from one class to the next. In Egypt its not the case. Resources are limited, the government is corrupt, national debt is high and foreign countries expoit Egyptian labor because they are willing to work for a fraction of what they would pay for labor in their own country. Then you have people the same people criticizing the social classes, complaining that their jobs are going overseas to less developed countries, threatening their own standard of living.

It's more apparent when you're living in a country with 30% unemployment to see the wide gap between social classes. But again resources are limited. But if more jobs and opportnities are created it could only be in the form of private foreign investment, then what happens as a result, you have people complaining that 'their' resources are going overseas. So no one is ever satisfied. Communism failed worldwide, socialism failed in Egypt, the result is a capitalistic economy that results in social classes.

Maybe one day Egypt will discover a gold mine or an oil field, and our countrymen will be just as well off as the gulf arabs and westerners rich is resources, but until the wealthy are striving to hold on to what they have, and the poor are struggling to get more. It's just the way it is, Katrina. We are not a rich country like the USA, and if the limited wealth was distributed through out the country we would be back in a socialist era, that has already proven unsucessful. I hope you understand.

Don't listen to exaggerations about wealthy people, they are not all snobs. Some of them are very giving, and contribute a great deal to charity. From my own perspective I find the middle class to be more snobbish than the wealthy. Or as we like to call them- the newly wealthy. The type that can't stand the site of poverty because it's a harsh reminder to them of where they came from.

quote:

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Originally posted by Haqikah:
Hi Katrina, I didn't take it as a personal attack, as anyone that knows me personally knows how heavily involved I'm in to charity and human rights. Although my family is considered wealthy, they have always been open-minded and heavy into charity.

The other people you desribe are snobs, they have them in every country not just Egypt. Some people thik material wealth defines them. I've seen it when I was in college in America- the gated communities with security to keep certain elements out. I've seen people pulled over by the police because they were a certain race and thought they had no business being in a certan neighborhood.

The social classes are worldwide whenever there is a capitalistic economy with limited resources, there will always be more people at the bottom of the economic pool.

It is easy for a westerner to look at developing countries like Egypt and judge their social systems. But you have to look at the bigger global picture. You live in countries very rich in natural resources, so it's easy to move from one class to the next. In Egypt its not the case. Resources are limited, the government is corrupt, national debt is high and foreign countries expoit Egyptian labor because they are willing to work for a fraction of what they would pay for labor in their own country. Then you have people the same people criticizing the social classes, complaining that their jobs are going overseas to less developed countries, threatening their own standard of living.

It's more apparent when you're living in a country with 30% unemployment to see the wide gap between social classes. But again resources are limited. But if more jobs and opportnities are created it could only be in the form of private foreign investment, then what happens as a result, you have people complaining that 'their' resources are going overseas. So no one is ever satisfied. Communism failed worldwide, socialism failed in Egypt, the result is a capitalistic economy that results in social classes.

Maybe one day Egypt will discover a gold mine or an oil field, and our countrymen will be just as well off as the gulf arabs and westerners rich is resources, but until the wealthy are striving to hold on to what they have, and the poor are struggling to get more. It's just the way it is, Katrina. We are not a rich country like the USA, and if the limited wealth was distributed through out the country we would be back in a socialist era, that has already proven unsucessful. I hope you understand.

Don't listen to exaggerations about wealthy people, they are not all snobs. Some of them are very giving, and contribute a great deal to charity. From my own perspective I find the middle class to be more snobbish than the wealthy. Or as we like to call them- the newly wealthy. The type that can't stand the site of poverty because it's a harsh reminder to them of where they came from.

[This message has been edited by Haqikah (edited 19 August 2004).]

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Haqikah

Thank you very much for explanations. I understand what you are saying. However, it still reminds me of this: upper class Egyptians look down upon their lower class countrymen just like Gulf Arabs look down upon at Egyptians. Not all, but on average. It is sad to see that.

I would like to talk to you maybe even offline about various topics not just this

Email at katrina_52500@yahoo.com if you'd like

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Why is there so much talk of class on this site. I am english.My Egyptian friend has asked me to marry him.We have been seeing each other for a year.I have met all his family and his friends.I love him more than I can tell you.Being older and better off than him is that a recipe for disaster.I dont give a damm.Without doubt he loves me but someone reading my story would think very differently.Personally I do not care about money,nice to have it,but to be in a relationship where you are number one is wonderful and all the money in the world cannot buy that.Give me a tent and a camel in the sahara and I would be happy with him.

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Originally posted by Haqikah:
Ya Monica

Ana wsltny elresala beta3tek 3ashan a2dar ab3atlek 3ala el email, olealy ba2a ezay a2dar asa3dek?

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Originally posted by Penny:
Sorry I am going to be a little hard on you here...it is just too easy to say you don't give a dam about money when you have got it...try saying it if you have never had it...unless you have been there we don't know what it is like. You can take all the steps you are about to knowing if it all goes wrong you still have a safety net in a rich Western country. I am sure you have all the right feelings to be taking this step and I do wish you luck but just now you are coming at everything with a mind that is 100% western. Egyptain men often say they like western women for their open minds but lets be honest unless we are prepared to start looking at things in a very different way our minds are only open to westen values and western ways of thinking.

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Penny, maybe I am wrong but if so tell me. Not only what you say is right, but it seems to me that it is the western woman who adopts 100%. You never see any Egyptian men trying to understand anything about the culture of a woman he marries. You see western women who try very hard to learn and adopt to the Egyptian way whether it is logical or stupid, because the argument is always not about what is logical but "this is how it is". Take it or leave it. It is not about a blend. it is about 100% Egyptian, whether is is good or not. It is my perception on average. If it is not true, you can say.

Gege, you may be very surprised that your boyfriend/financee says and acts one way in the West, but you will see a difference once you are in Egypt.

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Originally posted by katrina:
Penny, maybe I am wrong but if so tell me. Not only what you say is right, but it seems to me that it is the western woman who adopts 100%. You never see any Egyptian men trying to understand anything about the culture of a woman he marries. You see western women who try very hard to learn and adopt to the Egyptian way whether it is logical or stupid, because the argument is always not about what is logical but "this is how it is". Take it or leave it. It is not about a blend. it is about 100% Egyptian, whether is is good or not. It is my perception on average. If it is not true, you can say.

Gege, you may be very surprised that your boyfriend/financee says and acts one way in the West, but you will see a difference once you are in Egypt.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]

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Dear Katrina

If a Western women marries an Egyptian man and chooses to live in his country then yes she has to make far many more compromises than he does because she has got to live by the culture and social rules of that society. If she does not then she disrespects her husband and you can be sure the relationship will be short lived. However what I find is than within the walls of our home I am very much more free to just be myself and we talk and discuss between us all sort of issues and culture from both viewpoints. There is deinitely not a take or leave it attitude and my husband will expect visitors to our home to adapt to my wishes and ways...he just has a lovely way of asking and people really don't mind.

My husband's mind is definitely more 'closed' to new ideas and ways of thinking than mine is but then he did not grow up in a western society so why should I expect otherwise and so often when I really think and look at his viewpoint I find in fact it is me that is also set in my ways.

I think western women often have a way of trying the contol their men and if this is your way then you will find big problems with an Egyptian man. If you have ever watched a woman doing this though it is very demeening to the man and often leads to their emasculation. Give me a man that is a true man any day and as long as I trust him I have no problem letting go of the reigns.

Really as long as you do not find you are compromising so much that you are loosing your identily as a person then there is usually so much gained from the relationship if the man is like my husband he truly appreciates the adjustments you make.Many of those adjustments actually turn out to enhance your life rather than restrict it... it just depends how you look at things.

I do not want to sound harsh. I do wish you happiness especially knowing that your first marriage was not great. You do deserve happiness like many women do. But do you really think a man 20 years junior can love a much older woman for what she is? Why? Because of common interests, values?

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Originally posted by arx:
well, as an egyptian-american, i can tell you that at least here and some other places i've been, almost all foreign women want absolutely nothing to do with a "filthy arab". you have to keep in mind the ones that go to egypt are likely willing to get involved with one. it's a totally different story outside egypt!

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Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
That's interesting. Would you care to elaborate. Is that really the idea most people in the west have of us "filthy Arabs"? I haven't been to America but I find that hard to swallow. I have been to Europe and that certainly wasn't the impression I got. They were mostly impartial, or maybe they were acting impartial while thinking "dirty Arab". I don't know but are you exaggerating a bit maybe?

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this is why I asked the same question. I would like to see an explanation as I do live in the US. Maybe just a bad experience or something like that?

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Originally posted by arx:
I don't think you can generalize here. My husband is Iranian and we have endured a lot of prejudice. He doesn't tell anyone where he is from anymore unless we know the people really well. You know all that Axis of evil stuff.
Sami

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I have met people who view Arabs as filthy and with no exception they were uneducated uninformed and people whom I had no desire of ever knowing but our paths crossed at one point or another. I’m often asked where I'm from and I look them straight in the eyes and answer "EGYPT"....it's that simple.

Sami, I've never lived in the US, I live in the 53d state: Canada.
If it ever came down to me having to avoid telling anyone where I'm from, I would leave this country and never look back.

It is a matter of strength of character, if you bend down they'll kick you just becasue your down. I will never understand how people accept to live in fear.

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Originally posted by Sami16:

well, as an egyptian-american, i can tell you that at least here and some other places i've been, almost all foreign women want absolutely nothing to do with a "filthy arab". you have to keep in mind the ones that go to egypt are likely willing to get involved with one. it's a totally different story outside egypt!

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I have never "Lived" in the US but have been there many times and you are completely off.....where exactly do you live and how long have you been there?

The second quote that you have attributed to me is not mine. If you read my post, you will see that I told you where I live. I am not Egyptian-American. I am Irish American married to an Iranian. I have lived in the US all my life with the exception of the three years that I lived in Europe.

My Husband is very proud of his Iranian heritage. He is also a very private person and doesn't feel that he has to tell everyone everything. The people that ask us his nationality are people that we usually know. I am also proud of my husband's heritage. His family has been wonderful to us and I want my children to be proud of their Iranian heritage. My husband doesn't look Middle Eastern. People know that he has an accent and from our last name, they think that we are Italian. My husband has blue eyes and is fair skinned. His mother was also light skinned.

I am sorry if you have visited places here and have been treated poorly. I wish that there wasn't prejudice but there is. We have experienced horrible prejudice in our last neighborhood and then we moved here and the people are wonderful. But this is a very educated multi-ethnic neighborhood. There are good people here and their are bad just like in Egypt.Right now I am sure that there are a lot of Egyptians and Arabs that feel Americans are filth.

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Originally posted by welsafty:
Japanese, Korean, and Chinese women tend to be more obedient, and easily adjust to their husbands habits, and not every man likes that of course.
Germen women, are very organized, determined, and are capable of running a house like a clock.
British women are very faithful, traditional, and a man can almost expect what she is going to do next, Latin women are hot, passionate and extremely jalousie, and sometimes their outbursts are unpredictable.
American women are independent, librated, adventurous.
All of them are nice, gentile, funny , romantic, cheerful, compassionat, lovely, pretty , sweet, adorable, and to die for.

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Penny I have no intention of controlling my fiancee niether would I want to. Marriage is a partnership it is all about compromising.Although it does not matter to us where we live ny fiancee is quite happy to live in Egypt or in England and I am sure he would have no problems.Because my values are no different to his.He respects me and I him. I am not a western woman who was born"rich". In fact I come from a very poor background but I got off my backside and did something about it.I have worked very hard all my life and built up a business,I do not take for granted what I have on the contrary I count my blessings every day.Yes money gives you a very comfortable life but without love in it you are not complete.I have spent a great deal of time in Egypt so I think I know the culture well. I like the way I am looked after and cared about it is so refreshing. My eyes are wide open and I have no illusions.My marriage failed after 27 years so there are no guarentees in life.But one should not let an opportunity of happiness pass them by because of a difference in culture,

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GEGE I do wish you all the luck in the world and hope it works. You certainly have the right attitude and have your eyes open and I am sure you have read all the horror stories here. They give us all panic attacks from time to time! Regardless of religion, culture status, at the end of the day it all comes down to the two individual people. Do they love and respect each other to work through the difficulties ahead. If you are the sort of person who digs in and makes it work then it will. In my three years of marriage I have come up against many many hurdles but at the end of the day I love my husband enough to work through them and stick with it but, without doubt it has been me that has make more compromises...why? because I am living in his country, his society. All I can say is I am more happy for the changes I have made and lost nothing as a person by those changes. Just have a think about the changes you will have to make to fit in and be respected by this society and then ask yourself what changes has he got to make. You will see it is out of balance but so what? Look at what you get back in return. You have already spoke about how you get taken care of/looked after. yes it is wonderful.

I do admit be being a bit cynical where there are big age gaps simply because of what I witness before my eyes every day in Sharm. The issue of children is a big one and I think would be my biggest worry in your shoes.

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Originally posted by Sami16:
I agree with Katrina. I live in Michigan less than an hour from Dearborn, the largest Arabic Community in the US. There are three Arab families in my neighborhood. They are wonderful people and we all get along. There are numerous Arab kids in my son's High School. There are no racial incidences. We lived in Chicago for two years. There were several women where I worked that were married to Arabs. A lot depends on where you live. If it is an educated area then people will tend to look on Arabs more favorably. I don't think you can generalize here. My husband is Iranian and we have endured a lot of prejudice. He doesn't tell anyone where he is from anymore unless we know the people really well. You know all that Axis of evil stuff.
Sami

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Hi Sami, nice to meet a fellow Michigan resident. We own a CPA firm in Dearborn, my husband is Lebanese. We have experienced more prejudice when we are out of Michigan especially at the air ports. But you're correct, there is a strong unity amongst the Arab community in Michigan.

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Originally posted by katrina:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by welsafty:
[b]LOL, yes I admit it, but I cant help it it's all about me

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[/B][/QUOTE]

Why Katrina? Did it make you feel better about yourself?? I bet it did. Hate to disappoint you though.. not all egyptian women are like that.

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Originally posted by Egyptianese:
Why Katrina? Did it make you feel better about yourself?? I bet it did. Hate to disappoint you though.. not all egyptian women are like that.

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NO it did not. I simply was joking. I do not need to compare myself to anybody to feel better. I feel good about myself without it. BUT Why should I have flattered the author? So I joked. Did not you get it? I have nothing against Egyptian women. I know a few very good ones in real life. No need to take it so seriously to make yourself feel better

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Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
That's interesting. Would you care to elaborate. Is that really the idea most people in the west have of us "filthy Arabs"? I haven't been to America but I find that hard to swallow. I have been to Europe and that certainly wasn't the impression I got. They were mostly impartial, or maybe they were acting impartial while thinking "dirty Arab". I don't know but are you exaggerating a bit maybe?

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Could it be a similar situation to the egyptian men and women who appear welcoming and friendly while silently thinking "western slut"?

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Originally posted by Dalia:

You wrote an interesting post, but this kind of stereotyping is just awful.

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