quote:Originally posted by Bubblesperson: Dear Samarra-Sono!!!
Now why do you keep having a go at Martha, of all people, about Orfi?!?!?! She never said it is good or bad, just that adults are free to do as they choose, which most others would agree with...
You have made it perfectly clear now that Orfi in your opinion is immoral and shows no respect for anyone, including self - and so??? What are you going to do about it???
Again I must tell you to rant HERE about foreign women entering Orfi giving all foreigners living there a bad name is just not on, since nonsense!!! And unfair... They DON'T know it is bad, are never told so by anyone they meet, INCLUDING the lawyer (!!!) at whose offices this contract is signed - how could they possibly know it is such a disgusting thing to do??? Most often they are told it is the Islamic-Egyptian thing to do, different laws, different state religion, how is believing this disrespect for one's nation?!?!?! (Let alone 'the institution of marriage', my, my...). They think this is how it is done in Egypt, simple!!!
IF you wish for your warnings to have any positive effect whatsever, I suggest you head to Hurghada, Sharm or Luxor in a hurry, hang out in a few coffee shops and tell the ladies on holiday there, better still, come armed with flyers and print-out's. That way you could do some REAL good and really make a difference, doubtless some women would be very happy to be so informed - and saved from disaster - by you!!! You would be doing a good and much needed service, so what's keeping you??? You are in Egypt, are you not, free to get on with this selfless mission??
As for your statement that due to this 'immoral behaviour' all other foreign women have to face dire consequences, what nonsense again - no, sorry, I can't say that, perhaps you have been propositioned or accosted by some cheeky chap - but again I repeat I lived there fulltime for nearly 2 years before I really heard about Orfi, and in all that time (come to think of it, ALL the time I lived there, 5 years, and even the last few months that I am coming and going) I have NOT had one rude proposal, been touched or something else nor have I ever been treated with anything other than respect, kindess and courtesy - and that even on the Red Sea!!!!
Guess it all very much depends on how one oneself interacts and behaves... So, what are things like where you live in the country???
Greetings, Bubble
I am responding to Martha, she has been on ES for a while, most likely had a number of different usernames before and still doesn't give a rip about respecting a pious society.
That is what I am ticked about, Martha knows the facts and still doesn't care how disrespectful it is to Egypt.
Yeah there may be a few tourist who don't understand its wrong, but with Martha its different. She has been informed and still doesn't give a rip. In all likelihood half of orfi wives probably fully understand that what they are doing is wrong. But like martha don't care.
Actually I haven't been oogled or harrassed. I go everywhere with a handful of in-laws, usually with the big tall male in-law the eldest.
I have never been touched, never had any guy offer himself to me at all in Egypt.
But I have never been to the Red Sea Resort area and will never go near that area.
I don't like mummies, just about anything to do with ancient Egypt at all. I have a heavy dislike for anything Pharoahnic in any shape or form.
And while I post that you will probably have a comeback in regards to "Why even set foot in Egypt"?
My response would be Ancient Egypt and the Pharoah s are dead. There is the Med coast which I enjoy and don't need to see a beach full of bare chested women and ugly men in speedos.
No way in hell would I ever take the time to explain to any foreign woman why orfi marriages aren't a good idea. They already know and don't care.
So, what are things like where you live in the country???
Minnesota is really nice. Men don't harrass women unless you are in a nightclub. Rapes happen usually when alcohol is involved, with the help of date rape drugs.
I don't drink, go to nightclubs, or date more than 1 guy at a time. I even do background checks on a guy before I date them.
I am cautious and actually carry alot of restraint with my feminity.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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I am responding to Martha, she has been on ES for a while, most likely had a number of different usernames before and still doesn't give a rip about respecting a pious society. I dont respect anyone or anything but my own sick mind and the only pleasure I get in life is showing ES what a redneck I am.
That is what I am ticked about, Martha knows the facts and still doesn't care how disrespectful it is to Egypt. Everyone knows the facts about me and still don't care that Im a threat to Egypt.
Yeah there may be a few tourist who don't understand its wrong, but with Martha its different. She has been informed and still doesn't give a rip. In all likelihood half of orfi wives probably fully understand that what they are doing is wrong. But like martha I don't care.I plan to stalk my exes family in egypt. The whole land will bow down low as they see how close I am to the upper classes. My exes family clean government offices in Cairo but I don't like to boast. Oh look at me, I'm Sandra Dee.
Actually I haven't been oogled or harrassed. God knows I have tried to attract attention. Mens shlongs shrivel up and die just at my words on the internet. I go everywhere with a handful of in-laws (the one time I was in Egypt) usually with the big tall male in-law the eldest. This is to protect the locals from my luvlies.
I have never been touched, never had any guy offer himself to me at all. I bought a Egy husband by co sponsering his visa application. This worked out just fine until the sheet slipped during our five minute love fest and he saw the real me. Divorce is a bitch.
But I have never been to the Red Sea Resort area and will never go near that area.I am banned.
I don't like mummies although I am one. My child doesn't know im an ancient mummy as she wont be allowed to see me. My husband knew it was best to send her to egypt as I never go there. Luckily I dont speak Egyptian so I dont have to worry what my child needs.
And while I post that you will probably have a comeback in regards to "Why even set foot in Egypt"?
My response is that I haven't much. I was there once and like to pretend that I got to see more than the wonders of Shebin, plus a few days in Cairo and Alexandria. There is the Med coast which I enjoy and don't need to see a beach full of bare chested women and ugly men when I can see that at home. I have never had a vacation and will never afford one.
No way in hell would I ever take the time to explain to any foreign woman why orfi marriages aren't a good idea. They already know and don't care. I dont care that I am a divorced visa wife who gave up my baby for no good reason. My ex husband doesnt care enough to come home when I cook dinner for him during Ramadan, poor frustrated fool that I am.
So, what are things like where you live in the country???
Minnesota is really nice. Men don't harrass women unless you are in a nightclub. Rapes happen usually when alcohol is involved, with the help of date rape drugs. The police have warned me not to slip drugs into mens drinks but I live in hope of meeting another desperate visa guy.
I don't drink, go to nightclubs, or eat more than 12 dates at a time. Background checks are run on me before I am allowed into clean a guys house.
I have been cautioned and am usually restrained around men. My feminity makes them fear for their lifes. Posts: 9 | Registered: Nov 2006
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Today checked mailbox of my ex- friend (alhamdulillah- i opened my eyes on time and didnt have much to regret). It was big WOW what i saw there... The same text, the same pictures of him, just different "addressees" all over the world....Even the same snoty words- "i love u my queen, sweet kisses on ur sexy lips....bla bla bla". I wish those girls could know that they r just "one of lots". And by the way this sample was not of highest class (just beginner ). Really cant imagine what is going on in the highest league. Was a pitty that a saw that there is one 50 year old woman from UK in his list. Saw her picture- really pleasant woman Posts: 188 | From: Baltics | Registered: Apr 2006
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Sorry, I misunderstood obviously, I was not aware you are in Minnesota. (???) I thought you lived with your in-laws in Egypt, my mistake - but so you obviously could not go to speak with anyone in the resorts there. It's a pity, though, that you so reject that idea - I was being serious when saying this would be a much needed service...
On the other hand, from personal experience I know that it is quite difficult to do so - naturally, any woman in love is loath to believe that her man might be 'one of those'... Some are more receptive than others, still, I know that it sets them to think a bit and be more careful, which can only be a good thing!! Whatever someone does after having been told about some of the going's-on is up to them, of course, it's only that I met tooooo many ladies who would have been glad to be told some of this in the beginning...
Whether you like mummies or ancient Egypt, is your personal choice, and of course there are hundreds of reasons to love a country - personally I feel it is a shame you are not interested in this part of Egypt, since it means so much and brought so much to the world - but then I would say that, being a history fiend... Again, your choice - just seems a pity to reject something without trying it first, but presumably you have...
Dear Aya Hosni!!!
Sooooo, checking mailboxes, are you??? Got a few passwords then that he doesn't know you have, eh, eh??? Yeah, you must be ever so happy you got out of this in time without too much of a broken heart, I hope - yes, sometimes one has to wonder about the sense of the women on the receiving end, but there we are, they DO take it all serious because they also DO believe this is for them only... Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't think the words and actions are any different in the 'highest league' - just the organisation (as in timing of visits and keeping track of stories) is more complicated... If it were me, I'd be sweating and having sleepless nights, what if one of them comes on a surprise visit or so??? From a distance, I watched one guy in town (middle age, high position, enough own money, I'd call him a 'love addict', no need for visa or anything...) keep this up for years, all went well - he WAS found out a couple of times, once dumped, once forgiven, but no reason to stop the lifestyle...
Dear Ahly!!!
Thanks for your thoughtful post again. You are right, the absence of families should give people pause for thought - but this is often explained with 'we go to visit them later, they can't come here now, no money, they have to work'... And quite often these guys have little parties to 'celebrate' their wedding where they invite all their friends (who, of course, won't tell...) so again the lady thinks it is all open, honest and believes it... There are a million and one good excuses these chaps think of, and very often, women still their doubts with the ole argument of 'Well, this is a different culture and way of doing things, HE must know what is right, so who am I to tell him differently about his country'....
Women in love is a VERY complicated matter to deal with!!!
Greetings all, Bubble
Posts: 144 | From: Egypt/Europe | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bubblesperson: Sooooo, checking mailboxes, are you??? Got a few passwords then that he doesn't know you have, eh, eh???
I know it is not good, just can't kill my nosyness His password are as primitive as he himself Or telephone number, or 'habibi'.. No any effort. But i promised myself it was last time i did that insha'allah..
Posts: 188 | From: Baltics | Registered: Apr 2006
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Sometimes I think it`s amazing how much is accepted in the way some men use to behave, by Western women, but also by Egyptian women!(Because they know what`s going on, and they have to accept,not much possibility`s for an Egyptian woman.) I`m in a position that I can ask some men the reason why they behave in this way, because often, in my opinion they`re going way to far. Well, we`re Egyptian, and we are hunters, is the exploination, and when we have caught our prey, she`s worthless. And it`s not bothering us, to be honest... This explains enough I think, and this seems to be "normal" behaviour when nothing economic is needed, like money, passport, visa etc. For economic reasons they are ready to offer much more. "If necessary, we`ll eat her ****" another meaningfull expression. Because the other option , pay for it, is simply impossible, rate EP 50.000,-- with no 100% guarantee. And for what? For living lives like ancient slaves...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by martha: Dear Bubbleperson,
Thank you for your kind replies. You were informative and sensitive. A rare thing here on ES. I appreciate it so much.
As to my personal situation I will not share it. Because usually on the forum when I've asked questions seeking advice or just trying to have a friendly thread for people to share. I get cut up and abused. So, no thanks.
However this is why I so much appreciate your style of addressing my questions without condemning me.
I do not relish the thought of my personal life being bandied about and used to hurt me as I see others doing on this forum. It's so cruel. No matter how much they seem to hate each other.
Many of my questions were in response to many months of reading these posts and hearing the same old cruel things said about Western women and Egyptian men.
Sure, most of it's probably true. As it is all over the world how men and women use each other, no mattter what country they are from.
Sometimes it's just so disgusting to hear so much negativity.
On this forum, I've heard the Western women who visit as tourists, described as fat, old, ugly pigs desperately looking for love anywhere they can get it. And it makes me angry.
I think people deserve more respect than that. I guess I just get tired of the unbelievable cruelty. And at times I am shocked at the coldness and bad attitudes towards other people.
Martha don't take this the wrong way.....
But any tourist who decides to have sex on the fly even with an orfi paper must have a slight nudging feeling that in a pious country such as Egypt, the sex paper marriage is more than likely considered as wrong.
Anybody with an iota of scrupples and common sense would know that this type of sex paper is wrong in their own country and more than likely wrong in Egypt.
Its obvious that most of these female foreign tourists just don't care. More than likely know about the sex tourism trade and orfi in advance, even understand that is looked down upon in Egypt in advance.
If they don't care and are only out to get sex, why bother warning them about gigilos and let them get what they deserve?
By the way I noticed in your post above and most posts in regards to this thread didn't bother to reflect on whether this Orfi practice is right or wrong, its a embarassment to Egypt, that its not socially acceptable practice in Egypt......
I don't know if it's right or wrong. I suppose it depends on who is doing it whether it is right or wrong to them. A personal choice. Just like anything else. I personally would feel it would be wrong for me.
Martha you reflect in this thread as if this affects no one other than you and the Egyptian guys who profit from this.
It doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever. I'm not Orfi married. But I feel adults when given a legal choice to do something have the right to do it if it's their desire to do so. They know their own religious and personal values. It's up to them to make the choices that will let them live with their own conscience.
If you aren't Orfi married, once were orfi married or planning to be orfi married then you wouldn't be defending this public nuisance!
Just because something is legal doesn't mean its the right thing to do, and that it won't affect a wider community.
And its real easy to get married and walk away with an orfi contract. Just never re-enter Egypt.
But for foreign women who will and must be in Egypt they face the consequences for other foreign female tourist immoral behavior.
To carry on in such an immoral compacity shows a lack of respect for yourself, for your own nation/culture, for Egypt and its cultural constructs and for the institution of marriage itself.
Not defending anything.
Just stating my opinion.
Posts: 58 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bubblesperson: Dear Samarra-Sono!!!
Now why do you keep having a go at Martha, of all people, about Orfi?!?!?! She never said it is good or bad, just that adults are free to do as they choose, which most others would agree with...
You have made it perfectly clear now that Orfi in your opinion is immoral and shows no respect for anyone, including self - and so??? What are you going to do about it???
Again I must tell you to rant HERE about foreign women entering Orfi giving all foreigners living there a bad name is just not on, since nonsense!!! And unfair... They DON'T know it is bad, are never told so by anyone they meet, INCLUDING the lawyer (!!!) at whose offices this contract is signed - how could they possibly know it is such a disgusting thing to do??? Most often they are told it is the Islamic-Egyptian thing to do, different laws, different state religion, how is believing this disrespect for one's nation?!?!?! (Let alone 'the institution of marriage', my, my...). They think this is how it is done in Egypt, simple!!!
IF you wish for your warnings to have any positive effect whatsever, I suggest you head to Hurghada, Sharm or Luxor in a hurry, hang out in a few coffee shops and tell the ladies on holiday there, better still, come armed with flyers and print-out's. That way you could do some REAL good and really make a difference, doubtless some women would be very happy to be so informed - and saved from disaster - by you!!! You would be doing a good and much needed service, so what's keeping you??? You are in Egypt, are you not, free to get on with this selfless mission??
As for your statement that due to this 'immoral behaviour' all other foreign women have to face dire consequences, what nonsense again - no, sorry, I can't say that, perhaps you have been propositioned or accosted by some cheeky chap - but again I repeat I lived there fulltime for nearly 2 years before I really heard about Orfi, and in all that time (come to think of it, ALL the time I lived there, 5 years, and even the last few months that I am coming and going) I have NOT had one rude proposal, been touched or something else nor have I ever been treated with anything other than respect, kindess and courtesy - and that even on the Red Sea!!!!
Guess it all very much depends on how one oneself interacts and behaves... So, what are things like where you live in the country???
Greetings, Bubble
I am responding to Martha, she has been on ES for a while, most likely had a number of different usernames before and still doesn't give a rip about respecting a pious society.
That is what I am ticked about, Martha knows the facts and still doesn't care how disrespectful it is to Egypt.
Yeah there may be a few tourist who don't understand its wrong, but with Martha its different. She has been informed and still doesn't give a rip. In all likelihood half of orfi wives probably fully understand that what they are doing is wrong. But like martha don't care.
Actually I haven't been oogled or harrassed. I go everywhere with a handful of in-laws, usually with the big tall male in-law the eldest.
I have never been touched, never had any guy offer himself to me at all in Egypt.
But I have never been to the Red Sea Resort area and will never go near that area.
I don't like mummies, just about anything to do with ancient Egypt at all. I have a heavy dislike for anything Pharoahnic in any shape or form.
And while I post that you will probably have a comeback in regards to "Why even set foot in Egypt"?
My response would be Ancient Egypt and the Pharoah s are dead. There is the Med coast which I enjoy and don't need to see a beach full of bare chested women and ugly men in speedos.
No way in hell would I ever take the time to explain to any foreign woman why orfi marriages aren't a good idea. They already know and don't care.
So, what are things like where you live in the country???
Minnesota is really nice. Men don't harrass women unless you are in a nightclub. Rapes happen usually when alcohol is involved, with the help of date rape drugs.
I don't drink, go to nightclubs, or date more than 1 guy at a time. I even do background checks on a guy before I date them.
I am cautious and actually carry alot of restraint with my feminity.
You astound me Samrra. You judge me with out any facts whatsoever.
As I stated before, I love Egypt and her people. Highly respect the culture. By the way, I love the history too. And never used another username on here before.
But that's a good idea. I'll do it soon.
Samarra, sometimes I have felt sorry for you on here the way you have been attacked, and also been angry with you many times for attacking other people.
But you have taught me a lesson. You can't be serious. So now I enjoy your posts so much. Thanks for the entertainment. Posts: 58 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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Thanks for your thoughtful post again. You are right, the absence of families should give people pause for thought - but this is often explained with 'we go to visit them later, they can't come here now, no money, they have to work'... And quite often these guys have little parties to 'celebrate' their wedding where they invite all their friends (who, of course, won't tell...) so again the lady thinks it is all open, honest and believes it... There are a million and one good excuses these chaps think of, and very often, women still their doubts with the ole argument of 'Well, this is a different culture and way of doing things, HE must know what is right, so who am I to tell him differently about his country'....
Women in love is a VERY complicated matter to deal with!!!
yes i sgree with you, you said somthing very important Ladies in love are very complicated matter to deal with? so what about the ladies why they like that satution and they do it? why? what about the secand part of the realtion the LADIES? WHY THEY DOES IT? thanks
Posts: 233 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Aya Hosni: Today checked mailbox of my ex- friend (alhamdulillah- i opened my eyes on time and didnt have much to regret). It was big WOW what i saw there... The same text, the same pictures of him, just different "addressees" all over the world....Even the same snoty words- "i love u my queen, sweet kisses on ur sexy lips....bla bla bla". I wish those girls could know that they r just "one of lots". And by the way this sample was not of highest class (just beginner ). Really cant imagine what is going on in the highest league. Was a pitty that a saw that there is one 50 year old woman from UK in his list. Saw her picture- really pleasant woman
I'm glad you can laugh at him, Aya. You deserve better and you *will* get better than that parasite inshaAllah.
All the best.
(P.s. How did you open his mailbox? )
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual:
quote:Originally posted by Aya Hosni: Today checked mailbox of my ex- friend (alhamdulillah- i opened my eyes on time and didnt have much to regret). It was big WOW what i saw there... The same text, the same pictures of him, just different "addressees" all over the world....Even the same snoty words- "i love u my queen, sweet kisses on ur sexy lips....bla bla bla". I wish those girls could know that they r just "one of lots". And by the way this sample was not of highest class (just beginner ). Really cant imagine what is going on in the highest league. Was a pitty that a saw that there is one 50 year old woman from UK in his list. Saw her picture- really pleasant woman
I'm glad you can laugh at him, Aya. You deserve better and you *will* get better than that parasite inshaAllah.
All the best.
(P.s. How did you open his mailbox? )
Thx MK Alhamdulillah i have found my second half and we will marry this months insha'allah. This parasite was just unlucky experience of my past and i am glad that i can take it so easy and with humor now. About mailbox- there were just 2 tries- his telephone number and word "habibi" and the last worked out Posts: 188 | From: Baltics | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual:
quote:Originally posted by Aya Hosni: Today checked mailbox of my ex- friend (alhamdulillah- i opened my eyes on time and didnt have much to regret). It was big WOW what i saw there... The same text, the same pictures of him, just different "addressees" all over the world....Even the same snoty words- "i love u my queen, sweet kisses on ur sexy lips....bla bla bla". I wish those girls could know that they r just "one of lots". And by the way this sample was not of highest class (just beginner ). Really cant imagine what is going on in the highest league. Was a pitty that a saw that there is one 50 year old woman from UK in his list. Saw her picture- really pleasant woman
I'm glad you can laugh at him, Aya. You deserve better and you *will* get better than that parasite inshaAllah.
All the best.
(P.s. How did you open his mailbox? )
Thx MK Alhamdulillah i have found my second half and we will marry this months insha'allah. This parasite was just unlucky experience of my past and i am glad that i can take it so easy and with humor now. About mailbox- there were just 2 tries- his telephone number and word "habibi" and the last worked out
I can easily get past any password of King Kong's, uses the same keyboard stretch every time with a change of of 4 stretches of consecutive keys.
His email or login name changes barely, pretty consistant.
I know everything he is up to, and don't need to go near his PC.
Most of the time I don't care and don't bother. But when he smells of pot, I will look in on him.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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Just found it - Wonderful! Enlightening! And yes - it should be made into a separate website (easy to find) - it has so much first-hand brilliant information about 'the bad boys world'.
Posts: 2807 | From: Europe | Registered: Nov 2007
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oh my gawd!! i have spent many happy hours wading through all the forums , i have to say i have been so entertained reading them, total respect to all you guys n galls. and no ! no way will i become invoved with an egyptian man after reading all your replies. am still rolling with laughter at some forum replies , keep up the good work
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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Hi Wht a great thread, I cant belive that i never saw this one before, thumbs up to some really great and true info, Manx they are not all bad, i have the perfect one, that accepts me here with him in his country knowing im skint and have only me too offer him, they are rare but they are out there
quote:Originally posted by Bubblesperson: Only that the real status of Orfi - and the light in which this is viewed - is not known to many foreign ladies - they have no idea that policemen and others might think rather badly of them, while they commonly feel this is a serious thing, proves his love and is leading onto the real thing for them. Well, not always... I know one European lady who signed one of these, no lawyer, just the 2 witnesses, not legalised, with one chap, ripped it up - but just her copy!!! Mistake!!! - and next holiday signed another paper with another chap. First chap got to hear of this and had her arrested and thrown in jail for bigamy (he had kept HIS copy..), so she had TWO husbands.
Hi, Bubbles
Thank you for the thoughtful and informative report. I have one question. It seems that a major problem of orfi marriages is the inability of the woman to end the marriage. A simple solution seems to me for the woman to have issma (right to divorce at will) in the contract. Why is this not standard practice?
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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I can't figure out what these women come to egypt on holiday and orfi marry a new guy every year for. I mean, are there no available men in their own countries?? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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thanks bubbles for your thread.......very informative and so so interesting. I had an Orfi marriage.......was older than him.....was secret from family as he told me he needed time for his family to accept me he had to prepare them and he didnt want to choose between us. I met some of his friends so wasnt secret there............as i dont speak arabic i have no idea what he told them. He got money from me on pretext of needing it to finish renovations for flat. We got engaged on my visit and he told me we would get married next visit and to bring papers to prove I was free. We signed the contract in "our" flat.....witnessed the next day i wasnt there when it was.......He has only copy . Anyway he says it is now all over but we can be friends and he will help me as friend when i am in egypt...... God he even bought me ring and he had one. I have been tearing myself inside out not knowing if this was genuine or not he really had me bowled over. This is in Cairo and not the red sea and he is also a friend of my Tour Guide. all a plot for money....plot to boost his ego.......who knows. I just wish i knew before i came. I was not looking for love it just happened.........but i do know one thing...he was always on the net..........for the last few months he isnt on at all.......too busy so he says.......I have tried to put this out of my mind...swings and roundabouts.....roller coaster of emotions.........true or not......one thing i do know is that i will never find the truth so no point in trying.....Its over i cant accept friendship coz for me that would be hoping for something more..........and i respect myself too much for that.well i do now but i didnt before. I tried to fit in with the culture when i was there.i think he wanted to show me what he expected......i could never question him about anything.........god im babbling on arent i......just wanted to say thanks again "Oh Wise One" and i know from my part i truly believed all he said........call me what u like i probably deserve them all........I will also post a new thread about property in Egypt as i will be moving inshallah...........keep up the good work.......oh he told me he still has contract so i expect i have to see him rip it up if not what do i do........i am not planning on marrying but what happens if later i want to....dont fancy time in jail......but i want to feel free in my life.......appreciate your views thanks so much and keep the sun shining
Posts: 171 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: Hi, Bubbles Thank you for the thoughtful and informative report. I have one question. It seems that a major problem of orfi marriages is the inability of the woman to end the marriage. A simple solution seems to me for the woman to have issma (right to divorce at will) in the contract. Why is this not standard practice?
Anyone? Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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I wouldn't know, I don't really have any experience with Orfi other than what I've read here. I thought the only people who really used it were people who just wanted to have sex and be in the same flat without getting in trouble.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I wouldn't know, I don't really have any experience with Orfi other than what I've read here. I thought the only people who really used it were people who just wanted to have sex and be in the same flat without getting in trouble.
There seems to be two different modes: (1) To make things legal (what you referred to), and (2) To make things legitimate (from a religious point of view). In both modes, the inability of the woman to end the marriage can be a serious problem.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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Well it is Egypt, the man usually has the power in most things here as it is. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when even Orfi cannot be surmounted. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: Hi, Bubbles Thank you for the thoughtful and informative report. I have one question. It seems that a major problem of orfi marriages is the inability of the woman to end the marriage. A simple solution seems to me for the woman to have issma (right to divorce at will) in the contract. Why is this not standard practice?
Anyone?
I think that a lot of women come to Egypt for the first time and get swept of their feet. They don't know the ins and outs, and think that things work the way that the man in question tells them they do. They have never heard of issma, nor do they even think that they don't have the right of divorce!
Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I can't figure out what these women come to egypt on holiday and orfi marry a new guy every year for. I mean, are there no available men in their own countries??
What I can't figure out is why woman pay for sex. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by soozi: I think that a lot of women come to Egypt for the first time and get swept of their feet. They don't know the ins and outs, and think that things work the way that the man in question tells them they do. They have never heard of issma, nor do they even think that they don't have the right of divorce!
Thank you. I guess if it's a scam, the scammer will not be keen on informing the victim of their options
I still would think that the "standard" orfi contract used should be printed with the issma option. Not that this will prevent scammers from using other forms of the contract, but it may still reduce problems in other cases.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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i expect you lot will bombard me now with bad words but it won't be the first time and it won't be the last! Personally i do not think Orfi is neccesarily a bad thing - you call it 'sex licence' but it is my opinion that if i was in England and i met somebody and after sometime i fell in love i would be able to live with them before i married them to ensure we are compatible in every way. This is not possible in Egypt so Orfi allows this. Of course like everything else it can be misused by women who go to Egypt and make a different orfi marriage every year, it is not the orfi that is bad it is the woman. Orfi does not make bad morals it is the person who makes themselves have bad morals. Personally i would be reluctant to marry any man i have not had the opportunity to live with first therefore without orfi i would not be making plans to marry. You may think this is strange but it was some time before i entered into a physical relationship with my fiancee, i did not decide to make orfi until the third time i had visited Egypt to be with him and even then i had apartment with two rooms and insisted he sleep in his own room until i felt that i could see us as husband and wife only then was i ready for a physical relationship. he accepted this because if he had not he would have been history make no bones about it... : For me the orfi is similar to being engaged in Europe and soon we will make marriage, i am hapy and comfortable with this. For those women that feel they have been cheated or used by orfi marriage, i feel that it is not orfi that has done this they have allowed themselves to be treated that way. Albeit it may not have been their fault and they may have been naive, foolish, carried away by sweet words, etc. When i am in Egypt i am aware that i am ina different country with a different culture but that does not mean that i will change my boundries, morals or opinions in respect of how i want to be treated. If i would not sleep with a man in England within the first 6 weeks or so why should this change because i am in Egypt or any other country in the world. It is me who has to live with my behaviour therefore it is me who makes the decisions in respect of how i behave and how i expect to be treated
( Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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I am meant to be working but i just had to read all of the above posts. This is the best thread on ES in ages. The hardest thing about being with an Egy guy who works in a tourist area is trying to work out if he is a good or bad guy. He could be asking for money and really need it for the reason that he is telling you.
Posts: 209 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2007
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Audbod i am sorry to say this but i do not care if he really needs it or not! As soon as he asks me for money he is history - it is not my job to sort out his financial problems! If he is my husband and we both work that is different out money would go into a joint pot to be shared. If he is my boyfriend and he asks me for money then he disrespects me because he puts me in a position whereby i feel awkward saying no to him. I am not unsympathetic because i may even give him this money before i finish the relationship...
Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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If you both know the ins and outs of Orfi and it's something you're willing to accept that's your own decision. Far be it from me to withhold a woman from coming on vacation and getting sex from the hotel massage boy and giving him all her money. Ok just joking. seriously, Soozi mentioned above that it is the women who don't know how things work that get taken.
That is precisely the point. Which is why I often get astonished when locals are aghast at the girls who 'get taken' as if they could have known. Men aren't like that in many of our countries back home, if they are going to lie like that they are usually con artists or 17 years old. It happens but is generally difficult in America (for example) to see a 60 year old woman with a 25 year old man. It really doesn't happen a lot, unless the woman looks REALLY HOT and has had a fair amount of plastic surgery and looks closer to 40, even still.... Women are able to look better and better these days if they take care of themselves. Hell, my own grandmother died without ONE single wrinkle on her face (good genes). But from what I've heard many of these older women don't always look so good. That really isn't the point though. The point is that the men are usually only after one of three things (or a combo of these): money visa sex
Sometimes they will close their eyes and do the deed just to get the money or the visa, ditching the women back in the states. I HAVE HEARD ABOUT THIS SO MUCH IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. The men literally hang out with the woman in her own country for a few months until he gets a job and/or cash or is able to meet up with a new/younger woman (or his friends there) and then HE'S GONE! Often the women are absolutely shocked, they couldn't believe it could ever happen to them.
Why not? You didn't meet his family, if you did they were in on it because they knew full well you could never give him a family. Often times the men will tell the family you're just some nice old lady who wants to help him and his family and that you have agreed to marry him just so he can get the visa but there is nothing romantic going on. I doubt they believe it...but you believe what you want to believe I guess. You were old enough to be his mother, if it is unusual in our own culture how unusual do you think it is in HIS culture?? Do you think he is honestly going to be at your bedside when you're dying at 80 years old and he is 40 or 50 years old feeding you soup and rubbing BEN GAY on your legs? No, he's going off with a woman closer to his own age, it is HE who wants to be taken care of... Anyway....I went off on a tantrum again ~
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by soozi: I think that a lot of women come to Egypt for the first time and get swept of their feet. They don't know the ins and outs, and think that things work the way that the man in question tells them they do. They have never heard of issma, nor do they even think that they don't have the right of divorce!
Thank you. I guess if it's a scam, the scammer will not be keen on informing the victim of their options
I still would think that the "standard" orfi contract used should be printed with the issma option. Not that this will prevent scammers from using other forms of the contract, but it may still reduce problems in other cases.
That is a good point - if the authorities took this view, it could save a lot of heartache for a lot of people! (Although I'm not sure how much the authorities have to do with the Orfi!) Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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I agree with habeeby that Orfi is a way for people who want to live in a different style than what is mostly accepted in Egypt - it is a twisted way of freedom. Of course the stigma that follows it shows this exactly. The public doesn't agree with it, or the public opinion, but still it is widely used, because after all people want to mold their lives according to their belief and comfort.
I don't think that women that are pushing 50 or 60 are actually that blind that they believe their young orfi lovers are future husband material in the traditional sense. In my opinion both partners are using each other with WIDE OPEN EYES. It is just sugarcoated with sweet words.
I think it is allright - and I think that Orfi just shows that there never can be just "one right" way in a society for all people to live.
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Hell, my own grandmother died without ONE single wrinkle on her face (good genes).
Are you hoping to be wrinkle free Smuckers?
It would be nice, but who knows. My mother is also wrinkle-free so far and looks about 15 years younger than her real age. It might have been diluted by the time it got to me though. Just my luck. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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hi all, am going to sharm for 4th time for my birhday, av been to luxor 3 times and cairo twice, i have enormous love for the country and its people.i have read the egypt forum on orfi marriages, and can say i have not been propositioned once!. just to clarify, the green paper orfi is registered, and is legal in egypt but not anywhere else?.if so does the green paper give the woman any rights at all, and if so i would be interested to know what they are. can anyone enlighten me?. also how much do these unfortunate women end up shelling out? i cannot believe they could be so gullible. Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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I went to Egypt some weeks ago and, of course, fell for a handsome Egyptian guy. He seemed sincerely dissappointed when I left, so I gave him my number, not expecting to hear anything because I had heard these Egyptian gigolo rumours. He did sms me the same day I left though, telling me he'll miss me etc. and I sms:d him back.
I've been wondering how to react, if he actually did find me as lovely as he told me and if he wants me to go back. But I haven't heard from him for a week now
So not all Egyptian guys are after a relationship with foreign women, it seems. Probably, he was just being 'polite' to me..? You know, "I won't forget you", at least not before the next pretty girl. Just a player like any European guy ;p
So my fantasies about these charming men were shattered by this topic Doesn't feel like one could rely on true feelings from their part, based on what I've read here...
Posts: 2 | Registered: Dec 2007
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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(alhamdulillah- i opened my eyes on time and didnt have much to regret). It was big WOW what i saw there... The same text, the same pictures of him, just different "addressees" all over the world....Even the same snoty words- "i love u my queen, sweet kisses on ur sexy lips....bla bla bla". I wish those girls could know that they r just "one of lots". And by the way this sample was not of highest class (just beginner ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
). Really cant imagine what is going on in the highest league. Was a pitty that a saw that there is one 50 year old woman from UK in his list. Saw her picture- really pleasant woman ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Alhamdulillah i have found my second half and we will marry this months insha'allah. This parasite was just unlucky experience of my past and i am glad that i can take it so easy and with humor now.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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