posted
Hi folks, how is everyone here? I am writing to you all to receive a nice feedback about the man who was my previous boss, but we met again after our lives changed drastically and my question is - is he really pursuing me or am I imagining?
I used to work in his place for a couple of months, and during this time he and I had strictly business relationship, however he showed even then ( aproximatelly 2 years ago ) signs of jealousy when I talk to other guys, and he had a drinking problem so he would forget what he said or did. He would create happiness and optimism when he is not drunk, but once he starts drinking he would ruin all he created. He was also married at that time. Many people pointed to me that I look like his wife, with exception I am younger, some people even talked to me thinking I am - her.
I was recent graduate and needed extra cash for PT job at his place, and he was strict with me, saying that because he likes me that much he will pressure me in different ways to grow and become a woman I want to be professionally. So he did, and I did not like it! I often did not like his comments about my job performance, but after 2 years when I made it in professional world and become successful, I realized how much he helped me by telling me the truth. At that time I could not get it, I was so much into my own world, thus I thought he is just picking on me.
When I left his place I was still angry at him for being so critical, I was furious..... but I always knew that he besides his bad points has also good points, he is very generous and compassionate person, he would give a stranger anything he could to help, he has a heart.... and tons of good qualities. Now after 2 years I suddenly for no reason whatsoever... decide to go out in his restaurant, I felt like I should visit all my favorite places before moving to the next chapter of my life.
I came there and here he is, place half empty, I greeted him he was there, I had dinner for 2 - I arrived with a companion, and waitress showed interest in chatting with me, thus we talked a little. It was so nice and relaxing. Then I asked her to buy CD that he used to make, and she said he doesn't do it anylonger but will ask him. He made a nice CD while I was there having dinner and came to my table to give it to me personally, and to say HI! I knew that he could simply gave her CD to bring it to me, or he could of told her - he doesn't have any. So he did made an effort and burned it while I was there having dinner.
He said he could not recognize me, he is so happy to see me, asked me tons of questions, I offered him to sit with us, he accepted, asked us what we want to drink, we took coffee and chatted for about 30 minutes. He then asked me all about my personal life, if I am married, where is my ex, what type of relationship I have with him, is he living in the same city or far, then he stated he is now divorced, it was not satisfying for both of them, he doesn't miss her, but he is missing having someone in his life, then he wanted to know about my career, what I do, where, and so on, and he pretty much found out all he needed. We laughed a lot, I can't believe I acted so nice and relaxed, I told him how he thought me good things, how I used to think he doesn't know what he is talking about, he told me he want me to come again over the weekend, and asked me when am I leaving to the next chapter of my life, and stated life is very short and he is a different man now, and we learn until rest of our lives.
I told him that he gained weight, we laughed again, he told me I became more mature, I told him he was right when he told me I talked a lot to strangers, he told me that was actually good thing I did, I told him now I learned many skills, he laughed saying how sweet I am, he was not anymore acting like my boss, because he wasn't my boss anylonger. Than he left to his own table, asking me to come next week again! After he left I called taxi and on my way out, he smiled and said again to come next weekend, I smiled and when his waitress came to say bye, she invited me again, I said, OK I'll come to see you all 1 more time. I am not sure if he heard me though.
1) Is he pursuing me or I am imagining? I always had hard time recognizing when a man is interested and when is friendly. It's possible that he is acting friendly because I am his guest ( he did not ask for my number, he did not gave me his ( I know his number, he could of tell me to call me, or ask me if he can call me.... u know what I mean?, He did not ask me out... as well ... ) He asked me to come again maybe because this is his position to ask people to come again... it's to everyone, not just me... This points to me I could be imagining.
2) On the other hand, he smiled throughout all time, he asked me questions that clearly give him an idea what type of life I have and if he can be part of it, he made sure to tell me that he is divorced to let me know he is now really available, he also wanted to know about ex to see if I am with someone, he burned CD for me, gave it to me personally when he did not have to, and no charge for that - waitress told me it's a special gift, he asked me to come again... 3 times, gave me a few compliments... offered drinks ( he always does this, I am not sure about this one... )So maybe he is pursuing me?
3) Another question for you guys - I could email him and say thank you for CD and everything else to open up more communicaton before I see him again. There is a risk that he may not receive it as I am not sure if email I have is his working email, he never gave it to me but because of business advertised everyone could get his email. Or Should I just show up next week, or email him and see what is he up to?
4) What would you do?
Thanks for your input!
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
And what when he IS interested? Are you interested in an older, devorced man with a drinking problem? Are you Egyptian and is he also?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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We are both Muslims raised and born in highly islamic-traditional families. I was always attracted to his country, and he knows pretty well the history of mine. Because of same religion, we also share same values. Look, we both had interesting lives, he is very deep person, so am I. We are both self-made successful people who worked hard for our families.
He is divorced and has grown children but he got married when he was very young and got his 1st child when he was 19. He and his ex wife got divorced after all these years of staying together. They built everything together and they could not hold it anylonger. I told him I am shocked to hear about divorce as many Muslims do not divorce so easily, but he said their marriage was not satisfying for both of them and they decided to each go seperate ways and fulfil their lives with someone else. They split everything they had. There is clearly no love between 2 of them, and he was the main provider taking care of everything, she is very pretty, also Muslim from his own place, I can tell you that, she could marry 3 more times.
The divorce was mutual. I can completelly understand their divorce because these 2 people simply could not accept each other. I am not jealous on his ex, I can see how she could of have issues about his life style, however, she must not be perfect either, maybe she did not have all he needed to change his habits successfully and influence him. Maybe he did not provide her with 5th house she so much wanted. Maybe he could not be the husband she needed. Maybe they stayed together to divorce so they both can learn and change. He did all things that he should not, and divorce was only 1 event in the chain of many events that took place in his life one after another, so that he can become a better person and change. Life is short and they both have now the 2nd chance. Now his children are adults, but he is still very young looking. I am also mother, in my 30's, he is in his 40's I think, I don't know excatly... I have never asked him, but he is youngish looking man. Now about his drinking problem in the past.
This man is very emotional man. He built his whole life around what he loves the most, and he got into drinking slowly but surely... he paid his price for that. When he gets drunk he ruins all happiness he created when he is sober and later on doesn't remember anything about it. Please take a notice he doesn't look like alcoholic although he may very well be addicted, he looks neat and cool, just like any other non drinking man. He is not bad person, he has hard time saying no to people, if you ask him for something, he will embrace you and help you even if you are a complete stranger. His heart is so wide open, he will do anything to help people in need, he is extremelly generous. He will do anything for you thus he always have lots of people around him. He has everything in his life, except - no real passion and love. He carries himself with authority and pride, he appears very strong from outside, would never admit his weaknesses to just anybody. He could pretty much have many women as money and material possessions are attractive to many, but he doesn't like that, he wants someone who has it all and doesn't need him for his money. He wants someone whom he will fell in love with for real and to be happy with her and share his life with her.
I would do anything I can do in my power, and I am pretty powerful when it comes to something I want to lead him further towards the good things in life. I in return ask for his willingness to listen to me, you see I like him obviously because I am willing to take this challange. He is very protective and smart in business, we wold be great combination.
I do agree with you that his drinking problem must be resolved, and I forgot to ask him about it when I saw him, maybe he is not drinking any more, he gained some weight and appeared to look healthier than before. But when I go and see him next week ( if I go ) I would watch him and observe his behavior and I would ask him, could he stop if he already did not.
I am not an angel, I did so many things in my life I should not have done, so other people too. The only thing is we are eager to judge others but we can't look at our own bad choices and lessons we had to learn. I was smoking for years, 2 years ago I said, no more - I quit and haven't smoked since than, after 9 non successful times of quiting prior to that. It was struggle. I was drinking wine on birthdays and in restaurants, and one day after going out with my girlfriends I felt some burnings in my lungs, I said - no more, now I don't drink at all. I used to wear short skirts, dressing provocative and silly in my teen years, I believed I looked good in that clothes, and up to maybe a few years ago, but I realized I made bad choice, it took me awhile, there were consequences I have paid for them already, and now I am not like that anylonger. So I changed. I used to do so many things that I don't do anymore. So he too, must change, we all have to change.
And what if he IS interested? I would seriously be shocked that after 2 years our paths crossed with "possibility"! 1s of all I have never thought not even in my dreams that he will be divorced ever. The way his life developed is amazingly making him ready for someone else, and that person could be me. This is something that never crossed my mind. To me married man was always forbiden, thus I have never thought of him as my potential significant other. But now he is divorced for 2 years already. If he is interested, I would feel happy, I would take all love he wants to give me, and I would be greatful for it.Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Just a remark: You seem to know pretty much details about his personal life, and you`re telling us it was only a business-relationship, and that you never expected to become a part of his personal life.... How come???
So, what do we`ve got here? Two persons, one in his 40`s, one in her 30`s, both self-made succesfull businesspeople, I assume both in the same field, because you`ve worked together? Restaurantbusiness, in Europe or Egypt?
You haven`t lived like an angel, he didn`t either. Both were born in traditional religious families, and I think that same families must know about the life you were/are leading. Not exactly by The Book, to say it nicely...
You didn`t see him for two years. Two years ago you both were living that certain kind of bad life, you felt the need to change and you did. You changed because you wanted to change yourself.
Now you want to change him also because you want him to change. And that`s not how it works, usually. People, and especially when they are already in their 40`s, won`t change because somebody else wants them to change. They change when they want it themselves.
His ex-wife, who was with him for so many years, finally reached a stadium that she couldn`t accept his life anymore. She had accepted all of his bad life, can be because of the money and her luxurious life-style, or maybe just because she loved him, no matter what. I can`t tell you, and you also can only make a guess about the real reason. In fact it`s not important, more important is that she had personal limits in the way he behaved, and he crossed them. It took her over 20 years to make that decision.
So, even a women who has had all the patience with him, has been brought to a point that she couldn`t accept anymore. Don`t you think she has tried him to change? It sure is likely...
Take a look at the two of you in a rational way; Singles with a "history" that has been not so good, but enough money to place yourself above the class where you have been born. The traditional neighbourhood(s) where you both have been born shall adore you and worship you as King and Queen, because you have what they don`t have. But the people of the higher classes will look at you in another way; money but not the class in lifestyle. So the futurious partners shall be limited, because of that background and the lifes you have had.
You can try to get involved with him, you have the same background, the same culture, the same way of thinking, many similarities, think you can avoid a lot of problems that you should have when you should meet somebody from another class. it will be a marriage where both families can agree with. Probably they even are happy with it. But DO NOT think you can change him!!! Only when he wants it himself...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I see the whole situation like this: I believe and I am pretty certain that somehow you had feelings for this man when he was still your employer.
Your ways parted and now that you saw him again all these very much hidden feelings come out again.
Now the question is: Do you want to let them show? Would you like to pursue a relationship with him?
You are well aware that he's divorced now (and he made sure you know), might still has a drinking problem (are you in it to probably have to live with an alcoholic?)
Grant it and you experienced this before, the man can be the best person when he's sober but don't let him start drinking. I think that's the major problem here. I hope he's in therapy already.
Obviously you feel for each other; actually from your wording it sounds like you are very attracted to him in any way. I think you should go ahead and meet him again. You'll find out more and decide if you wanna go ahead with a relationship with him or not. Discuss together possiblilties. If it's meant to be it will. But you must remember that dreams and reality can be many miles apart from each other.
Good luck.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I have had ONLY business relationship with him during my job - 100% He unlike other men did not flirt with me. He focused on my professional development mainly. He would train me personally so that I can get in line and compete with people who already had experience. I noticed he is observing me during my work and I always thought he is just watching me professionally. He was strict to me in job environment, but not so strict with other employees, and he would bring me for "serious talk" often explaing to me again and again, he wants the best for me so to know it's not that he dislikes me or so...
His weakness was that he could not handle much seeing me talking with other men at work place. he just can't help it. He makes drama about it. He also would not hire any applicant that I said I like, especially if the person in question is a good looking man. If I say, this guy is soooo nice I like him, hire him, he would immediatelly chose another one, complete opposite of the one I suggested. These are the only things that I noticed unsual, and I wondered why is he doing this? However, he had never said anything or showed me directly. I have never expected to become a part of his life and probably he had never expected to be divorced. Life is unpredictable. Everything is possible. Who would imagine him being divorced? I did not.
Since he was "married" at that time, I did not have interest in him as my potential significant other because I can't possibly be with a married man, that's forbiden to me for various reasons. I also did not know much about his life, I was not interested. He is already changed. He needs to keep changing to better himself, we are always looking for improvements. You were saying that people of the higher classes will look at us in another way; money but not the class in lifestyle. So the futurious partners shall be limited, because of that background and the lifes you have had.
If my life journey involves a man who had enough strength to overcome various challanges in his life, and remained a man who is striving to improve with pride and dignity and he takes responsibility for his actions, I am happy. Degree of what's classy is subjective, and in comparison with other people of my age and people who made various choices in life I turned out to be pretty good. You also said that our family would agree ( I don't even know if he is pursuing and if he is interested for real ... ) but if that is the case, yes my family and his family would be happy that we ended up together.
Now don't you think that life holds all possibilities? Who would ever think that his marriage would be over and that I would visit his restaurant after 2 years to have a dinner, that we would meet, and laugh so much, after being so determined that I am angry at him for molding me into a professional I became? You see what I mean.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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I think you already are in love, and that you`re Wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin' Plannin' and dreaming each night of his charms That won't get you into his arms....
It should be a relationship without secrets because you both know what has been happened during your lifes, and, as i already said, with a similar background. Only that addiction. I assume you`re both living outside of Egypt, because an alchol-addiction in Egypt seems very unlikely, but the common rule is: Once addicted, an addict forever. 99% of all addicted people faile in their attempts to quit. Source: Director of an addiction-clinic.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Hi ????? reading your reply,and burst into song,cant get the tune out of my head now,trying to think who sung it.
Posts: 126 | From: england | Registered: May 2007
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Several. I think Dusty Springfield was the original...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Am I in love? I would rather say that I feel an excitment. I don't want to rush and fall too hard too soon. Although it's very hard for me to skip this Friday I am thinking to go next Friday instead. I don't want to risk it, and put myself in akward situation. I want him to try again to show me how much he likes me, and I will give him another opportunity for that, instead of me going to him and waiting for him to act. What if he doesn't act at all? This would make me feel dissapointed and I don't want to feel that way.
I want him to ask me out. That would be clear indication to me that he is really interested. There is a beautiful feeling of being "liked" though. I listen to his CD on my way to work, it simply mesmerizes me.
There are tons of women who rushed too soon when he is in question, and I surelly don't want to be one of them. He will have an opportunity to explore his feelings, and pursue me. He is not type of man to run after. He likes attention but he would not be really interested seriously. I can't possibly risk and become just like any other. And from my experience whenever I did pursue it did not work out, and I felt bad at the end, so no, he got to do it. He may be little upset about me not showing up this Friday, so when I do show up NEXT Friday, he will realize if he missed me, if he is really interested.
If I take from him an opportunity to pursue me, he will never have a chance to know how he really feels about me. What probably turns men off most is showing a desperate need for attention and affection SO I am not going to make it happen that way. In the other hand I am afraid that he may be discouraged, but than again... if he is really interested he will look forward to find the way hot to get to me. The same way he burned CD right there while I was having dinner because he saw that as 1 chance to personally approach me and talk to me. If he did not approach, nothing would happen because I would not approach either. So he knew that when I asked for CD, that was a perfect opportunity for him, and he will get another one... next Friday. I will show up one more time as I told him, that's his chance.
In regards of his possible addiction, I will have to do some research and prepeare myself how to talk to him on this matter in order to further resolve it. This has to be resolved 1st and I am optimistic because unless you try you don't really know. I do believe people can make improvements and change their habits as drinking is unhealthy and it has many consequences, however person needs to have a support and social network to support him in bad times. He can do it if he really really wants to do it. I got to find out what excatly had happened in his life, to open the subject and figure out why he is drinking. He already told me last time he wants to quit smoking, so I do believe that divorce was one of many events in his life that were happening in order for him to begin the new chapter in his life.
If I see that he is unwilling to do all it takes, I would be his friend, and help him in any way I can, but I would not get into romance until he does what's necessary because that would be too hurtful for me. And again, he doesn't look like alcoholic, he looks just like any regular cool guy. He is also aware of his drinking problem, he also tries to watch when and how he drinks ( people call drinks to him all the time, he always say no ) he is fighting it, I know that even from before, but for this type of serious addictions, there needs to be social and professional support. Drinking is a way for person to forget all problems and run away from the pain. So it has reasons, it's not simple to quit addiction, and yes he must want to change, otherwise all work would be fruitless.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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One time I was looking at a man who was trying to interest a lady. No trouble was to much, he was very obligingly, attentive, nice, well mannered. Because I knew him in his daily life I looked amused, I suppose. Another one, who noticed the amused look on my face, explained his behaviour in a cynical way and predicted that it would be over as soon as he got her where he wanted... Number one heard what he said and justified himself by saying that he was an Egyptian man, and a hunter by nature... So, if you want to act as an prey, show up at the time he asked you...
That`s my opinion.
But I really think you are focousing to much on the issue he is seriously or not. You have to focous on the yourself. When he still is the man he always has been, he is not acceptable for you. So, is he changed? Or is it still the charming rich businessman with tons of women? Figure that out before getting seriously...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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So what do you think would happen if I don't show up this Friday?
To my knowledge, he is Single and available which he made sure to tell me during the dinner. I also asked about his Single life. He stated that although having freedom is appealing, he would love to have someone in his life. I know when I worked in his company he attracted tons of women mainly because he always had money and most of these women wanted wealthy men to provide for them, or get things for free. He knows this. He is single 2 years already after being divorced, and if he had any intentions to remain Single, I am pretty much sure his answer would differ.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I do agree with you that his drinking problem must be resolved, and I forgot to ask him about it when I saw him, maybe he is not drinking any more, he gained some weight and appeared to look healthier than before. But when I go and see him next week ( if I go ) I would watch him and observe his behavior and I would ask him, could he stop if he already did not.
I am not an angel, I did so many things in my life I should not have done, so other people too. .[/b]
Just my opinion, I hate when women (or men) say this. What is that supposed to mean? Just because you made mistakes it's ok with you that he has made some too because now you know everyone can change? I don't buy it, I think that's just an excuse to do what you want to do. I would NEVER date or be interested in a man who ever had a drinking problem, I've seen it before and it's super ugly. Also, if he was overly friendly with you while he was married, why would you be interested in a man with so low morale fibre? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I think nothing will happen when you don`t show up, nothing will happen untill YOU show up again. When YOU show up, he will know you`re interested. Simple as that. But, you ARE interested. And you want to know what kind of man he is now. You hope he has changed like you did. And how likely is that? Not enough for his wife anyway... A middle-aged man with an alcoholproblem, and all the midlife thoughts in mind... With a past that is not like a Mr. Perfect... You`re willing to get involved with Mr. Problem and you want him to be a Mr. Perfect... What did cause all his problems, do you think? Is that changed?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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So you have never made any mistakes in your life? If you really have never made any mistake, than you must be a perfect human being. I am not perfect human being, he is not perfect human being and we don't know anyone who is perfect except God Himself. The fact that I admit it publicly and take responsibility for it only shows I learned and changed. You may hold grudges and hate people who changed after they have made bad choices, but in that case you would hate yourself and the whole world. And be aware that smoking, drinking and dress code I used to have are pretty acceptable in my culture, and his as well. In comparsion with so many other things, these are pretty common situations that people go through in life. I have tons of friends who smoke, drink and wear mini skirts, so....? This is their decision how they lead their life. I still can't judge their Soul based on that.
I never thought he was overly friendly with me. I thought he was strict. Also, his ex wife had pretty much everything she wanted. I pretty much worked very hard for my success. You see, some people get it easily and some work hard, the ones who get is easily lose it easily because they have never earned it in the 1st place, and those who earned it even when they lose it, know how to get it back, so surely he will be even richer no matter what was result of divorce. There were many women who wanted to be in her place, no matter how her place looked ugly to her. And, surelly I was not the one who run after him for money or stability, I was the one whom he trained and thought lessons about how to become professionally successful and make it on your own. His attitude towards me showed his values. He respected me enough not to flirt with me. From where and from which example you saw his overfriendliness? I am always excited to hear about it.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Everyone makes mistakes and has messed up...it isn't an issue of him not being perfect, do you think he would be perfect for YOU ? If so, knock yourself out...otherwise why waste your time finding out the imperfections you have not seen yet, only the surface ones? Remember, for every rat you see, there's 50 others you don't see. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I don't think you can expect Mr. Perfect (after all there is NO PERFECT man out in this world ) but indeed you can get to know him better.
Through your words I can see you very much appreciate him, they way how he guided and teached you while he was your employer, you like his wisdom, personality and "and tons of good qualities" (I quoted you here).
Well well, go and see him again, if you need another or more weeks to make up your mind, push the visit off. But don't expect too much of the outcome, really see if he's trying to pursue you hard this time or not. Then you have the answer.
I do believe you went for a reason back to his restaurant even when you denied it in your first post - and that's okay. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Why are you bringing his wife into the present when she is clearly for him and everyone else simply the history, she is the past. She lived with him and he lived with her since he was 19 years old. The life circumstances brought them to end their life journey together 2 years ago, and now he is free man and she is free woman. She got 1/2 of whatever they have made, she is financially secure and can have life she wants with a man she finds better for her. He is happy because he told me, life is too short to spend it with someone with whom you can't live and experience happiness. He tried, she tried, it's over. He wants now to have someone special in his life, after 2 years of being offically single, and years and years of being unhappily married together.
Now, life itself brought to him new things and people, probably to her as well. I am not also sure who divorced whom if that's relevant to you, I heard he divorced her, but I am not sure. I can't recall, and I haven't asked him details. It could be opposite, I can ask. He is happy about this choice, and there is no more love between them. He is sure that this was the right thing to do. Accidentely or by Faith, I came into the picture without any plans, after the fact! It just happened that after 2 years I for no reason go there and meet him again by coincidence. She probably has someone else already. So..... ? I don't see them as losers, I see them as both winners because they both got what they wanted.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Mistakes is something else as a wrong way to live.Mistakes are for once, as an usefull expierence. The difference between getting druk once, and never drink so much again, and an alcohol problem, the difference between having an affair and having tons of women while married,to stay in the same subject... One is a mistake, two is a life-attitude. Yes, indeed everybody makes mistakes, but not everybody messes up his life and his families life! Because that is what he did too, he didn`t only mess up his life, he messed up the lifes of his wife and children at the same time. And you hope and pray he has seen the light and reached the final point to change, based on one friendly conversation after two years of absence, and a cd he burned... IF he indeed has changed you are pretty similar. If he has not, there are less similarities and they seem to be not acceptable to you. So, THINK before you follow your hormones the day after tomorrow...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Oh, come on, don't be so harsh on her. WE don't know what really let their marriage collapse. And his wife is indeed history. Their relationship didn't work out.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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It would be ideal if every single human being has perfect life style, perfect for me, perfect for my father and mother, perfect for his father and mother, for our chidlren, for our friends, people we work with, strangers. But reality is, people are each individually 1) finding themselves in their own life for years, changing and maturing, year by year until they reach their potential 2) life around us and circumstances influence our minds, thoughts, actions, beliefs, emotions, even temperature can make people more aggressive, lack of love, attachment, family, support, Geee, I can mention tons of reasons how even deprivation of sleep can make people act totally weird. Drinking is another factor. Now should I hate person knowing that "something" is clearly influencing his actions, judgments and so on?
I hate alcohol, wish it's never been produced and presented to human race. Have you ever seen a young woman or man drunk on the train after the game or party? They don't act as themselves. They are under influence of alcohol. So I don't hate person, I hate alcohol and it's effects!
Ideally I would love this man to be "perfect", to say "No" to all things each and every time, that are bad for him or anyone else as the matter of fact, however I immediatelly have to expect the very same thing from myself. The truth is I myself, could not always say No to all things that are bad for me. He would be perfect to me if he had never did any mistake according to my beliefs and my ideas of what's perfect to me. But reality is that we can't be possibly perfect for everyone, this is the life journey in which your job is to learn and become closest to your best self.
I mentioned tons of his good qualities, such as his generousity! I can guarantee you that there are very small percentage of ANY MEN regardless if they drink or not who has such a big heart as he does. Drinking is only 1 aspect, it's his weakness and we all have weaknesses. There are other aspects of his character that are great qualities as well. He is not strong enough to deal with life situations normally like me and you, he finds solutions in other things such as drinking. He doesn't want this to happen, but it happens to him. This is his weakness.
But! Don't forget, he is struggling to make a difference, and it's not that he is so ignorant and would not do a thing about this issue. I also don't even know if he is actually drinking now, because it could be that he quit totally. So I already mentioned I would observe his behavior and see on Friday how he acts and does he drink. I am not exusing his behavior in any shape or form, I am just very realistic, we can't expect perfection but constant improvements, drinking is bad, alcohol is terrible, should be banned completely, he must work on this issue and I believe he can do it.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Come on, who ya kidding? Yourself??? You didnt run in to him on "coincidence". You went there looking for him. Why bother posting asking peoples opinions when you already have something made up in your mind I never understand when women do this here. Here's my opinion-If he wanted you, he would have come to find you. If you were his protige, he would have kept in touch. His wife got rid of him cause he's a lousy drunk, you think that he will do any different with you?? Some women believe the love from the right woman, like themself, can be the life changing thing that will make a man stand up and say" This is what I've been waiting for, her love has the power to "heal me" . I say thats pretty egotistical outlook and usually ends up a woman in a physch unit or the very least taking a hard fall from her pedestal. A man NEVER changes ,especially an Alcoholic, for anyone else until he is ready to change. Leopards Never change their spots and that is the truth. He didnt do it for her and you placing blame on the wife shows you have warped sense of reality and a lack of character.You are fooling yourself, but hey, your gonna do it anyway, so go right ahead and do it. Being muslim doesnt have anything to do with it,if it did then he wouldnt have been drinking in the first place and placed alcohol above the value of his family and Allah.Good luck to ya.................
Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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I do believe you went for a reason back to his restaurant even when you denied it in your first post - and that's okay.
I don't know yet why did I go after 2 years. If I went there for a "reason", I am unaware of that "reason" as of yet. What's your idea?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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My dear lovingmylife! A drinking-problem is a signal for being unable to handle problems in life.For any addiction counts: when the person does not admit he has problems, and he doesn`t find a way to handle that problems, the addiction will stay. Maybe there will be an ability to controll it, even for a long period, but as long he didn`t change his way to handle, he at least will keep that weakness:alcohol.(Or any other addiction, like gambling, drugs) I told you the accurate number of successes in getting an addict that far that he/she will get rid of that addiction, and they are given by somebody who knows.
So, he has had problems, and maybe he still has.He wasn`t able to handle his problems, and maybe he still isn`t.
It is very dangerous to think that you are the one who can change him, and I`m talking by expierence!
This is all by the way, because for you it seems to be most important to figure out wether he is seriously interested in you or not. And you want to avoid to become one of the many women he has already had in life.
I can`t tell you. You can figure that out for yourself. But you have to realise that, when you`re starting to give it a try, you will step into his messy life and become emotionally involved. And regarding his charming personality you might step into a period as his wife did. That it took so many years to realise that it all was not she thought it was. And that hurts...
You`re a business-woman, you must have taken many important steps in life. You probably are not afraid to take a risk and feel the pain when it goes wrong. It is all up to YOU...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I really find it strange when someone who is not familiar with "my religion" finds it amuzing to tell me ( preach me ) what should I believe and place above of what. Lady, don't act like Jesus Christ, or prophet, you really don't know who is more religious, maybe you need 10 more lives to reach my spiritual level, and probably 20 more years to stop judging people based on my religion you obviously fully don't understand!
Do you understand that what is happening between me and him after 2 years and his divorce is God's Will?
1st - God loves me and loves him obviously, and you have no evidence to prove otherwise. Because if he was such a bad person I am sure he would not help so many people throughout his life. His family had pretty much lots of things that other families could not afford. If he placed alcohol above of his family his family would have nothing and would be living on the streets homeless. In reality his family is wealtier than most of other people I know. He supported so many people including her family too. When it comes to Allah, I assure you that between him and you, Allah would chose him. I just think that if he would reply to the very same question, he would not have been so unkind.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I do believe you went for a reason back to his restaurant even when you denied it in your first post - and that's okay.
I don't know yet why did I go after 2 years. If I went there for a "reason", I am unaware of that "reason" as of yet. What's your idea?
Your kidding right?? Wow, a classic co-dependent relationship in the making right before our very eyes!! How does the saying go......The dumb get dumber and the blind lead the blind . Shock therapy will probably do you a world of good. I bet those Pesky Pink elephants live in your world on a daily basis Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I really find it strange when someone who is not familiar with "my religion" finds it amuzing to tell me ( preach me ) what should I believe and place above of what. Lady, don't act like Jesus Christ, or prophet, you really don't know who is more religious, maybe you need 10 more lives to reach my spiritual level, and probably 20 more years to stop judging people based on my religion you obviously fully don't understand!
Do you understand that what is happening between me and him after 2 years and his divorce is God's Will?
1st - God loves me and loves him obviously, and you have no evidence to prove otherwise. Because if he was such a bad person I am sure he would not help so many people throughout his life. His family had pretty much lots of things that other families could not afford. If he placed alcohol above of his family his family would have nothing and would be living on the streets homeless. In reality his family is wealtier than most of other people I know. He supported so many people including her family too. When it comes to Allah, I assure you that between him and you, Allah would chose him. I just think that if he would reply to the very same question, he would not have been so unkind.
If you've reached such a "HIGHER SPIRITUAL LEVEL" then why do you ask the advice from a bunch strangers on a forum group, you should SPIRITUALLY know the answers to which you seek, OH GREAT ONE Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lovingmylife, you need to get busy and find out the answers yourself you so desperately want.
Good luck and as I said above - if it's meant to happen it will.
Just as a sidenote which ????? already mentioned: It's hard to stay away from a person you are very attracted to, you even love when this person has a substance abuse/gambling problem or else. You feel sorry and believe this person needs you, you can make a difference, he doesn't have anyone else in his life, it will all work out.....
But be careful. When getting involved with a person like that you run the risk to get stucked in some kind of emotional dependency which means before you know you are involved in a hurtful relationship without a future and you can't leave because you feel responsible for the other half. We women are such easy targets.
You just need to know what you are might getting yourself into.
Now I don't want to paint everything black here. He might already took charge to end his drinking problem. If I am correct people put on weight when the stop drinking but you can't take this as an indicator. Once you more comfortable talking with him you address the issue and see how he reacts.
Just don't fall blindly in love now.... I know it's hard.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sure I want to know if he is pursuing... or what, but nobody here is answering on that question. I think you missunderstood that I want to change him. I am not in his life neither he is in mine to change each other.
To change a person you use any means you have and are available to you because you want that person to change, more likely for you. To influence means to set appropriate environment to bring, guide and lead person by your charisma and wisdom, by anything that persons sees in you to influence the person to see things and feel what's possible for them to be better on their own. It's not for you primarily, it's for them.
Some change instantly, some fail 1st then they change. Some never change...everyone is different. I got to talk to him next Friday as this Friday I am not sure if I am really ready to go. I need some time to think about it, although I have a huge urge to go, at the same time I feel I need to pull back and go next week instead. That would be better I think. I'll see...
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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How can we tell you he is pursuing? Possibly he is, maybe he isn`t. You`ve worked with him, and you know him well. And you are doubting about it. Time will tell... And for the rest, it`s your own decision. What to accept and what not. You`re stepping into in with full knowledge about the man, the history about him, and probably will far more what to excpect then we do. Have you been married before? Does he know your history?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Wow. Im sorry for all the good advice put in such a negative light. Let me see if I can explain what I think in a proper way.
1. You are attracted to this man, this is obvious. Doesn't matter WHY you went to that restaurant. Maybe you hoped to run into him. Who knows..who cares. What matters is you DID and he wants to see you again. You should go and see where this leads. You need to see if he has made those changes. You need to pray and seek Allahs will. It will become clear and what Allah has planned for you will come.
2. He IS an Addict. I agree...once an addict ALWAYS an addict. BUT that doesn't mean he can't control it. Just means you have to decide if its right for YOU to bring this into your life. Are you strong enough to walk away if you need to? If not...don't get involved. Seek your guidance from Allah. IF this man is doing ANYTHING against ALLAHS commands, stay away. Simply running into each other may not mean its Allahs will to get involved deeply. Onlly you can understand where Allah is leading you. But as a Muslimah myself, I'd want a man that can LEAD our family. Remember in Islam its HIS responsibility to lead you, guide you and teach you. HOw can he do that when he can't control his own addiction. Time will tell on this issue. You just need to decide if you are strong enough to walk away if you need to. And seek Allahs ways in choosing a partner. That means...you should view this man as a possible partner in life...IS he walking in Allahs ways NOW? If not..run. If he is and intends to do so...find out more. Just be careful. Allah works His own way and you will be in my prayers for guidance.
3. We ALL not only make mistakes, but many of us have lived wrong ways and changed them. I know of someone...sweet girl...turned Stripper, who cheated on her husband twice. She hung in there, changed her life completely, stayed with her husband who forgave her. They now have 2 wonderful sons and they both lead spiritually enriched lives. I to lived in a way I should not have...and with Allahs guidance am changed. HOWEVER I still battle those old demons and ways. Its a day to day giving to Allah of those things. But HE has to be DOING that NOW.
4. Don't get involved hoping to change him or thinking he would love you enough to change for you. Doesn't work. I know. Married an abusive man..who said he had changed. And for a while all was wonderful. Till his son came to live with us and he abused his son, controlled me and became more selfish then I ever thought possible and cheated on me with his ex wife. I was shocked. I was soo convinced he loved me enough that he'd never ever do any of those things. Be careful is all Im saying. Really think before you get involved. Set aside your FEELINGS. And THINK.
Good Luck and may Allah lead and guide you as you find HIS ways in your life.
Salam Alaikum
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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By the way to ANSWER your question. I don't know if he's persuing you. Go again. Thank him in person for the CD. THIS time before you leave, GIVE him your phone number and ASK him to stay in touch. THen sit back and wait. Next move is his. THATS how you will know if he has a real interest or was just being friendly. Tell him you enjoyed your time. Just go and see what happens. But hard to say if he's actually PERSUING you. Good luck
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I don't like the fact that he is drinking, and I saw him 'drunk' once in a while, he appears very ok, the only thing is he gets little more 'romantic', and reveals his emotional side more.
He is not aggressive. He doesn't fight. He writes music.
The thing about him is that he doesn't remember anything after he gets sober.
I can't pursue him ( can't give him my number, can approach him so directly and say everything, can't tell him keep in touch, can't pursue him or initiate etc ).
I can: - show up again next Friday and skip this Friday - show up this Friday ( still thinking about it, should I, or should I not ). - write him an email saying thank you, and give him some comments of encouragment about his new chapter of life based on what we talked. - give him opportunity to pursue me
In other words, I can only respond, but can not initiate.Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Why can`t you give him your number, tell him to keep in touch, pursue him or initiate him??? Is there somebody else?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I cant because he as a man needs to pursue and initiate. I can give him opportunities to do show me that he likes me and that he wants to be with me. I already gave him one, and I'll give him one more. I also think I would look so stupid giving him my number and asking to be in touch. That's not me. I can give him my number if he asks me.
I want to build anticipation and excitment ( passion )and for those levels you got to be more subtle, more sophisticated. I am not in a hurry, it's about quality of feelings you get not about speed. They way how we connect now is crucial for later.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lml, you want this man, you are building him up in your imagination. I don't think he is pursuing you by any means, but you are indirectly pursuing him... which is fine. Give him the chance to 'initiate' (although you've already initiated, imho) and pursue you back. Don't go this Friday, go next Friday to build up anticipation but tell yourself it's just casual, instead of creating this great heroic figure over the next week.
If he 'initiates' as you would like, be careful not to fall madly in love until you find out if he really is cured of his drinking habit.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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If he was pursuing you he would: call you many times wait for you downstairs sms you a lot email you many times find you by all means ask you out very soon send you flowers when he finds your address hire a detective to follow you send you food delivered to your door with a card Number 1 fan buy you a ring and slip it in a glass of champagne or coke or whatever your fav drink is and come to your door and give it to you Shall I add more? Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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he would send you electronic postcards send you gifts sing you a song and burn it on a CD send you his mother to meet you Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I cant because he as a man needs to pursue and initiate. I can give him opportunities to do show me that he likes me and that he wants to be with me. I already gave him one, and I'll give him one more. I also think I would look so stupid giving him my number and asking to be in touch. That's not me. I can give him my number if he asks me.
I want to build anticipation and excitment ( passion )and for those levels you got to be more subtle, more sophisticated. I am not in a hurry, it's about quality of feelings you get not about speed. They way how we connect now is crucial for later.
Ah, that`s why...playing the game of hard to get vs possibly available. But, you didn`t answer my question. You seem to know all about his past, does he knows yours?
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I don't date casually. I am just responding by going back as he initiated, otherwise I would not go. We also met the 1st time after 2 years. At least he expressed wish to see me again and had specific time frame in question. In regards of examples of showing a man's affection that's cute, however age matters a lot too. For instance I would not want a man to run after me and show me signs of compulsive-obssession with me, That would scare me off. So his way works for me, because he shows but he doesn't tell, thus leaving me with wanting more.
Playing hard to get or being in reality hard to get. I have dignity and lots of experience, thus I know what works for me and what doesn't. To some people certain aspect is fantastic, to others it's not. I tend not to initiate and pursue man with tons of romantic love letters, expressions of undying love and how I can't sleep, eat and live without him. In fact, it's just the opposite. I am happy regardless. I don't jump into anything so easily, I do want deeper levels of affection thus my behavior is nothing else but result of all my beliefs and ideas of what I need from him, and apparently I need quality, not quantity. For that you can't act like you wish, you must know what's necessary to build up that kind of relationship. At least I know.
In regards of does he know about my past? I believe that whole purpose of our conversation is to find out if I am available. So yes, I told him everything he wanted to know. He was very focused on my ex, for instance it was imortant for him to know, how long ago I saw him, is he happy with someone else, married with someone else, what life he has, how far he lives from me, and so on. To me that was clear indication that he wants to make sure before getting involved who belongs to whom. This question most of guys who are not intersted don't bother to ask. He was very detailed, and I knw what is he up to just by the fact that he wanted to know. Why would a man want to know? Take a notice, I haven't asked him much about his ex! Thus he is possibly more interested? More territorial? Or both... If he wasn't interested we would not talk about such personal things.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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That`s right... Nevertheless you are doubting. Because you want to know for sure that it is serious, and that he has changed. When you are willing to take the risk, go. But it will make you vulnerable...and he will know that by then...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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You always have some good questions. Let me explain. I am not doubting if he is serious about me. It's not him who decides what kind of relationship he can have with me. It's up to me to give a clear understaning what I want in my life.
The way he treated me in the past reflects that he was respectful of me. He has an idea about who I am. What I am unsure about is this. I am asking is he pursuing me, or I am imagining? This is because I have hard time to see when a man is pursuing me, or he is just friendly. I often think hey he is just friendly, but many people would say to me I often have tendency not to see it, even when it's obvious. Or maybe I am imagining, maybe he is just friendly and all what took place, wasn't indiciation that he is interested. All his questions that shows interest were just curiosity, his attitude was not showing in any way any special treatment, he simply was nice to me because he is nice to everyone. You see what I mean.
It's hard to see it for me, because he is not saying it directly thus I wonder. I possibly do the same, maybe I make him wonder too. He probably felt flattered that I asked thus I revealed my interest, but he doesn't know that for sure because I did not tell him that. Did he ask me to come back because he wants to see me again and he has a plan, or he asked me because he just invites everyone to come back?
If he is really pursuing me, I said I am happy and would be greatful. I would take all love he has to give. If he is pursuing, I don't doubt his affection, I just can't believe that after 2 years all this took place so unplanned, thus it's hard for me to comprehend as I have never expected or thought this is going to happen. I did not wait 2 years so that I on such and such date go and see him. I simply came home, felt for no reason whatsoever to go out somewhere, I thought hmm I haven't been in that place for ages, took a cab and went with companion for dinner. I did not know he will be there. It was a coincidence, or in another words, all this happened at the right time. Maybe if we met 5 years from now, maybe it would be same as this time, however timing is perfect as he is now available and ready for new chapter in his life, and I came at the right time. I simply showed up, and events start unfolding immediatelly as if this was meant to be.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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You say he has had tons of women in his life, so I think he will have no problem to make his thoughts clear, whenever he wants so, he is an expierenced man! There will be no space for imagination in this! You, for yourself, also claim to be expierenced. So, how did you do that, when you`re having problems with calculating intentions? You only have to know what you want, and time will tell... If you want,try to sit back and wait what time will tell, without laying to much emotions in it... Wish you good luck.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I did not say he had tons of women in his life. You know what. Let me tell you this. If you yourself had a problem in your life with a man who left you or whatever had happened in your life, why don't you keep your negativity towards those who hurt you because I have nothing to do with your man and your past. You judge not only me, but him as well just because there is a possibility that me and him will end up together and you for some reason just can't stand that we might be VERY HAPPY.
I am not you, and I don't have your frame of mind. If I am experienced so what, and if he is interested in me and he likes me so what?! I am excited and little nervous because I like him too, soo........ ? Why is this unusual to you? What part of my question and experince you don't get? You are trying to say that he is a bad man and womanizer, listen. I know who this man is and you don't. You can only believe me when I speak of him, and take it as it is, or you have a choice as you are doing it persistenly to portray this love story and romance as some cheap flirting that will end sour between an "alcoholic" Muslim man and a manipulating caluculating Muslim woman, while his ex wife some poor victim whose life is distroyed because marriage was not meant to be. I don't need you to be so judgmental. He is divorced, get over it. If you don't like the fact that we are possibly falling in love then you have issues that has nothing to do with me.
... and if I asked question, and I am very honest, that doesn't mean I am bad person who should tell you what you want to hear. I am not going to abandon this just because you don't believe in it, because you had bad experience with your man and you incapable of believing that someone else might be so very happy with a man you dislike so much. If his wife did not like him, so what.... I like him. If I don't like my ex, so what.... his new fiance likes him. People are not all made for each other, we have different ideas, actions, thoughts and lives. Maybe I can understand why your husband abandoned you, look you are very judgemental. Not many people can maintain a friendship with someone who is persistently trying to prove me that I am bad woman for wanting to be with a man I believe is good person.
Also, you asked me many questions, some of them were great, but so many were of personal nature, and I answered on 99% of them. Yet you have no respect to understand that you really don't know who I am and you should not be so intrusive. You ask for the sake of curiousty and to use that information once again to judge me over and over again. I am not here for that reason lady!
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I don't buy it, I think that's just an excuse to do what you want to do. I would NEVER date or be interested in a man who ever had a drinking problem, I've seen it before and it's super ugly. Also, if he was overly friendly with you while he was married, why would you be interested in a man with so low morale fibre? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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. I say thats pretty egotistical outlook and usually ends up a woman in a physch unit or the very least taking a hard fall from her pedestal. A man NEVER changes ,especially an Alcoholic, for anyone else until he is ready to change. Leopards Never change their spots and that is the truth. He didnt do it for her and you placing blame on the wife shows you have warped sense of reality and a lack of character.You are fooling yourself, but hey, your gonna do it anyway, so go right ahead and do it. Being muslim doesnt have anything to do with it,if it did then he wouldnt have been drinking in the first place and placed alcohol above the value of his family and Allah.Good luck to ya.................
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