posted
Also, the term a 'good' family, in Egypt it means someone that has a family of good reputation, no drugs, no problems with the law, a family that established its credibility, a family that struggles and stands by their children, supporting them.
In many cases, struggle to get them through a high education to be able to have a good life.
A family that has high morals, that would not tolerate their sons to go pick up girls at bars, and then live off their money a family that would not tolerate that their daughters go out half naked alone, and flirt all over the place; ...a good family can also mean a family that has also achieved a lot in terms of education, in terms of profession etc..and would be extremely disappointed if the children would bring home some 'parasites' that live off other people's money, or some drunk, or some gigolo, or some loser, or some call girl.
Posts: 919 | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by walkingathinline: why does a man have to have a car and an education to be a "good" person??? just because someone is poor doesn't mean they are bad!!
and how can you judge a person by just looking at him that he doesn't come from a good family or have a good job...i see lots of "educated" men driving in cars with a crappy fashion sense. if someone wears jeans and a t-shirt do you consider them bad???
you use the word "seem" a lot...i can understand if you actually talk to a person and hear their dialect, grammer, etc (but that would only give a clue as to their education level)...but to just look at someone and decide they are bad??? i think we had this discussion in another thread and as a westerner, no, i can't discern from an egyptian's speech if he is "low" class or not; but just because someone doesn't have an education or a car or dresses poorly, does NOT make that person bad. i lived in a village for 3 months and everyone was poor...concrete floors, 9 people in a 2-bedroom house...most were illiterate...but they were good, nice people. i'd rather be with poor, uneducated people who treat me nicely and are kind than with rich, educated people who look down on everyone.
Good point, WTL. This was the hardest thing I had to get used to on ES. I came from a" poor "family,and I am now educated with a good career. Does that mean because I came from a "poor" family that I am low class?? It actually is quite ridiculous, however we know that egypt is not the same country with this aspect-look at the caste system in India. Born in the same caste you are that your whole life unless you leave and start in another country.
We also know here that being wealthy doesnt neccessarily show class. I've met people with money who are absolute trash, have no morals and absolutely are disgusting human beings, and if you look many have come from wonderful families. But yet, they must be good people because they have money and come from "good people" , right??
Unfortunately, I think most western woman don't judge on job status and family backround because here it's different. Most of the time we don't judge people on factors such as type of job and family backround and I think this is where the problem comes in to play.WE go to another country and judge men we meet as how we are used to viewing men here..
However, in this case, it's obvious that she is being played. Most normal men do have a sense of pride when it comes to money matters. If a decent man here for instance loses his job because of downsizing or something to that effect, he generally will do everything he can-send resumes, continue education, and generally have a sense of embarrassment. They won't take handouts without a problem-in any culture this is considered to be a loser. Also, many women here also have careers and many times we happen to earn more money than the man we are involved with. That happens frequently and does not indicate their character.It's not about backround, parents or class-most of the time it just comes down to them being a lazy player with a lack of character-bottom dwellers. Another point is that even the nicest of people can take advantage-we value more what we have to work for..
Good example is a dear friend of mine. He doesn't have a car but he does have job and is a wonderful person. Someone who looks at him and says " what a loser, he doesn't even own a car" just takes a surface look. The person who looks beyond this and gets to know him then finds out that he was in a bad accident in which his fiancee was killed, he was in a coma for a month and almost died too. He cannot bring himself to get behind the wheel of a vehicle, even after multiple attempts to do so. So the person who just judges him by this small fact as "low class" is really the loser, IMO...
Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I never intended for people to argue on this but it is an interesting discussion.
While i have been in egypt i have certainly learnt alot from these people and yes obviously the culture is very different but i believe my my guy is a good guy. Yes he worked on a boat and didnt have much hope of better prospects, i see that and while i was there i was approached by 6 men on the boat, they were all the same asking for "love" and saying how beautiful you are, they do this with all women of all nationalities. My guy was infact the only one not to pester me and look desperate, infact i appraoched him and i can see that this situation is my own doing entirely, though now looking back i can see that i did the wrong thing offering him too much in the way of a better life.
I can also see that yes there are those men out there that prey on tourists and that there are decent men too rich and poor.
I never thought that i would have a relationship with a poor man, i mean in England i am not rich but i get by.
There has been a big culture clash, he is muslim and i am Chrtistian but he hasnt stopped me from talking about my religion, i even told him about Easter and he listened to me but we just agree to differ on religion.
I have found it hard to be expected to act like an Egyptian women too because i am not and in time we have come to some compromises even though i still find his jealousy of me hard to deal with at times.
Yes i can see that i made a big mistake in regards to money but if he really wants me he will buck up his ideas and start working and contributing to our life and he knows this.
Posts: 30 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Egyptians can tell who is considered good Egyptian and who is bad.
Those kind of guys wont ever get married to a good Egyptian girl from a good family because they are coming from different background, lower standard and they cant afford to get married: no house, no car and no good job, so the easiest thing is to find a western woman, marry her, go to her country, live in her house then look for a job, make good money, save some money then divorce her and come back to Egypt to marry that Egyptian girl who refused to marry him when he was poor and got no money!
Western women know nothing about Egyptian men and how to tell if this man is coming from good or bad background that's why they come here to ES crying afterwards. After they find out that they have been used for money or visa or sex and that he was fooling her and using her from day one!
Posts: 504 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Rent 15 L.E (old rent law for a 2 room apartment in a gutter neighborhood where you neighbors are Sudanese refugees)
Electric 15 L.E
Internet 50 L.E (shared) your husband needs it to check on ES and see if he can find an alternative source of income
Water 2 L.E
Gas 12 L.E for 1 cylinder 6 chickens x 25 l.E = 150 l.E
Fuul and bread for breakfast every single morning 1.5 l.E x 30 = 45 l.E
10 kilograms tomatoes, 10 kilograms cumcumbers for the daily salad 1.25 x 30 = 37.50
Sugar, cooking oil, = 25 l.E
So far it comes out to 339.50 l.E
90 L.E is for transportation on microbuses
10 l.E is your own money to buy whatever you want The total thus far is 439.50
With the rest of the 60.5 L.E try your best to feed your children
Go ahead and sign on the dotted line ..
P.S the day western women cease comparing their lives in the west to life in Egypt is the day they finally accept reality. It is pathetic when you are talking about your lives in western developed nations to a third world nation. I am embarrassed at reading such redundant text.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
thanks Rumi and Almaz..really enjoyed your posts.
OM
-------------------- "It's very important to learn how to weasel out of things. It's what separates us from the animals...except the weasel." ~Homer J. Simpson Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: I never intended for people to argue on this but it is an interesting discussion.
While i have been in egypt i have certainly learnt alot from these people and yes obviously the culture is very different but i believe my my guy is a good guy. Yes he worked on a boat and didnt have much hope of better prospects, i see that and while i was there i was approached by 6 men on the boat, they were all the same asking for "love" and saying how beautiful you are, they do this with all women of all nationalities. My guy was infact the only one not to pester me and look desperate, infact i appraoched him and i can see that this situation is my own doing entirely, though now looking back i can see that i did the wrong thing offering him too much in the way of a better life.
I can also see that yes there are those men out there that prey on tourists and that there are decent men too rich and poor.
I never thought that i would have a relationship with a poor man, i mean in England i am not rich but i get by.
There has been a big culture clash, he is muslim and i am Chrtistian but he hasnt stopped me from talking about my religion, i even told him about Easter and he listened to me but we just agree to differ on religion.
I have found it hard to be expected to act like an Egyptian women too because i am not and in time we have come to some compromises even though i still find his jealousy of me hard to deal with at times.
Yes i can see that i made a big mistake in regards to money but if he really wants me he will buck up his ideas and start working and contributing to our life and he knows this.
Strange question, maybe, but would you do the same for a man in your home country? For instance: my friend paid for everything when she when she dated her Egyptian boyfriend. Even seen though European eyes I don't think it's good for a guy's ego to do this. There's an element of pitty in it, which I think isn't a good thing to start a serious relationship with.
Posts: 119 | From: Where ever I lay my head... | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
"Unfortunately, I think most western woman don't judge on job status and family backround because here it's different. Most of the time we don't judge people on factors such as type of job and family backround and I think this is where the problem comes in to play.WE go to another country and judge men we meet as how we are used to viewing men here.."
That pretty much hits the nail squarely on the head, Rumi. There are good men everywhere, regardless of income, but to find the decent ones, you need to know what to look for and what to avoid... in any country.
Posts: 1157 | From: Censor - Edit - Delete, but you will never take away my FREEDOM! | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: My guy was infact the only one not to pester me and look desperate, infact i appraoched him and i can see that this situation is my own doing entirely
He played you well, since you seem totally oblivious to the fact that you've very obviously been manipulated to think exactly that.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Think you are clever exiled, i dont wanna read your redundant crap either, i didnt come here to get attacked by some asshole and whats wrong with comparing??, your mind so small you cant think outside the box, you make me laugh Posts: 30 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
How many times did women come online to complain about men they met in sharm or hurghada or in a bar or in taxi...etc? and how did those men treat them so nice in the beginning then they either took their money or used them for visa or whatsoever!
In spite of all the complains and the problems and the stories we have heard, western women still do it over and over again! They are not only blind they are deaf too!
Every western woman wishes her story with her Egyptian lover to be different and with happy ending and to be a successful story but they usually end up in court fighting and suing each other or in ES or online forums crying and yelling and cursing him and the day she met him lol
-------------------- forum sharameet we khawalat we el operator m3rseen Posts: 504 | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I think people DO judge others on type of job and education in any society, maybe no longer so much on family background in Western countries, because upward mobility is acceptable and often admired.
You'd be hard pressed to find a university professor married to a bus driver, or lawyer married to a waiter/waitress...etc. in most societies.
In Egypt, the class divide is just much greater and much more obvious - that's why if you are Egyptian or have lived here long enough you can tell just by looks and manner which 'class' a person is from. Also upward mobility is very difficult because of a rotten education system.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: Think you are clever exiled, i dont wanna read your redundant crap either, i didnt come here to get attacked by some asshole and whats wrong with comparing??, your mind so small you cant think outside the box, you make me laugh
For what's it worth i want it to work for you two. Don't give up on him just yet, try to help him help himself in motivating sort of way, or at the very least play with his mind
posted
Reb27, you seem hopeful of fixing your situation just by telling him to 'buck up'. The point we're all trying to make here is that, if he were an honourable and honest person to start with, he would NEVER have accepted what you have given him so far.
The driving lessons are a joke, I'm afraid. In Egypt your friends or relatives teach you how to drive... very few go to a driving school. The money almost definitely went for something else. Out of curiosity how much have you paid for driving lessons and how long have they been going on for?
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
ok well the driving lessons were a one month course so 20 days out of 28 driving, he would go for driving in the morning, then have a break, go back and have some lecture or something.
After this he had a medical, eye check etc which i have seen the paperwork for and now he is waiting for his test, so it has been nearly 2 months total.
The total for this was 3000LE, Do peole go to driving school citizen?
Posts: 30 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: ok well the driving lessons were a one month course so 20 days out of 28 driving, he would go for driving in the morning, then have a break, go back and have some lecture or something.
After this he had a medical, eye check etc which i have seen the paperwork for and now he is waiting for his test, so it has been nearly 2 months total.
The total for this was 3000LE, Do peole go to driving school citizen?
Thief, Thief, Thief!!!! Haramy Big Time!!! My wife has to take driving lessons here for a total of 100 JD or 775 L.E and Jordan is way more expensive than Egypt.
3000 L.E is a yearly salary for many Egyptians
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: ok well the driving lessons were a one month course so 20 days out of 28 driving, he would go for driving in the morning, then have a break, go back and have some lecture or something.
After this he had a medical, eye check etc which i have seen the paperwork for and now he is waiting for his test, so it has been nearly 2 months total.
The total for this was 3000LE, Do peole go to driving school citizen?
This must be a joke or she's a troll. Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: Also upward mobility is very difficult because of a rotten education system.
I agree, Citizen, although we do know couples with very different careers - such as a successful lawyer who is married to an air hostess(she still works too, part time) and several other examples. There is way more fluidity and acceptance of upward mobility. It would be a social error here to ask a stranger at a party what they do for a living, for example
Posts: 1157 | From: Censor - Edit - Delete, but you will never take away my FREEDOM! | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
his case is looking worse and worse Reb...sorry to say...dump him, or at least throw away your check book!!!
-------------------- "It's very important to learn how to weasel out of things. It's what separates us from the animals...except the weasel." ~Homer J. Simpson Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: ok well the driving lessons were a one month course so 20 days out of 28 driving, he would go for driving in the morning, then have a break, go back and have some lecture or something.
After this he had a medical, eye check etc which i have seen the paperwork for and now he is waiting for his test, so it has been nearly 2 months total.
The total for this was 3000LE, Do peole go to driving school citizen?
Thief, Thief, Thief!!!! Haramy Big Time!!! My wife has to take driving lessons here for a total of 100 JD or 775 L.E and Jordan is way more expensive than Egypt.
3000 L.E is a yearly salary for many Egyptians
P.S the eye exam (in egypt) costs 25 l.E and is issued instantly.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: who here comes from Egypt or this area?, obviously i can see that Exiled is from Jordan
Although many of us don't live in Egypt,we obviously are more educated on Egyptian ways than you.Sorry. Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Lumos: It would be a social error here to ask a stranger at a party what they do for a living, for example
yeah, what the hell is the deal with people in egypt always wondering what someone does for a living??? sometimes i get the feeling that certain egyptians don't want other egyptians to do well, like there's a big jealousy factor...anyone else ever feel that way???
Reb...i don't come from egypt...i have lived there since 2005 and am married to an egyptian...but it doesn't take an egyptian person to see this guy is using you! please think about it...
Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Reb, I'm in Egypt. Just texted a colleague who recently took lessons. Her answer: 360LE for 10 lessons x 45 mins.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
<yeah, what the hell is the deal with people in egypt always wondering what someone does for a living??? sometimes i get the feeling that certain egyptians don't want other egyptians to do well, like there's a big jealousy factor...anyone else ever feel that way???>
Some even go to the extent of asking you the price of this or that of what you have. That is rude!
posted
sometimes they do ask that sashyra8, like if u go in a shop and buy something they will ask u how much it was
Posts: 30 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
just while we are on the subject, how much is an examination by a consultant in assuite?, example like blood tests, exam, xray, just getting some facts together in my head so i know how much he used me.
Posts: 30 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
^^^ you haven't been asked to do that for family members, have you? It's another classic con.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: sometimes they do ask that sashyra8, like if u go in a shop and buy something they will ask u how much it was
Noo,noo,but i'm not asking about shopping,but about Egyptian people not related to were you go shopping or such. Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: <yeah, what the hell is the deal with people in egypt always wondering what someone does for a living??? sometimes i get the feeling that certain egyptians don't want other egyptians to do well, like there's a big jealousy factor...anyone else ever feel that way???>
Some even go to the extent of asking you the price of this or that of what you have. That is rude!
This is the example of people that were not brought up with good manners, or were very deprived at one point - and even if they reached a different financial status, their manners still show they were not properly brought up.
Posts: 919 | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: just while we are on the subject, how much is an examination by a consultant in assuite?, example like blood tests, exam, xray, just getting some facts together in my head so i know how much he used me.
you know, Reb...don't go there...really...it's not worth your energy or time...does it really matter HOW much he used you? would it make it better if it weren't for that much? probably not...
it's better to let it all go...write it off as a tough lesson learned...i'm sorry Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
reb it depend how much the consulant will cost depending if he/she is like here private medical treatment
Posts: 154 | From: somewhere in the uk | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
You already have a good idea how much he used you. Calculate the rent, upkeep, food, money for mama, medical tests and driving lessons. It doesn't matter whether they were real expenses or not, he has a whole network of relatives and neighbours to rely on in times of need, that's the way Egyptian society works. Taking money from a strange woman is not acceptable. It's unacceptable in Egypt and it's unacceptable in the UK, so why try to justify it?
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I know citizen, just i asked cause i wanted to know what the difference was, what i gave him and what it actually cost so i know for once and for all
Posts: 30 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
In Egypt, if you have money everything is easy. For example, to get a driver's license is very easy. In fact, the actual driving test comprises of parking between two cones - the more tip you give the officer next to the cones, the farther the cones are placed and easier it is to "pass your driving skills" test.
What is difficult is the disorganized bureaucracy, the horrid conditions of the "offices" (of course no aircon) you have to wait around for hours, the pushing and shoving of people all jumping the queue, etc.
But if you don't have the time and you do have the money, you can find a guy who knows the right people and the right palms to grease who can reduce the bureaucratic red time. In fact, you can get a drivers license for about LE500-600 and the exams, the tests, all magically signed off on.
For LE3000, he could have a taxi license in a couple of days by "tipping" the right people.
But then you'd expect him to actually go out and work, and that would be no good to him would it.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: For example, to get a driver's license is very easy. In fact, the actual driving test comprises of parking between two cones - the more tip you give the officer next to the cones, the farther the cones are placed and easier it is to "pass your driving skills" test.
Really?? I am surprised to read this. You park between 2 cones and you get your driver's licence?? Well, that's easy .
Posts: 2932 | From: Just now and then | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by reb27: so for a taxi license u pay 3000LE?
i would like to know this answer also, because if it turns out we are all transgressing against your man by labeling him all sorts of things, you should be certain that your love from him will only grow
quote:Originally posted by citizen: It doesn't matter whether they were real expenses or not, he has a whole network of relatives and neighbours to rely on in times of need, that's the way Egyptian society works. Taking money from a strange woman is not acceptable.
'nuff said!
Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
no, i'm saying that a regular 10 year license costs LE500-600 IF all you want to do is walk straight in, get to the front of the line and have your picture taken and your license in your hand in 10 minutes. about 2-3 days for your guy to "sort out" the paperwork beforehand. i would imagine if you pay less, it takes longer, etc. i don't believe that you need a *special* taxi license in egypt as it seems to be a job that anyone picks up.
you do however need to register the taxi if it's yours (again, you probably just need to grease some palms). but as your guy doesn't own a car, then he'd just be driving someone else's registered taxi and giving him a cut of the profits.
i'm saying NO WAY would it cost 3000 EVEN IF HE WAS PAYING SOMEONE UNDER THE TABLE.
i'm not sure why i'm bothering, as he'll be asking you to buy the taxi for him next and you'll soon be posting about what a fair price for a used car should be.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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a family that would not tolerate that their daughters go out half naked alone, and flirt all over the place; ...a good family can also mean a family that has also achieved a lot in terms of education, in terms of profession etc..and would be extremely disappointed if the children would bring home some 'parasites' that live off other people's money, or some drunk, or some gigolo, or some loser, or some call girl.
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