posted
Hello folks. Really hoping to get some help here as I'm not sure where else to look.
Friend of mine visited Sharm el-sheikh last year and has apparently "fallen" for a local, one of the waiters from the hotel called Mahmoud. (I'm not certain of the spelling).
It seems she was bombarded with texts and emails on return to UK, the content of which I'm sure we can all imagine.
There have since been two return visits, and apparently some type of Egyptian marraige, which only applies in Egypt (??) has taken place.
I'm only fed details sparsley. The latest I've heard from a family member, is that she intends to sell up in the UK and move to Egypt, depite many people being concerned about the way the relationship has developed. There is mystery surrounding the subject of who suggested this drastic move, but I could hazard a guess.
It seems to me to be somewhat rushed, after less than 3 weeks of actual contact that there's talk of moving out there with thousands upon thousands of pounds.
The stories on here of people being wooed and subsequently let down sound exactly like the scenario I'm concerned with. He is apparently recently separated, or about to separate, (I forget which) and has two young children.
It's possible that there are counter-loneliness measures on my friends part, which although not conducive to clear thinking and logic, are understandable.
I'm sure it will come as no surprise to hear that there's a 25 year age gap and that it's not what you'd normally look upon as a "physical match".
Hope someone out there is able to help me, not sure where else to look.
Thanks for reading
Posts: 2 | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
u should advise her also i have an italian freind that did the same and now she regrrets all what she did ,now she is paying his debts in italy and he abused her and took from her abt 100 000 euros ,there are many bad cases in the embassy u can let her check that,tell her if she wants fun she can have it but without marriage or abuing her
-------------------- islam Posts: 2447 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2006
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luckily she invested some her money in egypt and getting some profits and she sold her house in italy ,so plz try to advise her ,she can enjoy with him as much as we ants but no need 4 marriage and paying him money cuz at the end she will loose all
-------------------- islam Posts: 2447 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Doesnt sound good if he is recently seperated or about to seperate with children. Unless there is proof of a divorce it sounds that he is getting her to come there and give him money so he can support a wife and children he already has. No one can know for sure what his intention is. The one sure way to test him is to tell her to let him know she will not give him any money, not one le. Tell him she will not buy an apartment for them to share, nada and see what his reaction is.
quote:Originally posted by scottishness: Hello folks. Really hoping to get some help here as I'm not sure where else to look.
Friend of mine visited Sharm el-sheikh last year and has apparently "fallen" for a local, one of the waiters from the hotel called Mahmoud. (I'm not certain of the spelling).
It seems she was bombarded with texts and emails on return to UK, the content of which I'm sure we can all imagine.
There have since been two return visits, and apparently some type of Egyptian marraige, which only applies in Egypt (??) has taken place.
I'm only fed details sparsley. The latest I've heard from a family member, is that she intends to sell up in the UK and move to Egypt, depite many people being concerned about the way the relationship has developed. There is mystery surrounding the subject of who suggested this drastic move, but I could hazard a guess.
It seems to me to be somewhat rushed, after less than 3 weeks of actual contact that there's talk of moving out there with thousands upon thousands of pounds.
The stories on here of people being wooed and subsequently let down sound exactly like the scenario I'm concerned with. He is apparently recently separated, or about to separate, (I forget which) and has two young children.
It's possible that there are counter-loneliness measures on my friends part, which although not conducive to clear thinking and logic, are understandable.
I'm sure it will come as no surprise to hear that there's a 25 year age gap and that it's not what you'd normally look upon as a "physical match".
Hope someone out there is able to help me, not sure where else to look.
Thanks for reading
I know how you must feel. Been in the same situation when a friend of mine fell for an Egyptian toy boy during our holiday. It’s nerve-wracking. The only advise I can give you, is to try to talk some sense into your friend over and over again. Also provide her with information like, as Egyptian7 wrote, from the embassy, real life stories from the internet or newspaper clippings. She probably wouldn’t want to hear you. Tell you you’re jealous or act vague about what’s going on in her relationship. (Don’t be surprised if only halve of what she tells you turns out to be true afterwards.) If she still doesn’t want to come back to earth, the only thing you can do in my opinion, is stand by her and be there for her if everything goes wrong. (Which is probably the hardest. It basically turned out to be the end of our friendship.)
Posts: 119 | From: Where ever I lay my head... | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
You probably can't talk any sense into her with matters of the heart so go for the practical stuff and tell her that whatever she invests in property and business MUST be in her own name. That way when it all falls apart she can sell up and not loose all her money.
There is nothing in Egyptian law that prevents a foreigner from owning property in her own name, also advise her to get her own lawyer to check all the documents and have everything translated officially into english but don't use one of the shark lawyers in in Sharm El Sheikh as they are all in each others pockets. Get a lwayer in Cairo.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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You wont win her round by being against her. Instead you will lose her and she will always remember you werent there for her.
Even when you think your friend is heading into your worst nightmare for her this is her dreams come true.
You have said your piece and she is still doing it. Now as a friend i would say, you know my thoughts but i am here for you. That way you can still be there for her and pick up the pieces if needed.
She needs her friends around her now because if it does all go wrong and she is a proud woman she will be to afraid to tell anyone in case they say i told you so. There is nothing worse than being in a horrid situation and being afraid to admit you were wrong.
Vx
Posts: 1710 | From: we come in peace | Registered: Mar 2008
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She is not going to listen to you so here is good advice I think meanwhile.
Invest her money in a high interest account here. Some are almost 10% if you buy certificates. That interest will be paid monthly and she can budget her living expenses and re invest the rest of it. That way her capital remains untouched.
Then she can see how she goes with this guy.
She does realise he will still be supporting the ex and kids doesn't she. What kind of money does he make?
She should put NOTHING!!! nothing at all!! into his name if he is from Sharm or she only met him 3 times!!!!! He will take it all and more!!!! for sure.
Get her to invest and if it all falls apart she will still have her money in the bank, and if she reinvests whats left over of her monthly interest she will actually have more than she came with.
She MUST NOT!! invest in taxi, business or property in his name!! AND!!! do not trust Egyptian lawyers!!!!!
They are not the same as back home at all!!!!!
There are no rules and no come back. You cannot take the buggers to court when they swipe your assets. You have no leg to stand on if you are a foreigner!!
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Scottishness, advise her to visit this forum and read about other women's stories. It may not change her plans but it will probably give her a better idea of what's going on.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
u should do ur obligations towards ur freind regardless what the outcome is , i remember that italian lady we used to advise her alot b4 marriage but she didnt hear to anybody so i hope u could have an effect on ur freind
-------------------- islam Posts: 2447 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2006
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The MUST thing here is KEEP ALL PROPERTY AND BANK ACCOUNTS IN HER OWN NAME and DO NOT give him 'power of attorney' over anything - if she wants to create power of attorney, use her dad or trusted relative in the UK ONLY.
There is no need at all for ANYTHING to be in his name whatever he may or may not tell her. Also if she is thinking of buying property in Sharm make sure she knows foreigners can only get things on a 99 year lease there ("usfrucht").
EVEN IF IT IS A TRUE ROMANCE she should do this - because under Islamic law - if they married properly and he were to die then property would NOT ALL GO TO HER - its not like the UK, particularly if she does not convert to Islam. So it also protects her assets for her away from his family in the event of his dying before her otherwise she may be faced with having to sell her only home and split proceeds with his family. If he really loves her then he will see the sense in this entirely as it will protect his beloved one in this eventuality.
And last but not least - DO NOT LEND what you can't afford to LOSE because you will lose it. Operations for half the family, get out of jail cards, buy out of the army etc etc..
My feeling is that the Luxor / Sharm toyboys do NOT understand that when the women are giving them money - it is not from SAVINGS but from CREDIT CARDS OR BANK LOANS so they are taking LOANS to lend the boys but the boys think its money the women just have.
And lastly, if he IS paying all her expenses on trips and she is staying in high class hotels, eating at restaurants or whatever then WATCH OUT - because he will be borrowing that money - either from family or from another western woman because men's pay around there is not more than about 100-300LE per month (£10 - £30) so he can't afford it out of his own money.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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SQ, I have a friend who has being doing more than the above for the past 6 years prior to and since she married her Egyptian husband.
It is such a long story I wouldn't know where to start but she has "lost" £200,000. I say "lost" because she will never get it back and she knows this. Everything was put into HIS name as she was going to be living there with him as husband and wife.
She is an educated woman with a heart of gold and knew he was a bit of a player when she married him I think but I think she hoped he would be a good husband to her.
Top and bottom of question I would like to ask is...the apartment she has bought and furnished is in his name, although she has the receipts in her name for all furnishing. Now her husband was required (for whatever reason I am not bothered about)to marry an Egyptian wife and have a child, you know the "I want my son to have a child before I die malarki".
The husband and his Egytian wife have now divorced and she is with child, due I believe next month.
Now as the apartment is in HIS name and not the name of his British wife (although she paid for it!) does that mean that his Egyptian wife has the right to live there until she has stopped breastfeeding the child she is due to deliver?
This is what the Egyptian man has told his British wife...I know you're not the only confused one!!
The Egyptian man has told his British wife that the matter is in the hands of the Court and nobody can live there until the Court decides what to do with the apartment. The Egyptian wife is currently (allegedly) living with her own family and no longer in a relationship with her husband.
I really feel for my friend but all I can do is be there to support her during this nightmare relationship Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
i dont think any of the toy boys pay 4 themselves ,actually also its a mistake i saw cases some of these women know they r being abused but they just want to believe that a young cute male is still after them
-------------------- islam Posts: 2447 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
The age difference between my friend and her husband was not great, so I dont think he could be considered to be a toyboy.
Initially he had his own business but this went downhill due to lack of tourist interest I believe and was not financially dependant upon her as seems to be the case now.
My friend was not totally naive, she was aware of what he was like before they married and had observed him changing his ways.
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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I think there have been some wise words spoken on this thread... As has already been said a Christian cannot inherit from a Muslim therefore everything must be in your friends name, i f he truly cares about her he will agree to this... If i was your friend though i would not be investing all my money into their future i would be telling him it is 50/50 so he should come to England/Scotland etc and work to earn his 50% of the investment... This way she may get her heart broken because he may leave her after the visa but atleast she will still have her money and can rebuild her future... I say this because personally i would rather have a man leave me in England when i still have a life to rebuild than leave me in Egypt with nothing
Advocate i asked my man about this and he says that as the apartment is in his name his Egyptian wife has a claim on it not only until she has stopped breastfeeding but throughout the childhood of the forthcoming child, if she wishes to pursue this... He tells me it would not be unusual for an Egyptian woman to pursue this as it is the responsibility of her husband to provide for her future whilst she has his child and she would not want the shame of being dumped with nothing Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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So basically my friend will be highly unlikely to regain (not that she had it in the first place!) ownership of the apartment she paid for?! What about the furnishing, which sound quite elaborate and expensive, she has the receipts for these in her name?
I know the Egyptian ex-wife was paid £5,000 as part of a divorce settlement (my friend paid that too, why oh why?!!!) as her family had got wind that he planned on divorcing her even before they married.
So is the apartment now in the hands of the Court or that of her husband's?
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
she got scammed. i wish i could say it would work, but, the economy over there is so bad right now that chasing down tourist women has become a new career.
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I know but 6 years is a long bl**dy scam if you ask me!!
Would still like to know what position maybe re the aparment and in whose hands it may be in!!
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by PeaceAtLast: she got scammed. i wish i could say it would work, but, the economy over there is so bad right now that chasing down tourist women has become a new career.
i dont think that ,i know the economy is going down but these toy boys just want to earn money and lots of money without working
Posts: 2447 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2006
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I don't understand. I see women handing over such a large amounts of money, as if it were nothing! I mean 200.000 English pounds is a quarter million Euro!!! There are days that I don't have this kind of amounts in my backpocket... I don't know how this works in the UK, but in my country, IF you should have a lot of money, most of it is invested, and there is a minimal amount of cash, simply because having cash doesn't bring enough profit. Is this the total amount of what they earned, did they sell their house and everything and brought it all to Egypt, on ANOTHER ONE'S name??? Makes me speechless. Did they never think about what should happen if their relationship should fail? If he should die? If he should not be the one he claimed to be? Did they never think that there would be a possibility that they would lose everything they once had, where she's worked for HERSELF? I should like to know that... What is in a woman's mind when she is doing such things?
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I think that like most people getting married they feel that it will last forever, unfortunately this is not always the case.
My friend did have her own money but as SQ stated many get loans, credit cards etc to keep the funds going and to pay for the air fare etc. This was and is the case with my friend. She is currently working all the hours God sends to keep the wolves from the door and I do worry for her health due to the amount of work she is undertaking.
The money was not handed over in a lump sum, it was given in dribs and drabs (as we call it) for particular things/reasons, these accummulate to the figure I mentioned earlier.
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Even when I should think this would last forever: other things can happen... He could die, for instance... WE all get ourselves a life-insurance in case one of the partners should die, just to prevent to stay behing in poverty... When we are having money, we take measures to be prepared on unfortunate circumstances...that can happen everywhere!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by advocate: I know but 6 years is a long bl**dy scam if you ask me!!
Would still like to know what position maybe re the aparment and in whose hands it may be in!!
...just thought I'd bump this up a bit in the hope that peeps on here now may have an answer or even a suggestion how the answer could be found out!
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Sorry advocate no answers for you. As has been said here, unless she wants to see what is happening, there is nothing you can do but be there for her. Heard a story when I was last out about a girl married to an Egyptian man, had a baby. She had bought their apartment. While she was back home visiting her family, he got false documents made up, showing him to own the apartment and sold it . She had no recourse at all! So even having things in your name doesn't always work.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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I am not sure whether he is telling he the truth about the apartment being in the hands of the Court due to the impending birth of his child and his ex (if that is the case) Egyptian wife having claim to it during the child's infancy etc.
I am wondering whether he is just preventing her from going there as the Egyptian wife is living there?
She has not stayed in her own apartment (she paid for it!) in over 18 months and she has been back to Egypt lots and lots of times during this period and had to stay elsewhere
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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There seems to be so many stories like this. I really hope things work out for your friend. It is very hard to see them being used like that. It sounds kind of like Egyptian wife is living there, if I'm honest.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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I don't think there is going to be a good outcome to this story to be honest with you.
She is a lovely lady but God sometimes I have wondered where her brains have been, I mean ALL that money. I have suggested she make herself bankrupt, she can't go on working all the hours that she is.
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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Consider it as a life-expierence, a very valuable one. As long as she is not traumatised by it, she is alife, she eats, she sleeps and she has a roof above her head. Stand up and start again, there s nothing else she can do...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I know but I keep thinking about the money she has lost and her wellbeing due to the stress and uncertainty of it all for her.
I know it is not my problem but nobody likes to see someone being used like this, I mean IF he is using her, she is still unclear about this.
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by young at heart: Sorry advocate no answers for you. As has been said here, unless she wants to see what is happening, there is nothing you can do but be there for her. Heard a story when I was last out about a girl married to an Egyptian man, had a baby. She had bought their apartment. While she was back home visiting her family, he got false documents made up, showing him to own the apartment and sold it . She had no recourse at all! So even having things in your name doesn't always work.
Doesn't help but this happened to a friend of mine in the UK = her English husband faked documents saying tht the house was in his name, took out loads of loans secured on it, then did a runner leaving her owning hundreds of thousands of pounds. And he was a Chartered Accountant and Freemason!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
It has gotten to the point when I just don't know what to say to her anymore.
I don't want to be harsh with her but then again I don't want her to think she should pursue this "relationship/marriage". I mean after all whatelse has she got to lose? She hasn't got anything left to give him!
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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Yes, but her mind probably isn't that far yet. She will be, but I think she just cannot believe this happened...to her... by him... or she just wishes to believe this isn't happening...denial...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Advocate i am sorry to say this to you but it would appear that your friend has set up a decent lifestyle for this man and his pregnant Egyptian wife. I think she has been scammed and she will stand to lose all, apartment, furniture and any money that she has previously handed over to him. It is time for her to cut her losses as if she continues with this then it is just throwing good money after bad. At the very least she needs to take advice from a lawyer and there she will know where she stands legally. I am sure there must be lawyers in England who specialise in Egyptian law as we do have an Egyptian community in England. If i was here i would be consulting a lawyer sooner rather than later.
Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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Both of these ladies know to Advocate and YAH would be best advised to seek proper legal advice. There are good lawyers in Egypt outside the tourist resorts and in the hands of a good lawyer these situation can be resolved although advocate's friend is clearly never going to retain ownership of the apartment if she ( stupidly) bought it in her husband's name, but she may have some rights to live there as a wife if a divorce settlement has been paid to the ex wife on the basis that she relinquishes rights to live in the flat.
It is hard to understand why any woman would buy property in Egypt in her husband's name, the inheritance and divorce issues alone make this a very very stupid decision.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Habeeby and Penny thanks for your replies. It appears for my needing to gain further insight to this issue that I am more worried about what she has lost than she is!
I don't think she would involve a lawyer as she feels that the money will never be regained now whatever happens, also I really don't think she can afford to pay a lawyer whether here in the UK or in Egypt.
She is convinced she has seen the last of the apartment but has stated hell will freeze over before the ex-wife sits her a$$ on her furniture as she has the receipts in her name for it, she'd rather give it away or burn it first.
My instinct tells me that the apartment is being occupied either by him or both him and his "ex wife".
Well the baby is due to be born in 3 weeks we shall see what if anything happens then, my friend is also considering visiting around that time or just after....I dread to think what will happen!!! Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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Well,if she still has the money to travel there, and is considering it all as 'lost', why on earth is she going then? To hear the latest bullshit story from her ex? What does this solve for her? If I should be convinced that I had lost half of a million to a husband that isn't willing to give back what belongs to me, I shouldn't travel there ever again!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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If he is the legal owner of the flat, then your friend needs to get used to the idea that his other wife and child will live there until the child is an adult.
This is the law.
First of all, if he pronounced divorce while she was pregnant, then she is in iddah until the birth of the child or miscarriage. This means not only is it OK for them to be living in the flat together, as long as they aren't sleeping in the same bed, but from an Islamic perspective he can't throw her out during that time, Until the baby is born, he can take her back as his wife at any time and they continue as man and wife, without any legal procedures needing to be taken.
Moreover, if that flat is the place he lived with the wife while they were married and he owns it, in case of divorce she has the right to stay there, rent-free, until the child is an adult or until the age that he takes custody of the child, if that happens. This is Egyptian law and is intended to protect the child, and if she wants to claim this right she is fully within the law in doing so.
Posts: 19 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Advocate, is he really divorced from the wife?
Sounds like she has been scammed good and still is being. Its not a long time for a scam here, some take longer than 6 years to get all they can, it depends how long the woman keeps paying up then the longer it goes on.
dont think you will make her see till she is ready to see it though
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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My friend was married to this man for about 4 years when he married the Egyptian lady, apparently due to pressure from his family to have a child. They divorced after a few short months - enough for her to get pregnant. They divorced due to him being physically abusive towards her, apparently something he had planned prior to the marriage, which's why the Egyptian's family said that the "dowry" of £5,000 was to be paid should they divorce as they had got to hear that he would divorce her.
My friend has seen the divorce papers (if they were what they claimed) and the Egyptian lady is living (so he says) with her family and not the apartment as the apartment is in the hands of the Court.
It is the Court business I am unclear about, would it be in the "hands of the Court" preventing anyone from living in it?
Also my friend has proof that the contents of the apartment were made by her (receipts, how does she stand regarding those?
Posts: 1917 | From: WALES | Registered: Apr 2007
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Advocate considering he didn't wish to marry this women he managed to get her pregnant Does your friend know for sure that he was physically abusive towards this woman or is this what he is telling her? Also if the alleged divorce papers where in Arabic, which i would assume that they were, then how does your friend know that they are divorce papers? I asked my habeeby about this 'hands of the court' thing in respect of the apartment and he says why should the apartment be in the hands of the court it is in his name so it is his property but under Egyptian law while she has his child she has claim to the apartment and all the contents inside of it. If i was your friend i would be getting on a plane and arriving at the apartment unnanounced to see who is living there!!!! I bet your bottom dollar it is this man with his Egyptian wife who are living there Advocate is there no way you can persuade her to do this and go with her?... just to prevent her killing them both and ending up in an Egyptian prison Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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are the egyptians turning into scammers like the NIgerians? Whats going on? Seems most are just users. When they have a egyptian women they pay for everything! Why should being with a foreigner be any different? As far as your friend, the sex is not worth the nightmare she is getting herself into. She needs to be mature and wake the heck up. She will definately loose and get hurt! Stop her anyway you can. Get her family involved. Do anything you can to stop her.
Posts: 1369 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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. She had no recourse at all! So even having things in your name doesn't always work.
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