quote:Originally posted by *Caterpillar*: As for obedience, keep in mind, first of all, that you cannot look at one point in Islam without looking at other related points. Islam is a whole system.
While men and women have equal rights, those rights are not always identical. In marriage, the woman has the right to be financially supported and maintained. The husband has no right to any of her money. In return, the wife should obey her husband in things regarding the marriage - including whether she can work outside the house and who can visit in the house - but he has no say in how she invests or spends her own money as long as it is in a halal (Islamically legal) manner.
But, at the same time that she is to obey her husband, we are all told to conduct our affairs by mutual consultation, as the Qur’an states in Surah 42, verse 38:
*{And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.}*
So the husband should consult his wife on major decisions and take her opinion into consideration, but the ultimate decision is his, because finally there must be a decision-maker and head to this vital institution – the family.
There is a hadith that states that the prayers of three people will not be accepted [or raised to Heaven], one of whom is the woman whose husband is angry with, until he is satisfied. But, if we are in a loving marriage - which is what we should all strive for - a woman would rarely do something to anger her husband, and he would rarely retain his anger. Yet, if he really is unjust to her, another hadith tells us that the prayers of three people are always heard, one of whom is the person who has been dealt with unjustly.
So, you cannot take just one point without examining others. Husbands and wives should consult each other and try to compromise when they disagree. If a woman has to give in to her husband, sometimes because the final decision is his, she should do it willingly for the sake of Allah and to maintain peace in the family. It is also to be noted that if it turns out to be a bad decision, the responsibility is his!
This situation does not mean that the wife would be weak if she gives in. She has a different kind of strength, a “tensile” strength to bend rather than snap. And, if she does it for the sake of Allah, He will definitely make things easier for her. For more on these topics, please see:
Cat taken in context as a whole like most things in Islam it's sensible and works but as we all know the problem is so many men don't take things in context and like to pick and choose what they want to live by.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Penny: Cat taken in context as a whole like most things in Islam it's sensible and works but as we all know the problem is so many men don't take things in context and like to pick and choose what they want to live by.
And that is precisely why we cant argue it is WRONG. I agree that people do not do things properly, but that doesn't make the CONCEPT wrong. Only the people.
Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
Some people here are arguing for the concept of obeying for a marriage to work...yet it is those of us that do not have this expectation in our marriages that have the happy, working, and long lasting ones.
HOW DARE YOU!
MY GOD Penny I am surprised at this superiority, from YOU, you are just missing some rolling eyes!! You were never like this before.
Well if you want to make this into some kind of competition of whose word is more valid. I doubt you can beat the 60 years my grandparents had where he was head of the household, so dont be quite so sure of yourself.
LOL me superior!! I am talking about cross cultural marriages in this current generation. it's not a competition Cat just a statement of fact as to what does and does not work. You said yourself you find it hard to argue for the concept of obeying in the way most of us undertand it.
Any hey...you didn't used to be so sensitive Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Some people here are arguing for the concept of obeying for a marriage to work...yet it is those of us that do not have this expectation in our marriages that have the happy, working, and long lasting ones.
HOW DARE YOU!
MY GOD Penny I am surprised at this superiority, from YOU, you are just missing some rolling eyes!! You were never like this before.
Well if you want to make this into some kind of competition of whose word is more valid. I doubt you can beat the 60 years my grandparents had where he was head of the household, so dont be quite so sure of yourself.
LOL me superior!! I am talking about cross cultural marriages in this current generation. it's not a competition Cat just a statement of fact as to what does and does not work. You said yourself you find it hard to argue for the concept of obeying in the way most of us undertand it.
Any hey...you didn't used to be so sensitive
Because people never used to imply that I have no right to speak because my relationship didnt last as long as theirs!
Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
v.tr. To carry out or fulfill the command, order, or instruction of. To carry out or comply with (a command, for example).
I would never lack such dignity to obey a command like a performing dog.
I can see why some woman get walked all over if they think this is normal!
Sorry, if a man loves a woman and vice versa they would never make commands to be obeyed in the first instance! Whatever happened to mutual respect and self respect. And I think this of any religion or culture.
If a man ordered or commanded me to do anything I would go out and buy him a dog to speak like crap to!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: [QUOTE] Well I cant help thinking that you are just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing Of-Gold. But if you really NEED me to tell you.
Actually, I am disagreeing because I have experienced it.
No, you have experienced 'obeying' when you didnt want to obey. If two people are happy with that arrangement its not an issue.
Interesting that you know what I have experienced. [/ QUOTE]
Yes I am referring to what you have stated on several occasions in the past, that you were in a controlling relationship. If you dont want me to refer to that, or THINK that YOU might be refferring to that then dont talk about it!
Forget it Of-Gold, I find you impossible to discuss anything with, you are too argumentative for my liking. Have a nice day. I wont reply any more because I have better things to do with my time than try and discuss something with someone who only wants to argue constantly.
Yes, I was in a controlling relationship but I entered it with the same attitude that you have. That I wanted to obey and please my husband. So you are wrong that I didn't want to obey.
quote: Because people never used to imply that I have no right to speak because my relationship didnt last as long as theirs!
I never saw anyone imply that you have no right to speak your opinion. I just see you getting upset when others have a different opinion. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Personally I think every woman on here is right in their point as it is subjective how each person takes the word "obey". I also know it has little to do with Islam being male- female dominated as EVERY(emphasis) religion has it built in the man is the leader or "head of household" who needs to "take care" of his wife and children. As we have evolved as woman it's obvious in many instances that this is no longer the case.
When I was married to first husband I hated the word obey so much I asked the minister if he could substitute the word "obey" with the phrase " I will take into consideration everything you have to say and if It makes sense I will agree "
It's also interesting that some of the men have no problem with a woman "making all the decisions" . How many times do you hear men say " I can't go play with you johnny my wife says we have to go her mothers tonight"?
So if my husband now says to me "bibi plz be careful, wear your seatbelt ,call me before you come home from work so I can watch you get out of the car, be careful with the grease while your cooking so you dont get burnt(this one makes me laugh) this might be by some of you considered obeying if I do these things but to me its that I know the difference in control vs an over protective husband because I lived both . I know he loves me and worries even though I was single for 7 years after my first divorce and can take care of myself just fine. Some women would be offended by this and say this is "control" . I know that a marriage takes 2 people and sometimes you have to pick your battles and other times he has to pick his. It depends on the structure of your relationship, IMHO. He knows that if he told me to have his dinner ready at 8pm or to quit my job because he doesnt like my co workers that he has a snowballs chance in hell of seeing either happen!!
I think your all right and I also think that if a woman lets her husband run the show or a man lets his wife run the show and it works for them then we have no business judging that either. After all, some people are unable to make good decisions for themselves and they prefer to let someone else run the show then we cant bash that either. One women's hell is another woman's paradise, I know this to be true because I cant for the life of me understand how my ex husband's new wife is happy and stays with such a miserable controlling SOB!!
Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: I never saw anyone imply that you have no right to speak your opinion. I just see you getting upset when others have a different opinion.
Just because you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't mean that its not there. For your information, I was more shocked than upset, I dont let a bunch of bitchy women upset me of-gold.
Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
We can't confuse "obey" with fulfilling a request. If you are obeying, that means you have been commanded. If one person commands another, than they have positioned themselves higher up. I would never command a loved one or friend, just because I believe what they are doing is wrong or I didn't agree with it. I might offer some advice. In the end, we are individuals and entitled to make our own decisions, and perhaps mistakes. We are not puppets on a sting, with a husband the puppeteer.
quote: Sorry, if a man loves a woman and vice versa they would never make commands to be obeyed in the first instance! Whatever happened to mutual respect and self respect. And I think this of any religion or culture.
Couldn't agree more.
Anyway- I know the relationship I would like, someone else would have something different in mind. The world would be boring if we all thought the same.
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
do whatever you can do to stop this relationship. Your daughter will ruin her life and even end up dead. Violence towards women is mucb more common in Egypt and is exceptable as the women deserved it. People should stick with their own cultures. Isn't their any men where you people live?
Posts: 14 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by bumfegypt: do whatever you can do to stop this relationship. Your daughter will ruin her life and even end up dead. Violence towards women is mucb more common in Egypt and is exceptable as the women deserved it. People should stick with their own cultures. Isn't their any men where you people live?
acceptable there
its not sono, even she's not that bad.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
s hit i better call walid and call it all of... tell him i cant be with him cas some dumb ass bi cth said so.. hahahah thats fucin so funny...
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think it is Ayisha that said "there is a difference between REQUESTING and COMMANDING. To me personally that is the key
I have never felt like my husband wanted me to *obey* him we just do not have a relationship like that. Of course there are things i do that i know pleases him and he does also.
Cat quoted: The husband has no right to any of her money. In return, the wife should obey her husband in things regarding the marriage - including whether she can work outside the house and who can visit in the house - but he has no say in how she invests or spends her own money as long as it is in a halal (Islamically legal) manner.
To me Cat that is where i draw the line. It is my home (as well as my husbands) he could not and would not tell me who would be welcome in my home. He could not and would not tell me not to work. Those (amongst others) are aspects of our lives that he would trust me to make the right choices. He knows that i would never choose to work if it were to affect our home in a negative manner. He knows that i would never welcome a person into my home that would be wrong. This is where the black and white areas turn grey to me.
Of course i would always tell my husband where i was going and he would expect that but he in turn would always tell me where he were going, as i would expect that. I think it was Rumi that said that we all have a difference on what we ourselves are calling controlling/obeying and i agree Cat that if both parties are happy then who are we to judge Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by *Caterpillar*: in Islamic marriages there are times when a woman DOES have to obey her husband.
That's what people keep telling you, but there's no verse in the Qur'an that says a woman has to obey her husband. Not to mention the fact that it goes completely against logic to obey a person simply because they have a different set of chromosomes.
quote: There is a hadith that states that the prayers of three people will not be accepted [or raised to Heaven], one of whom is the woman whose husband is angry with, until he is satisfied.
And you believe that?
This hadith says that how God judges one human being (the wife) depends on how another human being (the husband) feels and thinks about her. That doesn't sound like something a just and merciful God would do. And it clearly goes agains the Qur'an which is very clear about the fact that each person is judged by their own actions and thoughts.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by *Caterpillar*: in Islamic marriages there are times when a woman DOES have to obey her husband.
That's what people keep telling you, but there's no verse in the Qur'an that says a woman has to obey her husband. Not to mention the fact that it goes completely against logic to obey a person simply because they have a different set of chromosomes.
quote: There is a hadith that states that the prayers of three people will not be accepted [or raised to Heaven], one of whom is the woman whose husband is angry with, until he is satisfied.
And you believe that?
This hadith says that how God judges one human being (the wife) depends on how another human being (the husband) feels and thinks about her. That doesn't sound like something a just and merciful God would do. And it clearly goes agains the Qur'an which is very clear about the fact that each person is judged by their own actions and thoughts.
Nope Dalia, I dont believe that, it was a quote I posted, but I dont believe everything I quote.
I was just trying to make a point about the whole 'obey' thing.
Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
All religions say ( or a lot of them) that the wife has to obey her husband. HOW they see this, is a personal intrepretation. Fact is that there is unequality between men and women in religious laws, so if one one is considered as the one who has the right to order and demand, and one has the duty to obey, the man is considered as a higher rank. At the same time, and often forgotten (lol), that higher rank also gives responsebilities, obligations. So, HE has to take care that SHE feels fine in obeying her husband, not to demand anything that goes into her own principles. If a husbands loves and respect his wife, he wouldn't even demand things that don't make her feel good, it simply doesn't work this way!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
When you're assuming that everybody with a religion should totally act like the religion described, it is. But how many people are doing this? Majority isn't, there is always an open space filled in in each and everyones personal norms and values. I think thát is the meaning of a religion. They offer guidelines, but they have to be suitable for a lot of different circumstances, cultures, characters, times etc. It is meant as more as blind obedience to an authority, as it are their own actions which decided their afterlife fate. Blind obedience is not a sign of faith, but a survival in a culture, in a period of history, when people can't make their own decisions because there is not ebough knowledge to make that decision. The female obedience regulation is made in a time that people thought that every man was a rational thinker and the woman is led by emotions. Emotions are considered as being a bad decisionmaker, so it was the duty of the man to keep his head clear and think rational and clear. In the time of today, where males and females are both educated, able to read the religious scripts, to think logical and make logical decisions, to take responsebility for the own acts, there hasn't has to be authority from the man above the woman. It is only a sign of respect that a man is trusting in his wife decisions.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by *Caterpillar*: There is a hadith that states that the prayers of three people will not be accepted [or raised to Heaven], one of whom is the woman whose husband is angry with, until he is satisfied.
Its a very good thing I don't have the ROFL smilie right now. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by *Caterpillar*: Yes, you are both right. She should be careful and these things DO happen. Also, as you said 6 months is not long when you become a muslim.
Well, maybe mum can just try to convince her to stay in the US and he can come to her?
Well, I'm not sure what to advise really. The passport thing is a must and I dont think anyone should let go of their passport.
Honestly, I would be concerned too if it was my daughter wanting to go and live in Egypt with a man she hardly knew. So I would advise he come to her.
I would urge any woman NOT to take advice from someone as stupid as Pillar. Pillar allowed her young child to watch her being beaten by a muslim man for years. She obeyed his every ignorant 'haddith' and begged him to stay, when HE left HER. Keep in mind that this woman would do anything for a man before reacting to her immature judgements. Why is it that the biggest former 'sluts' become the most stupid reverts on Egypt Search?
Posts: 38 | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
and when will yr dumb ass quit makin new id;s to try and get yr rocks off? ***********
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Some people here are arguing for the concept of obeying for a marriage to work...yet it is those of us that do not have this expectation in our marriages that have the happy, working, and long lasting ones.
HOW DARE YOU!
MY GOD Penny I am surprised at this superiority, from YOU, you are just missing some rolling eyes!! You were never like this before.
Well if you want to make this into some kind of competition of whose word is more valid. I doubt you can beat the 60 years my grandparents had where he was head of the household, so dont be quite so sure of yourself.
LOL me superior!! I am talking about cross cultural marriages in this current generation. it's not a competition Cat just a statement of fact as to what does and does not work. You said yourself you find it hard to argue for the concept of obeying in the way most of us undertand it.
Any hey...you didn't used to be so sensitive
Last time I looked, Pillar was accusing WK and LF of being superior. Penny now joins the ranks. When so many women think Pillar is an idiot, shouldn't she pay a little attention? Or does she only listen to what men say?
Posts: 38 | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ah tina, don't worry about her. A dog that barks won't bite.....
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ***********************:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: and when will yr dumb ass quit makin new id;s to try and get yr rocks off? ***********
Another one who never logs off, for even a potty break. Her potty mouth is always the same though...
i wasnt on all dang day dumb ass.. and if u dont like what i say well i guess that yr problem right.. u cant offend me what so ever... dont u have a husband to watch screw yr daughter? is he still beating u??
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
23177 posts and Tigerbitch hasn't managed one funny. What's wrong, Tiger? Did holy man Misho not like your pic? I guess ones from thirty years ago don't get him off the same, huh? He creeps about ES, forgetting to mention to women he is married, while hinting and asking for pics. Seems the only one who he doesn't ask for pics is his virtual wife, Rumicrazywoman. His flattery is every bit as repulsive as his insincere preaching. I wonder which hadith says it's fine to behave like a sanctimonious little prick? I bet he makes one up. I bet again that Pillar and Rumi believe it!
Posts: 38 | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ***********************:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: and when will yr dumb ass quit makin new id;s to try and get yr rocks off? ***********
Another one who never logs off, for even a potty break. Her potty mouth is always the same though...
i wasnt on all dang day dumb ass.. and if u dont like what i say well i guess that yr problem right.. u cant offend me what so ever... dont u have a husband to watch screw yr daughter? is he still beating u??
I'm bored with you already. You are chronically stupid and only dummies like Tigerbitch indulge your idiocy.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ***********************:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal:
quote:Originally posted by ***********************:
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: and when will yr dumb ass quit makin new id;s to try and get yr rocks off? ***********
Another one who never logs off, for even a potty break. Her potty mouth is always the same though...
i wasnt on all dang day dumb ass.. and if u dont like what i say well i guess that yr problem right.. u cant offend me what so ever... dont u have a husband to watch screw yr daughter? is he still beating u??
I'm bored with you already. You are chronically stupid and only dummies like Tigerbitch indulge your idiocy.
awwwwwww already.. are u bored cas i pegged u or because u are just normaly a stupid bit ch??
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
That really is the best post I've read in a long time. You should use it and tell the management!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I thought this was betty too (like bumfegypt) but i doubt betty even knows the word sanctimonious
If you *******************, have a problem with some posters why don't you just say it as you are instead of creating a new id? WTF is that about? Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: s hit i better call walid and call it all of... tell him i cant be with him cas some dumb ass bi cth said so.. hahahah thats fucin so funny...
omg have u 2 even met yet? im not being smart but tina, its been almost 6 years dude. u joking about calling it off, but really, has it even been ON?
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote: I actually quite like reading some of the more honest posts...
Me too, however, what is the point in being honest about what you think of certain people, if you hide behind a different ID? I like to be honest, and not in disguise... Ferret you flaming gallar! Ahhh, now that feels better Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I like my random outbursts! Well, I wouldn't say they are random, but specifically calculated for time and user to determine when it will bring me the most entertainment You are most certainly a lush, and let us not forget troll and slapper
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh there have been numerous remarks made to us over the time eh WK... shame they are like water off a duck's back I wish I could be so fecked off with life to insult others so freely to make myself feel better muhahahaha
I don't have many outbursts as that might mean I care
If I outburst I generally just have no chocolate near by...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote: I actually quite like reading some of the more honest posts...
Me too, however, what is the point in being honest about what you think of certain people, if you hide behind a different ID? I like to be honest, and not in disguise... Ferret you flaming gallar! Ahhh, now that feels better
You girls may be superior lushes, but you are fun, brighter ones. WK, I'm not a fan of trolls either, but biased, careless moderation has encouraged certain trolls whilst banning those whom he has personal grudges against. Besides, name changers are all over this forum. Tomorrow, I'll have one less *
Posts: 38 | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't overly care for who is who or who likes who this week.. words matter and I do consider sometimes that as I live here I have more right than those who don't to state how life actually is right now!
I have also stated that even the opinions of those of us who live here differ from one another, but they are more valid than those who don't If that makes me a superior lush then I want that in lights
I personally like the boat rockers, it shows others folks true colours in their short tempered responses Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm in Egypt too... so do I get to have an opinion?
I should have emphasised 'superior lushes', just to make it clear they weren't my words. A bit of boat rocking is necessary. It has become too dull, too incestuous on ES.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
[/ QUOTE]![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Those (amongst others) are aspects of our lives that he would trust me to make the right choices. He knows that i would never choose to work if it were to affect our home in a negative manner. He knows that i would never welcome a person into my home that would be wrong. This is where the black and white areas turn grey to me. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic