posted
I totally understand that Ayisha that these things 'can' happen but to say 100%
When people choose to enter interracial marriages these things *may* happen and we ALL need to be aware of these things, i am. However for someone to say 100% that the OP will not see her child again is too much for me. There are men out there that would do this but there are also men that wouldn't.
That said, i would not allow my baby to travel without me as i feel the separation would be too much, as i said before when my children were that age they wanted to be with me ALL the time, even in the toilet! What if she were ill? what if she wouldn't settle? ALL these things i would not be able to cope with.
Truly sorry for sono story, i can only imagine how painful that must be. Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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HB I agree and wouldn't say 100% but ANY chance of my baby not coming back would be enough for me and any man who said we were finished for not allowing it would have his bags packed for him so fast he wouldn't know what happened!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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When I was saying 100% I was referring to the arabic culture. But i know one thing for sure her husband will do anything to fulfill his mothers wish.sorry madame F your husband should of booked a holiday for all 3 of you to go to egypt.If I was in this situation I would not let him take the baby to Egypt unless I was going too.
posted
Oh, I missed the part about the feeling that the marriage will be over when you should refuse... So, you are doubting to surrender and give him what he wants, giving your daughter with him, as a sort of generous gift to at least stay on peace with him? You know what that is? Manipulation and blackmail.
Now I am going to change my answer to you: NOT ONE SINGLE HAIR ON MY HEAD IS THINKING ABOUT THAT...that's a Dutch expression. It means something like that it is absolutely out of the question. Not a change. Impossible. Nothing. Nada. Niente.
I wouldn't let myself blackmail by my husband demanding something what is going 100% against his own culture. Little babies belong to the mother, and if he wants to take her to Egypt, he also has to pay your ticket. Caprice? HE has to pay YOUR ticket....
-------------------- Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there. Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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My marriage has been difficult at times, we have overcome it. I trust my husband, and he has a strong relationship with our daughter. His family hasnīt seen her yet and this would be the only chance for them to see her for at least another year. I cannot go with them, we donīt have enough money and I am tied up at work anyway. I am worried that she will have a shock, I am worried about the new environment, I am worried that I donīt know his family (esp. his mother) at all and I donīt know how they will want to control the situation with my daughter. My family is totally against it, last night my mother was crying on the telephone begging to not send her with him. I trust him but I am worried and not sure what is the right decision.
You've long passed up shït creek without a paddle land and have ventured into totally fucked up funpark.
If you "trusted" him you wouldn't be here asking strange advice from even stranger people.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: HB I agree and wouldn't say 100% but ANY chance of my baby not coming back would be enough for me
Ayisha, there is ALWAYS a chance that this would happen. Then, why marry an Egyptian? Or a man for Middle East. There are stories that everything was supposed to be fine and still the husband took the kids. And well, if someone is about to take the kids she or he surely is behaving at his or hers best. Like it was in the Jacky Trevane book.
There are no garanties in life.
I know we are talking about madame f here, they have a bit difficult history but the fact is kids who are half Egyptian do travel only with another parent, with dads also. This thread makes it sound like this 'kidnapping' is the norm.
And it goes other way too, if an Egyptin marries a foreigner, for sure there is always someone in the family who will ask are you sure she won't take your kids out of Egypt someday. But no one ever talks about this. My parents were only divorced and I wasn't really close to my dad but it still left marks - imagine you never see your dad again (assuming he wasn't abusive or anything).
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: But i know one thing for sure her husband will do anything to fulfill his mothers wish.
And how do you know that? There are 80 million people and about half of them are men with different kind of mothers. They are not all from the same mold. ES is really good place for information but not always. Had I believed everything, I shouldn't have married at all. And that would have been a shame, but then again I wouldn't have known what I lost.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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It is obvious that you are not 100% agree with this. And you will feel guilty until they return you. In that case, even little changes on her body (like loosing weigh, getting darker because of the sun, traces of mosqito bitings etc..) will make you angry and agressive. And most probably, that will cause another problem between you and him. Whatever the facts are, a baby shouldn't travel without you..
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: HB I agree and wouldn't say 100% but ANY chance of my baby not coming back would be enough for me
Ayisha, there is ALWAYS a chance that this would happen. Then, why marry an Egyptian? Or a man for Middle East. There are stories that everything was supposed to be fine and still the husband took the kids. And well, if someone is about to take the kids she or he surely is behaving at his or hers best. Like it was in the Jacky Trevane book.
There are no garanties in life.
I know we are talking about madame f here, they have a bit difficult history but the fact is kids who are half Egyptian do travel only with another parent, with dads also. This thread makes it sound like this 'kidnapping' is the norm.
And it goes other way too, if an Egyptin marries a foreigner, for sure there is always someone in the family who will ask are you sure she won't take your kids out of Egypt someday. But no one ever talks about this. My parents were only divorced and I wasn't really close to my dad but it still left marks - imagine you never see your dad again (assuming he wasn't abusive or anything).
hi cloudy, as you say there is always a chance of this when marrying an Egyptian and having children with him no matter where you are in the world, the difference here is that in the country the child is in now for him to abduct the child would be illegal, if the child is in Egypt its not. Madame f has had many problems in her marriage, as she stated in the original post, and she says they are sorted but if she is concerned her refusal would end the marriage then the problems are not sorted out to the extent she would wish. Yes many fathers travel to Egypt alone with their children and return with them too, but those mothers are not on here asking should she allow it, they just get on with it because they have no cause for concern, madame f HAS cause for concern or she wouldnt be asking this question. I am not saying her concern is kidnapping at all, but she has concerns as she said in the original post, FOR THE CHILD. A father taking the child to Egypt to be raised by his family is not unknown, I agree its not the norm but this is ES, this is where the worst that can happen is discussed and DOES happen.
For the child I would not let him take her for that long, that far, without a mother whom she knows and has the mother bond with, you know how that is yourself. She is too young, it is too hot, it is tooo different for her all at once and without her MUM. Many things happen in a child at this age and the psychological damage can be quite devastating for a child of that age. Children adapt to change easily BUT too many changes all at once can have an awful effect on a baby this young. The effect may not even come out until later in the child. There is no manual when you have a child and you learn things as you go along, sometimes too late and have to deal with the consequences as best you can. If she was another year older then I may have said differently, but this age no I wouldnt do it.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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madame f, You asked and it is 100% unanimous that you don't let the baby go to Egypt without you. You even got VB to come to your party, and he only comes on special occasions.
You said that if you went it would use up all of your savings. There is nothing more important to use your savings for than your daughters well being. Now you might want to ask if you should take your daughter to Egypt at this time at all.
posted
Regardless of kidnapping or other sh*t that happens, you have doubts of him taking your daughter...to me them doubts raise red flags...go with what you feel, to me you feel it wrong he takes her without you (nothing wrong with that, she's your baby).so tell him...if he does not like it tough titty, throw the emotional blackmail right back at him, if he does not understand your concern for your daughter tell him to go to egypt alone and dont come back. i know it is easier said that done, but at the end of the day its your life and more importantly your daughters welfare, blood is thicker than water they say.
Posts: 312 | From: my world | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by madame f: Hi,My marriage has been difficult at times, we have overcome it. I trust my husband, and he has a strong relationship with our daughter. His family hasnīt seen her yet and this would be the only chance for them to see her for at least another year. I cannot go with them, we donīt have enough money and I am tied up at work anyway. I am worried that she will have a shock, I am worried about the new environment, I am worried that I donīt know his family (esp. his mother) at all and I donīt know how they will want to control the situation with my daughter. My family is totally against it, last night my mother was crying on the telephone begging to not send her with him.I trust him but I am worried and not sure what is the right decision.
I have the same issue with my daughter. My husband and I have talked about it more and more. Here she can NOT get a U.S. Passport without both of our signatures, so that is a bit of a safety net at this time. He went to Egypt earlier this year after being away for 2 1/2 years without either of us. Our daughter is 2 1/2 and they have never seen her. My husband gives me this pitiful attitude about "how much they miss her" huh? How can ANYONE miss someone if they have never seen them to begin with. My issues are she is too young. For him to travel with her alone, I feel they are too many safety issues. Traveling with a toddler is a horrible nightmare. Whether it be by plane, car or train. Like yourself, my daughter spends more time with me and crys when I leave her at the daycare for even a short time. Where my husband is from, I do not consider a very safe area. The streets are not all paved, horse and donkey carts are everywhere and I was almost killed by one myself while I lived there. I just don't feel that him and her traveling alone was a good idea. She is a toddler and a big handful and for a 19 hour flight to Egypt, no way. She could run away from him because don't forget he will have carry-on luggage, her and her diaper bag and it is alot to handle. When she gets sleepy, what are her normal sleep routines? What will he do when she has a temper tantrum? In the air....Children her age rely on routine and when that is broken, that spells trouble. If you are having problems in your marriage, I highly do not recommend you allow him to take her alone. I know many here will say that she is his daughter also. BUT the situation is different, when it is YOUR daughter.
I hope you will think things through and perhaps wait to go all together when you can afford to do so. Good Luck Anthropos
Posts: 525 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Since many egyptian men are not as active or participatory in childcare as perhaps in your country...I don't think anyone from his Egyptian family would expect a small child to travel without her mother.
On arrival, childcare will be handled by your mother-in-law and your sister-in-law and your husband will be shooed away.
What kind of impression do you think you're going to make on his family by NOT going with your daughter? They're going to gossip about you being a bad mother, full stop.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: sorry to have to say this, but everyone knows sono, she thought her daughter would only be in Egypt 4 months, she is still there after how many years? Sono now has to visit her and she is not even with the father as he also lives in USA, the child was left with his parents to be raised.
No no, Ayisha, don't turn the story around. Sono said numerous times on here that the child was better off getting raised as a Muslin in Egypt. She also mentioned that she worked several jobs and that fact and finally raising the child gotten too much for her. She voluntarily decided at one point the child would be better off without her so she let little M. go as a toddler. Anyway with having that kind of screwed up and mean woman as a mother child welfare services would have taken the kid away from her anyway.
Seriously there is nothing to feel pity about Sono. At no time she said that she wants her daughter back, that her husband and his family kidnapped her or whatever. She was on good terms with her now ex-husband.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Snapdragon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by ExptinCAI: [qb] Since many egyptian men are not as active or participatory in childcare
Good point. Seriously how many Egyptian men do you know who are changing diapers f.e.??
IMHO for such duty is the mother or the nanny responsible.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: ]Good point. Seriously how many Egyptian men do you know who are changing diapers f.e.??
IMHO for such duty is the mother or the nanny responsible.
My husband does do his share of nappy changing, although that being said, if it's too foul he soon backs away and hands the job over to me.
Although he's quite a hands-on dad in certain aspects of looking after our baby, neither of us would ever expect him to take on the full-time care of him at any point over the next few years and take him off to Egypt alone. It just wouldn't happen.
Anthropos, you asked for our advice and opinions, and we've all given them to you unanimously, that this would not be a wise move or fair on your child at all. Are you any closer to making a decision?
Posts: 172 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
TL I agree it was her decision or so she said, but it was to be for 4 months only as she said here in Jan 2007. She has been 'relocating' to be with her since before I joined this board in 2004 and is still no closer though.
"I chose to make the agreement to raise my daughter in Egypt. The seperation between her and I was only to be 4 months. But the INS changed the rules of my ex-husband's petition and I had to stay in the USA until the restrictions were lifted."
I dont feel pity for her, but possibly this has something to do with why she is nutty as a fruitcake. I do wonder what is taking so long though!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Snapdragon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by ExptinCAI: [qb] Since many egyptian men are not as active or participatory in childcare
Good point. Seriously how many Egyptian men do you know who are changing diapers f.e.??
IMHO for such duty is the mother or the nanny responsible.
ooooo no no no no i wouldnt have that. u made the child with me u better change the diapers with me. or get yr mama to do it. lol
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: TL I agree it was her decision or so she said, but it was to be for 4 months only as she said here in Jan 2007. She has been 'relocating' to be with her since before I joined this board in 2004 and is still no closer though.
"I chose to make the agreement to raise my daughter in Egypt. The seperation between her and I was only to be 4 months. But the INS changed the rules of my ex-husband's petition and I had to stay in the USA until the restrictions were lifted."
I dont feel pity for her, but possibly this has something to do with why she is nutty as a fruitcake. I do wonder what is taking so long though!
If we're lucky she has died and gone to hell for what she did to smuckers!!!!
Miss smuckers positive way of saying stuff Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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posted
sorry tibe, she is still alive and slandering then running off on another board
I think she must be permanently banned here now
I will say that she was last seen bemoaning the breakage of her battery operated boyfriend though ROFL
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Snapdragon: [QUOTE]When she gets sleepy, what are her normal sleep routines? What will he do when she has a temper tantrum? In the air....Children her age rely on routine and when that is broken, that spells trouble.
That's true I didn't think of that. I was discussing this with my friend. She has been living here longer and she knows more Egyptian families with children. She said that routines are not common in Egypt with child care. I wouldn't be surprised. I was wondering though that how can they live for example with a toddler when s/he has negative age There is certain time for napping and at some point it is even very important that you do things in spesific order. Like if you normally wash teeth first and then read bedtime story and if one day you do it other way, oh boy, there is a war!
So a toddler would be totally lost in a strange place and most likely without her daily routines which makes it even more scary. He might tell his mother about these but I fear they would still do things their own style.
With my limited experience I also think routines are not followed in Egypt and they simply do not understand the importance of them. Even our baby is horrible if his bedtime goes too late from normal.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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Anthro...even putting aside all the speculation about what would or wouldn't happen in Egypt all I can say is I agree with everyone here its 100% a no.
When my son was 17 months old I would not have agreed to my English husband traveling the 4 hours by road to his English mother to stay in the UK for 3 weeks. Not because any of them were incapable to look after a 17 month baby but because at that age separating a baby from its mother is going to upset the baby too much for such a long period of time and I would have worried myself to death.
So stand up for what you feel is right, your Egyptian family will understand as will your husband once his mother gets to explain it to him and no doubt tell him what a good mother you are.
I think your comments about your marriage being over if you don't allow this are more your own insecurities than what your husband actually thinks.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
thank you all for very insightful comments.
Unfortunately I am nowhere near to making a decision.
Yesterday he explained to his mother on the telephone that she could not do anything to the child without his permission first. And she accepted.
I do agree that his family has no idea what a routine is. When my husband was explaining exactly the routine they all laughed and thought it was so complicated! My husband understands now the significance of a routine. He truly does. At first he didn't. He got very angry yesterday and called me selfish. He agrees that it is best for the child to stay here but says that his family has to see her and nothing will happen to her.
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Anthro sorry but you have a very odd way of looking at situations. Its not about responsibility, bonding , your marriage etc etc ...its about what is best for the child.
However considering you say you have the savings for you all to go then all things considered it beats me why you are not all going as a family. Savings can be replaced maybe this time with your husband's family cannot.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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madame, Do you honestly believe that your husband will carry a baby around 24/7? I can't see any man doing that when he has his mother right there telling him to go out with his friends and she will care for the baby.
Every post that you make is trying to justify letting the baby go by saying poor dad wants... Try looking at this through the eyes of your daughter.
I really have a hard time believing that you are considering this. Especially seeing how rocky of a marriage you have had. And how do you know what he says to his family? Do you speak Arabic? My gosh girl BE SELFISH. Don't let a man manipulate you into doing something that you feel you should not do.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I think it's not bad if a young child indeed experiences something else, explores new things, doesn't have a routine for a while as long as the child has someone familiar with - in this case it would be Anthropos' hubby. But I am sure also your MIL would be a fantastic grandmother in her very own way and I can understand that she aches to finally meet her grandchild.
Just because Egyptians don't seem to care about routines doesn't mean they are bad parents. People have different ways to bring up their children.
Anthropos, I still think your girl is too young to be away from you for such a long time - it's three weeks after all -. Save the money and go together with hubby and daughter at the right time. You also deserve to see Egypt again and meet up with the in-laws. You are also family.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Just because Egyptians don't seem to care about routines doesn't mean they are bad parents. People have different ways to bring up their children.
I wouldn't say bad parents! And routines don't mean strict schedule. To its not good if a baby (not really small infants as they have completely their own routine parents can't much change) or bigger kid goes to sleep let's say one day 10 pm and the next day 3 am. Especially if the bigger kid has school next day. And I hear they are tired at school in Egypt, this is problem in Finland too, children are not going to sleep early enough.
And one Egyptian kid was crying in an airplane once, he looked really tired (it was 3 am) and his mother slapped him couple of times really loudly - how can she slap him, he was JUST tired This is what I mean, they might think the kid is being mean when he is not.
Everybody has certain routines they are just so part of everyday life that you don't realise it, kids get hungry at certain time etc. Like I said it's not about exact times.
And it is fine if you do not want to follow most detailed routines (like which comes first; teeth brushing or bedtime story) but i can tell you that sometimes it makes your life easier when you do as you have always done (during negative age, which I believe starts around 2 yrs). Of course not everybody has difficulties but watching my sister's two sons growing I can tell you probably want to minimize all that screaming and stuff. During negative age EVERYTHING can be war, waking up, clothing, eating, not eating, socks are wrong color, going to sleep, you are reading the wrong book, s/he doesn't like his or hers pyjamas...
But I don't think you should punish them, like that mom in the airplane did. Which I think many Egyptian parents do, if a kid is complaining and being cranky about a wrong pyjama, she could slap the kid and say get over it. They don't understand this is part of negative age and this is not the way of handling it.
It doesn't make them bad parents, they just don't know about it. It is the same with smoking, they seem to think smoking inside is not dangerous because that kid is not smoking Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Just because Egyptians don't seem to care about routines doesn't mean they are bad parents. People have different ways to bring up their children.
I wouldn't say bad parents! And routines don't mean strict schedule. It's not good if a baby (not really small infants as they have completely their own routine parents can't much change) or bigger kid goes to sleep let's say one day 10 pm and the next day 3 am (woke up the same time). Especially if the bigger kid has school next day. And I hear they are tired at school in Egypt, this is problem in Finland too, children are not going to sleep early enough. This just generally, of course madame f's kid is not going to school.
And one Egyptian kid was crying in an airplane once, he looked really tired (it was 3 am) and his mother slapped him couple of times really loudly - how can she slap him, he was JUST tired This is what I mean, they might think the kid is being mean when he is not.
Everybody has certain routines they are just so part of everyday life that you don't realise it, kids get hungry at certain time etc. Like I said it's not about exact times.
And it is fine if you do not want to follow most detailed routines (like which comes first; teeth brushing or bedtime story) but i can tell you that sometimes it makes your life easier when you do as you have always done (during negative age, which I believe starts around 2 yrs). Of course not everybody has difficulties but watching my sister's two sons growing I can tell you probably want to minimize all that screaming and stuff. During negative age EVERYTHING can be war, waking up, clothing, eating, not eating, socks are wrong color, going to sleep, you are reading the wrong book, s/he doesn't like his or hers pyjamas...
But I don't think you should punish them, like that mom in the airplane did. Which I think many Egyptian parents do, if a kid is complaining and being cranky about a wrong pyjama, she could slap the kid and say get over it. They don't understand this is part of negative age and this is not the way of handling it.
It doesn't make them bad parents, they just don't know about it. It is the same with smoking, they seem to think smoking inside is not dangerous because that kid is not smoking
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Haha.... what do you mean by NEGATIVE AGE??
There is no negative age at any time, kids are kids full stop.
What you possibly mean is the toddler years and let me quote you here:
"During negative age EVERYTHING can be war, waking up, clothing, eating, not eating, socks are wrong color, going to sleep, you are reading the wrong book, s/he doesn't like his or hers pyjamas..."
My daughter is doing this and she is 10 right now. Kids will always have their own opinion on everything - it's part of growing up and finding their own way - just like you as a mother has your own and both opinions will many times not match with each other even if you only want the best for your children. Just prepare yourself for later on. Kids are no robots.
Btw you can imagine it's not always easy with four kids to find an agreement which everyone likes best but I am trying and I started to learn of not wanting to control everything in their little lives. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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It's all mainly First about the "poor" husband wishes instead of the child, that should be the FIRST priority for any mother. Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: My daughter is doing this and she is 10 right now. Kids will always have their own opinion on everything - it's part of growing up and finding their own way - just like you as a mother has your own and both opinions will many times not match with each other even if you only want the best for your children. Just prepare yourself for later on. Kids are no robots.
Btw you can imagine it's not always easy with four kids to find an agreement which everyone likes best but I am trying and I started to learn of not wanting to control everything in their little lives.
I didn't know what this word was in English, I looked up two dictionaries and it came up with "negative age". It sounded funny to me too I guess the other word is "toddler years".
Of course kids are no robots and some have more temperament than others. But it is a fact that there is such thing as toddler years/negative age whatever you call it. It can be CONSTANT war, every minute. I wouldn't expect that from 10 year old but I'm NOT saying they can't be difficult too. And, would you say she is approaching perhaps teenager years, I read an article it starts more early nowadays.
And I agree of not controlling everyhing, actually if you control too much it can have negative results later on. But that is the other end. There is something in and between! I sure as hell am not going to let a young kid decide that today he wants to go to sleep at 2 am and before that he wants to see a scary movie. This is probably obvious to most people, but for everybody it is not. Too many people let their toddlers watch adult movies, war, action, horror...These are just few examples and it is for their protection, not controlling.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by madame f: My husband WANTS to take her. He wants to have the responsibility.
Before I complained that he didn't want to take any responsibility and now I don't want to let him.
Maybe this is a great opportunity for them to bond.
Maybe you don't believe when I say that he takes care of her but he really does and I don't believe that would change when he is in Egypt.
And there has never been any fear in my mind that they wouldn't come back.
If he indeed should take responsibility, then he would have the wellness of the child in mind. What he has in mind, is HIS welness, not yours, and not hers. Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I don'tknow if it has already been suggested but could you not apply for a visa for his mum and another member of his family to come to you? Friends of ours did this at the beginning of the year. His mum and brother got to meet their grandaughter and niece and also had a chance to see where he is now living.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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I get tense when my soon to be ex egyptian husband takes our baby for a few hours on Sundays. I know where they go, and the quality of the home he is staying in, and that his friend will bring his same age son too and it will be lovely. But I nonetheless spend the time washing the kitchen and bathroom over and over. He has asked if he could take Mero to Egypt to visit with his family and my answer was "oh hell no". It's a baby not a trophy. One day I will return to Egypt WITH the baby for the "family press tour", but seriously you are feeling GUILT over telling him no? Sure it's his baby too but get some sense into your head. He knows your relationship is unstable, and that he won't ever be rid of you as long as you have his daughter. My experience taught me that I can never fully understand the depth of betrayal that other people can carry. I don't want to take a swipe at ALL egyptian men, but if you have language and religion differences..and already have issues in your marriage.. He is fully capable of saying one thing, and doing another. And he may be (as mine was) able to brainwash you for a very LONG period of time in order to achieve his goal. Taking a toddler to another continent without its Mother isn't a way to show responsibility. Getting a second job so he can take his entire family is showing responsibility. YOU WANT HIM TO BE A LOVING FATHER AND A TRUSTWORTHY HUSBAND. But wanting that isn't tantamount to him actually being either of those. My son is 23 months old now and he is funny and adoreable and sweet, and the same man that walked out on that baby and never provided a dime for his care is now ZOH ZOH ZORRYYY and has too much love for his son, and blah dee blah blah let me come back to you. Mine uses his child as a bat to beat me with for throwing his lying cheating ass out. I don't worry he will run away with the baby I worry mine would KILL him just to hurt me and get out of paying support.
So if I can experience these very real feelings, then so can you. Why not say what you are TRULY afraid of? Losing control over HIM, not her.
Posts: 1071 | Registered: Aug 2005
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oooooh Cosmo you havent lost the ability to say it as it is and hit the nail right on the head girl, good for you!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Madam F, My thoughts, having read a couple more of your posts are this...
I beleive that a big part of YOU actually wants him to go with your daughter to Egypt, but that you feel guilty.
I think you know the reasons why she shouldn't go, and you dont need anyone else to tell you.
My concern is this: When you said 'I moaned about him not taking responsibility and now he wants to do this...etc' Are they his words?
also, do you want to let her go because you are afraid of your husband going into one, or leaving you? Sometimes in this situation our judgement is clouded and we try to justify decisions we KNOW are not right.
Please think about EVERYTHING, think about whether you would be happy to let your mother take your daughter on holiday to spain for 3 weeks without you?
Please just spend your savings and go with them.
-------------------- IMO Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
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We bought the tickets tonight. We had a very good talk and I am excited for them to go on this trip together. Time for them to bond and I trust my husband and their relationship is very strong. Thanks everybody for your advise. Everybody here was of the same opinion except one but she didnīt dare post but sent it to me in pm. Thank you( you know who you are)
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Yeah, sure, this must have been an enormous problem... Jesus Christ, you are posting a problem, you refer to the problematic past of your relationship, and within twenty-four hours you make a decision that is 100% the opposite as the majority of advices. Really, if I should have such a problem, and should be in a such a relationship, I certainly would need more time to decide, as only one day. Or did he make the decision for you?
This is really hard to believe... Anyway, you are excited for them, and you trust him. And I feel sorry for your baby. What are you going to do when she gets sick there?
-------------------- Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there. Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I would miss my little daughter terribly for these three weeks which would feel like an eternity. I'd be on the phone every day just to hear her voice.
Well then, good luck to your hubby in looking after her and bringing her back home safely. I wouldn't be surprised if your daughter comes back speaking some Arabic.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by madame f: We bought the tickets tonight. We had a very good talk and I am excited for them to go on this trip together. Time for them to bond and I trust my husband and their relationship is very strong. Thanks everybody for your advise. Everybody here was of the same opinion except one but she didnīt dare post but sent it to me in pm. Thank you( you know who you are)
I think we know who it was too
Well I did consider taking bets on this yesterday, wish I had now as I would be quids in Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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I think you were always going to do this madame f.
Two pages of replies, advice and opinions, giving you plenty of genuine reasons why this wouldn't be a very good idea for the well-being and emotional stability of your baby DAUGHTER...
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some cant help to put their own first though.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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arse... i missed this thread before i could join in!
If I was with the father of my baby I don't think I would like him to take her on a 3 week holiday in the same country let alone one thats god knows how many miles away! What if something happens? A 5 hour flight would be very very long. Only way I would have done it would have been to apply for visiting visa for his mum to visit you.
Posts: 1248 | From: my sex is on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | Registered: Aug 2008
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I have come to the conclusion that I think differently than the lot of you.
My husband and my babyīs father is a PRIMARY care taker of our child. He spends as much time if not even more with her, he changes her diapers, he plays with her, he feeds her, he takes her outside, he puts her to sleep at night, he nurses her when she is sick.
Still you doubt his ability to take care of her. I feel sorry for all of you to have such lousy fathers for your children if they are not participatory like this.
Them going together is not like my daughter going with my mother. My mother is not a primary care taker of our daughter but my husband is. That is a fact.
My problem was and that is why I posted this question here revolved around me and whether I could let my husband do it. I have realized that I can trust him and I can give him the control. This is often the problem of mothers, they think that they way they do things is the best and don't trust their husbands.
My daughter can get sick here or in Egypt, whether she is 17 months or 17 years old. I will worry yes. But I don't consider this to be a risk not worth taking. Shall I rather then lock her here inside so she will not get sick. She goes to kindergarten, isn't that a risk also?
All possible precautions will be taken to secure her safety as much as possible. The rest is in God's hands.
Honestly I think that you would not put any question marks to me going alone with her somewhere leaving her other primary care taker behind.
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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You ask people for their opinions and then when they say how they feel about the situation you talk about them.
Posts: 319 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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What if she were ill? what if she wouldn't settle? ALL these things i would not be able to cope with.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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There is certain time for napping and at some point it is even very important that you do things in spesific order. Like if you normally wash teeth first and then read bedtime story and if one day you do it other way, oh boy, there is a war!![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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I guess the other word is "toddler years".
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