posted
I have been married 3 years by a court registered orfi, and to night my egyptian husband told me that his family wanted him to marry an egyptian woman for children. I cant have any. He says he cant say no to his mum and dad, althought no lady has been found yet. He said he will tell the woman that he has an english wife and he will be living with her as he loves her. He has told his family that as well so he says and I beleive him. I dont know what to do any advice would be grateful.
Posts: 8 | From: uk | Registered: Jan 2011
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I have been since Nov 2008 but have been back in uk since 2010 due to family reasons but was going back in April 2011. I dont know how I feel as I am still in shock. I still love him but dont know if i can cope with the situation of him getting married and then coming back to me. Sounds awful to me. I also feel for the woman. How would she feel. Opinions welcome.
Posts: 8 | From: uk | Registered: Jan 2011
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My opinion is that he has already gotten himself married, and that you are the tail on that comet. He is telling you before you come back to Egypt so you won't go into shock when you get there, OR so you don't go back at all.
Posts: 1071 | Registered: Aug 2005
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She would probably feel that it's his right to have more than one wife and because, culturally, he has to have a reason to take another wife. You not being able to give him children (it's always the current wife's/wives' fault) is certainly a sufficient reason. Top that off with doing it to be obedient to his parents, particularly his mother, in her head, he's probably a stand up guy. The icing on the cake would be that he has a wife with a British passport because that elevates him in terms of status because maybe, just maybe, one day he'll probably travel to the UK and work and send money home for her and the children.
That's a lot of probably and not much fact, I know.
I agree he's spineless. Forced marriages are not Islamic and he doesn't have to marry anyone he doesn't want to.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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Take it from me... and I am serious, think with your head and not your heart, you will regret your decision to come back under such circumstances, think like your in England, would you let your husband have an affair, and have a child with another woman if you were living in the UK? Answer will probably be no....
-------------------- MRS HASSAN Posts: 129 | From: In the land of plenty | Registered: Mar 2008
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Why not create a sticky and shove all the ES classics into it, making it easy for folks to log onto..we can call it VISA or ORFI, or anything that'll ring a bell on all that mumbo jumbo. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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So what if new wife doesn't provide kids, does he then marry another and another till he has the 4?
I agree with other posters, maybe he is married already who knows. i wouldn't go for it, it would be bye bye and wish you well but you aint coming to my bed after being in someone elses, but that's just me and many women do it.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: Take it from me... and I am serious, think with your head and not your heart, you will regret your decision to come back under such circumstances, think like your in England, would you let your husband have an affair, and have a child with another woman if you were living in the UK? Answer will probably be no....
I have to agree with Mrs Hassan.
If your husband is Muslim , then he has that right to marry again if he wants children, if the first wife can't have any, then he will marry again to just produce children, sound cruel i know but very true.
Not sure to what to say here, just be careful and think with your head at this time and not with your heart.
I dont think your husband will refuse his parents wishes.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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Sarah68 please think with your head and not your heart. Love dosen't conquer all. I wish you the best in whatever decision you make.
Posts: 133 | From: egypt/usa | Registered: May 2009
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i love my husband with all my heart. I am muslim also and we are married islamically and in the moj. I understand the philosophy of marrying another in islam, but it doesnt work for me in my marriage personally. If my husand came home and told me he would marry again even for that reason, it would be without me.
Posts: 313 | From: maadi cairo | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
There is nothing in Quran about marrying for children and the verses are clearly allowing marrying more than one wife ONLY IF there are orphans to consider and Allah clearly tells you that you cannot treat women fairly no matter how much you desire to, so only 1 is better for you. See 4.3 and 4.129. Quran is telling you to marry only ONE.
Please reconsider blaming Quran or Islam for a man's desire to read a partial verse and claim he can have 4.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Totally agree Ayisha. I have read that passage sooo many times, and I still cannot understand how so many think it justifies more than one wife under so many different circumstances. Also, if the quran DID allow men to remarry due to first not being able to conceive, then it would also allow a woman to do the same. They use their religion as an excuse for them having their cake and eating it, instead of actually respecting their faith. Did you know before you got married that you couldn't have children? If yes, then surely this is something you already discussed. There are plenty of childless couples, the idea that an Egyptian man MUST have children isn't true. I'm always surprised by threads like these. If you were married to a man from your country would you allow him this "right"? If he would marry and have sex with a woman because that is what his parents want, then quite simply why would you want a man like that? I love my husband, but if he would have sex with a woman, raise children with her (no matter what your husband says, once children come along, you will not be number one wife), then he simply doesn't love me enough. I would like to think my husband would physically/emotionally not be able to bring himself to touch another woman- don't you wonder how yours so easily can?
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: Totally agree Ayisha. I have read that passage sooo many times, and I still cannot understand how so many think it justifies more than one wife under so many different circumstances. Also, if the quran DID allow men to remarry due to first not being able to conceive, then it would also allow a woman to do the same. They use their religion as an excuse for them having their cake and eating it, instead of actually respecting their faith. Did you know before you got married that you couldn't have children? If yes, then surely this is something you already discussed. There are plenty of childless couples, the idea that an Egyptian man MUST have children isn't true. I'm always surprised by threads like these. If you were married to a man from your country would you allow him this "right"? If he would marry and have sex with a woman because that is what his parents want, then quite simply why would you want a man like that? I love my husband, but if he would have sex with a woman, raise children with her (no matter what your husband says, once children come along, you will not be number one wife), then he simply doesn't love me enough. I would like to think my husband wouldnt physically not be able to bring himself to touch another woman- don't you wonder how yours so easily can?
I did discuss this before we married and made it clear if he wanted kids then divorce me first. He said also only 1 wife though and it was him that said what I said above about what if you still get no kids. He has an Egyptian friend here, some distant family as they all are, he has been married to his Egyptian wife for over 10 years and they have no kids, he hasn't married another wife coz this one hasn't conceived though.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: It seems like the parents do want grand children.
so they force their son to marry a baby machine? Not very 'Islamic'
quote:And have been pressuring their son to marry again.Maybe they see this as an islamic obligation.
They probaly see FGM as an Islamic obligation too, doesn't mean it is.
quote:I did say he has the right to marry again if HE wants children, any person has this right whether male or female.
yes of course, in any culture in any country if a man or woman wants children and the person they claim to love can't have them they have a right to marry again, when they are free to do so.
quote:As she has a Orfi marriage. Can he marry again or does he need to get divorced to remarry ?
of course he can marry up to 4 without getting a divorce, orfi has nothing to do with that.
quote:I agree with you Ayisha on the quote.
Just because it's put about as islamic to marry 4 wives does not mean that it has anything to do with Quran, nor does FGM but they will all swear it is Islamic. Either this guy wants to marry again or he loves this woman here. I'm sure he will have brothers and sisters to give the required grandkids.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
If he's happy to bring kids into the world on the basis he stated, I think you should be questioning what kind of guy he really is. I mean, what's he going to tell them? No, daddy can't stay tonight, he has to go home to his first wife. This is the one that he loves. He only married your mother to procreate. Truth be told, you were only born because his family forced him into it
How loved and cared for are they going to feel? Put yourself in their position, I mean, if he really does what he says and lives with you? TBH, he sounds incredibly selfish and shortsighted. I mean, it may shut his parents up in the shortterm but I can't imagine bringing a child into the world and planning to live apart from it. It isn't a pet or a household appliance. Kids are like sponges and they pick up on and remember everything.
I know it's very hard to feel any empathy for a child borne of him and another woman, but I think you should show some responsibility even if he won't and kick him to the kerb. It will only bring heartbreak for one/some/all.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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100% agree monkey. I always feel sorry for the children in these "marriages". It is devastating when a father can't be with his children through necessity, but a man who would happily procreate and be a "part time daddy", so that he can spend the rest of his time getting it on with another... Just awful, who would want a man who could do that to his children?
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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Exactly. It must be a living hell to be torn from your kid. But for it to be your plan A? Awful. I can understand why it might have been said to appease Sarah, but if that really is what her husband has in mind, "better off without him" doesn't even come close.
We get to choose our husbands and partners. We don't get that same privilege when it comes to our parents. They are a fundamental part of us. To be rejected by a partner is deeply upsetting, but ultimately recoverable. To be rejected by a parent, by the very fact that half their blood runs through your veins, goes beyond upsetting. It's psychologically damaging.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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im going to talk from the Egyptian point of view . or Egyptian`s men mentality.
if he is a nice husband to u . and wants to have a baby and u cant give it to him then let him find his way. coz to be honest children for men and women are more important than the wife or the husband in egypt. and this is fact.
if u really love him and u have the feeling that he loves u . then u will have to compromise and sacrifice for the sake of love. coz he will get married from another sooner or later. kids are very important in our society in Egypt . and people are not the same . there are people can sacrifice for the sake of love and others cant. but when families involved . that make a very big stress on both of men and women.
i would like to give u an example. if u r with a man who cant get u babies and u really love kids and want one . arent you going to ask him to divorce? and in this case u gonna leave him and go to another man. but for him now . he said that he will not divorce u and that means he loves u but he wants to have a kid to carry his name and his families`s name and that is very important in Egypt. so u gonna give him the excuse in this.
if u can cope with that, then i wish u will have a very happy life with him.
if u cant cope with that, then ask him the divorce in a civilized way.
look i have heard about women divorce their husband coz he is not able to make the love she expected. so she tries to find it with any other man. what do u think about a woman or a man who expected kids to carry his name after his death . just think about it and be wise.
if he will promise to be always fair between both of u then please dont ruin ur happy life. but if u cant cope with this , then dont stress urself and start a new life with some body else.
i hope u will not get confused of my post . but its all about u and ur happiness . take every one talk here as an opinion then u can get the experience which will let u make ur decision.
wish u all the best.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sarah68: his family wanted him to marry an egyptian woman for children.
He says he cant say no to his mum and dad, althought no lady has been found yet.
Spineless and weak. I would dump him.
great u said I WOULD DUMP HIM. people are not the same . and i hope that she will find the happy life with him even after he gets married from another.
look SARAH. in Egypt there are so many people have 2 wives and some times more than 2 wives . and both of the wives are so happy with him. and in some cases they live together in the same house.
so in my opinion to be optimistic and see the light at the end of the tunnel .
or u can just have an agreement with him . u gonna give it a try if he gets married from an Egyptian girl and u have a happy life then its okay .at least he will give u the rest and the space that every English girl looking for in her marriage life ( which im not agree about ).
but if u dont feel happy then he should promise that he will give u the divorce. and that can be an agreement with a contract that u both have to sign.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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what do u think about a woman or a man who expected kids to carry his name after his death . just think about it and be wise.
This is what it really comes down to, carrying on the name after death. This is also the reason that you cannot adopt in Egypt. Egypt has tons of orphaned kids that would welcome a loving home, but the Egyptian male would rather have another wife to provide him his 'bloodline' than provide care for an orphaned or abandoned child. Didn't Muhammed himself have an adopted son?
quote:if he will promise to be always fair between both of u then please dont ruin ur happy life.
If he promises that he will be lying and going against Quran, Allah says He KNOWS you cannot do this. He has now ruined her happy life by wanting another wife, don't blame her for not being able to accept it.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: i never blamed her.
i said if she can cope with it then enjoy ur life with him.
if she cant cope with it then she can ask him the divorce.
you said 'dont ruin your happy life' which is saying that it is HER not being able to accept another woman that is ruining her happy life. As I said, he has already ruined it, not her.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
why on earth u just take the negative points of what i say.
u live in Egypt but u dont know whats going on between the families and the culture.
when a family gets involved then its more than about what he wants. coz his Dad has the right to have grand children.
if i cant get kids to my wife and she desperately needs one . i would give her the divorce and let her get what she wants . doesnt matter how much i love her but she needs things and i cant give it to her. so i have to sacrifice for her and let her find her way.
do u want her to divorce with oout even giving a try?
she said that she loves him so if she asked the divorce she will need so much time to forget him . so divorce will ruin the next 5 years of her life.
on the other hand she can find it is okay with her and dont ruin the next 2 or 3 or 4 years of her life.
she has the choice . and please dont force ur opinion on her and let her decide whether to continue or to divorce.
and for him i say that he must be strong and face his parents that he loves his wife now and cant do that to her.
but end of the day one part has to sacrifice.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: im going to talk from the Egyptian point of view . or Egyptian`s men mentality.
That's fine. But you also have to understand the British mentality. Polygamy is viewed, by 99.99% of the population, as a freak show. The upset to his family not providing a bloodline will be nothing in comparison to the disapproval of hers in fascilitating something which is socially completely unacceptable here. It just isn't allowed. Where people get married here multiple times they go to prison for it.
quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: i would like to give u an example. if u r with a man who cant get u babies and u really love kids and want one . arent you going to ask him to divorce? and in this case u gonna leave him and go to another man.
Doesn't she also have the option to get a second husband to sire her children? Would the first husband be comfortable with her bedhopping between the two?
I'm not debating the rights and wrongs of either point of view, I'm just pointing out that this is the British way of thinking and it's kind of hard to relearn what's been drummed into you since birth.
It'd be no retreat and no surrender for me I'm afraid. He's offering her the opportunity to stay with someone whose being unfaithful to her on a permanent basis. That's aint much of an offer in my book Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: why on earth u just take the negative points of what i say.
because you denied saying it
quote:u live in Egypt but u dont know whats going on between the families and the culture.
Really? You are married to an English woman and you don't know that culture. We are discussing a Brit/Egyptian marriage here, it has 2 sides and 2 cultures.
quote:when a family gets involved then its more than about what he wants. coz his Dad has the right to have grand children.
Who said that? Why does he have a 'right' and the couple involved don't? What if it's his son that can't give children, will he abandon him? Will he blame him or blame Allah for not allowing him 'his right to have grand children'?
quote:if i cant get kids to my wife and she desperately needs one . i would give her the divorce and let her get what she wants . doesnt matter how much i love her but she needs things and i cant give it to her. so i have to sacrifice for her and let her find her way.
But you wouldn't allow her to sleep with another man to have a child while being married to you? Why not? This is exactly the same as this man is asking.
quote:do u want her to divorce with oout even giving a try?
You would divorce your wife if you couldn't give her kids, why not let her sleep with another man for kids and stay married to you?
quote:she said that she loves him so if she asked the divorce she will need so much time to forget him . so divorce will ruin the next 5 years of her life.
on the other hand she can find it is okay with her and dont ruin the next 2 or 3 or 4 years of her life.
You really think that spending her live KNOWING her husband is sleeping with anoher woman wont 'ruin her life' for the REST of her life?
quote:she has the choice . and please dont force ur opinion on her and let her decide whether to continue or to divorce.
Yes she has the choice and she came here asking for opinions, so don't tell me I can't give my opinion and you can!
quote:and for him i say that he must be strong and face his parents that he loves his wife now and cant do that to her.
Your opinion?
quote:but end of the day one part has to sacrifice.
Yes, he has to look at his 'rights' and she has to look at hers.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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i understand the British mentality and i know a man would go to prison if he had more than one wife but now she is in Egypt.
im not agree with him at all Monkey but i dont live in a fancy world . and i like to face the facts. families make their children marry the girl that the family choose not the man himself. and some times the families dont get involved in choosing their son`s wife. families are diffrent in this. but im talking about that guy who said ( my family wants me to marry an Egyptian to give me a baby ) so the family has a big influence on him. so im talking from this situation`s view.
for me i wouldnt marry a woman that my family choosed for me as i choosed my wife by my self.
so u all need to understand the culture in Egypt.
also she has the right to go to court and get divorced immediately if he marry another woman.
according to the low and the culture in Egypt that the woman is not allowed to marry 2 men in the same time.
i know it hurts her but she has to face the facts as it is . and not to live in a fancy world .
that man is not strong enough to face his family. so now what will be the solution? divorce? whilst she still love him is wasting her life.
if she is strong enough she can divorce.
as it seems like he never tried to fight for her with his family . but i give him excuse that he needs to have a kid and his family involved.
sorry if my post will hurt any of u but this is facts in Egypt.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: thats very wise MONKEY.
i understand the British mentality and i know a man would go to prison if he had more than one wife but now she is in Egypt.
She is not in Egypt and even if she were it does not make her Egyptian and there will still be 2 cultures in that relationship to consider.
quote:im not agree with him at all Monkey but i dont live in a fancy world . and i like to face the facts. families make their children marry the girl that the family choose not the man himself. and some times the families dont get involved in choosing their son`s wife. families are diffrent in this.
fact is that the Egyptian culture go against Allah and force marriage then say it is Islamic!
quote:but im talking about that guy who said ( my family wants me to marry an Egyptian to give me a baby ) so the family has a big influence on him. so im talking from this situation`s view.
for me i wouldnt marry a woman that my family choosed for me as i choosed my wife by my self.
so u all need to understand the culture in Egypt.
So if your English wife hadn't provided a child your family would be looking for an Egyptian wife for you, which some still would anyway!
quote:also she has the right to go to court and get divorced immediately if he marry another woman.
according to the low and the culture in Egypt that the woman is not allowed to marry 2 men in the same time.
maybe they should both move to a country where terms are a little more equal
quote:i know it hurts her but she has to face the facts as it is . and not to live in a fancy world .
she is trying to face facts, that's why she asked here.
quote:that man is not strong enough to face his family.
That is what everyone here has been saying instead of trying to justify it as 'his right' or 'his fathers right'
quote:so now what will be the solution? divorce? whilst she still love him is wasting her life.
Why is it? She will soon get over a spineless 2 timing rat, sooner than she will get over staying and allowing him to have a legalized mistress
quote:if she is strong enough she can divorce.
and if she is weak she will allow her husband to sleep with another woman, 'legally'
quote:as it seems like he never tried to fight for her with his family . but i give him excuse that he needs to have a kid and his family involved.
I think HE is the one using this excuse, you are just trying to justify it for him.
quote:sorry if my post will hurt any of u but this is facts in Egypt.
posted
Ooo a dude who lives his life dictated by his mum... A dude who is happy to have 2 women on the go!!! Cultural or not, is it worth the bother? I would dump his sorry ass and leave him to his baby making machine and go find a real man with a mind of his own who would love me for all I was and accepted me the way I am... Why waste your life chasing a man who has no respect for you???
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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i really denied nothing but u just taking my words and understand it according to what digs u want to find in it .
quote:
Really? You are married to an English woman and you don't know that culture. We are discussing a Brit/Egyptian marriage here, it has 2 sides and 2 cultures.
quote:
and also u r talking about 2 other people that they r not u and ur husband. she might want the divorce and she might cant live without him . be wise analyze the situation first then give her the choice and dont give her what would u do. coz she is not u
quote: Who said that? Why does he have a 'right' and the couple involved don't? What if it's his son that can't give children, will he abandon him? Will he blame him or blame Allah for not allowing him 'his right to have grand children'?
i said that . and if u dont believe me then u can go to the streets in Luxor and ask about that issue. if it is his son they would have offered her the divorce if she really desperate to kids. i have a story that a woman was not happy with the sex that her husband give her although she has 4 children. so she asked the divorce and he gave it to her . it is in Egypt but i think most of u will not her about that coz u really have no idea what is into our culture . may be u can see things but there are lots of things u cant see. believe me .
quote: But you wouldn't allow her to sleep with another man to have a child while being married to you? Why not? This is exactly the same as this man is asking
quote: But you wouldn't allow her to sleep with another man to have a child while being married to you? Why not? This is exactly the same as this man is asking
ofcourse i wouldnt accept that. but if she was honest enough and came to me in a civilized way and said i need kids i would give her the divorce to have what she wants. and i would love and respect her so much for that action. no low and no religion would let the women have 2 husbands in the same time.
quote: You really think that spending her live KNOWING her husband is sleeping with anoher woman wont 'ruin her life' for the REST of her life?
Ayisha . u might dont do that but not all people like u . give her the choice to decide what suite her not what suite u .
quote: Yes she has the choice and she came here asking for opinions, so don't tell me I can't give my opinion and you can!
give ur opinion and dont force it on her . same like i did . i analyzed it and gave more than one opinion according to the difrent circumstances. and she has the right to choose what suite her.
quote: Yes, he has to look at his 'rights' and she has to look at hers.
again u r talking about what she has to do as u r forcing ur opinion on her. give her a space to use her brain and heart. people are not the same . not every one thinking ur way or having ur lifestyle.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I think that half of the problem is the vastly different attitudes towards marriage in the British and Egyptian cultures. I'm sure lots of Egyptians do marry for love, but it seems that a lot of the time this is secondary to that person ticking all the right boxes and being able to provide a nice lifestyle. I'm sorry if I've got the wrong impression and I sound like an ar$e, but that's just how it seems to me.
Here in the UK, the foundation of a marriage is love. This is expected. It's implicit. It's in your wedding vows. The fiance and fiancee go home and tell their family they're getting married. Their family don't ask about the earning potential of the groom nor the fertility of the bride (or vice versa). Don't get me wrong - they want to know, but they can't say it. It's sooooo rude. There isn't immediate concern over how the wedding will be paid for. What they want to be sure of is that the person their child marrying is a good one (same as Egyptian here, but...) and equally that their child will love and be loved.
I don't imagine any father in England being content for his son in law to take a second wife, no matter how honourable the reason. Implicit to loving his wife, a man is expected to be faithful to her. Again, it's in his wedding vows.
To take another wife is being unfaithful on a permanent basis. It would be utterly inconceivable to the majority of people here. It is like watching your husband having a lifelong affair. And there are some women who do this - look at Jackie Onasis - she put up wit her husbands having countless mistresses. But she was a career wife from what I can gather. I believe it would be a lot easier to turn a blind eye if your marriage had foundations other than love. If you had other priorities you put above love, such as him being a good provider, good social standing etc. then so long as he's still ticking those boxes, you might be able to sustain that blow in a society where this was deemed acceptable.
Here Sarah would be faced with a double whammy (even if she lived in Egypt - she must retain a family and friends here, after all). Not only would her husband have betrayed her (and make no bones about it, that's what he's done), but it will potentially alienate her from her friends and family at home. Not only has she got to persuade herself it's ok, but she's going to have to persuade all of them too. Never going to happen. He gets to have his cake and eat it and on top of the humiliation of him doing that, she will be judged by everyone at home.
If what I've said is offensive I'm sorry. I'm not justifying the way we think or putting down the way I perceive Egyptians to do things. I'm just saying they are very different and it takes more than five minutes to rewrite what has been learnt over the course of a lifetime. It's easier for me to sympathise with a Brit because I can relate to her way of thinking. That doesn't mean it's any more right than anyone else's. It just means it's the only one I know. Maybe we've got it all wrong. Love doesn't always conquer all and how many people come unstuck thinking it does? Maybe it is better to put the practicalities first... Maybe it's a more solid foundation to marriage than whim and fancy - who knows. Love can be fickle, after all.
The point, and it took a while to get to it, is surely this would have been discussed before marriage? And I bet he promised faithfully it would never, ever cross his mind. At the end of the day, even if founded on love, marriage is a contract. This would, I'm sure, have been a pretty vital term. Without fidelity, where are you? And if he's broken this term, what more? What are you left with except a piece of paper full of broken promises?
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: people are not the same . and i hope that she will find the happy life with him even after he gets married from another.
Look this dude does not have the strength and character to stand up against tradition and his family's wishes. That's weakness.
He clearly does not care about other people's feelings. Pleasing his parents / society is more important to him than love for his wife. And he does not care about the feelings of the second wife-to-be either, he is just going to use her body for sex and bearing children. That's selfishness.
This has nothing to do with different cultures. No self-respecting woman with brains would stay married to such a dude, doesn't matter if she is British or Egyptian.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:But you wouldn't allow her to sleep with another man to have a child while being married to you? Why not? This is exactly the same as this man is asking
ofcourse i wouldnt accept that.
That doesn't answer the question. You would "of course" not accept that, but you are expecting the original poster to consider accepting it. Why? That's a double standard.
quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777:
no low and no religion would let the women have 2 husbands in the same time.
Wrong. There are some cultures in which polyandry (a woman having more than one husband) is being practised.
quote:But you wouldn't allow her to sleep with another man to have a child while being married to you? Why not? This is exactly the same as this man is asking
ofcourse i wouldnt accept that.
That doesn't answer the question. You would "of course" not accept that, but you are expecting the original poster to consider accepting it. Why? That's a double standard.
That's the impossible part to reconcile. Why would it be any more acceptable for a woman to have to share her partner than it would for a man? Why should he object to his wife romping with someone else if it's ok for him to do it? Men are logical. Women are emotional. If anything, men are better equipped to handle it than we are. Living in the same house... My God, 2 British women would be gouging each others eyes out inside of ten seconds. Three seconds. A millisecond. I find it hard to believe there won't be jealousy wherever the wives come from. How many arguments to you hear of which start out with an accusation that the husband merely LOOKED at another woman? Maybe it's different here, but here it's a lot!
If it were me I'd divorce him for merely suggesting it. That would be betrayal enough already.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I'm always a little perplexed that every other word out of an Egyptian's mouth is Insh'Allah, except for when it comes to a man and his perceived rights.
Nobody has a right to grandchildren.
Nobody has a right to children, for that matter.
You get what God gives you and you're either happy with it or you're not.
Unless you're a man, of course, then Insh'Allah goes out the window.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
"..Here in the UK, the foundation of a marriage is love. This is expected. It's implicit. It's in your wedding vows. The fiance and fiancee go home and tell their family they're getting married. Their family don't ask about the earning potential of the groom nor the fertility of the bride (or vice versa). Don't get me wrong - they want to know, but they can't say it. It's sooooo rude. There isn't immediate concern over how the wedding will be paid for. What they want to be sure of is that the person their child marrying is a good one (same as Egyptian here, but...) and equally that their child will love and be loved."
This is the way it is in our Western world,Monkey,not only UK.Including this side of America,too.Most people concern is that the couple truly loves each other.
Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I'll chime in. The OP should look at it this way, if her favorite female relative fell in love, got married, couldn't have children, so her husband decides to take another wife how would the OP feel. Would you accept that for your favorite female relative? It's devastating. But I think people are able to endure more than they are given credit for.
However wouldn't one true one be shattered? Then again, love is relative, personally, and in years past I used to joke on these boards about taking multiple wives, but realistically, it would undermine the one thing I love most my wife, which ultimately will be my demise.
Read this however you will. I am neither for nor against polygamy. But polygamy has no place in true love, convenience never does.
Posts: 2275 | Registered: Dec 2009
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i really denied nothing but u just taking my words and understand it according to what digs u want to find in it .
It may be a language problem Pablo, but you did say that SHE would ruin HER happy life. I am not digging, just pointing out what you said and saying it's not HER ruining HER happy life, which I am assuming is not happy now as HER husband told her HE will marry be sleeping with another woman. Your post is saying pretty much accept it and stay happy!
quote:
quote: Really? You are married to an English woman and you don't know that culture. We are discussing a Brit/Egyptian marriage here, it has 2 sides and 2 cultures.
and also u r talking about 2 other people that they r not u and ur husband. she might want the divorce and she might cant live without him . be wise analyze the situation first then give her the choice and dont give her what would u do. coz she is not u
I have analyzed the situation first and she asked here for advice on what we would do. Yes maybe SHE can't live without him and maybe she can. Of course it's her choice in the end as it's her life, and she has probably already made that choice as she is not here again after only 2 posts. It is not MY or YOUR job to give her any choice, we are not involved in this at all. She came for advice and is getting it. You are doing the Egy man side and I and others are doing the Brit woman side. There are after all 2 sides to this whatever country they are in.
quote:
quote: Who said that? Why does he have a 'right' and the couple involved don't? What if it's his son that can't give children, will he abandon him? Will he blame him or blame Allah for not allowing him 'his right to have grand children'?
i said that . and if u dont believe me then u can go to the streets in Luxor and ask about that issue. if it is his son they would have offered her the divorce if she really desperate to kids.
So according to YOU the father has a right to grand children? No one has rights to anything as has been stated by stayingput. You get what Allah wills. Kids have a right to be protected from harm but how many are sticking the baby on the front of a motorbike here?
quote:i have a story that a woman was not happy with the sex that her husband give her although she has 4 children.
Hate to break it to you but women are different to men in that just because a women becomes pregnant it does not mean she orgasmed or enjoyed sex in any way at all. You may need to think about that one.
quote: so she asked the divorce and he gave it to her . it is in Egypt but i think most of u will not her about that coz u really have no idea what is into our culture . may be u can see things but there are lots of things u cant see. believe me .
This has nothing to do with culture, any woman that is forced to sleep with an animal of a man will seek divorce if she has the means to. Also none of this is anything to do with what I can see or not in this culture.
quote:
quote: But you wouldn't allow her to sleep with another man to have a child while being married to you? Why not? This is exactly the same as this man is asking
ofcourse i wouldnt accept that. but if she was honest enough and came to me in a civilized way and said i need kids i would give her the divorce to have what she wants. and i would love and respect her so much for that action.
but what if she loved you and wanted to stay married to you? Why is it acceptable for a man to have another woman for kids and not her to have another man for kids and stay with you?
quote:no low and no religion would let the women have 2 husbands in the same time.
already been addressed by Dalia.
quote:
quote: You really think that spending her live KNOWING her husband is sleeping with anoher woman wont 'ruin her life' for the REST of her life?
Ayisha . u might dont do that but not all people like u . give her the choice to decide what suite her not what suite u .
She asked for advice, she is getting it. It has nothing to do with me what she chooses to do and I am not the only one here saying these things, why do you only pick on me for saying it?
quote:
quote: Yes she has the choice and she came here asking for opinions, so don't tell me I can't give my opinion and you can!
give ur opinion and dont force it on her . same like i did . i analyzed it and gave more than one opinion according to the difrent circumstances. and she has the right to choose what suite her.
I have given my opinion like you have, I am not and CANNOT force this woman to do anything she doesn't want to.
quote:
quote: Yes, he has to look at his 'rights' and she has to look at hers.
again u r talking about what she has to do as u r forcing ur opinion on her. give her a space to use her brain and heart. people are not the same . not every one thinking ur way or having ur lifestyle.
And not everyone thinks your way or has your lifestyle. I am giving an opinion same as you are so why are you accusing me of forcing anything on her? How can I force her to do anything like his parents are forcing him to do?
I know women that are married either as a second wife or a first wife and they made their choices. I know women that are the only wife but accept there may come a day that their husband will want children and will have to make that choice then. I also know a woman that was married happily for over 7 years when she was then told by her husband he would take another wife in Egypt for children and wanted her to divorce him so that he could use his newly acquired British passport to bring that wife to UK and they could all live happily in the same house, in UK and then he would remarry the British wife 'Islamically' again.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
"..Here in the UK, the foundation of a marriage is love. This is expected. It's implicit. It's in your wedding vows. The fiance and fiancee go home and tell their family they're getting married. Their family don't ask about the earning potential of the groom nor the fertility of the bride (or vice versa). Don't get me wrong - they want to know, but they can't say it. It's sooooo rude. There isn't immediate concern over how the wedding will be paid for. What they want to be sure of is that the person their child marrying is a good one (same as Egyptian here, but...) and equally that their child will love and be loved.""..Here in the UK, the foundation of a marriage is love. This is expected. It's implicit. It's in your wedding vows. The fiance and fiancee go home and tell their family they're getting married. Their family don't ask about the earning potential of the groom nor the fertility of the bride (or vice versa). Don't get me wrong - they want to know, but they can't say it. It's sooooo rude. There isn't immediate concern over how the wedding will be paid for. What they want to be sure of is that the person their child marrying is a good one (same as Egyptian here, but...) and equally that their child will love and be loved...."
Brilliant post Monkey. Since I've lived here I have met only one or two Egyptian couples who married for love. The rest were unashamed box tickers. I have met more happy couples in which one partner is Western. So... what's to be jealous of? I do agree to a great extent with Pablo. If this lady can deal with being a co-wife [and as long as she is not expected to subsidise the happy new family!] and she knows that the guy does really love her, why not give it a whirl. Young men are under an extraordinary amount to pressure to conform and obey their parents here and this is not reserved for upper Egyptian farm boys. And we ARE here in another culture, we do have to be prepared to accept ideas that seem alien to us. Personally, I don't think I'd mind being a co-wife. As long as the other one did all the domestic stuff, washing his socks etc, ironing!!cooking unspeakable things like molokya and offal. I'm pretty sure 3 days a week of having fun, knowing that the other marriage was a traditional box ticking formality, wouldn't faze me in terms of jealousy. But then, I'm NOT actually faced with with the reality of it.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: I'll chime in. The OP should look at it this way, if her favorite female relative fell in love, got married, couldn't have children, so her husband decides to take another wife how would the OP feel. Would you accept that for your favorite female relative? It's devastating. But I think people are able to endure more than they are given credit for.
However wouldn't one true one be shattered? Then again, love is relative, personally, and in years past I used to joke on these boards about taking multiple wives, but realistically, it would undermine the one thing I love most my wife, which ultimately will be my demise.
Read this however you will. I am neither for nor against polygamy. But polygamy has no place in true love, convenience never does.
Well said Exiiled. That is exactly why the Egyptian people I refered to earlier are still married after over 10 years with no children and no 2nd wife, because they love each other.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
"But polygamy has no place in true love, convenience never does"
I don't hold with polygamy. However, neither can I fully agree with the above statement. IMHO, "true love" has many different faces. Just as Exiled truly loves his wife, surely he would also truly love his mother, son, daughter and father? Even a person with no family connections can elicit "true love" from someone, but it isn't exactly the same as that which we experience with our wife. It surely follows that a man is capable of "truly loving" more than one wife, although I cannot imagine that I ever could. It is quite obvious that many arranged marriages are very successful, and I believe that this is so because of a determination on the two participants to make it work. This determination, of itself, is an expression of love which we may not be familiar with, but does that mean it is not (or less) valid? In these situations, which are foreign to our own cultures, it is patently obvious that that love, more often than not, grows into the sort of love which we also experience after being married for a while. It's not the initial sharing of new passions, but the ever more fulfilling passion of soul-mates who feel lost when not in close proximity. I'm sure that the polygamous marriages of some of my Muslim acquaintances share the same kind of initial commitment and the same kind of "grown into" "true love"!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Probably best if we think of it as 'love lite'. Most of us have had an inkling of the different range of commitment compared to our own experience. How many times have you related a story, or watched a Western movie with an Egyptian friend and noticed the look of bewilderment when you have to explain 'But he loves her, of course he would do that ...' Do the old 'Last place in the liferaft' test. A friend told me he would throw out one of his kids to save his mother!
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
An Egyptian guy (just a friend ) once told me the order of priority is (1) God (2) Mother (3) Father .... (29) Wife.
When I was teaching English conversation classes to adults a couple of years ago, it was made quite clear to me by the women in the class that no matter how much they might love a guy, if he didn't satisfy certain class/income/prospects requirements then they wouldn't even consider him as a potential husband. In fact, one near-romance I nearly had with an Egyptian guy, his 3rd sentence ever spoken to me was "I have a good job here with prospects"!!!!
In the British Upper and Upper-Middle classes, marriage along the 'alliance of money, property, breeding purposes etc' was the norm until probably quite recently. It was only the plebs who married for love. Even in my late teens I remember parents sniffing out any likely prospects for possession of a degree, father who ran his own business or whatever!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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It is not MY or YOUR job to give her any choice, we are not involved in this at all. She came for advice and is getting it. You are doing the Egy man side and I and others are doing the Brit woman side. There are after all 2 sides to this whatever country they are in. 
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