quote:

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Originally posted by Keins:

I agree Ausar! I hate to see people trying to tear down our black american brothers and sisters. Of course there are goods and bads about their culture just as their are goods and bad about any other culture or sub-group. What African Americans have accomplished in the past 45 years is next to amazing considering the circumstances. Aparthied in America was only eradicated 45 years ago, so remember that! I am not African American but I know how non Americans especially other blacks can sometimes look down on them because we/they understand the importance of being self reliant and to appreciate what many Americans as a whole take for granted. So sometimes we see the ghetto mentality and bad attitudes and get focused on that when in fact there are so many positives that the larger population is doing. The bottom line is we should be greatful that they fought and pushed to have laws ammended that actually allow us black and other people of colour to come to this country and to have rights in America. The truth is America is becoming more and more black and Latin (who are partly african anyway) They will have the economic power and means in less than 50 years to help many african countries restore their economic as well as social dignity in this western world. So to my African, and African American (asians and whites also, but this one is geared to people of african descent) people I say we should be working together to fight against all injustices, poverty and hatred. JAH IS LOVE!

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I have checked on the dates and even respected African American and Euro-American historians claim that the crucial date for Africans in Anglo-America was 1619. But I don't doubt that there were blacks in North America both free, indentured or captives of some sort before 1619. But I don't think such numbers would have been significant.

My main point in response to the claim that blacks were in America for 500 years was that the vast majority of blacks in America share their last ancestor with someone in Africa no more than 250-300 years ago. In fact the last Africa born captive in the U.S. died sometime in the 1970's in the United States.

And we should note in this regard that the famous Kunta Kinte--written about by Alex Haley was kidnapped from Juffure in the Gambia as late as 1765, taken to James Island on the Gambia river then transported across the Atlantic on the slaver named "the Lord Ligonier". And that period was at the peak period of the Transatlantic trade. In fact there is a small museum right there in Juffure bearing witness to the Atlantic trade with all the implements of that cruel institution--manacles, muskets, instruments of torture, etc.

I say all this to say that the overwhelming majority of African Americans are essentially and objectively Africans contrary to disputations--mainly by those who view themselves as middle class and upwardly mobile--on the issue. Proof: I have seen African Americans in West Africa without immediately recognising that they were American--only after hearing them speak. I could never make such a misidentification with Lebanese, Indians(from India), Afro-Lebanese(there are some)and of course Europeans.

Basically, they are an oppressed nationality just as the Palestinians are, and belong to a theoretical African league as the Palestinians belong to the Arab League.

The standard talk is to oppose Africans and African Americans but the truth is that African Americans are just another European formed group in a panorama of post-colonial groups of Africans in Africa and overseas. So in that sense I don't see how their narrative could be excluded from the actual history of Africa.

Again, I don't doubt that there must have been--even if by accident--some African presence in the Americas before Columbus's fateful voyages but for the people who are now called African American the crucial dates are 1619(even if some blacks were in North America before that date), 1865(even if some 15%-20% of blacks were already free) and 1965(even if in some U.S. states the laws of segregation were not on the books).

quote:

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Originally posted by lamin:
To Serpent Wizdom

My main point in response to the claim that blacks were in America for 500 years was that the vast majority of blacks in America share their last ancestor with someone in Africa no more than 250-300 years ago.

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Thought Writes:

Millions of African-Americans have MULTIPLIE lineages including Native American lineages that predate the coming of Columbus.

quote:

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Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom:
You know what smart ass? I am so sick and tired of Africans like your own arrogant self saying us Black Americans of African descent have been here in American for hundreds of years and have not done or accomplished anything. You are just as ignorant and stupid as some Black Americans who believe that Africans, most if not all are starving and living in war torn areas and are backwards.

Warrya, I don't have to prove anything to you because you are a nobody. Not to mention that you have no knowledge whatsoever concerning our history here in the Americas.

For your info not only do we have an over abundance of achievements here in America, we basically built the foundation!

We not only built the white house, but mostly all those old mansions down South, Nearly all of the railroads and it was a Black person who surveyed and was the architect for the building of washington DC and not just the "white house." This country was made rich and powerfull because of the slave labor of our people, a very noble feat.

Not only are these our accomplishments and more but we also invented things that are used everyday. Things that people enjoy around the world and would not want to live without. The stop light signals, the elevator, the cell phone, part of the phone itself, the refrigerator, lawn mower, mop, pencil sharpener, the cotton gin, mobile refrigeration and so many other iventions that u Africans that think you are so better than us, use everyday.

We built our own towns, coming right out of slavery. But guess what? White folks burned them to the ground, had railroads built through them, built freeways through them, totally destroying our self-dependence.

We lost everything during slavery, our language, culture, religions, customes, self-esteem, respect, our very spirits were damaged, etc.
Yes we do suffer from the worst type of brianwashing the world has ever known. I don't believe alot of other folks would even still be in exitence had they gone through the type of degredation we have and continue to experience here in America. We survived the worst holocaust the world has ever known and the holocaust still continues. We are were we are due to circumstances other than us just not doing anything for ourselves. You have no idea of what you are talking about.

Yes, we are an oppressed people and are in trouble I know. I'll tell you what; you worry about your own situation and leave ours to us.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom:
Fool you watch too much tv. You believe everything the white media tells and shows you, as you should. I hope and pray most Somali people are not as retarded as you. Please Goddess do not let this be the case.

Personally, as for yourself, I hope you stay stupid and crazy concerning your belief about Black Americans; the richest group of Black folks on the face of this earth.

Why yes, of course we are all; drugusers, disease carriers (Aids came from Africa and the majority of the worlds infected or among the Black inhabitants, remeber the news telling you that? All illiterate, speak a broken language worse than Africans over here, all on welfare, we haven't accomplished anything in 500 years (Ha! Ha! Ha! lol!!!)etc. etc.

Wow!! There is now a group of people in the world that Somalians like yourself can feel proud to know you are better than!!!!!!!! Even the ones living in war torn areas, starving to death and living in mud huts.....

Don't worry about it boo-boo, it's all good, plus ignorance is bliss, be happy!!!!!

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Well thank you for making me laugh more then I made you laugh….such words you type….. Quite amazing to see you calling me a fool, stupid and crazy and all this little terminologies you could think off….people like you are know for losing their tempers easily and then start to act like the fool … seems to me like you were losing you temper while typing…did I hit a nerve there…Somalis are ten times better then the so called group of people you are comparing them with…don’t but yourself down man……."the ones who live in the war torn areas, starving to death and living in mud hut" have better decorum and dignity then you will never have….i could go back in history…brought to America in chains?….300 years is not a small amount of time and still I don’t see one black American president, yet you still call your self’s really Americans. I will see your people as mentally free when I see you guys doing some progress and not taking the credit of the white man. As a Somalian I know what is going on in Somalis. I also know that it is the Somalis fault not the Americans that made it worse or anyone else for the matter…but as the people of Somalia are taking responsibility for their mistakes and trying to undo what we did...not wasting there time blaming and talkign about what happened years ago...and what they did

As for the HIV/Ebola the untied states of America brought it to Africa I guess you didn’t know that…do your researcher then say something really useful rather then talking about mud hut’s where your ancestors came in ships all naked **** on them selves and dieing of disease….then working on the fields living in worse places then the mud hut it self… and you you talk about mud huts.it is amazing how easy it is to talk about other peoples failure while you are too blind to see yours…Allah didn’t make me blind so why make myself blind.

It is o.k. still think you guys are the richest black people on this earth looooooool..Believe what your mind wants you to believe it will ease the pain, shame and self-pity.

I am not the only one who thinks that African Americas like to blame others for there mistakes and not take responsibilities. I am sure Bill Cosby will agree with me>>>>>>> http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38565

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Originally posted by truelight:
Well thank you for making me laugh more then I made you laugh….such words you type….. Quite amazing to see you calling me a fool, stupid and crazy and all this little terminologies you could think off….people like you are know for losing their tempers easily and then start to act like the fool … seems to me like you were losing you temper while typing…did I hit a nerve there…Somalis are ten times better then the so called group of people you are comparing them with…don’t but yourself down man……."the ones who live in the war torn areas, starving to death and living in mud hut" have better decorum and dignity then you will never have….i could go back in history…brought to America in chains?….300 years is not a small amount of time and still I don’t see one black American president, yet you still call your self’s really Americans. I will see your people as mentally free when I see you guys doing some progress and not taking the credit of the white man. As a Somalian I know what is going on in Somalis. I also know that it is the Somalis fault not the Americans that made it worse or anyone else for the matter…but as the people of Somalia are taking responsibility for their mistakes and trying to undo what we did...not wasting there time blaming and talkign about what happened years ago...and what they did

As for the HIV/Ebola the untied states of America brought it to Africa I guess you didn’t know that…do your researcher then say something really useful rather then talking about mud hut’s where your ancestors came in ships all naked **** on them selves and dieing of disease….then working on the fields living in worse places then the mud hut it self… and you you talk about mud huts.it is amazing how easy it is to talk about other peoples failure while you are too blind to see yours…Allah didn’t make me blind so why make myself blind.

It is o.k. still think you guys are the richest black people on this earth looooooool..Believe what your mind wants you to believe it will ease the pain, shame and self-pity.

I am not the only one who thinks that African Americas like to blame others for there mistakes and not take responsibilities. I am sure Bill Cosby will agree with me>>>>>>> http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38565

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quote:

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Originally posted by relaxx:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Serpent Wizdom:

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Hold your horses there man NO NO NO Somalia thinks that they are from Ancient Egyptians...some could make a statement saying that Somalis and Egyptian may be linked but not say that Somalis are from an Egypt ancestor. That was one Somali person cobra and he is half Irish…who told you to take his comments to the heart. So he made a topic about Egypt and Somalia…you thought that you know about the Somalian tribes and try to act smart, which you didn’t. You like to put salt and hot sauce on everything you say. We see you people clearly as Arabs and nothing compare to the Somalis. First it was Cushitic then Arabs now it became Egyptians...that is what you think of the Somalis. We see ourselves as Somalis…nothing much nothing less
“Brainwashed and don’t know who they really are”....who are you to tell me i ain't a really African or have been brainwashed. All the Somalis know their lineage by heart and know where it starts form and ends to.
Where most of my follow African can’t even remember their languages…some speak French, some speak English some speak Arabic and so on. On the other hand Somalis still speak Somalian, have the same culture and weather a Somali person is in oganden, Kenya or even Djibouti they know that they are still Somalis, and you try to call AS lost check what you are saying…some Africans have been more influenced then the Somalis.

If you talk to the Somalis the ones i have seen look down at the Arabs, the whites or any other race on this earth...we see ourselves as Somalis either black or not. We have Islam. So that means we have been influenced by Arabs and brainwashed..NO...we took the religion Allah blessed as with not the Arab culture as you think...don't mistake them together….many Africans don’t know what Arab and Europe is…. what a lie. Those two have been a big part of African and you say many Africans don’t know Arabs and Europeans. I take that hard to believe. There are African countries that have western influence or Arab influences. Somali is nothing like Sudan stop comparing this two countries

quote:

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Originally posted by truelight:
Hold your horses there man NO NO NO Somalia thinks that they are from Ancient Egyptians...some could make a statement saying that Somalis and Egyptian may be linked but not say that Somalis are from an Egypt ancestor. That was one Somali person cobra and he is half Irish…who told you to take his comments to the heart. So he made a topic about Egypt and Somalia…you thought that you know about the Somalian tribes and try to act smart, which you didn’t. You like to put salt and hot sauce on everything you say. We see you people clearly as Arabs and nothing compare to the Somalis. First it was Cushitic then Arabs now it became Egyptians...that is what you think of the Somalis. We see ourselves as Somalis…nothing much nothing less
“Brainwashed and don’t know who they really are”....who are you to tell me i ain't a really African or have been brainwashed. All the Somalis know their lineage by heart and know where it starts form and ends to.
Where most of my follow African can’t even remember their languages…some speak French, some speak English some speak Arabic and so on. On the other hand Somalis still speak Somalian, have the same culture and weather a Somali person is in oganden, Kenya or even Djibouti they know that they are still Somalis, and you try to call AS lost check what you are saying…some Africans have been more influenced then the Somalis.

If you talk to the Somalis the ones i have seen look down at the Arabs, the whites or any other race on this earth...we see ourselves as Somalis either black or not. We have Islam. So that means we have been influenced by Arabs and brainwashed..NO...we took the religion Allah blessed as with not the Arab culture as you think...don't mistake them together….many Africans don’t know what Arab and Europe is…. what a lie. Those two have been a big part of African and you say many Africans don’t know Arabs and Europeans. I take that hard to believe. There are African countries that have western influence or Arab influences. Somali is nothing like Sudan stop comparing this two countries

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Originally posted by truelight:
you proving you don't know nothing about somalia..there is one tribe that is somehow related to the yemens but to call me a yemen when i ain't even from that tribe is a stupid remark off you relaxx.....i am full blood somalian

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You are correct about the multiple lineages African Americans share. But that is true for all living humans. Even the blondest Swede has multiple lineages all stretching back to Africa. And those in Africa also have multiple lineages that have meandered here and there over the last 50,000 years.

The truth about life though is that we are forced to live according to the Law of the Phenotype--regardless of genotype and lineage. Those who fit in with the taxonomy of the majority of the people of Africa are implicitly and explicity made to carry the load of that continent and its recent and past history--directly or indirectly.

First off, black Americans are the most successful black people in the world!! They are second in status only to many whites!

Serpent Wizdom is correct that many African immigrants like Somalis and even West Africans get caught up in all the bad stereotypes about American black people. True, there are problems in the black community, it's true that Bill Cosby is going around in his speech crusade addressing that, but the fact is most black Americans are not as messed up as you think! If it weren't for black Americans many of the Somalis around where I live wouldn't have any of the opportunities they have now like going to nice schools, being able to open up businesses like stores and restaraunts!!

Unfortunately, the fact is when you're in America the first thing people will judge you by, especially white people, is your 'race.' It doesn't matter if you're Nigerian, Somalian, or even northern "Arab" Sudanese, you are all considered 'the same' and that is black!

I remember one of my Somali friends asking me what the word 'nigger' means? He told me a white man in his car yelled that at him while he was crossing the street. He thought they only used that term on black Americans who are descendents of slaves. He thought it was like this word they use called 'adoon'. I had to explain to him what it really meant. My black American friends explained it even better.

The point is we as human beings have always had conflict over differences no matter how minute or mundane. Whatever strife goes on in Africa, sadly many people outside of Africa don't care about it! About the clan wars, the ethnic struggles. Many people got struggles of their own to worry about...

quote:

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Originally posted by relaxx:
...Many Africans don't even know what an Arab or an European look like...

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Now Relaxx, you've made a pretty wild statement there, don't you think? How can Africans not know what the people they've come into contact with, through trade and/or conflict, look like?

Somalis are Somalis. They aren't mixed. They aren't as result of intermarriage. Not as result of "admixture." We are just Somalis. Always have been.

And no Somali ever says/said s/he was the descendant of Pharaohs; in fact, we abhor what they stood for (claiming and calling themselves God, Supreme identies, etc). However, there is some interesting historical pieces between Somalis (along with other Horn people) and the old Pharaohs which doesn't diminish. If Western African people do not have this historical connection, it isn't our fault.

It isn't us who are in dire need of historical identity and claiming what others have achieved for themselves. That isn't our idea of "achievement."

PS, we do know who is an Arab and who isn't. We didn't learn Arabs yesterday, like you. We traded with them thousands of years. Yes, we consider Egypt (Masar, that is the Arabic name of Egypt in case you haven't heard) is an Arab country. Just as Libya, Tunisa and Algeria are. They are as Arab as a Liban (Lebanon) citizen is.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
You guys are hopeless!

First off, black Americans are the most successful black people in the world!! They are second in status only to many whites!

Serpent Wizdom is correct that many African immigrants like Somalis and even West Africans get caught up in all the bad stereotypes about American black people. True, there are problems in the black community, it's true that Bill Cosby is going around in his speech crusade addressing that, but the fact is most black Americans are not as messed up as you think! If it weren't for black Americans many of the Somalis around where I live wouldn't have any of the opportunities they have now like going to nice schools, being able to open up businesses like stores and restaraunts!!

Unfortunately, the fact is when you're in America the first thing people will judge you by, especially white people, is your 'race.' It doesn't matter if you're Nigerian, Somalian, or even northern "Arab" Sudanese, you are all considered 'the same' and that is black!

I remember one of my Somali friends asking me what the word 'nigger' means? He told me a white man in his car yelled that at him while he was crossing the street. He thought they only used that term on black Americans who are descendents of slaves. He thought it was like this word they use called 'adoon'. I had to explain to him what it really meant. My black American friends explained it even better.

The point is we as human beings have always had conflict over differences no matter how minute or mundane. Whatever strife goes on in Africa, sadly many people outside of Africa don't care about it! About the clan wars, the ethnic struggles. Many people got struggles of their own to worry about...

[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 03 June 2005).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Super car:
Now Relaxx, you've made a pretty wild statement there, don't you think? How can Africans not know what the people they've come into contact with, through trade and/or conflict, look like?

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PS, we do know who is an Arab and who isn't. We didn't learn Arabs yesterday, like you. We traded with them thousands of years.

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Originally posted by Waryaa:
[b]Truelight, walaaloow, Relaxx warkiisa iska dhaaf. He thinks and looks everything under the scope of only black and white. Nothing else. I have tried to reason him that the world doesn't consist black and white, and there is more than grey in between. He thinks he knows Somalis, googling and copy-pasting some articles about some clans, some which he doesn't even read to himself. He likes to label those Somalis who stick with Somali and nothing else as Arabs or not "real" Somalis.

Somalis are Somalis. They aren't mixed. They aren't as result of intermarriage. Not as result of "admixture." We are just Somalis. Always have been.

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That is essentially correct. Somali are biologically East African and are among East Africa's oldest people. Anyone suggesting that the Somali are less African than say, the Bantu, is badly uninformed. The proto-Somali were living in East Africa when the ancestors of the Kikuyu and Swahili were still in Central and West Africa.

And, though no ethnic group is 'pure' the Somali do not have any more extra african admixture than many other central, west and southern africans.

Relaxx is a smart fellow and understands all of this.

However he knows that some Somali are sensitive and enjoys yanking.

In fairness, some Somali, like other Africans, like lots of other peoples in general, like to make myths about their own origins, and come to prefer the myth to the reality. These folks are an easy taget for Relaxx.

quote:

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Originally posted by relaxx:
I repeat again: many Africans who live inland (what I mean is outside Western Africa and Eastern Africa)haven't seen any Europeans or Arabs. It's my own experience. Some people flee when they see a person with a very white face. There are many places in Africa (in the country side) where the only outsiders people see are from towns. I notice that on this forum, people have the impression that Africa is in direct contact with Europe or Arab countries. It's a misconception. I remember a woman from the Great Lake region who arrived for the first time in Europe and was afraid to touch a European skin because she was not familiar with that skin.
Relaxx

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I also want to say to some of the Africans in this forum. (that denies any black accomplishments in US) Just because they never had a black president doesn’t mean they haven’t contributed anything to this country. In fact when you have an ignoramus like Bush as your president you would quickly realize that it’s not really something to brag about. Other than political power white people have lost a lot of control over this country. We already know Japanese already took over in electronics and cars; some of the most profitable business in America. And if china cut all the labor works USA would hit rock bottom harder than the great depression. People don’t realize how much they are linked with foreign countries. Other than very few white elites most of them struggle to pay their bills. Only thing they have is the superiority complex of their skin color.

Culturally African Americans have made huge impact world wide not just in America. Despite most rockers of today being white black folks invented rock and roll. As a rock fan myself do you know how guitar sounded before B.B. King and Jimi Hendrix were born? Do you know how pop was like before Michael Jackson hit the scene? What about R&B and Hip Hop? They were innovators who changed the culture entirely. Politically guys like Martin Luther king and Malcome X made huge stride in the liberal movements. Michael Jordan wasn’t just an athlete he was an icon who was admired and respected by people all over the world regardless of age, sex, and gender. His impact was so huge the entire concept of sports marketing in business has changed.

Money is power and these athletes end up being president, general manager, and even now owners of their own teams that were only controlled by white people in the past. I already mentioned Oprah, she is no longer “just” a talk show host. She took over her own show entirely. She is an entrepreneur and one of the most successful ones out there. She in fact helped another white guy get his own show. Our way of thinking, our way of life style has completely changed because of these people. You guys can’t imagine how impressive it is for the fact that they are only 10-15% of the US population and to make such an impact in a short time.

My estimation is that in the near future, black Americans with their wealth would likely help other blacks in poverty which would likely give more educational opportunity. Our society is getting more liberal not conservative. You are only going to see more black people stride in other area that were often forbidden in the past. Africans should be proud of their brothers that are making their own history in foreign land and building their own empire within the country. They are no longer slaves and embarrassment to Africa, in fact you say anything racial about black people on TV you’ll get your ass banned. It’s not because white people are being generous (still tons of racist southerners) it’s just that their voice can no longer be ignored. Today I'm seeing all these white people cry reverse racism. It just shows how much we have evolved.

[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 04 June 2005).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Waryaa:
[b]Truelight, walaaloow, Relaxx warkiisa iska dhaaf. He thinks and looks everything under the scope of only black and white. Nothing else. I have tried to reason him that the world doesn't consist black and white, and there is more than grey in between. He thinks he knows Somalis, googling and copy-pasting some articles about some clans, some which he doesn't even read to himself. He likes to label those Somalis who stick with Somali and nothing else as Arabs or not "real" Somalis.

Somalis are Somalis. They aren't mixed. They aren't as result of intermarriage. Not as result of "admixture." We are just Somalis. Always have been.

And no Somali ever says/said s/he was the descendant of Pharaohs; in fact, we abhor what they stood for (claiming and calling themselves God, Supreme identies, etc). However, there is some interesting historical pieces between Somalis (along with other Horn people) and the old Pharaohs which doesn't diminish. If Western African people do not have this historical connection, it isn't our fault.

It isn't us who are in dire need of historical identity and claiming what others have achieved for themselves. That isn't our idea of "achievement."

PS, we do know who is an Arab and who isn't. We didn't learn Arabs yesterday, like you. We traded with them thousands of years. Yes, we consider Egypt (Masar, that is the Arabic name of Egypt in case you haven't heard) is an Arab country. Just as Libya, Tunisa and Algeria are. They are as Arab as a Liban (Lebanon) citizen is.

[This message has been edited by Waryaa (edited 04 June 2005).][/B]

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waraya sxb i am walaala... waa xaadi laakin

iskaadafa egyptian waa arabata ronta...

somaliaya waa qaj-qaj...i am still learning...just the writing part...
relaxx waa dabbaal...warkiisa iska illoow.

i know what you are saying waraya...waqel ka relaxx yemani aa ii maalela...habartisa aa yemani...yaahuu wawaaray
waa waar cusayb

xuuux xaaax< soamliaya a ku baashaloya

salam sxb

quote:

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Originally posted by Atheist:

Zulu, I guess I’m not the only one. That’s the first thing I had in my mind when I read bandon19’s post. Even if he is one he doesn’t represent the real black Americans at all. I repeat most African Americans don’t call themselves ape, and they don’t disrespect the African culture. People who use “mud hut” to describe Africa usually come from either white racists or uncle toms. You have to be an American to know how they really feel about themselves. They have so much pride in their blackness and their heritage, everything they do whether it’s entertainment, sport, or politics they always emphasize who they are and where they came from. This is obvious when you see white conservatives crying about them having their own black TV channel or their own black history month.

I also want to say to the Africans in this forum. Just because they never had a black president doesn’t mean they haven’t contributed anything to this country. In fact when you have an ignoramus like Bush as your president you would quickly realize that it’s not really something to brag about. Other than political power white people have lost a lot of control over this country. We already know Japanese already took over in electronics and cars; some of the most profitable business in America. And if china cut all the labor works USA would hit rock bottom harder than the great depression. People don’t realize how much they are linked with foreign countries. Other than very few white elites most of them struggle to pay their bills. Only thing they have is the superiority complex of their skin color.

Culturally African Americans have made huge impact world wide not just in America. Despite most rockers of today being white black folks invented rock and roll. As a rock fan myself do you know how guitar sounded before B.B. King and Jimi Hendrix were born? Do you know how pop was like before Michael Jackson hit the scene? What about R&B and Hip Hop? They were innovators who changed the culture entirely. Politically guys like Martin Luther king and Malcome X made huge stride in the liberal movements. Michael Jordan wasn’t just an athlete he was an icon who was admired and respected by people all over the world regardless of age, sex, and gender. His impact was so huge the entire concept of sports marketing in business has changed.

Money is power and these athletes end up being president, general manager, and even now owners of their own teams that were only controlled by white people in the past. I already mentioned Oprah, she is no longer “just” a talk show host. She took over her own show entirely. She is an entrepreneur and one of the most successful ones out there. She in fact helped another white guy get his own show. Our way of thinking, our way of life style has completely changed because of these people. You guys can’t imagine how impressive it is for the fact that they are only 10-15% of the US population and to make such an impact in a short time.

My estimation is that in the near future, black Americans with their wealth would likely help other blacks in poverty which would likely give more educational opportunity. Our society is getting more liberal not conservative. You are only going to see more black people stride in other area that were often forbidden in the past. Africans should be proud of their brothers that are making their own history in foreign land and building their own empire within the country. They are no longer slaves and embarrassment to Africa, in fact you say anything racial about black people on TV you’ll get your ass banned. It’s not because white people are being generous (still tons of racist southerners) it’s just that their voice can no longer be ignored. Today I'm seeing all these white people cry reverse racism. It just shows how much we have evolved.

[This message has been edited by Atheist (edited 04 June 2005).]

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Thought Writes:

Black Americans and Native Americans also paved the way for any non-white person to live in peace and acheive prosperity in the USA.

quote:

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Originally posted by Atheist:

I also want to say to the Africans in this forum. Just because they never had a black president doesn’t mean they haven’t contributed anything to this country.

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I just can’t help notice but I’ll have to be honest here. You are right the world isn’t black and white, and most are in the grey area. And I don’t really mind Somalis feeling proud about who they are. But whether you like it or not at least in terms of race and how it is perceived in the world it’s really nothing but a simple black and white concept. If it wasn’t we wouldn’t be talking about this nor would there have ever been such classification. As simple-minded as it looks let’s not be naïve here, like you guys questioned why do you think we never had a black president here in USA? What makes pea brains like George W Bush more qualified as president than Martin Luther King? Just think about it? Race as it is used today is purely based on physical appearance and political doctrine or else the term shouldn’t even exist. We are all of human race that some how became of different races because of our DIFFERENT PHYSICAL APPEARANCES. Either you consider all of us the same race or not. Don’t try to justify race in a different way. If you want to go genetically there is no such thing as race. In purely scientific term there are too many loopholes to really define what race really is. All I know is that we all started out in Africa.

You know what’s very funny. Let’s be brute honest here you look at white people. You ever see them fight over identity? I know each country have their superiority complex but they all considered themselves white. That’s not even an issue or worthy of debate. They don’t try to stray away from being white despite their different looks. It’s about other issues not about their identity. Don’t tell me it’s a coincidence that all the countries with identity crisis all are related to either having some dark complexion or admixture of black Africans and that somehow again “coincidently” they ALL don’t want to be associated with them. Any Latino/Arab countries, India, and the list goes on. Oh what a coincidence that only country that have no identity crisis in South America are the Argentineans who happens to look really white.

I’m not least surprised that some Somalis somehow feel insulted by the fact that they are categorized as Africans or black, and that it’s best for them to MAKE SURE that they are in no way related to them. You know I might not be a Somali but don’t be stupid enough to think that I have never seen a Somali before. You can show me couple of those somewhat different looking Somalis to prove how they are of their unique race. They all look African black to me including those unusual (only in your eyes) ones. And to be honest I too don’t care if the Ancient Egyptians were Somalis or Ethiopians all I know is that they were clearly dark black African people of today and that they started one of the first truly great civilizations.

It’s sad how the perception changed over the period of time. There was once a time when being black or having dark complexion was something to be proud of. Ancient Egyptians called themselves black and they painted their gods black. Obviously they were proud of their dark complexion. Highly contrast to how god and heaven are often portrayed of today or anything that’s considered good; all white. What is this we are "just" Somalis? Somali isn’t a race. You do realize that you can still be this proud unique Somali and at the same time still be black and African right? Fact of the matter is you are just as narrow-minded and black and white as anyone else.

P.S Super car, I didn't mean to generalize the entire Africans. Look above I corrected it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atheist:
Waryaa,

I just can’t help notice but I’ll have to be honest here. You are right the world isn’t black and white, and most are in the grey area. And I don’t really mind Somalis feeling proud about who they are. But whether you like it or not at least in terms of race and how it is perceived in the world it’s really nothing but a simple black and white concept. If it wasn’t we wouldn’t be talking about this nor would there have ever been such classification. As simple-minded as it looks let’s not be naïve here, like you guys questioned why do you think we never had a black president here in USA? What makes pea brains like George W Bush more qualified as president than Martin Luther King? Just think about it? Race as it is used today is purely based on physical appearance and political doctrine or else the term shouldn’t even exist. We are all of human race that some how became of different races because of our DIFFERENT PHYSICAL APPEARANCES. Either you consider all of us the same race or not. Don’t try to justify race in a different way. If you want to go genetically there is no such thing as race. In purely scientific term there are too many loopholes to really define what race really is. All I know is that we all started out in Africa.

You know what’s very funny. Let’s be brute honest here you look at white people. You ever see them fight over identity? I know each country have their superiority complex but they all considered themselves white. That’s not even an issue or worthy of debate. They don’t try to stray away from being white despite their different looks. It’s about other issues not about their identity. Don’t tell me it’s a coincidence that all the countries with identity crisis all are related to either having some dark complexion or admixture of black Africans and that somehow again “coincidently” they ALL don’t want to be associated with them. Any Latino/Arab countries, India, and the list goes on. Oh what a coincidence that only country that have no identity crisis in South America are the Argentineans who happens to look really white.

I’m not least surprised that some Somalis somehow feel insulted by the fact that they are categorized as Africans or black, and that it’s best for them to MAKE SURE that they are in no way related to them. You know I might not be a Somali but don’t be stupid enough to think that I have never seen a Somali before. You can show me couple of those somewhat different looking Somalis to prove how they are of their unique race. They all look African black to me including those unusual (only in your eyes) ones. And to be honest I too don’t care if the Ancient Egyptians were Somalis or Ethiopians all I know is that they were clearly dark black African people of today and that they started one of the first truly great civilizations.

It’s sad how the perception changed over the period of time. There was once a time when being black or having dark complexion was something to be proud of. Ancient Egyptians called themselves black and they painted their gods black. Obviously they were proud of their dark complexion. Highly contrast to how god and heaven are often portrayed of today or anything that’s considered good; all white. What is this we are "just" Somalis? Somali isn’t a race. You do realize that you can still be this proud unique Somali and at the same time still be black and African right? Fact of the matter is you are just as narrow-minded and black and white as anyone else.

P.S Super car, I didn't mean to generalize the entire Africans. Look above I corrected it.

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All is well. The reason I singled out that statement, was because, it comes out as though there is hostility between Black Americans and Africans, even though we have opinions of a few individuals here...maybe

quote:

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What is this we are "just" Somalis? Somali isn�t a race.

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Neither is black race nor is African. What I was just trying to clarify, for you information, was that the "blacks" from some certain parts of Africa view this whole wide world nothing but black and white. If they were indocrinated into this, I might not blame them then. However, I certainly don't view into that way. As a matter of fact, technically speaking this whole black and white does not make a shred of sense. Because look at this forum's background. I assume that's the true colour called white. In this 'white' colour, I have yet to see any human who looks this white.

I don't really care about the so-called 'white' people sticking together and not arguing, even though they do. It was only recent while ago that Italians, Portuguese and Spanish were considered 'sub-white,' not equal to their barbarian Scandinavian counterparts.

Hitler tried to revive this ideology of superiority of each 'white' sub-class. The lowest went to southern Slavs, Caucasians and Greeks (forget about the wanna-be 'white' Turks; they didn't make the cut even); middle group was the foresaid Italians and Spanish; then came Britains and French and other central European people. The top, you guessed it, sat the one-time world's best recorded uncivilized people--Scandinavian people, with their Germanic cousins. This proves that what is considered to 'white' race divide themselves, just until recently and some still do. All this, I might not have cared, but I don't know why certain "blacks" and whose heritage is based on Africa (particularly Western Africa) lament upon hearing the notion of there is no such thing called 'black' race.

To each to his/her own. Is that a problem? I guess not.

Somalis stick together one another because they have, they have, they have...absolutely nothing in common with most people down in sub-Saharan Africa. It isn't us in denial. It is just that. We never had a contact. It is as though we were suddenly labelled with Latin American people. To Somalis, it is exactly this anology. You disregard this, and suddenly because my skin and yours are a bit of same doesn't cut the cake.

As you correctly admitted about not seeing a single Somali yet, then we all are arguing is fruitless.
______________

White and Black don’t mean you have to literally be jet black or paper white in skin color. Before, black people were referred to as negroes by the white counterparts. The term and words changed for political reasons but the racial definition of what they were firstly described are unchanged. You have absolute no concept of what race is viewed as in general term. You are in fairy land. Just because you have this distinctive culture doesn’t change the fact that you are black and that you are from Africa. Give me a break with these sub-white classes why don’t you just go ahead and tell me what exactly was the “race” of the jews. I have seen a white jew that was whiter than Hitler himself. You are putting Hitler as an example of this imaginary current european race identity crisis? LOL It was only recent when “Italians, Portuguese and Spanish” were considered sub-white? Portuguese are white now? They are mixed get your facts straight. Actually Portugese underlines my point as they deny any other descent other than the white race when even the dumbest people on earth would know that most of them are mixed. Either way your argument is weak. Come on tell me this identity crisis in europe that is even remotely comparable to the ones related to Africans and “others” fighting to get rid of their black heritage. Let's just see from the people you mentioned Portugese (really mixed), Italians, Spain all think of themselves as white. So what is this identity crisis?

I didn’t correctly admit anything obviously you should re-read what I wrote. Now putting words in my mouth? lol I have seen thousands of Somalis on tv and in pictures, and yes nothing peculiar or something I haven’t seen from black Americans or black Africans. We are not talking about culture here. Koreans speak totally different language compare to the Japanese and they both have different culture but I’m not going to deny the fact that we are all Asians. Anyway you have to do better than that to convince me that you are this some "unique race" (not black not african) nobody in the world has ever heard of.
http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/foto_giuliana/images/Giuliana%20Sgrena%20Somalia.jpg
http://www.unicef.it/imgs/goodwill_ambassador/serio%20Somalia.jpg
http://www.afsc.org/tsunami/images/somalia.jpg
http://www.m6.is/GlobalPhotos/myndbanki.nsf/Files/Somalia_BORNOGS2/$file/Somalia_BORNOGS2.jpg
http://www.iisd.ca/ozone/mop15/pix/nov14/somalia-s.jpg
http://www.developments.org.uk/graphics/issue19/somalia-reading.jpg
http://www.backtojerusalem.com/News%20from%20the%20Front%20Lines/Somalia.jpg
http://www.interaction.org/images/campaign/photo%20contest%202004/Basic%20Education/Schoolchildren-of-Somalia.gif
http://www.aids-kampagne.de/l8mimages/aidspraevention_somalia_dpi180.jpg
http://www.imcworldwide.org/images/pictures/somalia2013.jpg

Riiiiiiiiiiiight. I sure do see Aliens not african blacks. I just randomly searched somalis from the search engine and didn't even carefully select anyone.

quote:

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I have seen thousands of Somalis on tv and in pictures, and yes nothing peculiar or something I haven't seen from black Americans or black Africans.

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Now you are telling me there is no difference between the so-called "blacks" of West Africa and Somalis, feature-wise. This itself officially ends the discussion. Nothing to add further until you see a Somali person in person. Thank you.

But before we go, I have a little infamous (famous) quote for you:

quote:

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A white woman dipped in chocolate

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And showing some hard googled some of Somali Bantus won't prove you anything.

Aint no "mullatos."

Don't hate, we are just Somalis!

quote:

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Originally posted by Yonis:
Waryaa, those girls are northern Somalis, the majority live in the southern area, and they don't look like that.

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your talking b.s. And i cant belive you had Odacity to post such an ignorant statement. obviosly you have no knowlage about the somali people and their culture.

please have the courtesy to find out things for your self then just to post such garbage acording to your lack of knowlage and hate.

As far as those ladies abouve, you cant say what part of somalia they came from acording to their looks, because all somalies look alike.

THESE ARE SOME BASIC FACTS TO KNOW:

ALL SOMALIES LOOK ALIKE. THEY CAN TELL FROM ONE ANOTHER.

NO ADMIXTURE GOING ON. JUST INTER-MARRIAGE.

SAME FAITH.

AND ARE A VERY, VERY, OLD RACE IN HISTORY.

quote:

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Originally posted by COBRA:
your talking b.s. And i cant belive you had Odacity to post such an ignorant statement. obviosly you have no knowlage about the somali people and their culture.

please have the courtesy to find out things for your self then just to post such garbage acording to your lack of knowlage and hate.

As far as those ladies abouve, you cant say what part of somalia they come acording to their looks, because all somalies look alike.

THESE ARE SOME BASIC FACTS TO KNOW:

ALL SOMALIES LOOK ALIKE. THEY CAN TELL FROM ONE ANOTHER.

NO ADMIXTURE GOING ON. JUST INTER-MARRIAGE.

SAME FAITH.

AND ARE A VERY, VERY, OLD RACE IN HISTORY.

[This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 05 June 2005).]

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The somalis have mixed with the arabs like no one in East Africa, and you tell me there is no admixture. Even before Islam they were mixing with Arabs for a 1000 years.

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:
The somalis have mixed with the arabs like no one in East Africa, and you tell me there is no admixture. Even before Islam they were mixing with Arabs for a 1000 years.

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get it to your thick head:

NO ADMIXTURE GOING ON. JUST INTER-MARRIAGE.

If there is admixture their are few in number.

quote:

---

Originally posted by COBRA:
your talking b.s. And i cant belive you had Odacity to post such an ignorant statement. obviosly you have no knowlage about the somali people and their culture.

please have the courtesy to find out things for your self then just to post such garbage acording to your lack of knowlage and hate.

As far as those ladies abouve, you cant say what part of somalia they come acording to their looks, because all somalies look alike.

THESE ARE SOME BASIC FACTS TO KNOW:

ALL SOMALIES LOOK ALIKE. THEY CAN TELL FROM ONE ANOTHER.

NO ADMIXTURE GOING ON. JUST INTER-MARRIAGE.

SAME FAITH.

AND ARE A VERY, VERY, OLD RACE IN HISTORY.

[This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 05 June 2005).]

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The qeation shouldn't be weather we look like you Arabs. The question should be weather you you guys look like us. Because we have been around much longer then arabs ever been.

In fact the Arabs themselves are of West Asian and East African origin, and to what relative degree(?), no one can say.

And, while there is little question that but that modern West Asian Arabs are of predominently Asian, and not African lineage it is nontheless true that many AsianArab groups have more African lineage than East Africans have West Asian lineage.

A good example is the Oman which has about 25% African Y chromosome of which 8% is of WEST/CENTRAL AFRICAN [E3a] origin.

Many "Asian" Arabs have far more African heritage than the Somali have Asian.

Indeed Oman has more WEST/CENTRAL African lineage than many East African groups do.

Arab is not a race.

There is no - 'pure' ethnic Arab.

quote:

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Originally posted by Yonis:

Most Somalis don't look like that.

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This is what i advice you you to do. Buy a first class ticket, strait for somalia or you can go to the nearest somali comunity to you. And find more about the people and their culture. May be then you might find some scence in my point. till then please dont spout your ignorance on the thread.

By the way it would be a good day out.

thank you, becuse you have backed my point with those pictures.

i bet ignorance is a bliss in your case.

my i ask......are you a woman by any chance.

LOL You are so brainwashed it's not even funny. What is the point of posting pictures of "african blacks" that have lighter brown skin tone? All I did was did a research and just randomly pick out Somalis not like you "intentionally" trying to find the ones with lighter skin tone that still don't look different from the other Africans. Only difference is the pics you shown actually look more like African-Americans than black Africans. You continue to prove my point that you deny your blackness. You are as worse as the Puerto Ricans. Absolutely no concept of reality or what race is. Only in your own "neverland" will the somalis considered anything other than the African blacks. This discussion is getting dumber everyday. lol I'm here trying to debate over the obvious something 99.99% of the people in the world would agree with.

"A white woman dipped in chocolate", they look nothing like a white woman. Why don't you go outside of a world once and ACTUALLY see how white woman look like. If you haven’t seen an actual white woman this discussion is going nowhere. You somehow have this image that black women should have big nose, fat lips, and chocolate black skin color. A lot of black women here in US look like those pics you shown and none of them would be misrecognized as white or "chocolate dipped Caucasian". I think you are too probably ignorant to realize what "figurative of speech is". Now tell me what this European identity crisis is instead of trying change subject. It doesn’t matter what you two think about Somali. Bottom line is once you come out of the well you would realize that Somalis world wide are considered African black NOTHING else. Okay? I have never heard of Somalis being anything else than black African.

P.S “hard googled” LOL You are such a homer. You go ahead and check Somalia and you’ll find pictures of dark black people. You are getting paranoid here aren’t you. It’s like completely in denial of blackness thus my point of only identity crisis are countries with dark complexion or of African black admixture.