posted
...Condescending??? My response wasn't even directly addressed to you! Only to a stubborn insistence on following the diversion introduced by Bettyboo to the discussion...Nap...Germanic...???
Here's my original post on the topic of NAPPY:
quote:(from)
Ancient Egypt: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent who do not chemically alter their hair texture.
...it's Bettyboo who has got some here muddled in Europe...
and I can hear her chuckling at her success...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: PLEASE STUDY THIS...
quote:BABE LATE 14c, SHORT FOR BABAN (EARLY 13c), WHICH PROBABLY IS IMITATIVE OF BABY TALK, HOWEVER IN MANY LANGUAGES THE COGNATE WORD MEANS "OLD WOMAN", SUPERSEDED BY BABY
BABY - FIRST BORN (SON OF OSIRIS, THE GREAT ANCESTOR; NTERWER)
...MOVES TO EUROPE AND BECOMES IN GREEK BEBON
quote:BABY LATE 14c., BABI, DIM. OF BABAN (SEE BABE)
ALA, ALI, OL, ALAL - HIGH, EXALTED
MDU NTR: ALA_WA = EXALTED ONE
YORUBA: OBAT_ALA, FATHER OF ALL THE ORISHAS AND ALL OF HUMANITY
posted
As far as I can ascertain BettyBoo was correct in stating American English nappy derives from nap and is Germanic at root.
Unlike Egyptian nepi meaning hair, Germanic nap applies firstly to wool and secondly to those fabrics having pile.
Asar went on to defend his take that nap derives from Niger-Congo though he doesn't state how it entered 15th century Germanic as a word applied to wool as per Merriam-Webster.
Dana saw no meaning to English nap other than an extended doze. The tertiary definition I provided showed where it applied to materials like wool and hence to wooly hair.
If your post of 28 December, 2009 11:05 PM with the ridiculing phrase "follow the yellow brick road" hadn't been in reply to a post of mine then I wouldn't've responded to you.
I don't know who the "some here muddled in Europe" quip is refering to but I don't think Asar, Dana, nor myself deserve such commentary. BettyBoo may be lost in Simon Sez land but we other three have each shown original think and proposed paradigms outside any teachings obtained from Euro institutions.
Now if I took you wrong please accept my apologies. Nonetheless, to strengthen your case it'd be helpful to propose at what time and in what circumstances the Egyptic words entered the Germanic or European lexicons.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...Condescending??? My response wasn't even directly addressed to you! Only to a stubborn insistence on following the diversion introduced by Bettyboo to the discussion...Nap...Germanic...???
...it's Bettyboo who has got some here muddled in Europe...
and I can hear her chuckling at her success...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Cognate: A word related to one in another language.
My purpose is to trace the lineage of Mdu Ntr to African Americanisms; to show an obvious reality that not every word in African American English originated in Europe; **in fact, like Greek, many words in the European languages are borrowings from the African language:
Ex: the word 'Beau' (Fr. boyfriend) is NOT the ancestor of the African American 'Boo', but they both (may - Fr. Beau) have shared origins in the Mdu Ntr 'Bou':
Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
---
You can insist that 'nappy' is from the English 'nap' < 'noppe' < ??? because it says so in Merriam-Webster...fine...
I have merely proven that these two words are cognates:
Napy - Ancient Egyptian hair
Nappy - African American hair
...
** "...How are we astonished when we reflect that to the race of negroes, at present our slaves, and the objects of our extreme contempt, we owe our arts, sciences, and even the very use of speech..." Count Volney c1783-85
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
You haven't proven cognate status because nappy is the adjective form of nap and nap is a characteristic of wool.
Nappy doesn't mean hair. Among other things it describes hair possessing nap.
Nap is to nappy as wool is to wooly as hair is to hairy
A noun can be an adjective in Egyptic. As a noun nepi means hair. As an adjective nepi means hairy.
I'm not talking generalities here. We know there are lingual carryovers from Africa in the languages blacks speak in all the Americas. I'm asking you to realistically trace a specific word's usage through time and space.
So you can produce nothing to show how an ancient Egyptic word shows up a couple of thousand years later (15th century CE) and a couple of thousand miles away (the European Lowlands)? Poof, it just happened like the girl with the cat? And I'm so supposed to present this in discussions elsewhere (where I won't be preaching to the choir) as viable linguistic methodology, study, and research?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
@ Wally, in your Yoruba example in regards to Obatala, it is incorrect. Obatala is three words: OBA + OTA + ALA = king + stone + white light = king of the white light (some say cloth). It is a liturgical term in Ifa that refers to the process of light emerging out of the solidity of primordial matter.
Linguist Modupe Oduyoye argues however that Obatala is really OBA + TALA which means (KING + HIGH) "exalted king." A reflex in Arabic for 'tala' is TALI (high).
You may be quick to say "well in my example for the mdw ntr I have exalted/high." You have to explain how the Mdw Ntr doesn't have the /t/ in initial position but Yoruba and Arabic does.
You would also have to explain how Egyptian "arwarw" somehow matches with Yoruba OLU. The lion is a RW sound (ro in many instances). You have correctly that OLU and ALLAH are cognate, but you have to explain the evolution of the term. OLU is cognate with the old Semitic form AL or ALA. The root is VC (vowel/consonant): AL, EL, OL, IL, etc. Some will say that ALLAH is two words: Al+Ilah (the God).
These are things you have to explain for your renderings to be convincing. Sound alikes don't mean cognates.
Your rendering of RAN in Yoruba and Egyptian is unconvincing because there is no root in Yoruba -rn- to mean "name." Here are the cognates for name in the Yoruba:
Yoruba = Daruko (d-r-k) = to mention Arabic = Dakara (d-k-r) = to mention Assyrian = zikara (z-k-r) = to mention, to name
This is an “Afro-Asiatic” triconsonantal verbal root d-r-k/d-k-r which means to “mention or name.” The Semetic keeps the root in tact, but in Yoruba they “analyze” it – looses it up into “verb-nominal collocation”: daruko “to mention”(da’ ruko “to mention the name of”) –ruko “name” which was then restructured and given legitimate lexical status as a VCVCV noun by the usual non-forming process of vowel prefixing: -ruko > oruko. Oruko is the common Yoruba word for “name.” Not –ran.
The word RAN in Yoruba means to “remember” or “remind.”
Ran mi l’ eti = remind me ran ‘ti = remember ni mi ni ‘ran “remind me” (Ijebu dialect) ni ‘ran “remember” (Ijebu dialect)
Ran doesn’t stand by itself any longer in Yoruba.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: @ Wally, in your Yoruba example in regards to Obatala, it is incorrect...
...and too much "information"; in order to "correct" my paper...?
This is what I wrote:
"YORUBA: OBATALA, FATHER OF ALL THE ORISHAS AND ALL OF HUMANITY"
What is incorrect in this statement? Hint - Nothing...
Yoruba - Ran
According to author J. Olumide Lucas (a Yoruba):
quote: (In Mdu Ntr) ran-i means 'name me', and according to the context does duty for 'my name' or for 'I call', etc...(and) applies, almost in every detail, to the Yoruba language. Thus, ran-mi in Yoruba means 'send me', 'help me', 'pain me', 'call me', etc., according to the position of the accent on the word ran...--The Religion of the Yorubas
The standard rendering for 'name' in Yoruba is orúkô
----
You also wrote: "the lion is a rw sound"
Both Coptic (contemporary Mdu Ntr) and "Egyptology" disagree with you on this; the lion can be either an 'r' or an 'l' - and with the assistance of the reference language of Coptic, we know that it is 'L' > Coptic "OL" = exalted.
You then write:
"Sound alikes don't mean cognates. "
Where pray tell, in any of my examples, have I ever shown this simpleton's notion? And right after I have just given the example of 'Ran' in Mdu Ntr and 'Ran' in Japanese to demonstrate that words that are spelled alike/sound alike aren't necessarily cognates...Jeez!
posted
Again, when you learn the basics of Linguistics, you will see where Archdeacon Lucas got many things wrong in his work, including the concept of ran-i. Ran means to remember, it is not used for name. I have already demonstrated that.
This is the next book you need to purchase: Yoruba Names: Their structure and their meanings by Modupe Oduyoye. Dr. Lucas was not a linguist. Modupe is and a native speaker.
This is what you quoted in regards to Obatala:
quote: MDU NTR: ALA_WA = EXALTED ONE
YORUBA: OBAT_ALA, FATHER OF ALL THE ORISHAS AND ALL OF HUMANITY
YORUBA: OLU_WA = OUR GOD
ARABIC: ALLAH = GOD
What was incorrect was your association of ALLAH with Yoruba ALA. One means God the other is White Light. We can make an argument that RA, AL and ALA (Yoruba) are cognate based on light. But not TALA and ALLAH without explanation of the /t/ and the fact that ALLAH is AL-Ilah (the God).
Yoruba OLU (lord, master, God) is Cognate with ALA/ALLAH. And OLUWA is "head" and is ORUWO in the Ijebu dialect. The Cognate in Hebrew is 'lwh (God). It does not break down into "our god." It is based off the same root as ORI (head), Ras (Semitic - head), ORISA (head, God), hry (Egyptian, upper, headman).
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Again, when you learn the basics of Linguistics, you will see where Archdeacon Lucas got many things wrong in his work, including the concept of ran-i. Ran means to remember, it is not used for name.....
(A diversion into Yoruba - some relevant notes)
...Hmmm, a Yoruba Doctor, and because he's not a "linguist", he is incapable of explaining his own language?!?
quote:(In Mdu Ntr) ran-i means 'name me', and according to the context does duty for 'my name' or for 'I call', etc...(and) applies, almost in every detail, to the Yoruba language. Thus, ran-mi in Yoruba means 'send me', 'help me', 'pain me', 'call me', etc., according to the position of the accent on the word ran...--Lucas, The Religion of the Yorubas
a) (In Mdu Ntr) ran-i means 'name me', 'my name', 'call me', etc.
b) (Yoruba)...ran-mi would also mean 'like me'...
Bee ni, mo ran(like) e(you): Yes, I like you
Mo fe-ran omi: I like water
----
rántí, níran: remember
---- Oluwa, Olu, Ôlörun, Olódùmarè: God
Obatala: King of the White Cloth. In Haiti, Obatala is known as Damballah
Oluwafemi: God loves me
Olufemi: God loves me
Oluwasegun: God has been victorious
----
Mdu Ntr - Olawa: Exalted One
----
Olorun
In Yorùbá mythology, Olorun is the Sky Father (though occasionally androgynous or female), and a god of peace, purity and harmony. He is strongly associated with the color white, and controls everything that is white, such as bones, the brain, and clouds. He is the father of Odudua and Obatala.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
You're still wrong. The word nappy which is an adverb or adjective comes from the word Nap which means to knot; or something that is wiry or tightly coiled. Nap and knot can be used interchangeably. The word Jam can be either a verb or noun and it is just another english word; it has nothing to do with black Americans and neither does the word dig. "dig" is an english word and relatively used to mean understand or getting to the crux or core of something...another way to comphrehend or analyze. It doens't have anything to do with black english. The british used it in that same context before African American slaves.
I would like to know when and where English used the word "Nap" as "to knot" in Britain or America in the English dialects. From what I understand the word as a verb in English has always meant to sleep for a short period, but that is just maybe something American English dictionaries are unaware of. Furthermore, it would be of importance to discovery that "to jam" is or was used in the same way British used it.
You people are too beside yourselves. The word "Nap" can mean to sleep. In that case it would be an adjective and not a noun, adverb, or verb. The word "Nap" as in knot or to knot is indeed Germanic in origin and is derived from the English language. Nap or nappy means wiry, knotted, tightly coiled, or kinky if used to describe a surface of something.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Cognate: A word related to one in another language.
My purpose is to trace the lineage of Mdu Ntr to African Americanisms; to show an obvious reality that not every word in African American English originated in Europe; **in fact, like Greek, many words in the European languages are borrowings from the African language:
Ex: the word 'Beau' (Fr. boyfriend) is NOT the ancestor of the African American 'Boo', but they both (may - Fr. Beau) have shared origins in the Mdu Ntr 'Bou':
Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
---
You can insist that 'nappy' is from the English 'nap' < 'noppe' < ??? because it says so in Merriam-Webster...fine...
I have merely proven that these two words are cognates:
Napy - Ancient Egyptian hair
Nappy - African American hair
...
** "...How are we astonished when we reflect that to the race of negroes, at present our slaves, and the objects of our extreme contempt, we owe our arts, sciences, and even the very use of speech..." Count Volney c1783-85
nappy (adj.) "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is fromo1950."
The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather then in Germany. We have to remember a lot of American words have an African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words.
Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...Condescending??? My response wasn't even directly addressed to you! Only to a stubborn insistence on following the diversion introduced by Bettyboo to the discussion...Nap...Germanic...???
Here's my original post on the topic of NAPPY:
quote:(from)
Ancient Egypt: napy - a lock of Ancient Egyptian hair
(to)
African American: nappy - tightly coiled / curled unaltered hair. Coiled hair in its natural state as found on people of African descent who do not chemically alter their hair texture.
...it's Bettyboo who has got some here muddled in Europe...
and I can hear her chuckling at her success...
The word "nap" is Germanic in origin, derivative of the english language you scumbag. The word "Nappy" means the process to form a nap! It is used to described the naps of african hair or a surface that has a nap texture or appearance. It means the same thing as wiry, tightly curled, coiled, or kinky. It is not African in origin.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Cognate: A word related to one in another language.
My purpose is to trace the lineage of Mdu Ntr to African Americanisms; to show an obvious reality that not every word in African American English originated in Europe; **in fact, like Greek, many words in the European languages are borrowings from the African language:
Ex: the word 'Beau' (Fr. boyfriend) is NOT the ancestor of the African American 'Boo', but they both (may - Fr. Beau) have shared origins in the Mdu Ntr 'Bou':
Bou - to regard with wonder, delight, love
---
You can insist that 'nappy' is from the English 'nap' < 'noppe' < ??? because it says so in Merriam-Webster...fine...
I have merely proven that these two words are cognates:
Napy - Ancient Egyptian hair
Nappy - African American hair
...
** "...How are we astonished when we reflect that to the race of negroes, at present our slaves, and the objects of our extreme contempt, we owe our arts, sciences, and even the very use of speech..." Count Volney c1783-85
nappy (adj.) "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is fromo1950."
The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather then in Germany. We have to remember a lot of American words have an African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words.
Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
You afronuts keep pushing it. Majority of all American words have English, Germanic, Latin, Greek origin and little, if any, have African origins. The "opressors" never communicated to the Africans through the means of African words. They spoke their native language to the Africans and it was the Africans who were forced to understand and communicate; it wasn't the other way around. The word 'Nap' is Germanic in origin, derived from the english language and the suffix 'Y' makes it an adjective and/or adverb when it applies to hair. When hair is called "nappy" it just means it has the appearance and texture of a nap or knot.
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quote:Meti Sutn Anu wrote: The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather than in Germany. We have to remember that a lot of American words have African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words. Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany, yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
quote:Meti Sutn Anu wrote: The word nappy seems to have more of its origins in the Americans rather than in Germany. We have to remember that a lot of American words have African origins because the oppressors had to communicate to the oppressed by using African words. Many of the oppressors came from Spain and Brit but not Germany, yet this word was in circulation since the beginning of slavery here in the Americas.
Mdu Ntr Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
Wolof: Nab: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
African Americanism Nappy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hair
...but human vocabulary does not have to necessarily come directly to America by Africans, but can come indirectly...
Mdu Ntr
Baby; Babe, Babe, Baby, Beby - the first-born (son of Osiris)
Greek;
The Greeks then adopted this term which became in their language Bebon
English - 14 century
Bebon in Greek eventually became Baban in 14 century English.
English - modern
Baban would modify to become Babe, which would be superceded by Baby - representing a dialectical transformation back into its original form!
You're still pushing it. 'Nappy' isn't an African-American word. African Americans don't have their own language since they speak english. It was the British and slave holders who called black slaves hair 'nappy.' African-Americans wouldn't call their hair nappy because they take offense to it because it is a word that was used in a derogatory manner by whites and slave holders. Secondly, 'nappy' is never used to describe braids or a braid. I already told you that the word is Germanic in origin, a derivative of the English language that means to form a knot or to knot or to have a nap shape or nap feel. Black people never came up with the word nappy to describe their hair. It comes from the slave holders and white racists to describe black people's hair. It is just another English word so get over it. The connection is not there.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
There is only one person here "pushing it".
Black people in America use the word "naps" and "nappy" to describe their hair ALL OF THE TIME - Just as they use other words other people aren't supposed to use. The word nappy basically means someone with hair that is in KNOTS! PERIOD!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Though the word in fact is Germanic, slave narratives show that it was used endearingly by the African Americans of that era. Only Black Americans ashamed of their God given features have since then made it internally derogatory, a result of the era of integration, a time of major regression in terms of self determination.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Though the word in fact is Germanic, slave narratives show that it was used endearingly by the African Americans of that era. Only Black Americans ashamed of their God given features have since then made it internally derogatory, a result of the era of integration, a time of major regression in terms of self determination.
I am guessing you have the evidence that the word "nap" means "knot" in the "Germanic" language group. Since you do, it would be great if you would provide the evidence so the question can be settled for those of us here on this blog.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Not sure what you mean by knot. I assume you don't mean an uncombable tangle in a tress of hair as in natty dreadlocks. I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead."
See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Though the word in fact is Germanic, slave narratives show that it was used endearingly by the African Americans of that era. Only Black Americans ashamed of their God given features have since then made it internally derogatory, a result of the era of integration, a time of major regression in terms of self determination.
I am guessing you have the evidence that the word "nap" means "knot" in the "Germanic" language group. Since you do, it would be great if you would provide the evidence so the question can be settled for those of us here on this blog.
Bytch shut the fvck up! The word NAP is GERMANIC in origin, deriving from the English word Nap as to mean to knot or a knot surface or texture. KINKY is Germanic deriving from Swedish language. What the fvck is up with you gorillas. Nappy is NOT an African-American word. There are no African-American words and African-Americans find the word "Nappy" offensive and insulting. It is believed to be derogative amongst the African American community you fvcking ape bytch. Here are three African-American words for you: Goober, Ninny, Tote. I hope you are happy.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
You're not smart. For the last time the word nap as it applies to hair simply means the texture or appearance of a NAP you fvcking gorilla. The word NAP is GERMANIC in origin deriving from the English language. Hair is not the only thing that can be describe as a NAP or Nappy...so can a Carpet or any other surface that has a 'nap' appearance. Black hair is indeed fvcking Knotty. Black hair forms Knots and it's appearance is like a bunch of Naps or Knots and it feels that way! You can describe hair in various ways such as straight, nappy, curly, wavy, Kinky, Knotty, Frizzy, thick, thin, red, black, grey, white, blonde, bushy, poofy, limp, etc...The word NAP or NAPPY fits right in with any other adjective as it describes hair. You can find the etymology yourself. It is so easy.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Not sure what you mean by knot. I assume you don't mean an uncombable tangle in a tress of hair as in natty dreadlocks. I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead."
See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
You're not smart. You know exactly what the word knot means. It describes the hair texture of the majority of blacks of African descent. Shut the fvck up with your "etymological" evidence since it doesn't make you sound any smarter. Look it up yourself. They evidence is not hard to find.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
^ ma'm, you are not a linguist, historian or even a rational person, you believe in the magical tales of the Bible for god sake! Go get yourself an education, and I mean a real one not the one you get at Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson's university. Then you'll understand what "etymological evidence" entails.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Keep it civil, you need not resort to name calling and if you look carefully you'll see you've said nothing about the word nap, its meaning, that I haven't posted just the same (albeit with intelligence and better grammar).
BTW I'm not a gorilla. I'm a red monkey and my nappy hair is soft to the touch just like a downy blanket. Thank G-d for the pure wool on my knotty head.
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
You're not smart. For the last time the word nap as it applies to hair simply means the texture or appearance of a NAP you fvcking gorilla. The word NAP is GERMANIC in origin deriving from the English language. Hair is not the only thing that can be describe as a NAP or Nappy...so can a Carpet or any other surface that has a 'nap' appearance. Black hair is indeed fvcking Knotty. Black hair forms Knots and it's appearance is like a bunch of Naps or Knots and it feels that way! You can describe hair in various ways such as straight, nappy, curly, wavy, Kinky, Knotty, Frizzy, thick, thin, red, black, grey, white, blonde, bushy, poofy, limp, etc...The word NAP or NAPPY fits right in with any other adjective as it describes hair. You can find the etymology yourself. It is so easy.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Nap is used in quality of wool or fabrics with a pile like terrycloth. Brits call diapers nappies. Smooth and nappy are juxtaposable terms.
quote:Woolens are often brushed to raise the ends of the wool fibers in a soft, fluffy nap above the surface of the cloth. Naps range from the lightly brushed surfaces of a flannel to the deep-pile of fleecy coatings. Deep naps are produced by passing the fabric over cylinders covered with fine metal wires and small hooks. These hooks pull fiber ends to the surface to create the nap.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Main Entry: nap [tertiary entry] Function: noun Etymology: Middle English noppe, from Middle Dutch, flock of wool, nap Date: 15th century : a hairy or downy surface (as on a fabric)
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I can agree with his contentions on "boo" as not traceable to an African language, but you are mistaken on JAM, DIG and NAP. I don't think Nap is traceable to Egyptian however. I have already given the resources on where the other terms come from in the Niger-Congo languages.
You're still wrong. The word nappy which is an adverb or adjective comes from the word Nap which means to knot; or something that is wiry or tightly coiled. Nap and knot can be used interchangeably. The word Jam can be either a verb or noun and it is just another english word; it has nothing to do with black Americans and neither does the word dig. "dig" is an english word and relatively used to mean understand or getting to the crux or core of something...another way to comphrehend or analyze. It doens't have anything to do with black english. The british used it in that same context before African American slaves.
I would like to know when and where English used the word "Nap" as "to knot" in Britain or America in the English dialects. From what I understand the word as a verb in English has always meant to sleep for a short period, but that is just maybe something American English dictionaries are unaware of. Furthermore, it would be of importance to discovery that "to jam" is or was used in the same way British used it.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome and mtDNA variation in Africa: evidence for sex-biased demographic processes. Division of Biotechnology, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721, USA.
To investigate associations between genetic, linguistic, and geographic variation in Africa, we type 50 Y chromosome SNPs in 1122 individuals from 40 populations representing African geographic and linguistic diversity. We compare these patterns of variation with those that emerge from a similar analysis of published mtDNA HVS1 sequences from 1918 individuals from 39 African populations. For the Y chromosome, Mantel tests reveal a strong partial correlation between genetic and linguistic distances (r=0.33, P=0.001) and no correlation between genetic and geographic distances (r=-0.08, P>0.10). In contrast, mtDNA variation is weakly correlated with both language (r=0.16, P=0.046) and geography (r=0.17, P=0.035). AMOVA indicates that the amount of paternal among-group variation is much higher when populations are grouped by linguistics (Phi(CT)=0.21) than by geography (Phi(CT)=0.06). Levels of maternal genetic among-group variation are low for both linguistics and geography (Phi(CT)=0.03 and 0.04, respectively). When Bantu speakers are removed from these analyses, the correlation with linguistic variation disappears for the Y chromosome and strengthens for mtDNA. These data suggest that patterns of differentiation and gene flow in Africa have differed for men and women in the recent evolutionary past. We infer that sex-biased rates of admixture and/or language borrowing between expanding Bantu farmers and local hunter-gatherers played an important role in influencing patterns of genetic variation during the spread of African agriculture in the last 4000 years.
Y-chromosomal diversity in Europe is clinal and influenced primarily by geography, rather than by language.
Clinal patterns of autosomal genetic diversity within Europe have been interpreted in previous studies in terms of a Neolithic demic diffusion model for the spread of agriculture; in contrast, studies using mtDNA have traced many founding lineages to the Paleolithic and have not shown strongly clinal variation. We have used 11 human Y-chromosomal biallelic polymorphisms, defining 10 haplogroups, to analyze a sample of 3,616 Y chromosomes belonging to 47 European and circum-European populations. Patterns of geographic differentiation are highly nonrandom, and, when they are assessed using spatial autocorrelation analysis, they show significant clines for five of six haplogroups analyzed. Clines for two haplogroups, representing 45% of the chromosomes, are continentwide and consistent with the demic diffusion hypothesis. Clines for three other haplogroups each have different foci and are more regionally restricted and are likely to reflect distinct population movements, including one from north of the Black Sea. Principal-components analysis suggests that populations are related primarily on the basis of geography, rather than on the basis of linguistic affinity. This is confirmed in Mantel tests, which show a strong and highly significant partial correlation between genetics and geography but a low, nonsignificant partial correlation between genetics and language. Genetic-barrier analysis also indicates the primacy of geography in the shaping of patterns of variation. These patterns retain a strong signal of expansion from the Near East but also suggest that the demographic history of Europe has been complex and influenced by other major population movements, as well as by linguistic and geographic heterogeneities and the effects of drift.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
alTakruri wrote: ---------------------------- I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead." ----------------------------
What is an "inner African"?
You used the term, you tell us what it means.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Not sure what you mean by knot. I assume you don't mean an uncombable tangle in a tress of hair as in natty dreadlocks. I assume you mean wooly headed as in the average inner African as has been used to nickname a certain brand of gin as "knottyhead."
See above where the etymology from Dutch to English is supplied from a dictionary entry.
On the other hand please provide etymological evidence that nap (from the characteristic of wool to pile) has some other origin.
yes actually I do mean an uncombable tangle which is what people of African descent call naps here in America. it is not generally used by Europeans for obvious reasons. It is what we mean when we say "to comb the naps out of ones hair". And no - we dont just use the word nappy for simply kinky or woolly hair. Nappy means African hair with naps in it. It implies something that needs to be untangled.
I guess the black American idea of naps is not the same as what Africans have come to assume it is.
There is, of course, also the possiblity that the European word noppe for wool and the African nap for knot originated in the same place.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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What we are dealing with here is an example of sublime ignorance on the part of those confronting new evidence.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about...
SENSEN
quote: Sen-Sen was to the 19th century what breath mints are to our time. Any country store worth its salt, prominently displayed a box of the handy little packets within easy reach of its customers. The origin of the name Sen-Sen is apparently lost to history. In all the documents that were received at the sale of the company, none mentioned how it’s name originally came about. In Japan "sen-sen" means glistening, shiny or bright, but there is no documentation to indicate any connection between these meanings and the product.
...Seemingly unaware of this evidence...
SENSEN: BAD BREATH, ALSO TO BREATHE
So, even when presented with evidence, of which they were previously unaware of its existence, the sublimely ignorant stubbornly retreat to rote definitions -(Inference) - nap: fuzzy surface of a fabric (English)- which also appear unaware of this evidence - (direct) - nab; napy: African hair (Mdu Ntr)...
Nab Sheni: to plait the hair
Napy es ebeh: her wet hair ...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
...You must first learn the difference between complimentary and contradictory ; and primary and sole... A Reading comprehension course might help you also...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: NORTHWEST AFRICA TO THE GULF OF GUINEA - A PRIMARY SOURCE FOR THE TRANS-ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE TO THE UNITED STATES...
posted
So Wally are you saying that berbers, kabyles, arabs, and other so called "non-blacks" from the nations of Morocco, Algeria, Mauritania, and Tunisia were brought to the americas as slaves?
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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What we are dealing with here is an example of sublime ignorance on the part of those confronting new evidence.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about...
SENSEN
quote: Sen-Sen was to the 19th century what breath mints are to our time. Any country store worth its salt, prominently displayed a box of the handy little packets within easy reach of its customers. The origin of the name Sen-Sen is apparently lost to history. In all the documents that were received at the sale of the company, none mentioned how it’s name originally came about. In Japan "sen-sen" means glistening, shiny or bright, but there is no documentation to indicate any connection between these meanings and the product.
...Seemingly unaware of this evidence...
SENSEN: BAD BREATH, ALSO TO BREATHE
So, even when presented with evidence, of which they were previously unaware of its existence, the sublimely ignorant stubbornly retreat to rote definitions -(Inference) - nap: fuzzy surface of a fabric (English)- which also appear unaware of this evidence - (direct) - nab; napy: African hair (Mdu Ntr)...
Nab Sheni: to plait the hair
Napy es ebeh: her wet hair ...
Yes - actually I never heard anything about the word "Nap" being used for "fuzzy" or "wool" in early American literature, but I guess its a possibility. I think the best way to determine where it came from is looking at old slave narratives and writings of white Americans.
I would think though that since as late as the 19th century blacks made up from 60-80 percent of some southern states that there should be many native African words still in use among us, not the least of which would be "nappy".
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I have to reconsider the etymology of the term "boo" and consider an African origin for the term. However, I still have not found evidence of this term traceable to Ancient Egyptian as argued by Wally. Wally argues the following:
The term "bo" (boo) is traceable to the Temne and Vai languages which means a "friend: informal address to an equal." West African and Caribbean English bo, ba.
There is another term "booboo" which derives from the Bantu mbuku, meaning "stupid, blundering act; error, blunder." This definitely is not a term of endearmeant.
Neither term is traceable to a root meaning "to shine" which renders the Egyptian/kiKala (African-American English) connection in the realm of folk etymology.
For renderings of "bo" see David Dalby, "The African Element in Black English" in Thomas Kochman, ed, Rappin and Stylin Out: Communication in Urban Black America pg 177
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:dana wrote: Yes - actually I never heard anything about the word "Nap" being used for "fuzzy" or "wool" in early American literature, but I guess its a possibility. I think the best way to determine where it came from is looking at old slave narratives and writings of white Americans.
I would think though that since as late as the 19th century blacks made up from 60-80 percent of some southern states that there should be many native African words still in use among us, not the least of which would be "nappy".
...yes, and note the convergence of Nappy...
Ex:1
quote:Nappy From nap + -y. Adjective nappy (comparative nappier, superlative nappiest) Positive: nappy Comparative: nappier Superlative: nappiest 1. Having a nap (of cloth etc.). 2. (US, slang) Of hair: tightly curled or twisted; frizzy (occasionally specifically in reference to Blacks' textured hair).
Ex:2
quote: Adjectives such as "firm", "kinky", "nappy" or "spiralled" are often used to describe natural afro-textured hair in Western societies.
Ex:3
quote:Nappy 2. (adj) crisp, frizzly, frizzy, kinky, nappy (of hair) in small tight curls
...with Mdu Ntr - Napy: A braid, knot, or curl, of hairPosts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Asar, You have to follow the flow of this thread...I later added this:
BW (BWBW) = BOU (BOUBOU)
BOU (BOUBOU): TO REGARD WITH WONDER AND DELIGHT; TO LOOK UPON WITH AN ELEVATED FEELING OF PLEASURE, AS SOMETHING WHICH CALLS OUT APPROBATION, ESTEEM, LOVE OR REVERENCE
posted
I'm sorry, but I can't accept this as a cognate. They are not the same terms. Sorry, it is just not!
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I wrote nothing in ignorance nor is the Egyptic word for hair something new or unknown to me.
What we are dealing with hear is the verifiable etymology and use of the Germanic word noppe as a characteristic of hair and not a word that means hair.
Do Black Americans get a nappy cut or a hair cut? Do their women get nappy weaves or hair weaves? Do they have nappy pomade or hair pomade?
Nappy is a kind of hair, not hair itself.
If I'm so sublimely ignorant than what does that make you who invest time and effort to mock me? If I were ignorant you'd habe no need to try to challenge my words, their ignorance would make them worthless and not heeded by anyone.
You're the ignoramus not me.
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
What we are dealing with here is an example of sublime ignorance on the part of those confronting new evidence.
So, even when presented with evidence, of which they were previously unaware of its existence, the sublimely ignorant stubbornly retreat to rote definitions -(Inference) - nap: fuzzy surface of a fabric (English)- which also appear unaware of this evidence - (direct) - nab; napy: African hair (Mdu Ntr)...
Nab Sheni: to plait the hair
Napy es ebeh: her wet hair ...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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