quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Red, White, and Blue + Christian wrote: Wally,
What I am saying to you is that assuming your relatives were enslaved in Louisiana, you are probably part Tuareg and this you have every right to claim as your heritage.
In the very opening statement of this thread, I wrote (African Americans can legitimately claim all of these historical-genetic heritages):
Fortunately for us, the American Slave System did not support the ethnic exclusiveness practiced in Africa by our ancestors; rather it did the opposite and in the process helped to, inadvertently, create a Pan-African ethnic group!
The new misuse of DNA to 'find' an African American's ancestry in any single one of these groups cited above to the exclusion of all the others is pure and simple; its snake oil - a ruse - shell game - bulls***
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
So, if one of my parents is native to SC (Gullah/Geechee)for generations, and other parent from Louisiana, I can claim all of these? Confirmed DNA result, was Mande from one parent so far.
How does one claim all of these groups?
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Red, White, and Blue + Christian wrote: Wally,
What I am saying to you is that assuming your relatives were enslaved in Louisiana, you are probably part Tuareg and this you have every right to claim as your heritage.
In the very opening statement of this thread, I wrote (African Americans can legitimately claim all of these historical-genetic heritages):
Fortunately for us, the American Slave System did not support the ethnic exclusiveness practiced in Africa by our ancestors; rather it did the opposite and in the process helped to, inadvertently, create a Pan-African ethnic group!
The new misuse of DNA to 'find' an African American's ancestry in any single one of these groups cited above to the exclusion of all the others is pure and simple; its snake oil - a ruse - shell game - bulls***
quote:Originally posted by NeferKemet: So, if one of my parents is native to SC (Gullah/Geechee)for generations, and other parent from Louisiana, I can claim all of these? Confirmed DNA result, was Mande from one parent so far.
How does one claim all of these groups?
sorry that you fell for the ruse, but if you enjoyed the adventure, then I suppose it was worth it...
Here's the simple math:
Assume that you were born in 1980 and that your ancestry in the United States goes back to, say, 1730; that means you are the 10th generation of your family in America. The formula for calculating the number of ancestors is n=2^generations, thus you would have 1,024 ancestors from 1730; go back to 1705 and you would have 2,048! And I am certain that you know that the 512 or 1,024 ancestors on one of your parent's side were not all descended exclusively from the Mande ethnic group, maybe a dozen or so perhaps...
The Gullah of South Carolina is not an ethnic group, it's just the name of Africans who were imported to that part of the country and who were resilient in their determination to retain their African traditions; they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I know, and understand that Gullah peoples are not an ethnic group.
Haplogroups are not important either in determining a country of origin?
quote:Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Originally posted by NeferKemet: So, if one of my parents is native to SC (Gullah/Geechee)for generations, and other parent from Louisiana, I can claim all of these? Confirmed DNA result, was Mande from one parent so far.
How does one claim all of these groups?
sorry that you fell for the ruse, but if you enjoyed the adventure, then I suppose it was worth it...
Here's the simple math:
Assume that you were born in 1980 and that your ancestry in the United States goes back to, say, 1730; that means you are the 10th generation of your family in America. The formula for calculating the number of ancestors is n=2^generations, thus you would have 1,024 ancestors from 1730; go back to 1705 and you would have 2,048! And I am certain that you know that the 512 or 1,024 ancestors on one of your parent's side were not all descended exclusively from the Mande ethnic group, maybe a dozen or so perhaps...
The Gullah of South Carolina is not an ethnic group, it's just the name of Africans who were imported to that part of the country and who were resilient in their determination to retain their African traditions; they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent...
Haplogroups are not important either in determining a country of origin?
...Haplogroups serve to identify populations, and usually define a broad geographical location; like humans, haplogroups are not confined to 'countries.' What we're talking about is geneology, and I repeat: ...Common sense from what we KNOW...
Look at, and study this chart: You will note that only 1 in 4 of John Kennedy's grandparents is, in fact, a Kennedy; if we go to his great grandparents, barring incest, only 1 in 8 is a Kennedy; and this increases exponentially with each subsequent generation (1 in 16, 1 in 32, 1 in 64,...).
Thus, it is absurd, even folly, for ANY African American to claim 100% descent from a particular African ethnic group, even President Obama can not (he is too intelligent to do so anyway), his mother would also have to be Luo..
DNA research is an extremely important scientific research tool, but a tool is only as good as how it is used...a gun is a tool.
DNA as used to "determine" any Americans' ancestry is nothing more than a sham - snake oil; a way to separate you from your money - but, it's your money...
It has also been asserted that this "Kennedy" ancestry can be traced back to a northern Italian source...Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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I know that we are from 1 tribe only. I know we are mixed. I am taking for myself Gullah/GeeChee heritage maternally and as one who has visited South Carolina, spoke to my older relative s and lives in a neighborhood with other SC people in NYC. I have looked at variuos gentic reports that you do not have and questioned Dr. Rick Kittles staff.
From all this, I have deduced that I can claim the area from Senegal to Liberia. Plus, West Central Africa and Angola.
But, I am very tall and skinny with a face that can fit into a "Fulani" village.
The gullah foltales match those of the Fulani, Mande and Bantu speakers. The DNA is largely Rice Caost/Senegambian.
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplotypes reveal maternal population genetic affinities of Sea Island Gullah-speaking African Americans David C. McLean Jr. 1 *, Ida Spruill 1, George Argyropoulos 1, Grier P. Page 1, Mark D. Shriver 2, W. Timothy Garvey 1 1Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Medical Genetics, Department of Medicine, Sea Island Families Project and Project Sugar, Medical University of South Carolina, and Ralph H. Johnson Veteran Affairs Medical Center, Charleston, South Carolina 20425 2Department of Anthropology, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802
email: David C. McLean (mcleandc@musc.edu)
*Correspondence to David C. McLean Jr., Department of Biostastics, Bioinformatics, and Epidemiology, Medical University of South Carolina, 135 Cannon St., Suite 305R, P.O. Box 250835, Charleston, SC 29425
Funded by: W.M. Keck Foundation American Diabetes Association National Institutes of Health; Grant Number: DK-47461
Keywords admixture • population genetic substructure • -statistics
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Bettyboo, NeferKemet and Wally,
I know that we are from 1 tribe only. I know we are mixed. I am taking for myself Gullah/GeeChee heritage maternally and as one who has visited South Carolina......
I repeat, DNA as used to "determine" any Americans' ancestry is nothing more than a sham - snake oil; a way to separate you from your money - but, it's your money...Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
alTakruri its apparent you can't back up your fiction. You looney colorstruck bastard. You need for there to be some kind of color conflict. Maybe you are still reeling from being turned down by those berber bitches.
Don't take out your frustrations out on AAs. Seek some psychiatric help instead.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...Ugonabo Onwa Amene continues his essay on the Ancient Egyptian Origins of the Igbo, Edos, Yoruba -- ancestors (Ikhu) of the African American:
"Our confusion and rejection of our Egyptian roots is premised upon years and years of colonial mis-education and doctrine that the Egyptian civilization was attributable to Europeans. The imperialist oppressors never taught our history from its remotest past but taught and narrowed the genesis of African history to the colonial era and advent. Most Europeans who made a good effort to conduct research on African history and anthropology, like Professor Richard Henderson, in his “The King in every man” did excellent works but their works were very prejudicially narrowed in time and scope.
None ever attempted to conduct an indepth study to connect our history to the advanced ancient Egyptian roots. This was a deliberate omission, perhaps premised upon the colonial doctrine that “Africa was a race without a past” because it does not take a lot of studies for one to connect Onicha and closely related communities like the Edos and Yorubas to ancient Egypt."
...I think we've assisted this process within this very thread. So, keep posting your contributions!
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Um yes they do, that is WHY they are "Gullah/Geechee". My neighbor is Geechee, from Georgia and she speaks a totally different language when her family is around. Language is but ONE aspect of culture. After asking of the language I am told it is a creole, but when i heard it it didn't sound like English at all.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. Stick to the topic!
(Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
quote:Originally posted by Wally: The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. Stick to the topic!
(Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
posted
Wally wrote: ----------------------------- they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent... -----------------------------
Folks, the above proves that at some point truth and reality will eventually sink in.
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quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally wrote: ----------------------------- they, like the Africans of Louisiana were imported from all parts of the continent... -----------------------------
Folks, the above proves that at some point truth and reality will eventually sink in.
What precisely is your point? Do you have a point or are you simply doodling...
The Gullah are African Americans, who, like the Creole of Louisiana speak a patois of African-English/French and like all African Americans are the descendants of Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw, Ovimbundu, Kimbundu, Mongo, Luba, Kongo, Mangbetu-Azande, Fang, Punu, Nzeiby, Mbede,...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Wally wrote: -------------------------------------- What precisely is your point? Do you have a point or are you simply doodling... --------------------------------------
Since you want me to go ahead and say it, I will.
The point is that my scholarly beatdowns and intellectual thrashings have finally made you see truth (ie. people were brought as slaves from so called north and east (including the horn) Africa) instead of fantasy (only so called west/central Africans were brought as slaves).
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To the intelligent ones here, please do not respond to any further posts here on this topic by Hammer or argyle104. Let us keep this topic unclogged and/or distracted by lunacy; let us keep it mature and intelligent!
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Um yes they do, that is WHY they are "Gullah/Geechee". My neighbor is Geechee, from Georgia and she speaks a totally different language when her family is around. Language is but ONE aspect of culture. After asking of the language I am told it is a creole, but when i heard it it didn't sound like English at all.
You're fvcking lying. There is no culture in the "Gullah" culture that cannot be found outside of the general African American population. If so, what is it? Gullah speak American English just like every American in the U.S. There is no "creole" language amongst the Gullah. There is no creole language in the U.S. Creole language has been extinct and you will not find it anywhere in the U.S. The Gullah people are descendants of slaves that didn't mix with whites or other ethnic groups. If African-American claim to be "Gullah" and they have mix ancestry then they are lying.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. Stick to the topic!
(Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
quote:Originally posted by Wally: African Americans: A Pan-African people
The north western slave port at Goree Island, Senegal was only one of several points of departure for Africans being taken to the United States. There were other points as well, stretching as far southward as the present state of Angola. These ports of departure were used for transporting Africans from the African interior - a vast interior; this was the standard method of European colonialism to move African resources from the interior to the ports, where roads and rail routes were built expressly for this purpose.
The ethnic origin of African Americans includes, but is not limited to, the following African peoples:
Northwest Africa to the Gulf of Guinea; Mossi, Senufo, Mande, Fulani, Toubou, Fulbe, Sara, Moussei, Massa, Wolof, Akan, Ewe, Mandinga, Songhai, Tuareg, Moor, Hausa, Yoruba, Ibo, Kanuri, Ibibio, Tiv, Ijaw...
In everything, there is both positive as well as negative elements. One of the positive elements of the African slave trade to the United States, was that it created the first contemporary Pan-African ethnic group; a group with a common language and culture and separated only by class distinctions.
To their credit, African Americans, despite the insidious European labeling of some African Americans as 'mulattoes,' 'quadroons,' etc., clearly rejected the caste system that was adopted in Haiti or Jamaica (or South Africa) for example. Marcus Garvey, when he first brought his movement from Jamaica, found this out the hard way, when he tried to use this caste distinction from Jamaica in the USA vis-a-vis WEB DuBois.To Garvey's credit, he quickly adjusted his thinking to this African American ideology of a caste-free community.
African Americans have the unique distinction of being historically-genetically related to a vast majority of African ethnic-linguistic groups. In this sense, the African American identification to all African cultures is not merely a philosophical one, as in the case of a European Swede identifying with a European ancient Greece; The African Americans' identification with all African cultures, including and especially, the ancient Nile valley cultures, is both historically and genetically authentic and valid.
It has nothing at all to do with what one chooses to believe or not to believe...
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Wally wrote:
Define North Africa
Define East Africa
Hypocrite
The topic being discussed here is African Americans and Ancient Egyptians. Since, I posted this topic, then I will moderate it, under the limited conditions available to me: If you do not have factual evidence to add to or to refute elements of this discussion, DO NOT comb through the posts here looking for irrelevant and/or tangential items to comment on. (Tangential: Only slightly relevant to the matter in hand; digressive; divergent.)
We're not discussing the geographical locations of either north or eastern Africa OR hypocrisy... Stick to the topic!Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Thanks for the compliments Dana and Wally,
It's no too late. I got more.
My sub-ethnic group in Black America is the Gullah/Geechee by way of NYC. This group is the link between Africans and African Americans.
The Gullah/Geechee are regular African Americans and they aren't a sub-ethnic group. They don't have a separate culture than what can be found amongst the general African American population.
Um yes they do, that is WHY they are "Gullah/Geechee". My neighbor is Geechee, from Georgia and she speaks a totally different language when her family is around. Language is but ONE aspect of culture. After asking of the language I am told it is a creole, but when i heard it it didn't sound like English at all.
You're fvcking lying. There is no culture in the "Gullah" culture that cannot be found outside of the general African American population. If so, what is it? Gullah speak American English just like every American in the U.S. There is no "creole" language amongst the Gullah. There is no creole language in the U.S. Creole language has been extinct and you will not find it anywhere in the U.S. The Gullah people are descendants of slaves that didn't mix with whites or other ethnic groups. If African-American claim to be "Gullah" and they have mix ancestry then they are lying.
Greetings.
Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Good job Wally, but I still don't see your point. Comparing people with known European and Indian heritage to Africans is a waste of time, the Dr Says!
Posts: 43 | From: Highlands | Registered: Feb 2010
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quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Hey, leave my Gullah people out of this. I resent the fact that you people always pick on them for whatever purpose pleases you.
Posts: 4 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2010
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quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
I'll entertain you this one last time w/ this response (and the information to follow that I will be posting):
As someone who has a good friend whose grandparents are Gullah; and as one who has interacted not infrequently with ones who are Gullah, I know what I am talking about.
htp.
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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ST. HELENA ISLAND, SOUTH CAROLINA—Time has stood still for more than a century on this rural island off the Atlantic Ocean. Dirt roads lead to houses where Gullah families live in clusters the way their ancestors did in Africa. Women wearing head wraps and aprons weave baskets from sea grass and sell them to tourists on their way to the affluent outlying islands.
Sandwiched between the lavish golf courses and gated condo communities of Hilton Head Island and the trendy riverfront village of Beaufort, St. Helena—untouched by massive development—is one of only a few remnants of a bygone era in the South Carolina low country. And the people who live there want to keep it that way.
The Gullahs who live on the island are descendants of West African slaves who worked the rice and cotton fields before they were freed and offered a chance to purchase their land. As whites deserted the coast in favor of milder climates inland, the Gullahs lived in isolation for generations, allowing them to maintain their African culture longer than any slave descendants in America.
But more than 300 years after their arrival, some fear the Gullahs' grip on the past as well as their land is slipping. As older generations die, coastal development moves in and young people leave to find work, the people who once thrived along the coast from northern Florida to North Carolina are struggling to hold on to the ancient customs that defined their culture and remained intact almost a century after the emancipation.
"These are proud people who have always had a strong sense of history and tradition particularly on St. Helena, which was a point of entry for slaves," said Veronica Gerald, a historian on the island. "There was a time we owned all of this land. We helped to build this coastal area and we are fighting very hard to keep St. Helena as true to its natural state as possible. We see what happened to Hilton Head, and we don't want it here."
Theirs is a familiar story of assimilation as told by American Indians, Cajuns in Louisiana and highlanders in Appalachia. No longer able to live in isolation, groups with roots in old America are sucked into the mainstream, where local traditions are forfeited in favor of popular culture.
Saving the Gullahs From Extinction
The National Park Service soon will complete a three-year study to determine what role the government might play in saving the Gullahs from extinction. But it is almost impossible, federal officials concede, to protect them from encroachment. Some land could be set aside as a national park, and crafts and linguistics could be documented in books and exhibits.
No one knows exactly how many Gullah people remain. Estimates range from 200,000 to 500,000. The recent resurgence of interest, activists said, could help connect Gullah communities in all parts of the country, including Texas and Oklahoma, where they mixed with the local Indian population.
The unique language, a melodic blend of 17th and 18th century English and African dialects, is rarely spoken among the Gullahs, or Geechees, as they are called outside South Carolina. Since the 1950s, their farms, their fishing holes and the sea grass fields that fueled their artistry have fallen victim to bulldozers. Other traces of the culture, such as cooking, medicines, storytelling and even magical hoodoo, are increasingly harder to find.
"For a long time, it was considered negative to be Gullah, though we didn't grow up feeling negative about ourselves," said Delo Washington, a retired professor at California State University at Stanislaus. "But we were considered strange people with a strange language. You couldn't get a job speaking that way. "In the '60s, scholars and others began to take a different view of the Gullah-Geechee culture. Africa was seen in a more positive light, particularly by African-Americans," Washington said.
Events, such as the 15-year-old Gullah Festival held in Beaufort last month, will help to spread word of the plight and keep customs alive, said Washington, whose family still owns land on an adjacent island. And Gullah-Geechees who have moved away, such as U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, are stepping up. Thomas, who grew up on the Georgia coast, has said he would like to write a book about the culture.
Still, the tug-of-war over land is likely to go on.
Land Sold or Stolen for Posh Resorts
All along the coast, land that was passed down through generations is being sold and sometimes stolen, as developers seek to create posh resorts like those found on St. Simons Island, Georgia and Hilton Head. Once predominantly owned and occupied by blacks, the properties have become playgrounds for wealthy, mostly white vacationers.
St. Helena, where the population of about 10,000 remains overwhelmingly Gullah, is one of only a handful of the Sea Islands still controlled by blacks. Here, they own 90 percent of the land and control, for the most part, what happens to it. Activists recently persuaded the Beaufort County government to approve a cultural protection overlay district that makes private developments with gated communities, golf courses and tennis courts illegal on the island. But that doesn't keep developers from trying.
"Some people call us land rich and cash poor, but that doesn't matter. Most of the people here won't give up their heart," said Marquetta Goodwine, a lifelong resident and activist on St. Helena. "Most of us don't believe the land of milk and honey is outside St. Helena. Those who bought into that notion, look where they are now. They've been pushed off their island."
According to Emory Campbell, executive director of the Penn Center, a cultural center on St. Helena, property values have skyrocketed on the islands. Though tributaries surround the island, an acre that sold for U.S. $3,000 there a decade ago could go for as much as $20,000 today. Oceanfront property in other areas can sell for $100,000 to $400,000 an acre, he said. But the Gullahs are not the ones getting rich.
After the Civil War, blacks outnumbered whites in the area 11-1 and were allowed to buy the land for $1.25 an acre. But because much of the land is now shared by heirs, many of whom have moved away, it sometimes is sold for below-market prices set by the courts. In some cases, young family members, eager for cash, practically give it away. But often, the land is forfeited because landowners, many of whom are domestic workers at the posh resorts, cannot afford to pay the escalating property taxes.
"This land is valuable to us because it symbolizes freedom," Campbell said. "We're the ones who stayed here and withstood the heat, the mosquitoes and the malaria. It hurts to see what happens when highways and streets are paved, access to waterways is privatized and we are blocked out."
While outsiders have written much about the Gullah-Geechee people, those who know the culture best failed to write it down. Except for St. Helena, where nuns started one of the earliest schools for former slaves, history has been passed on through word of mouth. But like in many cultures, oral history becomes distorted, and as the older storytellers die, no one is left to inform the young.
"Culture is a dynamic phenomenon. There is no such thing as it remaining constant anywhere in the world," said Beverly John, a sociologist and executive assistant to the president at Chicago State University. "People often say, 'Show me the Gullah culture.' But culture comes from within. It isn't openly practiced. Therefore, the Gullah culture will survive."
quote: "All duh people wut come from africa aw oberseas wuz call Golla and dey talk wut call Golla talk." - Georgia,1936
Until quite recently, it was commonly believed that those who spoke Gullah were speaking what many termed broken English.” Few realized that this language is living evidence of a remarkable transformation that took place from Africa to African American culture. People speaking Gullah is a testimony to one of the great acts of human endurance in the history of the world, the survival of African people away from home.
In the early times, slave holders and their visitors on the rice plantations often commented on the presence of the distinct language among the slave population. They had no idea that they were witnesses to a cultural phenomenon. Right before their eyes were the transformation, adaptation and persistence of a culture.
During the times, our people came from different language and culture groups, and geographical regions. They were brought here to be the main labor force in the rice and cotton industries, responsible for the planting, hoeing, ditching, pounding, plowing, basket making, winnowing, picking, and threshing. It goes without saying that communication was necessary for survival and execution.
The language that we developed was born on African soil as a pidgin, an auxiliary language. As in case with pidgins, it was developed for communication purposes, spoken among various African groups in business transactions and intertribal affairs. By the height of the slave trade, pidgins were firmly placed among African groups. When different Africans were captured and housed together in West Coast holding cells, the pidgins spoken in freedom, became their method of communication in captivity.
As time went on, the main auxiliary language combined the most prominent pidgins, other linguistics features and speech patterns common among them with the English words and vocabulary spoken to and about them by the master class. This creolization set the stage, on African soil, for what is now still spoken and called Gullah. It was sustained because of the large numbers of Africans on rice and Sea Island cotton plantations, the isolation that characterized the regions along the coast and the continued influx of pure Africans smuggled into these isolated areas after the slave trade was prohibited.
The lanuage as it exists today still contains African words and language features that can be traced to African groups today. The absence of the verb to be, final t's , and the use of only two pronouns 'e ( he, she it) and onna (you, us, them) bears witness to the fact that what ever its history, the Gullah language has its own flavor, rules and regulations.
quote: "The survival of African people away from their ancestral home is one of the great acts of human endurance in the history of the world" - John Henrik Clarke
Nearly a half a million Gullah live between Jacksonville, North Carolina and Jacksonville, Florida today. This 500 mile stretch along the Atlantic Ocean and over and between the Rivers that surround it is home to the descendants of the Africans brought to the Carolina Colony beginning in the late 1500s. They live along the interstates and corridors which sometime meander around and touch the borders of Interstate 95 and Highway 17. For nearly five centuries, their lives have been economically and politically tied to this region and the "cash crops" needed for its success whether it be rice or tourism. Places in and around Wilmington, North Carolina, Georgetown and Charleston, South Carolina, Savannah and Jacksonville, Florida figure prominently in the Gullah story from the beginning to now.
Their origin and history began on African soil. During the slave trade, captured Africans, destined for American plantations, were often retained in holding cells along the West African coastlines. This imprisonment brought an unprecedented large number of diferrent Africans together under one roof and formed the basis for the outline and structure of what became and is called Gullah culture. .
By the mid 1700s, these Africans dominated the slave labor force. They became the muscle and mind behind the rice and cotton industries that once lined the waters of the Carolina Slave Coast. Their knowledge of farming, rice, rice cultivation, along with their labor, made the Gullah the most desired and sought after labor of the agricultural South. These Gullah slave farmers made their owners some of the wealthiest businessmen in pre-Civil War America.
It is popular belief that the name Gullah is a distortion of the name Angola, a region that supplied some 40% of the slaves brought to and sold at the Charleston slave market. However, some members of the Gullah community tend to associate the name with the pre American story of the Golas and the Gizzis, two cultural groups living near Liberia during the African slave trade. Members of these groups were also captured and sold in large numbers. Africans from their region along the Windward Coast entered through Charleston and were well represented in the slave population.
In the early days, slaves reserved the name title Gullah for certain members of their communities. The name was not used in the widespread way that it is used today. At that time, it was used more as a handle or prefix as was the case of Golla Jack in the Denmark Vessey Conspiracy of 1822. Until this day, the similarities in the African and American names of these groups, the Golas (Gullah) and the Gizzis (Geechees), could very well be the source of the importance placed on whether one is called Gullah or Geechee today.
The Gullah represent one of the oldest culture groups surviving and living among us today. They are acknowledged for their contributions to the growth, development and success of the Rice and Sea Island cotton industries of the slave period. During the early days of freedom, their underpaid labor contributed to the re-growth and recovery of the region they inhabited. By the the 1940s, the shift from agriculture to tourism made them the dominate labor force in and of the hospitality industry, the chief income in every state wherever they reside in large numbers today.
In the 21st Century, the 500-mile region where the Gullah live is nationally recognized as endangered land right within our midst.
quote: Gullah Food is older than the South and as ancient as the world. It is one of the oldest African and American traditions being practiced in this country today. As it has always been, it is informed by need,availability and environment. The Africans brought to the Carolina colony used the similarities between culinary environments of the low country and the West Coast of Africa to create a food culture that has come to characterize the regions where they live.
One of the biggest ironies is that rice, the grain that had been in African food culture for thousands of years, became the cash crop and reason for the American enslavement of many Gullah people.
For years, the oceans, other bodies of water, and farming practices remained in the backdrop while rice, seafood and vegetables (corn, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, collards, turnips, peanuts, okra, eggplant,beans and peas) brought the connection between both sides of the Atlantic full circle. Slave cooks simply adapted their African cooking traditions to American soil.
Even today, cooking traditions remain somewhat consistent. One pot dishes, deep frying, rice dishes, sea food, boiling and steaming, baking in ashes, basic and natural seasonings, and food types consistent with those received in the weekly rations on plantations are all characteristics of Gullah food.
The food is characterized by the ever presence of rice and a distinct “taste” present wherever Gullah people are cooking. The recipes are simply frames; the art work is created in the taste buds of the preparer. Try to obtain a recipe or cooking directions from Gullah cooks, and you will more than likely get the generic response, “ah ‘on measur.” They will tell you that they cook “cordin’ ta taste.” This taste is passed down from generation to generation, but unlike other ingredients, it is an elusive quality guided by memory and taste buds, almost impossible to explain in words. It is an ingredient that must be experienced. Tasted first, then duplicated each time Gullah food is prepared.
Under the task system used on most rice plantations, each slave was assigned a certain task each day. These tasks included ground breaking, digging trenches, plowing, hoeing, harrowing, threshing and other specific tasks related to rice farming. Unlike gang labor employed on cotton and tobacco plantations, when slaves on rice plantations finished their assigned tasks, they were generally free to tend their own gardens, fish or hunt for wild game. As a consequence, they were often able to enhance and supplement their ration supply with vegetables from their own gardens, natural seasonings, wild game, chicken, eggs and fish. These supplements also include leftovers given to them during hog killings. Feet, ears, entrails, jowls, heads and the like are still favorite meats for celebrations.
Slave cooks simply incorporated the weekly rations given to slave families into the African cooking traditions of their ancestors. A glance at the average food ration given on Brookgreen Plantation in Murrells in the 1800’s reads like a grocery list for a 21st century household.
Simply speaking, Gullah food is about ancestral ties and American living, adaptability, creativity, making do, livin’ ot da waddah and on the lan’. It is a culture within the culture, with its own history, heritage, and distinction. It is a food culture handed down through practice more so than with words It lives among us in the restaurants, homes, kitchens, backyards, family reunions, church anniversaries, birthday parties and other celebrations that dot across the grounds that the Gullah call home.
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The Gullah language, a Creole blend of Elizabethan English and African languages, was born of necessity on Africa's slave coast, and developed in the slave communities of the isolated plantations of the coastal South. Even after the sea islands were freed in 1861, the Gullah speech flourished because access to the islands was by water only until the 1950's. Today, one hears phrases like
Come Jine We. Ketch ob de Day Lok Ya Wantem Shrimps
But, Gullah is more than a language or dialect......... ................it is a culture.
Thousands of enslaved Africans survived the middle passage to reach the sea island shores. The majority of the slaves, 40,000, came from a section of Africa known as Angola. With the people --Mende, Kisi, Malinke, and Bantu-- came the soul of Africa. Their ancestral traditions survived as well. The words "Gullah" and "Geechee" have come to describe that legacy.
Gullah is a language of cadence and accents, words and intonations. The Gullah "shout" is a rhythmic translation of forbidden drums and the oldest of plantation melodies. Old spirituals and songs spoke of storms and other events in the lives of the slaves and were used as codes for meeting times and places and as messages for freedom.
Still standing are the Praise Houses, with a sacred past and present. The culture of the African elders met its people here, combining religious worship, consolation, and hope.
This rich culture flourishes today; in their language, their music, their art, their skills and their foods. Storytellers spin their tales, entwining fun and wisdom. Choirs preserve the haunting songs and the old rhythms. Sweetgrass basket weavers, "long strip" quilters, and fabric artists combine their modern materials and ancestral skills in ancient ways to produce remarkable wares. Chefs create the magic of the old recipes. This is the heritage of a Gullah.
The Gullah Festival is held each May and the Penn Center Heritage Days celebration takes place in November.
www.Gullah.sc is South Carolina's premier web site to learn about Gullah people, language, traditions, and tourism events. Gullah is the language spoken by the Lowcountry's first black inhabitants. The language and culture still thrive today in and around the Lowcountry, especially the areas of Charleston and Beaufort, South Carolina.
In the Low Country there are a number of tours that offer visitors the ability to learn all about the Gullah traditions, authentic arts and crafts, Gullah presentations, music, and to learn more about the Gullah history, and the the rich and varied contributions made by Black Charlestonians.
Gullah : People, Heritage, and Lifestyles
The Gullah are African Americans who live in the Low Country of South Carolina, which includes both the coastal plain and the Sea Islands. Historically, the Gullah region once extended north to the Cape Fear area on the coast of North Carolina and south to the vicinity of Jacksonville on the coast of Florida. Today the Gullah area is confined to the South Carolina and Georgia Low Country. The Gullah people are also called Geechee.
The Gullah are known for preserving their African linguistic and cultural heritage. They speak an English-based creole language containing many African loanwords and significant influences from African languages in grammar and sentence structure. The Gullah language is related to Jamaican Creole, Bahamian Dialect, and the Krio language of Sierra Leone in West Africa. Gullah storytelling, food, music, folk beliefs, crafts, farming and fishing traditions.
"Gullah" and "Geechee"
The name "Gullah" may derive from Angola, a country in southwestern Africa where many of the Gullahs' ancestors originated. Some scholars have also suggested it comes from Gola, an ethnic group living on the border area between Sierra Leone and Liberia in West Africa. The name "Geechee" may come from Kissi (pronounced "Geezee"), a tribe living in the border area between Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia.
African Roots
Most of the Gullahs' ancestors were brought to the South Carolina through the port of Charleston. Charleston was the most important port in North America for the Atlantic slave trade, and almost half of the enslaved Africans brought into what is now the United States came through the port of Charleston.
The largest group of Africans brought into Charleston and Savannah came from the West African rice-growing region that stretches from what are now Senegal, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, and Liberia. South Carolina and Georgia rice planters once called this region the "Rice Coast". The second-largest group of Africans brought through Charleston came from Angola in Southern Africa, but smaller numbers also came from the Gold Coast (modern Ghana) and the West Indies.
Origin of Gullah Culture
The Gullah have been able to preserve so much of their African cultural heritage because of geography and climate. By the mid-1700s, the South Carolina Low Country was covered by thousands of acres of rice fields; and African farmers from the "Rice Coast" brought the skills that made rice one of the most successful industries in early America. But the semi-tropical climate that made the Low Country such an excellent place for rice production, also made it vulnerable to the spread of malaria and yellow fever. These tropical diseases were carried by mosquitoes brought aboard the slave ships from Africa. Mosquitoes bred in the swamps and inundated rice fields of the Low Country, and malaria and yellow fever soon became endemic.
Africans more resistant to tropical fevers than the European slave owners. More Africans were brought into the Low Country as the rice industry expanded, and by about 1708 South Carolina had a black majority. Fearing disease, many white planters left the Low Country during the rainy spring and summer months when fever ran rampant, leaving their overseers in charge of the plantations. Having much less contact with white colonists than slaves in white majority colonies, the Gullahs were able to preserve their African language, culture, and community life.
Gullah customs and traditions African influences are found in every aspect of the Gullahs' traditional way of life:
•Gullah word "Guber" for peanut derives straight from Kongo(Congo) word "N'guba" •Gullah rice dishes called "red rice" and "okra soup" are similar to West African "jollof rice" and "okra soup". Jollof rice is a style of cooking brought by the Wolof and Mandé peoples of West Africa. •The Gullah version of "gumbo" has its roots in African cooking. "Gumbo" is derived from a word in the Umbundu language of Angola, meaning "okra." •Gullah rice farmers once used the mortar and pestle and "fanner" (winnowing basket) similar to tools used by West African rice farmers. •Gullah beliefs about "hags", "haunts" and "plat-eyes" are similar to African beliefs about malevolent ancestors, witches, and "devils" (forest spirits). •Gullah "root doctors" protect their clients against dangerous spiritual forces using similar ritual objects to those employed by African medicine men. •Gullah herbal medicines are similar to traditional African remedies. •The Gullah "seekin" ritual is similar to coming of age ceremonies in West African secret societies like Poro and Sande. •Gullah stories about "Bruh Rabbit" are similar to West and Central African trickster tales about the clever and conniving rabbit, spider, and tortoise. •Gullah spirituals, shouts, and other musical forms employ the "call and response" method commonly used in African music. •Gullah "sweetgrass baskets" are almost identical to coil baskets made by the Wolof people in Senegal. •Gullah "strip quilts" mimic the design of cloth woven with the traditional strip loom used throughout West Africa. The famous kente cloth from Ghana is woven on the strip loom. •The folk song Michael Row the Boat Ashore (or Michael Row Your Boat Ashore) comes from the Gullah culture.
Gullah People and the Civil War period
When the Civil War began, the Union rushed to blockade the Confederate shipping. Many White planters on the Sea Islands, fearing an invasion by the US naval forces, abandoned their plantations and fled to the mainland. When Union forces arrived on the Sea Islands in 1861, they found the Gullah people eager for their freedom, and eager as well to defend it. Many Gullahs served with distinction in the Union Army's First South Carolina Volunteers. The Sea Islands were the first place in the South where slaves were freed. Long before the War ended, Quaker missionaries from Pennsylvania came down to start schools for the newly freed slaves. Penn Center, now a Gullah community organization on Saint Helena Island, South Carolina, began as the very first school for freed slaves.
After the Civil War, the Gullahs' isolation from the outside world increased in some respects. The rice planters on the mainland gradually abandoned their plantations and moved away. A series of hurricanes devastated the crops in the 1890s. Left alone in remote rural areas in the Low Country, the Gullahs continued to practice their traditional culture with little influence from the outside world well into the 20th Century.
Gullah People and Modern times
In recent years the Gullah people have been fighting to keep control of their traditional lands. Since the 1960s, resort development on the Sea Islands has threatened to push Gullahs off family lands they have lived on since for generations.
The Gullahs have also struggled to preserve their traditional culture. In 2005, the Gullah community unveiled a translation of the New Testament in the Gullah language, a project that took more than 20 years to complete. The Gullahs achieved another victory in 2006 when the U.S. Congress passed the "Gullah/Geechee Cultural Heritage Corridor Act" that provides $10 million over ten years for the preservation and interpretation of historic sites relating to Gullah culture. The "heritage corridor" will extend from southern North Carolina to northern Florida. The project will be administered by the US National Park Service with strong input from the Gullah community.
Gullahs have also reached out to West Africa.
Gullah groups made three celebrated "homecomings" to Sierra Leone in 1989, 1997, and 2005. Sierra Leone is at the heart of the traditional rice-growing region of West Africa where many of the Gullahs' ancestors originated. Bunce Island, the British slave castle in Sierra Leone, sent many African captives to Charleston and Savannah during the mid- and late 1700s. These dramatic homecomings were the subject of three documentary films -- "Family Across the Sea" (1990), "The Language You Cry In" (1998), and "Priscilla's Homecoming" (in production).
Over the years, the Gullahs have attracted many historians, linguists, folklorists, and anthropologists interested in their rich cultural heritage. Many academic books on that subject have been published. The Gullah have also become a symbol of cultural pride for blacks throughout the United States and a subject of general interest in the media. This has given rise to countless newspaper and magazine articles, documentary films, and children's books on Gullah culture and to a number of popular novels set in the Gullah region.
Cultural survival
The media typically portray the Gullah people as living only on the Sea Islands, but Gullahs have always lived through out in the Low Country. The media also portray Gullah culture as being "near extinction" because of resort development on the islands. Many Sea Island communities are, indeed, under serious threat, but there are islands that have never been subjected to tourism development where the Gullah way of life is very much intact. Most Gullah people live in coastal areas where resort development is not an issue and where their culture also still thrives today.
Far from being near extinction, Gullah culture has proven to be particularly resilient. Gullah traditions are still strong in urban areas of the Low Country, like Charleston. Many Gullahs migrated to New York starting at the beginning of the 20th century, and these urban migrants have not lost their identity. Gullahs have their own neighborhood churches and sometimes send their children back to rural communities in South Carolina during the summer months to be reared by grandparents, uncles and aunts. Gullah people living in New York also frequently return to the low country to retire.
Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
htp
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
African Americans are related to the Ancient Egyptians by way of migrations of Africans from the Nile valley, the slave trade which served to combine these various groups, who were already pretty much combined, and who became African-Americans. The lineage is historical and has nothing to do with the fact that the Ancient Egyptians and African Americans are Blacks.Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
htp [/QUOTE]
The word is spelled 'Goober' not "guber." What you wrote above is not Creole but an American southern accent/dialect.
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quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
I'll entertain you this one last time w/ this response (and the information to follow that I will be posting):
As someone who has a good friend whose grandparents are Gullah; and as one who has interacted not infrequently with ones who are Gullah, I know what I am talking about.
htp.
Sorry you don't know what you are talking about. There is no Gullah culture or language in the U.S. There is no Gullah culture outside of the general African-American population. There is nothing different or unique in the Gullah culture that you can't find in the general African-American populations. I already told you Gullah people speak American English.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: Unfortunately for yourSelf, you don't know what the f**k you are talking about here....
However, have a nice day!
htp
Unfortunately YOU don't know what the fvck you are talking about. Gullah doesn't have a language of their own and they have no culture that can't be found in the general African-American population.
I'll entertain you this one last time w/ this response (and the information to follow that I will be posting):
As someone who has a good friend whose grandparents are Gullah; and as one who has interacted not infrequently with ones who are Gullah, I know what I am talking about.
htp.
Sorry you don't know what you are talking about. There is no Gullah culture or language in the U.S. There is no Gullah culture outside of the general African-American population. There is nothing different or unique in the Gullah culture that you can't find in the general African-American populations. I already told you Gullah people speak American English.
I pity your lack of reading comprehension....the FACTUAL INFORMATION I posted (since my personal observation and interaction wasn't good enough FACT for you) from various sources surely begs to differ from your OPINION.
Have a lovely day...ignorance is bliss, so I'm sure your day will be outstanding!
htp
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote: Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
Actually, I am Jamaican-American...and that is far from Southern American dialect, lolololol...nor is it Gullah, but Jamaican patois....I actually should have typed it as: "Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina cawna an' fold up unda yuhself n suck out yuh renk cratches wha leakin like bruk freeza."
Again, have a lovely day; I'm sure it will be an outstanding one for you
You're now dismissed.
htp
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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Please take your petty and pointless bulls**t to another topic or forum; You will NOT derail this one!
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: @ Bettyboo-
btw...
quote: Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina corner and fold up.
Actually, I am Jamaican-American...and that is far from Southern American dialect, lolololol...nor is it Gullah, but Jamaican patois....I actually should have typed it as: "Ms. BettyBoo, now yuh can guh siddung ina cawna an' fold up unda yuhself n suck out yuh renk cratches wha leakin like bruk freeza."
Again, have a lovely day; I'm sure it will be an outstanding one for you
You're now dismissed.
htp
You keep speaking English with a dialect. What you wrote above is not a different language from English but an accent and a dialect you stupid fvck. I already told you that the Gullah people don't have a language or culture to call their own. There is nothing outside of the Gullah culture or so-called "language" that can't be found in the general African-American population.
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: TruthAndRights and Bettyboo
Please take your petty and pointless bulls**t to another topic or forum; You will NOT derail this one!
It was not my intent to derail this thread- so I will apologize, on my part, for the diversion. However: 1) the Gullah issue was brought up in THIS thread, so I addressed it where it was- HERE; and 2) the speaking of Truth and the correction of UN-Truth is never petty nor pointless- much less bullshit; much less correcting her on something she clearly knows not a real thing about; denying that a people's culture exists is like denial of the existence of a people; something I couldn't ignore- her failure to overstand after I showed her the Truth, I can ignore (I've been finished with this topic since my last response to her).
At any rate, I extend my apologies...and I will accept yours for the way you came off (towards me, at least).
Have a nice day/weekend.
htp
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North Africa - Any area north of the center point in Africa
East Africa - Any area east of the center point in Africa -------------------------------
It took you how many days to scribble this Eurocentric pathetic response herpes Boy, what kept you The Grey Puppon???
Lets see if Argyle payed attention in Geography....
DEFINE THE CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS NORTH OF THE THIS SO CALLED CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS EAST OF THIS CENTER POINT IN AFRICA!!
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Folks this Argyle Character has been intellectually trashed, notice how long it took for him to Define West Africa etc. He is a European Yellow tooth mongrel, a Irish/English breed patty...
the Half Irish Mongrel was went home crying or should we say "Caturwalling" to his "MUM"
CAN YOU PLEASE PASS THE GREY PUPPON!!
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
argyle104 ------------------ we are awaiting your response...
Do yo see this folks, this European mongrel has taken almost a month to come up with a complete answer. Are the European schools that bad, are they failing this Mongrel..??? ------------------
Agyle104 what is the hold up..??? Mindovermatter still hasyou scared??? You scared Boy....!!!!
Argyle has still yet to define ---------------- DEFINE THE CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS NORTH OF THE THIS SO CALLED CENTER POINT IN AFRICA
DEFINE WHAT IS EAST OF THIS CENTER POINT IN AFRICA!!
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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I'll entertain you this one last time w/ this response (and the information to follow that I will be posting):![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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