Like I said the dividing line between "dark-skinned" and almost but "not dark skinned" is not clear at all. The dividing point between "black" and "white" is whatever given person decides it to be. Are there more terms that refer specifically to color that people could be categorized into? Again the answer to this question is not clear at all. Now supposedly, assuming that the dictionary.com represents truth:
"esp. those of Africa, Oceania, and Australia"
The definition is quite clear. You're right that there is no straightforward dividing line as skin color grades
Djehuti: you contradict yourself, here with obvious doublespeak. You say the issue is quite clear (straightforward) then in the next sentence you say it is not straightforward (unclear). You have been exposed.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
however any moron knows the difference between a black person and white person and of course those in between would be labeled as 'brown'.
does this mean that the following man is not black:
or is he still black because they said "esp." (especially) but not exclusively?
Of course he's black! His skin complexion is no different from most equatorial Africans. Stop the nonsense.
obviously you have a problem interpreting colors. The man's hair black his skin is a shade of brown. Notice the difference. Well what would a lighter shade of black be? It would be gray, still not black. But for the sake of argument let's go along with this corruption of language and say that this man is "black" like his hair and that equatorial Africans are also "black". Therefore many non-equatorial Africans including the people of ancient Egypt which is among the least equatorial regions in Africa, according to your own definition are not black. I ask you will you now follow your own instructions and stop calling brown people "black"?
You've been outed my mellow. Your only recourse now is to not address this and start attacking lioness like a flea
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass-dummy: Djehuti: you contradict yourself, here with obvious doublespeak. You say the issue is quite clear (straightforward) then in the next sentence you say it is not straightforward (unclear). You have been exposed.
And exactly where did I contradict myself?! I said the definition of black is quite clear! I also said there is no dividing ling between black and white i.e. people are not just black or white only! LOL Again you resort to distorting my words in a desperate attempt to prove your nonsensical notion that can never hold up!
quote:obviously you have a problem interpreting colors. The man's hair black his skin is a shade of brown. Notice the difference. Well what would a lighter shade of black be? It would be gray, still not black. But for the sake of argument let's go along with this corruption of language and say that this man is "black" like his hair and that equatorial Africans are also "black". Therefore many non-equatorial Africans including the people of ancient Egypt which is among the least equatorial regions in Africa, according to your own definition are not black. I ask you will you now follow your own instructions and stop calling brown people "black"?
More strawman sh|t! First of all, NO human being is the actual color or shade of 'black' in skin. Black is a label used to describe very dark complexions or those that approach that color. Even the darkest skin equatorial Africans are not the actual color black. Second, the definition of black didn't say anything about the equator you nitwit! And last, most Africans who don't live around the equator are still considered black. The man in the picture is Indian and last time I checked while India may not be on the equator it is still in the tropics and on the same latitudes as Sudan or Nigeria, stupid! Of course the Egyptians are hundreds of miles from the equator but so are the Nubians whom YOU label as 'black' even though they live only a few miles from Egypt!
quote:You've been outed my mellow. Your only recourse now is to not address this and start attacking lioness like a flea
ROTFLMAO The only one outed is YOU as the idiot you usually are! YOU are the one guilty of double speaking, not I! Tell me why do you consider a Nigerian person black but not an Indian who is of the same exact complexion, or even an Egyptian who is both of the same complexion AND is a fellow African??!
Of course your only recourse is to ignore this reply OR spin my words into even more stupidly ridiculous nonsense. Your call. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: in between would be labeled as 'brown'.
A girl from the Neur, an African tribe (Malakal, Southern Sudan)
are these people "brown" or "black" ?
your methodology is completely arbitrary in applying these terms. It 's particularly arbitrary when used to discuss information in scientific journals.
All you're doing is kissing up to your audience. If you think your audience wants to hear given person called "black" and other given person called "white" or "brown" you tell them what they want to hear (although you never ever actually apply this term "brown person" and use "white" infrequently
So when calling people "black" or white" your audience aren't going to ask any questions about what these words specifically mean or don't mean mean if who they are being applied appeals to their emotions.
But when looking at statistics, measurements and graphs all of the sudden this vague approach is unacceptable. Then we go over all the numbers with a fine tooth comb, do the math and attempt to use precision.
What a charade.
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I know about the period when when most of the white people were enslaved, but the period when most of the white people were enslaved was also a period when most people enslaved by the Arabs were not white.
Is this Arab history by a Lyin_snake or what?
How is one supposed to answer wishful thinking. I guess only God knows.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: [QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
sometimes but usually they indicate a difference. As jari said:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: OT: Egyptians and Art: Does the Dark Brown only occur in the Armana » Post A Reply
We have to remember that Egypt was a Nation of many tribes united under one flag, so not one Phenotype was present..We have Dark, Light, and in between in Egypt.
Hmmmm..."many tribes united under one flag" - that's a new one. I wonder why we have to remember this when Egyptologists say otherwise. We have "dark light and in between" in Germany and Sweden as well now don't we - Snaky.
Mulatto dreaming again. Snap out of it, Snaky - your starting to talk in your sleep. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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your methodology is completely arbitrary in applying these terms. It 's particularly arbitrary when used to discuss information in scientific journals.
All you're doing is kissing up to your audience. If you think your audience wants to hear given person called "black" and other given person called "white" or "brown" you tell them what they want to hear (although you never ever actually apply this term "brown person" and use "white" infrequently
So when calling people "black" or white" your audience aren't going to ask any questions about what these words specifically mean or don't mean mean if who they are being applied appeals to their emotions.
But when looking at statistics, measurements and graphs all of the sudden this vague approach is unacceptable. Then we go over all the numbers with a fine tooth comb, do the math and attempt to use precision.
What a charade.
Like I 've said before Snaky - you've been living in Sweden to long. We all know in Germany and other parts of very blond Europe such people as Iranians and Turks are called black.
But that should not be confused with how most people that are on this forum use the terms.
You should have said which ones would have been most likely to be called "Abid" today by modern North Africans and Middle Easterners. Then you would have had a question that could have been answered.
Nice try but not a very smart one. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [qb] jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
White Washing what history, you do realize that in the beginning of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe
yes I realize this and I also realize that the import of black slaves from Africa was much larger in number in any period of Islamic history. The numbers of white vs. black slaves is irrelevant anyway. If you were to listen to awlaadberry he would tell you there were no black slaves taken in earlier preiods from the Rashidun to the Abbasid and also prior to Muhammad. The picture I posted earlier is a slave market in Yemen in the 13th century. The account of the conquest of Egypt which I just mentioned including it's tributaries paid in slaves and other goods and a disrespect for Egyptian culture.
Keep saying it - your Snakiness - and maybe it will come true - in that delusional head of yours. The slave you posted for all we know is a Yemenite silly! And the Turko-Persian features of the slavers are more than obvious. Which style of Eurasian art was that again - Seljuk or what? Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [qb] jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
White Washing what history, you do realize that in the beginning of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe
yes I realize this and I also realize that the import of black slaves from Africa was much larger in number in any period of Islamic history. The numbers of white vs. black slaves is irrelevant anyway. If you were to listen to awlaadberry he would tell you there were no black slaves taken in earlier preiods from the Rashidun to the Abbasid and also prior to Muhammad. The picture I posted earlier is a slave market in Yemen in the 13th century. The account of the conquest of Egypt which I just mentioned including it's tributaries paid in slaves and other goods and a disrespect for Egyptian culture.
Lioness I understand what you are saying, but if you notice I don't usually post pics like this:
or like the Slave market scene, why because I was working in a Library last semeseter and I had access to a lot of books. Anyway, I came upon a book on Islamic art and it had Images of the Arabs fighting "Ethiopians" and the Ethiopian Army was stark white(Ill try to upload some images to show you what I mean.), some of that art is not reliable just like the Orientalist paintings. Im not saying slaves were not imported from Ethiopia and East Africa, nor do I think Alwaad is denying this. However Alwaad is right that white slaves were used more until the Ottoman Turks gained power and banned the sale of White Slaves. Does this justify the enslavement of Africans, no.
Jari make sure you upload these photos on a new post. People like Snakiness need to know that these Central Asian people (such as the above) during this period often depicted Arabs, Moors, Ethiopians and everyone else the same way.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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LOL I think snaky knows the girl above is not black and therefore does NOT represent indigenous Arabians let alone Africans like the Egyptians.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I am an Arab of Turkish descent so I suppose I am a "white" Arab. I am also a classic Islamic scholar. The Prophet Mohammed was BLACK. All the early Islamic literature described him and his family as Black. Remember, at that time there was no prejudice against being Black, and people who are called "white" today were actually looked down upon and were the slaves. Read the following:
In his work, Islam’s Black Legacy: Some Leading Figures (1993), Mohammed Abu-Bakr includes among 62 leading Black figures of Islam the prophet Muhammad himself.1 Abu-Bakr rightly notes: "According to Muslim tradition, Muhammad descended in a straight line from Ishmael’s second son Kedar (Arabic: Qaidar), whose name in Hebrew signifies ‘black’…From the sons of Kedar inhabiting the northern Arabian desert, sprang the noblest tribe in Arabia, the Koreish (Quraysh), the tribe from which Muhammad descended."2
As we have also discussed above, the Arabian Qedar were a black tribe akin to the equally black Nabataeans, and these two were in someway related to the Quraysh, the black tribe par excellence of Mecca. As Robert F. Spencer remarks: “It is said that the Quraysh explained their short stature and dark skin by the fact that they always carefully adhered to endogamy.”3 Al-Jahiz (d. 869), the important Afro-Iraqi scholar of ninth century Baghdad, noted in his Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, “The Boast of the Blacks over the Whites”:
The ten lordly sons of Abd al-Muããalib were deep black (dalham) in color and big/tall (Dukhm). When Amir b. al-Tufayl saw them circumambulating (the Ka'ba) like dark camels, he said, “With such men as these is the custody of the Ka'ba preserved.” Abd Allah b. Abbas was very black and tall. Those of Abå Talib’s family, who are the most noble of men, are more or less black (såd).”4
This report is important for our discussion, not only because Abd al-Muããalib and his ten black sons were pure Arabs, but also because they are also the family of the Prophet, Abd al-Muããalib being his paternal grandfather.5 The Syrian scholar and historian al-Dhahabi (d. 1348) too reported that Abd Allah b. Abbas, Muhammad’s first cousin, and his son, Ali b. Abd Allah, were “very dark-skinned.”6 Ali b. Abu Talib, first cousin of the Prophet and future fourth caliph, is described by al-Suyuti and others as “husky, bald…pot-bellied, large-bearded…and jet-black (shadid al-udma).”7 Ali’s son, Abå Jafar Muhammad, according to Ibn Sad (d. 845), described Ali thusly: “He was a black-skinned man with big, heavy eyes, pot-bellied, bald, and kind of short.”8
This convergence of blackness, nobility and Qurayshi ethnicity is further demonstrated in these lines attributed to the seventh century CE Qurayshi poet, al-Fadil b. al-Abbas, called al-Akhdar al-LahabÊ “The Flaming Black”. al-Fadil is the Prophet Muhammad’s first cousin and he said: “I am the blackskinned one (al-Akhdar). I am well-known. My complexion is black. I am from the noble house of the Arabs.”9 Ibn Maníår (d. 1311) notes the opinion that al-Akh·ar here means aswad al-jilda, ‘Blackskinned’, and signifies that al-Fadil is from khaliß al-arab, the pure Arabs, “because the color of most of the Arabs is dark (al-udma).”10 Similarly Ibn BarrÊ (d. 1193) said also: “He (al-Fadil) means by this that his genealogy is pure and that he is a pure Arab (arabÊ mahd) because Arabs describe their color as black (al-aswad).”11 Thus, al-Fadil’s blackness (akhdar) is the visual mark of his pure, Qurayshi background, being born of a pure Arab mother and father. The Quraysh consisted of several sub-clans. Abd al-Muããalib and his descendents, including Muhammad, belonged to the Banå Hashim. Henry Lammens takes notice of “les Hasimites, famille où dominait le sang nègre” (“the Hashimites, the family where Black blood dominated”).12 Lammens remarks that they are “généralement qualifies de ??? = couleur foncée” (“generally described as adam = dark colored”). But the Banå Hashim were not the only sub-clans noted for their blackness. The Banå Zuhra, the tribe from which the prophet’s mother, Amia bt. Wahb, hailed, was likewise noted for its blackness. See for example the famous Saad ibn Abi Waqqas (d.ca. 646), cousin of Amia and uncle of Muhammad. He is described as very dark, tall and flat-nosed.13 Muhammad, it should be noted, was quite proud of his uncle Saad whose military contributions we shall discuss below. We are told that once Muhammad was sitting with some of his companions and Saad walked by. The prophet stopped and taunted: “That’s my uncle. Let any man show me his uncle.”14 This blackness of the Quraysh tribe is not insignificant to the religious history of Islam. The Quraysh were the custodians of the cult of the Ka'ba in pre-Qur?anic Mecca and at religious ceremonies they would declare naÈnu ahlu ÏÏahi (“We are the People of AÏÏah”) and throughout Arabia they were known as ahlu ÏÏah, the People of AÏÏah.15 In other words, the black tribe par excellence was also the AÏÏah-tribe par excellence and custodians of the cult of the Black God. Nevertheless, or rather as a consequence, Muhammad’s greatest struggle was with his own kinsmen, this black, AÏÏah-venerating Quraysh tribe. In the end, however, it would be the black Quraysh that became the rulers of Islam, at least in the short term. Not only were the Sunni caliphs drawn from them, but the Shiite Imams, descendents of the black Ali b. Abå Talib, were likewise black QurayshÊ Arabs.16 One would thus expect the Qurayshi prophet Muhammad to be black too, especially since he reportedly claimed to be a pure Arab for the house of Hashim17: this would make him very black-skinned like the pure Arabs from that tribe. Muhammad’s pedigree actually demands this as his whole immediate family tree were pure, black-skinned Qurayshi Arabs. I quote again Al-JaÈií’s important note in his Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan:
The ten lordly sons of Abd al Muããalib were deep black (dalham) in color and big/tall (dukhm). When Amir b. al-Tufayl saw them circumambulating (the Ka'ba) like dark camels, he said, “With such men as these is the custody of the Ka'ba preserved.” Abd Allah b. Abbas was very black and tall. Those of Abå Talib’s family, who are the most noble of men, are more or less black (såd).”18 Abd al Muããalib (d. 578) was the prophet’s grandfather and Abd Allah, one of his ten ‘deep black’ sons, was Muhammad’s father. Another deep black son, al-Abbas, was father to the above mentioned Abd Allah b. Abbas, described as black, and al-Fa·l b. al-Abbas, whose blackness was legendary. These were the uncle and first cousins of Muhammad. Abå Talib, another deep black uncle, was father to Ali b. Abd Allah, another first cousin of the prophet who was described as jet-black. All of these father-son pairs shared this deep blackness, what about the Abd Allah - Muhammad pair? We would expect the same, unless Muhammad’s mother made a mitigating contribution. But this is not likely. Amina, the prophet’s mother, was an Arab from the Qurayshi sub-clan Banå Zuhra, which was a black clan. Amina’s cousin and Muhammad’s maternal uncle, Saad ibn Abi Waqqas, also from Banå Zuhra, was very dark, tall and flat-nosed.19
But Muhammad had more than just Qurayshi blackness running through his veins. His great, great grandfather was Abd Manaf who bore with $tika bt. Murra al-SulaymÊ the prophet’s great grandfather \ashim. That is to say that the prophet’s great, great grandmother was from the jet-black Banå Sulaym. \ashim, the great grandfather, bore with Salma bt. Amrå ’l-KhazrajÊ the prophet’s grandfather, Abd al Muããalib. This means that his paternal great grandmother was from the black Medinese tribe Banå Khazraj. Abd al Muããalib stayed within the Quraysh, but he bore the prophet’s father Abd Allah with Faãima bt. Amrå al-MakhzåmÊ, from the exceptionally black Makhzåm clan.20 Muhammad’s maternal lineage is also mixed with non-QurayshÊ black Arab blood. His mother, Amina, is the daughter of Wahb b. Abd Manaf b. Zuhra whose mother (Amina’s grandmother) is said to be a SulaymÊ, another $tika bt. Al-Awqaß.21 The black Sulaym are thus considered the maternal uncles of the prophet and he is therefore reported to have said: “I am the son of the many $tikas of Sulaym.”22 This all indicates that Muhammad’s lineage is a mix of QurayshÊ, SulaymÊ, and KhazrajÊ blackness.
We thus have every reason to expect Muhammad to be black-skinned, and no reason to believe anything else was possible. We in fact find him described as such in TirmidhÊ’s Shama?il al- Muhammadiyyah. The following is reported on the authority of the famous Companion of the prophet, Anas b. Malik:
The Messenger of Allah… was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, of a goodly build. His hair was neither curly nor completely straight. He had a dark brown (asmar) complexion and when he walked he leant forward [walking briskly].23
???? asmar is a dark brown as evidenced from other formations from the same root24: samar “darkness, night”; al-garra al-samra? “the black continent (Africa)”.25 With the pedigree that he had, any other complexion for Muhammad would be incomprehensible. Yet, the same Anas b. Malik who informed us of the dark brown complexion of the prophet, also informs us thusly: While we were sitting with the Prophet in the mosque, a man came riding on a camel. He made his camel kneel down in the mosque, tied its foreleg and then said: “Who amongst you is Muhammad?” At that time the Prophet was sitting amongst us (his companions) leaning on his arm. We replied, “This white man reclining on his arm.”26
There are several other reports that describe Muhammad as ???? abya· white. How can the same man (Anas b. Malik) describe another (Muhammad) as both of dark brown complexion and as white? The problem, it turns out, is not in these texts but in our modern, Western inability to appreciate the premodern Arabic color classification system. We assume that terms such as white, green, blue, and red meant the same to the early Arabs that they do to us today. But as Moroccan scholar Tariq Berry explains in his book, The Unknown Arabs, this is simply not the case: The term white can be very confusing to those reading about the description of people of the past because, in the past, when Arabs described someone as white, they meant something entirely different from what is meant today. In the past, when the Arabs described someone as white, they meant either that he had a pure, noble, essence or that he had a nice, smooth complexion without any blemishes. They meant he had a black complexion with a light-brownish undertone.27 Berry’s point is confirmed by the appropriate Classical Arabic/Islamic sources. Ibn Maníår affirmed that “When the Arabs say that a person is white, they mean that he has a pure, clean, fautless integrity…They don’t mean that he has white skin…”28 Similarly, al-Dhahabi informs us that “When the Arabs say a person is white, they mean he is black with a light-brownish undertone.”29 Particularly important was the observation of the 9th century CE Arabic scholar Thalab, who tells us that : “The Arabs don’t say that a man is white because of a white complexion. White to the Arabs means that a person is pure, without any faults. If they meant his complexion was white, they said ‘red’ (aÈmar).”30 Indeed, as David Goldenberg notes, ‘white ???? ’ in pre-modern Arabic was about “luminosity, not chromaticity.”31 That is to say, ???? connoted brilliance, not paleness of skin. The latter was described as ‘red’ ? ??? aÈmar, which is how non- Arab whites such as Persians and Byzantines were described.32 In other words, what we call white today the early Arabs called red, and what they called white often was what we would today call black! It is certain that Muhammad could not have been what we consider white today; he could not have been fair or pale-skinned at all, for a pale-skinned Arab was such an oddity that the prophet could not have claimed be a pure QurayshÊ Arab. The seventh century Arab from the tribe of Nakha?i, Shurayk al- Qa·i, could claim that, because it was such a rare occurrence “a fair-skinned Arab is something inconceivable and unthinkable.”33 So too did al-Dhahabi report that: “Red, in the language of the people from the Hijaz, means fair-complexioned and this color is rare amongst the Arabs.”34 On the other hand, the Arabs prided themselves on being black, is conscious contrast to the pale-skinned non-Arabs. Al-JaÈií could still claim in the 9th century: ????? ???? ????? ????? al-arab tafkhar bi-sawad al-lawn “The Arabs pride themselves in (their) black color”35
These noble Black Arabs even detested pale skin. Al-Mubarrad (d. 898), the leading figure in the Basran grammatical tradition, is quoted as saying: “The Arabs used to take pride in their darkness and blackness and they had a distaste for a light complexion and they used to say that a light complexion was the complexion of the non-Arabs”. Part of the reason for this distaste is that the slaves at the time were largely from pale-skinned peoples, such that aÈmar “red” came to mean “slave” back then, just as abid “servant/slave” means black today in the now white Muslim world. As Dana Marniche observes: Anyone familiar with the Arabic writings of the Syrian, Iraqi and Iranian historians up until the 14th century knows that this is also their description of the early ‘pure’ Arab clans of the Arabian peninsula… [i.e. “blacker than the blackest ink – no shred of white on them except their teeth.”]…The irony of history is that early Arabic-speaking historians and linguists made a distinction between the Arabs in Arabia and the fair-skinned peoples to the north; and contrary to what may be fact in our day, in the days of early Islam, those called ‘Arabs’ looked down condescendingly on fair-skinned populations and commonly used the phrase ‘fairskinned as a slave’ when describing individuals in tribes in the peninsula that were pale in complexion…Of course, today due mainly to slavery and conversion of peoples to the ‘Arab’ nationality, the opposite is thought to be true by many in the West.
A red or pale-skinned Muhammad would thus have been a profound oddity in 7th century Arabia and would have had little chance of success amongst the proud, black Meccans and Medinese. The Meccan objectors to his message accused of some of everything, but never of being a non-Arab! There is absolutely no reason to believe he was pale-skinned other than much later representations that coincide with a major demographic change it the Muslim world, a change that brought with it a strong anti-black ideology.36 We thus have every reason to accept the truth of Anas b. Malik’s description of the prophet as dark brown (asmar) and to conclude that, as his black cousins Ali and al-Fa·l resembled their black fathers (his black uncles), he resembled his black father, especially since his mother’s side was black as well.37
FOOTNOTES 1 Abu-Bakr, Islam’s Black Legacy, Chapter 1. See also Rogers, Sex and Race, I: 95 who states that “Mohamet, himself, was to all accounts a Negro.” Ben-Jochannon too accepted that Muhammad was “in the family of the Black Race”. African Origins, 237. 2 Abu-Bakr, Islam’s Black Legacy, 1. 3 Robert F. Spencer, “The Arabian Matriarchate: An Old Controversy,” Southwestern Journal of Anthropology 8 (Winter, 1952) 488. 4 Al-JaÈií, Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, in Risa"il Al-JaÈií, 4 vols. (1964/1384) I:209. 5 See below. 6 al-Dhahabi, Siyar, V:253 7 Al-Suyåãi, Tarikh al-khulafa (Cairo: Dar al-Fikr al-Arabi, 1975) 186. On shadid al-udma as ‘jet-black’ see Berry, Unknown, 54. 8 Ibn Sad, al-Tabaqat al-kubra (Beirut: Dar Sadir) 8:25. On Ali as short and dark brown see Henry Stubbe, An Account of the Rise and Progress of Muhammadanism (1911) XX; I.M.N. al-Jubouri, History of Islamic Philosophy – With View of Greek Philosophy and Early History of Islam (2004), 155; Philip K Hitti, History of the Arabs, 10th edition (London: Macmillan Education Ltd, 1970) 183. 9 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-arab, s.v. ???? IV:245f. 10 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-arab, s.v. ???? IV:245; E.W. Lane, Arabic-English, I: 756 s.v. . ??? 11 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-arab, s.v. ???? IV:245. 12 Études sur le siècle des Omayyades (Beirut: Imprimerie Calholique, 1930) 44. 13 al-Dhahabi, Siyar, 1:97. 14 Abd al-RaÈman Rafat al-Basha, ‘uwar min Èayat al-‘aÈabah (Beirut: Mu?assasat al-Risalah, 1974-75) 287. 15 Uri Rubin, “The Ilaf of Quraysh: A Study of såra CVI,” Arabica 31 (1984): 165-188; Margoliouth, Mohammed, 19. 16 Berry, Unknown Arabs, 62-65. 17 He is supposed to have described himself as “Arab of the Arabs, of the purest blood of your land, of the family of the Hashim and of the tribe of Quraysh.”Quoted in Chandler, “Ebony and Bronze,” 285. 18 Al-JaÈií, Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, in Risa"il Al-JaÈií, 4 vols. (1964/1384) I:209. 19 al-Dhahabi, Siyar, 1:97. 20 On the significance of these matrilateral listings in Muhammad’s genealogy see Daniel Martin Varisco, “Metaphors and Sacred History: The Genealogy of Muhammad and the Arab ‘Tribe’,” Anthropological Quarterly 68 (1995): 139-156, esp. 148-150. 21 Ibn Athir, al-Nihaya fÊ gharÊb al-ÈadÊth (Cairo, 1385/1965) III:180 s.v. -t-k; Lecker, Banå sulaym, 114. 22 Muhammad b. Yåsuf al-‘aliÈÊ al-ShamÊ, Subul al-huda wa-‘l-rashad fÊ sÊrat khayr al-bad (Cairo, 1392/1972) I:384-85; Lecker, Banå sulaym, 114-115. 23 Al-TirmidhÊ, Shama?il al-Muhammadiyyah, 2. 24 J M. Cowan (ed.), Hans Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary 4th edition (Ithica: Spoken Language Services, Inc., 1994) 500 s.v. .??? 25 Berry, Unknown Arabs, 49 notes: “When the Arabs of the past said that a person was brown, they meant that he was dark-skinned; close to black, which is actually a dark shade of brown.” 26 Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 1 no. 63: 27 Berry, Unknown Arabs, 49. 28 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-Arab 7:124. 29 Al-Dhahabi, Siyar alam al-nubala (Beirut: Risala Establishment, 1992) 2:168. 30 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-Arab. 4:210. 31 Goldenberg, Curse of Ham, 93. 32 Goldziher, Muslim Studies, 1:268. 33 Ibn Abd Rabbih, al-Iqd al-farid (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiya, 1983) 8:140. 34 Al-Dhahabi, Siyar, 2:168. 35 Al-JaÈií, Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, 207. See also Goldziher, Muslim Studies, 1:268 who notes that in contrast to the Persians who are described as red or light-skinned (aÈmar) the Arabs call themselves black. 36 See below. 37 Chandler, “Ebony and Bronze,” 280: “All of the chronicles that survive intact agree that Ismael and Muhammad were of the Black Race…A careful examination of history reveals that the Prophet Muhammad…was of the Black Race and was black in complexion.”
Posts: 2 | From: Yemen | Registered: May 2011
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posted
I am an Arab of Turkish descent so I suppose I am a "white" Arab. I am also a classic Islamic scholar. The Prophet Mohammed was BLACK. All the early Islamic literature described him and his family as Black. Remember, at that time there was no prejudice against being Black, and people who are called "white" today were actually looked down upon and were the slaves. Read the following:
In his work, Islam’s Black Legacy: Some Leading Figures (1993), Mohammed Abu-Bakr includes among 62 leading Black figures of Islam the prophet Muhammad himself.1 Abu-Bakr rightly notes: "According to Muslim tradition, Muhammad descended in a straight line from Ishmael’s second son Kedar (Arabic: Qaidar), whose name in Hebrew signifies ‘black’…From the sons of Kedar inhabiting the northern Arabian desert, sprang the noblest tribe in Arabia, the Koreish (Quraysh), the tribe from which Muhammad descended."2
As we have also discussed above, the Arabian Qedar were a black tribe akin to the equally black Nabataeans, and these two were in someway related to the Quraysh, the black tribe par excellence of Mecca. As Robert F. Spencer remarks: “It is said that the Quraysh explained their short stature and dark skin by the fact that they always carefully adhered to endogamy.”3 Al-Jahiz (d. 869), the important Afro-Iraqi scholar of ninth century Baghdad, noted in his Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, “The Boast of the Blacks over the Whites”:
The ten lordly sons of Abd al-Muããalib were deep black (dalham) in color and big/tall (Dukhm). When Amir b. al-Tufayl saw them circumambulating (the Ka'ba) like dark camels, he said, “With such men as these is the custody of the Ka'ba preserved.” Abd Allah b. Abbas was very black and tall. Those of Abå Talib’s family, who are the most noble of men, are more or less black (såd).”4
This report is important for our discussion, not only because Abd al-Muããalib and his ten black sons were pure Arabs, but also because they are also the family of the Prophet, Abd al-Muããalib being his paternal grandfather.5 The Syrian scholar and historian al-Dhahabi (d. 1348) too reported that Abd Allah b. Abbas, Muhammad’s first cousin, and his son, Ali b. Abd Allah, were “very dark-skinned.”6 Ali b. Abu Talib, first cousin of the Prophet and future fourth caliph, is described by al-Suyuti and others as “husky, bald…pot-bellied, large-bearded…and jet-black (shadid al-udma).”7 Ali’s son, Abå Jafar Muhammad, according to Ibn Sad (d. 845), described Ali thusly: “He was a black-skinned man with big, heavy eyes, pot-bellied, bald, and kind of short.”8
This convergence of blackness, nobility and Qurayshi ethnicity is further demonstrated in these lines attributed to the seventh century CE Qurayshi poet, al-Fadil b. al-Abbas, called al-Akhdar al-LahabÊ “The Flaming Black”. al-Fadil is the Prophet Muhammad’s first cousin and he said: “I am the blackskinned one (al-Akhdar). I am well-known. My complexion is black. I am from the noble house of the Arabs.”9 Ibn Maníår (d. 1311) notes the opinion that al-Akh·ar here means aswad al-jilda, ‘Blackskinned’, and signifies that al-Fadil is from khaliß al-arab, the pure Arabs, “because the color of most of the Arabs is dark (al-udma).”10 Similarly Ibn BarrÊ (d. 1193) said also: “He (al-Fadil) means by this that his genealogy is pure and that he is a pure Arab (arabÊ mahd) because Arabs describe their color as black (al-aswad).”11 Thus, al-Fadil’s blackness (akhdar) is the visual mark of his pure, Qurayshi background, being born of a pure Arab mother and father. The Quraysh consisted of several sub-clans. Abd al-Muããalib and his descendents, including Muhammad, belonged to the Banå Hashim. Henry Lammens takes notice of “les Hasimites, famille où dominait le sang nègre” (“the Hashimites, the family where Black blood dominated”).12 Lammens remarks that they are “généralement qualifies de ??? = couleur foncée” (“generally described as adam = dark colored”). But the Banå Hashim were not the only sub-clans noted for their blackness. The Banå Zuhra, the tribe from which the prophet’s mother, Amia bt. Wahb, hailed, was likewise noted for its blackness. See for example the famous Saad ibn Abi Waqqas (d.ca. 646), cousin of Amia and uncle of Muhammad. He is described as very dark, tall and flat-nosed.13 Muhammad, it should be noted, was quite proud of his uncle Saad whose military contributions we shall discuss below. We are told that once Muhammad was sitting with some of his companions and Saad walked by. The prophet stopped and taunted: “That’s my uncle. Let any man show me his uncle.”14 This blackness of the Quraysh tribe is not insignificant to the religious history of Islam. The Quraysh were the custodians of the cult of the Ka'ba in pre-Qur?anic Mecca and at religious ceremonies they would declare naÈnu ahlu ÏÏahi (“We are the People of AÏÏah”) and throughout Arabia they were known as ahlu ÏÏah, the People of AÏÏah.15 In other words, the black tribe par excellence was also the AÏÏah-tribe par excellence and custodians of the cult of the Black God. Nevertheless, or rather as a consequence, Muhammad’s greatest struggle was with his own kinsmen, this black, AÏÏah-venerating Quraysh tribe. In the end, however, it would be the black Quraysh that became the rulers of Islam, at least in the short term. Not only were the Sunni caliphs drawn from them, but the Shiite Imams, descendents of the black Ali b. Abå Talib, were likewise black QurayshÊ Arabs.16 One would thus expect the Qurayshi prophet Muhammad to be black too, especially since he reportedly claimed to be a pure Arab for the house of Hashim17: this would make him very black-skinned like the pure Arabs from that tribe. Muhammad’s pedigree actually demands this as his whole immediate family tree were pure, black-skinned Qurayshi Arabs. I quote again Al-JaÈií’s important note in his Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan:
The ten lordly sons of Abd al Muããalib were deep black (dalham) in color and big/tall (dukhm). When Amir b. al-Tufayl saw them circumambulating (the Ka'ba) like dark camels, he said, “With such men as these is the custody of the Ka'ba preserved.” Abd Allah b. Abbas was very black and tall. Those of Abå Talib’s family, who are the most noble of men, are more or less black (såd).”18 Abd al Muããalib (d. 578) was the prophet’s grandfather and Abd Allah, one of his ten ‘deep black’ sons, was Muhammad’s father. Another deep black son, al-Abbas, was father to the above mentioned Abd Allah b. Abbas, described as black, and al-Fa·l b. al-Abbas, whose blackness was legendary. These were the uncle and first cousins of Muhammad. Abå Talib, another deep black uncle, was father to Ali b. Abd Allah, another first cousin of the prophet who was described as jet-black. All of these father-son pairs shared this deep blackness, what about the Abd Allah - Muhammad pair? We would expect the same, unless Muhammad’s mother made a mitigating contribution. But this is not likely. Amina, the prophet’s mother, was an Arab from the Qurayshi sub-clan Banå Zuhra, which was a black clan. Amina’s cousin and Muhammad’s maternal uncle, Saad ibn Abi Waqqas, also from Banå Zuhra, was very dark, tall and flat-nosed.19
But Muhammad had more than just Qurayshi blackness running through his veins. His great, great grandfather was Abd Manaf who bore with $tika bt. Murra al-SulaymÊ the prophet’s great grandfather \ashim. That is to say that the prophet’s great, great grandmother was from the jet-black Banå Sulaym. \ashim, the great grandfather, bore with Salma bt. Amrå ’l-KhazrajÊ the prophet’s grandfather, Abd al Muããalib. This means that his paternal great grandmother was from the black Medinese tribe Banå Khazraj. Abd al Muããalib stayed within the Quraysh, but he bore the prophet’s father Abd Allah with Faãima bt. Amrå al-MakhzåmÊ, from the exceptionally black Makhzåm clan.20 Muhammad’s maternal lineage is also mixed with non-QurayshÊ black Arab blood. His mother, Amina, is the daughter of Wahb b. Abd Manaf b. Zuhra whose mother (Amina’s grandmother) is said to be a SulaymÊ, another $tika bt. Al-Awqaß.21 The black Sulaym are thus considered the maternal uncles of the prophet and he is therefore reported to have said: “I am the son of the many $tikas of Sulaym.”22 This all indicates that Muhammad’s lineage is a mix of QurayshÊ, SulaymÊ, and KhazrajÊ blackness.
We thus have every reason to expect Muhammad to be black-skinned, and no reason to believe anything else was possible. We in fact find him described as such in TirmidhÊ’s Shama?il al- Muhammadiyyah. The following is reported on the authority of the famous Companion of the prophet, Anas b. Malik:
The Messenger of Allah… was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, of a goodly build. His hair was neither curly nor completely straight. He had a dark brown (asmar) complexion and when he walked he leant forward [walking briskly].23
???? asmar is a dark brown as evidenced from other formations from the same root24: samar “darkness, night”; al-garra al-samra? “the black continent (Africa)”.25 With the pedigree that he had, any other complexion for Muhammad would be incomprehensible. Yet, the same Anas b. Malik who informed us of the dark brown complexion of the prophet, also informs us thusly: While we were sitting with the Prophet in the mosque, a man came riding on a camel. He made his camel kneel down in the mosque, tied its foreleg and then said: “Who amongst you is Muhammad?” At that time the Prophet was sitting amongst us (his companions) leaning on his arm. We replied, “This white man reclining on his arm.”26
There are several other reports that describe Muhammad as ???? abya· white. How can the same man (Anas b. Malik) describe another (Muhammad) as both of dark brown complexion and as white? The problem, it turns out, is not in these texts but in our modern, Western inability to appreciate the premodern Arabic color classification system. We assume that terms such as white, green, blue, and red meant the same to the early Arabs that they do to us today. But as Moroccan scholar Tariq Berry explains in his book, The Unknown Arabs, this is simply not the case: The term white can be very confusing to those reading about the description of people of the past because, in the past, when Arabs described someone as white, they meant something entirely different from what is meant today. In the past, when the Arabs described someone as white, they meant either that he had a pure, noble, essence or that he had a nice, smooth complexion without any blemishes. They meant he had a black complexion with a light-brownish undertone.27 Berry’s point is confirmed by the appropriate Classical Arabic/Islamic sources. Ibn Maníår affirmed that “When the Arabs say that a person is white, they mean that he has a pure, clean, fautless integrity…They don’t mean that he has white skin…”28 Similarly, al-Dhahabi informs us that “When the Arabs say a person is white, they mean he is black with a light-brownish undertone.”29 Particularly important was the observation of the 9th century CE Arabic scholar Thalab, who tells us that : “The Arabs don’t say that a man is white because of a white complexion. White to the Arabs means that a person is pure, without any faults. If they meant his complexion was white, they said ‘red’ (aÈmar).”30 Indeed, as David Goldenberg notes, ‘white ???? ’ in pre-modern Arabic was about “luminosity, not chromaticity.”31 That is to say, ???? connoted brilliance, not paleness of skin. The latter was described as ‘red’ ? ??? aÈmar, which is how non- Arab whites such as Persians and Byzantines were described.32 In other words, what we call white today the early Arabs called red, and what they called white often was what we would today call black! It is certain that Muhammad could not have been what we consider white today; he could not have been fair or pale-skinned at all, for a pale-skinned Arab was such an oddity that the prophet could not have claimed be a pure QurayshÊ Arab. The seventh century Arab from the tribe of Nakha?i, Shurayk al- Qa·i, could claim that, because it was such a rare occurrence “a fair-skinned Arab is something inconceivable and unthinkable.”33 So too did al-Dhahabi report that: “Red, in the language of the people from the Hijaz, means fair-complexioned and this color is rare amongst the Arabs.”34 On the other hand, the Arabs prided themselves on being black, is conscious contrast to the pale-skinned non-Arabs. Al-JaÈií could still claim in the 9th century: ????? ???? ????? ????? al-arab tafkhar bi-sawad al-lawn “The Arabs pride themselves in (their) black color”35
These noble Black Arabs even detested pale skin. Al-Mubarrad (d. 898), the leading figure in the Basran grammatical tradition, is quoted as saying: “The Arabs used to take pride in their darkness and blackness and they had a distaste for a light complexion and they used to say that a light complexion was the complexion of the non-Arabs”. Part of the reason for this distaste is that the slaves at the time were largely from pale-skinned peoples, such that aÈmar “red” came to mean “slave” back then, just as abid “servant/slave” means black today in the now white Muslim world. As Dana Marniche observes: Anyone familiar with the Arabic writings of the Syrian, Iraqi and Iranian historians up until the 14th century knows that this is also their description of the early ‘pure’ Arab clans of the Arabian peninsula… [i.e. “blacker than the blackest ink – no shred of white on them except their teeth.”]…The irony of history is that early Arabic-speaking historians and linguists made a distinction between the Arabs in Arabia and the fair-skinned peoples to the north; and contrary to what may be fact in our day, in the days of early Islam, those called ‘Arabs’ looked down condescendingly on fair-skinned populations and commonly used the phrase ‘fairskinned as a slave’ when describing individuals in tribes in the peninsula that were pale in complexion…Of course, today due mainly to slavery and conversion of peoples to the ‘Arab’ nationality, the opposite is thought to be true by many in the West.
A red or pale-skinned Muhammad would thus have been a profound oddity in 7th century Arabia and would have had little chance of success amongst the proud, black Meccans and Medinese. The Meccan objectors to his message accused of some of everything, but never of being a non-Arab! There is absolutely no reason to believe he was pale-skinned other than much later representations that coincide with a major demographic change it the Muslim world, a change that brought with it a strong anti-black ideology.36 We thus have every reason to accept the truth of Anas b. Malik’s description of the prophet as dark brown (asmar) and to conclude that, as his black cousins Ali and al-Fa·l resembled their black fathers (his black uncles), he resembled his black father, especially since his mother’s side was black as well.37
FOOTNOTES 1 Abu-Bakr, Islam’s Black Legacy, Chapter 1. See also Rogers, Sex and Race, I: 95 who states that “Mohamet, himself, was to all accounts a Negro.” Ben-Jochannon too accepted that Muhammad was “in the family of the Black Race”. African Origins, 237. 2 Abu-Bakr, Islam’s Black Legacy, 1. 3 Robert F. Spencer, “The Arabian Matriarchate: An Old Controversy,” Southwestern Journal of Anthropology 8 (Winter, 1952) 488. 4 Al-JaÈií, Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, in Risa"il Al-JaÈií, 4 vols. (1964/1384) I:209. 5 See below. 6 al-Dhahabi, Siyar, V:253 7 Al-Suyåãi, Tarikh al-khulafa (Cairo: Dar al-Fikr al-Arabi, 1975) 186. On shadid al-udma as ‘jet-black’ see Berry, Unknown, 54. 8 Ibn Sad, al-Tabaqat al-kubra (Beirut: Dar Sadir) 8:25. On Ali as short and dark brown see Henry Stubbe, An Account of the Rise and Progress of Muhammadanism (1911) XX; I.M.N. al-Jubouri, History of Islamic Philosophy – With View of Greek Philosophy and Early History of Islam (2004), 155; Philip K Hitti, History of the Arabs, 10th edition (London: Macmillan Education Ltd, 1970) 183. 9 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-arab, s.v. ???? IV:245f. 10 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-arab, s.v. ???? IV:245; E.W. Lane, Arabic-English, I: 756 s.v. . ??? 11 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-arab, s.v. ???? IV:245. 12 Études sur le siècle des Omayyades (Beirut: Imprimerie Calholique, 1930) 44. 13 al-Dhahabi, Siyar, 1:97. 14 Abd al-RaÈman Rafat al-Basha, ‘uwar min Èayat al-‘aÈabah (Beirut: Mu?assasat al-Risalah, 1974-75) 287. 15 Uri Rubin, “The Ilaf of Quraysh: A Study of såra CVI,” Arabica 31 (1984): 165-188; Margoliouth, Mohammed, 19. 16 Berry, Unknown Arabs, 62-65. 17 He is supposed to have described himself as “Arab of the Arabs, of the purest blood of your land, of the family of the Hashim and of the tribe of Quraysh.”Quoted in Chandler, “Ebony and Bronze,” 285. 18 Al-JaÈií, Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, in Risa"il Al-JaÈií, 4 vols. (1964/1384) I:209. 19 al-Dhahabi, Siyar, 1:97. 20 On the significance of these matrilateral listings in Muhammad’s genealogy see Daniel Martin Varisco, “Metaphors and Sacred History: The Genealogy of Muhammad and the Arab ‘Tribe’,” Anthropological Quarterly 68 (1995): 139-156, esp. 148-150. 21 Ibn Athir, al-Nihaya fÊ gharÊb al-ÈadÊth (Cairo, 1385/1965) III:180 s.v. -t-k; Lecker, Banå sulaym, 114. 22 Muhammad b. Yåsuf al-‘aliÈÊ al-ShamÊ, Subul al-huda wa-‘l-rashad fÊ sÊrat khayr al-bad (Cairo, 1392/1972) I:384-85; Lecker, Banå sulaym, 114-115. 23 Al-TirmidhÊ, Shama?il al-Muhammadiyyah, 2. 24 J M. Cowan (ed.), Hans Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary 4th edition (Ithica: Spoken Language Services, Inc., 1994) 500 s.v. .??? 25 Berry, Unknown Arabs, 49 notes: “When the Arabs of the past said that a person was brown, they meant that he was dark-skinned; close to black, which is actually a dark shade of brown.” 26 Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 1 no. 63: 27 Berry, Unknown Arabs, 49. 28 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-Arab 7:124. 29 Al-Dhahabi, Siyar alam al-nubala (Beirut: Risala Establishment, 1992) 2:168. 30 Ibn Maníår, Lisan al-Arab. 4:210. 31 Goldenberg, Curse of Ham, 93. 32 Goldziher, Muslim Studies, 1:268. 33 Ibn Abd Rabbih, al-Iqd al-farid (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiya, 1983) 8:140. 34 Al-Dhahabi, Siyar, 2:168. 35 Al-JaÈií, Fakhr al-sådan ala al-bidan, 207. See also Goldziher, Muslim Studies, 1:268 who notes that in contrast to the Persians who are described as red or light-skinned (aÈmar) the Arabs call themselves black. 36 See below. 37 Chandler, “Ebony and Bronze,” 280: “All of the chronicles that survive intact agree that Ismael and Muhammad were of the Black Race…A careful examination of history reveals that the Prophet Muhammad…was of the Black Race and was black in complexion.”
Posts: 2 | From: Yemen | Registered: May 2011
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quote: can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
its abeed because they were the one of the last people to carry on the trade on a wide scale. add on that it was exacerbated by demand of the customers. the trade of the black nations was salt and gold and a few slaves compared to the famous atlantic but when gold and salt fell in it's demand and with every subject renegading against the mali-songhai empire then people became a commodity also accompanied with the aggressive military presence of the european nations hence blacks as slaves started as raiding rather than commercial trade.
white arabs became dominant during the abaasi take over in which they were mixed and bred with the natives. they were always dominant in number though. the arabs were very minute in number compared to the non-arabs. most of their armies were native peoples who joined ranks.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
^^^^ So are the White Arabs reguarded as Arab in the Muslim world. Do they, The Black Arabs, know that pretty much the whole world see the Arabs as White Caucasians??
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Yasmin can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
Thanks..
BTW welcome to the Forum...Join your Arab Brother Alwaad Berry who is the main poster representing for the Black Arabs...
A-Salaam-Alaykum...
Jari Productions..
Jari werent you the one in one of your post saying how much you hate arabs and islam?? Now because this white man is acknowledging the prophet as being black you want to be suck up to him and be his friend? You really are one hypocritical uncle tom piece of ****
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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The Abbasid Caliphate or, more simply, the Abbasids (Arabic: العبّاسيّون / ISO 233: al-‘abbāsīyūn), was the third of the Islamic caliphates. It was ruled by the Abbasid dynasty of caliphs, who built their capital in Baghdad after overthrowing the Umayyad caliphs from all but the Al Andalus region.
So then Bhagdad was the Creation of White Arabs...Hmm interesting...
So then would it be fair to say the Black Arabs created Petra and Islam..(LOL)...Too bad for Bhagdad in their list of accomplishments.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^^^ your forefathers were ashanti lmao you probaly have more ashanti blood in you than i do as i am mixed lol
I'll keep it simple if you dont like africans dont talk about us dont claim our history just so you can prove to your white masters that your people had great civilisations!
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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^^^ I edited my post because honestly Why am I commenting to you??
LOL, seriously who the F-k are you..??
And I don't claim your history. I have never did anything on the Ashanti. My Concern is with Ethiopia, I can care less about you nor your forefathers.
Glad Im such an impact on your meaningless life, I honestly did'nt even know you were still posting after that thread I expressing my feelings on the Uncle Tom slave trading Ashanti thread.
Glad to see I have a fan club..lol.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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your ancestor came from west africa like it or not your people were ashanti get over it you are not ethiopian or egyptian your just angry because i exposed you as the lying hypocrite that you truly are.
Trust me you dont have a fan club you probaly dont even have any friends.
And its plain and simple if you dont like africans dont talk about us its bad enought that we have you black americans making us look bad with all your youtube videos, sara suten seti, ashra kwesi, moors, nation of islam and black hebrew israelite bullshit
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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The Abbasid Caliphate or, more simply, the Abbasids (Arabic: العبّاسيّون / ISO 233: al-‘abbāsīyūn), was the third of the Islamic caliphates. It was ruled by the Abbasid dynasty of caliphs, who built their capital in Baghdad after overthrowing the Umayyad caliphs from all but the Al Andalus region.
So then Bhagdad was the Creation of White Arabs...Hmm interesting...
So then would it be fair to say the Black Arabs created Petra and Islam..(LOL)...Too bad for Bhagdad in their list of accomplishments
no not really the creation of these places was not from the arabs. they were simply carriers and fighters for the religion. the technology part is from the non-arabs. this is mentioned in the religion and discussed by the scholars. everybody just went under the name of arabs. no different than america. contributions to the united states came from various demographics other than the ethnicity of the ruling class but they all went under the name of american. an example would be the american revolutionary war which involved peoples such as hugenots, haitians, french, native americans, african americans, and etc.. it was kinda common back in the day. different groups under one flag. christopher columbus is an example. white americans are even made of majority non-anglo groups who later became white. in south africa the chinese are legally black so bascially who did this and who did that would go to all who were involved under the particular flag.
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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I consider my people to be among the various Mande-speaking groups in West Africa. But you can't use Youtube as a way to knock Black Americans. Everybody puts crap on Youtube...Whites, Blacks, Asians, Arabs...why just focus on Blacks??? I personally believe our culture has been hijacked & too defined by the media but that's a different topic. So how do Asante & Mande people get along in Africa?
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Adbulbenson...I understand what you are saying and like I said it makes sense the the some Arabs like the southern Arabs were black due to the proximity of the Gulf of Aden. At the same time these Arabs need to be recognized if as you and Aswani claim that Arabic speakers know the original arabs were black. Its kind of pathetic they get no recognition in Modern Arab/Islamic History, Even Black Americans get some recognition.
@ Asante: You are a moron if you think Sara Suten Seti represents black Americans. What I find funny is how you call me a Uncle Tom for expressing my feelings on how the Ashanti Traded African men, women and children for what is best described as European Junk, but it takes less than 2 seconds for you to deride African Americans based on Cults.
I can eaisily counter with the vast amount of Niggerish things Africans do but like I said there is no point in even commenting to you, like I said "Who the F-k are you..LMAO"
And Why keep saying Im claiming "Your" culture?? When Have I claimed the Ashante or even represented them at all?? LOL...
You are not even on my radar, your gonna have to get some more Cred.
I consider my people to be among the various Mande-speaking groups in West Africa ^^^^ Ditto, Also the Congo people.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Adbulbenson...I understand what you are saying and like I said it makes sense the the some Arabs like the southern Arabs were black due to the proximity of the Gulf of Aden. At the same time these Arabs need to be recognized if as you and Aswani claim that Arabic speakers know the original arabs were black. Its kind of pathetic they get no recognition in Modern Arab/Islamic History, Even Black Americans get some recognition.
the issue is a shadowed by all kinds of ignorance. arabs(some) know this but they are not in charge of media or book publishing. arab nations(government) you have to understand work for westerners and the white agenda was birthed amongst the arabized population b 4 the coming of the europeans to exacerbate the problem. awlaadberry is doing his part which is good and ive seen arabs copy and paste his stuff on other websites, so his work is actually spreading amongst arab populations. southern populations(yemen, oman) were not the only places were dark-skinned populations existed qahtaan and adnaani arabs were all dark-skinned and these people migrated to different parts of the peninsula
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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Man stop it with all this bullshit honestly your making yourself look stupid! Jari wrote: "You are a moron if you think Sara Suten Seti represents black Americans. What I find funny is how you call me a Uncle Tom for expressing my feelings on how the Ashanti Traded African men, women and children for what is best described as European Junk, but it takes less than 2 seconds for you to deride African Americans based on Cults."
I couldn't care less about Europe nearly every culture in the world had practiced some sort of slavery get over it.
Jari wrote: "I can eaisily counter with the vast amount of Niggerish things Africans do but like I said there is no point in even commenting to you, like I said "Who the F-k are you..LMAO"
Well go ahead you Oreos don't effect me
jari wrote: "When have I ever claimed ashante or represented them"
You seem to have no problem representing them when your debating whites but when it comes to real Africans you talk them down as if there nothing!
Jari wrote: "I consider my people to be among the various Mande-speaking groups in West Africa"
WTF are you talking about the Mande were heavily involved in the slave trade more of there people went to the America then ours lol your are a joke
Jari just admit it your angry cause I called you out on being a fake and an uncle Tom you claim to hate Arabs and islam yet when a white man acknowledges the real Arabs as being black you suck up to him like the little bitch that you are.
Just call me jari has just been debunked by this ashante warrior THE END
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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I consider my people to be among the various Mande-speaking groups in West Africa. But you can't use Youtube as a way to knock Black Americans. Everybody puts crap on Youtube...Whites, Blacks, Asians, Arabs...why just focus on Blacks??? I personally believe our culture has been hijacked & too defined by the media but that's a different topic. So how do Asante & Mande people get along in Africa?
I really don't care what black Americans do on YouTube I only said that so that it would make jari angry I acknowledge all of my African brothers whether there in Africa the Americas Australia or Europe I just have no respect for people who debate whites on how great African culture is yet when it comes to an African they would talk them down as if they were nothing. In jari case he needs the acknowledgement of whites just to make himself feel better
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Yasmin can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
Thanks..
BTW welcome to the Forum...Join your Arab Brother Alwaad Berry who is the main poster representing for the Black Arabs...
A-Salaam-Alaykum...
Gundislavus "the Iberian" Productions..
Goldenberg states in the Curse of Ham, “This view of the Arab as dark-skinned is also found among other peoples as is indicated by the term arap (i.e. Arab) meaning black African in modern Turkish, Greek and Russian as well as in Yiddish.” (Goldenberg, p 2003. 124) Today, the lesser modified remnants of the Arab tribes once known to have been settled as far North as Turkey and Greece in the Medieval period are still found in southern Mesopotamia among the Beni Amir or Hawazin tribes who figure among those “blacks” facing “racial discrimination in what was Mesopotamia modern and called ABEED along with the descendants of the Zanj!
These original north Arabians K'ab the al Muntafik Beni Amir or Hawazin in Iraq are today called Abeed because they are "black" - PERIOD.
How many times do you have to be told Gundislavus the early Arabs or Arabians in general were black a people from Yarab descendant of Saba like the rest of Qahtan. Their true descendants still claim to come from Africa originally. "Arab" is a language and nationality today and anyone can call themselves Arab.
Jahiz wrote, “if the Arabs are reddish, then they belong to the Rum (Byzantines), Saqaliba (Slavs), Persians and Khurasanis...."
Non-Arabs like Persians and Khurasanis took over the Islamic world in the Abbasid period. You might want to look up some history of the Middle East. They disliked black peoples like the Arabs who had originally conquered them and treated as slaves.
Rumi a PERSIAN wrote to Abbasid leaders in the 9th century - "You insulted (the family of the Prophet) because of their blackness (bi-l-sawad), while there are still deep black, PURE_BLOODED ARABS. However, you are white – the Romans (Byzantines) have embellished your faces with their color." (cited by Berry and Wesley Muhammad, 2010, p. 29).
From the account of Ma Huang admiral of Zheng He of the 14th century explorer - "The Country of the Heavenly Square“… from Zhida (today’s Jedda or Jiddah) you go West and after traveling for one day you reach the city where the king resides. It is named the capital city of Moqie (Mecca)… They profess the Muslim religion a holy man first expanded and spread the doctrine of his teaching in this country, and right down to the present day the people of the country all observe the regulations of the doctrine in their actions, not daring to commit the slightest transgression. The people of this country are stalwart and fine looking, and their limbs and faces are of a dark purple color”.
There “are two main categories of blacks in Iraq, mostly in the south, who total about 300,000: those of East African origin numbering around 100,000; and those of whom are Arab and originate from the Hejaz, claiming to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad, who moved to this country mostly in the 1750s and 1980s. The latter are mostly from the Muntafek tribe... " now available for purchase at Amazon.com Iraq's Blacks”, APS Diplomat Redrawing the Islamic Map (Newsletter), December 15, 2008, Arab Press Service, Volume: 56 Issue: 6; Distributed by Gale, a part of Cengage Learning Volume 56 Issue: 6
All early Arab tribes are at one time called black or near black with kinky hair. ALL OF THEM! This includes the Kindites except for Sasak and Sakun whom Tabari describes as black with straight hair. The Azd or Kahlan tribes, the Qays or Sulaym (black as lava and Hawazin (modern Abeed of Iraq) the Bakir bin Wail (still black) the Anaeza and Lakhimids of the Azd and Lihyan now called Lahiyan of the Hudhail (with black and shining skins todya), the Tayyi, Shammar and Madhij whose leader Shuraik al Cadi (el -Ca'idah) said a fair-skinned Arab is INCONCEIVABLE and one of the 7 rare things in this world in the 7th century (according to a Cordoban work the Precious Necklace written by an Arabized Iranian in the 9th.).
Iraqi's are people the Arabs conquered. "White Syrians", Iranians and Turks are peoples the Arabs conquered and Arabized - PERIOD. These people are called the "red " men by early Arab peoples and some of their descendants now occupy the peninsula among the original black or Arab populations. It doesn't mean these people can not be called Arabs today.
All of the southern and northern tribes - the Kedarenes (Nabataeans)are called black in documents - As late as the 14th century Andalusian descended Ibn Khaldun says the largest group of the north Arabians were the Beni Amir bin Zaza tribes represented today by the ABID of Iraq , Kab, Uqayl Khafaja, Khazael in Khuzestan and southern Iraq living BLACKS i.e. real Arabs!
“Tung Tien” and “T’ang History” written in the 8th and 10th centuries in China respectively have notices regarding the visit of early delegations from the Hijaz. They mention that men from the country of the Arabs “are black and bearded” and “have high noses” (cited in Muhammad, p. 194, Black Arabia. 2009). The delegations involved were led by S'ad ibn Waqqas and his father CLOSE relatives of MOHAMMAD.
I guess I will have to report the other hundred accounts of what the Arabians looked like later when I am able to come back to the forum since some of us aren't getting the gist of the problem, but I couldn't let your Iberian nonsense stand for long. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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your ancestor came from west africa like it or not your people were ashanti get over it you are not ethiopian or egyptian your just angry because i exposed you as the lying hypocrite that you truly are.
Trust me you dont have a fan club you probaly dont even have any friends.
And its plain and simple if you dont like africans dont talk about us its bad enought that we have you black americans making us look bad with all your youtube videos, sara suten seti, ashra kwesi, moors, nation of islam and black hebrew israelite bullshit
Jari is probably Gundislavus a fake and likely Iberian who likes to call blacks monkeys and clowns both here and on you tube. he is probably not black or African which is why he feels threatened when people speak about Moors and Arabs as black AS DO ALL ANCIENT DOCUMENTS.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I forgot to add according to Richard Burton the Hijaz area or eastern Arabia was universally called East Africa and in south Arabia the land of SHEM up until the 20th century when colonialist Europeans changed it.
Mecca in recent times is also a place occupied totally by descendants foreigners taking Abyssinian concubines according to encylopedias of the early 20th and late 19th centuries.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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I believe Mohammed was probably black, aswani answered this a while back, and I trust Aswani's opinion.
My question is what happened to these black Arabs...You talk to the Ave. So called Arab Muslim and they claim Mohammed was not black. My confusion is why majority of Muslims don't see Mohammed as black...
Abdulbenson addressed that..No need to spam.
You're precious Arabs are black...
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Yasmin can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
Thanks..
BTW welcome to the Forum...Join your Arab Brother Alwaad Berry who is the main poster representing for the Black Arabs...
A-Salaam-Alaykum...
Gundislavus "the Iberian" Productions..
Goldenberg states in the Curse of Ham, “This view of the Arab as dark-skinned is also found among other peoples as is indicated by the term arap (i.e. Arab) meaning black African in modern Turkish, Greek and Russian as well as in Yiddish.” (Goldenberg, p 2003. 124) Today, the lesser modified remnants of the Arab tribes once known to have been settled as far North as Turkey and Greece in the Medieval period are still found in southern Mesopotamia among the Beni Amir or Hawazin tribes who figure among those “blacks” facing “racial discrimination in what was Mesopotamia modern and called ABEED along with the descendants of the Zanj!
These original north Arabians K'ab the al Muntafik Beni Amir or Hawazin in Iraq are today called Abeed because they are "black" - PERIOD.
How many times do you have to be told Gundislavus the early Arabs or Arabians in general were black a people from Yarab descendant of Saba like the rest of Qahtan. Their true descendants still claim to come from Africa originally. "Arab" is a language and nationality today and anyone can call themselves Arab.
Jahiz wrote, “if the Arabs are reddish, then they belong to the Rum (Byzantines), Saqaliba (Slavs), Persians and Khurasanis...."
Non-Arabs like Persians and Khurasanis took over the Islamic world in the Abbasid period. You might want to look up some history of the Middle East. They disliked black peoples like the Arabs who had originally conquered them and treated as slaves.
Rumi a PERSIAN wrote to Abbasid leaders in the 9th century - "You insulted (the family of the Prophet) because of their blackness (bi-l-sawad), while there are still deep black, PURE_BLOODED ARABS. However, you are white – the Romans (Byzantines) have embellished your faces with their color." (cited by Berry and Wesley Muhammad, 2010, p. 29).
From the account of Ma Huang admiral of Zheng He of the 14th century explorer - "The Country of the Heavenly Square“… from Zhida (today’s Jedda or Jiddah) you go West and after traveling for one day you reach the city where the king resides. It is named the capital city of Moqie (Mecca)… They profess the Muslim religion a holy man first expanded and spread the doctrine of his teaching in this country, and right down to the present day the people of the country all observe the regulations of the doctrine in their actions, not daring to commit the slightest transgression. The people of this country are stalwart and fine looking, and their limbs and faces are of a dark purple color”.
There “are two main categories of blacks in Iraq, mostly in the south, who total about 300,000: those of East African origin numbering around 100,000; and those of whom are Arab and originate from the Hejaz, claiming to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad, who moved to this country mostly in the 1750s and 1980s. The latter are mostly from the Muntafek tribe... " now available for purchase at Amazon.com Iraq's Blacks”, APS Diplomat Redrawing the Islamic Map (Newsletter), December 15, 2008, Arab Press Service, Volume: 56 Issue: 6; Distributed by Gale, a part of Cengage Learning Volume 56 Issue: 6
All early Arab tribes are at one time called black or near black with kinky hair. ALL OF THEM! This includes the Kindites except for Sasak and Sakun whom Tabari describes as black with straight hair. The Azd or Kahlan tribes, the Qays or Sulaym (black as lava and Hawazin (modern Abeed of Iraq) the Bakir bin Wail (still black) the Anaeza and Lakhimids of the Azd and Lihyan now called Lahiyan of the Hudhail (with black and shining skins todya), the Tayyi, Shammar and Madhij whose leader Shuraik al Cadi (el -Ca'idah) said a fair-skinned Arab is INCONCEIVABLE and one of the 7 rare things in this world in the 7th century (according to a Cordoban work the Precious Necklace written by an Arabized Iranian in the 9th.).
Iraqi's are people the Arabs conquered. "White Syrians", Iranians and Turks are peoples the Arabs conquered and Arabized - PERIOD. These people are called the "red " men by early Arab peoples and some of their descendants now occupy the peninsula among the original black or Arab populations. It doesn't mean these people can not be called Arabs today.
All of the southern and northern tribes - the Kedarenes (Nabataeans)are called black in documents - As late as the 14th century Andalusian descended Ibn Khaldun says the largest group of the north Arabians were the Beni Amir bin Zaza tribes represented today by the ABID of Iraq , Kab, Uqayl Khafaja, Khazael in Khuzestan and southern Iraq living BLACKS i.e. real Arabs!
“Tung Tien” and “T’ang History” written in the 8th and 10th centuries in China respectively have notices regarding the visit of early delegations from the Hijaz. They mention that men from the country of the Arabs “are black and bearded” and “have high noses” (cited in Muhammad, p. 194, Black Arabia. 2009). The delegations involved were led by S'ad ibn Waqqas and his father CLOSE relatives of MOHAMMAD.
I guess I will have to report the other hundred accounts of what the Arabians looked like later when I am able to come back to the forum since some of us aren't getting the gist of the problem, but I couldn't let your Iberian nonsense stand for long.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
If anything the so called Sabeans were black, def. They were associated with Cush and Egypt in the Bible...
Thus said the LORD, The labor of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over to you, and they shall be yours
Should put to rest any claims that the Ethiopians needed "Arabs" to develop Geez when the Arabs in question were black themselves. Geez was developed by Ethiopians anyway.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I forgot to add according to Richard Burton the Hijaz area or eastern Arabia was universally called East Africa and in south Arabia the land of SHEM up until the 20th century when colonialist Europeans changed it.
Mecca in recent times is also a place occupied totally by descendants foreigners taking Abyssinian concubines according to encylopedias of the early 20th and late 19th centuries.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Well thats good then If Alwaad is doing his part. He should def. give credit to where credit is due IMO. And honestly I probably would have more respect for black Arabs given their plight. Honestly my low opinion of Arabs comes from my encounters with the Racist Mongoloid types who think Blacks are trying to steal their non existant culture. I don't think outside Alwaad Ive ever had a problem with a black Arab. You all know Im not a fan of Islam but I give credit to when it is due.
quote:Originally posted by alurubenson:
quote:Adbulbenson...I understand what you are saying and like I said it makes sense the the some Arabs like the southern Arabs were black due to the proximity of the Gulf of Aden. At the same time these Arabs need to be recognized if as you and Aswani claim that Arabic speakers know the original arabs were black. Its kind of pathetic they get no recognition in Modern Arab/Islamic History, Even Black Americans get some recognition.
the issue is a shadowed by all kinds of ignorance. arabs(some) know this but they are not in charge of media or book publishing. arab nations(government) you have to understand work for westerners and the white agenda was birthed amongst the arabized population b 4 the coming of the europeans to exacerbate the problem. awlaadberry is doing his part which is good and ive seen arabs copy and paste his stuff on other websites, so his work is actually spreading amongst arab populations. southern populations(yemen, oman) were not the only places were dark-skinned populations existed qahtaan and adnaani arabs were all dark-skinned and these people migrated to different parts of the peninsula
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Im not going to bog this thread down in a simple debate, like I said this guy is not even on my radar. At least learn to quote right..LOL
I couldn't care less about Europe nearly every culture in the world had practiced some sort of slavery get over it.
Yes, this is true but in the context of the thread Brada created if the slaves who destroyed the Asanti Empire were Uncle Toms, the Ashanti were def. Uncle Toms for making their #1 fucking export Human Cargo. No matter how much you try to justify it it wont change the facts. No other people made Human Cargo a #1 export and for of all things European junk. LOL, How Pathetic.
Well go ahead you Oreos don't effect me ^^^ More usage of African American lingo..LOL, pathetic.
You seem to have no problem representing them when your debating whites but when it comes to real Africans you talk them down as if there nothing!
You post a thread and no where do I represent the Ashanti at all. Also you keep saying Africans but the people I called out were the Ashanti, and It was against Brada calling Former slaves who destroyed a Slave Trading Empire "Uncle Toms"..The only other African people I have a problem with who sold slaves as a #1 export are some East Africans. I believe the Zanzibari but even they have made an official apology for their deeds.
No where did I say "Africans", there is no monolith African culture and majority of Africans did not make slaves the #1 export like the Ashanti.
I believe what you are doing is called "Strawman Fallacy"..LOL
WTF are you talking about the Mande were heavily involved in the slave trade more of there people went to the America then ours lol your are a joke
The Mande Empires did not make Slaves their #1 Export. The Ashanti became rich off selling slaves.
Jari just admit it your angry cause I called you out on being a fake and an uncle Tom you claim to hate Arabs and islam yet when a white man acknowledges the real Arabs as being black you suck up to him like the little bitch that you are.
You are seriously a f-king moron...LOL. It really is to easy to counter you..
Here are some stuff from me before this man showed up..
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also I read your page about the black Arabs, do you have any original sources to back up your claims?? Are there any University or schorlarly references to the originals???
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: I don't believe all arabs were black, I believe her and Alwaadberry have a point that the Southern Arabs of the 6th century were black, as it makes no sense that black populations that live a hop and skip away like the Sabans and Ethiopians, and Eritreans were black.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Have'nt you ever thought that Muhammed said this because there were "Non Egyptians" In Egypt who ruled and that the real Egyptians were the Kinky haired and black residents. When the Muslims attacked Egypt it was the Greeks who were ruling at the Time that fought and defended against the Muslims, normal Egyptians unless they were threatened by the removal of Greek powers did not fight the Muslims.
In essence Muhammed could be saying, in Regards to Egypt.."Remember the Kinky Haired black Egyptians are your Kin" I.E not the Greek and Mixed Egyptians who controlled the Delta and Alexandria and the Richer cities...I.E don't harm them(The Black Kinky Haired..YOUR KIN).
For instance if a bunch of Africans took over Europe for 300 plus years and subjugated the Native whites and then a White Powerful Army from America decideds to Invade Europe, would it not make sense if the LEader of the resistance said.."Remember the Blond, Fair skinned Europeans are you Kin, so treat them well and don't harm them"..to folks who have not been to Europe in 300 Plus yrs, who don't really know who to attack..So Muhammed could be saying "Don't Go on a Killing Spree, Remember the Blacks with Kinky hair are your Kin"...
You are obviously taking things out of proportion...which is so typical of you.
^^^^ Months before this supposed white person showed up. I was being sarcastic(Ah Salaam Alaykum)I doubt this person is even white. You really are f-king slow but I get it you need any little thing to help you huh..
Im not a fan of Islam but it played a role in history, and not everything was bad. I own 3 books on Islamic History, and as I said Im curious as to the plight of the Black Arabs.
Before Abdulbenson no one answered my questions about the black Arabs, I asked Alwaad, and I forgot to ask Aswani.
Just call me jari has just been debunked by this ashante warrior THE END
The Ashanti were never warriors, you guys got your asses handed down by the same people you sold into slavery..LMAO..Fail. and please keep thinking your Strawman Fallacious arguments "Debunked" me..
Silly boy tricks are for kids...
HAHAHA
AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!!!
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I should have said these Arabs are Yemeni Arabs...
Check out the man in the backgroud of the last pic with an afro. kinda reminds me of this image..
From a Jewish Catacomb..
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: If anything the Orignal Arabs probably looked like Dravidians, and other Eastern Kushites. Kush was also associated with India.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Goldenberg states in the Curse of Ham, “This view of the Arab as dark-skinned is also found among other peoples as is indicated by the term arap (i.e. Arab) meaning black African in modern Turkish, Greek and Russian as well as in Yiddish.” (Goldenberg, p 2003. 124) Today, the lesser modified remnants of the Arab tribes once known to have been settled as far North as Turkey and Greece in the Medieval period are still found in southern Mesopotamia among the Beni Amir or Hawazin tribes who figure among those “blacks” facing “racial discrimination in what was Mesopotamia modern and called ABEED along with the descendants of the Zanj!
These original north Arabians K'ab the al Muntafik Beni Amir or Hawazin in Iraq are today called Abeed because they are "black" - PERIOD.
banu 2mir and hawazin dem my peeps awlaad sa3yd represent ashawiya 2 d fullest
-------------------- لا اله الا الله و محمد الرسول الله Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
jari wrote: "Yes, this is true but in the context of the thread Brada created if the slaves who destroyed the Asanti Empire were Uncle Toms, the Ashanti were def. Uncle Toms for making their #1 fucking export Human Cargo. No matter how much you try to justify it it wont change the facts. No other people made Human Cargo a #1 export and for of all things European junk. LOL, How Pathetic"
They were uncle toms for fighting against the ashanti its just a fact look at what the maroons did in the americas they actually fought back against the whites while these uncle toms were fighting for there masters and i also do believe that most of the slave revolts in the americas were done by which group of people???? oh thats right it was the akan. And no the ashanti were just doing business the them the british tried to take over us and we beat them in many wars bitch.
Jari wrote: "More usage of African American lingo..LOL, pathetic""
i have no problems with african americans they are my people i have problems with uncle toms just like yourself
Jari wrote: "You post a thread and no where do I represent the Ashanti at all. Also you keep saying Africans but the people I called out were the Ashanti, and It was against Brada calling Former slaves who destroyed a Slave Trading Empire "Uncle Toms"..The only other African people I have a problem with who sold slaves as a #1 export are some East Africans. I believe the Zanzibari but even they have made an official apology for their deeds. No where did I say "Africans", there is no monolith African culture and majority of Africans did not make slaves the #1 export like the Ashanti. I believe what you are doing is called "Strawman Fallacy"..LOL""
Please tell in the first post of the thread do you not mention the akan people when you are trying to debate this white person on comparing egypt to other cultures?? cmon stop lying !!!!
Oh so you have no problem with the northern sudanese who were killing of there southern sudanese brothers? you have no problem with the hutus for killing the tutsis or the bantu for killing all those innocent khoi san people through expansion or the north african moors for destroying ghana mali and songhai empires oh no those guys are alright arent they. And the ashanti did apologise for there role in the slave trade and they also offered any african american free land if they ever wanted to return to ghana.
jari wrote: "The Mande Empires did not make Slaves their #1 Export. The Ashanti became rich off selling slaves"
The mande people not the empire dumbass sold there people to the whites they did the exact same thing stop being a hypocrite it doesnt matter if ashanti got more money then them they still did it!!
jari wrote:"The Ashanti were never warriors, you guys got your asses handed down by the same people you sold into slavery..LMAO..Fail. and please keep thinking your Strawman Fallacious arguments "Debunked" me"
The Ashanti wars against England, 3 wars between 1803 and 1880. England lost twice and won once yes we ot our asses handed to us haha what a joke
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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your ancestor came from west africa like it or not your people were ashanti get over it you are not ethiopian or egyptian your just angry because i exposed you as the lying hypocrite that you truly are.
Trust me you dont have a fan club you probaly dont even have any friends.
And its plain and simple if you dont like africans dont talk about us its bad enought that we have you black americans making us look bad with all your youtube videos, sara suten seti, ashra kwesi, moors, nation of islam and black hebrew israelite bullshit
Jari is probably Gundislavus a fake and likely Iberian who likes to call blacks monkeys and clowns both here and on you tube. he is probably not black or African which is why he feels threatened when people speak about Moors and Arabs as black AS DO ALL ANCIENT DOCUMENTS.
I totally agree ive never seen a so called if he even is "african american" who goes on african forums and disrespect our people so much.
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Again you resort to distorting my words in a desperate attempt to prove your nonsensical notion that can never hold up! 
ROTFLMAO The only one outed is YOU as the idiot you usually are! YOU are the one guilty of double speaking, not I! Tell me why do you consider a Nigerian person black but not an Indian who is of the same exact complexion, or even an Egyptian who is both of the same complexion AND is a fellow African??!![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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