Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye Enthroned Beneath a Kiosk, Tomb of Anen ca. 1390–1352 B.C. Egypt; Thebes, Sheikh Abd el-Qurna, Tomb of Anen (TT 120), MMA graphic expedition 1931 Medium: Tempera on paper Dimensions: facsimile
^^^ here's an interesting facsimile illustration. mostly obliterated
detail of Nine Bows prisoners at bottom of thrones: ______________________________________________ .
. Below, Similar throned Amenhotep II scene at Tomb of Kheruef TT 192
[thread title Edited 12/12/2022 to include "Nine Bows" + Tomb of Kheruef added 1/1/2023]
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Beautiful wall relief of Pharaoh Amenhotep III and her queen the beautiful Tiye, also pictures of prisoners of different race or ethnicity.Among the prisoners black Kushites and Semite Syrian, Libyan ,Amorite, Hittite.No white and Asian people among the prisoners.It look like the ancient and classical world was ruled by black people and their Metis children.White people are late comer to history.
Pelizaeus wood statue of Pharaoh Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye look like a real portrait.
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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^ LOL Perhaps the same psychological reason why you subliminally try to make sneaky implications in many of your posts about non-black or 'mixed' Eurasian peoples as ancestral to Egyptians but I digress.
What is the purpose of your post anyway?
By the way, the prisoners beneath the feet of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye represent the 'Nine Bows' or nine great enemies of Egypt. Each prisoner represents a distinct ethnic group, yet funny how your lyinass grouped all the obviously black ones under the label of 'Kushite' when they each have their own ethnic label.
The only other point I want to make is that the Libyan and perhaps Amorite prisoners were originally darker than they appear now. I base this not only on the traces of paint that show but also on the fact that there are other contemporary murals which depict them as darker about the same complexion as the Egyptians themselves. The bald-headed Amorite men for example are portrayed as having the same complexion as Tut in one scene, and we've gone over the traces of dark paint found among Tamahu Libyans.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
The fact that the nine bows are the enemies of Egypt does not mean they are not also depicted as prisoners, bound captives as we see their arms are tied. I might accept some of your corrections. However one musn't assume that more obscure names for certian ethnic groups are separate groups from the more familiar names for such groups. It would be helpful if you to discuss some of these groups and the others names some go by. I would expect even veteran ES members not to recognize every term you are using without looking some up.
The Nine Bows vary from text to text. You have identified the glyphs here apparently here or simply looked up one of the nine bow lists
The more familiar names for such names as
Naharin = Mittani
Sengar = Babylonian
Mentu-nu-setet, Iuntiu-seti, and Irem
= could all be probably described as tribes of Kushites, indeed they all have the same garb Nobody uses any of these as regular terms in Egyptology, please stop being purposefully arcane, high-brow and over-complicating. I would have respected your comment if you had had more explantion of alternate names not just listing names as if another name used is entirely wrong. Having said this I did make some mistakes also but I also put question marks on some to begin with
Tehenu are Libyans
Sengar = Babylonian
Kefti = Cretan
I will now redo this according to more known terms my best guesses with terms peple are more familiar with using some of your info
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass fool: The fact that the nine bows are the enemies of Egypt does not mean they are not also depicted as prisoners, bound captives as we see their arms are tied.
If you notice, the captives are all have their necks bounded by Nile lotus stems. It's apparent to anyone familiar with Egyptian art and spiritual beliefs that the image of the subdued 9 bows is an execration image meant to magically keep the 9 bows at bay and is NOT an actual depiction of live prisoners.
quote:I might accept some of your corrections. However one mustn't assume that more obscure names for certain ethnic groups are separate groups from the more familiar names for such groups. It would be helpful if you to discuss some of these groups and the others names some go by. I would expect even veteran ES members not to recognize every term you are using without looking some up.
NO, what YOU assume is that the Egyptians applied the same terminology that is popular among laymen and even many Egyptologists.
quote:The Nine Bows vary from text to text. You have identified the glyphs here apparently here or simply looked up one of the nine bow lists.
You are correct. The Nine Bows are a dynamic group that changes from one time period to the next and whatever political relationship Kmt had with its foreign neighbors.
quote:The more familiar names for such names as
Naharin = Mittani
Sengar = Babylonian
Mentu-nu-setet, Iuntiu-seti, and Irem
= could all be probably described as tribes of Kushites, indeed they all have the same garb Nobody uses any of these as regular terms in Egyptology, please stop being purposefully arcane, high-brow and over-complicating...
NO. Because again, 'Kushite' proper is the name of ONE ethnic group. The other three groups you incorrectly say are 'Kushite tribes' are entirely different ethnic groups. These other groups may be allies of, or even under the suzerainty of the Kushites, and they may be closely related to the Kushites but they were NOT Kushites. Your hypocrisy is exposed when you don't bother to lump the Naharin, Shasu, and Sen-gar under a single moniker, say 'Asiatic', even though these people are also dressed similarly and share a territory!
quote:I would have respected your comment if you had had more explanation of alternate names not just listing names as if another name used is entirely wrong. Having said this I did make some mistakes also but I also put question marks on some to begin with.
Tehenu are Libyans
Sengar = Babylonian
Kefti = Cretan
I will now redo this according to more known terms my best guesses with terms people are more familiar with using some of your info.
Nah, twit. You're just mad cuz your lying hypocritical-ass got busted. You group all the overtly black groups into a 'Kushite' group not the Asiatics. Lyinass productions is once again flushed down the toilet. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^^^^ asshole, they are all depicted with the exact same clothing, obviously more related to each other and by geography than the various Asiatics. And asshole, I included specific names in parenthesis
stop cheerleading and pretending to be a black militant
[1] the Shat, [2] the Sekhet-lam, [3] the Pedtiu-Shu, [4] the Tehennu, [5] the Iuntiu-Seti, [6] the Mentiu-nu-Setet, [7] the Hau-Nebut, [8] the Ta Shema [9] the Ta Mehu
" The Sed-Festival pavilion of Amenhotep III portrayed each of the Bows as a captive figure with his arms tied behind his back. Next to each is an oval medallion upon which the name of that people which each represents is given. The faces vary in their portrayal according to their locality. The list is considerably different from previous examples. There is no mention of either half of Egypt
Without attempting to be too specific as to the location and identity of each, they are placed in geographical orientation to Egypt proper by Uphill as follows:
[1] The Shat were apparently among the southern-most of the bows, lying in the vicinity of the Third Cataract [south of Kush], according to evidence from Thutmose III and a series of alabaster statuettes.
[2] The Sekhet-Iam seem to have occupied the oasis land to the west of central Egypt, though how far north or south they were located we do not know. On their immediate eastern border lived ...
[3] the Pedtiu-Shu, possibly on into the Sinai Peninsula, though this is not for certain. They are certainly a Bedouin people, and would have inhabited the Red Sea hill country. [This would mean the people straddled the Nile.]
[4] There is no question about the Tehennu, who were the Libyans on the west and north of Egypt, and they occupied the land between the Pedtiu-Shu and the Mediterranean Sea on the west border of Egypt.
[5] The Iuntiu-Seti are a southern people, often depicted as Blacks, and they occupied Nubia. [John, would these be our Medjay?]
[6] The Mentiu nu-Setet originally were placed in southwestern Canaan, [<<<THIS IS IMPORTANT, I THINK] ... though at times their territory was expanded to include the coast up to Ugarit and Alalakh. Sometimes, too, it was reduced again, as for example during the time of Ahmose son of Ebana who identified the Asiatics slain by his master at Avaris and Sharuhen as Hyksos.
[7] The Hau-nebut are the most difficult of all the bows to place. Uphill concludes after a lengthy examination that they were to be found on the coast of Lebanon at first. Later, their territory was expanded around the northeast Mediterranean coast ultimately to include the Aegean Islands.
[8] and [9] not discussed.
[Beyond 9] During the later Middle Kingdom, the Meshwesh people were added to the western enemies.
John, the reason I put up this particular post is I'm wondering if you can make heads or tails of your "TWO TRIBES" of the MEDJAY, and the names mentioned for the NINE BOWS?
John, I don't want to impose... but you did *start it* by listing those two really obscure tribal names. And it's been nothing but trouble since !!!
George
FINAL NOTE FROM THE URL: Under the rule of other kings of the New Kingdom, such as Amenhotep II, the Nine Bows included Assyria, Babylon, and other distant peoples, over whom they never in fact were able to exercise sovereignty. By the late Dynastic Period the names of the Nine Bows had lost completely their specific geographical locations and were used during Ptolemaic times for distant lands of which the Egyptians had heard, but with whom they probably had had few dealings.
quote:The Iuntiu-Seti are a southern people, often depicted as Blacks, and they occupied Nubia
This is the same Anu being talked about here.
quote:"The Aunu People. Besides these types, belonging to the north and east, There is the aboriginal race of the Anu, or Aunu, people (written with three pillars), who became a part of the historic inhabitants. The subject ramifies too doubtfully if we include all single-pillar names, but looking for the Aunu, written with the three pillars, we find that they occupied Southern Egypt and Nubia, and the name is also applied in Sinai and Libya. As to the Southern Egyptians, we have the most essential document, a portrait of a chief, Tera-neter, roughly modeled in relief in green glazed faience, found in the early temple at Abydos. Preceding his name, his address is given on this earliest of visiting cards, "Palace of the Aunu in Hermen city, Tera-neter." Hemen was the name of the god of Tuphium (Lanz., Dict, 544), 13 miles south of Luqsor. Erment, opposite to it, was the place of Aunu of the south, Aunu Menti. The next place in the south is Aunti (Gebeleyn), and beyond that Aunyt-seni (Esneh).
One of the players in the formation of early Kemet itself now depicted as one of the nine bows in a later era,and I have always said we should use the proper names of those people whenever possible for when we forever go on to lump and dump them it causes confusion.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass fool: The fact that the nine bows are the enemies of Egypt does not mean they are not also depicted as prisoners, bound captives as we see their arms are tied.
If you notice, the captives are all have their necks bounded by Nile lotus stems. It's apparent to anyone familiar with Egyptian art and spiritual beliefs that the image of the subdued 9 bows is an execration image meant to magically keep the 9 bows at bay and is NOT an actual depiction of live prisoners.
quote:I might accept some of your corrections. However one mustn't assume that more obscure names for certain ethnic groups are separate groups from the more familiar names for such groups. It would be helpful if you to discuss some of these groups and the others names some go by. I would expect even veteran ES members not to recognize every term you are using without looking some up.
NO, what YOU assume is that the Egyptians applied the same terminology that is popular among laymen and even many Egyptologists.
quote:The Nine Bows vary from text to text. You have identified the glyphs here apparently here or simply looked up one of the nine bow lists.
You are correct. The Nine Bows are a dynamic group that changes from one time period to the next and whatever political relationship Kmt had with its foreign neighbors.
quote:The more familiar names for such names as
Naharin = Mittani
Sengar = Babylonian
Mentu-nu-setet, Iuntiu-seti, and Irem
= could all be probably described as tribes of Kushites, indeed they all have the same garb Nobody uses any of these as regular terms in Egyptology, please stop being purposefully arcane, high-brow and over-complicating...
NO. Because again, 'Kushite' proper is the name of ONE ethnic group. The other three groups you incorrectly say are 'Kushite tribes' are entirely different ethnic groups. These other groups may be allies of, or even under the suzerainty of the Kushites, and they may be closely related to the Kushites but they were NOT Kushites. Your hypocrisy is exposed when you don't bother to lump the Naharin, Shasu, and Sen-gar under a single moniker, say 'Asiatic', even though these people are also dressed similarly and share a territory!
quote:I would have respected your comment if you had had more explanation of alternate names not just listing names as if another name used is entirely wrong. Having said this I did make some mistakes also but I also put question marks on some to begin with.
Tehenu are Libyans
Sengar = Babylonian
Kefti = Cretan
I will now redo this according to more known terms my best guesses with terms people are more familiar with using some of your info.
Nah, twit. You're just mad cuz your lying hypocritical-ass got busted. You group all the overtly black groups into a 'Kushite' group not the Asiatics. Lyinass productions is once again flushed down the toilet.
Exactly! You were on to her ''I will now redo this (...)'' red herring. The troll was butt hurt from the corrections and tried to sweep her exposed phuckups under the rug and phucked up even more with her atrocious labelling (e.g., continuing to name everything that walks and looks black ''Kushites'').
Notice that the lioness always makes thread with other peoples' information. There are no fresh departures from pre-existing research, no original hypotheses, no nothing, other than plagiarizing, a never ending stream of hot phuckups and relentless trolling!
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: There are no fresh departures from pre-existing research, no original hypotheses, no nothing, other than plagiarizing, a never ending stream of hot phuckups and relentless trolling! [/QB]
List one original hypotheses you have one fresh departure from pre-existing research. And put a dumb animatefd smiley face at the end
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: There are no fresh departures from pre-existing research, no original hypotheses, no nothing, other than plagiarizing, a never ending stream of hot phuckups and relentless trolling! [/QB]
List one original hypotheses you have one fresh departure from pre-existing research. And put a dumb animatefd smiley face at the end
also stop swining on Defruityt's ball sack who was already swine-ing on AlTak's ball sack
If I got upset over you flies buzzing there would be no progress. But because I am not affected I will actaully update my thread to better information instead of being pride hurt. Nobody else does that on this site. Sweetnet for example cheerleading a cheeleader because he got hurt lumping Shasu
AlTak and dana know a lot but the thing they do I don't like is they sometimes use more obscure terms and don't explain them. That's a way of intentionally excluding laymen from learning on this site. Dana for example will often use an old spelling for certain African tribes that you hardly ever see. When other people try to research it they sometimes can't find the information because ther is more information written about it with one letter different. Djefruity for example often doesn't do his own research and parrots dana or AlTak with the obscure spellings.
The better way to do things is instead of trying to be the go to authority and throw people off by using lesser known spellings from 19th century books or obscure sub clans is to leave those names in but in parenthesis put in alternate names. That's what encyclopedias do. They do that to help people understand rather than trying to be the leader of an exclusive club of I know more than you.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: List one original hypotheses you have one fresh departure from pre-existing research. And put a dumb animatefd smiley face at the end
You mean, examples of fresh departures from pre-existing research, like when I posted that Nikita paper, and hypothesised that their Neolithic sample from Chad and Niger could represent mtDNA L3e1 and L3e5 + NRY E-Z827 carrying proto (Chado-)Berber speakers?
When I hypothesised that L3k in Northern Africa and the Amarna family alleles analyzed by DNAconsultant, correlate with Upper Palaeolithic fossils, like Nazlet Khater?
When I hypothesised why Elam wasn't placed among Ham's offspring in the mind of biblical authors a few days ago, using state of the art discoveries involving the Karun river and its biblical correlate (Gihon)?
Or perhaps when I predicted that there was a Middle palaeolithic separation of mtDNA L carriers and M and N carriers before OOA, way before Fu et al 2013 confirmed it using Upper Palaeolithic aDNA?
You must be kidding me. Just because you're too dumb and pre-occupied with trolling and plagiarizing to recognize when I connect the previously unconnected scientific dots, doesn't mean that I'm not posting them.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:The Iuntiu-Seti are a southern people, often depicted as Blacks, and they occupied Nubia
This is the same Anu being talked about here.
quote:"The Aunu People. Besides these types, belonging to the north and east, There is the aboriginal race of the Anu, or Aunu, people (written with three pillars), who became a part of the historic inhabitants. The subject ramifies too doubtfully if we include all single-pillar names, but looking for the Aunu, written with the three pillars, we find that they occupied Southern Egypt and Nubia, and the name is also applied in Sinai and Libya. As to the Southern Egyptians, we have the most essential document, a portrait of a chief, Tera-neter, roughly modeled in relief in green glazed faience, found in the early temple at Abydos. Preceding his name, his address is given on this earliest of visiting cards, "Palace of the Aunu in Hermen city, Tera-neter." Hemen was the name of the god of Tuphium (Lanz., Dict, 544), 13 miles south of Luqsor. Erment, opposite to it, was the place of Aunu of the south, Aunu Menti. The next place in the south is Aunti (Gebeleyn), and beyond that Aunyt-seni (Esneh).
One of the players in the formation of early Kemet itself now depicted as one of the nine bows in a later era,and I have always said we should use the proper names of those people whenever possible for when we forever go on to lump and dump them it causes confusion.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
This is the same Anu being talked about here.
where is your connection between The Iuntiu-Seti and Anu?
Also the quote on Anu by Petrie is not supported by current Egyptology
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I couldn't care less what you accept or expect.
I post for intelligent people wanting accuracy in THEIR information. The days of dumbing down for Black people are over.
I don't see any but you complaining and even you benefitted from my pinpoint accuracy of the names written in Egyptian hieroglyphics. You're welcome.
DJ's commentary are apt and appropriate on this. No A - B conversation involved. This is a public thread not a PM. Any and all comments from any and every body are welcome (at least as far as what I contribute).
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
I might accept some of your corrections. However one musn't assume that more obscure names for certian ethnic groups are separate groups from the more familiar names for such groups.
I would expect even veteran ES members not to recognize every term you are using without looking some up.
Nobody uses any of these as regular terms in Egyptology, please stop being purposefully arcane, high-brow and over-complicating.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
When looking at the Iuntiu-seti hieroglyphic you can see its a symbol associated with the Intyw (alternate spelling) of the hills east of the Egyptian Nile.
The Irem are a Nehesy people not an "Asiatic" one.
Nu Stet is certain for those labelled Mentu but Mentu itself is hard to make out in the image but they too are a Nehesy people although at times stet is also associated with "Asiatic" desert dwellers.
Archive search some of these names to see earlier remarks on them by various EgyptSearch members.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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^ Yes Tukuler, your clarity is always appreciated. Plus, I was about to say that the Iuntu was another variation of the Intyw. I know the Irem inhabited the Upper Nubian valley, though what about the Mentu Nu Stet? By the way, I believe the word 'set' means bow and stet means speedy one. Is this correct?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Exactly! You were on to her ''I will now redo this (...)'' red herring. The troll was butt hurt from the corrections and tried to sweep her exposed phuckups under the rug and phucked up even more with her atrocious labelling (e.g., continuing to name everything that walks and looks black ''Kushites'').
Notice that the lioness always makes thread with other peoples' information. There are no fresh departures from pre-existing research, no original hypotheses, no nothing, other than plagiarizing, a never ending stream of hot phuckups and relentless trolling!
Exactly. Note her typical strawman accusation that I am "cheering" for Tukuler. Tukuler merely corrected her labeling but I am the one called out her racist hypocrisy of group all the blacks together under 'Kushites' but not all the Asiatics together.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] I couldn't care less what you accept or expect.
I post for intelligent people wanting accuracy in THEIR information. The days of dumbing down for Black people are over.
I tend to know how to find and check things but for the education of other laymen who might read your posts there is no need to dumb down just as an encyclopedia would do add in parenthesis alternate named and spellings. Who ever reads something about Sen-gar ? Nobody knows who that refers to. It seems to be Babylonian.
Sen-gar (Sengar, Babylonian, Akkadian. Amorite, modern day Iraq)
I could be wrong but I doubt anybody here recognized that term off the top of their head. There are also new people reading for the first time. Adding info is not dumbing down it's wising up. Stop being elitist
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
I don't see any but you complaining and even you benefitted from my pinpoint accuracy of the names written in Egyptian hieroglyphics. You're welcome.
What about these terms mentioned in another forum? Which are more applicable to this particular Amenhotep III example? Some are varients of the terms you used, I don't know what all the correspondences would be but for a few. I'm going to guess that these aren't in a set order like the herd of Ra
[1] the Shat, [2] the Sekhet-lam, [3] the Pedtiu-Shu, [4] the Tehennu, [5] the Iuntiu-Seti, [6] the Mentiu-nu-Setet, [7] the Hau-Nebut, [8] the Ta Shema [9] the Ta Mehu
your list:
a) Kefti b) Irem c) Naharin d) Kush e) Sen-gar f) Shasu g) Mentu-nu-setet h)Tjehenu i) Iuntiu-seti
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^^ When will you get it through your numbskull that the 9 Bows are not a static group but a dynamic one whose members change depending on the time and political situation Egypt has with her neighbors?!
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,: asshole, they are all depicted with the exact same clothing, obviously more related to each other and by geography than the various Asiatics. And asshole, I included specific names in parenthesis.
Twit, the Sen-gar, Naharin, and Shasu are also depicted in the same type clothing and actually inhabit a geography SMALLER than the Nubian region! Or did you forget that the Fertile Crescent is actually smaller than the entire Nubian territory?
quote:stop cheerleading and pretending to be a black militant
B|tch who is pretending to black other than YOU?! And exactly what is so "militant" about what I said in calling out your pigsh|t?? LOL
As for "cheerleading", I didn't cheer Tukuler but made my own observations on the crap you posted.
quote:This is a conversation between A and B
C your way out of it.
Where did you hear that saying, from the black girls in your school ground? LOL As Tukuler said, this is a public forum where every post is free for public scrutiny. Where did
[1] the Shat, [2] the Sekhet-lam, [3] the Pedtiu-Shu, [4] the Tehennu, [5] the Iuntiu-Seti, [6] the Mentiu-nu-Setet, [7] the Hau-Nebut, [8] the Ta Shema [9] the Ta Mehu
" The Sed-Festival pavilion of Amenhotep III portrayed each of the Bows as a captive figure with his arms tied behind his back. Next to each is an oval medallion upon which the name of that people which each represents is given. The faces vary in their portrayal according to their locality. The list is considerably different from previous examples. There is no mention of either half of Egypt
Without attempting to be too specific as to the location and identity of each, they are placed in geographical orientation to Egypt proper by Uphill as follows:
[1] The Shat were apparently among the southern-most of the bows, lying in the vicinity of the Third Cataract [south of Kush], according to evidence from Thutmose III and a series of alabaster statuettes.
[2] The Sekhet-Iam seem to have occupied the oasis land to the west of central Egypt, though how far north or south they were located we do not know. On their immediate eastern border lived ...
[3] the Pedtiu-Shu, possibly on into the Sinai Peninsula, though this is not for certain. They are certainly a Bedouin people, and would have inhabited the Red Sea hill country. [This would mean the people straddled the Nile.]
[4] There is no question about the Tehennu, who were the Libyans on the west and north of Egypt, and they occupied the land between the Pedtiu-Shu and the Mediterranean Sea on the west border of Egypt.
[5] The Iuntiu-Seti are a southern people, often depicted as Blacks, and they occupied Nubia. [John, would these be our Medjay?]
[6] The Mentiu nu-Setet originally were placed in southwestern Canaan, [<<<THIS IS IMPORTANT, I THINK] ... though at times their territory was expanded to include the coast up to Ugarit and Alalakh. Sometimes, too, it was reduced again, as for example during the time of Ahmose son of Ebana who identified the Asiatics slain by his master at Avaris and Sharuhen as Hyksos.
[7] The Hau-nebut are the most difficult of all the bows to place. Uphill concludes after a lengthy examination that they were to be found on the coast of Lebanon at first. Later, their territory was expanded around the northeast Mediterranean coast ultimately to include the Aegean Islands.
[8] and [9] not discussed.
[Beyond 9] During the later Middle Kingdom, the Meshwesh people were added to the western enemies.
John, the reason I put up this particular post is I'm wondering if you can make heads or tails of your "TWO TRIBES" of the MEDJAY, and the names mentioned for the NINE BOWS?
John, I don't want to impose... but you did *start it* by listing those two really obscure tribal names. And it's been nothing but trouble since !!!
George
FINAL NOTE FROM THE URL: Under the rule of other kings of the New Kingdom, such as Amenhotep II, the Nine Bows included Assyria, Babylon, and other distant peoples, over whom they never in fact were able to exercise sovereignty. By the late Dynastic Period the names of the Nine Bows had lost completely their specific geographical locations and were used during Ptolemaic times for distant lands of which the Egyptians had heard, but with whom they probably had had few dealings.
Well at least you cite the source for the above for a change. As I told you, the members of the 9 Bows depend on the time period and political situation. There are some interesting things I want to point out about the cited passage:
For [5](Iuntiu-seti) the person asks John if these are Medjay. The answer is no. The Medjay were an entirely different ethnicity from the Iuntiu. Though before New Kingdom times the Medjay were listed as one of the 9 bows in various lists, at the very beginning of the New Kingdom the Medjay were close allies of the Egyptians in their war against the Kushites with some scholars even suggesting that the 17th dynasty was part Medjay. The Iuntiu on the other hand were close allies of the Kushites and even during a campaign against the Kushites, Thutmose I and his Medjay allies killed and hung the body of an Iuntiu prince on the prow of their barque.
For [6] Mentiu nu-Setet, I find it striking that the folks in your citation describe them as Asiatics when the enemy labeled Mentiu nu-Setet seen in this thread looks Nhsi. Is this an error on the part authors in the passage or Tukuler??
As for [8] and [9]-- Ta Shema and Ta Mehu-- respectively, I find it interesting as well as funny that they are not discussed. Why is that?? Could it be because these are Egyptians?!! Ta-Shema is Upper Egypt and Ta Mehu is Lower Egypt. It is a fact that during times of political upheaval--specifically rebellion against the pharaoh-- that Lower or Upper Egyptians or both could be listed in the 9 bows! This fact is illustrated quite well by Dr. Mario Beatty in his lecture on the word xsy or khasiu which means 'wretched' and thanks to racist Egyptology is notoriously associated with Nubians even though Egyptians applied the same adjective for other Egyptians especially those who rebel against authority!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Exactly! You were on to her ''I will now redo this (...)'' red herring. The troll was butt hurt from the corrections and tried to sweep her exposed phuckups under the rug and phucked up even more with her atrocious labelling (e.g., continuing to name everything that walks and looks black ''Kushites'').
Notice that the lioness always makes thread with other peoples' information. There are no fresh departures from pre-existing research, no original hypotheses, no nothing, other than plagiarizing, a never ending stream of hot phuckups and relentless trolling!
Exactly. Note her typical strawman accusation that I am "cheering" for Tukuler. Tukuler merely corrected her labeling but I am the one called out her racist hypocrisy of group all the blacks together under 'Kushites' but not all the Asiatics together.
total hypocrisy from cheerleader Djefruity and Sweentet the latter who has a thread called:
" Is Kmtian wavy and straight hair the only trait not shared with Ancient Nubians? "
^^^^ Not saying I don't use it but these term "nubian" is most sweeping of all, well beyond "Kushite". Some posters even complain racism when the word is used.
moe and curly over here
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^ Wrong again, dumb trick! That's because when Swenet and I use the label 'Nubian' we mean it in its original context which is for peoples who live in the region south of Egypt. It's actually NOT racist unless someone uses the term for 'black' people as if the Egyptians were not black. Nubia is not a polity nor is it an ethnicity; it is a region pure and simple. And it is the best modern term we have for the Egyptian Nhsy since both words are used the same even though the etymology of 'Nubia' is still unclear as it is an exonym coined by the Romans though it may be based on the Egyptian word for gold 'nubt'.
Therefore, your pathetic lyinass attempt to project your guilt of hypocrisy on to us is another flushed product. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:When looking at the Iuntiu-seti hieroglyphic you can see its a symbol associated with the Intyw (alternate spelling) of the hills east of the Egyptian Nile.
And Lioness like the above Iuntiu-seti= Aunyt-seni= Esneh, Imn = Amen = Amun sometimes I&A became interchangeable I guess,the below is from a site of a critique of Petrie this is what I found
quote: The above translation from the web page is wrong on all counts, although the name of the individual in the figure standing at left comes close. His name (shaded in red) is transliterated as tri-nTr. It can be rendered as Terinetjer (as one example) and can be translated as “One who worships the gods.” This is his name, not a title. The translation of the glyphs I’ve shaded green are still the subject of dispute but the current transliteration is nxn.w (MacArthur 2010: 136), which can be rendered as Nekhenw. It is believed that this is the name of an estate of which Terinetjer may have been in charge (ibid); more on that presently.
The translation from the web page breaks the next set of glyphs into two lines: “of the god Seth / Net Annu-u: ‘of the Cities of the Annu People’s.’” This is incorrect. In my own image this is the area I’ve color-coded blue, and it’s simply a cadrat or square of glyphs all of which belong together when read. The correct translation is Menhet (transliterated mnH[.t]), and is the name of a town. It’s location is not known today but it was probably the nearest settlement of size to the estate called nxn.w (Nekhenw).
The word “Anu” or “Aunu” or other variations does not appear anywhere on this plaque. The web page to which I’ve been referring (see link in opening paragraph) quotes Petrie from his The Making of Egypt:
The main point of the above quote from the link is to make Kemet's early populous kinda fuzzy and and less Afrocentric,but he would still have to deal with Amélineau below even "if" the above is correct and Petrie missed-up Tera Nater which I am not sure he did.
From Amélineau: Anu the city of Heliopolis (Coptic; On) Anu Meh Anu of the north (Heliopolis) Anu Shemo Anu of the south (Hermonthis/Ermant) Anu Monti Anu of Hermonthis Anu Tem the Anu of Tem (Hermonthis) Anu Re the Anu of Re Afdu Ikhu the Four Ancestors (of the Anu) Ugrit Goddess of the Duat of Anu Djandjané Anu the Anu Court of Judges: Tem; Shu; Tefnut; Osiris; Thoth Anu n Ptoh the Anu of Ptah (Denderah) Anu n Nut the Anu of Nut (Denderah)
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
No Bruh, thank YOU. Your original post shed much light and taught me what I did not know before.
- - -
The Mentiu-nu-Setet are hard to pin down. Unlike the Lioness supposes I have to constantly refer back my source materials.
It looks like the Mentiu-nu-Setet are not any one particular ethnic group but a term for shepherds or cattle herders in either "Sudan" or "Syria."
Both Mentiu and Nu can mean beduin, i.e., mobile shepherds/herdsmen. Setet usually connotes "Asia" or the "Asiatic," but there's a goddess of that name who's part of trinity at the first cataract.
So there you go DJ!
And thank you for putting this thread on track. BTW. The "vine" yoking the "captives" in place linking them neck to neck is symbolic of unified Egypt, papyrus and lotus entwined. See each Nehesi has the Upper Egypt lotus while others have the Lower Egypt papyrus dangling before them representing proximity to which Egypt they'd likely attack first.
- - -
quote:the Lioness wrote:
AlTak and dana know a lot but the thing they do I don't like is they sometimes use more obscure terms and don't explain them. That's a way of intentionally excluding laymen from learning on this site. Dana for example will often use an old spelling for certain African tribes that you hardly ever see. When other people try to research it they sometimes can't find the information because ther is more information written about it with one letter different. Djefruity for example often doesn't do his own research and parrots dana or AlTak with the obscure spellings.
Except for your assumptions about elitism you are right about this and I appreciate the times in the past where you've made my writings more accessable to the masses.
However, I am here to answer questions or clarify. Those wanting to understand must not be afraid to ask.
Then of course you do know it was wrong to lump all the Nehesi as Kushites when the document itself doesn't. It made as much sense as would lumping USAmericans, Australians, Canadians, and white South Africans as British. And even that'd be more right than lumping various unrelated ancient Sudanis.
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Amenhotep III and and Queen Tiye. PELIZAEUS-MUSEUM Hildeheim 53 a-b made of wood, provenance unknown
Relief head of Queen Tiye, wife of Amenhotep III, 18th dynasty, 1386-1340 BC.
^^^^ no Amenhotep III here but a relief we rarely see another here:
Relief Fragment representing Queen Tiye Tiye (c. 1398 BC – 1338 BC. She became the Great Royal Wife of the Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep III and matriarch of the Amarna family. Also under her son Akhenaten, she played a political role, the extent is not clear.
posted
Face from a Composite Statue, probably Queen Tiye
Description
This quartzite head once belonged to a composite statue made of several different materials. Based on the color of the stone (red being the conventional color for men), the owner was originally identified as Akhenaten. However, the subject seems to have worn the standard tripartite wig, which frames the face with two thick hanks of hair while a third section hangs down the back. This wig and the very close similarity of the face to known images of Akhenaten's mother, Queen Tiye, make it virtually certain that she is represented here. The sensitive modeling of the face is typical of the workshop of the sculptor Thutmose at site of Amarna. The existence of gypsum plaster casts excavated in Thutmose's studio suggests that this may have been part of a group statue depicting Akhenaten with his parents, Tiye, and Amenhotep III.
posted
It's as if some artifacts can't stand alone. Certain other artifacts always have to be brought in to "correct" the first ones. Doing that suggests there is something that the first artifacts are lacking in some way. We can only deal with certain artifacts. Other artifcacts need back up artifacts and photos of people in case you might get the wrong idea
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Thanks Tukuler
quote:When looking at the Iuntiu-seti hieroglyphic you can see its a symbol associated with the Intyw (alternate spelling) of the hills east of the Egyptian Nile.
And Lioness like the above Iuntiu-seti= Aunyt-seni= Esneh, Imn = Amen = Amun sometimes I&A became interchangeable I guess,the below is from a site of a critique of Petrie this is what I found
quote: The above translation from the web page is wrong on all counts, although the name of the individual in the figure standing at left comes close. His name (shaded in red) is transliterated as tri-nTr. It can be rendered as Terinetjer (as one example) and can be translated as “One who worships the gods.” This is his name, not a title. The translation of the glyphs I’ve shaded green are still the subject of dispute but the current transliteration is nxn.w (MacArthur 2010: 136), which can be rendered as Nekhenw. It is believed that this is the name of an estate of which Terinetjer may have been in charge (ibid); more on that presently.
The translation from the web page breaks the next set of glyphs into two lines: “of the god Seth / Net Annu-u: ‘of the Cities of the Annu People’s.’” This is incorrect. In my own image this is the area I’ve color-coded blue, and it’s simply a cadrat or square of glyphs all of which belong together when read. The correct translation is Menhet (transliterated mnH[.t]), and is the name of a town. It’s location is not known today but it was probably the nearest settlement of size to the estate called nxn.w (Nekhenw).
The word “Anu” or “Aunu” or other variations does not appear anywhere on this plaque. The web page to which I’ve been referring (see link in opening paragraph) quotes Petrie from his The Making of Egypt:
The main point of the above quote from the link is to make Kemet's early populous kinda fuzzy and and less Afrocentric,but he would still have to deal with Amélineau below even "if" the above is correct and Petrie messed-up Tera Nater which I am not sure he did.
From Amélineau: Anu the city of Heliopolis (Coptic; On) Anu Meh Anu of the north (Heliopolis) Anu Shemo Anu of the south (Hermonthis/Ermant) Anu Monti Anu of Hermonthis Anu Tem the Anu of Tem (Hermonthis) Anu Re the Anu of Re Afdu Ikhu the Four Ancestors (of the Anu) Ugrit Goddess of the Duat of Anu Djandjané Anu the Anu Court of Judges: Tem; Shu; Tefnut; Osiris; Thoth Anu n Ptoh the Anu of Ptah (Denderah) Anu n Nut the Anu of Nut (Denderah)
Émile Amélineau (1850 – 12 January 1915 at Châteaudun) was a French Coptologist, archaeologist and Egyptologist. His scholarly reputation was established as an editor of previously unpublished Coptic texts. But his reputation was destroyed by his work as a digger at Abydos, after Flinders Petrie re-excavated the site and showed how much destruction Amélineau had wrought.
But his work as an excavator has attracted strong criticism, not least from Flinders Petrie, the founder of modern scientific Egyptology. Amélineau dug at Abydos from 1894 to 1898. Petrie was awarded the concession to dig there by Gaston Maspero, head of the Antiquities Service, after Amélineau had declared that there was nothing more to be found there. Petrie was appalled at what had been done, and did not mince his words. He wrote:
"During four years there had been the scandal of Amelineau's work at the Royal Tombs of Abydos. He had been given a concession to work there for five years; no plans were kept (a few incorrect ones were made later), there was no record of where things were found, no useful publication. He boasted that he had reduced to chips the pieces of stone vases which he did not care to remove, and burnt up the remains of the woodwork of the 1st dynasty in his kitchen.
Jane A. Hill has said that "Amelineau was not an archaeologist and basically plundered the cemetery in search of goods he could sell to antiquities collectors."
________________________________________________
Amelineau's theories of the Anu are not supported by current Egyptology. Current books on ancient usually don't even mention it. It's out of Amelineau imagination. _______________________
same word, different references:
Neferkamin Anu may have been the second king of the eighth dynasty of ancient Egypt during the First Intermediate Period. As such he would have reigned over the Memphite region. His name is attested on the Abydos King List, and also in the Turin Canon of Kings where he is attributed a reign of 2 years, 1 month and 1 day. Any detail about Neferkamin's reign is lost in a lacuna of the Turin Canon.
_______________________________________
In Sumerian mythology, Anu (also An; (from Sumerian *An = sky, heaven) was a sky-god, the god of heaven, lord of constellations, king of gods, spirits and demons, and dwelt in the highest heavenly regions. It was believed that he had the power to judge those who had committed crimes, and that he had created the stars as soldiers to destroy the wicked. His attribute was the royal tiara. His attendant and minister of state was the god Ilabrat.
He was one of the oldest gods in the Sumerian pantheon and part of a triad including Enlil (god of the air) and Enki (god of water). He was called Anu by the later Akkadians in Babylonian culture. By virtue of being the first figure in a triad consisting of Anu, Enlil, and Enki (also known as Ea), Anu came to be regarded as the father and at first, king of the gods.
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Lioness keeping the Sumerian Anu out of this for a second,are you saying that the Iuntiu/Anu did not exist nor the old kingdom names for their cities?
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posted
^ Actually the Sumerian term is An period. Anu is the Akkadian name for the deity. Neither of which has anything to do with the Egyptian Anu as far as I'm aware of.
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quote:Actually the Sumerian term is An period. Anu is the Akkadian name for the deity. Neither of which has anything to do with the Egyptian Anu as far as I'm aware of.
Perhaps so but my original point was the Iuntiu-seti/Anu were among the founders given the place names of some of their cities such as
quote:The name Heliopolis is of ancient Greek origin meaning city of the sun as it was the principal seat of worship of the sun god Ra and the closely related deity Atum. Originally, this ancient city was known by the Egyptians as Iunu, from the transliteration ỉwnw,[5] probably pronounced *Āwanu, and means "(Place of) Pillars". In biblical Hebrew Heliopolis was referred to as, Ôn or Āwen .
Modern scholars rarely use the original names of Kemitic cities in publication they substitute Greek and Arabic names for such ex the ancient city of Waset became Luxor Nowe or Wo'se became Thebes and so on,now we know what the Iuntiu-seti/Anu looked liked and that they were still very much around by New Kingdom times, correction made by Tukuler fleshed out by you,in this Lioness must be credited for the link.
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The fact that An is used on place names does not Émile Amélineau's theories of an early Egyptian people called "Anu" have any credibility. You Might ask Tukuler if he thinks the theory has any credibility. I don't see a basis for it and Amélineau had a bad rep for incompetance. As I had quoted before:
Neferkamin Anu may have been the second king of the eighth dynasty of ancient Egypt during the First Intermediate Period.
^^^ The word Anu there but part of a name but unrelated to Amélineau's concept.
^^^^ Amélineau is mentioned but "Anu" is not mentioned.
Appealing theories are not always true. Van Sertima revived this forgotten theory and it's been recylced over and over again since but not really checked out too much
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Lioness your link when it does mentioned cities it's in Greek form not Kemitic when culture groups are mentioned is done in lettering such as A group in case you missed it.
quote:quote: The name Heliopolis is of ancient Greek origin meaning city of the sun as it was the principal seat of worship of the sun god Ra and the closely related deity Atum. Originally, this ancient city was known by the Egyptians as Iunu, from the transliteration ỉwnw,[5] probably pronounced *Āwanu, and means "(Place of) Pillars". In biblical Hebrew Heliopolis was referred to as, Ôn or Āwen .
Not from Van Sertima,Petrie or Amelineau as matter of fact you reignite my interest in them by posting this which Tukuler expanded on so the Iuntiu/Ani or Anu and their cities exist btw Petrie dating system is still in use regardless of his short comings. _______Shasu_____Mentu-nu-setet_______Tjehenu______Iuntiu-setiPosts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: you reignite my interest in them by posting this which Tukuler expanded on so the Iuntiu/Ani or Anu and their cities exist btw Petrie dating system is still in use regardless of his short comings.
Neferkamin Anu may have been the second king of the eighth dynasty of ancient Egypt during the First Intermediate Period.
^^^ The word Anu there but part of a name but unrelated to Amélineau's concept.
You are making the same type of assumption here that "Iuntiu/Ani or Anu" , words with the same letters means that anything Amélineau said using the same word is therfore valid.
I could say George Washington had six fingers on his left hand.
That doesn't mean it's true because George Washington was a real person.
Political Frontiers In the Middle Kingdom, Egypt's southernmost border was fixed at Semna, located south of the Second Cataract in an area of narrow gorges and rocky outcroppings, known in Arabic as the Batn el- Hajjar , the "Belly of Stones" (about 68 km. south of the modern Egyptian-Sudanese border). Later in the New Kingdom, Egypt extended her southern border up to the Fourth Cataract, although she exercised military authority further upriver, as far as modern Kurgus (south of Abu Hamed).
The traditional ancient Egyptian name for Nubia was Ta- Seti , "Land of the Bow" (as in "bow and arrow"). Indeed, the Egyptians gave that same name to their southernmost nome which bordered on Nubia, either because it was adjacent to that country, or else because that portion of southern Upper Egypt was originally part of an earlier kingdom of Nubia with the same name, and which would have existed before the unification of Egypt. The Divisions of Nubia For purposes of understanding history and geography, Nubia is divided into two great regions, Lower Nubia and Upper Nubia. Lower Nubia is the northern region extending nearly 400 km. from the First Cataract to the area around Semna and the Second Cataract. Today, it corresponds to the area of southern Egypt and the northern Sudan. Upper Nubia, which is south of Lower Nubia, extends upriver along the Nile to the Sixth Cataract and Khartum. It corresponds to what is today the central Sudan. The Nile River, flowing through this region, is often called the Middle Nile . The Nile flows from south to north, i.e. from the Ethiopian Highlands and modern Uganda to the Mediterranean Sea. However, the geography of Upper Nubia is dominated by a giant bend of the river between the Fifth and Fourth Cataracts, in which the Nile actually turns to the southwest for about 270 km. before turning northward again in its passage to the sea. The area where it flows northward out of the bend and through to the Third Cataract is called the Dongola Reach , named after the Sudanese town of Dongola which dominates this part of the river. The great bend itself can be called the Dongola-Abu Hamed Bend of the Nile. This area, in which the water might be thought of as reversing direction, was highly treacherous to ancient navigation because of the speed of the rushing river here and the many rocky protrusions extending for kilometers along the river bed. Hence, this can be characterized as an area of often intense white water. Nomenclature
Archaeological Names vs. Political Names In the study of Nubian history and archaeology, specialists use two kinds of names to refer to the various ancient people and cultures they encounter; these are political names and archaeological names. Political names derive from ancient texts, and they reflect the actual names that the Egyptians, Greeks, or Nubians themselves gave to certain parts of Nubia or to the different Nubian peoples. Archaeological names are those names given to particular cultures or industries which are detectable by archaeology but for which there are no associated ancient names. Thus, there is no way to know what names the people of these cultures gave themselves. Here the archaeologists provide these cultures with either arbitrary (and artificial) designations , e.g.: "A-Group, B-Group" and "X-Group," or they name them according to the archaeological sites in which they were first discovered or which became their main centers, e.g.: "Kerma Culture" (referring to the succession of Nubian cultures found at the city of Kerma).
Sometimes, the archaeological and arbitrary designations are mixed, e.g., the X-Group can also be referred to as the "Ballana Culture," since a main site for this culture is the cemetery of Ballana. Rarely, a political/textual name might combine with an archaeological designation, e.g., Nubadae-people can now be identified with the X-Group. Similarly, it has been suggested (justifiably or not) that the C-Group might be those people which the Egyptians named the Tjemehu (i.e., Libyans of the central Sahara).
Egyptian Names of Nubia All of the lands south and southeast of Egypt (sometimes also including the northeast) the Egyptians called, Ta-netjer, "God's Land." Within this great region, the Egyptians located the different countries and people of Nubia. From the Old Kingdom onward, in addition to Ta-Seti, the Egyptians applied the name Ta- Nehesy as a general designation for Nubia (n.b., nehesy means, "nubian;" Panehesy, "the Nubian" becomes a common personal name, developing into the Biblical name, Phineas). At the same time, Egyptians gave the name Wawat specifically to Lower Nubia. This name derived from one of several Nubian chiefdoms which were located in this region during the late Old Kingdom. A generic designation of the desert nomads of Nubia was the term Iuntiu or Iuntiu-setiu , "Nubian tribesmen (lit. 'bowmen')." The names which the Egyptians used to refer to the various parts of Nubia and its different peoples usually changed depending upon the era and the particular tribal group in a given area.
Elsewhere in the Old Kingdom, the names Irtjet , Zatju , and Kaau were used for particular people and areas of the country. While, previously, they were thought to be in Lower Nubia, David O'Connor has recently made a strong case for locating them in Upper Nubia. The Land of Yam , visited by Harkhuf, Governor of Elephantine, in the late 6th Dynasty, was apparently located around the Fifth or Sixth Cataracts. The Land of Punt was a country located east of Upper Nubia and bordering on the Red Sea (i.e., extending from the highlands to the sea). Since the Old Kingdom, the Egyptians often enjoyed a productive relationship with a Nubian tribal people from the land of Medja , named the Medjay (called the "Pan-Grave People" by archaeologists). As fierce warriors, they were incorporated as mercenaries into the Egyptian army as early as the 6th Dynasty. Later in the New Kingdom, they were employed as the police force in Egypt, and the word medjay became the ancient Egyptian term for "policeman."
From the Middle Kingdom onward, the Egyptians regularly used the name Kush to refer to the powerful independent kingdom based in Upper Nubia, first at Kerma (until that was destroyed by the Egyptians in the sixteenth century BC), thereafter at Napata , then Meroe (pronounced "meroway"). Kush is identified as the Land of Kush in the Holy Bible. Kush's political dependency was the territory of Sha'at (in the region of the Isle of Sai). Other names attested at this time (mostly in execration texts) are: Iryshek, Tua, Imana'a and Ruket . In the eastern mountains were Awshek and Webet- sepat .
In the early 18th Dynasty, the Egyptians also used the name Khenet-hennefer to refer to Kush, especially during the military campaigns of Ahmose and Tuthmosis I. It appears as a general designation of the area of Upper Nubia between the Second and Fourth Cataracts, and designates the region for which the city of Kerma was the center or capital. The name Irem was applied in the 18th Dynasty to the people who apparently lived in the southern reach of the Dongola Bend (i.e., the old territory of Yam). Later in the dynasty, the name Karoy was applied to the vicinity of Napata.
In the Late Period and during the Kingdom of Meroe , the name, Island of Meroe , was given to the triangular stretch of land on the east bank of the Nile, south of the Fifth Cataract. This section, dominated by the city of Meroe, was bordered on the north by the Atbara River, on the west by the Nile, and on the south by the Blue Nile. The Island of Meroe was the heartland of Meroitic civilization and the political and cultural center of the Kingdom of Meroe from ca. 590 BC to AD 300.
" With characteristic thoroughness Sesostris smashed an insurrection of the ' Iuntiu of Nubia' in the sixteenth year of his reign and ruthlessly wiped out their settlements, carrying away their woemn, fouling their wells and setting fire to their grain fields" - The Cambridge Ancient History: Early history of the Middle East ..., Volume 1
posted
You are not looking at what was said earlier that I&A are sometimes interchangeable as with Imn=Amen=Amun Imnhotep= Amenhotep
Heliopolis ancient city was known by the Egyptians as Iunu, from the transliteration ỉwnw,[5] probably pronounced *Āwanu, and means "(Place of) Pillars". In biblical Hebrew Heliopolis was referred to as, Ôn or Āwen . Iunu is Anu
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: You are not looking at what was said earlier that I&A are sometimes interchangeable as with Imn=Amen=Amun Imnhotep= Amenhotep
Heliopolis ancient city was known by the Egyptians as Iunu, from the transliteration ỉwnw,[5] probably pronounced *Āwanu, and means "(Place of) Pillars". In biblical Hebrew Heliopolis was referred to as, Ôn or Āwen . Iunu is Anu
You been shown the translation of the glyphs on that item is wrong. But you don't question Amélineau's theory about what "Anu" refers to because it's disloyal to question anything Van Sertima ever endorsed. Everything he ever said is sacred.
Now instead of trying to investigae the credibility of Amélineau claims you are trying to attach Iuntiu onto his usupported theories, building a house on a faulty foundation.
This is what I call history freestyling
popular with some on this site
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: You are not looking at what was said earlier that I&A are sometimes interchangeable as with Imn=Amen=Amun Imnhotep= Amenhotep
Heliopolis ancient city was known by the Egyptians as Iunu, from the transliteration ỉwnw,[5] probably pronounced *Āwanu, and means "(Place of) Pillars". In biblical Hebrew Heliopolis was referred to as, Ôn or Āwen . Iunu is Anu
It makes sense, if it truly means "come in peace".
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Hope to expand on this later (no promisses). Feel free to add or correct as appropriate. Please careful if quoting so as not to make the thread any wider. Sorry but detail ya know!
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quote:It makes sense, if it truly means "come in peace".
ỉỉ-m-ḥtp *jā-im-ḥātap meaning "the one who comes in peace,
That is perhaps where we get our prayer ending from as in Amen sorry my translator didn't work couldn't read your link..
Lioness was there an ethnic group in Kemet and the lands south of Kemet called Iunu,and are there place names in Kemet bearing the name regardless of Van-Sertima whom I did not reference or Amélineau and Petrie whom I did. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/heliopolis.htm for answers^ look here
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posted
Iuntiu and Iunu may share the same root word 'iun' but they are still different words and both seem to be unrelated to 'an' or 'Anu'.
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quote:Iuntiu and Iunu may share the same root word 'iun' but they are still different words and both seem to be unrelated to 'an' or 'Anu'.
But what do you make of the below ancient city was known by the Egyptians as Iunu, from the transliteration ỉwnw,[5] probably pronounced *Āwanu and means "(Place of) Pillars". In biblical Hebrew Heliopolis was referred to as, Ôn or Āwen .
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posted
One of the three major cities of ancient Egypt, after Thebes and Memphis, Heliopolis, "city of the sun" in Greek, was situated in the area of Tell Hisn on the northwestern outskirts of modern Cairo. The ancient Egyptian name was Iunu, or iwnw, meaning pillar.
The word meaning "pillar" points even more so to the type of object, a part of architecture, that couldn't be confused with a people
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Troll Patrol
quote:It makes sense, if it truly means "come in peace".
ỉỉ-m-ḥtp *jā-im-ḥātap meaning "the one who comes in peace,
That is perhaps where we get our prayer ending from as in Amen sorry my translator didn't work couldn't read your link..
Lioness was there an ethnic group in Kemet and the lands south of Kemet called Iunu,and are there place names in Kemet bearing the name regardless of Van-Sertima whom I did not reference or Amélineau and Petrie whom I did. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/heliopolis.htm for answers^ look here
The book is Eternal Egypt: Ancient Rituals for the Modern World
By Richard J. Reidy
Pg. 65
Look for it at google books.
Snippets:
Btw, Van-Sertima was a great scholar, who did excellent work. A great legacy.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Iuntiu and Iunu may share the same root word 'iun' but they are still different words and both seem to be unrelated to 'an' or 'Anu'.
In that light "AnuBis" seems logic as well.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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I saw it in a couple of books but that did not further discuss Anu or Annu (soemtiems with two Ns) in those partcular books
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Tukuler great big post of the 9 bows with translation of their ethnic names and their countries/regions of origin.The Semitic race is very old they are either native African or mixe race.There are no white people in the area.
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Hope to expand on this later (no promisses). Feel free to add or correct as appropriate. Please careful if quoting so as not to make the thread any wider. Sorry but detail ya know!
good find on the larger nine bows with labels pic
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by mena7: Tukuler great big post of the 9 bows with translation of their ethnic names and their countries/regions of origin.The Semitic race is very old they are either native African or mixe race.There are no white people in the area.
mena as an African how often do you see white people in a given week? Do you have any interactions with them?
I've only seen them on TV
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Im living in the USA in a mixed neighborhood in majority white.Im working with white, black and hispanic people.Im a peaceful and humanist person I love everybody.I mind my own business and white people mind their own businees.No problem, thats fine.
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