posted
I hope people ignore the "African origin for J1" comment by xyyman. It goes against every genetic knowledge we have at the moment and goes against common sense.
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posted
I agree with what you said except. Beyoku's is unconfirmed and therefore should not be cited. Jury is out on J1. Obviously AEian had no autosomal and lineage connection with Turks. I use Turks because the Bedouins seem to be remnants of Africans who occupied the Levant. Obviously they are swallowed up and surrounded now. The Bedouins are the most African group in the levant carrying Cameroonian R-V88, E1b1b and ........J1.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
You got jokes ...not bad . [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: when you say "Eureka moment" do mean "further state of denial"?
." [/QUOT]
I will ignore Ultimates statement for now. May he will explain HIS common sense belief.
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posted
I am going to be nice with you . Remember Beyoku met a truck head on and he was fatally wounded. So I am going to pose the question to you. Why isn't J1 African? Careful, don't stick you foot in your mouth.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I am going to be nice with you . Remember Beyoku met a truck head on and he was fatally wounded. So I am going to pose the question to you. Why isn't J1 African? Careful, don't stick you foot in your mouth.
I don't have to disprove something that you haven't proven and goes against common genetic knowledge.
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posted
Common genetic knowledge? Do you know the AEians were Caucasoids?
Lucky I am not Mike. He likes to bitch slap the Negros when they screwup . But I am a nice guy.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Common genetic knowledge? Do you know the AEians were Caucasoids?
Lucky I am not Mike. He likes to bitch slap the Negros when they screwup . But I am a nice guy.
Common genetic knowledge doesn't say anything about Ancient Egyptians. For that we only got the JAMA and BMJ studies, including the fact that Ramses III is E1b1a/E-M2, and the DNA Tribes analysis of them, which I use to prove or disprove some points. There's not any genetic study that attributes the origin of J1 to Africa. I don't know what Mike has anything to do with anything, I practically never read his posts in my life, or at least don't remember them, but you must really like him to talk about him that way. You seem to like what he does. Are you his buddy or something? Is it another one of your ID here?
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Listen babe...eh..dude. did you read Tofanelli paper, including the supplementals? Unlike most brothas here I believe many of the so-called "Caucasoid" North Africans are indigenous. No admixture needed. I am on the fence on J1 origins. Like most genetic researchers I believe the Islamization was cultural and did not include movement of people. J2 was introduced may be during Ottoman period that is why it is localized in the cities while J1 is more widespread indicating a prehistorical spread. I need to do a refresher on Tofanelli.
I have an entire spread on J on ESR.
This is one of the few times DJ is not sucking up to someone and has something worthwhile to add. Tropical Black Yemini and Sudanese ..what’s the difference?
Of course that nonsense caucasoids claim is long overdue.
quote: Morphological variation of the skeletal remains of ancient Nubia has been traditionally explained as a product of multiple migrations into the Nile Valley. In contrast, various researchers have noted a continuity in craniofacial variation from Mesolithic through Neolithic times. This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.
A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis. Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.
--Meredith F. Small*
The nubian mesolithic: A consideration of the Wadi Halfa remains
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Last off topic comment. @ Lioness . I just had an Eureka!! moment. Looking at map you just posted I just realize that J1, E1b1b and E1b1a have similar geographic spread. Reading through the Tafonelli paper I see you have a relevant section highlighted. I saw that too. Which makes me lean futher to an African origin of J1. In the Great Lakes region. I need to follow up on the diversity. The paper does not have the raw data. It just has a chart in the supplementals. I was curios why they lump Ethiopians in with Eurasuans but Qatar , Tunisia , Iraq etc in with Arabic
Agreed the paper points to not an African origin. But it points to a spread PRIOR to the Islamic Expansion. As I said to be continued.
One paper I cited on ESR said eastern origin but when you look at the raw data Sudanese and Yemen diversity was equivalent. That is why I look at the raw data. The jury is still out but I am leaning to an African origin for J1.
This is from a older thread.
"Phylogeographic analysis points to either a Middle East or East African origin"
Link is good. I haven't read it through ===== @ Ultimate. My point. Don't make such stupid and ignorant statement. Especially if you haven't read enough. As I said J1 is either African or middle East origin. I am leaning towards African. It's presence in Africa has nothing to do with Islam. Get It!?
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posted
@ Ultimate. What do you make of this? What is the story here? I am trying to pick out a trend. This if from Tofanelli latest paper on J1. I need some help here.
Hint: what is odd here is the highest diversity is found in....Portugal. does that mean J1 is Portugese in origin? Help me out here.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Ultimate. What do you make of this? What is the story here? I am trying to pick out a trend. This if from Tofanelli latest paper on J1. I need some help here.
Hint: what is odd here is the highest diversity is found in....Portugal. does that mean J1 is Portugese in origin? Help me out here.
Blame it on the Jews, notice on the chart Is-Ash, the red diamond is also fairly high on the chart (Ashkenazi from Israel) It is probably Jews in Portugal, I also see Omanese nearby
Am J Phys Anthropol. 2010 Mar;141(3):373-81. doi: 10.1002/ajpa.21154. Phylogeographic analysis of paternal lineages in NE Portuguese Jewish communities. Nogueiro I, Manco L, Gomes V, Amorim A, Gusmão L. Source Departamento de Antropologia, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000 Coimbra, Portugal.
Abstract The establishment of Jewish communities in the territory of contemporary Portugal is archaeologically documented since the 3rd century CE, but their settlement in Trás-os-Montes (NE Portugal) has not been proved before the 12th century. The Decree of Expulsion followed by the establishment of the Inquisition, both around the beginning of the 16th century, accounted for a significant exodus, as well as the establishment of crypto-Jewish communities. Previous Y chromosome studies have shown that different Jewish communities share a common origin in the Near East, although they can be quite heterogeneous as a consequence of genetic drift and different levels of admixture with their respective host populations. To characterize the genetic composition of the Portuguese Jewish communities from Trás-os-Montes, we have examined 57 unrelated Jewish males, with a high-resolution Y-chromosome typing strategy, comprising 16 STRs and 23 SNPs. A high lineage diversity was found, at both haplotype and haplogroup levels (98.74 and 82.83%, respectively), demonstrating the absence of either strong drift or founder effects. A deeper and more detailed investigation is required to clarify how these communities avoided the expected inbreeding caused by over four centuries of religious repression. Concerning haplogroup lineages, we detected some admixture with the Western European non-Jewish populations (R1b1b2-M269, approximately 28%), along with a strong ancestral component reflecting their origin in the Middle East [J1(xJ1a-M267), approximately 12%; J2-M172, approximately 25%; T-M70, approximately 16%] and in consequence Trás-os-Montes Jews were found to be more closely related with other Jewish groups, rather than with the Portuguese non-Jewish population.
_________________________________________
xyyman always compare the gentics with history:
The history of the Jews in Portugal reaches back over two thousand years and is directly related to Sephardi history, a Jewish ethnic division that represents communities who have originated in the Iberian Peninsula (Portugal and Spain).
Jewish populations have existed on the area even before the country was established, back to the Roman era, or even before – an attested Jewish presence in Portuguese territory, however, can only be documented since 482 CE.[1] With the fall of the Roman Empire, Jews were persecuted by the Visigoths and other European Christian kingdoms which controlled the area after that period.
In 711, the Moorish invasion of the Iberian Peninsula was seen by the many in the Jewish population as a liberation, and marked as the beginning of what many have seen as the Golden age of Jewish culture in the Iberian Peninsula (the Islamic Al-Andalus), even if the Jews, as well as the Christians (the Mozarabs of the Visigothic rite), under Muslim rule were considered Dhimmi, and had to pay a special tax.
Rapidly in the 8th century, the Christian kingdoms of the north mountainous areas of the Iberian Peninsula (Kingdom of Asturias) started a long military campaign against the Muslim invaders, the Reconquista. The Jews, since many knew the Arabic language, were used by the Christians as both spies and diplomats on this campaign that took centuries. This granted them some respect, although there was always prejudice.
___________________________________________
Landing near Algeciras in the spring of 711, the Muslim Moors (mainly Berbers with some Arabs) from North Africa invaded the Iberian peninsula,
Conversos were subject to suspicion and harassment from both the community they were leaving and that which they were joining. Both Christians and Jews called them tornadizo (renegade). James I, Alfonso X and John I passed laws forbidding the use of this epithet. This was part of a larger pattern of royal protection, as laws were promulgated to protect their property, forbid attempts to reconvert them, and regulate the behavior of the conversos themselves, preventing their cohabitation or even dining with Jews, lest they convert back.
The conversos did not enjoy legal equality. Alfonso VII prohibited the "recently converted" from holding office in Toledo. They had both supporters and bitter opponents within the Christian secular of general acceptance, yet they became targets of occasional pogroms during times of extreme social tension (as during an epidemic and after an earthquake). They were subject to the Spanish and Portuguese inquisitions.
While pure blood (so-called limpieza de sangre) would come to be placed at a premium, particularly among the nobility, in a 15th-century defense of conversos, Bishop Lope de Barrientos would list what Roth calls "a veritable 'Who's Who' of Spanish nobility" as having converso members or being of converso descent. He pointed out that given the near-universal conversion of Iberian Jews during Visigothic times, (quoting Roth) "[W]ho among the Christians of Spain could be certain that he is not a descendant of those conversos?"
According to a widely publicised study (December 2008) published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, 19.8 percent of modern Spaniards (and Portuguese) have DNA reflecting Sephardic Jewish ancestry (compared to 10.6 percent having DNA reflecting Moorish ancestors).[1] The Sephardic result is in contradiction [2][3][4] or not replicated in all the body of genetic studies done in Iberia and has been relativized by the authors themselves[1][5][6][7] and questioned by Stephen Oppenheimer, who estimates that much earlier migrations, 5,000 to 10,000 years ago from the Eastern Mediterranean, might also have accounted for the Sephardic estimates. "They are really assuming that they are looking at this migration of Jewish immigrants, but the same lineages could have been introduced in the Neolithic".[8] The same authors in also a recent study (October 2008) attributed most of those same lineages in Iberia and the Balearic Islands as of Phoenician origin.[9] The rest of genetic studies done in Spain estimate the Moorish contribution ranging from 2.5/3.4%[10] to 7.7%.[11]
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: That is why you always come across a kiss ass. You really have a bad habit of not reading an article but insist on getting your Hindu ass to butt in.
I beg your pardon??! I took me a while to realize that this post was addressed to me. I mean "Hindu ass"?! LMAO Exactly what makes you think I'm Hindu?! Also, I can read perfectly fine unlike YOU! Your dumb ass has the bad habit of reading an article without fully understanding it, and then putting coming to your own erroneous conclusions based misinterpreting what was truly said!!
quote:Quote by DJ: "Much of the J lineages in Africa, is the result of Islamic invasion.” Quote by Tofanelli: “To better understand the modes and timing of J1 dispersals, we reconstructed the genealogical relationships among 282 M267*G chromosomes from 29 populations typed at 20 YSTRs and 6 SNPs. Phylogenetic analyses depicted a new genetic background consistent with climate-driven demographic dynamics occurring during two key phases of human pre-history: (1) the spatial expansion of hunter gatherers in response to the end of the late Pleistocene cooling phases and (2) the displacement of groups of foragers/herders following the mid-Holocene rainfall retreats across the SAHARA AND **ARABIA**(part of greater Africa). Furthermore, J1 STR motifs previously used to trace Arab or Jewish ancestries were shown unsuitable as diagnostic markers for ethnicity Do you understand what he just said there DJ? I will help you. J1 had NADA, Nothing to do with Islamic Expansion.
As I've always stated, the source of the expansion is ARABIA. Whether you include Arabia as part of Africa or Asia, is up to you. Also, while many the J1 subclades in Africa ARE due to Islamic expansion, not ALL of them are!! I already stated that there are J1 hgs present in the Horn region that predate Proto-Semitic, let alone the Arab language and Islam!
So perhaps you should also bother to understand what I write as well. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: I agree that the largest part of West African ancestry doesn't derived from Ancient Egyptians. West Africans are not direct descendant of Ancient Egyptians, at least not to a significant level. But both Western Africans, as well as other so-called "sub-Saharan" Africans, and Ancient Egyptians share common ancestors. Common ancestors postdating, for example, the OOA migration of non-Africans populations (but predating the birth of the Ancient Egyptian state).
Correct! And this explains the STRs and SNP results of DNA Tribes. I have been repeating this for years well before the results.
quote:I don't agree with you that the direction of genetic exchange within the Green Sahara populations, which include the Nile and the future location of Ancient Egypt, was only west to east. It was in both directions. West to east and East to West. The Green Sahara period, with its up and down, was a relatively long period in human history like at least 3000 years. We're in the years 2000s, and we talk about 3000 years here, so there has been time for a lot of population movements and admixture in all directions during the Green Sahara period.
True. I never denied that there were migrations west during the Green Sahara. I merely disavowed that the claim of post-dynastic migrations. That there were migrations east to west by common Saharan ancestors explains many striking similarities like the Bes figure, certain staff figures like was, ritual statuary, votives, etc. etc.
quote:During the Green Sahara period, predating the formation of the Ancient Egyptian state, "sub-Sahara" Africa so to say, was shifted northward. So rain, vegetation, animals and humans populations that followed them moved from "sub-Sahara" Africa to Northeastern Africa and the Sahara in general for at least 3000 years.
Yes, and really there was no "Sahara" or at least the desert was confined to smaller areas of the north. This is why the attempt of Euronuts to divide and segregate Africans is hilarious. And that includes the Hamitonuts!
quote:Also a bit before that time, or at the edge of it, all modern African genetic groups (like E-P2, probably true to for downstream A and B haplogroups too) and modern African languages phyla originate around northeastern Africa (around Sudan, Southern Egypt, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc). So most of all the modern Africans ancestry, as well as the Ancient Egyptian ancestry, can be found in eastern/northeastern Africa. It's afterward that they migrated to the rest of Africa like what would become the Green Sahara (probably meeting small group of humans there). Then when the Sahara got dry again, they had to move to Western Africa, Southern Africa, the Nile, etc (again meeting very small group of humans there. A00, Mbuti, etc). All those small groups of humans were absorbed by the migration of a much more demographically large African population from the Sahara. Leaving almost no trace of them in Western Africa (although the recently discovered A00 hg, is probably small traces of them).
Definitely Afrisian originated in northeast Africa in relatively more recent time compared to other African language phyla as that is its area of greatest diversity. And while Niger-Congo is greatest concentrated in West and Central Africa and Nilo-Saharan largely in East Africa, there is linguistic evidence to suggest that both phyla share a common ancestry. And that a remote branch of Niger-Congo (Kordofan) is still spoken in Sudan.
Really there is nothing you said that I disagree with. Perhaps you too misunderstood my post.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Ultimate. What do you make of this? What is the story here? I am trying to pick out a trend. This if from Tofanelli latest paper on J1. I need some help here.
Hint: what is odd here is the highest diversity is found in....Portugal. does that mean J1 is Portugese in origin? Help me out here.
Blame it on the Jews, notice on the chart Is-Ash, the red diamond is also fairly high on the chart (Ashkenazi from Israel) It is probably Jews in Portugal, I also see Omanese nearby
Am J Phys Anthropol. 2010 Mar;141(3):373-81. doi: 10.1002/ajpa.21154. Phylogeographic analysis of paternal lineages in NE Portuguese Jewish communities. Nogueiro I, Manco L, Gomes V, Amorim A, Gusmão L. Source Departamento de Antropologia, Universidade de Coimbra, 3000 Coimbra, Portugal.
Abstract The establishment of Jewish communities in the territory of contemporary Portugal is archaeologically documented since the 3rd century CE, but their settlement in Trás-os-Montes (NE Portugal) has not been proved before the 12th century. The Decree of Expulsion followed by the establishment of the Inquisition, both around the beginning of the 16th century, accounted for a significant exodus, as well as the establishment of crypto-Jewish communities. Previous Y chromosome studies have shown that different Jewish communities share a common origin in the Near East, although they can be quite heterogeneous as a consequence of genetic drift and different levels of admixture with their respective host populations. To characterize the genetic composition of the Portuguese Jewish communities from Trás-os-Montes, we have examined 57 unrelated Jewish males, with a high-resolution Y-chromosome typing strategy, comprising 16 STRs and 23 SNPs. A high lineage diversity was found, at both haplotype and haplogroup levels (98.74 and 82.83%, respectively), demonstrating the absence of either strong drift or founder effects. A deeper and more detailed investigation is required to clarify how these communities avoided the expected inbreeding caused by over four centuries of religious repression. Concerning haplogroup lineages, we detected some admixture with the Western European non-Jewish populations (R1b1b2-M269, approximately 28%), along with a strong ancestral component reflecting their origin in the Middle East [J1(xJ1a-M267), approximately 12%; J2-M172, approximately 25%; T-M70, approximately 16%] and in consequence Trás-os-Montes Jews were found to be more closely related with other Jewish groups, rather than with the Portuguese non-Jewish population.
_________________________________________
xyyman always compare the gentics with history:
The history of the Jews in Portugal reaches back over two thousand years and is directly related to Sephardi history, a Jewish ethnic division that represents communities who have originated in the Iberian Peninsula (Portugal and Spain).
Jewish populations have existed on the area even before the country was established, back to the Roman era, or even before – an attested Jewish presence in Portuguese territory, however, can only be documented since 482 CE.[1] With the fall of the Roman Empire, Jews were persecuted by the Visigoths and other European Christian kingdoms which controlled the area after that period.
In 711, the Moorish invasion of the Iberian Peninsula was seen by the many in the Jewish population as a liberation, and marked as the beginning of what many have seen as the Golden age of Jewish culture in the Iberian Peninsula (the Islamic Al-Andalus), even if the Jews, as well as the Christians (the Mozarabs of the Visigothic rite), under Muslim rule were considered Dhimmi, and had to pay a special tax.
Rapidly in the 8th century, the Christian kingdoms of the north mountainous areas of the Iberian Peninsula (Kingdom of Asturias) started a long military campaign against the Muslim invaders, the Reconquista. The Jews, since many knew the Arabic language, were used by the Christians as both spies and diplomats on this campaign that took centuries. This granted them some respect, although there was always prejudice.
___________________________________________
Landing near Algeciras in the spring of 711, the Muslim Moors (mainly Berbers with some Arabs) from North Africa invaded the Iberian peninsula,
Conversos were subject to suspicion and harassment from both the community they were leaving and that which they were joining. Both Christians and Jews called them tornadizo (renegade). James I, Alfonso X and John I passed laws forbidding the use of this epithet. This was part of a larger pattern of royal protection, as laws were promulgated to protect their property, forbid attempts to reconvert them, and regulate the behavior of the conversos themselves, preventing their cohabitation or even dining with Jews, lest they convert back.
The conversos did not enjoy legal equality. Alfonso VII prohibited the "recently converted" from holding office in Toledo. They had both supporters and bitter opponents within the Christian secular of general acceptance, yet they became targets of occasional pogroms during times of extreme social tension (as during an epidemic and after an earthquake). They were subject to the Spanish and Portuguese inquisitions.
While pure blood (so-called limpieza de sangre) would come to be placed at a premium, particularly among the nobility, in a 15th-century defense of conversos, Bishop Lope de Barrientos would list what Roth calls "a veritable 'Who's Who' of Spanish nobility" as having converso members or being of converso descent. He pointed out that given the near-universal conversion of Iberian Jews during Visigothic times, (quoting Roth) "[W]ho among the Christians of Spain could be certain that he is not a descendant of those conversos?"
According to a widely publicised study (December 2008) published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, 19.8 percent of modern Spaniards (and Portuguese) have DNA reflecting Sephardic Jewish ancestry (compared to 10.6 percent having DNA reflecting Moorish ancestors).[1] The Sephardic result is in contradiction [2][3][4] or not replicated in all the body of genetic studies done in Iberia and has been relativized by the authors themselves[1][5][6][7] and questioned by Stephen Oppenheimer, who estimates that much earlier migrations, 5,000 to 10,000 years ago from the Eastern Mediterranean, might also have accounted for the Sephardic estimates. "They are really assuming that they are looking at this migration of Jewish immigrants, but the same lineages could have been introduced in the Neolithic".[8] The same authors in also a recent study (October 2008) attributed most of those same lineages in Iberia and the Balearic Islands as of Phoenician origin.[9] The rest of genetic studies done in Spain estimate the Moorish contribution ranging from 2.5/3.4%[10] to 7.7%.[11]
This actually debunks your theory, because according to your theory; Hg J1 should have arisen in Southern Portugal first.
The thread and study by Beyoku, supports a probable East African origin because of specific basic locus and alleles.
-M168, M89, J-M267.
"Phylogeographic analysis points to either a Middle East or East African origin"
And yes, Sephardim Portuguese jews are eventually from the "Middle-East". So the high resolution fits perfectly.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
This actually debunks your theory, because according to your theory; Hg J1 should have arisen in Southern Portugal first.
Quote me where I gave such a theory I have no theory that hg J1 arose in Portugal. That was something xyyman asked about. Origin is usually suggested by both frequency and diversity, I stated it earlier and put up a frequency chart that shows frequency highest in the Caucus and Arabia. xyyman put up a chart that seems to show Portuguese with some of the highest diversity. I don't know the exact context. I put up information explaining recent CE reasons for the diversity not origin.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
The thread and study by Beyoku, supports a probable East origin because of specific basic locus and alleles.
And yes, Sephardim Portuguese jews are eventually from the "Middle-East". So the high resolution fits perfectly. [/QB]
That's exactly what I'm saying.
However xxyman thinks J1 originates in Africa iand he stated it on the previous page. He posted this chart on diversity to try to suggest that J1 couldn't have originated in Portugal so therefore diversity is irrelevant. Diversity is not irrelevant but it doesn't explain origin in this case of Portugal on the chart he posted.
You have not been following well. I stated several times earlier J1 is near eastern.
xyyman's position is that it is Sudanese origin.
What happened was he first saw this diversity chart showed SUD (Sudan) low in J diveristy, which is what the other article also said. But he didn't wnat to mention that so he decided to attck the credibility of the whole chart by talking instead of Portugal. The reason for it still probably recent, although extends to pre Islam Jews in the region of 2000 or more years ago.
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
This actually debunks your theory, because according to your theory; Hg J1 should have arisen in Southern Portugal first.
Quote me where I gave such a theory I have no theory that hg J1 arose in Portugal. That was something xyyman asked about. Origin is usually suggested by both frequency and diversity, I stated it earlier and put up a frequency chart that shows frequency highest in the Caucus and Arabia. xyyman put up a chart that seems to show Portugese with some of the highest diversity. I don't know the exact context. I put up information explaining recent CE reasons for the diversity not origin.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
The thread and study by Beyoku, supports a probable East origin because of specific basic locus and alleles.
And yes, Sephardim Portuguese jews are eventually from the "Middle-East". So the high resolution fits perfectly.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
However xxyman thinks J1 originates in Africa na he stated it on the pervious page. He posted this chart on diversity to try to suggest that J1 coudn't have orignated in Portugal so therefore diversity is irrelevant. Diversity is not irrelevant but it doesn't explain orign in this case of Portugal on the chart he posted.
You have not been following well. I stated several times J1 is near eastern.
xyyman's postion is that it is Sudanese origin [/QB]
Hmmmm,
The following pattern goes like this:
M168;
M89;
J-M267.
The question has now become, the LOCI AND ALLELES within J-M267.
J1-M267 Y lineage marks climate-driven pre-historical human displacements.
Table 1. Descriptive and inferential statistics calculated for 20-locus haplotypes on 282 J1-M267 Y chromosomes
Contour map showing the present day distribution of J1 and J*(xJ2) chromosomes. Gridding was carried out starting from 336 frequency points (Supplementary Table S3) with SURFIT 2.1 (http://surfit.sourceforge.net/index.html). Spatial surfaces were computed using GMT 4.3.1 (http://gmt.soest.hawaii.edu). Methodological details are available on request.
MDS plot of pairwise F ST distances among 18–locus haplotypes (alleles at duplicated loci Dys385a/b and YCAIIa/b were pooled). Stress value (0.07775) denotes a statistically significant departure from random structure.13 Dots colour: light blue=Dagestan groups, black=Arabian groups, Grey=Maghrebian groups, Purple=Sudanese groups, Green=European groups, Orange=SW Asian groups, Yellow=Ethiopian groups. Dots' shape: squares=Arabic-speaking groups; circles=Indo-European-speaking groups; diamonds=North-Caucasian-speaking groups; triangle=Semitic (non-Arabic)-speaking groups (the colour reproduction of this figure is available on the full text version of the manuscript). Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote: Sub-Saharan African Y chromosome diversity is represented by five main haplogroups (hgs): A, B, E, J, and R (Underhill et al. 2001; Cruciani et al. 2002; Tishkoff et al. 2007).
Hgs J and R are geographically restricted to eastern and central Africa, respectively, whereas hg E shows a wider continental distribution (see also Berniell-Lee et al. 2009; Cruciani et al. 2010).
[...]
All the samples included here were genotyped for ten STRs: DYS19, DYS389-I, DYS389-II (the allele reported in supplementary table S1, Supplementary Material online, has been obtained by subtracting the DYS389-I allele), DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, and DYS439. A subset of the samples was tested for an additional five loci (DYS448, DYS456, DYS458 , DYS635, and Y-GATA-H4). In the statistical analyses, specific loci (DYS385, DYS389-II, DYS390, DYS448, and DYS635) were excluded due to allelic homoplasy as reported in the NIST Y-STR Fact Sheets (see Web resources in Acknowledgments). Following this, eight STR loci were used in both phylogeographic and intralineage analyses in order to maintain broad population coverage.
[...]
The starting set of markers comprised the 8 STRs used for Network analysis and diversity estimates and was extended to 11 by including DYS456, DYS458 , and YGATA-H4 loci. Due to multistep correction, different sets of STRs were used (supplementary table S7, Supplementary Material online), and the average mutation rate was estimated using locus-specific values (YHRD, release33; Willuweit et al. 2007).
--Chiara Batini † et al.
Signatures of the Preagricultural Peopling Processes in Sub-Saharan Africa as Revealed by the Phylogeography of Early Y Chromosome Lineages
Mol Biol Evol (2011) 28 (9): 2603-2613. doi: 10.1093/molbev/msr089 First published online: April 4, 2011
posted
I just had to post this for laughter, since some of the "Physical Anthropology" sources date back all the to 1802.
Yes, 1802.
Basically all these sources are from the 18th and early 19th century. To maximum the first quarter of the 19th century.
quote: At the encouragement of another HU member, I have decided to start an open access library of notable works on or with direct relevance to Hamitic history, culture and biology. It is meant to complement the Hamitic Physical Anthropology thread by linking directly to complete materials on the same subject as opposed to excerpts from select chapters. Some of the more prominent examples of such classic works can be downloaded below, with more to follow
quote: Every genetic study extant places the origins of haplogroup E either in Northeast Africa or in Eurasia. None associate the clade's origins directly with Negroid populations. Despite this, confusion (primarily among laypeople) seems to surround the haplogroup's population affinities. This mainly has to do with the fact that numerous (though not all) modern Negroid peoples carry the clade. This thread helps explain why they do, as well as how, when and through what mechanism(s) those Negroid peoples acquired haplogroup E in the first place from the Hamitic folk it originated with.
quote: The DE haplogroup appeared approximately 50,000 years bp in North East Africa and subsequently split into haplogroup E that spread to Europe and Africa and haplogroup D that rapidly spread along the coastline of India and Asia to North Asia.
quote: A1a-M31 is observed in northwestern Africans; A1b1a-M14 is seen among click language-speaking Khoisan populations. A1b1b-M32 has a wide distribution including Khoisan speaking and East African populations, and scattered members on the Arabian Peninsula
--Haplogroups CT and CF: Everyone who doesn't belong to Haplogroup A or B belongs to the super-group CT, which is defined by mutations M168 and M294. This is the branch of humanity that first left Africa, although the mutation that led to CT probably happened in Africa about 50,000 - 60,000 years ago, in a man from East Africa, who's been called the "Eurasian Adam", since his descendents include all Eurasian and Asian people today. Haplogroup CT was probably the group involved in the early migration out of Africa, which spread along the southern coast of the Arabian peninsula, Iran, Pakistan, India, and all the way to southeast Asia. Here are some maps showing these early migrations. As you can see, the dates calculated from the genetic evidence correspond only roughly to dates determined by the archeological evidence. These are not yet exact sciences in terms of dating, so we have to reckon with some degree of uncertainty. Haplogroup CF diverged soon after, also in Africa, and is defined by mutation P143. Both super-groups CT and CF are found all over the world, including the Americas.
--Interesting, so this should means that a of YAP occurred splitting this CT into C and T, causing mutations in the loci, just like the DE*, as mankind left the East African coast and moved into another region.
Y-DNA haplogroup A contains lineages deriving from the earliest branching in the human Y chromosome tree. The oldest branching event, separating A0-P305 and A1-V161, is thought to have occurred about 140,000 years ago. Haplogroups A0-P305, A1a-M31 and A1b1a-M14 are restricted to Africa and A1b1b-M32 is nearly restricted to Africa. The haplogroup that would be named A1b2 is composed of haplogroups B through T. The internal branching of haplogroup A1-V161 into A1a-M31, A1b1, and BT (A1b2) may have occurred about 110,000 years ago. A0-P305 is found at low frequency in Central and West Africa. A1a-M31 is observed in northwestern Africans; A1b1a-M14 is seen among click language-speaking Khoisan populations. A1b1b-M32 has a wide distribution including Khoisan speaking and East African populations, and scattered members on the Arabian Peninsula.
quote: Y-DNA haplogroup B, like Y-DNA haplogroup A, is seen only in Africa and is scattered widely, but thinly across the continent. B is thought to have arisen approximately 50,000 years ago. These haplogroups have higher frequencies among hunter-gather groups in Ethiopia and Sudan, and are also seen among click language-speaking populations. The patchy, widespread distribution of these haplogroups may mean that they are remnants of ancient lineages that once had a much wider range but have been largely displaced by more recent population events.
Some geographic structuring is seen between the sub-groups B2a (B-M150) and B2b (B-M112). Sub-group B2b is seen among Central African Pygmies and South African Khoisan. Sub-group B2a is seen among Cameroonians, East Africans, and among South African Bantu speakers. B2a1a (B-M109) is the most commonly seen sub-group of B2a. About 2.3% of African-Americans belong to haplogroup B - with 1.5% of them belonging to the sub-group B2a1a.
posted
^^^^ as xyyman says, "overload" the guy is spammng now. It's not cohaerant as dialog, just something to skip, 4 posts in a row talking to himself
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posted
The Y-DNA haplogroups situation is really simple: ABE=African DCF=non-African
Obviously since the main OOA migration of non-African there's been some level of admixtures between humans who stayed in Africa and humans who left Africa(F descendants mostly).
For example, some Cameroonians got the R haplogroup. R haplogroup in Africa is an example of the back migration of F descendants in Africa after many millennium of separation. R is an haplogroup descendant of the F haplogroup along with other haplogroup like R,H,I,J,K. Still in this case, it's most probable that if autosomal DNA were analyzed the full genome of those Cameroonians would be mostly African despite possessing a non-African haplogroup. Since Y-DNA and MtDNA haplogroups are only one line of descent. Same thing with ancient E or mtDNA L haplogroup found in Europe. In this case, even if some "native" Europeans got the E and mtDNA L haplogroup, before and around 10 000BC, their full genome is probably mostly Europeans.
The mtDNA situation is similarly simple. L and possibly M1=African non-L=non-African
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: You do realize Tafonelli agrees with me? The same paper you cited. Guess you did not read it before you posted.? That is not very smart.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Like most genetic researchers I believe the Islamization was cultural and did not include movement of people.
that's bull
quote Tafonelli where he says Arab DNA had no effect on the genetics of Africa
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posted
Would you give it up already Ultimate. There is very little "non-African" haplogroups. Aren't you reading the post ....or not understanding. R-V88 has recently been proven as NOT back-migration. M/N, female, is more diverse in Africa. Y- C, D, F etc is found all over Africa including West Africa would you be cognizant of the BS you are posting. It is a good idea to read other cited sources by other posters...it is called a well rounded education/ or balanced view. That way you sound like you know what you are talking about, and not like a dogmatic idiot. Little advice.
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posted
Listen Dude. I know you are not as dumb as the question you just asked. The title says it all . I quoted/bolded it in the abstract. Key words "climate driven" and "pre-history". I don't need to say more.
And those trick questions are juvenile. The argument is Isalmization and if and when.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Would you give it up already Ultimate. There is very little "non-African" haplogroups. Aren't you reading the post ....or not understanding. R-V88 has recently been proven as NOT back-migration. M/N, female, is more diverse in Africa. Y- C, D, F etc is found all over Africa including West Africa would you be cognizant of the BS you are posting. It is a good idea to read other cited sources by other posters...it is called a well rounded education. That way you sound like you know what you are talking about, and not like a dogmatic idiot. Little advice.
Thank you Mike for providing us with some humoristic moments on this forum. You show us that anybody can have an opinion which defies science and basic logic and hold on to it.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Listen babe. I know you are not as dumb as the question you just asked. The title says it all . I quoted/bolded it in the abstract. Key words "climate driven" and "pre-history". I don't need to say more.
so you agree with Tofanelli who says that the first wave of J1 came from the Arabian penninusla into Africa in pre historic times?
Look below I have the ability quote complete sentences
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J1-M267 Y lineage marks climate-driven pre-historical human displacements Sergio 2009
This time window is related to a pre-historic phase of regionalisation in the human occupation of Sahara and Arabia, when semi-nomadic tribes, once diffused all over the Desert, retreated in water-rich refuges (ie, the Atlas range,15 the Sudanese plateau,16 Southern Arabia17) as a consequence of the rapid decline of monsoon rainfalls. In Eastern Sahara, it is associated with the rise of a dual productive economy, where specialised cattle pastoralism came to coexist with sedentary lifestyles, cereal farming and pottery production, clearly rooted in near East traditions. The genetic legacy of the mid-Holocene dispersal of foraging groups in the Sudanese Sahara, North Africa and Arabia would be tracked by Arabic J1-M267 chromosomes while the dispersal of agro–pastoralists with near eastern origins by other Y (E1b-M34 and E1b-M7818) or mitochondrial (U6b19) lineages.
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^^^ remarkable what xyyman can't comprehend in the study he keeps referring to
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posted
@ Ultimate. Hey. I am looking out for you man. You provide some valuable pics in that thread.
But not all Africans are "negroids".
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: The Y-DNA haplogroups situation is really simple: _____________________________J M267 ABE=African DCF=non-African
posted
I agree with Tafonelli that it was NOT during Islamization. Where it originated ? .. I am on the fence. TP summed it up . My Eureka moment shows J1 mimics E1b1b. I need to follow up on J in the Lemba. Your J chart may need updating.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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The majority of Arabized and indigenous tribes like the Fur, Zaghawa, Masalit and some Baggara ethnic groups, who speak Chadian Arabic, show less cultural integration because of cultural, linguistic and genealogical variations with other Arab and Arabized tribes.
Sudanese Arabs of Northern and Eastern parts descend primarily from migrants from the Arabian peninsula and some of the pre-existing indigenous populations of Sudan, especially the Nubian people, who also share a common history with Egypt and Beja. Additionally, a few pre-Islamic Arabian tribes existed in Sudan from earlier migrations into the region from Western Arabia, although most Arabs in Sudan are dated from migrations after the 12th century
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^^ all Tofanelli says is that because in addition to this there was an earlier wave of J1 coming from the near east into Africa due to migrations away from a drying climate mean that you cant attribute all the J1 in Africa to the Islamic period. Is he saying that in the later Ilsamic period no J1 migrated form Arabia into Africa? No. In fact that is how most of it came, despite of a wave of back migration (similar to Henn on prehistoric back migration of European lineages) form Eurasia into Africa He even calls J M267 "Arabic J1-M267" in this case meaning prehistoric Arabs, not prehistoric Africans
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I agree with Tafonelli that it was NOT during Islamization. Where it originated ? .. I am on the fence. TP summed it up . My Eureka moment shows J1 mimics E1b1b. I need to follow up on J in the Lemba. Your J chart may need updating.
Prior to Arab culture in Arab, the first civilization:
The UBAID period (ca. 6500 to 3800 BC is a prehistoric period of Mesopotamia. Ubaid culture spread into northern Mesopotamia replacing (after a hiatus) the Halaf culture. Ubaid artifacts spread also all along the Arabian coast, The archaeological record shows that Arabian Bifacial/Ubaid period came to an abrupt end in eastern Arabia and the Oman peninsula at 3800 BC, just after the phase of lake lowering and onset of dune reactivation. At this time, increased aridity led to an end in semi-desert nomadism, and there is no evidence of human presence in the area for approximately 1000 years, the so-called "Dark Millennium"
^^^^ xyyman if you look at a little bit of the pre history of civilization in the region it makes sense
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posted
While the lioness, and Mike provide us with distractions, it has nothing to do with the Hamiticentric critique or the DNA Tribes results.
According to the DNA Tribes results of the 18th Dynasty and 20th Dynasty mummies. Ancient Egyptian are genetically closer to modern Great Lakes, Southern and West Africans. Not modern Levantine, North African or West Asian populations. The BMJ study also demonstrate that Ramses III is E1b1a/E-M2, which is an haplogroup prevalent all over Africa and rare in other regions. That's the hard facts we got at the moment. Personally, while speculative, I also think with the right population samples, and a different set of mummies, East Africans would also be close to Ancient Egyptians. And those East Africans would be close to other Africans (Great Lakes,Western, etc). In fact, those East Africans would be as close to Ancient Egyptians as they are close to other African population groups, only tempered by the degree of "recent" foreign admixtures.
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posted
I said this so many times. I am hesitant to believe what white people write in their history books. White people lie. They falsify history, it is that simple. But based upon my experience they are less likely to falsify data. They will try to tell you what the data means. As an educated black people we must not fall for that trick. Got it Ultimate?! The mathematical model shows J1 spreading prior to the Islamic period which I agree with Tafonelli.That chart I put up would help resolve its origin. Portugal North, South and Central has high diversity but low frequency. J1 seems to mimic E1b1b. Ethiopia seems a practical point of origin. But I need more data.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I agree Ultimate. We should take this someplace else, but I gave my 2 cents on the Hamitic nonsense, and you agreed with me!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I said this so many times. I am hesitant to believe what white people write in their history books. White people lie. They falsify history, it is that simple. But based upon my experience they are less likely to falsify data. They will try to tell you what the data means. As an educated black people we must not fall for that trick. Got it Ultimate?! The mathematical model shows J1 spreading prior to the Islamic period which I agree with Tafonelli.That chart I put up would help resolve its origin. Portugal North, South and Central has high diversity but low frequency. J1 seems to mimic E1b1b. Ethiopia seems a practical point of origin. But I need more data.
my arrows here for possible migration of J1 This a few thousand years before Islam, Mesopotamia marked purple was extending into the Arabian coast The branch that went into Africa a bit later
posted
I have no problem with Mike...we have our differences, but that goes for Clyde, Sage, and others. About 25% of the times I agree with Swenet. TP and I seem to be on the same page with North Africa ie Aterian and south Arabian cultures. You have provided some never before seen pics. Don't take it personal.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
@ Lioness. I don't do we'll with hypotheticals. In 2009 study by Tofanelli posted by TP, he speculated J1 was an East African haplogroups. In this study we have a high frequency and high diversity in East Africa. Both E1b1b and J1 mimic each other . We know E is African .......
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] @ Lioness. I don't do we'll with hypotheticals. In 2009 study by Tofanelli posted by TP, he speculated J1 was an East African haplogroups. In this study we have a high frequency and high diversity in East Africa. Both E1b1b and J1 mimic each other . We know E is African .......
here is the Tofanelli 2009 he referred to contradicting you. If you were comprehending properly, in addition to J, he even refers to certain sub clades of E as near eastern
J1-M267 Y lineage marks climate-driven pre-historical human displacements Tofanelli 2009
This time window is related to a pre-historic phase of regionalisation in the human occupation of Sahara and Arabia, when semi-nomadic tribes, once diffused all over the Desert, retreated in water-rich refuges (ie, the Atlas range,15 the Sudanese plateau,16 Southern Arabia17) as a consequence of the rapid decline of monsoon rainfalls. In Eastern Sahara, it is associated with the rise of a dual productive economy, where specialised cattle pastoralism came to coexist with sedentary lifestyles, cereal farming and pottery production, clearly rooted in near East traditions. The genetic legacy of the mid-Holocene dispersal of foraging groups in the Sudanese Sahara, North Africa and Arabia would be tracked by Arabic J1-M267 chromosomes while the dispersal of agro–pastoralists with near eastern origins by other Y (E1b-M34 and E1b-M7818) or mitochondrial (U6b19) lineages.
posted
I guess you missed the ...."posted by TP. " It was Torafenelli earlier work.
Bottom line. Here are the facts:
East Africans has the highest frequency combined with highest diversity. Portuguese has a slightly higher diversity but substantial lower frequency. This applies to Black Sea area also. I am not sure what it means ....as yet. Ignoring a white man telling me what it means. The mathematical model suggest the foundation occurred around the Helocene
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I guess you missed the ...."posted by TP. " It was Torafenelli earlier work.
Bottom line. Here are the facts:
East Africans has the highest frequency combined with highest diversity. Portuguese has a slightly higher diversity but substantial lower frequency. This applies to Black Sea area also. I am not sure what it means ....as yet. Ignoring a white man telling me what it means. The mathematical model suggest the foundation occurred around the Helocene
The 2008 article is on a specific allelle an inconclusive
my arrows here for possible migration of J1 This a few thousand years before Islam, Mesopotamia marked purple was extending into the Arabian coast The branch that went into Africa a bit later
Your little map and arrows are b.s. since its long been established that J1 entered the Horn during the Neolithic and its presence in southern Arabia was established before the mesolithic! Again the oldest subclades are found in Arabia NOT Anatolia or the Caucasus. And what about its ancestral clade un-derived J*? J* is found nowhere else but in the southern areas of Arabia and in the coastal Horn, its highest frequency is in Soqotra Island among the aborigines.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I said this so many times. I am hesitant to believe what white people write in their history books. White people lie. They falsify history, it is that simple. But based upon my experience they are less likely to falsify data. They will try to tell you what the data means. As an educated black people we must not fall for that trick. Got it Ultimate?! The mathematical model shows J1 spreading prior to the Islamic period which I agree with Tafonelli.That chart I put up would help resolve its origin. Portugal North, South and Central has high diversity but low frequency. J1 seems to mimic E1b1b. Ethiopia seems a practical point of origin. But I need more data.
LOL Your post is nothing more than a prejudice generalization on whites. Not all white people are racist or have biased views. Yes racist bias exists but to blanket all whites of being guilty of this is a non-starter. Your post is also contradictory because you then cite and rely heavily on scientific studies conducted by and written by WHITES. It is this type of schizoid thinking that explains why you cannot comprehend writing that well or make these ridiculous assertions like me being 'Hindu'! LOLPosts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Ok ok not all lie . But a lot do. You just stole my thunder ... I was just about cite the underived J found on both sides of the Red Sea . Some unique markers were also found in Sudan. Will cite later. On the road now.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,: [/URL]c
my arrows here for possible migration of J1 This a few thousand years before Islam, Mesopotamia marked purple was extending into the Arabian coast The branch that went into Africa a bit later
Your little map and arrows are b.s. since its long been established that J1 entered the Horn during the Neolithic and its presence in southern Arabia was established before the mesolithic! Again the oldest subclades are found in Arabia NOT Anatolia or the Caucasus. And what about its ancestral clade un-derived J*? J* is found nowhere else but in the southern areas of Arabia and in the coastal Horn, its highest frequency is in Soqotra Island among the aborigines.
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: The Y-DNA haplogroups situation is really simple:
ABE=African DCF=non-African
Obviously since the main OOA migration of non-African there's been some level of admixtures between humans who stayed in Africa and humans who left Africa(F descendants mostly).
For example, some Cameroonians got the R haplogroup. R haplogroup in Africa is an example of the back migration of F descendants in Africa after many millennium of separation. R is an haplogroup descendant of the F haplogroup along with other haplogroup like R,H,I,J,K. Still in this case, it's most probable that if autosomal DNA were analyzed the full genome of those Cameroonians would be mostly African despite possessing a non-African haplogroup. Since Y-DNA and MtDNA haplogroups are only one line of descent. Same thing with ancient E or mtDNA L haplogroup found in Europe. In this case, even if some "native" Europeans got the E and mtDNA L haplogroup, before and around 10 000BC, their full genome is probably mostly Europeans.
The mtDNA situation is similarly simple. L and possibly M1=African non-L=non-African
Actually the situation is a bit more complex. Haplogroup F , the ancestral clade of the vast majority of Eurasian lineages, has long been presumed to have originated in Asia. However there are significant traces of underived F* present in Africa, particularly among Sudanese tribes. Predictably, many experts then assumed that this was due to Arab genetic influence among these tribes. The problems with this hypothesis is that F is rare in Arabia with underived F* practically non-existent, while the same Sudanese tribes who carry F* show minimal frequencies of J while showing high frequencies of indigenous hgs like A and B. Furthermore, the recent genetic analysis of Neoltihic Nubian remains yield hg A as well as hg F*. All of this supports the theory that F* may have originated in Africa first before entering Southwest Asia and dispersing.
But I do agree that though Southwest Asia may be the launching pad for multiple OOA migrations, there was obviously some back-and-forth migrations between Southwest Asia and Africa, hence haplogroups G, I, J, K, R, and T in Africa. Just like Keita says, Paleolithic hunter-gatherers were constantly moving not only between 'sub-Sahara' and 'Supra-Sahara' but also between Supra-Sahara' and Eurasia, specifically Southwest Asia.
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The area known today as Sudan may have been the scene of pivotal human evolutionary events, both as a corridor for ancient and modern migrations, as well as the venue of crucial past cultural evolution. Several questions pertaining to the pattern of succession of the different groups in early Sudan have been raised. To shed light on these aspects, ancient DNA (aDNA) and present DNA collection were made and studied using Y-chromosome markers for aDNA, and Y-chromosome and mtDNA markers for present DNA. Bone samples from different skeletal elements of burial sites from Neolithic, Meroitic, Post-Meroitic and Christian periods in Sudan were collected from Sudan National Museum. aDNA extraction was successful in 35 out of 76 samples, PCR was performed for sex determination using Amelogenin marker. Fourteen samples were females and 19 were males. To generate Y-chromosome specific haplogroups A-M13, B-M60, F-M89 and Y Alu Polymorphism (YAP) markers, which define the deep ancestral haplotypes in the phylogenetic tree of Y-chromosome were used. Haplogroups A-M13 was found at high frequencies among Neolithic samples. Haplogroup F-M89 and YAP appeared to be more frequent among Meroitic, Post-Meroitic and Christian periods. Haplogroup B-M60 was not observed in the sample analyzed.
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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LMAO ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Exactly what makes you think I'm Hindu?! Also, I can read perfectly fine unlike YOU! Your dumb ass has the bad habit of reading an article without fully understanding it, and then putting coming to your own erroneous conclusions based misinterpreting what was truly said!! ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
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