posted
This is like a trend now. Some magazines or news websites take some youtube comments or twitters by random nobodies and try to turn it into news. It's not a real story. It's a real story when people identified by first and last name organize and do something, not people typing two sentences on social media. Anybody who likes the idea of Hannibal being black and this documentary depicting him that way should celebrate rather than paying attention to social media anonymous nobodies and feeling victimized.
If you want a real story find another article reacting negatively or questioning this casting in a known publication with a named author
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Yeah they never really settled more n enough people to set up trade entrepôts.
Still got Lebanese merchants in Senegal some committing 'racial suicide' marrying local girls and amalgamating culturally.
Shades of Hanno, Bafor 'religion', and doo.
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: @Jari
Exactly!
Anyways, going onto something different, one should note that Phoenician settlements were quite small. More smaller compared to Greek settlements and their numbers only numbered in the hundreds.
quote:Material of about the same date comes from Utica, and of seventh-or sixth century date from Leptis Magna (Lebda),Hadrumetum(Sousse, Tipasa, Siga (Rachgoun), Lixus( on the Oued Loukkos) and Mogador, the last being the most distant Phoenician settlement so far known. Finds of parallel date have been made at Motya in Sicily,Nora(Nuri), Sulcis and Tharros (Torre di S. Giovanni) in Sardinia and at Cadiz and Almunecar in Spain. It must be emphasized that, unlike the settlements which the Greeks were making in Sicily,Italy and elsewhere in the 8th and 7th centuries, all the Phoenician settlements including Carthage itself,remained small places, with perhaps no more than a few hundred settlers at most, for generations. Furthermore,they long remained political subordinate to Tyre as was to be expected having regard to their prime function as anchorages and supply points.
General History of Africa, II Ancient Civilizations of Africa, James Currey, p.247
This seems to confirm that the original Phoenician settlers were absorbed by the native Carthaginians. But lets not forget other non-black settlers like those from Europe...
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: This is like a trend now. Some magazines or news websites take some youtube comments or twitters by random nobodies and try to turn it into news. It's not a real story. It's a real story when people identified by first and last name organize and do something, not people typing two sentences on social media. Anybody who likes the idea of Hannibal being black and this documentary depicting him that way should celebrate rather than paying attention to social media anonymous nobodies and feeling victimized.
If you want a real story find another article reacting negatively or questioning this casting in a known publication with a named author
There have been debates over the race of Hannibal. This debate still continues till this day.
Here are some Youtube comments that where left below the clip:
quote:"The Phoenician port of Lpgy was founded at the beginning of the 1st millennium BC and first populated by the Garamantes. The city, which was part of the domain of Carthage, passed under the ephemeral control of Massinissa, King of Numidia. The Romans, who had quartered a garrison there during the war against Jugurtha, integrated it, in 46 BC, into the province of Africa while at the same time allowing it a certain measure of autonomy."
quote:"• 27 B.C.–14 A.D.The principate of Augustus is established. Rome is transformed into a city of marble. The Roman frontiers are expanded and semiconquered territories reinforced. Augustus reconciles with Parthia (22–19 B.C.), and his campaign against Garamantes in Africa is successful (19 B.C.). Many social and religious reforms are enacted. Gaul and its frontiers are organized (15–13 B.C.). The imperial mint at Lugdunum is founded (15–14 B.C.)."
quote:"The findings challenge a view dating back to Roman accounts that the Garamantes consisted of barbaric nomads and troublemakers on the edge of the Roman Empire.'
quote:"In the Sahara, population agglomeration is also evident in certain areas such as the Libyan Fezzan, which (albeit much later) also saw the emergence of an indigenous Saharan “civilization” in the form of the Garamantian Tribal Confederaion, the development of which has been described explicitly in terms of adaptation to increased aridity (Brooks, 2006; di Lernia et al., 2002; Mattingly et al., 2003)."
--Nick Brooks (2013): Beyond collapse: climate change and causality during the Middle Holocene Climatic Transition, 6400–5000 years before present, Geografisk Tidsskrift-Danish Journal of Geography, 112:2, 93-104
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Anybody who likes the idea of Hannibal being black and this documentary depicting him that way should celebrate rather than paying attention to social media anonymous nobodies and feeling victimized.
If you want a real story find another article reacting negatively or questioning this casting in a known publication with a named author
But you're right, it's rich to read the idioticy by these individuals, like Danny Brown.
quote:
Figurine of an israelite slave found in the Hecht Museum in the University of Haifa, Israel.
quote:The Earliest Known Image of the Virgin Mary (Circa 150 CE)
quote:
This fresco of Christ Among the Apostles is in an arcosolium of the Crypt of Ampliatus in the Catacombs of St. Domitilla in Rome. The Catacombs of Domitilla date from the 2nd through 4th centuries. According to W.F. Volbach, "The extent to which the type of the apostolic group as been developed suggests a 4th-century origin" for this particular fresco.
quote:
Original Depiction of Jesus, c. 3rd century Roman catacombs. The Christian catacombs are extremely important for the art history of Early Christian art, as they contain the great majority of examples from before about 400 AD, in fresco and sculpture.
quote:The wider Jewish world began taking more notice of the Ibo in 2012 - filmmaker Jeff Lieberman released a documentary “Re-emerging: The Jews of Nigeria,” and Northeastern University professor William F.S. Miles published “The Jews of Nigeria: An Afro-Judaic Odyssey."
I don't know what you're trying to tell, but thanks for your support post. I will post a few more for your collection, see below. And I am going to contact Dana on this one too.
quote: Mehri, Meheri, Mahri or Mahra (Arabic: مهري), also known as Arab Salah (Somali: Carab Saalax), is one of the largest tribes and a sub-tribe of the Himyarites inhabiting the Al Mahrah Governorate in Yemen, and other countries in the Arabian Peninsula such as the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. The Meheri also inhabit the autonomous region of Puntland in northeastern Somalia. they have been proud nomads and fishermen for thousands of years. the mehri population are an estimated 136,000. they're mother tounge is Mehri but they also speak Arabic and Somali.
Mehri or Mahri is a Modern South Arabian language, a branch of the greater Semitic language family, and is spoken by the mehri populations in isolated areas of the eastern part of Yemen and western Oman. It is a remnant of the ancient indigenous language group spoken in the southern Arabian Peninsula before the spread of Arabic along with the Muslim religion in the 7th century CE. It is also spoken today in Kuwait by guest workers originally from these areas.
Given the dominance of the Arabic language in the region over the past 1,400 years and the high bilingualism with Arabic among Mehri speakers, Mehri is at some risk of extinction. It is primarily a spoken language with little existing in print and almost no literacy in the written form among native speakers.
Mehri had 71,000 speakers in Yemen, 51,000 in Oman and 14,400 in Kuwait reported in 2000 and un-estimated amount in Somalia. Mehri speakers are known in the region as the Mahra tribe.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Moors from Mauritania...Sadly these are the people who once owned Darker African slaves but as you can see these people are a shade lighter than their slaves. anyway..
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Moors from Mauritania...Sadly these are the people who once owned Darker African slaves but as you can see these people are a shade lighter than their slaves. anyway..
Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
The Bidanes enslaved the Haratin, thats what the video is referencing.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Moors from Mauritania...Sadly these are the people who once owned Darker African slaves but as you can see these people are a shade lighter than their slaves. anyway..
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: The Bidanes enslaved the Haratin, thats what the video is referencing.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Moors from Mauritania...Sadly these are the people who once owned Darker African slaves but as you can see these people are a shade lighter than their slaves. anyway..
It really depends on what you consider to define an Ethnic group..do you consider culture the defining characteristic, if so then yes, the Bidanes/Haratin are techically different ethnic groups, as the Bidanes descend from Nomadic Berbers and Nomadic Arab invaders and the Heratin from Sedentary Africans from the Oasis of the Sahara and below the Desert..If not then they are just two North African people on Nomadic with some mixture from Invader Arabs and the other Sedentary also with some but less mixture with the Invaders. It has nothing to do with skin color but culture and Islamic interpretations and so called "Arab" lineages...
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: The Bidanes enslaved the Haratin, thats what the video is referencing.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Moors from Mauritania...Sadly these are the people who once owned Darker African slaves but as you can see these people are a shade lighter than their slaves. anyway..
Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?
Are Bidanes and Haratin ethnic groups?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Bidan means white. Hartin varies in meaning.
In Mauritania both Beydane and Haritane are ethnic Maurs.
The latter have no affiliation with any Gnawa ('Guineans') ethnicities.
Ethnicity is not biologically determined, though in general most, even all, members are akin by phenotype. Ethnicity is lifestyle and cultural trappings. Or at least that was the meaning last century.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: It really depends on what you consider to define an Ethnic group..do you consider culture the defining characteristic, if so then yes, the Bidanes/Haratin are techically different ethnic groups, as the Bidanes descend from Nomadic Berbers and Nomadic Arab invaders and the Heratin from Sedentary Africans from the Oasis of the Sahara and below the Desert..If not then they are just two North African people on Nomadic with some mixture from Invader Arabs and the other Sedentary also with some but less mixture with the Invaders. It has nothing to do with skin color but culture and Islamic interpretations and so called "Arab" lineages...
The Tuareg/ Kel is a cluster name for several ethnic groups (tribe). Nomadic "Berbers" are clusters of several ethnic groups (tribes). I like to know which group(-s) you are referring at.
posted
^^^Did you read what I wrote?, I dont know how I can answer you any further??
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Yes Both are Mauritanian Moors but the caste of Bidane is determined by Arab or Arab/Berber Nomadic Male lineage weather one is 1 shade Lighter or even in some cases Darker or the same shade as the Haratin.
In any case these are just Mauritanian Moors, lets not forget the Moors of other regions the Zenata of Morocco, linked to the Sanhadja and thus the Almoravids.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Bidan means white. Hartin varies in meaning.
In Mauritania both Beydane and Haritane are ethnic Maurs.
The latter have no affiliation with any Gnawa ('Guineans') ethnicities.
Ethnicity is not biologically determined, though in general most, even all, members are akin by phenotype. Ethnicity is lifestyle and cultural trappings. Or at least that was the meaning last century.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^Did you read what I wrote?, I dont know how I can answer you any further??
Of course I reed what you wrote. But did you read what I wrote?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
whatever
I respect your tremendous contributions to these fora over the many years and won't split hairs with you ... -- yet.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: You asked me what people were in the video..I answered
You asked me if they were ethnic groups...again I answered...
now you ask me what ethnic groups Im speaking of...again.
If you have something to say just say it...because at this point Im confused.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^Did you read what I wrote?, I dont know how I can answer you any further??
Of course I reed what you wrote. But did you read what I wrote?
What I asked was:
"Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?" I was not referring to the videos, because I had not seen them. You answered with "Bidanes and Haratin" but those aren't ethnic groups (tribes).
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Ish in my original post I never said anything about ethnic groups... how about we just get back to the topic
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: You asked me what people were in the video..I answered
You asked me if they were ethnic groups...again I answered...
now you ask me what ethnic groups Im speaking of...again.
If you have something to say just say it...because at this point Im confused.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^Did you read what I wrote?, I dont know how I can answer you any further??
Of course I reed what you wrote. But did you read what I wrote?
What I asked was:
"Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?" I was not referring to the videos, because I had not seen them. You answered with "Bidanes and Haratin" but those aren't ethnic groups (tribes).
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Ish in my original post I never said anything about ethnic groups... how about we just get back to the topic
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: You asked me what people were in the video..I answered
You asked me if they were ethnic groups...again I answered...
now you ask me what ethnic groups Im speaking of...again.
If you have something to say just say it...because at this point Im confused.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^Did you read what I wrote?, I dont know how I can answer you any further??
Of course I reed what you wrote. But did you read what I wrote?
What I asked was:
"Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?" I was not referring to the videos, because I had not seen them. You answered with "Bidanes and Haratin" but those aren't ethnic groups (tribes).
Was it the Ttan, Tgor or Tgos in particular who were envoled in the slave trade?
Dr. Anja Fischer did a pretty good job here, from what I can tell.
The term Tawariq originates from the Arabic language. It was first mentioned in the writings of Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406) (Casajus 2000: 19). The terms Touareg and Tuareg are incorrect transcriptions from the Arabic term Tawariq into French (Hureiki 2003: 58).
Tawariq is the plural of Tariq (masc.sg.) and not of Targui. The term Targui (Targi) is an invention of French colonial writers (Hureiki 2003: 58). Hence Targuia (Targia) is not the female singular form, but Tariqat. Consequently, Tuareg/Touareg is already the plural and it is not necessary to add a “s” in order to build the plural. In the Sahara region the term Tuareg is used as a swear word and is comparable with the use of the word gypsy.
MEANING:
Tawariq – The ghosts of the night?
The Arabic term Tariq (Tawariq) has different meanings. According to Hureiki it could be translated as “ghosts of the night” or “morning star” (In detail see Hureiki 2003:60ff.).
Tawariq – abandoned by God?
The term was first mentioned in scripts in Timbuktu in the 16th century (Hureiki 2003: 65). Tawariq has the linguistic root “t-r-q”. Mauritanian authors, declared enemies of the Imushar, started to spell the term Tawariq with the root “t-r-k” in the chronicles of Timbuktu during the 18th century. In doing so they traced the term back to the verb taraka (t-r-k), which means “to abandon”. Consequently, the interpretation of Tawariq meaning “abandoned by God” arose.
But not only Arab people walked right into the “orthographic trap” of the moors (Hureiki 2003: 66), but also European travelers like Duveyrier (1864: 317-318) and Barth (1965: 227-228), who visited the Arabic moors in Timbuktu.
Tawariq – The Abandoned?
According to the etymology of Banu Hilal, an Arabic conqueror of North Africa, the term Tuareg derives from the word Taraka (to abandon). The legend says that a hero called Dhiyab released a city from evil ghosts or a snake. As a reward he got 40 virgins, who he married to his followers. They abandoned the women and the fatherless children were called Tuareg (Klute 2013: 182 from Norris 1975).
Tuareg – Targa?
It is said, that the origin of the term stems from an area close to Ubari in Libya called Targa (Keenan 1977: 15; Sudlow 2001: 3)
But the question is, why the Tuareg society should be named after that region, when the people of the area were called Garamantes. There is no historical evidence that prove any connection between Targa and Tawariq. The region is also called Targa (according to Foucauld). The term targa is translated as “irrigation canal” in the dictionary of Kabyle-Francais (Dallet 1982). Hence the term "Targa" (t-r-g) and "Tawariq/Tariq/Tuareg " (t-r-g) do not have the same root. An irrigation canal is also called Tagohamt in Tamahaq. Furthermore, Arabic chroniclers reported on a society called “Tawariq” with the singular “Tariq” and not “Targa” ever since the Middle Ages.
The development of the Berber term Targa/Targa as the overall term for society into the Arabic term Tawariq (Tuareg) would be rather astonishing from a linguistic perspective.
Until now the only clear thing is that the transcription from the Arabic term Tawariq into T(o)uareg is a colonial fabrication.
The etymology of the term Tuareg is still not resolved and at the same time not really relevant, because members of the society called themselves Imuhar/Imuschar or Imascheren and not Tuareg.
Although the term Tuareg contains a certain “allure” among Europeans and Americans, the term is used as swear word in North and West Africa.
In contemporary Europe it is common to no longer call Roma and Sinti peoples Gypsies and the Inuit no longer Eskimos. Similarly, in the near future, the Imuhar/Imuschar/Imascheren are hopefully no longer called Tuareg.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
We share this knowledge Jari
Who are my teachers? All of them (meaning everybody including you in particular).
I'mjjust another point of view
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: No splitting hairs bro if Im wrong just let me know you know more about this than me..
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: whatever
I respect your tremendous contributions to these fora over the many years and won't split hairs with you ... -- yet.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
But of course Bidane and Haritane are ethnic groups. They're two sub-ethnies of Maur. Zenaga are a sub-ethny of Bidane.
Why wouldn't Bafor be the primary component of Haritane? Haratine have no love for Soninke, Wolof, or halPulaaren less lone identify as such.
Mauritania is a nasty country and I'd rather claim Senegal though Futa Toro is on both sides of the river.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: You asked me what people were in the video..I answered
You asked me if they were ethnic groups...again I answered...
now you ask me what ethnic groups Im speaking of...again.
If you have something to say just say it...because at this point Im confused.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^Did you read what I wrote?, I dont know how I can answer you any further??
Of course I reed what you wrote. But did you read what I wrote?
What I asked was:
"Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?" I was not referring to the videos, because I had not seen them. You answered with "Bidanes and Haratin" but those aren't ethnic groups (tribes).
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: But of course Bidane and Haritane are ethnic groups. They're two sub-ethnies of Maur. Zenaga are a sub-ethny of Bidane.
Why wouldn't Bafor be the primary component of Haritane? Haratine have no love for Soninke, Wolof, or halPulaaren less lone identify as such.
Mauritania is a nasty country and I'd rather claim Senegal though Futa Toro is on both sides of the river.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: You asked me what people were in the video..I answered
You asked me if they were ethnic groups...again I answered...
now you ask me what ethnic groups Im speaking of...again.
If you have something to say just say it...because at this point Im confused.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^Did you read what I wrote?, I dont know how I can answer you any further??
Of course I reed what you wrote. But did you read what I wrote?
What I asked was:
"Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?" I was not referring to the videos, because I had not seen them. You answered with "Bidanes and Haratin" but those aren't ethnic groups (tribes).
So, we're talking about the Zenaga (Sanhaja) from Mauri specifically?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
We already KNOW that Berbers origins lie and Africa and again we KNOW the native population of Carthage were African.
Can we PLEASE keep thread about Hannibal? I don't know how this thread got about certain Berber groups.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: So, we're talking about the Zenaga (Sanhaja) from Mauri specifically? [/QB]
Haratin in Mauritania[edit] See also: Slavery in Mauritania In Mauritania, the Haratin form one of the largest ethnic groups and account for as much as 40% of the Mauritanians. They are sometimes referred to as "Black Moors",[2] in contrast to Beidane, or "White Moors". The Haratin are Arabic-speakers and generally claim a Berber or Arab origin. This is unlike the sub-Saharan African peoples in southern Mauritania (such as the Wolof and the Soninke). The Haratine, in contrast, consider themselves part of the Moorish community. Their origin is unclear: some are thought to be the descendants of traded slaves from other regions of Africa (Central and Eastern Africa Sahel region) while others are thought to be descendants of a sedentary population of who have lived in the location since the Neolithic period when the Sahara was occupied by black skinned people.[3]
Most Haratine are descended from Bambara, Fulani, Soninké and Wolof people, groups that fled south beyond the Senegal River valley when the Berbers, and later the Moors, settled in the region during the 3rd century CE. Those who remained intermarried with the Berbers and Arabs.[4] They were historically the rulers of kingdoms spread all over North Africa.[5]
Although the Mauritanian government has issued emancipation declarations, discrimination against Haratin is still widespread, and some continue to be, for all practical purposes, enslaved, while large numbers live in other forms of informal dependence on their former masters. Amnesty International reported that in 1994 90,000 Haratine still lived as "property" of their master, with the report indicating that "slavery in Mauritania is most dominant within the traditional upper class of the Moors."[6]
The report also observed that "[s]ocial attitudes have changed among most urban Moors, but in rural areas, the ancient divide is still very alive." There have been many attempts to assess the real extension of slavery in modern Mauritania, but these have mostly been frustrated by the Nouakchott government's official stance that the practice has been eliminated. Amnesty further estimated that some 300,000 freed slaves continued to serve their former masters because of psychological or economic dependence.[6]
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Aw s h I t man
Which Sahara or Sahel society did not hold people in slavery?
While there's no overt trade today and to westerners the word used would be client not slave.
Better to be a client of Twareg or Fulani than of a Maur (though when they bring their clients into the USA for instance the Maur are never condescending to them in public).
-:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: What I asked was:
"Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?" I was not referring to the videos, because I had not seen them. You answered with "Bidanes and Haratin" ...
quote:Was it the Ttan, Tgor or Tgos in particular who were envoled in the slave trade?
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: So, we're talking about the Zenaga (Sanhaja) from Mauri specifically?
Haratin in Mauritania[edit] See also: Slavery in Mauritania In Mauritania, the Haratin form one of the largest ethnic groups and account for as much as 40% of the Mauritanians. They are sometimes referred to as "Black Moors",[2] in contrast to Beidane, or "White Moors". The Haratin are Arabic-speakers and generally claim a Berber or Arab origin. This is unlike the sub-Saharan African peoples in southern Mauritania (such as the Wolof and the Soninke). The Haratine, in contrast, consider themselves part of the Moorish community. Their origin is unclear: some are thought to be the descendants of traded slaves from other regions of Africa (Central and Eastern Africa Sahel region) while others are thought to be descendants of a sedentary population of who have lived in the location since the Neolithic period when the Sahara was occupied by black skinned people.[3]
Most Haratine are descended from Bambara, Fulani, Soninké and Wolof people, groups that fled south beyond the Senegal River valley when the Berbers, and later the Moors, settled in the region during the 3rd century CE. Those who remained intermarried with the Berbers and Arabs.[4] They were historically the rulers of kingdoms spread all over North Africa.[5]
Although the Mauritanian government has issued emancipation declarations, discrimination against Haratin is still widespread, and some continue to be, for all practical purposes, enslaved, while large numbers live in other forms of informal dependence on their former masters. Amnesty International reported that in 1994 90,000 Haratine still lived as "property" of their master, with the report indicating that "slavery in Mauritania is most dominant within the traditional upper class of the Moors."[6]
The report also observed that "[s]ocial attitudes have changed among most urban Moors, but in rural areas, the ancient divide is still very alive." There have been many attempts to assess the real extension of slavery in modern Mauritania, but these have mostly been frustrated by the Nouakchott government's official stance that the practice has been eliminated. Amnesty further estimated that some 300,000 freed slaves continued to serve their former masters because of psychological or economic dependence.[6]
That is a western interpretation. You still haven't told my which ethnic (tribe) groups in particular did what and what not. And what kind of slave work did/ does the Haratine fulfill?
What I notice in your post are building contradictions.
-"They are sometimes referred to as "Black Moors",[2] in contrast to Beidane, or "White Moors". The Haratin are Arabic-speakers and generally claim a Berber or Arab origin. This is unlike the sub-Saharan African peoples in southern Mauritan"
-Most Haratine are descended from Bambara, Fulani, Soninké and Wolof people, groups that fled south beyond the Senegal River valley when the Berbers, and later the Moors, settled in the region during the 3rd century CE. Those who remained intermarried with the Berbers and Arabs.[4] They were historically the rulers of kingdoms spread all over North Africa.[5]
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Aw s h I t man
Which Sahara or Sahel society did not hold people in slavery?
While there's no overt trade today and to westerners the word used would be client not slave.
Better to be a client of Twareg or Fulani than of a Maur (though when they bring their clients into the USA for instance the Maur are never condescending to them in public).
-:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: What I asked was:
"Can you show which ethnic groups "enslaved" other ethnic groups?" I was not referring to the videos, because I had not seen them. You answered with "Bidanes and Haratin" ...
quote:Was it the Ttan, Tgor or Tgos in particular who were envoled in the slave trade?
I know the client was to pay his/ her debt, then go free. Or at least that in the traditional sense. But slavery has existed in different societies, so yes that makes it complex.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Look it up in google:
beidane haratine slave
4,360 results
_________________
this is some rare topic you can't find information on?
How does that answer the question I am addressing, on ethnic (tribal) designation? Why is it they never write they specific ethnic designation? And yes of course I can find info on "beidane haratine slave" in any search engine. However, that is not the question.
I took a quick look at "DOCUMENTARY: THE LONG PATH TO FREEDOM". There are "former slaves" of different color complexions.
quote: Caste is the most specific of these crucial concepts. When applied to West African societies, it is used in the very general meaning of the division of societies into hierarchically-ranked, endogamous-occupational groups. The relationship between these has ritual as well as economic significance.
All of the groups in the western Sudan who were integrated and functioning parts of one or more indigenous empires of the past, share a basic common class structure: Free People (nobles and commoners), Casted People (different craftsmen), Artisans and Entertainers (griots), Freed People (former slaves) and Slaves. Likewise, the caste division of these structures is largely the same (weavers, leatherworkers, entertainers, etc...). The similarly of social structure, the migratory nature of the area’s population, the fact that marriage rules apply more strictly to first marriages and become progressively looser thereafter, and that except for slave status, the offspring’s status follows the father’s, permits a much greater social mobility over a generation or two than would otherwise seem likely.
To understand Mauritanian society, one must understand its ethnic groups, its tribes, social-economic classes and its castes. The major ethic groups and subdivision are as follows:
The Hassaniya speakers who predominate over the majority of the country except along the river are divisible into two crucial subgroups – the Beydane or white Moors and the Haratine or black Moors. The Beydane are traditionally further divided into Z’waya (religious or marabout groups), M’allmin (craftsmen) and Igawen (entertainers). Besides the traditional occupation by which these subgroups are identified, they generally involve themselves in some other types commercial trading, livestock raising or both.
The Haratine are commonly referred to as “freed slaves,” in contrast to the term Abid that means a captured slave. They are viewed as the descendants of former black slaves that were originally taken from along the river, Mali or Senegal. Some live as an integral part of a larger Beydane encampment. Others have their own encampments and work as herders or are settled in Haratine agricultural communities. Haratines generally categorize themselves in the following groups: Arabs, Africans or distinctly different group. While they are generally held in low esteem in some areas of Mauritania, Haratine are considered higher than *Zenaga. This is especially true in eastern areas where some Haratine groups have risen above their normal sharecropper role to acquire considerable herds of animals.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: So, we're talking about the Zenaga (Sanhaja) from Mauri specifically?
Haratin in Mauritania[edit] See also: Slavery in Mauritania In Mauritania, the Haratin form one of the largest ethnic groups and account for as much as 40% of the Mauritanians. They are sometimes referred to as "Black Moors",[2] in contrast to Beidane, or "White Moors". The Haratin are Arabic-speakers and generally claim a Berber or Arab origin. This is unlike the sub-Saharan African peoples in southern Mauritania (such as the Wolof and the Soninke). The Haratine, in contrast, consider themselves part of the Moorish community. Their origin is unclear: some are thought to be the descendants of traded slaves from other regions of Africa (Central and Eastern Africa Sahel region) while others are thought to be descendants of a sedentary population of who have lived in the location since the Neolithic period when the Sahara was occupied by black skinned people.[3]
Most Haratine are descended from Bambara, Fulani, Soninké and Wolof people, groups that fled south beyond the Senegal River valley when the Berbers, and later the Moors, settled in the region during the 3rd century CE. Those who remained intermarried with the Berbers and Arabs.[4] They were historically the rulers of kingdoms spread all over North Africa.[5]
Although the Mauritanian government has issued emancipation declarations, discrimination against Haratin is still widespread, and some continue to be, for all practical purposes, enslaved, while large numbers live in other forms of informal dependence on their former masters. Amnesty International reported that in 1994 90,000 Haratine still lived as "property" of their master, with the report indicating that "slavery in Mauritania is most dominant within the traditional upper class of the Moors."[6]
The report also observed that "[s]ocial attitudes have changed among most urban Moors, but in rural areas, the ancient divide is still very alive." There have been many attempts to assess the real extension of slavery in modern Mauritania, but these have mostly been frustrated by the Nouakchott government's official stance that the practice has been eliminated. Amnesty further estimated that some 300,000 freed slaves continued to serve their former masters because of psychological or economic dependence.[6]
That is a western interpretation. You still haven't told my which ethnic (tribe) groups in particular did what and what not. And what kind of slave work did/ does the Haratine fulfill?
What I notice in your post are building contradictions.
Mauritania has a caste system and it doesn't go strictly by tribal groups and contradictory aspects are a reality there. What is different from India is that there is more mixing between the groups. The upper caste are those people who claim more Arab ancestry.
Mauritania’s socio-cultural situation often strikes outsiders as unusually complex and difficult to understand. It certainly is different from which most westerners are acculturated and provides a refreshing opportunity to cleanse one’s mind of numerous ethnocentric stereotypes. This is especially true of four crucial concepts: tribe, ethnic group, class and caste. These four terms are continuously confused and the term “tribe” is often misused. A tribe is a political unit. This unit may claim descent from a common ancestor or not. What is important is they recognize belonging to a unit that is based on some present or past common interest in exerting power: either to obtain or protect themselves, or their resources. Tribes are concrete entities made up of individual members who can gather, appoint leaders, make war, etc. People can be admitted into or thrown out of a tribe. For westerners, a tribe is very similar to a Scottish clan. An ethnic group is a somewhat more abstract entity than a tribe. Its existence is based on the feeling of a shared identity on the part of people who possess a common life style, language, religion, or other major cultural institution. One belongs to an ethnic group because both the individual and others “feel” they belong. A person is neither admitted into nor thrown out of an ethnic group. Often, people of the same ethnic group deny the legitimacy of each other’s claimed identity. There is no inherent political basis to ethnic identity, though political units can manipulate ethnic differences for such purposes. Members of the same ethnic group need not be allies and in fact, may have been enemies. Class is a still more abstract concept than ethnic group. People are members of the same class when someone “classifies” them together as members of a certain class. There is not a prerequisite for ascribing membership. Someone can be classified as a member of the working class based on the job he does even if he believes he is a descendant of the King of England and entitled to be considered as royalty. Caste is the most specific of these crucial concepts. When applied to West African societies, it is used in the very general meaning of the division of societies into hierarchically-ranked, endogamous-occupational groups. The relationship between these has ritual as well as economic significance. All of the groups in the western Sudan who were integrated and functioning parts of one or more indigenous empires of the past, share a basic common class structure: Free People (nobles and commoners), Casted People (different craftsmen), Artisans and Entertainers (griots), Freed People (former slaves) and Slaves. Likewise, the caste division of these structures is largely the same (weavers, leatherworkers, entertainers, etc...). The similarly of social structure, the migratory nature of the area’s population, the fact that marriage rules apply more strictly to first marriages and become progressively looser thereafter, and that except for slave status, the offspring’s status follows the father’s, permits a much greater social mobility over a generation or two than would otherwise seem likely. To understand Mauritanian society, one must understand its ethnic groups, its tribes, social-economic classes and its castes. The major ethic groups and subdivision are as follows: The Hassaniya speakers who predominate over the majority of the country except along the river are divisible into two crucial subgroups – the Beydane or white Moors and the Haratine or black Moors. The Beydane are traditionally further divided into Z’waya (religious or marabout groups), M’allmin (craftsmen) and Igawen (entertainers). Besides the traditional occupation by which these subgroups are identified, they generally involve themselves in some other types commercial trading, livestock raising or both. The Haratine are commonly referred to as “freed slaves,” in contrast to the term Abid that means a captured slave. They are viewed as the descendants of former black slaves that were originally taken from along the river, Mali or Senegal. Some live as an integral part of a larger Beydane encampment. Others have their own encampments and work as herders or are settled in Haratine agricultural communities. Haratines generally categorize themselves in the following groups: Arabs, Africans or distinctly different group. While they are generally held in low esteem in some areas of Mauritania, Haratine are considered higher than Zenaga. This is especially true in eastern areas where some Haratine groups have risen above their normal sharecropper role to acquire considerable herds of animals. The Halpulaar are speakers of the Pulaar language. The largest group is the Toucouleur, and make up the agricultural populations that dominate both sides of the Senegal River. Prior to colonial domination, they lived under a highly stratified theocracy. While the traditional division of their society into Rimbe (free men), Nyenybe (artisans) and Maccube (captives) still has meaning in terms of individual social status, it no longer dictates actual occupations or the power relationships between different subgroups and particular individuals. The Peul (Fulbe, Fula or Fulani) are Halpulaar cattle pastoralists whose migration patterns often include Mali and Senegal. In terms of social status, the Peul largely function as a semi-itinerant cattle-owning class, equivalent to status to the Trobe (Halpulaar religious nobles). Some confusion as to their practices and class exist because many of their former slaves (Rimiibe) have adopted their lifestyle and present themselves as “authentic Peul.” The Soninke (Sarakolle) are predominant in the Guidimaka region, which borders eastern Senegal and Mali. They still maintain a highly stratified social structure and their organization closely resembles that of the Malian Bambara. This social structure includes slavery. It stresses hard work, close cooperation and extremely tight extended family relations under the authority of a patriarch. From the beginning of their history, the Soninke have been closely associated with male exploitation of migratory economic activities either as traders or laborers. Local power was traditionally allotted and maintained by several powerful lineage groups. Perhaps the greatest reversal they have suffered since independence is to see their region of Mauritania, which was a favored commercial river trade outlet in colonial times, become a backwater to a distant coastal capital. The Wolof is the single largest ethnic group in Senegal. While they too have a traditionally stratified class society, its traditional divisions are largely meaningless today. This is especially true among the expatriate communities found in Mauritania near the border region around Rosso and in the capital, Nouakchott. Because they are the predominant group in Senegal, they can more easily integrate into the Senegalese society. Therefore, their presence in Mauritania generally represents a response to opportunities that already existed and they profitably exploited (i.e. urban skills such as carpentry, masonry, etc.). Of all these groups, only the Hassaniya-speaking Beydanes and Haratine have tribes. The Toucouleur, Peul, Wolof and Soninke are not tribes nor do they belong to tribes. They are united in extended family groups of different sizes and cohesion while their settlements may be divided into sections referred to as Halagaiz, Halgay or Halagai (circles). The Toucouleur and Wolof live in settled communities along the river that are not only permanent but are quite ancient in some cases. Such settlements are often characterized by substantial investments in both personal and community physical infrastructure (houses and mosque). Depending on size, they are further divisible into neighborhoods (quartiers) and family concessions. The same is true of the Soninke, except that these communities are usually inland and more cohesive than those of the Toucouleur and Wolof. The Peul tend to live in smaller hamlets (wuro) usually composed of straw huts that are sometimes surrounded by flimsy fences. If the whole family travels with the herd, these are occupied seasonally. Other times, only specific herders (teenage boys) will leave with the animals and the others stay home. This pattern generally is referred to as transhumance – having fixed home locations but with substantial seasonal movement of at least some members of the household. However, these fixed locations are neither as permanent nor do they function as an interdependent community as do Toucouleur communities. Of course today the situation is rapidly changing. In the last two decades, the country’s population has gone from being two-thirds nomad, one-third sedentary, to exactly the opposite (one-third nomad, two-thirds sedentary). The change has been so recent that Mauritania does not yet have a well-established urban population with severed ties from the rural population. Most urban dwellers from the head of state to the unemployed squatter, are still closely tied to rural values and specific rural communities. Hassaniya or Moor culture has traditionally been a nomadic society with links to trading, religious centers, and oases areas. Most of the relationships that unite people are therefore more social than residential due to the fluid residential patterns. Geographic identity is very important. It usually occurs on the level of regional identities and is expressed when people find themselves third-party strangers (i.e. in Nouakchott, people often see a unity among those from Trarza, as opposed to others from Tagant or Adrar). This phenomenon is being somewhat both expressed and catered to by the government’s decision to denote administrative regions by their traditional names. The social cement that unties people extends across regions. Basically, a Beydane belongs to one of a large number of tribes or clans (Qabila) whose members theoretically descend from a common ancestor. These, however, generally are large and ancient to the point of having little meaning in terms of the management of everyday life. As a result they break down into smaller factions called Fakhdh or fractions. In theory, members of the same Fakhdh also descend from a common descendant of the original founder of the Qabila. In reality, membership in both a Qabila and Fakhdh can change, which are as much an alliance of people with similar social status as they are actual kin groups. It is usually the Fakhdh that is the actual functioning alliance and members of different Fakhdh of the same Qabila may be actually allied against each other. The Fakhdh themselves are composed of patrilineal extended families (father and sons) called Ahel. The Ahel are the most fundamentally important kin units, especially since divorce is quite frequent in many areas and the nuclear family of husband, wife and children is unstable. In the rural areas, the basic living unit is the Khayma or tent. It is generally synonymous with the nuclear family. The Frig is the encampment of which three different categories are generally recognized: (1) small Frig from 1-15 tents, generally referred to as a Khyam; (2) Frig of 10-20 tents called Nezla; and (3) very large encampments are called V’rig Massa. The Massa where the chief has his tent is referred to as Helle or El Qariya (the tribal center). It can be said that tribal and social barriers tend to merge and Mauritanians from all areas can be found in government positions and all tend to interact socially. While change is occurring in regard to ethnic, tribal and class identity, the old categories are still operative, applicable, and crucial for a proper understanding of the country’s present socio-economic situation. A brief description such as this cannot do justice to either the complexity of the subject for the reader who wishes to acquire a profound knowledge of the culture. It is hoped, however, that it will provide what is necessary to understanding the basic milieu.
In December 2014, Mohamed Mkhaïtir, a blogger who was held in pre-trial detention for almost a year, was sentenced to death for apostasy at the Nouadhibou Court in northwest Mauritania. He had written a blog criticizing the use of religion to marginalize certain groups in society, and was still in detention at the end of 2015.2
In January, the Rosso Court in southern Mauritania sentenced Brahim Bilal Ramdane, Djiby Sow and Biram Dah Abeid, a former presidential candidate and president of the Initiative for the Resurgence of the Abolitionist Movement in Mauritania, to two years in prison for belonging to an unrecognized organization, participating in an unauthorized assembly and assaulting security officers. The three activists were arrested in November 2014 with other protesters while campaigning against slavery and raising awareness among the local population of the land rights of people of slave descent. Their sentences were upheld by the Appeal Court of Aleg in August 2015.3
In August, the UN Special Rapporteur on the rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and association called on the National Assembly to reject a draft law on civil society associations that had been approved by the Council of Ministers without public consultation.
In November, retired colonel Oumar Ould Beibacar was arrested at a political rally in the capital Nouakchott, during which he spoke of the extrajudicial execution of military officers in the 1990s. He was detained at the Nouakchott Directorate for National Security and released six days later but remained under judicial supervision.
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NEW MAURITANIAN ANTI-SLAVERY LAW IS WORTHLESS IF IT IS NOT IMPLEMENTED.
Press Release
Minority Rights Group International (MRGI) and Anti-Slavery International welcomed the adoption of a new anti-slavery law in Mauritania but said that it will be worthless if it is not implemented.
Slavery has been criminalised in Mauritania since 2007 but only one conviction has so far been achieved, and the perpetrator not only was handed a sentence of less than the legal minimum provided by the law, but also walked free pending an appeal that has never taken place.
“The real issue is the lack of political and judicial will to end slavery”, said Carla Clarke, Senior Legal Officer at MRGI.
“Passing legislation is relatively simple. Implementing it however requires real commitment which we simply have not seen”, she said. “Instead, we’ve seen the complete opposite with numerous complaints brought under the existing 2007 law failing because of lack of adequate investigation by the authorities or cases simply languishing in the courts without any hearings.”
Sarah Mathewson, Africa Programme Co-ordinator at Anti-Slavery International said:
“There are positives in the new law but if we see the same level of resistance to implementation as with the current law, then it will be worthless.”
The new law was passed last Thursday 13 August and replaces an earlier 2007 law which criminalised slavery in Mauritania for the first time. This law declares slavery a crime against humanity and raises the act of slavery from an ‘offence’ to a ‘crime’, raising sentences of imprisonment to 10 to 20 years. It also creates special tribunals in each region to address issues related to slavery, although the details of the new system have not been revealed.
Moreover, the law is lacking in provisions relating to protecting the rights of victims of slavery and takes no account of the amendments proposed by civil society and the UN Human Rights Council.
The most positive element of the new legislation is allowing third party human rights organisations to bring cases on behalf of victims. So far the victims have commonly faced pressure to drop their complaints as they remain economically and psychologically dependent on their masters and mistresses.
However, the new law was adopted during the same week that a draft law restricting the freedom of association of NGOs was being discussed, potentially threatening the ability of organisations campaigning against slavery to act on behalf of the victims.
In an example of the treatment such organisations commonly receive from the government, the leaders of the Initiative for the Resurgence of Abolitionism (IRA) are currently in jail for campaigning against slavery, convicted of ‘belonging to an illegal organisation’, in spite of repeated attempts to submit applications for official registration without any response or explanation.
Sarah Mathewson said:
“It is ironic that the Mauritanian government congratulates itself on passing the new anti-slavery law on the one hand but is prosecuting anti-slavery activists on spurious charges and is planning to quash whatever little freedom anti-slavery organisations have with the other.”
In December 2014, Mohamed Mkhaïtir, a blogger who was held in pre-trial detention for almost a year, was sentenced to death for apostasy at the Nouadhibou Court in northwest Mauritania. He had written a blog criticizing the use of religion to marginalize certain groups in society, and was still in detention at the end of 2015.2
In January, the Rosso Court in southern Mauritania sentenced Brahim Bilal Ramdane, Djiby Sow and Biram Dah Abeid, a former presidential candidate and president of the Initiative for the Resurgence of the Abolitionist Movement in Mauritania, to two years in prison for belonging to an unrecognized organization, participating in an unauthorized assembly and assaulting security officers. The three activists were arrested in November 2014 with other protesters while campaigning against slavery and raising awareness among the local population of the land rights of people of slave descent. Their sentences were upheld by the Appeal Court of Aleg in August 2015.3
In August, the UN Special Rapporteur on the rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and association called on the National Assembly to reject a draft law on civil society associations that had been approved by the Council of Ministers without public consultation.
In November, retired colonel Oumar Ould Beibacar was arrested at a political rally in the capital Nouakchott, during which he spoke of the extrajudicial execution of military officers in the 1990s. He was detained at the Nouakchott Directorate for National Security and released six days later but remained under judicial supervision.
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Slavery in Tunisia was a specific manifestation of the Arab slave trade. Abolished on 23 January 1846 by Ahmed I Bey, then by France after the installation of the French Protectorate of Tunisia, slavery nevertheless persisted until the beginning of the twentieth century.
Tunisia was in a similar position to that of Algeria, with a geographic position which linked it the main Trans-Saharan routes. It received caravans from Fezzan and Ghadamès, which consisted solely, in the eighteenth century, of gold powder and slaves, according to contemporary witnesses. At the beginning of the nineteenth century, slaves arrived annually in numbers ranging between 500 and 1,200. From Tunisia they were carried on to the ports of the Levant.
Tunsian slaves derived from two principle zones: Europe and a large area stretching from West Africa to Lake Chad. The kingdoms of Bornu and the region of Fezzan provided the majority of caravans. The greater part of the slaves were reduced to slavery in local wars between rival tribes or in abduction raids. Caravan routes from many Saharan centres terminated at Tunis. In addition to Ghadamès, which connected the beylik to Fezzan, Morzouk and the Kingdom of Bornou, Timbuktu was in regular contact with the Beylik via the caravan route which passed through M'zab and Djerid and put the country in touch with African groups and peoples of a large zone touching the Bambara lands, the city of Djenne and several regions of the central West Africa. The names of slaves and freedmen reported in archival documents confirm these multiple, diverse origins: beseide common names like Burnaoui, Ghdamsi and Ouargli, are names indicating origin in other centres of West Africa like Jennaoui and Tombouctaoui.
European slaves, for their part, were captured in the course of razzias on the coast of the European lands, mostly Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and from the capture of European ships. The men were used for diverse tasks (galleys, slave drivers, public works, etc.), while women were used as domestic workers and in harems. Unlike the men, it was very rare for women to be freed, although the women often converted to Islam.
On 29 April 1841, Ahmed I Bey had an interview with Thomas Reade who advised him to ban the slave trade. Ahmed I was convinced of the necessity of this action; himself the son of a slave, he was considered open to progress and quick to act against all forms of fanaticism. He decided to ban the export of slaves the same day that he met with Reade. Proceeding in stages, he closed the slave market of Tunis in August and declared in December 1842 that everyone born in the country would thereafter be free.[8]
To alleviate discontent, Ahmed obtained fatwas from the ulama beforehand from the Bach-mufti Sidi Brahim Riahi, which forbade slavery, categorically and without any precedent in the Arab Muslim world. The complete abolition of slavery throughout the country was declared in a decree of 23 January 1846.[9][10] However, although the abolition was accepted by the urban population, it was rejected - according to Ibn Abi Dhiaf - at Djerba, among the Bedouins, and among the peasants who required a cheap and obedient workforce.[11]
This resistance justified the second abolition announced by the French in a decree of Ali III Bey on 28 May 1890.[12] This decree promulgated financial sanctions (in the form of fines) and penal sanctions (in the form of imprisonment) for those who continued to engage in the slave trade or to keep slaves as servants. The colonial accounts tended to pass over the first abolition and focus on the second.
Over the second half of the nineteenth century, the majority of the old slaves, male or female, formed an urban underclass, relying on their former masters or living in precarious circumstances (foundouks on the outskirts). Often they work as bread sellers, street merchants, masseurs in the Moorish baths, domestic servants or simple criminals, easily nabbed by the municipal police for drunkenness or petty larceny. Up to 10% of prostitutes in Tunis are descended from former slaves.[13] After abolition, then, a process of impoverishment and social marginalisation of the old slaves took place because enfranchisement had secured legal emancipation but not social freedom.
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Huffington Post, Black Voices
Slavery’s Legacy Still Echoes In Tunisia’s All-Black Village 03/11/2015
He is black, she is white. They get to know each other as their families’ goats and sheep graze under the row of palm trees that separates his village of Gosba from her village of Drouj. They fall in love. The family of Soulef, who is white, refuses to let her marry Ameur, a black man. She does not care and goes to live with him on the other side of the palm trees. The year is 2000.
Fifteen years later, the inhabitants of Gosba continue to tell the story of “the runaway” who came to live with them. Today she lives in a one-room abode on some thin mattresses, with her husband and their three sons. A small TV, its images flickering with fatigue since it is never turned off, is perched on a wooden chair. There is nothing else. Soulef says that until last year she had not seen her family for 14 years, even though they live less than a mile away. They could almost wave to one another from afar.
Not even on a map
Those who know of it call it the “village of blacks,” located in the Medenine region of southeastern Tunisia.
Somewhere in the district of Sidi Makhlouf, Gosba does not appear on any map. The village has about 5,000 inhabitants and one concrete road, the one that comes from Sidi Makhlouf, the capital of the district. Some paths link the various plots, which are spaced widely apart.
From a distance, it looks like a huge wasteland dotted with brick houses. Up close, it looks the same. The houses are mostly the color of the cement they were built with, except for a few that have been painted for weddings.
The economy is practically non-existent. A few men are farmers, but it is hard to tell what they grow. Others are fishermen or hold seasonal employment on the tourist island of Djerba. Women spend their days collecting shellfish on a beach just over six miles away.
And yes, everyone in Gosba is black. Well, almost.
An invisible wall
Only 10 or so women stand out for their “whiteness.” Other than Soulef, they all come from “far away.” All the other inhabitants of Gosba were born here.
Seen from Gosba, the surrounding villages of Drouj and Sidi Makhlouf are “white” villages. It’s as if an invisible wall cuts Gosba off from the world, forcing the “blacks” to remain among themselves.
Mixed marriages are very rare. There are many legends which seek to explain this separation, passed down from fathers or grandfathers.
Béchir, an English teacher, firmly believes in his version. According to him, three slaves, all brothers, who worked on a plantation on the other side of the palm trees during the 19th century stood up to their “white” master. The master ended up placing them on the land that constitutes Gosba today.
The community grew with the abolition of slavery, a process that started officially in 1846 but was not effectively completed until the end of the 19th century. From these three brothers the three Gosba tribes were born.
If she doubts the truth of the legends, Italian researcher Marta Scaglioni, based in Gosba, considers it “very likely” that the inhabitants of Gosba are the direct descendants of slaves. “It is on the slave trade route,” she explains. The slaves came from Niger and Chad.
Residents explain that, in the area, they are sometimes called “Abid Buntun,” the “servants” of the Buntun, the region’s historically main ethnic group.
One bus for whites, one bus for blacks
Each morning, the school bus leaves Gosba to take the “black” children to school in Sidi Makhlouf. At the same time, another bus takes the “white” children from Drouj to the same school. As Drouj is situated between Gosba and Sidi Makhlouf, logic would dictate that only one bus is needed.
“But those in Drouj refuse,” says Béchir, the English teacher. He does not hesitate to speak of racism. “My teacher friends in Drouj tell me that their daughters will not marry a black. That’s what they say: ‘a black.’”
Gosba’s inhabitants, however, are comfortable with the colour of their skin. “I am not Arab, I am black,” explains Mohammed Naroui, a police officer who married a white woman from the outside. “If there is a football match between Algeria and Senegal, I will be for Senegal.”
Messaoud, director of the youth centre in Sidi Makhlouf for the last three years, is of mixed race from his grandfather’s side of the family and is one of the lightest-skinned in the community. Yet he does not hesitate to call himself black. Nonetheless, according to him, speaking of racism is old-fashioned. “Before, blacks could not get jobs with the district or high-level jobs with companies. But, little by little, it is starting to change.”
Ameur and Soulef, a modern-day Romeo and Juliet, acknowledge that racism exists, but say it is the standard of living that divides the population today.
Gosba is poor, very poor. Running water is scarce, the police absent, as well as most activities. In Sidi Makhlouf, which has the same number of inhabitants, there are numerous shops and cafés.
Messaoud told his superiors that “if there were justice, the youth centre [which he heads] would be in Gosba, where the youth are marginalized.”
“Youths in Gosba have a reputation for being delinquents. The state’s absence has damned a generation,” he says.
The black inhabitants of Gosba are seen by their neighbors as being poor or criminals. The lack of diversity and contact do not help. More than a skin color, “black” has become a social class in Gosba.
In 2013, Messaoud staged a play at the youth centre about a love story between black and white, under the palm trees.
“If we are oppressed, it is also because we do not step up and speak. We have to address our mindset for anything to change.”
posted
LOL @ Lioness, you're weird, why you post what I posted, only to repost it?LOL
You say;:
"Mauritania has a caste system and it doesn't go strictly by tribal groups and contradictory aspects are a reality there. What is different from India is that there is more mixing between the groups. The upper caste are those people who claim more Arab ancestry."
You completely ignore to actual facts of what I am addressing. I don't know about India. And I don't speak about India. The initial claim was "Tuaregs" so and so this and that. People could not respond so the thread has been derailed. And that is what you do best, derail. LOL
So before you continue with more derail, tell "if you can" that is, since "you act" as a specialist. Which ethnic groups are we talking about. LOL Names is what I am asking for, specialist. You can post stories of deprivation all day. But that is not what I am asking for.
"Slavery’s Legacy Still Echoes In Tunisia’s All-Black Village?"
What is black lioness? LOL
quote:"Sanhaja, Masmoda, and Zenata are the three tribes constituting the Berbers ..."
"Rapid and catastrophic environmental changes in the Holocene and human response" first joint meeting of IGCP 490 and ICSU Environmental catastrophes in Mauritania, the desert and the coast January 4-18, 2004
Field conference departing from Atar Atar, Mauritania
Organizers Suzanne Leroy, Aziz Ballouche, Mohamed Salem Ould Sabar, and Sylvain Philip (Hommes et Montagnes travel agency)
View Abstracts Conference Homepage
What is the impact of Holocene climatic changes on human societies: analysis of Neolithic population dynamic and dietary customs. by Jousse, Helene
UMR Paléoenvironnements et Paléobiosphère, Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1, Villeurbanne, France.
quote: The reconstruction of human cultural patterns in relation to environmental variations is an essential topic in modern archaeology.
In western Africa, a first Holocene humid phase beginning c. 11,000 years BP is known from the analysis of lacustrine sediments (Riser, 1983 ; Gasse, 2002). The monsoon activity increased and reloaded hydrological networks (like the Saharan depressions) leading to the formation of large palaeolakes. The colonisation of the Sahara by vegetation, animals and humans was then possible essentially around the topographic features like Ahaggar (fig. 1). But since 8,000 years BP, the climate began to oscillate towards a new arid episode, and disturbed the ecosystems (Jolly et al., 1998; Jousse, 2003).
First, the early Neolithics exploited the wild faunas, by hunting and fishing, and occupied small sites without any trace of settlement in relatively high latitudes. Then, due to the climatic deterioration, they had to move southwards.
This context leads us to consider the notion of refugia. Figure 1 presents the main zones colonised by humans in western Africa. When the fossil valleys of Azaouad, Tilemsi and Azaouagh became dry, after ca. 5,000 yr BP, humans had to find refuges in the Sahelian belt, and gathered around topographic features (like the Adrar des Iforas, and the Mauritanians Dhar) and major rivers, especially the Niger Interior Delta, called the Mema.
Whereas the Middle Neolithic is relatively well-known, the situation obviously becomes more complex and less information is available concerning local developments in late Neolithic times.. Only some cultural affiliations existed between the populations of Araouane and Kobadi in the Mema. Elsewhere, and especially along the Atlantic coast and in the Dhar Tichitt and Nema, the question of the origin of Neolithic peopling remains unsolved.
A study of the palaeoenvironment of those refugia was performed by analysing antelopes ecological requirements (Jousse, submitted). It shows that even if the general climate was drying from 5,000 – 4,000 yr BP in the Sahara and Sahel, edaphic particularities of these refugia allowed the persistence of local gallery forest or tree savannas, where humans and animals could have lived (fig. 2). At the same time, cultural innovation like agriculture, cattle breeding, social organisation in villages are recognised. For the moment, the relation between the northern and the southern populations are not well known.
How did humans react against aridity? Their dietary behaviour are followed along the Holocene, in relation with the environment, demographic expansion, settling process and emergence of productive activities.
- The first point concerns the pastoralism. The progression of cattle pastoralism from eastern Africa (fig. 3) is recorded from 7,400 yr BP in the Ahaggar and only from 4,400 yr BP in western Africa. This trend of breeding activities and human migrations can be related to climatic evolution. Since forests are infested by Tse-Tse flies preventing cattle breeding, the reduction of forest in the low-Sahelian belt freed new areas to be colonised. Because of the weakness of the archaeozoological material available, it is difficult to know what was the first pattern of cattle exploitation.
- A second analysis was carried on the resources balance, between fishing-hunting-breeding activities. The diagrams on figures 4 and 5 present the number of species of wild mammals, fishes and domestic stock, from a literature compilation. Fishing is known around Saharan lakes and in the Niger. Of course, it persisted with the presence of water points and even in historical times, fishing became a specialised activity among population living in the Niger Interior Delta. Despite the general environmental deterioration, hunting does not decrease thanks to the upholding of the vegetation in these refugia (fig. 2). On the contrary, it is locally more diversified, because at this local scale, the game diversity is closely related to the vegetation cover. Hence, the arrival of pastoral activities was not prevalent over other activities in late Neolithic, when diversifying resources appeared as an answer to the crisis.
This situation got worse in the beginning of historic times, from 2,000 yr BP, when intense settling process and an abrupt aridity event (Lézine & Casanova, 1989) led to a more important perturbation of wild animals communities. They progressively disappeared from the human diet, and the cattle, camel and caprin breeding prevailed as today.
Gasse, F., 2002. Diatom-inferred salinity and carbonate oxygen isotopes in Holocene waterbodies of the western Sahara and Sahel (Africa). Quaternary Science Reviews: 717-767.
Jolly, D., Harrison S. P., Damnati B. and Bonnefille R. , 1998. Simulated climate and biomes of Africa during the late Quaternary : Comparison with pollen and lake status data. Quaternary Science Review 17: 629-657.
Jousse H., 2003. Impact des variations environnementales sur la structure des communautés mammaliennes et l'anthropisation des milieux: exemple des faunes holocènes du Sahara occidental. Thèse de l’Université Lyon 1, 405 p.
Jousse H, 2003. Using archaeological fauna to calibrate palaeovegetation: the Holocene Bovids of western Africa. Submit to Quaternary Science Reviews in november 2003, référence: QSR 03-333.
Lézine, A. M. and J. Casanova, 1989. Pollen and hydrological evidence for the interpretation of past climate in tropical West Africa during the Holocene. Quaternary Science Review 8: 45-55.
Riser, J., 1983. Les phases lacustres holocènes. Sahara ou Sahel ? Quaternaire récent du bassin de Taoudenni (Mali). Marseille: 65-86.
quote:VI Passing on from there we came to the large river Lixos [the Draa in Morocco], flowing from Libya, beside which nomads called Lixitae [Berbers] pastured their flocks. We stayed some time with them and became friends.
VII Inland from there dwelt inhospitable Ethiopians [negroes] in a land ridden with wild beasts and hemmed in by great mountains. They say that Lixos flows down from there and that among these mountains Troglodytes of strange appearance dwell, who according to the Lixitae can run more swiftly than horses.
So apparently Hanno recorded darker-skinned African people living in the interior of the Maghreb. Could these be indigenous Northwest Africans without Eurasian admixture, or would they be of Saharan or West African descent instead?
posted
TROGLODYTES (rporyAoUTas), a Greek word meaning "cave-dwellers." Caves have been widely used as human habitations both in prehistoric and in historic times (see CAVE), and ancient writers speak of Troglodytes in various parts of the world, as in 3Icesia near the lower Danube (Strabo, vii. 5, p. 318), in the Caucasus (Id., xi. 5, p. 506), but especially in various parts of Africa from Libya (Id., xvii. 3, p. 828) to the Red Sea. Herodotus (iv. 183) tells of a race of Troglodyte Ethiopians in inner Africa, very swift of foot, living on lizards and creeping things, and with a speech like the screech of an owl. The Garamantes hunted them for slaves. It has been supposed that these Troglodytes may be Tibbus, who still in part are cave-dwellers. Aristotle also (Hist. An., vii. 12) speaks of a dwarfish race of Troglodytes on the upper course of the Nile, who possessed horses and were in his opinion the Pygmies of fable. But the best known of these African cave-dwellers were the inhabitants of the "Troglodyte country" on the coast of the Red Sea, who reached as far north as the Greek port of Berenice, and of whose Strange and savage customs an interesting account has been preserved by Diodorus and Photius from Agatharchides.1 They were a pastoral people, living entirely on the flesh of their herds, or, in the season of fresh pasture, on mingled milk and blood. But they killed only old or sick cattle (as indeed they killed old men who could no longer follow the flock), and the butchers were called " unclean "; nay, they gave the name of parent to no man, but only to the cattle of which they had their subsistence. This last point seems to be a confused indication of totemism. They went almost naked ; the women wore necklaces of shells as amulets. Marriage was unknown, except among the chiefs, - a fact which agrees with the prevalence of female kinship in these regions in much later times. They practised circumcision or a mutilation of a more serious kind. The whole account, much of which must be here passed by, is one of the most curious pictures of savage life in ancient literature.
The Biblical Horim, who inhabited Mount Seir before the Edomites, bore a name which means cave-dwellers, and may probably have been a kindred people to the Troglodytes on the other side of the Red Sea. Jerome, on Obadiah 5, speaks of this region as containing many cave-dwellings, and such habitations are still sometimes used on the borders of the Syro-Arabian desert.
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quote: cave-dweller," 1550s, from Middle French troglodyte and directly from Latin troglodytae (plural), from Greek troglodytes "cave-dweller, cave-man" (in reference to tribes identified as living in various places by ancient writers; by Herodotus on the African coast of the Red Sea), literally "one who creeps into holes," from trogle "hole, mouse-hole" (from trogein "to gnaw, nibble, munch;" see trout) + dyein "go in, dive in." Related: Troglodytic.
quote: "In particular, the Tuareg have 50% to 80% of their paternal lineages E1b1b1b-M81 [34], [35]. The Tuareg are seminomadic pastoralist groups that are mostly spread between Libya, Algeria, Mali, and Niger. They speak a Berber language and are believed to be the descendents of the Garamantes people of Fezzan, Libya (500 BC - 700 CE) [34]."
--Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. (2014)
Genome-Wide and Paternal Diversity Reveal a Recent Origin of Human Populations in North Africa
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