posted
Anyone who thinks this is a place of learning is confused. Any forum where the majority has taken DNA tribes Amarna analysis literally for four+ years (2012-2016) has not learned anything and can't be trusted to speak the truth, EVER. Just like Henry Louis Gates, these people have forever forfeited their credibility to speak on certain matters. Everyone can blunder, but fervently defending demonstrably false and nitpicked information for ideological reasons is unforgivable. (And I invite people to hold me to the same standards; good luck finding examples of me engaging in that type of behaviour). These people supposedly champion Keita but ignore what he says every chance they get. Learning? Don't make me laugh. And what you call drama, some would call taking a much-needed broom through this place.
quote:The centroid values of the various upper Egyptian series viewed collectively are seen to vary over time. The general trend from Badari to Nakada times, and then from the Nakadan to the First Dynasty epochs dem- onstrate change toward the northern-Egyp- tian centroid value on Function I with simi- lar values on Function 11. This might represent an average change from an Afri- coid (Keita, 1990) to a northern-Egyptian- Maghreb modal pattern. It is clear however from the unknown analyses that the Aby- dene centroid value is explained primarily by the relatively greater number of crania with northern-Egyptian-Maghreb and Eu- ropean patterns in the series. Badari crania analyzed in this fashion revealed few or none which classified into the northern-Egyptian groups (Keita, 1990).
—Keita 1992
"Learning"? So show me who here hasn't systematically resisted and ignored this. And this was published in 1992. We're in 2017 and people have simply regressed and went backward, preferring some Great Lakes/E1b1a fairy tale and calling people with legitimate concerns "racist".
. The Episode of Genetic Drift Defining the Migration of Humans out of Africa Is Derived from a Large East African Population Size
Nuha Elhassan , Eyoab Iyasu Gebremeskel , Mohamed Ali Elnour, Dan Isabirye, John Okello, Ayman Hussien, Dominic Kwiatksowski, Jibril Hirbo, Sara Tishkoff, Muntaser E. Ibrahim Published: May 20, 2014
"Both MDS plots discriminated between Africans and non-Africans in their first coordinate, although in the IBS plot where the variance measure is more pronounced the drift effect and low Ne is prominent. In the FST based MDS the 2nd coordinate differentiates between Sudanese and the rest of Africa (except San), and between Asians and Europeans. Interestingly Beja population from Sudan maintains an intermediate position between Africans and non-Africans in both plots."
What happens when you include a lot more population samples is most those spaces are filled; Tishkoff et al. 2009 included over 100 samples from Africa-
See the smooth genetic gradient running from Western Eurasians to Saharans [North Africans]. This is game over for "Pan-Africanism". There's no discontinuous pan-African genetic cluster. I've also used the same PCA for years to debunk claims you often read on places like Stormfront that Europe is genetically seperated from West Asia/Levant.
Posts: 949 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Cass/: See the smooth genetic gradient running from Western Eurasians to Saharans [North Africans]. This is game over for "Pan-Africanism". There's no discontinuous pan-African genetic cluster. I've also used the same PCA for years to debunk claims you often read on places like Stormfront that Europe is genetically seperated from West Asia/Levant.
Weren't you saying that dynastic race wasn't Eurocentric and that southern Europeans can't be white. So are you saying local adaptions separate them even though you don't consider them genetically separated (whatever that means).
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Anyone who thinks this is a place of learning is confused. Any forum where the majority has taken DNA tribes Amarna analysis literally for four+ years (2012-2016) has not learned anything and can't be trusted to speak the truth, EVER. Just like Henry Louis Gates, these people have forever forfeited their credibility to speak on certain matters. Everyone can blunder, but fervently defending demonstrably false and nitpicked information for ideological reasons is unforgivable. (And I invite people to hold me to the same standards; good luck finding examples of me engaging in that type of behaviour). These people supposedly champion Keita but ignore what he says every chance they get. Learning? Don't make me laugh. And what you call drama, some would call taking a much-needed broom through this place.
quote:The centroid values of the various upper Egyptian series viewed collectively are seen to vary over time. The general trend from Badari to Nakada times, and then from the Nakadan to the First Dynasty epochs dem- onstrate change toward the northern-Egyp- tian centroid value on Function I with simi- lar values on Function 11. This might represent an average change from an Afri- coid (Keita, 1990) to a northern-Egyptian- Maghreb modal pattern. It is clear however from the unknown analyses that the Aby- dene centroid value is explained primarily by the relatively greater number of crania with northern-Egyptian-Maghreb and Eu- ropean patterns in the series. Badari crania analyzed in this fashion revealed few or none which classified into the northern-Egyptian groups (Keita, 1990).
—Keita 1992
"Learning"? So show me who here hasn't systematically resisted and ignored this. And this was published in 1992. We're in 2017 and people have simply regressed and went backward, preferring some Great Lakes/E1b1a fairy tale and calling people with legitimate concerns "racist".
This is actually a first of my reading this though I'm fairly new at this on a more regular pace. I don't really get the jargon like function 1 or 11. So were they saying that transitions were affecting upper Egypt (through mixture or adaptions) as Egypt began moving into the dynastic period?
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by capra: My hypothesis is that you really are a spambot and that your posts are meaningless, Ish Gebor. This is why you refuse to actually construct any kind of argument; it's beyond your programming.
This site is full of drama and characters. But I am figuring out if one can stick around long enough and learn to sift through the BS, one can actually learn a thing or two.
And besides, it can be so God-damned entertaining!
What is dramatical and entertaining for a character is when your location says Asia and your screen name says Mansa Musa. That is pure comedy.
Is there a possibility the REAL Mansa Musa spoke a branch of Afrasan?
Miss me with the Egyptsearch drama. What's wrong with a Black guy being in Asia?
Posts: 288 | From: Asia | Registered: Mar 2016
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quote:Originally posted by capra: My hypothesis is that you really are a spambot and that your posts are meaningless, Ish Gebor. This is why you refuse to actually construct any kind of argument; it's beyond your programming.
This site is full of drama and characters. But I am figuring out if one can stick around long enough and learn to sift through the BS, one can actually learn a thing or two.
And besides, it can be so God-damned entertaining!
What is dramatical and entertaining for a character is when your location says Asia and your screen name says Mansa Musa. That is pure comedy.
Is there a possibility the REAL Mansa Musa spoke a branch of Afrasan?
Miss me with the Egyptsearch drama. What's wrong with a Black guy being in Asia?
Noting is wrong with that, I know quite a few black guys in Asia.
Now, is there a possibility the REAL Mansa Musa spoke a branch of Afrasan?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: I know quite a few black guys in Asia.
pause
? SMH More dumb stuff by the ultimate euronut.
Tell, "Africana expert".
Is there a possibility the REAL Mansa Musa spoke a branch of Afrasan?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Does anyone have a comparison of Egyptian transliterations with Afro-asiatic languages?
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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posted
I'm sure you can find those with Egyptian and the Semitic/Berber languages but I have yet to find one comparing Egyptian and the Omotic/Cushitic/Chadic branches.
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Meet on the Level, act upon the Plumb, part on the Square. Posts: 574 | From: Guinee | Registered: Jul 2014
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quote:"The word Copt is derived from the Greek word Aigyptos, which was, in turn, derived from "Hikaptah", one of the names for Memphis, the first capital of Ancient Egypt.
The modern use of the term "Coptic" describes Egyptian Christians, as well as the last stage of the ancient Egyptian language script. Also, it describes the distinctive art and architecture that developed as an early expression of the new faith."
quote:"The Coptic language developed around 300 C.E. in Egypt. It is Egyptian language written using the Greek alphabet, as well as a couple of Demotic signs. This script was much easier to learn than the earlier writing systems used in ancient Egypt: hieroglyphic, hieratic and demotic scripts.
[...]
Egypt’s Coptic period—also called Egypt’s Christian period—lasted 500 years, from the fourth century to the ninth century C.E., when the majority of Egypt’s population was Christian. The major shift in religion—from the old Egyptian religion to Christianity—occurred in Egypt between 200 and 400 C.E.
This change was undoubtedly accelerated when Constantine declared Christianity a legal religion in 313 C.E."
Alexander’s conquest of Egypt in 332 BCE heralded two lengthy periods of foreign rule over the ancient civilization of the Nile. Following Alexander’s death, a Greco-Macedonian dynasty—the Ptolemies—obtained control of Egypt during the Hellenistic period. In 31 BCE, Octavian’s victory over the last Ptolemaic ruler, Cleopatra VII, led to Egypt’s incorporation into the Roman Empire and the beginning of another major new era of Egyptian (and Mediterranean) history. During these two periods of foreign rule, Egypt became a crossroads for the entire Mediterranean, inhabited not only by indigenous Egyptians but also Greeks, Jews, and many others. The wide-ranging trade networks, cultural exchanges, population movements, and religious interactions of these periods provide ancient parallels for modern phenomena such as globalization, imperialism, and tourism. Furthermore, thanks to the dry Egyptian climate, the extraordinary preservation both of material and textual (especially papyrological) evidence from these periods makes Egypt an exceptionally well-documented region of the Hellenistic and Roman Mediterranean. This wealth of data means that any comprehensive study of Hellenistic and Roman Egypt must combine the fruits of numerous disciplines, including (just to name a few) archaeology, philology, history, and art history. Scholars must additionally engage with at least two major languages (Egyptian and Greek—in addition to other languages preserved in fewer documents from Egypt, such as Latin and Hebrew); up to seven scripts (Greek, hieroglyphic, hieratic, Demotic, Latin, occasionally Hebrew, and, for the later Roman period, also Coptic); and multiple phases of the Egyptian language, because texts written in “classical” Middle Egyptian were still produced at periods when the spoken language had become dramatically different. Partly because of the increasing embrace of multidisciplinary approaches, research on Hellenistic and Roman Egypt has undergone immense changes in the later 20th and 21st centuries. These periods are sometimes categorized together as the “Greco-Roman period,” although some scholars challenge this practice (e.g., Lewis 1995, cited under General Overviews), arguing that the term “Greco-Roman period” conceals major social, political, and economic differences between Ptolemaic and Roman administrations. However, both periods do share certain distinctive cultural features—for example, the existence of a substantial element of the population that considered itself “Hellenic” (although definitions of “Hellene” were themselves subject to much change over time: see Ethnicity and Ethnic Identity). This article accordingly retains the term “Greco-Roman” as an umbrella term both for Hellenistic and Roman Egypt, while acknowledging the existence of profound differences between these periods. The chronological focus of this article starts with the death of Alexander in 323 BCE and ends with the transition to the “Late Antique” or “late Roman” period, here defined as dating from Diocletian’s accession in 284 CE. As a result, most of the rich literature on Late Antique Egypt and the rise of Coptic Christianity is omitted here (although some specific works cited do draw on material both earlier and later than the article’s primary focus). For references on Late Antiquity and early Christianity, readers should consult several other Oxford Bibliographies articles (e.g., Eric Rebillard’s articles Roman History: Late Antiquity and Early Christianity).
Bowman 1996 provides a historical and cultural overview of the Hellenistic and Roman periods (and beyond) in Egypt, while Bagnall and Rathbone 2004 describes the major archaeological sites. For the Hellenistic period in particular, Chauveau 2000 is an accessible introductory text, Hölbl 2001 and Huss 2001 are excellent histories, and Manning 2010 (cited under Ptolemaic Administration) discusses government and economy. Lewis 1999 offers a social history of Roman Egypt, and Ritner 1998 provides a brief survey of major political developments. Mitteis and Wilcken 1912 discusses—and provides primary papyrological sources on—many aspects of state and society in Hellenistic, Roman, and Byzantine Egypt; the authors’ four-volume study, foundational to papyrology as a discipline, helped shape the concerns and orientation of much subsequent papyrological research. Lewis 1995 (originally published in 1970) may at first seem an odd choice for inclusion in this section, since the article does not attempt to provide an “overview” of Hellenistic or Roman Egypt, focusing instead on administrative changes associated with the start of Roman rule. However, this study still serves as a useful starting point for problematizing any discussion of “the Greco-Roman period” in Egypt; citing numerous changes in society and government from the Ptolemies to the Romans, Naphtali Lewis launched an influential argument against the conflation of these periods through the use of the term “Greco-Roman.”
Ancient Egyptian Gebt/Qbt “Egypt” in Amarigna is gebTS “Egypt.”
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: Does anyone have a comparison of Egyptian transliterations with Afro-asiatic languages?
quote: A new study shows that Amara and Tigre merchants founded the ancient civilization of Gebts 5100 years ago and as a result developed the world’s first written language of business and trade.
Gebts represented a prime location to sell their goods and products, which Amara and Tigre merchants appear to have done in the area since 6000 years ago. But the key to establishing the ancient civilization that we all know about was when the Amara and Tigre merchants moved their farms and production into Gebts. Once they did, they needed to develop a way to document workers, wages, productions and sales.
Evidence is found in the word for “writing” in ancient Gebts, “matet”, which of course means, “give a report,” in Amarigna (“mehtat” in Tigrigna).
Using drawn-out objects to represent vowels and consonants, the Amara and Tigre developed a written language that could be used with both Amarigna and Tigrigna. Each vowel or consonant was taken from an object that contained it. Thus a drawing of a leg (“bat”) represented the consonant “b” and a closed lock (“zege”) was drawn for the consonant “z.”
Moving Amara and Tigre farming production into Gebts meant the local Gebts population could be employed as the farming and production labor. This allowed the merchants to generate an economy that never existed before.
But also, moving into the new region stimulated the economy with export sales, since new international markets could more easily and quickly be reached from the north-facing ports of Gebts at the Mediterranean Sea. This was an important opportunity for both Amara and Tigre merchants, as prior to this, Amara had to rely on the Nile River and Tigre had previously done trade primarily through the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and Persian Gulf to the south.
As a part of the administration of Gebts by the Amara and Tigre, Amarigna and Tigrigna represented a unique 2-language national written language system.
Surprisingly, the study reveals that Amarigna and Tigrigna were not recently split from each other, as it is commonly believed, and were already distinct languages 5100 years ago. The study also shows that Amara and Tigre culture has remained very much unchanged from 5100 years ago; we use the same words, eat the same food, and share the same beliefs 5100 years ago as we do now.
To view a list of 250 words from the ancient Gebts writings, visit ancientgebts.org
quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: Does anyone have a comparison of Egyptian transliterations with Afro-asiatic languages?
quote: A new study shows that Amara and Tigre merchants founded the ancient civilization of Gebts 5100 years ago and as a result developed the world’s first written language of business and trade.
Gebts represented a prime location to sell their goods and products, which Amara and Tigre merchants appear to have done in the area since 6000 years ago. But the key to establishing the ancient civilization that we all know about was when the Amara and Tigre merchants moved their farms and production into Gebts. Once they did, they needed to develop a way to document workers, wages, productions and sales.
Evidence is found in the word for “writing” in ancient Gebts, “matet”, which of course means, “give a report,” in Amarigna (“mehtat” in Tigrigna).
Using drawn-out objects to represent vowels and consonants, the Amara and Tigre developed a written language that could be used with both Amarigna and Tigrigna. Each vowel or consonant was taken from an object that contained it. Thus a drawing of a leg (“bat”) represented the consonant “b” and a closed lock (“zege”) was drawn for the consonant “z.”
Moving Amara and Tigre farming production into Gebts meant the local Gebts population could be employed as the farming and production labor. This allowed the merchants to generate an economy that never existed before.
But also, moving into the new region stimulated the economy with export sales, since new international markets could more easily and quickly be reached from the north-facing ports of Gebts at the Mediterranean Sea. This was an important opportunity for both Amara and Tigre merchants, as prior to this, Amara had to rely on the Nile River and Tigre had previously done trade primarily through the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea and Persian Gulf to the south.
As a part of the administration of Gebts by the Amara and Tigre, Amarigna and Tigrigna represented a unique 2-language national written language system.
Surprisingly, the study reveals that Amarigna and Tigrigna were not recently split from each other, as it is commonly believed, and were already distinct languages 5100 years ago. The study also shows that Amara and Tigre culture has remained very much unchanged from 5100 years ago; we use the same words, eat the same food, and share the same beliefs 5100 years ago as we do now.
To view a list of 250 words from the ancient Gebts writings, visit ancientgebts.org
quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: Legesse Allyn hasnt really checked out well to scrutiny. I wonder how he would feel about a debate. He has more work than I expected.
Punos_Rey's link did provide some examples. [/QB]
Isg Gebor the lesson here is that with one simple link Punos Rey showed some examples. Compared to you, as usual off target, only spamming related data that is not related enough to answer a simple request
Posts: 42942 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: Legesse Allyn hasnt really checked out well to scrutiny. I wonder how he would feel about a debate. He has more work than I expected.
Punos_Rey's link did provide some examples.
You should contact him for that. I am sure he is willing to debate online (Google Video). I am sure he can elaborate on the Omotic relation in Punos_Rey's link. For sure there is a linguistic substratum within the region.
quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: Legesse Allyn hasnt really checked out well to scrutiny. I wonder how he would feel about a debate. He has more work than I expected.
Punos_Rey's link did provide some examples.
Isg Gebor the lesson here is that with one simple link Punos Rey showed some examples. Compared to you, as usual off target, only spamming related data that is not related enough to answer a simple request [/QB]
Had you known what this is all about, you would have known that the sources I have provided elaborate on the link by Punos_Rey. But as usually you have no CLUE.
Tell, Mr. "PHd" the "Africana expert".
Is there a possibility the REAL Mansa Musa spoke a branch of Afrasan?
When are you going to answer this simple question?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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*Xyuambuatla: multiple meanings depending on language, but possibly "serpentine" (referring to Nile Valley)
A very ancient compound root derived from 'infant nursing' but has derived exponentially in all languages eg. Jambo, jambalaya, gupot, etc. Se.rp.ent/(xy).rip.arian/riv.er/sc.rib.e
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Khmt/Gebt.s/Qbt/Copt.ic/Aigypt.o
*Xyuambuatla: multiple meanings depending on language, but possibly "serpentine" (referring to Nile Valley)
A very ancient compound root derived from 'infant nursing' but has derived exponentially in all languages eg. Jambo, jambalaya, gupot, etc. Se.rp.ent/(xy).rip.arian/riv.er/sc.rib.e
So how do you break it up into syllables?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Every which way. To dramatize (always good at ES) take a multiple-syllable sound and explode it into any possible sound permutation while not changing the consonant order (although some languages change the order too eg. Arabic which is hard if I don't know the triliteral "synonyms" like kitab/tabik or whatever.
X can become c, ch, sh, x, tsch, k, and many others. U can appear as u, w, y, r, l, v, b etc. It depends on the geographic-temporal distance from the Congo, and is affected by arid climates. It is fuxing complex like a 4D oral jigsaw puzzle.
Xyuamuabuatlaxya (dry) = Nzjambuangdualua (wet)
Basically I'm a hunter in a forest tracking echoes of long ago conversations, most of which were initiated via the mouths of babies.
posted
42tribes, I don't find those so helpful, grammar is less important than vocabulary in my work, and language names are too ephemeral, like giving a name to a waterdrop in a river. Useful for some functions, not for others.
Greenberg & Ruhlen are better than many linguists stuck on PIE.
No opinion on Diop/Obenga, Mboli, too recent for me.
Recall that AmerIndian roots are very similar to 4 main language African roots, almost identical.
posted
^^Interesting And btw sorry for that picture beast spam but that is literally the only Afro-Asiatic family tree that did it any justice. (At least as far as I know it).
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: ^^Interesting And btw sorry for that picture beast spam but that is literally the only Afro-Asiatic family tree that did it any justice. (At least as far as I know it).
posted
the lioness, I was glad to read the chart as is; but thanks.
Note that Dahalo (1st chart, far right) is called Cushitic, but has numerous click-consonants indicating link to Khoi-San, they were known as elephant hunters. In Malagasy, Madagascar, dahalo means zebu rustler.
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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