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Originally posted by Marija:
y'all seem unfamiliar with that 22k bp find in Tunisia and trust me if I find the damned citation I will post it.

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Reposted by Ish Gebor August 07, 2017:
Btw,

code:

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 Geography	                   Founder Analysis
          

           Migration Time (ka)	           % of L3 Lineages (SE)

East Africa	      58.8	                     74.0 (0.5)
                 
                       1.8	                     20.1 (2.6)
                       0.1	                      5.9 (2.5)


Central Africa	      42.4	                     75.0 (2.7)
                       9.2	                     24.1 (2.8)
                       0.1	                      0.9 (0.2)

North Africa          35.0	                      7.4 (2.7)
                       6.6	                     67.0 (4.0)
                       0.6	                     25.7 (3.1)

South Africa 	       3.2	                     86.7 (4.3)
                       0.1	                     13.3 (4.3)

South Africa (southern)1.8	                     83.4 (3.7)
                       0.1	                     16.6 (3.7)
  

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--Pedro Soares
The Expansion of mtDNA Haplogroup L3 within and out of Africa

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Our results also point to a less ancient western sub-Saharan gene flow to Tunisia, including haplogroups L2a and L3b. This conclusion points to an ancient African gene flow to Tunisia before 20,000 BP. These findings parallel the more recent findings of both archaeology and linguistics on the prehistory of Africa. The present work suggests that sub-Saharan contributions to North Africa have experienced several complex population processes after the occupation of the region by anatomically modern humans. Our results reveal that Berber speakers have a foundational biogeographic root in Africa and that deep African lineages have continued to evolve in supra-Saharan Africa.

[...]


Indeed, taking into account the Tunisian sequences belonging to haplogroup L2a from Sejnane, Zriba, Kesra, Matmata, Sned, and Chenini-Douiret, we obtain a divergence age of about 28,000 ± 8,900 years, which is the same age calculated for this haplogroup including all the described sequences. However, we noticed two pairs of related haplotypes in the Kesra population, where we detected a local evolution of the L2a cluster, suggesting that this haplogroup could have been introduced earlier in Kesra.

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--Frigi et al.
Ancient Local Evolution of African mtDNA Haplogroups in Tunisian Berber Populations

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Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:



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It reminds me of some moroccan berbers

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No Lioness, I don't think modern fair-skinned Berber women is indicative of what the Egyptians were portraying unless you can find the menfolk of those women sporting dark brown skins as well.

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Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan.

Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by real expert:
It depends I would say. The ancient Egyptians used color for their complexion in a symbolic way but not completely. Men were almost always depicted reddish- brown while females lighter- yellowish and often like the Asiatics.


The difference colorization of men and females was about reflecting the distinct gender roles. Saying that in reality there were probably privileged Egyptian males that stayed indoors, avoided the sun thus were lighter than the female peasants that worked outdoors. So in that sense, you can say that the depicted different skin tones between males and females somehow were symbolic but without being totally unrealistic. There is, of course, the use of color that was strictly symbolic for example in cases where ancient Egyptians painted themselves as green, chalk-white or jet/coal black. Besides the reddish-brown skin tone of ancient Egyptians in their art can be observed on any Middle Eastern people who are overexposed to the sun, in real life. Furthermore the Minoans, Etruscans depicted males darker and deeply tanned and females pale. Dark skin on males was considered attractive while fair skin was the beauty standard for women. Hence paleness was the symbol of femininity and deeply tanned skin a sign of masculinity that was underlined in paintings too. So there is also an aesthetic reason to depict genders in different skin tones in ancient art. However, in real life paleness or darkness wasn‘t based on the gender of course. The black colorization in the attic vase, black-figure pottery, for instance, was definitely not reflecting real skin color at all but was totally symbolic. The attic vase created strong contrasts between the white background and the black figures for an aesthetic and artistic reason. Only females were usually depicted in chalk white color in the black figure to reflect the gender roles and for highlighting the contrast between men and women.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged |