posted
if upper egyptians are black then half of the world is black ....again these dumb american labels.
Jari I don't see what contradicts what I said : the upper egyptians I posted are not blacks nor do they look like any ssa populations. Moreover the tunisian haratin girl has this phenotype because of her ssa component coming from the trans-saharan slave trade I posted the comparison between me and a tunisian haratin. Thanks.
and Again : there were some nubians in egypt but the egyptians were not black.
quote:hopefully no one outside this site take you seriously and historians/egyptologists already know the truth so I don't care about the opinion of a bunch of complexed low IQ afro-americans.
DID THIS GUY JUST SUGGEST THAT BLACK AMERICANS HAVE A LOW IQ!
WOULD SOMEONE BAN THIS JACK@SS ALREADY!Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
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quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: if upper egyptians are black then half of the world is black ....again these dumb american labels.
We have Greek/classical, Arab, and Early European descriptions of Upper Egyptians, even today its undenialable, Didn't Frank J. Yurco not make it clear to you dummies?
quote:Jari I don't see what contradicts what I said : the upper egyptians I posted are not blacks nor do they look like any ssa populations.
Do I need to post the Tunisian girl again?
quote:Here your true negros :
[/qb]
Cute, but those people and other Neheshi had more influence in Egypt than you Coastal North Africans ever did...
Even the 26th Dynasty portrayed themselves in the 25th Dynasty style of coloring.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
- ancient coastal north africans were absolutely not black -Ancient egyptians were not black - We have testimonials of aethiopian groups in North Africa but they didn't play any relevant role in our societies/civilizations except the XXVth dynasty in egypt and some nubian nobles.
- By "black" here I'm not talking about the ridiculous one drop rule but every indigenous population of sub-saharan africa (which includes haratin in NA) and people who have more than 65% of his/her ancestry being from this region. I do not consider some malagasy people to be black because they have a bigger south-east asian component.
Some afro-american phenotypes are also too altered compared to what we found in West or central africa because of the european component most of them have.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
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Cute, but those people and other Neheshi had more influence in Egypt than you Coastal North Africans ever did...
Even the 26th Dynasty portrayed themselves in the 25th Dynasty style of coloring. [/QB]
Even if that was true I don't really care because I'm not claiming egypt like you all I simply know that ancient egyptians were not black and have absolutely nothing to do with bantu people like you.
look at your ridiculous community XD :
You're really proud of your west african ancestors hahaha. Africa is a continent not your country people like us are totally indigenous to North Africa and it's our ancestors that were the founders of every civilizations that appeared in NA that you like it or not.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
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posted
You're 100% right brotha Al, look at how he gets when pushed into a corner(I even went easy on him lol)...Baal quoted him before he edited...
Its how they get, been licking the boots of Cathage, Romans, and Visogothic Spaniards for so long they want to be whiter than the whites...
To bad Europeans cant stand them...The only time Europeans even care about them is to claim them as less advanced off-shoots of Aryans/Indo-Europeans
I was gonna post about the IQ of his Coastal Nomadic ancestors, who needed outside help to create any sort of high culture....but I respect Amazigh, like the ones who host a dark skinned Tunisian as authentic Amazigh...
No need to roll in the mud with a pig..
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: @ Jari
Yeah, get up stand up don't give up the fight!
Even though if on any forum we acted like Nassbean they'd a canned us long ago.
Disrespecting ppl in their own house SMH
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith:
quote:hopefully no one outside this site take you seriously and historians/egyptologists already know the truth so I don't care about the opinion of a bunch of complexed low IQ afro-americans.
DID THIS GUY JUST SUGGEST THAT BLACK AMERICANS HAVE A LOW IQ!
WOULD SOMEONE BAN THIS JACK@SS ALREADY!
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Nassbean is a moron. No one here has suggested that the AE looked like Nilotes -- the darkest people in Africa. People are talking of King Narmer, Huni, Sahure, Ahmose, Queen Tiye, Amenhotep III and many more.
posted
People with LOW IQ believe in "True Negroes". Yet you claim "African Americans" are the ones with "Low IQ".
All data points to so called "Sub Saharan Africans" to have the highest genetic diversity, WIDE PHENOTYPE diversity, skin color, hair texture, nose width, skull shape, height etc...
So NO there isn't now, NOR EVER have there been any "TRUE NEGROS".
Only people with VERY LOW intelligence continue to beat their heads up against walls to parrot concepts DEVOID OF REALITY.
If there are "True Negroes" there are "True Blancos".
"Blancos"/Whites have less genetic diversity than so-called "Sub Saharan Africans", as well as lower phenotype diversity. So the criteria for classifying one as "White" should be more stringent.
Disqualifying anyone that even slightly deviates from the "True Blancos" in Europe.
So your "White North Africans" aren't "TRUE WHITES"
Posts: 115 | From: usa | Registered: Feb 2020
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This is a map of all the kingdoms of ancient Sudan -- kingdoms that were contemporaries of ancient Egypt. The word "Nubian" is applied to all of them and this is where the confusion arises.
There was no kingdom or entity called "Nubia" in ancient times. There were no people (s) called "Nubians". These "Nubians" spoke different languages (belonging to different linguistic groups) and had markedly different physical appearances.
Some of Egypt's Southern neighbours [those to the immediate South] very closely resembled the ancient Egyptians. Those further South did not.
"Nubia" is a corruption of the ancient Egyptian word Nubt -- a word for gold. There was a city in Upper Egypt called Nubti, which would have been the original Nubia.
These are the people of Punt (modern day Northeast Sudan or Somalia) and they resemble the ancient Egyptians:
Ancient Egyptian soldiers and sailors
The pitch-black people we see on ancient Egyptian walls must have been the ancestors of the Nuba of Kordofan and/or the Nilotic tribes that used to live in the Gezira -- tribes like the Dinka and Nuer - the blackest people in Africa.
Upper Egypt has had shared affinities with specific people 'Nubia' for tens of thousands of years, and this is why specialists understand that 'Nubians' were ethnically the closest people to the ancient Egyptians since the predynastic period.
Eurocentrics [ignorant, dishonest cretins] insist on creating an artificial dichotomy between the people of the South and the ancient Egyptians by presenting the pitch-black ancestors of the "Nuba" and the Dinka as the quintessential "Nubians" while ignoring people that so very closely resembled the ancient Egyptians.
The Dinka and Nuer have significantly darker skin than all the Africans so its not necessary for the ancient Egyptians to be as black as the Dinka to be called black just as the Greeks, Italians and Portugese don't need to be as white as the Norwegians and Swedes to be called White.
Here's a picture of a black man from Swaziland standing next to a Hematite mine and his skin tone matches the red ochre that we see used to represent the ancient Egyptians. Contrast him to a Dinka, and what he's not black anymore?
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: [QB] You're 100% right brotha Al, look at how he gets when pushed into a corner(I even went easy on him lol)...Baal quoted him before he edited...
Its how they get, been licking the boots of Cathage, Romans, and Visogothic Spaniards for so long they want to be whiter than the whites...
To bad Europeans cant stand them...
I was gonna post about the IQ of his Coastal Nomadic ancestors, who needed outside help to create any sort of high culture....but I respect Amazigh, like the ones who host a dark skinned Tunisian as authentic Amazigh...
No need to roll in the mud with a pig..
Visigoths never controlled north africa but ok ...
anyway adding this would be good too :
"Among the part-time and full-time nomads the interracial relationship is more complicated. The Ait Atta for example, who pasture their sheep ion the middle Atlas in summer and in the Dades Valley to the south in winter, have their castles and gardens in Dades valley. There they delegate the agricultural work to caste of Negroid serfs, the Haratin . Other Haratin are found in oases all along the northern fringe of the Sahara, and indeed throughout the desert.The camel nomads, particular the famed Tuareg, or People of Vel, are divided into castes of nobles, imghad, or camel-breeding dependents who also have their Haratin, and slaves.The merchant communities of the great oases, like the Mzabites of Ghardaia, foster endogamy as they belong to a schismatic sect of Islam, that of the Khawarij, or Kharijites. They to have their gardens tilled by Haratin . " From "THE LIVING RACES OF MAN" by Carleton S. Coon, 1965
"The measurements were principally of adaptively trivial traits that display patterns of regional similarities based solely on genetic relationships. The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia, Oceania, or the New World . We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations " Brace, C. L., D. P. Tracer, L. A. Yaroch, J. Robb, K. Brandt, and A. R. Nelson. 1993. Clines and Clusters Versus "Race": A Test in Ancient Egypt and the Case of a Death on the Nile. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology 36:1-31.
" A proportion of 1/4 to 1/2 of North African female pool is made of typical sub-Saharan lineages, in higher frequencies as geographic proximity to sub-Saharan Africa increases.The Sahara was a strong geographical barrier against gene flow, at least since 5,000 years ago, when desertification affected a larger region, but the Arab trans-Saharan slave trade could have facilitate enormously this migration of lineages. " " The interpolation analyses and complete sequencing of present mtDNA sub-Saharan lineages observed in North Africa support the genetic impact of recent trans-Saharan migrations, namely the slave trade initiated by the Arab conquest of North Africa in the seventh century. Sub-Saharan people did not leave traces in the North African maternal gene pool for the time of its settlement, some 40,000 years ago. "
"The attempt to force the Egyptians into either a “black” or a “white” category has no biological justification. Our data show not only that Egypt clearly had biological ties to the north and to the south, but that it was intermediate between populations to the east and the west, and that Egypt was basically Egyptian from the Neolithic right on up to historic times. In this, our analysis simply reinforces the findings of other recent studies " https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ajpa.1330360603
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694?fbclid=IwAR3UbRWTkPOX8eRRU5B2JJDjlgaTIS1KBAmneMRGFDRLs0Wn4whlK9qQbu4 ---> "By comparing ancient individuals from Abusir el-Meleq with modern Egyptian reference populations, we found an influx of sub-Saharan African ancestry after the Roman Period, which corroborates the findings by Henn and colleagues16. Further investigation would be needed to link this influx to particular historic processes. Possible causal factors include increased mobility down the Nile and increased long-distance commerce between sub-Saharan Africa and Egypt49. Trans-Saharan slave trade may have been particularly important as it moved between 6 and 7 million sub-Saharan slaves to Northern Africa over a span of some 1,250 years, reaching its high point in the nineteenth century "
" Considering the deep unity of the Berber over a considerable area, we could even very legitimately hypothesize that the initial cradle of the Chamito-Semitic languages, contrary to all classical theses, could well be North Africa, the only mole of stability and continuity in the Chamito-Semitic ensemble, from which the branches and languages of the family would have diversified, by migration to the southeast (Cushitic and Chadian domain), to the East (Egyptian domain In any case, the hypothesis is no less legitimate than all the other previously issued and even seems to be supported by linguistic material, notably grammatical, because the Berber system often appears both as prototypical and particularly transparent in the whole Chamito-Semitic " "https://journals.openedition.org/encyclopedieberbere/314
"Herodotus lists two new peoples - the Greeks and the Phoenicians - and two indigenous peoples - the Libyans to the north and the Aethiopes * to the south - living in" Libya "(IV 197, 2). their geographic connotations: in Herodotus as in the following centuries, the term "Libyans" serves above all as a collective name for the indigenous population of North Africa, distinguished by its lighter skin and other characters compared to the Ethiopians negroids (for a detailed catalog of "Libyan" tribes in this sense, attested through antiquity, cf. Desanges 1962). " https://journals.openedition.org/encyclopedieberbere/338
" Among ancient populations, early Neolithic Moroccans share affinities with Levantine Natufian hunter-gatherers (~9,000 BCE) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic farmers (~6,500 BCE). Late Neolithic (~3,000 BCE) Moroccan remains, in comparison, share an Iberian component of a prominent European-wide demic expansion, supporting theories of trans-Gibraltar gene flow. Finally, the Andalusian Early Neolithic samples share the same genetic composition as the Cardial Mediterranean Neolithic culture that reached Iberia ~5,500 BCE. The cultural and genetic similarities of the Iberian Neolithic cultures with that of North African Neolithic sites further reinforce the model of an Iberian intrusion into the Maghreb "https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/21/191569
"The results of this study show that there is a native genetic component that defines North Africans. In-depth study of these markers shows that the people inhabiting North Africa today are not descendants of the earliest occupants of this region fifty thousand years ago, but shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were a group of populations that already lived in the region around thirteen thousand years ago. Furthermore, this local North African genetic component is very different from the one found in the populations in the south of the Sahara, which shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were members of a subgroup of humanity who left Africa to conquer the rest of the world and who subsequently returned to the north of the continent to settle in the region" (https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002397)
Ase thinking the Sahara was all green :
"The Sahara was wetter and greener during multiple interglacial periods of the Quaternary, when some have suggested it featured very large (mega) lakes, ranging in surface area from 30,000 to 350,000 km2. In this paper, we review the physical and biological evidence for these large lakes, especially during the African Humid Period (AHP) 11–5 ka. Megalake systems from around the world provide a checklist of diagnostic features, such as multiple well-defined shoreline benches, wave-rounded beach gravels where coarse material is present, landscape smoothing by lacustrine sediment, large-scale deltaic deposits, and in places, tufas encrusting shorelines. Our survey reveals no clear evidence of these features in the Sahara, except in the Chad basin. Hydrologic modeling of the proposed megalakes requires mean annual rainfall =1.2 m/yr and a northward displacement of tropical rainfall belts by =1000 km. Such a profound displacement is not supported by other paleo-climate proxies and comprehensive climate models, challenging the existence of megalakes in the Sahara. Rather than megalakes, isolated wetlands and small lakes are more consistent with the Sahelo-Sudanian paleoenvironment that prevailed in the Sahara during the AHP. A pale-green and discontinuously wet Sahara is the likelier context for human migrations out of Africa during the late Quaternary ." (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/quaternary-research/article/megalakes-in-the-sahara-a-review/7515BC9AAFE40606D3FC30C9D0C7D9D7?fbclid=IwAR36_bsGGbeKA5sJyJsxNv8rcPS8QQU2m2op FfLWPSqfu9wPzASp95VUrvE)
A handful of mHGs characterized ancient Egyptian mtDNA. 44% belonged to the following mHGs: R0a 7.8%, HV1 6.7%, J2a2 6.7%, T1a 14.4%, M1a 5.6%, I 4.4%. Every single one of those mHGs is specific to the Near East-North Africa except for U6a and M1a which make a significant presence Iberia and many parts of Africa. Today R0a, HV1, and J2a2 interesting all peak in Egypt. And the ancient Egyptians had as high of a frequency in those mHGs as you’ll find in any modern population. Their high frequency of J2a2(6.7%) is even more interesting considering it has been found in the Natufians. J2a2 seldom appears outside of the SouthWest Asia-North Africa. Last year I classified it Near Easter(See here). J in Europe is dominated by J1c while J1b-J1d dominates J in much of the Middle East. Saying the ancient Egyptians had a lot of T1a doesn’t say much considering T1a is equally popular in most of West Eurasia(from Ireland to Iran). The T1a clades the ancient Egyptians belonged to: T1a7, T1a2, T1a5, T1a8, all are Near Eastern-specific. None of them belonged to European-SC Asian T1a1. Most of my modern T1a7 samples are from Egypt. All of my Egyptian T1a7 samples belong to an unclassified T1a7 clade, it’ll be interesting to see if these ancient Egyptians belonged to that clade.
"Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA (Fig. 1C and fig. S3) and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans (8), can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans(15) and Early Neolithic Europeans (tables S9 and S10). His genome-wide ancestry and uniparental markers (tables S1 and S4) are unique among Copper Age Iberians, including individuals from sites with many analyzed individuals such as Sima del Ángel, and point to a North African origin. Our genetic evidence of sporadic contacts with North Africa during the Copper Age fits with the presence of African ivory at Iberian sites (16) and is further supported by a Bronze Age individual (I7162) from Loma del Puerco in southern Iberia who had 25% ancestry related to individuals like I4246 (Fig. 1D and table S16)."
The Saharan rock representations make it possible to distinguish 3 morphotypically identifiable populations which lived separated from each other (from 8000 to 1000 BC) : 1) a leucoderm population (linked to the naturalistic bubaline art) which occupied all of northern sahara - -> Border with blacks with the 25-27th parallels which separates the neolithic capsian from the neolithic saharo-sudanais. 2) a non-negroid melanoderm group like the Peuls or the Nilotics. 3) a Negro group confined to the southernmost areas and Tassili but also in certain areas such as the Tibesti, the Ennedi and Ouenat (Bernard lugan, p29-30)
the presence of mitochondrial DNA patterns geographically specific to the populations of North West Africa and their age of coalescence in this region, around 30,000 years (Maca-Meyer, et al. 2003) supports an ancient continuity of man in this region. This is also confirmed by the presence of specific haplotypes of the Y chromosome (Lucotte et al. 2000; Bosch et al. 2001). Likewise, Flores et al. (2001) demonstrated a large number of paternal lines of North African origin (over 75%), supporting long-term population continuity in this region. "(http://www.didac.ehu.es/antropo/20/20-5/Chadli.pdf)
" Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt-related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source11; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans23. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources ." https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: A big thanks to you because you just debunked ASE's argument about ancient upper egyptians looking like ethiopians simply based on craniometry...so we both agree that craniometry means nothing when it comes to phenotypes and dna.
LOL You obviously have poor reading comprehension. I never contradicted Ase's claims! He's right that Egyptians cranometrically resemble Ethiopians this is a fact that has been touted by anthropologists since the 19th century up until today.
Loring Brace's 1994 craniometric clustering
^ Note the position of Somali people
Brace's 2004 craniometric study
^ Again Somali people cluster closer to early Egyptians than Berbers.
My point was simply that craniometric data only gives one an indication of craniofacial resemblance. Craniofacial resemblance does NOT necessarily correlate to close genetic relation as again an Andamanese people aboriginal to Southeast Asia are metrically close to stereotypical i.e. "negroid" Africans but obviously they are no closer genetically than Japanese or Indigenous Americans! And even according to Brace's findings Somali are closer to Egyptians than the Nubians right next to them.
quote:As for upper egyptians being mostly arab you have of course no evidence for this while I posted evidence of the impact of the trans-saharan slave trade you were of course not able to contradict them.
When did I say they were "mostly Arab", I simply said they were not the exact same as their ancient ancestors due to foreign influence not only from Arabs but other peoples including Sub-Saharans! Again, learn how to read what is actually, written.
quote:Originally posted by Ase: He's saying THAT the specific graph you posted (that is mainly focused on nasal values) is worthless. Not that ALL craniometry is invalid.
It's not just nasal values but also other values of the face. As I said, craniometry is valid in only assessing general features of the face and skull of a population and who they generally resemble. Usually populations tend to resemble neighboring populations close by whom they tend to be related to genetically, but historical processes of migration tend to change such features over time. Plus by circumstance one population in one part of the world may closely resemble another population from another part of the world without having any close genetic relation hence Melanesians and Andamanese looking like Sub-Saharan West Africans.
The features of the skull that are the best to use for close genetic relations are non-metric features that is those features of the skull that cannot be measured like certain like bump patterns on the skull.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: "The measurements were principally of adaptively trivial traits that display patterns of regional similarities based solely on genetic relationships. The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia, Oceania, or the New World. We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations " Brace, C. L., D. P. Tracer, L. A. Yaroch, J. Robb, K. Brandt, and A. R. Nelson. 1993. Clines and Clusters Versus "Race": A Test in Ancient Egypt and the Case of a Death on the Nile. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology 36:1-31.
Didn't we discuss already that Brace's findings were based mostly on nasal metrics?
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: " A proportion of 1/4 to 1/2 of North African female pool is made of typical sub-Saharan lineages, in higher frequencies as geographic proximity to sub-Saharan Africa increases. The Sahara was a strong geographical barrier against gene flow, at least since 5,000 years ago, when desertification affected a larger region, but the Arab trans-Saharan slave trade could have facilitate enormously this migration of lineages. " " The interpolation analyses and complete sequencing of present mtDNA sub-Saharan lineages observed in North Africa support the genetic impact of recent trans-Saharan migrations, namely the slave trade initiated by the Arab conquest of North Africa in the seventh century. Sub-Saharan people did not leave traces in the North African maternal gene pool for the time of its settlement, some 40,000 years ago. "
Depends on where in North Africa you're talking about:
"Furthermore, SSA groups indicated to have contributed to modern Egypt do not match the Muslim trade routes that have been well documented as SSA groups from the great lakes and southern African regions were largely absent in the internal trading routes that went north to Egypt."
Ancient Egyptian Genomes from northern Egypt: Further discussion -- SOY Keita
quote:"The attempt to force the Egyptians into either a “black” or a “white” category has no biological justification. Our data show not only that Egypt clearly had biological ties to the north and to the south, but that it was intermediate between populations to the east and the west, and that Egypt was basically Egyptian from the Neolithic right on up to historic times. In this, our analysis simply reinforces the findings of other recent studies " https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ajpa.1330360603
The entirety of Egypt would've been accurately described as intermediate. However when discussing the origins of of the dominant culture: How OLDER Upper Egyptians when looked at specifically? They would've been black.
quote:https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694?fbclid=IwAR3UbRWTkPOX8eRRU5B2JJDjlgaTIS1KBAmneMRGFDRLs0Wn4whlK9qQbu4 ---> "By comparing ancient individuals from Abusir el-Meleq with modern Egyptian reference populations, we found an influx of sub-Saharan African ancestry after the Roman Period, which corroborates the findings by Henn and colleagues16. Further investigation would be needed to link this influx to particular historic processes. Possible causal factors include increased mobility down the Nile and increased long-distance commerce between sub-Saharan Africa and Egypt49.
The same study says:
quote: It is possible that populations in the south of Egypt were more closely related to those of Nubia and had a higher sub-Saharan genetic component, in which case the argument for an influx of sub-Saharan ancestries after the Roman Period might only be partially valid and have to be nuanced.
As in: Mixture from an indigenous population to the south of the sample site could explain why we see Sub Saharan genetic components. I'll be clear to note that these findings don't matter to my argument specifically. But you're trying to make the study say more than it can. And...oh yes it also said:
quote:Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant
Asiatics populated Egypt and eventually took control of Egypt all the way south to Cusae. The Egyptian site selected is not only near Faiyum, the mummies predate what it just admitted was large scale immigration from Canaan.
quote:Trans-Saharan slave trade may have been particularly important as it moved between 6 and 7 million sub-Saharan slaves to Northern Africa over a span of some 1,250 years, reaching its high point in the nineteenth century "[/b]
Again:
quote: Furthermore, SSA groups indicated to have contributed to modern Egypt do not match the Muslim trade routes that have been well documented as SSA groups from the great lakes and southern African regions were largely absent in the internal trading routes that went north to Egypt.
Areas like the Great Lakes were not really subject to the slave trade.
quote:Ase thinking the Sahara was all green :
"The Sahara was wetter and greener during multiple interglacial periods of the Quaternary, when some have suggested it featured very large (mega) lakes, ranging in surface area from 30,000 to 350,000 km2. In this paper, we review the physical and biological evidence for these large lakes, especially during the African Humid Period (AHP) 11–5 ka. Megalake systems from around the world provide a checklist of diagnostic features, such as multiple well-defined shoreline benches, wave-rounded beach gravels where coarse material is present, landscape smoothing by lacustrine sediment, large-scale deltaic deposits, and in places, tufas encrusting shorelines. Our survey reveals no clear evidence of these features in the Sahara, except in the Chad basin. Hydrologic modeling of the proposed megalakes requires mean annual rainfall =1.2 m/yr and a northward displacement of tropical rainfall belts by =1000 km. Such a profound displacement is not supported by other paleo-climate proxies and comprehensive climate models, challenging the existence of megalakes in the Sahara. Rather than megalakes, isolated wetlands and small lakes are more consistent with the Sahelo-Sudanian paleoenvironment that prevailed in the Sahara during the AHP. A pale-green and discontinuously wet Sahara is the likelier context for human migrations out of Africa during the late Quaternary ."
It says:
quote:Rather than megalakes, isolated wetlands and small lakes are more consistent with the Sahelo-Sudanian paleoenvironment that prevailed in the Sahara during the AHP. A pale-green and discontinuously wet Sahara is the likelier context for human migrations out of Africa during the late Quaternary."
Sounds like they're saying it's a Sahel. Do blacks in Africa live in and travel through the Sahel all the time? Yes, they do. Wasn't arguing the Sahara had big megalakes and was a tropical rainforest. But it's modern aridity happened at about 2,000 BC. This stood to kill humans that couldn't adapt to the desert environments, pumping more non-black foreigners into Egypt from Canaan and possibly other parts of north Africa.
Snipped and skimmed through passages that discuss non blacks in north Africa and genotypes not shared with SSA in ancient north Africa because I already argued that was a thing and so I really don't care.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: Things have to be clear :
- ancient coastal north africans were absolutely not black
They didn't make the dominant culture of Egypt so no one cares.
quote:-Ancient egyptians were not black
Southern Egyptians that founded the dominant culture were, even if they weren't all black.
quote:- We have testimonials of aethiopian groups in North Africa but they didn't play any relevant role in our societies/civilizations except the XXVth dynasty in egypt and some nubian nobles.
Nope! they closely matched the phenotypes of the original upper Egyptians. Upper Egyptians clustered between Nubians and Ethiopians.
quote:- By "black" here I'm not talking about the ridiculous one drop rule but every indigenous population of sub-saharan africa (which includes haratin in NA) and people who have more than 65% of his/her ancestry being from this region.
Yawn genetics don't ultimately determine who winds up black. You can have people with less SSA ancestry than that but would pass as black. And since you want to play that game let's show:
You'd probably be surprised how common this is. The woman above only has 34 percent European ancestry. 66 percent of her ancestry is from SSA. You can find North Africans that look like this too:
And this woman was probably darker than the skintone given in the reconstruction too.
Also: Aboriginals have NO SSA ancestry and still live as blacks in Australia. So again it's about phenotype, not genotype.
quote: I do not consider some malagasy people to be black because they have a bigger south-east asian component.
No one cares what you want to believe. If you don't have a trillion dollar military and financial infrastructure it don't mean shit. NO ONE chooses their race. Aboriginals are even more distantly related to SSA than Malagasy and are black. So it doesn't matter if they have a larger Asian component, what is the phenotype? If black then they're black.
quote:Some afro-american phenotypes are also too altered compared to what we found in West or central africa because of the european component most of them have.
And yet we navigate the west as blacks, not just the Americas. Which I might add was the result of multiple waves of European immigration that's people all continuously decided we were blacks. The one drop rule doesn't really exist in U.S politics. It's more like any trace of features that are considered black gets you treated as black. And that attitude has been something many famous blacks in the political world have faced over and over and in more western places than just the U.S.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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At least they're not robbing indigenous people of their billions like non-blacks from MENA that have come to own our culture. Or doing this
with the ambition to make a multi million dollar financial empire built on being a culture vulture that preys on blacks
And she's just a small fry compared to the others. I could've posted even more ridiculous shit but I'm not going to get the banhammer over it. Come get your rich non-black vultures that come here trying to make money off our culture. They are out here making porn and popping their vaginas on camera for the opportunity to make money off my people. No shame!
quote:Africa is a continent not your country people like us are totally indigenous to North Africa and it's our ancestors that were the founders of every civilizations that appeared in NA that you like it or not.
Maybe, that's not really what anyone cares about though. Was there phenotype black is the only thing of interest and yes the dominant culture's phenotype was originally black.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: this guy is Khnum-Nakht :
this is a small statue of him :
and this is his coffin :
You see how dishonest she is?
How is she dishonest when she posts a reconstruction based on Khnum-Nakht's skull while YOU post merely a sarcophagus portrait. If anything it is YOU who is being dishonest.
The author of the above thread makes it clear that art is subjective and may not reflect the physical reality of the person. In fact F.Y.I. the manufacturing let alone customization of sarcophagi was a time consuming and expensive process. Most sarcophagus owners seemed to have been satisfied with a generic face as long as the funerary epitaphs and spells for a blessed afterlife were correctly painted, written, or etched. The thread author makes it clear with photographs that Khnum-Nakht's skull possessed clear features typically labeled as "negroid" despite the non-negroid looking portrait but he is far from being the only one.
quote:Of course she will accept this reconstruction of Khnum but strangely she will not accept those ones :
It's not unusual to see multiple constructions of the same mummy which isn't surprising considering that some folks such as yourself are discomforted by earlier perhaps more accurate reconstructions that display the Africoid features usually associated with Sub-Saharans. But even with the reconstructions above, their so-called "caucasoid" features would still not look out of place for some black peoples in Africa. This is why the biased artists of later reconstructions prefer using lighter if not actual white skin tones to perpetuate fantasy while obfuscating reality.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Tried this via PM a coupla hours ago. Butcha know what? I acted out publicly. As a man I must do this publicly too.
@ Djehuti I'm sorry. I owe you this apology. Surely u r a soldier in the fight for authentic Africana. Nassbean flared my temper to lash out blindly. Forgive me.
Sorry for what? Did I miss something? For the 15 years I've been on this forum you've known that I've done nothing but fought for the truth of Egypt and greater North Africa's 'Africanity' which on the face of it sounds ridiculous. Never do Europeans have to fight for the Europeaness of Mediterranean Europe despite the African influence of the Neolithic. I may not be of African descent or part of the diaspora and am just an Asian but like the white poster Brandon I care about the truth. Some folks like Nassbean are just too consumed by ideology to acknowledge the truth when it smacks them on the face.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: if upper egyptians are black then half of the world is black ....again these dumb american labels.
Half the world IS black, as 'black' is a description of very dark skin color which is not only confined to indigenous Africans but indigenous peoples of the tropics and subtropics including Arabia, India, and aboriginals to Southeast Asia, Australia and the Pacific! Again 'black' as a label for skin color is NOT confined to America as the black Indian woman you posted is called 'kali' (black) in her own country you nitwit!
quote:Jari I don't see what contradicts what I said : the upper egyptians I posted are not blacks nor do they look like any ssa populations. Moreover the tunisian haratin girl has this phenotype because of her ssa component coming from the trans-saharan slave trade I posted the comparison between me and a tunisian haratin. Thanks.
More lies and/or excuses. Newsflash: not all black Berbers are "Haratin" there are black Mozabites, black Kabyle, and of course all Berber speaking Egyptians are black as well!
quote:and Again : there were some nubians in egypt but the egyptians were not black.
According to whom?
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren Department of Biology I, Biodiversity Research/Anthropology1and Department of Veterinary Anatomy II2, Ludwig-Maximilians University Munich, Germany Submitted January 8, 2002; revised May 4, 2004; accepted August 12, 2004 Abstract During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly developed methods. Furthermore, three fixatives were tested with each of the rehydration fluids. Meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and a placenta were used for this study. The rehydration and fixation procedures were uniform for all methods.
Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550-1080 BC).
Skin Skin sections showed particularly good tissue preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had already separated from the dermis, the remaining epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin. In the dermis, the hair follicles, hair, and sebaceous and sweat glands were readily apparent (Fig. 2). Blood vessels, but no red blood cells, and small peripheral nerves were identified unambiguously (Fig. 3). The subcutaneous layer showed loose connective tissue fibers attached to the dermis, and fat cell remnants were observed.
So much for your non-black Egyptians. LOL
quote:Here your true negros :
There is no such thing as "true negroes" anymore than there are "true caucasians". You realize the term "true negro" is an outdated anthropological term used to deny the phenotypic diversity of black Africans which is exactly what you're doing.
But to play your silly game here are your true blanko caucasians!:
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The above pictures are from the Mastaba-Chapel of Hetepherakhet and they seem to show two different types of AE -> Upper Egyptians and Lower Egyptians.
Beyoku mentioned something along these lines in ABF not too long ago. What do posters think?
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Jari asked: Why are you bringing up slaves?
Remember the words of Eldridge Cleaver, not that I admire him in any way whatsoever.
quote:“having lived intimately for several years among the Arabs, I know them to be among the most racist people on earth.”
Cleaver’s article, written from his jail cell, was published in the Boston Herald-American. He said that many wealthy Arab families owned one or two Black slaves. “Sometimes they own an entire family. I have seen such slaves with my own eyes,” he wrote describing his experience in Algeria where he lived after fleeing the United States.
.
The reasons Nassabe keeps mentioning slaves is the word for slave and the word for an African black are exactly the same in many Arabic speaking countries and most Tamazight speaking peoples.
That's something non-continental blk ppl don't understand or if known to them gets compartmentalized since free people of African descent in Indo-European speaking lands have seperate terms for a blk person and for a slave.
Arab and Arabic speakers in Euro descent dominated nations are surprised and embarrassed when confronted with facts from their homeland are thrown in their face by a non-continental African by descent. Why? So many of them under 40 have adapted Hip Hop culture and throw around the word nigger even calling each other bitch ass nigger as a jibe and of course the kids and the lower class blx won't bust em in the lip like most blx used to do when anybody but a Spanish speaker uses the word.
Negrita means sweetheart just like blk grlz last millenium called their boyfriend that's my nigger. Negra is reserved for a "wife" and otherwise is an insult.
Gone are the days when young blx would smack the shiss outta anybody else flying the N bomb.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
These are Descendant of American Slavery or Foundational Black Americans your average African Americans who overwhelmingly belong to no religious minority groups. Noble Drew Ali type Moors and Black Hebrew Israelite types are atypical of cultural practices and clothing of American blx.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Please don't call yourself "just an Asian", you know what I'm saying.
There's mostly positive interaction of ADOS/FBA and Filipinos over a centry and not just hair for weaves.
Heads up, an Americas black rabbi is there in the Phillipines assisting those who have decided to practice Hokmat Yisra'el (traditional Judaism - Sefer Torah, sidduriym, synagogue, Yomiym Tobiym, etc)
I know blk is reserved for the short statured indigenees in the east of Asia, from China southward to Indonesia and the periphery.
Funny thing is an Askenazi man at a cong in a city I used to live in for no reason at all felt the need to tell me and my wife that his Filipina wife is black. Of course he didn't mean of African descent and honestly her complexion and underlying skin tone is in no wise one I've seen on anybody I'd call black. Man, they had three beautiful children!
BTW That rabbi of Black American descent is married to a Filipina and they too have one Bee-A-Utiful toddler!
buck the pm back to me if you'd the pics
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Sorry for what? Did I miss something? For the 15 years I've been on this forum you've known that I've done nothing but fought for the truth of Egypt and greater North Africa's 'Africanity' which on the face of it sounds ridiculous.
Never do Europeans have to fight for the Europeaness of Mediterranean Europe despite the African influence of the Neolithic.
I may not be of African descent or part of the diaspora and am just an Asian but like the white poster Brandon I care about the truth. Some folks like Nassbean are just too consumed by ideology to acknowledge the truth when it smacks them on the face.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Jari asked: Why are you bringing up slaves?
Remember the words of Eldridge Cleaver, not that I admire him in any way whatsoever.
The reasons Nassabe keeps mentioning slaves is the word for slave and the word for an African black are exactly the same in many Arabic speaking countries and most Tamazight speaking peoples.
That's something non-continental blk ppl dom't understand or if known to them gets compartmentalized since free people of African descent in Indo-European speaking lands have seperate terms for a blk person and for a slave.
Arab and Arabic speakers in Euro descent dominated nations are surprised and embarrassed when confronted from facts from their homeland are thrown in their face by a non-continental African by descent. Why? So many of them under 40 have adapted Hip Hop culture and throw around the word nigger even calling each other bitch ass nigger as a jibe and of course the kids and the lower class blx won't bust em in the lip like most blx used to do when anybody but a Spanish speaker uses the word.
Negrita means sweetheart just like blk grlz last millenium called their boyfriend that's my nigger. Negra is reserved for a "wife" and otherwise is an insult.
Gone are the days when young blx would smack the shiss outta anybody else flying the N bomb.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: These are Descendant of American Slavery or Foundational Black Americans your average African Americans who overwhelmingly belong to no religious minority groups. Noble Drew Ali type Moors and Black Hebrew Israelite types are atypical of cultural practices and clothing of American blx.
[img][/img]
Unfortunately I've seen plenty of them wearing ankh or hamsa necklace as if it was part of their culture I've rarely seen any afro-american being proud of his west african roots in general they prefer egypt or the moors.
Here a delusional mixed afro american with a very big euro component thinking her ancestors were egyptians :
Please click and read the CONTENTS, PREFACE, and two chapters - AMAZIGHT ROOTS OF EGYPTIAN CLTURE - HUNTERS OF THE NILE.
She said her rag should be in every African Studies dept library in universities to set the blx straight. But then what to expect from a Zigh who says its a fact Berbers originated western Beled es Sudan civilization!
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Cute, but those people and other Neheshi had more influence in Egypt than you Coastal North Africans ever did...
Even the 26th Dynasty portrayed themselves in the 25th Dynasty style of coloring.
posted
Also here how the ancestors of afro-americans portrayed themselves :
They looked exactly like modern west africans I see no ressemblance with ancient egyptians
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
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quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: More pictures of how black people were portrayed by egyptians :
No, just pictures of Nilotes; the Nilotes have a very distinct phenotype and are undoubtedly the blackest people in Africa.
Even in Sudan, they are much darker than some of the tribes in the South. The ancient Egyptians I showed were a different kind of black people, and you're pretending that they don't exist in order to maintain your fragile ego.
Posts: 2 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Jun 2015
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Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
quote:Originally posted by Chol: No, just pictures of Nilotes; the Nilotes have a very distinct phenotype and are undoubtedly the blackest people in Africa.
Even in Sudan, they are much darker than some of the tribes in the South. The ancient Egyptians I showed were a different kind of black people, and you're pretending that they don't exist in order to maintain your fragile ego. [/QB]
No we clearly see a difference in the morphological representation with nubians having typical negroid traits while egyptians being represented with caucasoid traits and a reddish skin tone exactly like modern egyptians. You have no evidence that only nilotes were represented.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
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quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: In comparison here egyptians :
They looked exactly like their modern descendents
So a random Berber lunatic (with an inferiority complex) gets to decide that Narmer and Queen Tiye are not Egyptian? ROFL!
You've already been told that showing Lower Egyptians is not going to help you; Upper Egypt matters far more and they did not look like coastal Berbers.
Posts: 2 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
An official in Oyotunji a village in Sheldon NC where decades ago some ADOS/FBA re-established tight links to the Gulf of Guinea cultures many but no all of them hail from.
quote:Originally posted by Chol: So a random Berber lunatic (with an inferiority complex) gets to decide that Narmer and Queen Tiye are not Egyptian? ROFL!
You've already been told that showing Lower Egyptians is not going to help you; Upper Egypt matters far more and they did not look like coastal Berbers. [/QB]
Lol look at your queen Tiye here :
her statue that all afrocentrists are always posting is made of unpainted wood that is oxidised due to its age.
Now about Narmer ...specialists are not even sure this bust portrays him :
this bust is damaged and I see no skin color nor negroid traits. It's not a coincidence if afrocentrists always post the same 5 or 6 pics of very damaged statues.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
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quote:Originally posted by Chol: No, just pictures of Nilotes; the Nilotes have a very distinct phenotype and are undoubtedly the blackest people in Africa.
Even in Sudan, they are much darker than some of the tribes in the South. The ancient Egyptians I showed were a different kind of black people, and you're pretending that they don't exist in order to maintain your fragile ego.
No we clearly see a difference in the morphological representation with nubians having typical negroid traits while egyptians being represented with caucasoid traits and a reddish skin tone exactly like modern egyptians. You have no evidence that only nilotes were represented. [/QB]
"Negroid" like Narmer and Queen Tiye? You're a joke. You've already been told (a million times) that "Nubians" were not homogenous and that some "Nubians" (Lower "Nubians" and Puntites) were almost identical to the ancient Upper Egyptians.
Lower "Nubians" as portrayed by ancient Egyptians:
posted
I've already said that nubians from the land of wawat had the same skin tone as upper egyptians ...Moreover queen tiye or narmer were not negroid nor black.
Also people should stop posting pictures of little unpainted statues made of oxidised wood.
Here how kushites portrayed themselves (completely different from ancient egyptians) :
They also complained about me posting busts from the New Kingdom because according to them they all represent mixed asiatic individuals but strangely posting queen tiye from the XVIIIth dynasty is not a problem. You see the hypocrisy here ?
anyway here queen tiye with beautiful straight hair :
It's nit wise to go into a picture spam battle, especially when you only have a very small sample set from what is available.
When you show is not what the majority of images show. In fact is makes up less than 10%.
I know you don't comprehend very well.
Predominantly all over Egypt you will find these images (guess what, that's the 90% remainder:
The reason for the is, because of:
quote:Abstract
Post-Pleistocene climatic improvement in the Northern Hemisphere after ca. 9550 BC allowed human populations to recolonize large parts of North Africa in what is today the Sahara Desert. In the Egyptian Western Desert, the beginnings of human occupation date as early as ca. 9300 BC. Occupation continued until the middle of the third millennium BC when final desertification of the area no longer afforded human occupation. The settlement of the Neolithic cattle and sheep/goat herders developed along with the rhythm of alternating wet and dry climatic oscillations. One of the areas occupied intensively during the early and middle Holocene was Gebel Ramlah. Pastoral populations established their settlements around the shores of a paleo-lake adjacent to a rocky massif, to exploit the local savannah environment. During most of the Neolithic, they buried their dead dispersed outside of their settlements. Only during the Final Neolithic (after ca. 4600 BC) did they place them exclusively in cemeteries. Of six Final Neolithic cemeteries investigated at Gebel Ramlah to date, one is entirely unprecedented, not only in North Africa but also globally at such an early date. For just under 200 years (ca. 4500–4300 BC), it served exclusively for the inhumation of infants who died around (perinate) or shortly after the time of birth (neonate). Thirty-two
burial pits contained skeletal remains of 39 individuals, not only infants but also at least two adult females accompanied by perinates/neonates. Older children (> 3 years) were interred at a nearby cemetery that primarily comprised adults.
[…]
The area around Gebel Ramlah was settled since the beginning of the Early Neolithic, and the density of settlement reached its maximum during the El Jerar phase (climatic optimum of the Holocene). Traces from the Middle, Late, and Final Neolithic are less intensive and random. In fact, for the Final Neolithic, we have more information on mortuary behavior than for the settlement pattern and subsistence. Between 4500 and 4300 BC, south-western fringes of the Gebel Ramlah lake served as an extended burial ground for different populations. Different ancestry and relationships of these populations can be followed on the basis of archaeological and, partially, bioarchaeological arguments. Some groups (using cemeteries E-01-2, E-03-1, E-03-2, and E-09-4) show some affiliation with sub-Saharan Africans, readable in the pottery assemblage and other grave goods, as well as some morphological features (Irish 2010; Kobusiewicz and Kabaciński 2010; Czekaj-Zastawny and Kabaciński 2015). These people were certainly mobile, perhaps spending only a few months per year at Gebel Ramlah. The E-09-02 cemeteries for neonates and adults belonged to another, more sedentary group with limited mobility; however, we cannot trace their origins based on the available record. An almost complete lack of grave goods does not allow comparative analyses. On the other hand, peculiar characters of the skeletal remains at these cemeteries—numerous neonatal/perinatal individuals and poorly preserved subadults/adults—do not allow reliable studies based on craniometric or dental data. But, qualitatively, there are no obvious differences among all populations from Gebel Ramlah at the beginning of the Final Neolithic. Thus, the two groups, culturally different, were likely not much different biologically, possibly deriving from the same region of Africa.
[…]
Ethnographic data offer support by showing how radically different children are treated in various African societies (Gottlieb 2004a, b; Pawlik 2004; Kabaciński et al. 2018).
For more see link:
~Agnieszka Czekaj-Zastawny & Tomasz Goslar & Joel D. Irish & Jacek KabacińskiGebel Ramlah—a Unique Newborns’ Cemetery of the Neolithic Sahara African Archaeological Review volume 35, pages393–405(2018) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-018-9307-1Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
Nassbean
Banned by a New World Black
Member # 23084
Southern Egyptians that founded the dominant culture were, even if they weren't all black. Nope! they closely matched the phenotypes of the original upper Egyptians. Upper Egyptians clustered between Nubians and Ethiopians.
Again no Upper egyptians were not black and based on your pics they craniometrically plot between horners and other north africans Its probably still the case today. Craniometry means nothing when it comes to skin color.
quote:Originally posted by Ase: Yawn genetics don't ultimately determine who winds up black. You can have people with less SSA ancestry than that but would pass as black. And since you want to play that game let's show:
You'd probably be surprised how common this is. The woman above only has 34 percent European ancestry. 66 percent of her ancestry is from SSA. You can find North Africans that look like this too:
And this woman was probably darker than the skintone given in the reconstruction too.
The woman doesn't even look black lol no one look like her in sub-saharan africa and no one has 34% european ancestry in SSA ...her phenotype is typically from the new world and only americans would consider her as "black" here in europe she would see as "métisse"/biracial. And no the skintone wasn't darker for the reconstruction you have again no evidence for this.
Posts: 218 | From: Europe | Registered: Jun 2019
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Oh yeah, he's the one 1st or 2nd on notice for whuppin serious Libyan butt, though it's true the Tjehenu are absolutely not related to but feared the Meshwesh (Mazigh ancestral east Maghrebis}. Neuserre and Sahure's exploitation of Tjehenu are the first written documents mentioning eastern Libyan people.
quote: One of the most important temples illustrating the description of the Tehenu people is the temple of the King Sahu-Ra (of the fifth dynasty). The Tehenu were portrayed as * tall people, * dark skinned (or bronze-skinned), * with long black hair, * short pointed beards, * slender faces and * thick lips; features which closely relates them to their relatives from East Africa, such as the Ethiopians, whose languages both were of the same group and both were of East African origin: the Hamito-Semitic family which is now known as Afro-Asiatic.
from temehu.com website by honest fact driven North Africans.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Nassbean is a moron.
People are talking of King Narmer, Huni, Sahure, Ahmose, Queen Tiye, Amenhotep III and many more. Sahure
- During Sahure's reign expeditions were sent to Byblos in Lebanon, reliefs in his mortuary and valley temple depict a counting of foreigners and the return of a fleet, with a huge cedar tree
- Another inscription depict four cargo ships bringing goods from a foreign expedition to Punt, namely dogs, monkeys and myrrh trees.
- Due to this naval activity, Sahure is credited with establishing the first Egyptian navy.
- He also led a campaign against the Libyans in the north-western desert, which yielded cattle, and showed Sahure smiting the local enemies
- He quarried for turquoise in Sinai at Wadi Maghara, along with the diorite quarries in Nubia
- Sahure also built a sun temple as most of the other 5th Dynasty Pharaohs, but it's location has not been discovered. The textual evidence shows that this temple was named Sekhet-Ra, meaning "The Fields of Ra"
- Sahure was responsible for the construction of the best preserved of the 5th Dynasty pyramid at Abusir
- He also sent the first documented expedition to the land of Punt, inscriptions depicts king Sahure cultivating two potted myrrh tree brought from Punt in his garden.
About 2500 B.C. during the reign of King Sahure, an expedition to Punt returned with 80,000 measures of 'ntyw, which scholars believe to be myrrh. Derived from a tree of the same name, myrrh is a resin used to make incense, which the Egyptians coveted for temple rituals; myrrh was the most prized commodity from Punt. Sahure's expedition also brought back 23,030 staves—wood being precious to a desert country like Egypt—and 6,000 measures of electrum, a natural alloy of gold and silver, among other items.
You're mentally ill and clearly unravelling; you've based your entire sense of worth on associating yourself with the Nile Valley.
The bust of Narmer is legitimate and is recognised as such, so you'll need to do better than claiming that "specialists" say otherwise.
What about Sahure and Ahmose? What's your facile explanation for that?
So, the AE were so inept that they made Queen Tiye look like a black woman and also made paintings showing themselves to be almost identical to mahogany-brown people further South in Lower Nubia and Punt?
It's nit wise to go into a picture spam battle, especially when you only have a very small sample set from what is available.
When you show is not what the majority of images show. In fact is makes up less than 10%.
I know you don't comprehend very well.
Predominantly all over Egypt you will find these images (guess what, that's the 90% remainder:
The reason for the is, because of:
quote:Abstract
Post-Pleistocene climatic improvement in the Northern Hemisphere after ca. 9550 BC allowed human populations to recolonize large parts of North Africa in what is today the Sahara Desert. In the Egyptian Western Desert, the beginnings of human occupation date as early as ca. 9300 BC. Occupation continued until the middle of the third millennium BC when final desertification of the area no longer afforded human occupation. The settlement of the Neolithic cattle and sheep/goat herders developed along with the rhythm of alternating wet and dry climatic oscillations. One of the areas occupied intensively during the early and middle Holocene was Gebel Ramlah. Pastoral populations established their settlements around the shores of a paleo-lake adjacent to a rocky massif, to exploit the local savannah environment. During most of the Neolithic, they buried their dead dispersed outside of their settlements. Only during the Final Neolithic (after ca. 4600 BC) did they place them exclusively in cemeteries. Of six Final Neolithic cemeteries investigated at Gebel Ramlah to date, one is entirely unprecedented, not only in North Africa but also globally at such an early date. For just under 200 years (ca. 4500–4300 BC), it served exclusively for the inhumation of infants who died around (perinate) or shortly after the time of birth (neonate). Thirty-two
burial pits contained skeletal remains of 39 individuals, not only infants but also at least two adult females accompanied by perinates/neonates. Older children (> 3 years) were interred at a nearby cemetery that primarily comprised adults.
[…]
The area around Gebel Ramlah was settled since the beginning of the Early Neolithic, and the density of settlement reached its maximum during the El Jerar phase (climatic optimum of the Holocene). Traces from the Middle, Late, and Final Neolithic are less intensive and random. In fact, for the Final Neolithic, we have more information on mortuary behavior than for the settlement pattern and subsistence. Between 4500 and 4300 BC, south-western fringes of the Gebel Ramlah lake served as an extended burial ground for different populations. Different ancestry and relationships of these populations can be followed on the basis of archaeological and, partially, bioarchaeological arguments. Some groups (using cemeteries E-01-2, E-03-1, E-03-2, and E-09-4) show some affiliation with sub-Saharan Africans, readable in the pottery assemblage and other grave goods, as well as some morphological features (Irish 2010; Kobusiewicz and Kabaciński 2010; Czekaj-Zastawny and Kabaciński 2015). These people were certainly mobile, perhaps spending only a few months per year at Gebel Ramlah. The E-09-02 cemeteries for neonates and adults belonged to another, more sedentary group with limited mobility; however, we cannot trace their origins based on the available record. An almost complete lack of grave goods does not allow comparative analyses. On the other hand, peculiar characters of the skeletal remains at these cemeteries—numerous neonatal/perinatal individuals and poorly preserved subadults/adults—do not allow reliable studies based on craniometric or dental data. But, qualitatively, there are no obvious differences among all populations from Gebel Ramlah at the beginning of the Final Neolithic. Thus, the two groups, culturally different, were likely not much different biologically, possibly deriving from the same region of Africa.
[…]
Ethnographic data offer support by showing how radically different children are treated in various African societies (Gottlieb 2004a, b; Pawlik 2004; Kabaciński et al. 2018).
For more see link:
~Agnieszka Czekaj-Zastawny & Tomasz Goslar & Joel D. Irish & Jacek KabacińskiGebel Ramlah—a Unique Newborns’ Cemetery of the Neolithic Sahara African Archaeological Review volume 35, pages393–405(2018) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-018-9307-1
I don't see any black features and their skin is similar to modern upper egyptians but if you want more pics no problem :
Here ramses II giving a good lesson to afrocentrists :
Southern Egyptians that founded the dominant culture were, even if they weren't all black. Nope! they closely matched the phenotypes of the original upper Egyptians. Upper Egyptians clustered between Nubians and Ethiopians. BLAH BLAH BLAH … "it's true because I SAY SO"!
You are terrible at math. This is what 90% of aalllllll the ancient Egyptians art looks like!
I can tell that you have NEVER, NEVUUUR been to Egypt. lol
quote:"Many of the sites reveal evidence of important interactions between Nilotic and Saharan groups during the formative phases of the Egyptian Predynastic Period (e.g. Wadi el-Hôl, Rayayna, Nuq’ Menih, Kurkur Oasis). Other sites preserve important information regarding the use of the desert routes during the Protodynastic and Pharaonic Periods, particularly during periods of political and military turmoil in the Nile Valley (e.g. Gebel Tjauti, Wadi el-Hôl)."
quote: “There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.
In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas
[...]
Any interpretation of the biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians must be placed in the context of hypothesis informed by the archaeological, linguistic, geographic or other data.
In this context the physical anthropological evidence indicates that the early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation.
This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection influenced by culture and geography"
~Kathryn A. Bard (STEPHEN E. THOMPSON) Egyptians, physical anthropology of Physical anthropology
quote:"The Mahalanobis D2 analysis uncovered close affinities between Nubians and Egyptians. [B]Table 3 lists the Mahalanobis D2 distance matrix. As there is no significance testing that is available to be applied to this form of Mahalanobis distances, the biodistance scores must be interpreted in relation to one another, rather than on a general scale. In some cases, the statistics reveal that the Egyptian samples were more similar to Nubian samples than to other Egyptian samples (e.g. Gizeh and Hesa/Biga) and vice versa (e.g. Badari and Kerma, Naqada and Christian).
These relationships are further depicted in the PCO plot (Fig. 2). Aside from these interpopulation relationships, some Nubian groups are still more similar to other Nubians and some Egyptians are more similar to other Egyptian samples. [B]Moreover, although the Nubian and Egyptian samples formed one well-distributed group, the Egyptian samples clustered in the upper left region, while the Nubians concentrated in the lower right of the plot. One line can be drawn that would separate the closely dispersed Egyptians and Nubians. The predynastic Egyptian samples clustered together (Badari and Naqada), while Gizeh most closely groups with the Lisht sample. The first two principal coordinates from PCO account for 60% of the variation in the samples. The graph from PCO is basically a pictorial representation of the distance matrix and interpretations from the plot mirror the Mahalanobis D2 matrix.”
~Godde K. An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404. Epub 2009 Sep 19.
quote:“Abstract
The process of the peopling of the Nile Valley likely shaped the population structure and early biological similarity of Egyptians and Nubians. As others have noted, affinity among Nilotic populations was due to an aggregation of events, including environmental, linguistic, and sociopolitical changes over a great deal of time. This study seeks to evaluate the relationships of Nubian and Egyptian groups in the context of the original peopling event. Cranial nonmetric traits from 18 Nubian and Egyptian samples, spanning Lower Egypt to Lower Nubia and approximately 7400 years were analyzed using Mahalanobis D2 as a measure of biological distance. A principal coordinates analysis and spatial-temporal model were applied to these data. The results reveal temporal and spatial patterning consistent with documented events in Egyptian and Nubian population history. Moreover, the Mesolithic Nubian sample clustered with later Nubian and Egyptian samples, indicating that events prior to the Mesolithic were important in shaping the later genetic patterning of the Nubian population. Later contact through the establishment of the Egyptian fort at Buhen, Kerma’s position as a strategic trade center along the Nile, and Egyptian colonization at Tombos maintained genetic similarity among the populations”
~Godde K July 2018 A new analysis interpreting Nilotic relationships and peopling of the Nile Valley
quote: "The question of the genetic origins of ancient Egyptians, particularly those during the Dynastic period, is relevant to the current study. Modern interpretations of Egyptian state formation propose an indigenous origin of the Dynastic civilization (Hassan, 1988). Early Egyptologists considered Upper and Lower Egyptians to be genetically distinct populations, and viewed the Dynastic period as characterized by a conquest of Upper Egypt by the Lower Egyptians. More recent interpretations contend that Egyptians from the south actually expanded into the northern regions during the Dynastic state unification (Hassan, 1988; Savage, 2001), and that the Predynastic populations of Upper and Lower Egypt are morphologically distinct from one another, but not sufficiently distinct to consider either non-indigenous (Zakrzewski, 2007). The Predynastic populations studied here, from Naqada and Badari, are both Upper Egyptian samples, while the Dynastic Egyptian sample (Tarkhan) is from Lower Egypt. The Dynastic Nubian sample is from Upper Nubia (Kerma). Previous analyses of cranial variation found the Badari and Early Predynastic Egyptians to be more similar to other African groups than to Mediterranean or European populations (Keita, 1990; Zakrzewski, 2002). In addition, the Badarians have been described as near the centroid of cranial and dental variation among Predynastic and Dynastic populations studied (Irish, 2006; Zakrzewski, 2007). This suggests that, at least through the Early Dynastic period, the inhabitants of the Nile valley were a continuous population of local origin, and no major migration or replacement events occurred during this time.
Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). A craniometric study found the Naqada and Kerma populations to be morphologically similar (Keita, 1990). Given these and other prior studies suggesting continuity (Berry et al., 1967; Berry and Berry, 1972), and the lack of archaeological evidence of major migration or population replacement during the Neolithic transition in the Nile valley, we may cautiously interpret the dental health changes over time as primarily due to ecological, subsistence, and demographic changes experienced throughout the Nile valley region.”
~AP Starling, JT Stock. (2007), Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 134:520–528 Introduction to Research at Naqada Region
Now, go cry yourself asleep.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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You people didnt create anything during the heyday of Andalusia, that was done by Muwalladun Convert Europeans(Native Spanish and Saqalibba), Jews and Eastern Syrian/Persian influenced Arabs.
The first time Berbers gained a foothold was by the dark skinned Almoravids...
So stop stealing Spanish Moorish culture you Barbarian(Berber)
As far as Morocco goes...African Americans have a right to identify with Morocco, considering this is who were representing Morocco to Europeans and the world
Source: The Illustrated London News, 15 June 1901, p 853 The Moorish Embassy {1901} For the first time since the reign of Charles II., a Moorish Embassy has waited upon the British Sovereign. The mission, which has been sent by the Sultan of Morocco to congratulate King Edward on his accession, arrived at Portsmouth on June 6.
17th painting depicting the ruler of the Hafsid dynasty King Mulay Ahmad of Tunisia 🇹🇳
17th century caricature of Moulay al-Rashid of Morocco 🇲🇦
Mulay Slimane or Suleiman (1766 – 28 November 1822) was the Sultan of Morocco from 1792 to 1822. Slimane was one of five sons of Mohammed III who fought a civil war for control of the kingdom. Slimane emerged victorious in 1795, and the country remained largely passive for the subsequent decades of his rule. He was a member of the Alaouite dynasty.
quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: [QB] You're 100% right brotha Al, look at how he gets when pushed into a corner(I even went easy on him lol)...Baal quoted him before he edited...
Its how they get, been licking the boots of Cathage, Romans, and Visogothic Spaniards for so long they want to be whiter than the whites...
To bad Europeans cant stand them...
I was gonna post about the IQ of his Coastal Nomadic ancestors, who needed outside help to create any sort of high culture....but I respect Amazigh, like the ones who host a dark skinned Tunisian as authentic Amazigh...
No need to roll in the mud with a pig..
Visigoths never controlled north africa but ok ...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by N assbean: Here ramses II giving a good lesson to afrocentrists :
What you are showing is still under 10%. And Ramses himself was African. So that babble made no sense.
Go learn basic history first, before you make a fool out of yourself once more!
quote:"The ancient Egyptians were not 'white' in any European sense, nor were they 'Caucasian'... we can say that the earliest population of ancient Egypt included African people from the upper Nile, African people from the regions of the Sahara and modern Libya, and smaller numbers of people who had come from south-western Asia and perhaps the Arabian penisula."
~Robert Morkot (2005). The Egyptians: An Introduction. pp. 12-13
quote:Ancient finds in the Western Desert of Egypt at Gebel Ramlah circa 5,000 BC show culture closely linked with indigenous tropical Africans of both the Saharan and sub-Saharan regions, not Europe or the Middle East. Dental studies put the inhabitants of Gebel Ramlah, closest to indigenous tropical African populations.
~Michal Kobusiewicz, Jacek Kabacinski, Romuald Schild, Joel D. Irish and Fred Wendorf
Burial practices of the Final Neolithic pastoralists at Gebel Ramlah, Western Desert of Egypt
British Museum Studies in Ancient Egypt and Sudan 13 (2009): 147–74
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Nassbean: I've already said that nubians from the land of wawat had the same skin tone as upper egyptians ...Moreover queen tiye or narmer were not negroid nor black.
Also people should stop posting pictures of little unpainted statues made of oxidised wood.
Here how kushites portrayed themselves (completely different from ancient egyptians) :
They also complained about me posting busts from the New Kingdom because according to them they all represent mixed asiatic individuals but strangely posting queen tiye from the XVIIIth dynasty is not a problem. You see the hypocrisy here ?
anyway here queen tiye with beautiful straight hair :
in comparison here a nubian mummy :
So you concede that the "Nubians" of Wawat and Punt looked most like the founders of the Egyptian civilization?
It's nice that you've conceded that the people that created virtually all the material elements of Egyptian civilization and were the demographic majority from the predynastic until the New Kingdom period, looked like like people in Sudanese kingdoms.
You seem to think that black means Bantu, so you lash out when people point out that Upper Egyptians were related to other Northeast Africans.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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I never contradicted Ase's claims! He's right that Egyptians cranometrically resemble Ethiopians this is a fact that has been touted by anthropologists since the 19th century up until today.
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