posted
Eurocentrists and their followers over the past few years have tried to use population genetics to deny that Egypt and other civilizations were founded by Blacks.
They can no longer do this because of the Sage (Tukuler). Tukuler forced XYYman and myself to put up or shut up. He forced us to really look deeply into the population genetics research literature. Our literature reviews illustrated that often the Abstract of population genetics papers may not tell you the gems of knowledge found in many papers that support the African character of just about every haplogroup.
I taught research for years at Governors State University. This had indicated to me that population genetics papers are mainly descriptive studies describing the haplogroups researchers found in the genomic samples they examined; and that unless the DNA is ancient, Bayesian statistics is nothing but guesses that rarely, if ever, can be supported by archaeology.
Finally, population genetics can no longer support the idea the Egyptians were not Africans.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I am humbled to hear this from the man who inspired me to delve deeper into African presence in the Aegean world decades ago via Afrique Histoire US.
quote:... Academia, especially in the field of genetics behind the scenes is in crisis. In the past they could publish propaganda without any opposition. but when [Djoser-Xyyman] and I began too see through their nonsense they are trying their best to maintain the status quo.Before I retired I taught research. As a result, the scientist at my University often had me on their writing committees to make their proposed research based on the scientific method.
Genetics research is not based on the scientific method. They may have a research question, but they never state hypothesis. what this means is that
Publishing your work is very difficult, today. In the past you sent a journal an article and if the findings were valid and reliable the work was published. Now you can get a work based solely on who you know. That's why you see the same authors cited on research articles relating to ancient Europeans, namely the Harvard clique.
This is not true today, in the Western research journals you have to pay between $2500-$4000 to publish an article. As you might imagine if you aren't supported by a grant your work won't be published.
Dr Winters and Edward L Jones served up different Africans in the Aegean 'cuisines' than Rogers, fence sitter Snowden, and Hansberry (mostly inaccessable). DW also, here on ES, introduced me to the power of "falsifiable" proposition, very valuable self-correcting tool. Using it would prevent posting of many an unthought through hypothesis.
In Hokhmath Yisra'el, when examining evidently contradictory yet valid data, if we note, "this and this are the words of Heaven, go by majority, but don't follow a crowd to do evil". 1400 yr old concepts quite applicable to data and the variety of opinions concluded upon examination.
That's why I prefer analyzing the data before doing much more than reading its report's title. Data Miners can produce referenced quotes or even repost whole articles. That's well and serves good purpose, to an extent (gravy/sauce). Thinkers and Paradigm setters go str8 4/t MEAT & POTATOES.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Eurocentrists and their followers over the past few years have tried to use population genetics to deny that Egypt and other civilizations were founded by Blacks.
They can no longer do this because of the Sage (Tukuler). Tukuler forced XYYman and myself to put up or shut up. He forced us to really look deeply into the population genetics research literature. Our literature reviews illustrated that often the Abstract of population genetics papers may not tell you the gems of knowledge found in many papers that support the African character of just about every haplogroup.
I taught research for years at Governors State University. This had indicated to me that population genetics papers are mainly descriptive studies describing the haplogroups researchers found in the genomic samples they examined; and that unless the DNA is ancient, Bayesian statistics is nothing but guesses that rarely, if ever, can be supported by archaeology.
Finally, population genetics can no longer support the idea the Egyptians were not Africans.
Population genetics never denied that ancient Egyptians were Africans. They were geographically Africans but culturally and genetically mostly not "Subsaharan African" aka "black", "negroid" but rather closer to people from the Levant, Anatolians. It's you that have to face the fact that ancient Egyptians were largely not genetically black. What's eurocentric about claiming that modern Copts are the closest people to ancient Egyptians? Nothing. So you are basically attacking a straw man.
Posts: 49 | From: Germany | Registered: Oct 2015
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quote:Originally posted by real expert: Population genetics never denied that ancient Egyptians were Africans. They were geographically Africans but culturally and genetically mostly not "Subsaharan African" aka "black", "negroid" but rather closer to people from the Levant, Anatolians. It's you that have to face the fact that ancient Egyptians were largely not genetically black.
there has not been enough DNA tested to make that determination.
quote: Our analysis showed that Ramesses III and unknown man E shared the same paternal lineage and had identical alleles at autosomal markers, strongly suggesting that they were father and son. However, based on the genetic testing, any differentiation among the several sons of Ramesses III was not possible.
Genetic kinship analyses revealed identical haplotypes in both mummies (table 1); using the Whit Athey’s haplogroup predictor, we determined the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a.
--Revisiting the harem conspiracy and death of Ramesses III: anthropological, forensic, radiological, and genetic study 2012
Zahi Hawass, Albert R Zink, et al
E1b1a That is a distinctively African Haplogroup mtDNA not recorded
Mummies at Abusir el-Meleq is just one site and all but 3 mummies were tested mtDNA only. The vast majority were of the third intermediate and late periods. Of the 3 with full genome profile one was Y DNA E1b
__________________________
So we have a Pharaoh with African DNA and 90 mummies at one location, all but a few later than the New Kingdom that may have African DNA on the paternal side. Therefore there is not enough information yet to make assumptions
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Eurocentrists and their followers over the past few years have tried to use population genetics to deny that Egypt and other civilizations were founded by Blacks.
They can no longer do this because of the Sage (Tukuler). Tukuler forced XYYman and myself to put up or shut up. He forced us to really look deeply into the population genetics research literature. Our literature reviews illustrated that often the Abstract of population genetics papers may not tell you the gems of knowledge found in many papers that support the African character of just about every haplogroup.
I taught research for years at Governors State University. This had indicated to me that population genetics papers are mainly descriptive studies describing the haplogroups researchers found in the genomic samples they examined; and that unless the DNA is ancient, Bayesian statistics is nothing but guesses that rarely, if ever, can be supported by archaeology.
Finally, population genetics can no longer support the idea the Egyptians were not Africans.
Population genetics never denied that ancient Egyptians were Africans. They were geographically Africans but culturally and genetically mostly not "Subsaharan African" aka "black", "negroid" but rather closer to people from the Levant, Anatolians. It's you that have to face the fact that ancient Egyptians were largely not genetically black. What's eurocentric about claiming that modern Copts are the closest people to ancient Egyptians? Nothing. So you are basically attacking a straw man.
See the paper:
"Some groups (using cemeteries E-01-2, E-03-1, E-03-2, and E-09-4) show some affiliation with sub-Saharan Africans, readable in the pottery assemblage and other grave goods, as well as some morphological features (Irish 2010; Kobusiewicz and Kabaciński 2010; Czekaj-Zastawny and Kabaciński 2015)." Gebel Ramlah—a Unique Newborns’ Cemetery of the Neolithic Sahara. ~Agnieszka Czekaj-Zastawny & Tomasz Goslar & Joel D. Irish & Jacek Kabaciński
OK A-M13 L3f Ok A-M13 L0a1 OK B-M150 L3d OK E-M2 L3e5 OK E-M2 L2a1 OK E-M123 L5a1 OK E-M35 R0a OK E-M41 L2a1 OK E-M41 L1b1a OK E-M75 M1 OK E-M78 L4b OK J-M267 L3i OK R-M173 L2 OK T-M184 L0a
MK A-M13 L3x MK E-M75 L2a1 MK E-M78 L3e5 MK E-M78 M1a MK E-M96 L4a MK E-V6 L3 MK B-M112 L0b
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by real expert: Population genetics never denied that ancient Egyptians were Africans. They were geographically Africans but culturally and genetically mostly not "Subsaharan African" aka "black", "negroid" but rather closer to people from the Levant, Anatolians. It's you that have to face the fact that ancient Egyptians were largely not genetically black. What's eurocentric about claiming that modern Copts are the closest people to ancient Egyptians? Nothing. So you are basically attacking a straw man.
You seem to be promoting the genetic version of the outdated anthropological concept of "true Negro" in the form of "sub-Saharan".
There are two problems with this premise:
Firstly, the Sahara desert as we know it today did not always exist. During the Holocene there was a wet phase which made North Africa as fertile and green as the Serengeti. Flora and fauna native to Sub-Sahara today was common in North Africa and beyond (the Levant). The same could be said for human populations.
Secondly, the human populations of Sub-Sahara are the genetically the most diverse in the world due to being the oldest. Most genetic analyses like the one used in the Nature study of the Abusir mummies would often use West African groups like the Yoruba as a proxy for 'Sub-Saharans' even though there are Sub-Saharan populations who are genetically very distant from them.
Lastly in regard to the Nature study you cite about ancient Egyptians having Anatolian and Levantine ancestry, such a premise rest solely on the claim that the Abusir mummies sampled are representative of indigenous ancient Egyptians even though the samples come from Late periods of pharaonic history which interestingly even anthropologists say skeletal remains from that era are very different from indigenous Egyptians. Which begs the question as to why no DNA samples from King Tut, Ramessu, or better yet from remains from the Giza pyramid era were never tested.
As for modern 'Copts'. Coptic is a Christian denomination and Coptic Egyptians can range from people in Alexandria who are predominantly or entirely European in ancestry to Sa'idi Copts of southern Upper Egypt.
posted
^More research needs to be done on the Anatolian and Levantine to who these people actually were, because I read a lot of back-and-forth theories.
quote: “Dataset preparation for population genetic analyses Genotypes were called in GD13a at sites which overlapped those in the Human Origins dataset (Lazaridis et al.17, filtered as described in Jones et al.24) using GATK Pileup44 [...] whilst PCA also revealed some affinity with modern Central South Asian populations such as Balochi, Makrani and Brahui (Fig. 1A and Fig. S4) [...] The phenotypic attributes of GD13a are similar to the neighbouring Anatolian early farmers and Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers. Based on diagnostic SNPs, she had dark, black hair and brown eyes (see Supplementary). She lacked the derived variant (rs16891982) of the SLC45A2 gene associated with light skin pigmentation but likely had at least one copy of the derived SLC24A5 allele (rs1426654) associated with the same trait. The derived SLC24A5 variant has been found in both Neolithic farmer and Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer groups5,15,24 suggesting that it was already at appreciable frequency before these populations diverged. Finally, she did not have the most common European variant of the LCT gene (rs4988235) associated with the ability to digest raw milk, consistent with the later emergence of this adaptation5,15,21”
~M. Gallego-Llorente, R. Pinhasi et al. The genetics of an early Neolithic pastoralist from the Zagros, Iran
quote: "This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al 2005)..”
~F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens.(2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology. 80:5, pp. 535-564
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: See the paper:
"Some groups (using cemeteries E-01-2, E-03-1, E-03-2, and E-09-4) show some affiliation with sub-Saharan Africans, readable in the pottery assemblage and other grave goods, as well as some morphological features (Irish 2010; Kobusiewicz and Kabaciński 2010; Czekaj-Zastawny and Kabaciński 2015)." Gebel Ramlah—a Unique Newborns’ Cemetery of the Neolithic Sahara. ~Agnieszka Czekaj-Zastawny & Tomasz Goslar & Joel D. Irish & Jacek Kabaciński
OK A-M13 L3f Ok A-M13 L0a1 OK B-M150 L3d OK E-M2 L3e5 OK E-M2 L2a1 OK E-M123 L5a1 OK E-M35 R0a OK E-M41 L2a1 OK E-M41 L1b1a OK E-M75 M1 OK E-M78 L4b OK J-M267 L3i OK R-M173 L2 OK T-M184 L0a
posted
I know I replied to real expert but it was pointless.
As I recall when he was posted many months ago he doesn't respond to any counter arguments. He's hit and run
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: See the paper:
"Some groups (using cemeteries E-01-2, E-03-1, E-03-2, and E-09-4) show some affiliation with sub-Saharan Africans, readable in the pottery assemblage and other grave goods, as well as some morphological features (Irish 2010; Kobusiewicz and Kabaciński 2010; Czekaj-Zastawny and Kabaciński 2015)." Gebel Ramlah—a Unique Newborns’ Cemetery of the Neolithic Sahara. ~Agnieszka Czekaj-Zastawny & Tomasz Goslar & Joel D. Irish & Jacek Kabaciński
OK A-M13 L3f Ok A-M13 L0a1 OK B-M150 L3d OK E-M2 L3e5 OK E-M2 L2a1 OK E-M123 L5a1 OK E-M35 R0a OK E-M41 L2a1 OK E-M41 L1b1a OK E-M75 M1 OK E-M78 L4b OK J-M267 L3i OK R-M173 L2 OK T-M184 L0a
You are citing articles and then you have a list of haplogroups not related to the reference at all and that have no article source
That's fraud
One source is from a paper that is out now, and one source was posted by Beyoku years ago, from a paper that is still in a buffer. Lovely Lioness, I don't see the issue?
So both sources show relations to "sub" Sahara Africa. Something "Real Expert" ignored.
As per "Real Expert": "They were geographically Africans but culturally and genetically mostly not "Subsaharan African" aka "black", "negroid"
And as of now I am deconstructing this thing, which I call "the Nile Valley cultures". And the inhabitation at Anatolia and the Levant.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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OK A-M13 L3f Ok A-M13 L0a1 OK B-M150 L3d OK E-M2 L3e5 OK E-M2 L2a1 OK E-M123 L5a1 OK E-M35 R0a OK E-M41 L2a1 OK E-M41 L1b1a OK E-M75 M1 OK E-M78 L4b OK J-M267 L3i OK R-M173 L2 OK T-M184 L0a
^^ to anybody reading this. The above is not from a published article. The source is unknown could be completely fake and cannot be used to argue anything. It is not a buffer to anything
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ What's the matter, Lioness? If one didn't know any better, one would assume you are threatened by such findings. And what if those findings were to be published in a verified peer reviewed source, what will your excuse be then?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What's the matter, Lioness? If one didn't know any better, one would assume you are threatened by such findings. And what if those findings were to be published in a verified peer reviewed source, what will your excuse be then?
I am not threatened whatsoever about whoever the Egyptian were or were or were not. I am threaten by people calling things "findings" when there is no evidence that they they are findings and trying to pass them off as credible in any way
and the passing have time has further cast doubt on those things
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ This coming from the person who used to not properly cite sources.
quote:Originally posted by real expert: They were geographically Africans but *culturally* and genetically mostly not "Subsaharan African" aka "black", "negroid" but rather closer to people from the Levant, Anatolians.
Yes, I forgot to add that 'expert' apparently knows nothing about Sub-Saharan cultures because if he did, he would realize that at least culturally ancient Egypt had more in common with Sub-Sahara than it did with the Levant and Anatolia.
Some examples:
Divine Kingship: The pharaoh was seen as both king and god and is believed to have divine powers. This belief is widespread in Africa. Whereas many peoples in Sudan and East Africa have a "rain-maker" king, the Egyptian king is believed to make the Nile flood.
the significant role of women: women in Egyptian society were not suppressed like those of the Near-East and had active roles in public life. They had freedom and independence and could run their own businesses and own their own properties. Again this is prevalent in African societies.
Circumcision Rites: The Egyptians practiced circumcision as a rite of passage for boys into adulthood, as do many African peoples.
sacred colors & numbers: The Egyptians, like many Africans held sacred beliefs for certain numbers like 1 for the beginning of all, 2 for duality, and the color black for life and regeneration and the color red for chaos and destruction. Many Africans also share these beliefs. Many groups in East Africa worship a supremed deity that is concieved of as black whereas destructive deities are red.
Totemism & their taboos: The Egyptians held certain animals and plants to be sacred because they are living symbols of their gods. Another belief prevalent in black Africa.
Ancestor veneration: The Egyptians believed in honoring their departed and deceased. They would hold feasts and make images of their dead etc. These beliefs are also common to Africa
Zar possession rituals: Even today in rural parts of Egypt, they continue to practice the possession ritual of Zar that is practiced by Africans from East to West. It is even a special ritual among West African voodoo! And speaking of voodoo...
The Practice of Magic (Voodoo): The Egyptians believed in the power of magic and used them in many rituals. There were execration rituals in which images of enemies were made and destroyed. Or images of enemies made on the Pharaohs sandals so he may symbolically step on them. The key to Egyptian (and essentially all African) beliefs in magic is the symbolism. The power of magic is to make the symbolic real. Like voodoo dolls etc..
98.1016 CERVELLÓ AUTUORI, Joseph, Egypt, Africa and the Ancient World, in: Proceedings 7th Int. Congress of Egyptologists, 261-272. (fig.).
The traditional contextualisation of Egypt in the 'Mediterranean' or 'Near Eastern' world has been produced by a phenomenon of western historiography that we can classify as the 'forgotten Africa'. The reopening of the African question in Egyptology has proceeded from the pre- and protohistorians of the Nile Valley and of northern Africa in general. The inclusion of late prehistoric Egypt in Africa determines the essentially African nature of many of the central features of Pharaonic civilisation and explains the many parallels between ancient Egypt and both the ancient Saharan and modern black civilisations. The author discusses examples of the iconographic-symbolic parallels between Saharan rock art and Egyptian art, and the principal cultural characteristics shared by ancient Egypt and modern black Africa. The African nature of Egyptian civilisation can be seen most clearly in the institution of Pharaonic kingship. M.W.K. From Cultural similarities between contemporary Africa explained through Sahara
A large number of gods go back to prehistoric times. The images of a cow and star goddess (Hathor), the falcon (Horus), and the human-shaped figures of the fertility god (Min) can be traced back to that period. Some rites, such as the "running of the Apis-bull," the "hoeing of the ground," and other fertility and hunting rites (e.g., the hippopotamus hunt) presumably date from early times.. Connections with the religions in southwest Asia cannot be traced with certainty." "It is doubtful whether Osiris can be regarded as equal to Tammuz or Adonis, or whether Hathor is related to the "Great Mother." There are closer relations with northeast African religions. The numerous animal cults (especially bovine cults and panther gods) and details of ritual dresses (animal tails, masks, grass aprons, etc) probably are of African origin. The kinship in particular shows some African elements, such as the king as the head ritualist (i.e., medicine man), the limitations and renewal of the reign (jubilees, regicide), and the position of the king's mother (a matriarchal element). Some of them can be found among the Ethiopians in Napata and Meroe, others among the Prenilotic tribes (Shilluk). (Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian Religion" , pg 506-508) From Topic: 1- Basic database of Nile Valley studies
OK A-M13 L3f Ok A-M13 L0a1 OK B-M150 L3d OK E-M2 L3e5 OK E-M2 L2a1 OK E-M123 L5a1 OK E-M35 R0a OK E-M41 L2a1 OK E-M41 L1b1a OK E-M75 M1 OK E-M78 L4b OK J-M267 L3i OK R-M173 L2 OK T-M184 L0a
^^ to anybody reading this. The above is not from a published article. The source is unknown could be completely fake and cannot be used to argue anything. It is not a buffer to anything
It's a buffer, as Beyuko himself told in the interview with 42-Tribes. It's not made up. The only thing that is made up here is that you made up that it's made up.
And instead of arguing over this, why don't you answer relevant questions that have been addressed towards you specifically.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What's the matter, Lioness? If one didn't know any better, one would assume you are threatened by such findings. And what if those findings were to be published in a verified peer reviewed source, what will your excuse be then?
I am not threatened whatsoever about whoever the Egyptian were or were or were not. I am threaten by people calling things "findings" when there is no evidence that they they are findings and trying to pass them off as credible in any way
and the passing have time has further cast doubt on those things
It takes years for a paper to be finalized and peer reviewed in it's findings. And another factor that plays part is politics.
The fact that physical anthropology findings don't correlate with some of the genetics claims in papers is much telling.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I agree with Lioness. This should be considered FAKE until proven otherwise. May have been made up by Beyoku, setting us up to use fake data. No fake data is needed. The Amarnas are undoubtedly pure indigenous genetic Africans while the Abusir genetic dataset was manipulated because the CODIS STRs tested in the Amarnas were deleted before being released. Contacting the author Scheunemann for the STR data got no response. She is on the run.
ALL the STRs were removed. I repeat ALL!!!!! They have something to hide.
You cannot unilaterally use SNPs to denote ancestral patterns.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
This is still in the buffer:
OK A-M13 L3f Ok A-M13 L0a1 OK B-M150 L3d OK E-M2 L3e5 OK E-M2 L2a1 OK E-M123 L5a1 OK E-M35 R0a OK E-M41 L2a1 OK E-M41 L1b1a OK E-M75 M1 OK E-M78 L4b OK J-M267 L3i OK R-M173 L2 OK T-M184 L0a
^^ to anybody reading this. The above is not from a published article. The source is unknown could be completely fake and cannot be used to argue anything. It is not a buffer to anything
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Furthermore. SNPs can be manipulated to give ancestral patterns. I have been saying this all along. The right tools needs to be used. Here is someone that agrees with me. ----- QUOTE:
Graphing the truth
I haven't used TreeMix since qpGraph became freely available for Linux. Among other things, the latter offers greater control, reproducibility and transparency.
However, I'd say that in its current form qpGraph is **not** the most objective way to analyze data. That's because if you're really good with it, and you want a graph to work, then often you can make it work[b] by tweaking whatever it is that needs to be tweaked.
It's not possible to do a lot of tweaking with TreeMix. Indeed, once the user picks the samples for the TreeMix run, the rest of the process can be totally **unsupervised**, and thus **free from human interference**. Obviously, that's not a guarantee of accuracy, but it can be useful.
I feel I need to run more unsupervised analyses, especially when exploring new data. So to that end, I've dusted off TreeMix and will be using it regularly again.
There's been some talk lately online about migrations from Central Asia giving rise to the Eneolithic populations of the North Caucasus Piedmont steppe. In my opinion, that sounds like a bunch of horseshit. But let's see what TreeMix has to say on the matter. In the graphs below look for the samples labeled Progress_En and Vonyuchka_En, respectively.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I agree with Lioness. This should be considered FAKE until proven otherwise. May have been made up by Beyoku, setting us up to use fake data. No fake data is needed. The Amarnas are undoubtedly pure indigenous genetic Africans while the Abusir genetic dataset was manipulated because the CODIS STRs tested in the Amarnas were deleted before being released. Contacting the author Scheunemann for the STR data got no response. She is the run.
Did you listen to the interview where 42-Tribes interviewed Beyoku, when he explained from where he got that data?
Secondly, I posted that "buffer" in correlation with the recent physical anthropological evidence.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Hahahhah
Wasn't it gpGraph that had W Afr with GrtBrit admixture from a time before all the GrtBrit component ancestries was not yet inhabiting the British Isles?
Suckuhs fell 4 it too.
Oh, and thx 4 hippin us to the supervised run game years ago Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
Yeah. Simply means "preferentially" SNPs are used. ie Human manipulation. In other words high frequency "European" SNPs are chosen to skew the results.
UnSupervised is more accurate for determine relatedness. Let the computer do its thing without human interference.
Check out new paper on 8000yo West Africans.....yep!!!!!! We got West African aDNA circa 3000-8000years ago!!!!!!!!!. Thing is, Reich led the team behind the scene. You know the data will be skewed.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
It would nice to see how these 8000yo West Africans align with ...the Brits or Cheddar Man and La Brana.
They are NOT aligned with....you guessed it.....modern West Africans.
TOLD YOU ALL SO!!!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
No thing TP. I know where Beyoku SAID where he got the data from. I am not sure it is true data, I am saying if it is not published ...then take it with a pitch of salt as my grandma use to say.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Yeah. Simply means "preferentially" SNPs are used. ie Human manipulation. In other words high frequency "European" SNPs are chosen to skew the results.
UnSupervised is more accurate for determine relatedness. Let the computer do its thing without human interference.
Check out new paper on 8000yo West Africans.....yep!!!!!! We got West African aDNA circa 3000-8000years ago!!!!!!!!!. Thing is, Reich led the team behind the scene. You know the data will be skewed.
Have you tried Gethub open source software for comparison?
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: No thing TP. I know where Beyoku SAID where he got the data from. I am not sure it is true data, I am saying if it is not published ...then take it with a pitch of salt as my grandma use to say.
That is not what Beyoku said. Unless Grandma is presenting data at a symposium for geneologist you'd have a point.
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