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Author Topic: 1- Basic database of Nile Valley studies
Ish Gebor
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26th Dynasty (Saites)

Kings

Mencheperre Necho I 672-664
Wahibra Psamtik I (Psammetichus I) 664-610
Wehemibra Necho II 610-595
Neferibra Psamtik II (Psammetichus II) 595-589
Ha'a'ibra Wahibra (Apries) 589-567
Chenibra Amose-si-Neith (Amasis) 570-526
Anchkaenra Psamtik III (Psammetichus III) 526-525


Necho I: ruler of the Western Delta between 672 and 664 BCE, founder of the Saite dynasty.
  • 673: The first Assyrian invasion of Egypt is repelled
  • 671: Second Assyrian invasion: Esarhaddon captures Memphis and forces pharaoh Taharqo (Twenty-Fifth Dynasty) to flee to the south
  • Necho is recognized as governor of the western Delta
  • 669: Taharqo returns to the north, Esarhaddon gathers his troops, but dies; Taharqo captures Memphis and forces the local leaders to support him again
  • 667/666: The Assyrian king Aššurbanipal attacks Egypt again, sacks Thebes, and deports the local leaders from Lower Egypt
  • 666: Necho returns, appointed as viceroy of Memphis and Sais; his son Psammetichus is intended successor
  • 664: Death of Taharqo; his successor Tanwetamani proceeds to Memphis, but is defeated by Necho, who is killed in actionnote
    Psammetichus flees to Assyria, receives Assyrian support, and is put on the throne
    Succeeded

http://www.livius.org/articles/person/necho-i/

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Recent studies confirm other scholarship that
some artifacts of Predynastic Egypt show close links
with nearby sister African cultures in the Sudan
region, (including religious links) rather than
the alleged universal "mother goddess" models of
various Indo-Europeans.


 -
QUOTE:
"In 1962, Peter Ucko wrote his landmark work, The
Interpretation of Prehistoric Anthropomorphic
Figurines, challenging and permanently changing
the prevailing view of prehistoric figurines as
representations of a universal great mother
goddess. His work focused on the Predynastic
figurines of Egypt, and concluded that there was
nothing divine about them. They were probably
dolls, ancestor figures, talismanic pregnancy
aids, tools for sex instruction and puberty
rites, twin substitutes in graves and concubine grave
figurines. Since then, this group of figurines
has received minimal attention. Using Ucko’s
four-stage methodology, this study more closely
examines these figurines in the context of
Ancient Egyptian culture and religion, with
specific attention to the contemporary Sudanese
religious beliefs and practices, which may share
roots with Predynastic Egyptian culture. This
study concludes that some Dynastic religious
beliefs and iconography relating to female deities
can be recognised in many of these figurines, and
can be traced back to prehistoric Nilotic rituals."

--Relke 2011. The Predynastic Dancing Egyptian
Figurine. Journal of Religion in Africa, Volume
41, Issue 4, pages 396 - 426


OTHER SCHOLARSHIP CONFIRMS THE SAME

 -

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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 -
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beyoku
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
 -

Why have an image of a woman in a graph that speaks on Y-Chromosomes? Women dont have Y-Chromosomes. [Cool]
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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But mothers do give birth to men.. [Smile]


EGYPT'S PIONEERING DEVELOPMENT OF WRITING- NON-ALPHABETICAL AND ALPHABETICAL

 -


Egypt a pioneer of writing before Mesopotamia
"The earliest known Sumerian writings date back to 3000BC while the
German team's find shows that Abydos inscriptions date to 3400BC. The
first Pharaonic dynasty began in 2920BC with King Menes. The earliest
known writing in Dynasty Zero is much earlier than the oldest writing
discovered in Mesopotamia."

--Gaballa Ali Gaballa, Secretary-General of the
Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities:
1999. IN: Nevine El-Aref, "Did writing originate
in Egypt?" Al-Ahram Weekly: 1 - 7 April 1999, Issue No. 423


Certain writing forms in Mesopotamia and only understandable from
Egyptian perspective


"[Archaeologist] Dreyer asserted that the obsidian used to make this
bowl came from Ethiopia suggesting significant cultural contacts among
Nile Valley populations. He concluded his presentation by noting
similarities between specific Egyptian and Mesopotamian objects and
suggesting that perhaps there is an initial influence of Egyptian writing on
Mesopotamia because there are signs on Mesopotamian objects that are
only "readable" from the standpoint of the Egyptian language, but not the
Mesopotamian language."

-- German archaeologist Gunther Dreyer. 2000. "Beginnings of Writing
in Ancient Egypt" IN: - "Recent Finds in Predynastic Egypt." ANKH
Journal 8/9: 1999-2000.


 -

Africa's Nile Valley shares in creation of the historic alphabet

"Discoveries by Gunter Dreyer of the German Archaeological Institute
suggest that the origin of Egyptian writing needs to be reexamined,
offering the possibility that the idea of writing was developed in Egypt
several centuries before it occurred in the Near East. Inscriptions from
hundreds of pots and labels found at the royal cemetery at Abydos show
some hieroglyphic writing as far back as 3400 BCE, with most occurring
about 3200 BCE. Sumerian writing seems to have begun about 3100 BCE.
The Egyptians formed and used writing in a different way than the Asians.
The linguistic pictographs of Sumer were rudimentary were used primarily
used for commerce. Those of Egypt were more representational of real
objects and were primarily employed to identify kings, tombs and the like.

A remarkable find involving early experiments with alphabetic writing in
Egypt has been recently made by John C. Darnell, an Egyptologist at Yale
University, and his wife Deborah. Inscriptions discovered in the limestone
cliffs on an ancient road between Thebes and Abydos, a route once heavily
traveled by Asian traders and mercenaries in the Egyptian desert, are in a
Semitic script with Egyptian influences. Dated between 1900 and 1000
BCE, they are two or three centuries older than previous evidence of an
alphabet in the Semitic-speaking territory of the Sinai Peninsula or in the
Syria-Palestine region occupied by the Canaanites. While there have
always been indications that Semites were inventors of the alphabet,
researchers had heretofore assumed that it was developed in their own
lands by borrowing and simplifying Egyptian hieroglyphs. Instead
Darnell's discovery now suggests that, working with Semitic speakers in
Egypt, native scribes simplified formal pictographic Egyptian writing and
modified the symbols into an early alphabet using a semi-cursive form
commonly used in the Middle Kingdom."


--Martin Isler (2001). Sticks, stones, and shadows: building the Egyptian
pyramids. Univ of Oklahoma PRess. p. 56


 -
The Egyptian Western Desert- location of Egyptian military scripts
adopted by both Egyptian scribes and Semitic speakers into alphabetic forms

http://www.codex99.com/typography/11.html


"However, now with the recovery of alphabetic writing from the
Egyptian Western Desert, the fairly high degree of literacy in Egyptian
(knowledge of hieratic, and a hybrid of hieratic and hieroglyphic scripts as
well) presumed by these texts, and the well known Asiatic pres-ence
within Egypt proper from the early Dynastic periods onwards, strongly
suggest that it is to Egypt itself that we must look for the geographi-cal
home of alphabetic writing. More specifically, the Bebi inscription and its
immediate neighbors offer tantalizing clues about the context in which
Semitic-speaking Asiatics adopted and adapted certain aspects of the
Egyptian writing system for the needs of their own language(s). The
Egyptian military, known both to have employed Asiatics (as the Bebi
inscription so wonderfully attests) and to have included scribes, would
provide one likely context in which Western Asiatic Semitic language
speakers could have learned and eventually adapted the Egyptian writing
system. Indeed, the prominence of lapidary hieratic, the form of hieratic
utilized by army scribes, as models for alphabetic forms at the Wadi el-Hõl
(and at Serabit).."

--J. Darnell et al. 2005. Two Early Alphabetic Inscriptions from the Wadi
el-Hol: New Evidence for the Origin of the Alphabet from the Western
Desert of Egypt, Annual of the American Schools of Oriental Research
2005.

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DD'eDeN
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
More precision needed. If Kemet means black land, HOW
PRECISELY is it related to "Djibouti" which seems to link with "cannibal"or "pot" or "jab" or something
else according to various sources?
https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=233866

And if you are picking out various sound matches associations,
why is your particular sound match claim more authoritative than
a sound match with something from Arabia or India?
Try to show the relevant association and link between the two
DIRECTLY and PRECISELY. Not a mass of stuff on something peripheral,
but the two words or terms- Kemet and Djibouti.

- - -
I just saw your response. I may be wrong.
aXuMiTe/(e)KMT/(e)GBT/eJeBw'eTe/dJiBouTi/Jyambo.tswe

KMT = black land? not found.

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Swenet
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Bump.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
^Do you have anything rare/new on pre-dynastic lower Egyptians? Only data that comes to mind is Petrie's Tarkhan cemetery (thought to be the "Anu" in the flesh due to their supposedly peculiar chin morphologies which they're said to share with Tera Netjer) and some other skeletal remains from Maadi and Heliopolis. Also, Junker's predynastic lower Egyptian remains from Tura come to mind. From their descriptions these all seem to be local variants of the predynastic Upper Egyptian modal pattern, with some variations tending towards (but still maintaining some distance from) what would later appear in the record as the "lower Egyptian" pattern. This is also what Patricia Smith says about some of these samples. None seem to have been as distinctly "lower Egyptian" as some of the 1st dynasty royal Egyptians from Abydos.

On Maadi South (left):
 -  -
https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/most_ancient.pdf


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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
Bump.

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
^Do you have anything rare/new on pre-dynastic lower Egyptians? Only data that comes to mind is Petrie's Tarkhan cemetery (thought to be the "Anu" in the flesh due to their supposedly peculiar chin morphologies which they're said to share with Tera Netjer) and some other skeletal remains from Maadi and Heliopolis. Also, Junker's predynastic lower Egyptian remains from Tura come to mind. From their descriptions these all seem to be local variants of the predynastic Upper Egyptian modal pattern, with some variations tending towards (but still maintaining some distance from) what would later appear in the record as the "lower Egyptian" pattern. This is also what Patricia Smith says about some of these samples. None seem to have been as distinctly "lower Egyptian" as some of the 1st dynasty royal Egyptians from Abydos.

On Maadi South (left):
 -  -
https://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/most_ancient.pdf


Might as well add this old stuff from the vault while I'm at it:

 -

Source:
The Origin of Civilization: The Case of Egypt and Mesopotamia from Several Disciplines, p134

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Swenet
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Nvr mind. picture seems to work fine now.
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Good info. Some of these older studies can reveal surprising tidbits,
as we saw when Keita went back and looked at old excavation reports.

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Swenet
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Yep, and there is more out there. Wink, wink.
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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 -

Scientific studies show that one of the oldest modern human remains
from Egypt, at Nazlet Khater, demonstrates strong sub-Saharan affinities,
and parts of early Egypt and Sudan also shows sub-Saharan affinities
through the regional 'Nubian complex' of culture and lithic technology.

QUOTE:


"The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet
Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical
procedures.. The results indicate a strong association between some of the
sub-Saharan Middle Stone Age (MSA) specimens, and the Nazlet Khater
mandible. Furthermore, the results suggest that variability between African
populations during the Neolithic and Protohistoric periods was more
pronounced than the range of variability observed among recent African
and Levantine populations."
--PINHASI Ron, SEMAL Patrick (2000). The position of the Nazlet
Khater specimen among prehistoric and modern African and Levantine
populations. Jrl Hum Evo. 2000, vol. 39, no3, pp. 269-288 )

"..Middle Paleolithic and the transition to the Upper Paleolithic in the
Lower Nile Valley are described... the Middle Paleolithic or, more
appropriately, Middle Stone Age of this region starts with the arrival of
new populations from sub-Saharan Africa, as evidenced by the nature of
the Early to Middle Stone Age transition in stratified sites. Throughout the
late Middle Pleistocene technological change occurs leading to the
establishment of the Nubian Complex by the onset of the Upper
Pleistocene." --Van Peer, P. Did middle stone age moderns of sub-Saharan
African descent trigger an upper paleolithic revolution in the lower nile
valley? Anthro. V42,n3, 215-225

"Nazlet Khater man was the earliest modern human skeleton found near
Luxor, in 1980. The remains was dated from between 35,000 and
30,000 years ago. The report regarding the racial affinity of this skeleton
concludes: "Strong alveolar prognathism combined with fossa
praenasalis in an African skull is suggestive of Negroid morphology [form
& structure]. The radio-humeral index of Nazlet Khater is practically the
same as the mean of Taforalt (76.6). According to Ferembach (1965) this
value is near to the Negroid average."

--Thoma A., Morphology and affinities of the Nazlet Khater man, Jrnl of
Human Evolution, vol 13, 1984.

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sudaniya
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Question:

Did Frank M. Snowden ever at least concede that Upper Egypt was closely related to North Sudan during the predynastic period? Or did he die insisting that the ancient Egyptians were mahogany brown "Caucasians" unrelated to North-east Africans?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan's homie Mike111:
.


http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Misc/Human_Race/The_black_human_race.htm


.

 -


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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by zarahan's homie Mike111:
.


http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Misc/Human_Race/The_black_human_race.htm


.

 -


[Big Grin] [Roll Eyes]

In one way it is sad, one has to repeat it this often. On the other hand repetition is king.


quote:


Southeast and south Asian populations are also often thought to be derived from the admixture of various combinations of western Eurasians (‘Caucasoids’), east Asians and Australasians.
...

These findings, coupled with the recently discovered presence of haplogroup U in Ethiopia [11], support a scenario in which a northeast African population dispersed out of Africa into India, presumably through the Arabian peninsula, before 50,000 years ago (Figure 2). Other migrations into India also occurred, but rarely from western Eurasian populations.
...

Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’— that is, part of a diverse north or north-east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago.

--Todd R. Disotell.

Human evolution: The southern route to Asia

Volume 9, Issue 24, 30 December 1999, Pages R925–R928

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Elite Diasporan
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@Ish

Is your PM full? Need your urgent opinion on something.

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
@Ish

Is your PM full? Need your urgent opinion on something.

It's cleaned up a bit.
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Elite Diasporan
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
@Ish

Is your PM full? Need your urgent opinion on something.

It's cleaned up a bit.
Sent.
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Question:

Did Frank M. Snowden ever at least concede that Upper Egypt was closely related to North Sudan during the predynastic period? Or did he die insisting that the ancient Egyptians were mahogany brown "Caucasians" unrelated to North-east Africans?

Good question. That one I'll have to check out. Far as I remember
Snowden pushed a version of the stereotypical "true negro" model,
in which everything not meeting the stereotypical construct was dismissed,
downplayed, or folded into some sort of "mixed race" model.

But even a "mixed race" model falls under popular EUro and American
race constructs since being "partially black" STILL makes you black.
SO it has been for well nigh three centuries in America for example.

While quick to criticize so-called "Afrocentrics" for focusing on race
Snowden himself uses the same race categories to push his model,
and studiously avoids the implications of the "one drop" standard,
namely, that using the same categories he is using, the Egyptians
would have been recognized as "black." Snowden wants to have
it both ways. He uses Eurocentric "true negro" categories, but
rather than be consistent and use the accompanying Eurocentric
"one drop" construct, he cops out, or changes the subject.

 -
^^At least Mary Lefkowitz, to be consistent, has to acknowledge that
in terms of said construct, the ancient Egyptians would/are "black."


The above is not to say that Snowden does that have some
valuable data to present, but not only is he dated, he also has
an inconsistent double standard. If you are using standard Eurocentric race
conceptions, how come you are all too willing to use the "true negro"
piece, but then want to skip over the "one drop" side of the coin?
A similar inconsistency marks several other writers in the field.

------------------------
Here is what Snowden has to say in one article:

"There was also a mixed black-white element in
the Egyptian population as early as the middle of
the third millenium BC. In fact, the earliest clearly
recognizable Egyptian portrait of a black is preserved
in a limestone head of a woman, together with that
of her Egyptian husband, a prince from the court of Memphis."

--Snowden 1997. Misconceptions about African Blacks
in the Ancient Mediterranean World: Specialists and Afrocentrists


Snowden's notion of "earliest clearly recognizable
Egyptian portrait of a black" refers to the limestone head
circa 2600BC, from the Old Kingdom. But "recognizable"
portraiture prior to 2600BC does show "black" features- by
contemporary Euro-American race construct standards-
so how does Snowden claim that the first "recognizable"
black folk don't show up until 2600BC?

He also says that there were "mixed black-white elements"
around as early as the 3rd millenium. OK but even going with this,
if there were "mixed" elements, clearly somebody "black"
or "negroid" had to be in place way back then to do any "mixing."
Snowden conveniently skips over such things, just as he skips
portraiture prior to his magic 2600BC cut-off date.

 -


In Snowden's defense, to could be argued that his "true negro"
approach is rooted in his 1970s book - Before Color Prejudice,
and similar work, and was fairly standard for that time.
Still this does not fully excuse him- some of his published
work occurs after the Keita's exhaustive research on
the question, and he must have been well aware of the limb proportion
and other studies that preceded that. Lefkowitz references Keita
in one of her book and also uses Snowden in the same book so
the info on the question was well within the research of a
scholar like him.

In his "Misconceptions" piece above Snowden extensively
rails against "Afocentrics" who denounce valid criticisms
as "Eurocentric racism" or the product of "traitorous"
Uncle Toms. But he can produce no such statements by one
of the leading "Afrocentriscs" of all time, Cheikh
Anta Diop. And his piece conveniently skips over the
valid criticism not only Afrocentrics BUT mainstream
Eurocentric scholars have made about "race" work in the Nile
Valley. Snowden has some good info to offer, but his work
itself is marred by distortion and double standards.

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sudaniya
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Question:

Did Frank M. Snowden ever at least concede that Upper Egypt was closely related to North Sudan during the predynastic period? Or did he die insisting that the ancient Egyptians were mahogany brown "Caucasians" unrelated to North-east Africans?

Good question. That one I'll have to check out. Far as I remember
Snowden pushed a version of the stereotypical "true negro" model,
in which everything not meeting the stereotypical construct was dismissed,
downplayed, or folded into some sort of "mixed race" model.

But even a "mixed race" model falls under popular EUro and American
race constructs since being "partially black" STILL makes you black.
SO it has been for well nigh three centuries in America for example.

While quick to criticize so-called "Afrocentrics" for focusing on race
Snowden himself uses the same race categories to push his model,
and studiously avoids the implications of the "one drop" standard,
namely, that using the same categories he is using, the Egyptians
would have been recognized as "black." Snowden wants to have
it both ways. He uses Eurocentric "true negro" categories, but
rather than be consistent and use the accompanying Eurocentric
"one drop" construct, he cops out, or changes the subject.

 -
^^At least Mary Lefkowitz, to be consistent, has to acknowledge that
in terms of said construct, the ancient Egyptians would/are "black."


The above is not to say that Snowden does that have some
valuable data to present, but not only is he dated, he also has
an inconsistent double standard. If you are using standard Eurocentric race
conceptions, how come you are all too willing to use the "true negro"
piece, but then want to skip over the "one drop" side of the coin?
A similar inconsistency marks several other writers in the field.

------------------------
Here is what Snowden has to say in one article:

"There was also a mixed black-white element in
the Egyptian population as early as the middle of
the third millenium BC. In fact, the earliest clearly
recognizable Egyptian portrait of a black is preserved
in a limestone head of a woman, together with that
of her Egyptian husband, a prince from the court of Memphis."

--Snowden 1997. Misconceptions about African Blacks
in the Ancient Mediterranean World: Specialists and Afrocentrists


Snowden's notion of "earliest clearly recognizable
Egyptian portrait of a black" refers to the limestone head
circa 2600BC, from the Old Kingdom. But "recognizable"
portraiture prior to 2600BC does show "black" features- by
contemporary Euro-American race construct standards-
so how does Snowden claim that the first "recognizable"
black folk don't show up until 2600BC?

He also says that there were "mixed black-white elements"
around as early as the 3rd millenium. OK but even going with this,
if there were "mixed" elements, clearly somebody "black"
or "negroid" had to be in place way back then to do any "mixing."
Snowden conveniently skips over such things, just as he skips
portraiture prior to his magic 2600BC cut-off date.

 -


In Snowden's defense, to could be argued that his "true negro"
approach is rooted in his 1970s book - Before Color Prejudice,
and similar work, and was fairly standard for that time.
Still this does not fully excuse him- some of his published
work occurs after the Keita's exhaustive research on
the question, and he must have been well aware of the limb proportion
and other studies that preceded that. Lefkowitz references Keita
in one of her book and also uses Snowden in the same book so
the info on the question was well within the research of a
scholar like him.

In his "Misconceptions" piece above Snowden extensively
rails against "Afocentrics" who denounce valid criticisms
as "Eurocentric racism" or the product of "traitorous"
Uncle Toms. But he can produce no such statements by one
of the leading "Afrocentriscs" of all time, Cheikh
Anta Diop. And his piece conveniently skips over the
valid criticism not only Afrocentrics BUT mainstream
Eurocentric scholars have made about "race" work in the Nile
Valley. Snowden has some good info to offer, but his work
itself is marred by distortion and double standards.

I never understood Frank M. Snowden and his motivations. It does seem that he so desperately craved the approval of the Eurocentric matrix in Egyptology and the disciplines, and even they thought that his works acceded far too much credit to black Africans. There was no "white" element in ancient Egypt [in the European sense] so I don't understand what on earth he was on about.

He said this this:

quote:
The art of ancient Egypt frequently painted Egyptian men as reddish brown, women as yellow, and people to the south as black.
Ancient Egyptians, like their modern descendants, varied in complexion from a light Mediterranean type, to a light brown in Middle Egypt, to a darker brown in southern Egypt.

I don't know if Frank M. Snowden realised that most Africans are just varying shades of dark brown and that the ancient Egyptian civilization was started by the "darker brown" southern Egyptians; the bulk of ancient Egypt's population resided in the South that he conceded were of a "darker brown"; most dynasties came from the "darker brown" Egyptians; the powerful religious elite were from the South -- the "darker brown" people that have the same skin colour as most Africans.

Somebody should have relayed to Frank M. Snowden that since the southern Egyptians were a "darker brown" and since they started the civilization and were the majority... he lost -- the debate would have been over.

I'm adamant that AE reliefs showing jet-black people are ancestors of the Dinka, Nuer and the Nuba and not Kushites.

Frank M. Snowden not only used the true Negro model, he seems to have insisted that since the ancient Egyptians did not have the same skin colour as the people that resembled the Dinka and Nuba on those reliefs, then they couldn't have been black even though most Africans are lighter than the Dinka.


Most white people would immediately concede that the San are black even though they're lighter than the indigenous Upper Egyptians in Luxor, Edfu, Esna, Red Sea coast and Kom Ombo but when it comes to AE mental gymnastics come into play.

There is no need to ever invoke the one drop rule because the other side will have to first demonstrate that the AE were mostly Eurasians instead of being predominantly North-east Africans.

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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 -
^^for some folk "aliens" are more plausible as a source of the AE population
than nearby African cultures..



I think you are on to something. Snowden was a child of the white academic
establishment of that time- a classist, so he subscribed to the
stereotypical constructs of the day. And he wanted to prove his
loyalty no doubt by serving as attack dogs to take on the so-called
"Afrocentrics." Nothing wrong with criticizing various areas where SOME
so-called Afrocentrics" were shaky, but then Snowden himself in turn
has to use some distortions and stereotypical thinking.

Like you say Snowden seems not to realize that Africans can vary in skin color,
but then again he probably did realize it, but has to minimize and downplay
that diversity to maintain his stereotypical construct against which, all else
can be minimized, downplayed or distorted. And like you say with the Upper
or southern Egyptians, that is a well known thing, but he had to skip over and
downplay certain things. Don't get me wrong. Some of his research is interesting
but there are problems as well.

 -
Some try to make out that the "one drop rule" is "old" vanished history. But this
is false. It is very much alive as a popular construct and even appears to have been
applied in court cases in the US, as recently as the late 1980s. (See Jane Doe vs State
oF Lousiana 1984.) We all know the "rule" - if you have "one-drop" you still "black"..



Re the one-drop rule I would say it should not be the FIRST line of argument
on the African character and foundation of AE. However it has its uses. It was often
one of the only things ordinary folks had to argue with before the widespread
dissemination of the hard data we have today on cranial, skeletal, genetic, dental
and cultural foundations of AE. Any debates or arguments should lay down the hammer
and begin with this hard data. One-drop is the SECONDARY line of advance. It is a valid
secondary approach because almost all opponents, distorters and deniers of the African
foundations and character of AE invoke popular cultural stereotypes. How could they
be "really" African if they don't look like Mike Tyson and other such approaches.

 -

We all know this is the "true negro" dodge. But under the "one-drop" rule, even if the "true negro"
"mixed" with someone- his progeny STILL is considered BLACK under popular European
and American cultural race constructs. In addition, the hypocritical double standard
above can be exposed when taking up the one-drop secondary line. To wit:

how come you are all too willing to use the popular "true negro" race construct but
then, hypocritically, you want to skip over the "one drop" side of the coin?
Any "mix" with the "true negro" STILL is considered "black" under the same popular
race constructs. SO how you only want to use one, but not the other?



It is essential that this hypocrisy be exposed - whether one is dealing with right wing
distorters, well-meaning "liberals" or dubious "native" Egyptians who in their haste
to "distance" deyselves from "anything African" seem to conceive of the ancient
peoples as fantastist aliens who just "happen" to "spontaneously" spring up out of the
Nile one day, bearing no relation to any of the surrounding African cultures. Such
hypocrisy must be relentlessly exposed time and time again, especially since deniers
and distorters try to skip over the hard data. As a secondary approach, one-drop is
a valid tool of defense or attack, and locks them in the box, where they can be worked
over from every angle- heavy artillery from the hard data, secondary barrages from
cultural constructs- doesn't really matter- it's all "hammer time."

 -

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the lioness,
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According to the One Drop Rule an ancient Egyptian could be
15/16ths European and 1/16th African
They could be light skinned and have no "true Negro" traits

but they would still be Black.

So if this is classical European anthropology and Mary Lefkowitz believes it and we like this rule, why can't Snowden join us and set aside the true negro concept?

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
According to the One Drop Rule an ancient Egyptian could be
15/16ths European and 1/16th African
They could be light skinned and have no "true Negro" traits

but they would still be Black.

So if this is classical European anthropology and Mary Lefkowitz believes it and we like this rule, why can't Snowden join us and set aside the true negro concept?

There is a reason why you are known as a dumb piece of ****! And it is nice to see your deplorable ass comes out of the woods. According to science you're terribly wrong, as usually.


Melanin Dosage Tests: Ancient Egyptians

 -



Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues

-- A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2 Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"
Materials and Methods



https://www.academia.edu/8742479/Melanin_Dosage_Tests_Ancient_Egyptians_DRAFT_


http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10520290500051146


 -

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Great work Zaharan. It's much appreciated!
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Recent Scholars studying Egypt and Nubia show that the two peoples, while varying, shared
several cultural and material commonalities, undermining older, simplistic, separationist 'racial' theories


QUOTE:
"Any Egyptian evidence in Nubia was seen as an import or as cultural influence, while any
Nubian evidence in Upper Egypt was viewed as the sporadic presence of foreign people within
Egyptian territory. In the last few years, new research on the subject, particularly from a Nubian point of view,
shows that the interaction between the two cultures was much more complex
than previously
thought, affecting the time, space and nature of the interaction (Gatto & Tiraterra 1996;
Gatto 2000, 2003a, 2003b). The Aswan area was probably never a real borderline, at least not
until the New Kingdom. Of particular importance in this perspective is the area between Armant
and Dehmit, south of the First Cataract, as well as the surrounding deserts, and for the availability
of data, more specifically the Western Desert.
The data recently collected and a new interpretation of available information are bringing to light
a stable and long-term interaction between Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia that has to be seen in a very
different perspective. The two regions, and so their cultural entities, are not in antithesis to
one another, but in the Predynastic period are still the expression of the same cultural tradition,
with strong regional variations, particularly in the last part of the 4th millennium BC. Some of them
are clearly connected with the major cultural and political changes of Egypt."


(-- Maria Carmela GATTO (British Museum, London) 2002. "At the Origin of the Egyptian Civilisation:
Reconsidering the Relationship between Egypt and Nubia in the Pre- and Protodynastic Periods."

Conférence internationale / International Conference L'Egypte pré- et protodynastique. Les origines
de l'Etat Predynastic and Early Dynastic Egypt. Origin of the State. Toulouse (France) - 5-8 sept. 2005)


 -

QUOTE:
“the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As
expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture
and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far
outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of
this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of
Kush), except such a s came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the
Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract.

Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into
Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become
Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and
adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)


 -


Many modern Egyptologists now admit clear correlations between
ancient Egyptians and African communities, chiefdoms and states.


"The Egyptian concept of kingship, so akin to African models, seems
very different to that held in the ancient Near East."

"There is a relative abundance of ancient materials relevant to contact
and influence, as well as striking correlations between ancient Egyptian
civilization and the ethnography of recent and current sub-Saharan communities,
chiefdoms and states."

--David O'Connor, Andrew Reid 2007. Ancient Egypt in Africa

Nile Valley Diversity Gallery
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/post/14787

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 -

"I would like to see above all a greater number of researchers — Afro-Americans — young Americans — even whites. Why not? Because it’s the young who are least prejudiced. As a consequence, they are the most capable of making triumph ideas which frighten the older generation.

Also, I think that it will be necessary to put together polyvalent scientific teams, capable of doing in-depth studies, for sure, and that’s what’s important. It bothers me when someone takes me on my word without developing a means of verifying what I say ... We must form a scientific spirit capable of seeing even the weaknesses of our own proofs, of seeing the unfinished side of our work and committing ourselves to completing it. You understand? Therefore we should then have a work which could honestly stand criticism, because what we’ve done would have been placed on a scientific plane."

—Cheikh Anta Diop, Interview with Harun Kofi Wangara (Harold G. Lawrence), 1974.

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^Zarahan, I agree.

It is very important that a new generation picks up where pioneers left. There is a lot more to be discovered and unraveled. People can't thrive off on studies that are 30 years old, and look at them like oh those great scholars.

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Indeed, and the thing is Diop was always big on
evidence and data, Unfortunately some folk forget
this and focus on the the mystical and rhetorical,
with the rhetorical especially being an easy way
out because it requires very little work or study.
There is a place for rhetoric and mysticism to be
sure, but they provide little concrete to confront
the many enemies of a balanced African biohistory,
in both their "soft" or "hard" manifestations. This
is one of the significant divides in the field.

Diop also did not expect that things would be static and
unchanging, forever locked in stone. BUt ever so often you run into
cats who still have not moved beyond Chancellor Williams, for example,
circa 1970- valuable as background to be sure, but the field has moved on.
A good grasp of the factual and evidentiary database is
necessary for progress, and this is critical in expanding knowledge,
as well as critiquing either patronizing liberals, right-wing propagandists,
or the plain i'gnant.

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Akachi
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I would say that the narrative in the African Origins of Civilization follows evidence that Western scholars have simply decided to ignore. This migration narrative is the basis of my thread over on Egyptsearch reloaded. Diop's theme book "The African Origins of Civilization" details many ancient events in a context that Western scholars have feared acknowledging in a brave unapologetic way. This book detailed the migrations of Africans from Kemet/Sudan/the Sahara desert going back to the Natufians (Ricaut 2008) of the end of the ice age and into later European migrations of the Pelasgians and even later migration of Thutmose's armies. This book made the brave assertion of Africans migrating into the Americas prior to the notion being thoroughly explored and validated by Ivan Van Sertima. The very title/claim of the book was something that was not "scholastically" concrete until the discovery of the incense burners in Qustul 5 years after it was published, and Diop's narrative was complete without it. Simply put every claim from the book has been verified through contemporary research.

Chancellor Williams book details an ancient race war between the original melaninated Africans of the upper Nile and the Set type mulattoes of northern Kemet that lead to the formation of Dynastic Kemet under Menes when those mulattoes were defeated and expelled. From a historical viewpoint this reigns true the fact that further down the line a Set worshiping group of mulattoes SUDDENLY appears at the door steps of Kemet begging for entrance known as the Hyksos. The Hyksos would have had to have an earlier Kemetic origin of sorts to come back in worshiping a Kemetic deity. Egyptology does not tackle such issues. They wish to take the racial context out of this segment of history, because coming from such humble origins is not flattering to their egos.

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Agreed in part- many Western scholars want to minimize, deny or distort.
As for Williams, I disagree with his notion of a Race War- light skinnad
on one side and dark-skinnad on the other. That's too simplistic
given that many so-called 'Asiatics" at the time might have been
almost as dark as various Nubians, and some Nubians were just as brown
as any "Asiatic." William's "mulatto" format, rigidly applied in
the Nile Valley is a strained straitjacket based on the 1960s
American race scene.

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Tukuler
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Wms covered the parallel complexion issue and its use as a pretext -- maybe similar to merchants of
today who'll say "Me black, me black."

Wms also commends the 'whites' who went black.

No. There weren't no overt race war.
Not even a conscious clash of races.
Nonetheless through time the darker filter
southward. This is observable across the
whole expanse of Northern Africa. Beydane
are brown skinned, yet their ethnonym
declares 'white' identity. Same social
process laid out in Wms. Except
Beydane say Abu Bakr flat out
expelled blacks from the desert.

The big plus of Destruction is
Chancellor Williams' 'plans' section.
I choose to build on what was left,
not sanctify it. I'll throw out the
bathwater but keep the baby
and the tub too. Lol


Apartheid ended what 35 years ago? And
Jim Crow 50? Political colonialism 50?
Before that? 300 years of oppression.
Yes, it's a hella burden but I can't act
like it didn't happen nor that without
the 1960-70s era struggle I wouldn't
have the tools/skills to post as I do
today.

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True what you say. I have read Williams. His solutions
section is candid and his call for unity against a
common foe is as relevant then as it is now, based on certain
situations prevailing at present. Likewise his blunt exposure
of the open or veiled supremacist agendas of that foe,
whether it be in the history books, or political battlefields.

There are several points that modern data calls into question.
He says for example that Africa's geography made it easier for
various invaders to conquer it, but this is not necessarily so.
Africa's great rivers are unnavigable for large stretches, with many
cliffs, cataracts, sandbars and rapids, unlike the easy transport
routes moving technology, material and knowledge on
many great rivers of Eurasia. It took the steamships
of the 19th century to finally overcome many of these problems.
Likewise Africa's relatively smooth coastline means
a lack of good natural harbors- unlike the massive
number of such harbors in Europe. Such easy transport
factors made conquest of parts of Europe much easier as well as
enabled Europeans to massively borrow and copy technology and
knowledge from outside EUrope. Writing for example was not
invented in Europe, nor the key animal and plant domestications, etc etc.
Europeans benefited massively by importing knowledge, people
and tech from outside.

This is part of why Egypt could never be the hegemon equivalent
of Rome or Greece in Africa. Compare the broad transmission
belt of the MEditerranean, or the easy navigation of so
many of Europe's great rivers, to the chopped up, blocked
Nile as just one example. Rome could move tens of thousands
of troops, grain, weapons, material etc from Syria to Spain at will,
using the Mediterranean, over 2000 miles of easy, straight-shot
water transport. Egypt had no such advantages in Africa-
and aside from the problems with the Nile it was
surrounded by hundreds of miles of inhospitable desert,
which by the way served as a protective barrier.
Africa's Sahara likewise was a barrier in many ways
to easy conquest and slowed down Arab incursions
and imperialism somewhat- though not totally stopped
them. The list can go on.

Nevertheless that is the nature of knowledge. It doesn't
stand still, and those coming after must take up the torch.
And of course Williams had to work with the info he had at
hand, at the time - heavily 1960s, with some early 70s stuff.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Akachi:

The very title/claim of the book was something that was not "scholastically" concrete until the discovery of the incense burners in Qustul 5 years after it was published,

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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:

I choose to build on what was left,
not sanctify it. I'll throw out the
bathwater but keep the baby
and the tub too. Lol

This means retain and build on
what remains valid and factual
while discarding the other stuff.

Who throwd out Copernicus and
Newton 'cos we got astrophysics?

We need to get to them or look
at them (have them under our
belt) to move on and understand
science today.

Same with Wms, Diop, Doc Ben,
Karenga, Madhubuti, van Sertima,
Snowden, Hansberry, Rogers, Osei,
Jackson, Ajayi, P Goldman, et al.

This comes natural for other peoples
not to start from square one each
succeeding generation. They move
forward from an accumulated base
of knowledge with no shame.

For example they been running the
same white man's north and east
Africa game since the Napoleonic
Expedition and refined it with each
new tool/methodology that's come
along since. Interpretation is key.

But we lack the womb to tomb
institution system to ingrain a
weltanschauung. In fact we
tear down what was built
for us to inherit.

We try to build on anti-this or
anti-that never realizing we
must define on the positive.

If ones goal is simply countering
negatives one becomes dependent
on that negative to exist. Remove
that negative and ones whole
reason for being is swept from
under them.


Besides Square Oneing, these
generations never experienced
a liberation struggle and many
imagine the playing field is
level. As if somehow a mere
50 years of 'independent'
Africa, purported equal
rights and a physically half Luo
potus, completely erased or even
healed the 500 year legacy of the
Triangular Trade, colonialism,
genocide, apartheid, Jim Crow,
etc; and the 1500 year weight of
the Hham Mythos.

No. We don't have the luxury to
divorce ourselves from reality.
Our very quality of life is impacted
by the way our history, ethnology,
molecular biology, and so on is
perceived by those matriculating
European and Semitic institutions.

At least give our own a chance
as we try our best to objectively
develop an authentic Africana
of a World Class status without
skewing interpretation toward
self bias.

quote:

Page opening posted by don Cardova :

We must form a scientific spirit capable of seeing even the weaknesses of our own proofs, of seeing the unfinished side of our work and committing ourselves to completing it. You understand? Therefore we should then have a work which could honestly stand criticism, because what we’ve done would have been placed on a scientific plane."

—Cheikh Anta Diop, Interview with Harun Kofi Wangara (Harold G. Lawrence), 1974

.

PS
just imagine form schools where the tested and best
from our past scholars are taught, learned, and
launched from. Wow! To enter college with that
and the brightest and best of all the ES opinions
no matter from who? Already multidisciplinary
and multi ethnic minded.

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Indeed. I think Keita was kinda hinting at what Diop said about
polyvalent teams in his article from the Cobb Research Center.

http://www.cobbresearchlab.com/issue-1/2015/1/26/history-and-genetics-in-africa-a-need-for-better-cooperation-between-the-teams

COurse there is only so much guys like us on the web can do.
But if there is cooperation with the cats coming along in
universities, together with the old heads, such teams
can be built. A loose network structure can work- no need for
monolithic agreement on all points. There is plenty of room
for disagreements, but a rough "tactical cooperation" can be
put in place that expands the field. That cooperation can also
also extend to open-minded white specialists/enthusiasts in the field of which
we've seen a few such as Gatto and some others. Even Yurco at
one point, was talking about a rough accommodation with Asante.

Genuine folk can work their different angles and venues, yet exhibit
a generous spirit not automatically geared to tearing one another
down. Simple examples- acknowledging points of agreement with someone,
giving people credit for a particular piece of work or effort,
sharing info, etc etc. None of this requires total agreement. In fact, given
the diversity of perspectives, disagreement is to be expected.

COurse there are several obstacles to good cooperation-
it may never come to pass- and the same folk in the field for years
will not be around forever.


(1) Hostile Eurocentrics, combining deception and
stealth with outright opposition- these include
various racists or "hereditarian" types, and associated troll
and diversionary tactics we have seen so often.

(2) Various "Afro-enthusiasts" who don't do much research,
but are quick to jump on "consciousness" or mystic type bandwagons,
even as they flood the zone with inaccurate info or untenable claims.
A mystic angle is its own creature- the problem is when some folk
insist that their mystic claim is the only "true" scholarship or research,
an flood the zone accordingly.

(3) Various patronizing, condescending and "establishment"
types from academia- who while talking a good game bout science and
objectivity have their own set of slippery agendas. They too
can run "zone flood" games, that will need teams to deconstruct.

(4) Various factional leaders afflicted with the HNIC syndrome,
or who see their particular ideology or approach as the only "true" way.


COurse, these teams could also be built in academia to some
extent becoming a mostly college student thing but there is a massive
base out there not in college.

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Tukler said:
No. We don't have the luxury to
divorce ourselves from reality.
Our very quality of life is impacted
by the way our history, ethnology,
molecular biology, and so on is
perceived by those matriculating
European and Semitic institutions.

At least give our own a chance
as we try our best to objectively
develop an authentic Africana
of a World Class status without
skewing interpretation toward
self bias.


And to realize your vision, there needs to ne more moderation of
the forums. Why do assorted racists like "Real tawk" get a free hand,
when the brothers, who are way less offensive and are not hurling
epithets left and right, are banned from Forum Biodiversity,
and other such? We are not even taking steps to at
least ensure a minimum standard in our own forums.
Your mailbox is usually full. Are you moderating at all?
--------------------------------------------------------

Real tawk
Member
Member # 20324
Ish Gabor
posted 28 May, 2017 08:22 AM ASSHOLE, Neanderthal descends from homoeretus of Europe and Asia. Fvck off, n1gger.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009688

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Oshun
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Oh he's calling people THAT now? He ain't even tryin to pretend he's black no more LOL.
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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
Tukler said:
No. We don't have the luxury to
divorce ourselves from reality.
Our very quality of life is impacted
by the way our history, ethnology,
molecular biology, and so on is
perceived by those matriculating
European and Semitic institutions.

At least give our own a chance
as we try our best to objectively
develop an authentic Africana
of a World Class status without
skewing interpretation toward
self bias.


And to realize your vision, there needs to ne more moderation of
the forums. Why do assorted racists like "Real tawk" get a free hand,
when the brothers, who are way less offensive and are not hurling
epithets left and right, are banned from Forum Biodiversity,
and other such? We are not even taking steps to at
least ensure a minimum standard in our own forums.
Your mailbox is usually full. Are you moderating at all?
--------------------------------------------------------

Real tawk
Member
Member # 20324
Ish Gabor
posted 28 May, 2017 08:22 AM ASSHOLE, Neanderthal descends from homoeretus of Europe and Asia. Fvck off, n1gger.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009688

Where ya been? Ain'tcha seen
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009270
Ain't try n fixin what I don't own.

I nwanna hear boudid.

For like 5 yrs I poured my $$$ into TNV.
A party I threw for our target demographic.
Shee-it. Not even crickets.

ESR's up and running with all you want
already in place. Where are the academics
collegians hi-schoolers informed amateurs?

Since the end of the Liberation Struggle
interest in 'hard' Africana has damned
near died.


In this 21st century Information Struggle
we don't even need cadres anymore. We
each are an Army of 1. No matter wor'
'bout the anti. Just keep pumping
the pro.


The intelligent will have their 'ear to the wise'
weed whacking words of woo out da damn way.
Is it a waste of their time chasing ghosts and
lingering fatalities unless it brings new info to
light (likes being done via the Tin Man). Outdo
the Geno-hamiticists. Challenge each other so
as to tighten up that backstroke till weeze all a
swimming like Flipper.

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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 -

"The early Askumites built in stone. They erected massive carved monoliths over the graves of their leaders (one was 33 meters long and weighed over 700 tonnes, arguably the largest single piece of worked stone ever hewn."
--John Reader, 1998. Africa: The Biography of the continent. pg 208).

"Perhaps the best -known symbols of the Aksumites' particular ideas and style are the great carved monoliths, some of which still stand, erected to commemorate their dead rulers; they also record the considerable skill of the Aksumite quarrymen, engineers, and stone-carvers, being in some cases among the largest single stones ever employed in ancient times."
--Stuart Munro-Hay 1991. Askum: An African Civilisation of Late Antiquity


“The exquisitely carved monolithic stelae dating from the 3rd and 4th centuries AD are unique masterpieces of human creative genius. “ UNESCO World Heritage citation 1980


 -

 -


"an intricate network of over 16,000 kilometers of banks and ditches (iya) enclosed a 4000 kilometer cluster of community lands- a vast legacy on earth.. The earthworks run four to five times longer than the Great Wall of China, and involve moving more material than the Great Pyramid of Cheops."
--PJ Darling, A Legacy in Earth- Ancient Benin and Ishan, Southern Nigeria in: Historical Archaeology in Nigeria, 1998. ed k. Weaver. p143

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Punos_Rey
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Picture spam bombs will be removed on sight. Keep it on topic.
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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2017 study finds sub-Saharan influence around Roman period. Ancient samples drawn from later period
of Dynastic Egypt -taken from the farther north- downplaying the south, and excluding nearby Nubia & Sudan


 -
Ancient samples from Abusir, near Faiyum in the north


Samples from Late period-of Egypt- which have more foreign influence quote:

“According to the radiocarbon dates .. the samples can be grouped into three time periods:
Pre-Ptolemaic (New Kingdom, Third Intermediate Period and Late Period), Ptolemaic and Roman Period."


Sampling from the far north- quote:
Written sources indicate that by the third century BCE Abusir el-Meleq was at the centre of a wider region that comprised the northern part of the Herakleopolites province, and had close ties with the Fayum.. We aim to study changes and continuities in the genetic makeup of the ancient inhabitants of the Abusir el-Meleq community .. since all sampled remains derive from this community in Middle Egypt and have been radiocarbon dated to the late New Kingdom to the Roman Period..”


Limitations of study candidly admitted by authors - Quote:

“However, we note that all our genetic data were obtained from a single site in Middle Egypt and may not be representative for all of ancient Egypt. It is possible that populations in the south of Egypt were more closely related to those of Nubia and had a higher sub-Saharan genetic component, in which case the argument for an influx of sub-Saharan ancestries after the Roman Period might only be partially valid and have to be nuanced. Throughout Pharaonic history there was intense interaction between Egypt and Nubia, ranging from trade to conquest and colonialism, and there is compelling evidence for ethnic complexity within households with Egyptian men marrying Nubian women and vice versa 51,52,53. Clearly, more genetic studies on ancient human remains from southern Egypt and Sudan are needed before apodictic statements can be made."
--Schuenemann 2016 Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods. NatComm, 8:15694

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Andromeda2025
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The earliest burials known in the Nile Valley are those at Nazlet Khater and
Kubbaniya, mentioned above. A group of three slightly younger burials was found at
Deir el-Fakhuri, near Esna. All of these skeletons are of fully modern Homo sapiens
sapiens, but they were very robust, with short wide faces and pronounced alveolar
prognathism. They have been compared with a type known as Mechtoid (from the site of
Mechta el-Arbi), which are found in Late Paleolithic sites throughout North Africa, and
particularly in the Maghreb.


In the Nile Valley there are three Late Paleolithic graveyards, all associated with
Qadan assemblages: Jebel Sahaba, a few kilometers north of Wadi Haifa on the east bank
of the Nile, with 59 burials; Site 6-B-36, on the west bank almost opposite Wadi Haifa,
with 39 burials; and Wadi Tushka, north of Abu Simbel in southern Egypt, with 19
burials. The radiocarbon dates range between 14,000 and 13,000 BP. All of the skeletons
are Mechtoid, indicating a long and unbroken history for this type in the Nile Valley.


North of the el-Badari district, no Predynastic sites are known for over 300km.
Archaeological evidence in the Fayum of both Nagada and Ma'adi culture wares now
seems to suggest that this region was where peoples of the Predynastic cultures of Upper
and Lower Egypt first came into contact. The best known Predynastic site in the Fayum
region is the small cemetery at Gerza, from which the term Gerzean (Nagada II) is
derived. Excavated by Petrie, this cemetery contained 288 burials with (Upper Egyptian)
ceramics which are typically Nagada II. A later Predynastic cemetery with several
hundred burials, excavated by Georg Moller, is located at Abusir el-Meleq, about 10km
west of the present Nile. Ma'adi culture ceramics are found at the cemetery of es-Saff on
the east bank opposite Gerza, and a site near Qasr Qarun in the southwestern region of
the Fayum, excavated by Caton Thompson and E.W.Gardner in the 1930s.


Archaeological evidence clearly demonstrates the existence of two different material
cultures with different belief systems in Egypt in the fourth millennium BC: the Nagada
culture of Upper Egypt and the Ma'adi culture of Lower Egypt. Evidence in Lower Egypt
consists mainly of settlements with very simple burials, in contrast to Upper Egypt,
where cemeteries with elaborate burials are found. The rich grave goods in several major
cemeteries in Upper Egypt represent the acquired wealth of higher social strata, and these
cemeteries were probably associated with centers of craft production. Trade and
exchange of finished goods and luxury materials from the Eastern and Western Deserts
and Nubia would also have taken place in such centers. In Lower Egypt, however, while
excavated settlements permit a broader reconstruction of the prehistoric economy, there is
little evidence for any great socioeconomic complexity.


State formation

Archaeological evidence points to the origins of the state which emerged by the 1st
Dynasty in the Nagada culture of Upper Egypt, where grave types, pottery and artifacts
demonstrate an evolution of form from the Predynastic to the 1st Dynasty. This cannot be
demonstrated for the material culture of Lower Egypt, which was eventually displaced by
that originating in Upper Egypt.

By circa 3050 BC the Early Dynastic state had emerged in Egypt. One result of the
expansion of Nagada culture throughout northern Egypt would have been a greatly
elaborated (state) administration, and by the beginning of the 1st Dynasty this was
managed in part by the invention of writing, used on sealings and tags affixed to state
goods. The early Egyptian state was a centrally controlled polity ruled by a (god-)king
from the newly founded capital of Memphis in the north, near Saqqara. What is truly
unique about the early state in Egypt is the integration of rule over an extensive
geographic region. There was undoubtedly heightened commercial contact with
southwest Asia in the late fourth millennium BC, but the Early Dynastic state in Egypt
was unique and indigenous in character.

https://archive.org/stream/EncyclopediaOfTheArchaeologyOfAncientEgypt/EncyclopediaOfTheArchaeologyOfAncientEgypt_djvu.txt

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Ish Gebor
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^ Yep, the origin is Central Sudan, a tropical African people. And magically white controlled sources claim the people were cold adapted Central Europeans.
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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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We already have ancient DNA results from Kush and the Tasian site of Kadruka (precusor to Badarian/Naqada):


 -
From Genetic Patterns of Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Variation, with Implications to the Peopling of the Sudan (Hassan 2009)

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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
^ Yep, the origin is Central Sudan, a tropical African people. And magically white controlled sources claim the people were cold adapted Central Europeans.

lol
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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
^ Yep, the origin is Central Sudan, a tropical African people. And magically white controlled sources claim the people were cold adapted Central Europeans.

lol
Eurocentric supporters never explained where all these African populations where to begin with.
Posts: 18902 | From: pAsidaw SIGILLUM SECRETUM | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Perchance spontaneously when the Celestials landed
to... well Marvel fans would know.. [Smile]


-------------------------------------------------------------

But one clue, anyhow...


"Tracing the paths of modern humans from Africa

"In the 1980s, genetic and fossil evidence began
to call attention to Africa’s preeminence in the
origins of modern human populations (1), but this
evidence could be interpreted in two fundamentally
different ways (2). Was Africa’s role greater than
other continents because it always harbored a larger
human population (size) or because modern humans
arose in Africa first and subsequently expanded
their range across the world (time)? In the 2000s,
improvements in DNA sequencing technology and
genetic sampling of more present day human groups
made it possible to accurately characterize the
genetic diversity of groups from different regions
of the world, and it became clear that within-
group genetic diversity decreased predictably with
increased geographic distance from sub-Saharan Africa (3, 4).

Subsequently, similar, albeit weaker, relationships
were found between within-group variation in aspects
of skeletal morphology (cranial, dental, and pelvic
measurements) and distance from sub-Saharan Africa
(5⇓⇓–8)."

--Weaver 2014-Tracing the paths of modern humans from Africa-PNAS
v111-n20,7170-7171

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Elite Diasporan
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Welcome back Zaharan. [Smile]
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova
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Thanks.

Some info from Chris Stringer, on why multiregionalism
is still somewhat weak despite recent evidence of Neanderhal/archaic admix.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169534714000470

QUOTE:

"RAO is still the most appropriate model

The big picture is that we are predominantly of recent African origin, and RAO is not just about the sources of our shared modern morphology and most of our genes; it is also about the genesis of our shared patterns of behaviour. Inferred behavioural gaps between Neanderthals and modern humans have certainly narrowed from recent research, but in my view they have not disappeared. I think that the pre-eminence of Africa in the story of modern human origins was primarily a question of its larger geographic and human population size, which gave greater opportunities for morphological and behavioural variations, and for innovations to develop and be conserved, rather than the result of a special evolutionary pathway. By contrast, genomic data suggest that the lineages of the Neanderthals and Denisovans had much greater demographic attrition [25], perhaps related to the challenges posed by the unstable climates of Eurasia, and this might well have inhibited their cultural as well as physical evolution [6].

‘Modernity’ was not a package that had a single African origin in one time, place, and population, but was a composite whose elements appeared, and sometimes disappeared, at different times and places and then coalesced to assume the form we see in extant humans [6]. However, during the past 400 000 years, most of that assembly took place in Africa, which is why a recent African origin still represents the predominant (but not exclusive) mode of evolution for H. sapiens. Rather than saying ‘we are all multiregionalists trying to explain the out-of-Africa pattern’ [1], it would be more appropriate to say ‘we are all out-of-Africanists who accept some multiregional contributions’."

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