posted
I wanted to post some things from a book that I'm currently reading. Seems like we could all benefit.
I only listed a few things, but I can certainly post more for those who are interested.
quote: The prophet Mohammed, salallahu alayhi wassalam repeatedly told his sahabah of the effect a good attitude would have in forming an Islamic personality and in raising a person's status in the sight of Allah... The prophet, salallahu alayhi wassalam told them, "Among the best of you are those who have the best attitude towards others"
quote: "The most beloved to me and the closest to me on the Day of Resurrection will be those of you who have the best attitudes. And the most hateful to me and the furthest from me on the Day of Resurrection will be the prattlers and boasters and al-mutafayhiqoon." The sahabah said, "O Messenger of Allah, we understand who the prattlers and boasters are, but who are al-mutafayhiqoon?" He said, "The proud and arrogant."
*Tirmidhi, 3/249, in Abwaab al-Birr, hadith no 70.
quote: "Nothing will weigh more heavily in the balance of the believing servant on the Day of Resurrection than a good attitude towards others. Verily Allah hates those who utter vile words and obscene speech."
*Tirmidhi 3/244, in Abwaab al-Birr, baab husn al-khulq.
quote: "No greater deed will be placed in the balance than a good attitude towards others. A good attitude towards others will bring a person up to the level of fasting and prayer."
*Tirmidhi, 3/245, Abwaab al-Birr was-Silah, 61.
quote: "O' Abu Dharr, shall I not tell you of two qualities which are easy to attain but which will weigh more heavily in the balance?" He said, "Of course, O' Messenger of Allah." He said, "You should have a good attitude towards others and remain silent for lengthy periods. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, nothing that people have ever attained is better than these two."
*Abu Ya'la and Tabaraani: Al-Awsat; the men of Abu Ya'la are thiqaat. See majma' az-Zawaa 'id, 8/22
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I wanted to post some things from a book that I'm currently reading. Seems like we could all benefit.
Thank you for the lovely words.
In the 4 months that I have been here, it happened on a fairly regular basis that someone gets fed up with the tone of the forum, and posts a "please behave" message in one form or another. Having observed the dynamics of the forum, I would classify those who cause the discord into two categories:
1. Deliberate Saboteurs: Their agenda is slander and discord. If things become civilized and go in a direction against their agenda, they work harder to get it back to slander and discord.
Solution: Ignore their posts. Provocative as they may be, do not respond at all. There is simply no other way. "Convincing" them is a lost cause. They are already convinced. Same Internet rule applies here: Don't feed the troll.
2. Thrill Seekers: They find exchanging insults more exciting than exchanging ideas. The personal like or dislike they have shapes who they respond to and how. Who wrote a post trumps what is in the post. At times, they will post something for the sole purpose of "trapping their enemies."
Solution: I can only remind those who are religious to look at what they do and realize that just because we are on the Internet with alias names does not mean that we are not accountable to God for what we say. This is not a game. The "fun" you are having here can be very expensive when it matters. If you are verbally attacked, just ignore it or respond "May God forgive you" and move on.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote: "The most beloved to me and the closest to me on the Day of Resurrection will be those of you who have the best attitudes. And the most hateful to me and the furthest from me on the Day of Resurrection will be the prattlers and boasters and al-mutafayhiqoon." The sahabah said, "O Messenger of Allah, we understand who the prattlers and boasters are, but who are al-mutafayhiqoon?" He said, "The proud and arrogant."
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I wanted to post some things from a book that I'm currently reading. Seems like we could all benefit.
Thank you for the lovely words.
In the 4 months that I have been here, it happened on a fairly regular basis that someone gets fed up with the tone of the forum, and posts a "please behave" message in one form or another. Having observed the dynamics of the forum, I would classify those who cause the discord into two categories:
1. Deliberate Saboteurs: Their agenda is slander and discord. If things become civilized and go in a direction against their agenda, they work harder to get it back to slander and discord.
Solution: Ignore their posts. Provocative as they may be, do not respond at all. There is simply no other way. "Convincing" them is a lost cause. They are already convinced. Same Internet rule applies here: Don't feed the troll.
2. Thrill Seekers: They find exchanging insults more exciting than exchanging ideas. The personal like or dislike they have shapes who they respond to and how. Who wrote a post trumps what is in the post. At times, they will post something for the sole purpose of "trapping their enemies."
Solution: I can only remind those who are religious to look at what they do and realize that just because we are on the Internet with alias names does not mean that we are not accountable to God for what we say. This is not a game. The "fun" you are having here can be very expensive when it matters. If you are verbally attacked, just ignore it or respond "May God forgive you" and move on.
And I would add, even those that are not Religious could maybe remember that insulting, offending, attacking, using foul language, slander other religions on a regular basis 'anywhere' forum or not, does indeed reflect very bad intentions and an ill mind. Maybe those - Religious or not - that keep up with the above, should seek some therapy for their own sake, as it must be extremely tiring to always project 'hate' I believe.
Posts: 919 | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
31:18 You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. God does not like the arrogant showoffs.
16:125 Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.
41:34 Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend.
49:11 O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote: 49:11 O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.
Thanks for reminding us. I guess sometimes the religion section can be good. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Ladies you need to actually name and call members out if you are serious. The culprits should be called out because this beating around the bush does nothing at all. If you truly identify some members as being detrimental to the general well being of this forum then please publicly state who you deem is the culprit.
This ambiguously vague stance is worthless. Please be brave enough to state your opinions. If you sincerely want to send a message then a vague one is not the way to go about it.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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I wanted to post some things from a book that I'm currently reading. Seems like we could all benefit.
This wasn't about calling anyone in particular out. Just a general reminder to us all.
It is genuinely nice of you - but if members here are sincere and you certainly can amass a valid and strong enough voice to make a difference. Then please exercise it.
Such as is - is the equivalent of a non-binding resolution. The members in this thread can make a difference and they should.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Exiled, Darlin' What purpose or what could possibly be gained by naming names or calling them out? Members that are purposely starting fights, stating their opinions in an obnoxious way, or nitpicking each other to death, are quite aware of what they are doing, and in my opinion, they are not worth my breath or my time to worry about. They are obviously people that have an agenda, or are very unhappy in their own personal lives, or are very mistaken in their belief system. What possible good will it do to go after them. They are to be pitied, dont ya think? Imagine all the time and effort that it takes to go to all that trouble to cut and paste their various crappy things, or try to substantiate their various "proofs" to try and get someone on their side. I am sure that there are quite a few people that could come back at them quoting the Quran or the Bible at them (myself included), but, like me -they just shake their head at the screen and move on. I have better things to do with my life, than bother answering every stupid thing that I come across online. Sure - it bothers me when Islam gets misquoted by misguided people, and it also bothers me when the Christian side get attacked. I found out a while ago that you cannot force your ideas on religion on anyone. I wish that the whole world could see their religion in the peaceful way that it was intended to be, but God has His reasons, and he created us all differently, and I would just be banging my head against the wall to try and go against that.
what do you think? Is it REALLY worth it? Would I REALLY be able to change ANYONE's mind?
I can tell that you really REALLY care, and I worry that its eating away at your heart.
Breathe. Relax. its really not worth it. Use your delete key, and laugh at their foolishness.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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Arabs and Muslims are tainted left and right by regular members on ES and then these same people who belittle Muslims and Arabs are having a jolly good time with other members – like if their hate for Muslims and Arabs just disappeared. I will use Tiger Lilly as a perfect example so maybe you can feel what I feel:
What if I said : ‘those people’ – ‘are intolerant’ – ‘typical white person mentality’
عدالة This is what I want jean.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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I understand where you are coming from. Let me explain why I suggested the approach that I did. One of my principles in life is to act for a purpose not for a reason. The distinction is that a reason is what happened before you act, while a purpose is what will happen after you act.
What you are suggesting would serve a purpose if there were moderator action. There isn't. That's the reality of this forum. Absent that, the only effective way to make the forum better is to ignore the garbage and focus on the constructive discussions. The rule "Don't feed the troll" does work if people stick to it.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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I agree with everyone it's so much easier to be nice, kind, forgiving and all that individually speaking ...
we all eventually come to this point at certain times, however this message board hasn't been maintained for just too long so hardly can you achieve that in already created chaos.
On the message board as it is now, solution is not to wait passively until 'something happens'.
Well, look how many months and days nothing changed? When you ignore issues, you pretty much "accept" status quo.
On most message boards spam is not wanted and it's removed immediately. This message board is abandoned so members have a choice to either a) leave or b) ignore or c) fight the issues ( not necessarily spam )
Many chose option a. Many chose option b. Some chose option c.
Both a) and b) did not work.
So I believe option c) is the only way.
After the message board is cleaned up and balance created, members could perhaps set a standard for debate and keep the balance of the board creating healthy climate for everyone interested.
It's possible! Also the good thing is that people want to talk about it.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I agree with everyone it's so much easier to be nice, kind, forgiving and all that individually speaking ...
we all eventually come to this point at certain times, however this message board hasn't been maintained for just too long so hardly can you achieve that in already created chaos.
On the message board as it is now, solution is not to wait passively until 'something happens'.
Well, look how many months and days nothing changed? When you ignore issues, you pretty much "accept" status quo.
On most message boards spam is not wanted and it's removed immediately. This message board is abandoned so members have a choice to either a) leave or b) ignore or c) fight the issues ( not necessarily spam )
Many chose option a. Many chose option b. Some chose option c.
Both a) and b) did not work.
So I believe option c) is the only way.
After the message board is cleaned up and balance created, members could perhaps set a standard for debate and keep the balance of the board creating healthy climate for everyone interested.
It's possible! Also the good thing is that people want to talk about it.
Resistance is futile.
Posts: 6335 | From: Straight to my heart. | Registered: Sep 2007
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You again! So since you are following me all over the egyptsearch.com aren't you going to help this place be a better place?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: You again! So since you are following me all over the egyptsearch.com aren't you going to help this place be a better place?
It's called ES, if it wasn't it would be wwww.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi
Anywayz, I follow you around because you are so hilarious. Posts: 6335 | From: Straight to my heart. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Loved One what is the name of this book, anyways. sounds like something I might like to read too.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Hello Jean Bean The name of the book is The Ideal Muslimah by Muhammad Ali Al-Hashimi. A friend of mine bought it for me while she was in Pakistan but I'm sure you could probably find it in Egypt or on Amazon. Great book, I'm really really loving it. I'll probably go back and re-read it a little slower after I finish it the first time.
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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Personally, I don't like it at all. It's the kind of "Islamic literature" I find extremely offputting (and degrading). Too many *musts* and stuff like "women must be obedient to the husband" and "he has more rights over her" etc.
For example the claim that a woman gains entry to paradise through her husband is un-Islamic and slightly blasphemic imho. And there are many claims like that in the text: The Muslim woman does not forget that her obedience to her husband is one of the things that may lead her to Paradise, as the Prophet (PBUH) said:
"If a woman prays her five daily prayers, fasts her month (of Ramadan), obeys her husband and guards her chastity, then it will be said to her: `Enter Paradise by whichever of its gates you wish.'"14 Umm Salamah (May Allah be pleased with her) said: "The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: `Any woman who dies, and her husband is pleased with her, will enter Paradise.'"
The true Muslim woman knows that Islam, which has multiplied her reward for obeying her husband and made it a means of her admittance to Paradise, has also warned every woman who deviates from the path of marital obedience and neglects to take care of her husband, that she will be guilty of sin, and will incur the wrath and curses of the angels.
Bukhari and Muslim report from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (PBUH) said:
"If a man calls his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he goes to sleep angry with her, the angels will curse her until the morning."
posted
Well Dalia, I guess it all depends on how you interpret things. I don't find taking care of my husband in the proper Islamic manner to be a chore or "degrading". I love him and am happy to please him in whatever way I can. I would suggest that if you have problems with the things that you quoted, that they are simply that, "your" problems. Best wishes in sorting that out.
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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Loved One I read all through the link that Dalia posted and although I had issues with some of the things in there for the mostpart it was a wonderful reading and I learned a lot from it.
I have to say, the things that I had issues with were because of the way I was brought up. There is so much that we just don't know on this earth and I believe that all will be revealed when it is time so although I may trudge through some of the things in there I do it for the sake of Allah. I am sooooo trudging at times and falter many times but I am definitely trying to plough through. Thanks for this thread I think any forum could take these suggestions.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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You read the whole book in a day? It's 522 pages!! Or do you just mean that you looked through the chapter titles? Anyways, we all falter, none of us is perfect.
But it's great that you still keep trying regardless. That's really important, not to give up. Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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Noooo!!! lol I have known about that link for a long time! I think I have a link to it on my blog. I didn't just see it here. I have that site bookmarked and go to it when I need to look up various sunnah.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I would suggest that if you have problems with the things that you quoted, that they are simply that, "your" problems. Best wishes in sorting that out.
I find it strange and sad that you feel the need to personally attack me, especially after you were the one who started this thread which should remind us to deal respectfully with others, even if we disagree with them.
I gave the link because I happened to know where it was, so everyone is free to read and form an opinion for themselves. I don't think there is anything wrong with me giving my personal opinion at the same time. Just like you, I have read the book. And I happen to have a different opinion about it than you. So what? I did not say you are having personal issues or try to insult you because you happen to like it.
I have said I feel offended by some things in the text and I regard some of them as un-Islamic. Usually, whenever I criticize something, I give reference as well as reasons why; so everyone can see where my opinion is coming from and can agree or disagree. However, getting personal instead usually makes any kind of serious exchange difficult.
You are correct, some things in this text *I* have a problem with, because *I* have never in my life been made to think or feel that there is anything I could not do or that I should be treated in a different way because I am a woman; I have never been made to feel I need to be obedient to a man and "put his wishes and pleasures before my own", simply because he is a man; the concept of this simply seems bizarre and ridiculous to me. It has never occurred to me that God wants another person to control me or that my main goal in life should be a mother and wife, otherwise I should be lacking in fulfilling a religious duty.
I also believe that I have a right to my body and my emotions; so the concept that I should be obliged to have sex with someone because this person supposedly has a greater right over my body than myself is likewise bizarre to me -- and very offending. The idea of a man forcing himself on me when I am not in the mood (for whatever reason!!!) is highly repulsive and disgusting. If you find that normal and non-objectionable, fine. But claiming this is a part of religion is a slap in the face of all women in this world who are suffering from marital rape and can't go to court because they happen to be living in a country where the laws give her husband the right to have sex with her anytime he wishes, because people like the author of that book claim that's God's command.
Again, the concept of marital rape in Islam and whether the husband has the right to force his wife to have sex has been discussed on here countless times. And if you take a look at those threads you might see that it's not only *me* who has a problem with this concept. I'd say any woman with a healthy sense of self-worth would find this appalling.
So does this mean I need "sorting out" because I don't comply with some mens' personal views on how the ideal woman or the ideal Muslima or the ideal daughter / mother / wife / sister should be? I don't think so. And it's a bit of a vain argument anyway because I know there are many people in this world who happen to share my point of view.
Also there are enough men -- Muslim and non-Muslim -- who don't want their wife to be a slave who feels "that a woman was barely qualified to wipe the dust from her husband's feet with her face" and that she has to be obedient all the time and should somehow be inferior to him. Alhamdullilah!
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I don't find taking care of my husband in the proper Islamic manner to be a chore or "degrading". I love him and am happy to please him in whatever way I can.
I don't find it in any way degrading to take care of your loved ones, quite the opposite! But there's a big difference between lovingly caring for someone and the relationship that I see described in some parts of this book. Love, care and respect are things that need to reciprocal, they can't grow properly in a relationship where one partner is dominating the other and / or given more rights.
If you want to be submissive to your husband, that is your choice alone. But claiming, for example, that a woman has to have sex with her husband whenever he wishes, regardless of her personal emotions, trying to make her feel guilty if she refuses, telling her she is committing a grave sin and God will be angry at her, that's a diferent matter altogether. Yes, I think it's very un-Islamic, and also it's simply un-humane.
The Qur'an is pretty clear on those things and on the relationship between husband and wife, which is described in beautiful terms in some verses. It does not say women are lesser than men or anything to that extent, but the author of said text does. He claims to be speaking in God's name, but it's clear that he is presenting his personal opinion on many things rather than divine rules.
For example he keeps stressing that household and children are the woman's prime responsibility and the most important thing for her. The text claims that the prophet's wives are a good example to follow. But there are many ahadeeth telling us that the prophet mended his own clothes, helped his wives in the household as much as he could, loved taking care of his kids etc. Now why are those not given the same importance and mentioning here?
Most of us know that according to the Qur'an every human being is being judged for their own deeds and intentions and that that nobody bears responsibility for another person. Yet here we read that the husband is some kind of intermediate between woman and God, we are told that through HIM she gets to paradise or not.
This is a very debatable and strange thing to say. You could have addressed this very valid point of mine and maybe explained your point of view on this issue. Instead you avoid direct conversation by insinuating there must either be something wrong with me personally or with my understanding of Islamic sources.
What I was and am addressing is what I percieve as a very dishonest way of presenting things ... too many subjective things are being presented as *truth*, while in fact the choice and selection of material used to make particular points is highly subjective.
It would be more beneficial if you could just address the points I made if you disagree with them, rather than trying to made snide remarks. I remember you've done that before when I explained that and why I don't accept authority for authority's sake. I don't understand what's so offensive about this, but for some reason it seems to bother you. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: I have said I feel offended by some things in the text and I regard some of them as un-Islamic." .... "For example he keeps stressing that household and children are the woman's prime responsibility and the most important thing for her."
How dare he distort Islam like that!!! Real Islam teaches feminism. Some people just don't get it. Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
is there no book based on Islamic text about 'The Ideal Muslim Husband'?? or are they all deemed as perfect because they are men?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: is there no book based on Islamic text about 'The Ideal Muslim Husband'?? or are they all deemed as perfect because they are men?
I remember we discussed those "how to treat your wife" and "how to treat your husband" texts a while ago. Didn't it say the husband should always speak with his wife "slowly and clearly until she understands", and he should "teach" her about Islam and make sure she leaves the house "properly clothed" etc.?
posted
• Avoid that your husband observes you in dirty clothes or rough shape.
Too late.
I dont remember seeing this before Dalia, its funny
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Personally, I don't like it at all. It's the kind of "Islamic literature" I find extremely offputting (and degrading). Too many *musts* and stuff like "women must be obedient to the husband" and "he has more rights over her" etc.
For example the claim that a woman gains entry to paradise through her husband is un-Islamic and slightly blasphemic imho. And there are many claims like that in the text: The Muslim woman does not forget that her obedience to her husband is one of the things that may lead her to Paradise, as the Prophet (PBUH) said:
"If a woman prays her five daily prayers, fasts her month (of Ramadan), obeys her husband and guards her chastity, then it will be said to her: `Enter Paradise by whichever of its gates you wish.'"14 Umm Salamah (May Allah be pleased with her) said: "The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: `Any woman who dies, and her husband is pleased with her, will enter Paradise.'"
The true Muslim woman knows that Islam, which has multiplied her reward for obeying her husband and made it a means of her admittance to Paradise, has also warned every woman who deviates from the path of marital obedience and neglects to take care of her husband, that she will be guilty of sin, and will incur the wrath and curses of the angels.
Bukhari and Muslim report from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (PBUH) said:
"If a man calls his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he goes to sleep angry with her, the angels will curse her until the morning."
so why is it i heard that islam respects women? everything i read here does nothing but disrespect women Posts: 82 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Let's not ruin the point of the topic which is how we treat each other. I believe that Loved One simply tried to communicate with Muslim ladies who feel like her, and everyone took it in their own way.
I understood this topic as a message to members of how to treat each other, so I replied in that manner like a few others.
Loved One was refering to "good attitude", it's simply a matter of how man and woman learn to respect each other ( to be nice, kind, to think before you say something, to wait, to listen, to hear, to be patient...) that can benefit everyone.
For some people you could, you would, you should go extra mile, and for some you don't. It's simply between man and woman and how they relate to each other.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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oh yeah...If I was expected to look loverly everytime the hubby came home, I woulda gotten a divorce on the first week or so. I don't dress up around the house, and neither does he. Both are currently in sweats, sox and slippers. We ain't gorgeous, but we is warm !
And I am a person that leans more towards the "equal" thing. He gets up first in the morning and makes the coffee, and I make coffee for us at night. He does stuff around the house, and I am NOT the bestest of housekeepers - but he doesn't care, and neither do I. When the dust gets bad -we both attack it. I think I do more of the housekeeping, but he does more of the grocery shopping, takes care of the car, takes stuff to the ironing guy. I know that he likes to watch more football or news than I do - so that is my computer time. Its more 50/50 in my house
And I am of the belief that I, alone, am answerable to God for my actions, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with my hubby. Unless I was a totally rotten person to him - then I would be answerable to God, just like if I was rotten to someone else.
Posts: 1103 | From: 6th of October | Registered: Jun 2007
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We're a bit like that too Jean. He will cook if I dont want to or if he wants to anyway, he likes to cook Alhamdulillah, then leaves the kitchen for me to clean up!
Housework is same, either we both have a go or I do it when he's out of the way or he will do it if i'm out.
If he's in 'that' mood, he will sometimes go through the wardrobe and present me with what he wants me wearing but we know marriage is a two way thing and if im happy then hes happy Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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You know what drives me nuts – the fridge. That is something that I have to do by myself. Like the saying goes ‘if you want it done – do it yourself’.
The fridge is rarely organized and that’s okay but foods and vegetables literally get lost. So this morning I cleaned it out and rearranged everything. You know how in the bottom there are compartments for fruits and vegetables. NOT ANY MORE. Vegetables get lost down there!
I want all fruits and vegetable to be within sight. So the vegetable compartment is now for olives – I placed each in a jar. We currently have 3 kinds of olives. It is also for the cheeses. The fruit compartment is used for spinach, parsley and coriander because we stock large amounts of those they don’t go bad as quick.
The other vegetables are in a plastic tray – cleaned and in sight of the naked eye. The door also has one row for vegetables that get lost like the chillis, the zucchinis and other vegetables that get less over time. So for example if we are down to only a few carrots then they will be stored on the door – in open sight.
I was looking for leek the other day and it was beginning to rot.
My new system will prevent waste of vegetables Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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I cant get the coriander or other green flowery stuff to last longer than 2 days!!
I hate cleaning the fridge out too though
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: 3 kinds of olive, YUK!!! I hate Olives
I cant get the coriander or other green flowery stuff to last longer than 2 days!!
I hate cleaning the fridge out too though
I was the same way about olives too Ayisha but Egypt made me become fond of them. Try the Kalamata ones – they taste delicious. Stay away from the ones they have in small shops – the vinegar and salt solution is almost always too strong.
Yeah we usually stock only 2 kinds Spanish/Greek black olives and the Green ones but now we also have black olives that were brined in water. These olives are sliced and used as Pizza topping as the pickled ones taste gross with pizza.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I would suggest that if you have problems with the things that you quoted, that they are simply that, "your" problems. Best wishes in sorting that out.
I find it strange and sad that you feel the need to personally attack me, especially after you were the one who started this thread which should remind us to deal respectfully with others, even if we disagree with them.
I gave the link because I happened to know where it was, so everyone is free to read and form an opinion for themselves. I don't think there is anything wrong with me giving my personal opinion at the same time. Just like you, I have read the book. And I happen to have a different opinion about it than you. So what? I did not say you are having personal issues or try to insult you because you happen to like it.
I have said I feel offended by some things in the text and I regard some of them as un-Islamic. Usually, whenever I criticize something, I give reference as well as reasons why; so everyone can see where my opinion is coming from and can agree or disagree. However, getting personal instead usually makes any kind of serious exchange difficult.
You are correct, some things in this text *I* have a problem with, because *I* have never in my life been made to think or feel that there is anything I could not do or that I should be treated in a different way because I am a woman; I have never been made to feel I need to be obedient to a man and "put his wishes and pleasures before my own", simply because he is a man; the concept of this simply seems bizarre and ridiculous to me. It has never occurred to me that God wants another person to control me or that my main goal in life should be a mother and wife, otherwise I should be lacking in fulfilling a religious duty.
I also believe that I have a right to my body and my emotions; so the concept that I should be obliged to have sex with someone because this person supposedly has a greater right over my body than myself is likewise bizarre to me -- and very offending. The idea of a man forcing himself on me when I am not in the mood (for whatever reason!!!) is highly repulsive and disgusting. If you find that normal and non-objectionable, fine. But claiming this is a part of religion is a slap in the face of all women in this world who are suffering from marital rape and can't go to court because they happen to be living in a country where the laws give her husband the right to have sex with her anytime he wishes, because people like the author of that book claim that's God's command.
Again, the concept of marital rape in Islam and whether the husband has the right to force his wife to have sex has been discussed on here countless times. And if you take a look at those threads you might see that it's not only *me* who has a problem with this concept. I'd say any woman with a healthy sense of self-worth would find this appalling.
So does this mean I need "sorting out" because I don't comply with some mens' personal views on how the ideal woman or the ideal Muslima or the ideal daughter / mother / wife / sister should be? I don't think so. And it's a bit of a vain argument anyway because I know there are many people in this world who happen to share my point of view.
Also there are enough men -- Muslim and non-Muslim -- who don't want their wife to be a slave who feels "that a woman was barely qualified to wipe the dust from her husband's feet with her face" and that she has to be obedient all the time and should somehow be inferior to him. Alhamdullilah!
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I don't find taking care of my husband in the proper Islamic manner to be a chore or "degrading". I love him and am happy to please him in whatever way I can.
I don't find it in any way degrading to take care of your loved ones, quite the opposite! But there's a big difference between lovingly caring for someone and the relationship that I see described in some parts of this book. Love, care and respect are things that need to reciprocal, they can't grow properly in a relationship where one partner is dominating the other and / or given more rights.
If you want to be submissive to your husband, that is your choice alone. But claiming, for example, that a woman has to have sex with her husband whenever he wishes, regardless of her personal emotions, trying to make her feel guilty if she refuses, telling her she is committing a grave sin and God will be angry at her, that's a diferent matter altogether. Yes, I think it's very un-Islamic, and also it's simply un-humane.
The Qur'an is pretty clear on those things and on the relationship between husband and wife, which is described in beautiful terms in some verses. It does not say women are lesser than men or anything to that extent, but the author of said text does. He claims to be speaking in God's name, but it's clear that he is presenting his personal opinion on many things rather than divine rules.
For example he keeps stressing that household and children are the woman's prime responsibility and the most important thing for her. The text claims that the prophet's wives are a good example to follow. But there are many ahadeeth telling us that the prophet mended his own clothes, helped his wives in the household as much as he could, loved taking care of his kids etc. Now why are those not given the same importance and mentioning here?
Most of us know that according to the Qur'an every human being is being judged for their own deeds and intentions and that that nobody bears responsibility for another person. Yet here we read that the husband is some kind of intermediate between woman and God, we are told that through HIM she gets to paradise or not.
This is a very debatable and strange thing to say. You could have addressed this very valid point of mine and maybe explained your point of view on this issue. Instead you avoid direct conversation by insinuating there must either be something wrong with me personally or with my understanding of Islamic sources.
What I was and am addressing is what I percieve as a very dishonest way of presenting things ... too many subjective things are being presented as *truth*, while in fact the choice and selection of material used to make particular points is highly subjective.
It would be more beneficial if you could just address the points I made if you disagree with them, rather than trying to made snide remarks. I remember you've done that before when I explained that and why I don't accept authority for authority's sake. I don't understand what's so offensive about this, but for some reason it seems to bother you.
Hi, Dalia
Thank you for posting this detailed point of view. It helped me understand where you are coming from.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote: You are correct, some things in this text *I* have a problem with, because *I* have never in my life been made to think or feel that there is anything I could not do or that I should be treated in a different way because I am a woman; I have never been made to feel I need to be obedient to a man and "put his wishes and pleasures before my own", simply because he is a man; the concept of this simply seems bizarre and ridiculous to me. It has never occurred to me that God wants another person to control me or that my main goal in life should be a mother and wife, otherwise I should be lacking in fulfilling a religious duty.
Dalia, I also have a problem with it.
I have lived this life of believing that I was pleasing God when I pleased my husband. It happens in Christianity too. Problem was I could never please my husband so I kept trying harder. Until one day I gave up. Kinda like a dog chasing his own tail. I remember sitting in church listening to the preacher telling us how we needed to serve God and I thought...I can't do it anymore, I'm too weak. I eventually realized that God doesn't want me treated like this that and that I was teaching my children to sacrifice themselves for everyone else.
It seems to me when a person gives an opinion of something they think; like having slaves and raping them is wrong then people think they are speaking against Islam. Or if you voice that you think having sex with a child is wrong, then you are accused of being against Islam. Is this what Islam is? It sure is confusing to me.
I am offended on a regular basis with respect to how women are degraded on ES. It seems that no one notices or cares how women are demeaned on this site. Yet dare not say any thing that may offend "a man".
I thought men were suppose to be the stronger ones. Honestly when I look around, what I see mostly are strong women and weak men.
PI, I see strength in you. Just wanted to let you know that I see it, for what it's worth.
I am having a hard time posting this so I hope what I said here is understood how I mean it and not as a criticism of an others religion.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I see this as an attack on Loved One because she views her marriage unlike some other women.
It's attack on her because she did not say anything to cause such feedback.
She simply stated she supports good attitude, and wanted to share her feeling about it.
I as a Muslim woman haven never been tretead in the way described, and despite such fact I haven't found what Loved One explained as offensive.
She had never said that she is supportive of mistreatment of women, yet this thread turned again into 'another stupid Muslim woman who is obedient to her husband'.
This is so unfair. We don't know how she is with her husband.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I see this as an attack on Loved One because she views her marriage unlike some other women.
It's attack on her because she did not say anything to cause such feedback.
She simply stated she supports good attitude, and wanted to share her feeling about it.
I as a Muslim woman haven never been tretead in the way described, and despite such fact I haven't found what Loved One explained as offensive.
She had never said that she is supportive of mistreatment of women, yet this thread turned again into 'another stupid Muslim woman who is obedient to her husband'.
This is so unfair. We don't know how she is with her husband.
Mashaa Allah a very intellegent response. Barakallahu feekum. What LovedOne has written initally is/were the ahadeeth of the Prophet salallahu alayhi wassalaam. They are his words and his naseehah to the Believing Women first and foremost. He salallahu alayhi wassalaam was sent as a mercy for ALL of mankind and he salallahu alayhi wassalam would not have advise the women to do something which was not beneficial for themselves in this life, life in the grave and in the life in the hereafter.
No one complains about how a woman is supposed to treat here children, male or female and the rewards she receives in caring for them in the dunya as well as the akhirah. So why try to focus or single out the rewards (which are many mashaa Allah) in this life as well as in the life in the hereafter for a woman who take care of the needs of here husband who is here other half, her garment.
O Muslim Sisters don't let someone try to influence you that loving and caring for your family is something to be ashame of or that you should inferior or a 2nd class citizen for doing so. No, shower your husband and if you have them children with love and affection and take care of them and nurture them with all that Allah has given you. Make your intention pure and soley for the pleasure of Allah Azza wa Jal and you will recieve a tremendous benefit and see the fruits of your efforts in this life as well what is/has been written for you in the hereafter bi'itinillah.
Just because some men don't fulfill their obligation and responsibilities doesn't mean that a women should not fulfill her obligations. We Muslims are advised to treat others better than we treat ourselves. To put the needs of others BEFRORE the needs of ourselves, and this holds true whether we are male or female.
Here is another special hadeeth of the Prophet Salallahu alayhi wassalaam: "When servant takes care of the needs of another person, then Allah takes care of his need (the one who help take care of the person in need)." This includes your husband, mother, friend relative whomever! So love and take care of your hubands sisters and don't be ashame or afraid of what someone tells you, for you have been given supreme advice from the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam in this regard, and his salallahu alayhi wassalaam's guidance is the best guidance.
BTW There is an very good book (which somone here said may not exist) called the "The Ideal Muslim" by Muhammad Ali Al-Hashimiit it's the book written for Men verse the book "The Ideal Muslimah" by the same author. If you have a male husband, a brother, uncle or cousin and they read English why not purchase it as a gift for them, you will not regret it.
In closing we Muslims must remember that male and females have different roles and responsibilities in soceity. We must not get confused and thing that our way of life (deen) needs to be change or is not fulfilling just because it does not conform to the way of the non-Muslims. They have their own way of living and we have ourselves. They have their own goals and objectives in the dunya and akhirah and we have ours. The two are not the same and they oppose each other in both worlds.
So keep your eyes on the prize which is Jannatul Firdous and strive with your whole self to obtain that goal, seeking the face of Allah Tabaraka Ta'ala and do not let the shayaateen or Iblis distract and fool you for sure his goal is for you to not reach yours i.e. Jannatul Firdous.
Remember in Allah is the tawfiq (success).
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Loved one - Good topic , I do have to say though, that as a muslim woman myself I would also be cringing at the parts Dalia quoted.
LML - I dont think this has turned into any criticism of Lovedone for what she believes or how she lives her life AT ALL, Dalia just pointed out how she felt and things sge would not be comfortable with, and IMO did recieve a reply suggesting it was 'her' problem, which is not very warm and friendly - we all have different views, different ways of living and will interpret things in our own way, I think thats what makes life interesting and I dont think any of us would be here if we just all agreed with each other all the time - I know, hard to imagine hey?
Dalia and Jean Bean, I loved your posts on here. My Husband also helps me with the housework, if i cook, he washes up - I love that.
Exiled - You are sooooo right about the veggies going off in the trays in the bottom of the fridge, mine do too!
Ayisha - I freeze my corriander, in a bag, then i get it out all frozen, crush it in the bag and use what i need and put the rest back in the freezer- works for me Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I see this as an attack on Loved One because she views her marriage unlike some other women.
there were no 'attacks' here until now. Loved one 'did' reply to Dalia with a 'snipe' at her.
quote:It's attack on her because she did not say anything to cause such feedback.
what feedback? she got the feedback of the members reaction to her posting.
quote:She simply stated she supports good attitude, and wanted to share her feeling about it.
that great, and the original post was and still is seen as that.
quote:I as a Muslim woman haven never been tretead in the way described, and despite such fact I haven't found what Loved One explained as offensive.
As a Muslim woman I have never been treated in the way described either and I dont think anyone has seen what LovedOne originally posted as offensive
quote:She had never said that she is supportive of mistreatment of women, yet this thread turned again into 'another stupid Muslim woman who is obedient to her husband'.
This is so unfair. We don't know how she is with her husband.
You are the one thats called it 'another stupid Muslim woman who is obediant to her husband' thread, no one else has.
Dalia pointed out the book that LovedOne had taken the quotes from. The quotes in the post were to do with behaviour 'to each other', not necessarily between a husband and wife, it was nothing to do with that.
Dalia pointed out WHY she didnt like THE BOOK and was sniped at for her opinion on the BOOK.
The thread was not 'turned' by Dalias post it was 'turned' before that with some wanting members 'called out'.
Then we have Holy sands saying its meant for believing women in bold type, wonder if thats a dig at any in particular? One wouldnt expect it in a thread about behaviour towards others would one! Thing is there was nothing in LovedOnes original post directed at believing women it was to everyone!
Then we are blessed with a hadith of sands
quote:O Muslim Sisters don't let someone try to influence you that loving and caring for your family is something to be ashame of or that you should inferior or a 2nd class citizen for doing so. No, shower your husband and if you have them children with love and affection and take care of them and nurture them with all that Allah has given you. Make your intention pure and soley for the pleasure of Allah Azza wa Jal and you will recieve a tremendous benefit and see the fruits of your efforts in this life as well what is/has been written for you in the hereafter bi'itinillah.
I mean really should muslim start of their posts with 'O Muslim Sister' like its from Allah Almighty Himself?
This book is demeaning to women, thats now the arguement here, nothing to do with an 'attack' on anyone and certainly not on LovedOne, although she could have 'discussed' what Dalia had to say instead of sniping at her, which would have been better and shown that she herself had taken on board what she had said in her original post!
Lets not also forget another famous hadith, which is also probably in that same book to get women to 'do as they should'
7:62:125 "Then I saw the (Hell) Fire, and I have never before, seen such a horrible sight as that, and I saw that the majority of its dwellers were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for that?" He replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was said. "Do they disbelieve in Allah (are they ungrateful to Allah)?" He replied, "They are not thankful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors done to them. Even if you do good to one of them all your life, when she seems some harshness from you, she will say, "I have never seen any good from you.' "
Yes is IS SAHIH hadith.
Odd thing is that I see a LOT on here is that Dalia also posted verses from QURAN which 'agreed' with the original post, why weren't those verses posted as a means for us to understand how to behave towards each other? They are God's Words, and again they are 'passed over' in favour of hadith.
Dalia did not say anywhere that she didnt want to, or disagreed with, caring for or loving her partner, nowhere did she say that, but again the holy powers have twisted what she has said, and has explained in great detail, to something they see in her post that wasnt there!
In short, there was nothing wrong with LovedOnes original post and no one has said there was. Dalia expressed her feelings towards the book it came from and the author, which others have agreed with, she made references to other things said IN the book and SHE has been 'attacked' for that as being anti-islamic in her thinking. The author of the book is anti-Islamic in his thinking too as proved from Quran.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Very nice point. Jazaakum Allahu Khairan for the naseehah.
'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller."
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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Loved One wanted to post some things from a book that she is currently reading with good intent ( "Seems like we could all benefit" )
When she gave title of the book, this book has been dissaproved and nothing positive was mentioned.
Loved One replied that it all depends on how you interpret things.
She as a Muslim woman doesn't find taking care of her husband in the proper Islamic manner to be a chore or "degrading".
She loves him and is happy to please him in whatever way she can.
What is offensive here? Nothing.
Islam is not degrading her, on contrary I also wish if all men become providers and show more respect and love towards ladies so that we have more Loved Ones posting such threads.
We need more threads like Loved One posts because she is speaking about good experiences, you could learn something from her.
She is happy with Muslim husband ( I assume Egyptian man ) so if you are interested how she makes it, hear her. Let her tell you.
You don't have to like it or agree, but let her express her happiness and share it without being attacked.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I see this as an attack on Loved One because she views her marriage unlike some other women.
It's attack on her because she did not say anything to cause such feedback.
She simply stated she supports good attitude, and wanted to share her feeling about it.
I as a Muslim woman haven never been tretead in the way described, and despite such fact I haven't found what Loved One explained as offensive.
She had never said that she is supportive of mistreatment of women, yet this thread turned again into 'another stupid Muslim woman who is obedient to her husband'.
This is so unfair. We don't know how she is with her husband.
Mashaa Allah a very intellegent response. Barakallahu feekum. What LovedOne has written initally is/were the ahadeeth of the Prophet salallahu alayhi wassalaam. They are his words and his naseehah to the Believing Women first and foremost.
Thank you Sands. Muslims have duty to take care of each other in our lives, especially our parents, children, wife, husband..
This is the best quality I learned throught Islam, and no matter what anyone says I know for myself and for most Muslims this is not just duty but also sign of caring behavior and compassion people have for each other.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: BTW There is an very good book (which somone here said may not exist) called the "The Ideal Muslim" by Muhammad Ali Al-Hashimiit it's the book written for Men verse the book "The Ideal Muslimah" by the same author. If you have a male husband, a brother, uncle or cousin and they read English why not purchase it as a gift for them, you will not regret it.
I had a read in it the other day.
What I found very strange is that the author keeps talking about "manhood". According to him, the husband is responsible for how his wife dresses, her practice of worship, her conduct etc. And if he loses control over the women in his family he supposedly loses this "manhood". I think this "manhood" issue is a tribal thing, I don't see what it has to do with religion ...
He again stresses the point that it is the husband who leads the wife to paradise or not. Also, it seems to me that the relationship between spouses which he describes seems more like the relationship between a parent and a child, not that between two intellectually, emotionally and spiritually equal persons.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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but we know marriage is a two way thing and if im happy then hes happy 
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