What I found very strange is that the author keeps talking about "manhood". According to him, the husband is responsible for how his wife dresses, her practice of worship, her conduct etc. And if he loses control over the women in his family he supposedly loses this "manhood". I think this "manhood" issue is a tribal thing, I don't see what it has to do with religion ...
Any feminist would say the same thing. I know it's your opinion but projecting your own issues on the 2 books and claiming that both books are degrading for women is clearly wrong.
Posts: 9 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: Any feminist would say the same thing.
I am a feminist.
quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: I know it's your opinion but projecting your own issues on the 2 books
I don't remember knowing you or having a conversation with you before, and you just joined the board this month, so I'm wondering how you can *know* whether I have issues and which they might be.
quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: claiming that both books are degrading for women is clearly wrong.
Saying that "a woman was barely qualified to wipe the dust from her husband's feet with her face" is not degrading? How would you interpret this statement?
I explained clearly, in detail and with quotes what I found degrading to women. If you are saying they are not, why don't you just address the points I made instead of trying to suggest there is something wrong with my understanding, yet not giving a concrete example of why it should be wrong?
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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He has a deep and compassionate understanding of her nature and psychology, and he directs her towards the straight path of Islam (...). He recognizes her inclinations, desires and moods, and tries to reconcile between them and the ideal life and behaviour he wants for her, while never forgetting for an instant that she has been created from a bent rib, and straightening a bent rib is impossible. ...
The concern of Islam to affirm man's position of qawwam over women and reinforce her obligation to obey and please him, goes as far as forbidding her to fast at times other than Ramadan or to receive and guests without his permission.
Islam gave the husband this right to be qawwam over his wife so that he will be a real man, knowing how to steer the ship of family life towards the shore of safety and guidance. Islam warns all men against the trial and temptation (fitnah) of women, which may make them heedless and weak, and lessen their religious commitment, so that they turn a blind eye ot the waywardness and unIslamic behaviour of their wifes.
In this way, the female waywardness which we see in many so-called Muslim homes will be done away with. The man who sees his wife, daughters and sisters going out in the street with make-up, uncovered heads and bare arms, clothes but seeming naked, and does nothing to stop this disobedience of Islam, has surely lost his manhood, abandoned Islam and earned the wrath of Allah.
...
The sincere Muslim is responsible for his womenfolk's adherence to the Islamic teachings regarding her going out and the hijab which is the badge of Muslim women. The day when a husband lets his wife or his environment take over and dispenses with this Islamic ruling without being able to stand up to them, is the day he says good-bye to both his religion and his manhood.
The husband's responsibility for his wife does not stop with her outward appearance, but also includes her worship and conduct. He is responsible for her if she omits some act of worship, or if she neglects or deliberately ignores her duties towards Allah. He is responsible for her good behaviour and completion of her duties. Any shortcomings on her part will detract from her husband's manhood, diminish his Islam and damage the role of qawwam with which Allah has honoured him.
Islam considers women to be a trust which has been given to men for safe-keeping. As the wife is usually influenced by her husband, he may take her with him to Paradise or lead her to hell.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: Any feminist would say the same thing.
I am a feminist.
quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: I know it's your opinion but projecting your own issues on the 2 books
I don't remember knowing you or having a conversation with you before, so I'm wondering how you can *know* whether I have issues and which they might be.
quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: claiming that both books are degrading for women is clearly wrong.
Saying that "a woman was barely qualified to wipe the dust from her husband's feet with her face" is not degrading? How would you interpret this statement?
If you are saying they are not, why don't you just address the points I made instead of trying to suggest there is something wrong with my understanding, yet not giving a concrete example of why it should be wrong?
No we never had a conversation before but i've been reading ES for a while. and some topics and members are unavoidable
When we talk about relations between men and women then its better to remember what quran and Sunnah said about the subject and not to single situations.for example the Prophet pbuh said: "that heaven is under the feet of mothers"....why didn't you remember that if you are really knowledgeable about Islam!
Islam is a whole and you can't disregard part of it and take the other. I noticed you always use copy/paste from Quran or Sunnah to show your points, Yet you are not muslim..so why the trouble of discussing it in first place if you don't believe in Islam?
Posts: 9 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2008
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When we talk about relations between men and women then its better to remember what quran and Sunnah said about the subject and not to single situations.for example the Prophet pbuh said: "that heaven is under the feet of mothers"....why didn't you remember that
If, as you said, you've been reading this board for while -- or even read this thread proplerly -- you should have noticed that this is exactly what I've been doing.
I have repeatedly said that I think the Qur'an describes the relationship between husband and wife in beautiful terms and that I feel all the statements we so often come across, describing a wife as a slave or inferior to her husband are a huge contradiction to that.
I've also said that -- from what I know of the prophet's life -- I don't see that his wife were submisse, opressed etc., quite the opposite. I've posted tons of texts describing that Islam empowers women and that the misogyny we so often come across in texts or actions of Muslims are a problem of patriarchal interpretations and not of Islam itself.
Those statements of mine are allover the place, in fact I'm sure some people have already become bored or annoyed by my repeated mentioning of those things. So it's weird that you haven't come across them although you claim you've read enough of my posts to *know* me.
And if you want to make a positive contribution, why don't you post some nice examples in my thread about great Muslim women:
quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: noticed you always use copy/paste from Quran or Sunnah to show your points
Errr ... of course I quote from the Qur'an or from Islamic sources if I want to make a point clear. It would hardly make sense to quote from the Bhagavadgita in a discussion about Islam, right? Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Islam is a whole and you can't disregard part of it and take the other. I noticed you always use copy/paste from Quran or Sunnah to show your points, Yet you are not muslim..so why the trouble of discussing it in first place if you don't believe in Islam? [/QB]
MASRI did you know she answered the part about quoting Quran and NOT the sunnah, and she also (as usually) did NOT answer the part about her NOT being a Muslim and discussing issues of Islaam in the first place. Here is the piece of advice that I always give regarding Dalia..don't waste your time in endless and fruitless debates with her. You'll be chasing your tail like a dog i.e. just going around in circles.
However, I can tell that you do have encite about her and this is good.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: Islam is a whole and you can't disregard part of it and take the other. I noticed you always use copy/paste from Quran or Sunnah to show your points,
Yet you are not muslim..so why the trouble of discussing it in first place if you don't believe in Islam?
I want to know too. Dalia what's the reply on this question?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: BTW There is an very good book (which somone here said may not exist) called the "The Ideal Muslim" by Muhammad Ali Al-Hashimiit it's the book written for Men verse the book "The Ideal Muslimah" by the same author. If you have a male husband, a brother, uncle or cousin and they read English why not purchase it as a gift for them, you will not regret it.
I had a read in it the other day.
What I found very strange is that the author keeps talking about "manhood". According to him, the husband is responsible for how his wife dresses, her practice of worship, her conduct etc. And if he loses control over the women in his family he supposedly loses this "manhood". I think this "manhood" issue is a tribal thing, I don't see what it has to do with religion ...
He again stresses the point that it is the husband who leads the wife to paradise or not. Also, it seems to me that the relationship between spouses which he describes seems more like the relationship between a parent and a child, not that between two intellectually, emotionally and spiritually equal persons.
EXACLY ...that is why they had all this honor killings (they lose face) tell me one more time it has nothing to do with ISLAM Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I:
Islam is a whole and you can't disregard part of it and take the other. I noticed you always use copy/paste from Quran or Sunnah to show your points, Yet you are not muslim..so why the trouble of discussing it in first place if you don't believe in Islam?
MASRI did you know she answered the part about quoting Quran and NOT the sunnah, and she also (as usually) did NOT answer the part about her NOT being a Muslim and discussing issues of Islaam in the first place. Here is the piece of advice that I always give regarding Dalia..don't waste your time in endless and fruitless debates with her. You'll be chasing your tail like a dog i.e. just going around in circles.
However, I can tell that you do have encite about her and this is good. [/QB]
That goes for you to you are a woman hater why are you hiding in the closet Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: Islam is a whole and you can't disregard part of it and take the other. I noticed you always use copy/paste from Quran or Sunnah to show your points,
Yet you are not muslim..so why the trouble of discussing it in first place if you don't believe in Islam?
I want to know too. Dalia what's the reply on this question?
maybe to understand why muslim are so left behind.. honey Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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When we talk about relations between men and women then its better to remember what quran and Sunnah said about the subject and not to single situations.for example the Prophet pbuh said: "that heaven is under the feet of mothers"....why didn't you remember that
If, as you said, you've been reading this board for while -- or even read this thread proplerly -- you should have noticed that this is exactly what I've been doing.
I have repeatedly said that I think the Qur'an describes the relationship between husband and wife in beautiful terms and that I feel all the statements we so often come across, describing a wife as a slave or inferior to her husband are a huge contradiction to that.
I've also said that -- from what I know of the prophet's life -- I don't see that his wife were submisse, opressed etc., quite the opposite. I've posted tons of texts describing that Islam empowers women and that the misogyny we so often come across in texts or actions of Muslims are a problem of patriarchal interpretations and not of Islam itself.
Those statements of mine are allover the place, in fact I'm sure some people have already become bored or annoyed by my repeated mentioning of those things. So it's weird that you haven't come across them although you claim you've read enough of my posts to *know* me.
And if you want to make a positive contribution, why don't you post some nice examples in my thread about great Muslim women:
quote:Originally posted by M*A*S*R*I: noticed you always use copy/paste from Quran or Sunnah to show your points
Errr ... of course I quote from the Qur'an or from Islamic sources if I want to make a point clear. It would hardly make sense to quote from the Bhagavadgita in a discussion about Islam, right?
Why does it bug you so much Masri? Because Dalia brings up almost unrefutable points over and over again? Whether or not she IS or IS NOT Muslim is not the point, is it?
All that text about a husband over his wife is a crock of b.s. More legalism and dogma without a shred of spirituality or fact for that matter...doesn't it say in Quran something about all souls being responsible for themselves on the Day of Judgement? No intercession...including the intercession of a husband or man. This is just the Arab patriatrchial societial spin on Islam, nothing more. But loads of men and women buy into it. Sheez, can't you recognize women are living and breathing INDIVIDUALS...that made my stomach turn to see how men are programmed to believe how they are "in charge" of their wifes every move and thought. Thank God I was not born into such a mentality.
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Wow the Non-Muslims here seem very angry, I mean VERY angry.
Dalia, Gab, humanist..take a prozac or valium and relax and please stop with the vulgar language go God sakes.
The Muslims here seem to enjoy the book as it was written for us. If you non-Muslims don't like the book it's okay no-one is forcing you to to read or accept it.
We will get the benefits from the book inshaa Allah.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Wow the Non-Muslims here seem very angry, I mean VERY angry.
Dalia, Gab, humanist..take a prozac or valium and relax and please stop with the vulgar language go God sakes.
The Muslims here seem to enjoy the book as it was written for us. If you non-Muslims don't like the book it's okay no-one is forcing you to to read or accept it.
We will get the benefits from the book inshaa Allah.
I agree this thread has been made for those who find it interesting and could benefit them.
Now it turned into attack on Muslims.( again )
It was simply diverted from "The Good Behavior" into "Islam is disrespectful towards women".
I have read all replies and still can't see anything offensive in quotes provided.
It seems to me that people might be unwilling to let Loved One speak without being attacked just because she is a Muslim.
Do you think this would take place if she said the very same thing, but she stated she is Non-Muslim? ( I don't )
I think in that case people would be very nice to her and hear her story with lots of lovely feedback.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Wow the Non-Muslims here seem very angry, I mean VERY angry.
Dalia, Gab, humanist..take a prozac or valium and relax and please stop with the vulgar language go God sakes.
The Muslims here seem to enjoy the book as it was written for us. If you non-Muslims don't like the book it's okay no-one is forcing you to to read or accept it.
We will get the benefits from the book inshaa Allah.
I agree this thread has been made for those who find it interesting and could benefit them.
Now it turned into attack on Muslims.( again )
It was simply diverted from "The Good Behavior" into "Islam is disrespectful towards women".
I have read all replies and still can't see anything offensive in quotes provided.
It seems to me that people might be unwilling to let Loved One speak without being attacked just because she is a Muslim.
Do you think this would take place if she said the very same thing, but she stated she is Non-Muslim? ( I don't )
I think in that case people would be very nice to her and hear her story with lots of lovely feedback.
You know LML there has been so many threads about Egyptian and Foreigner marriages that went busted, let's not even talk about the relationships outside of marriage.
Then lovedone comes and shares some very exciting news about her marriage and good advice as well, and what happens. They start to pounce on her. It is like you said. It seems that many here would rather hear bad news of a marriage breakup verse good positive news for a change.
The proof is in the pudding. So like you said and I fully agree. Let's share news and advice that is beneficial and positive. There are enough alternative source where we can hear negative things. Let's not make ES one of them.
Warmest regards. Salaam, Sakinah wa Rahmatullah for All of our Brothers and Sisters.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Yet you are not muslim..so why the trouble of discussing it in first place if you don't believe in Islam?
SANDS
quote:did NOT answer the part about her NOT being a Muslim and discussing issues of Islaam in the first place. Here is the piece of advice that I always give regarding Dalia..don't waste your time in endless and fruitless debates with her. You'll be chasing your tail like a dog i.e. just going around in circles.
LML
quote:I want to know too. Dalia what's the reply on this question?
Here we have 3 self appointed 'Bouncers for Allah' who are sitting in His place in judgement. According to these 3 you cannot discuss Islam unless you are a Muslim. Even if you ARE a Muslim you can only discuss and agree with what they do, or you are declared a non-muslim by the 'Bouncers for Allah'.
Sands, a self appointed 'Bouncer for Allah' and 'Trainee Prophet', has declared above you are not to 'waste your time' discussing Islam with Dalia as you will be 'going round in circles' which goes to prove she has valid points that they cannot answer.
These self appointed 'Bouncers for Allah' seem to disregard the concept of 'Dawa' in Islam, which means discussing Islam WITH non-muslims and helping them to see the 'beauty, logic, fairness and truth' in Islam, in fact these self appointed 'Bouncers for Allah' dont actually SEE any beauty, logic, fairness in Islam, but they insist what they see is the Truth.
If you DO happen to question books on Islam from sources of MEN, you are accused of hating Islam and attacking it and its members:
LML
quote:Now it turned into attack on Muslims.( again )
LML, it turned into an attack on Dalia and Humanist, Humanist IS a Muslim but has been 'downgraded and thrown out' of Islam by the self appointed 'Bouncers of Allah'
LML
quote:It was simply diverted from "The Good Behavior" into "Islam is disrespectful towards women".
Here is where you are wrong. You cannot understand the difference between critisism of A BOOK and critisism of Islam. The ctitisism was for the BOOK and the ideas of its AUTHOR. I have to point out this book was NOT QURAN. Dalia has continually said ISLAM IS NOT DISRESPECTFUL TO WOMAN, and points out this author IS. This author is writing from his own perspective. Dalia ALWAYS uses QURAN in her discussions to try to point out these other books are NOT based on ISLAM.
LML
quote:It seems to me that people might be unwilling to let Loved One speak without being attacked just because she is a Muslim.
This is clearly the lie that will spread the hate. No one has attacked LovedOne here but this incitement to hate is saying they have. Because Dalia has disagreed with some points in the BOOK that LovedOne quoted from, and NOT even any of the actual quotes LovedOne made, the self appointed 'Bouncer for Allah' has turned this into an attack on LovedOne because she is Muslim, which any thinking person with a brain can see is NOT what has happened. Sadly the 'Bouncers for Allah' do not HAVE a brain nor are they allowed to THINK.
SANDS
quote:Then lovedone comes and shares some very exciting news about her marriage and good advice as well, and what happens. They start to pounce on her. It is like you said. It seems that many here would rather hear bad news of a marriage breakup verse good positive news for a change.
Now anyone not reading the full thread might even believe this. No one 'pounced' on LovedOne for sharing her ideas. Dalia gave her 'personal' opinion on a BOOK to which LovedOne replied, not in a very 'Islamic' manner, by twisting what Dalia had actually said and telling her it was 'her problem'.
The lovely thread was already ruined by another self appointed 'Bouncer of Allah', Exiled, with this line:
EXILED
quote:Ladies you need to actually name and call members out if you are serious. The culprits should be called out because this beating around the bush does nothing at all. If you truly identify some members as being detrimental to the general well being of this forum then please publicly state who you deem is the culprit.
This self appointed 'Bouncer of Allah' has also told me to 'leave Islam and Muslims alone' in another thread, declaring himself to be the guard of the 'gate' to God and the one who decides who is or is not Muslim, a job only Allah has.
I will name and call out the 'culprits' in this hate campaign on this board, Exiled.
LovingMyLife Somewhere In the Sands Exiled
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Wherever you were at for 2 days Ayisha. I would be nice if you went back there. This thread and many other places on the forum was very quiet when you didn't post walhamdulillah.
There is something evil and nasty in your heart and it is expressed in your posts. Be kind and do everyone here a favor, go post on a different form that is condusive to their idealogy inshaa Allah.
I pray that Allah guide you to that which will benefit you in this life, life in the grave and life in the hereafter and that thing is the true understanding of Al-Islaam and love for the Muslimeen.
-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Sands, this forum was quiet for 2 days as you and your other 'Bouncers' didnt have me to attack, so you attacked Dalia and Humanist until they decided you weren't worth their time also. The other forums were still active with LML on her stuck record of hate though, even without me she is running around like a headless chicken accusing everyone of hate and demanding answers to rediculous questions, even when they are answered she cant see it.
Your prayers have been answered sands, I have the correct understanding of Islam, I pray one day you will too.
I am back by popular demand sands, deal with it 'brother'
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I have no reason whatsover no to believe Sands as he had conversed with you for a very long time.
I don't need to experience the very same thing he experienced to know how to act with you.
I asked you bunch of questions to determine how much you are involved in hate and you failed again and again to show anything else but what it's in you.
Instead, during such conversation, and I was very nice to you, you turned around and talked bad about me to another member saying that your only goal is - to make fool of me.
With such comment you only made fool of yourself.
I don't respect you. I told you already why.
You sided with Muslim haters. You told everyone who you are. I don't think you are a Muslim.
If you were Muslim you would not even in your dreams think of slandering Islam or any Muslim whatsoever because you would understand our religion.
But you don't. I know I am wasting my time with you, please don't follow me all over egypt search message board.
I am not interested in conversations with you.
Find someone else whom will you attack try some Chatolics, Jews, Orthodox for a change. Let's see if they would embrace your attacks.
Leave Muslims and Islam alone.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Are YOU telling ME to leave Islam like Exiled did?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
"O ye Ayisha! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Quran. 5:101-102)
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
lol UC, being declared non-muslim by sands, exiled and LML are only strengthening my faith
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Wherever you were at for 2 days Ayisha. I would be nice if you went back there. This thread and many other places on the forum was very quiet when you didn't post walhamdulillah.
There is something evil and nasty in your heart and it is expressed in your posts. Be kind and do everyone here a favor, go post on a different form that is condusive to their idealogy inshaa Allah.
I pray that Allah guide you to that which will benefit you in this life, life in the grave and life in the hereafter and that thing is the true understanding of Al-Islaam and love for the Muslimeen.
Mat 7:1 ¶ Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
____________________
2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud , blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers , incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good ,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded , lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: heady, highminded .
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
__________________
This is for you Ayisha. You have never giving me reason to think badly of Islam as stated by your accusers. I respect your views as a Muslim. No one can tell you who you are.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Mat 7:7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I have no reason whatsover no to believe Sands as he had conversed with you for a very long time.
I don't need to experience the very same thing he experienced to know how to act with you.
I asked you bunch of questions to determine how much you are involved in hate and you failed again and again to show anything else but what it's in you.
Instead, during such conversation, and I was very nice to you, you turned around and talked bad about me to another member saying that your only goal is - to make fool of me.
With such comment you only made fool of yourself.
I don't respect you. I told you already why.
You sided with Muslim haters. You told everyone who you are. I don't think you are a Muslim.
If you were Muslim you would not even in your dreams think of slandering Islam or any Muslim whatsoever because you would understand our religion.
But you don't. I know I am wasting my time with you, please don't follow me all over egypt search message board.
I am not interested in conversations with you.
Find someone else whom will you attack try some Chatolics, Jews, Orthodox for a change. Let's see if they would embrace your attacks.
Leave Muslims and Islam alone.
hmm why are muslime killing each other every day update yourself honey
do some housework or something you breanless slapper... **** of Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Wherever you were at for 2 days Ayisha. I would be nice if you went back there. This thread and many other places on the forum was very quiet when you didn't post walhamdulillah.
There is something evil and nasty in your heart and it is expressed in your posts. Be kind and do everyone here a favor, go post on a different form that is condusive to their idealogy inshaa Allah.
I pray that Allah guide you to that which will benefit you in this life, life in the grave and life in the hereafter and that thing is the true understanding of Al-Islaam and love for the Muslimeen.
retarded idiot and a woman hater
come out of the closet faggot ... Posts: 366 | From: some day | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Wherever you were at for 2 days Ayisha. I would be nice if you went back there. This thread and many other places on the forum was very quiet when you didn't post walhamdulillah.
There is something evil and nasty in your heart and it is expressed in your posts. Be kind and do everyone here a favor, go post on a different form that is condusive to their idealogy inshaa Allah.
I pray that Allah guide you to that which will benefit you in this life, life in the grave and life in the hereafter and that thing is the true understanding of Al-Islaam and love for the Muslimeen.
Mat 7:1 ¶ Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
____________________
2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud , blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers , incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good ,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded , lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: heady, highminded .
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
__________________
This is for you Ayisha. You have never giving me reason to think badly of Islam as stated by your accusers. I respect your views as a Muslim. No one can tell you who you are.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Mat 7:7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Of_gold, thank you. The meaning is the same in Quran too and inshaAllah certian people will see that. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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This is for you Ayisha. You have never giving me reason to think badly of Islam as stated by your accusers. I respect your views as a Muslim. No one can tell you who you are.
The person that you posted this for loves biblical quotes and it is attested to by her response. Thanks, it only reinforces what has been saying concerning her.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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What I found very strange is that the author keeps talking about "manhood". According to him, the husband is responsible for how his wife dresses, her practice of worship, her conduct etc. And if he loses control over the women in his family he supposedly loses this "manhood". I think this "manhood" issue is a tribal thing, I don't see what it has to do with religion ...
Any feminist would say the same thing. I know it's your opinion but projecting your own issues on the 2 books and claiming that both books are degrading for women is clearly wrong.
M*A*S*R*I,
Please don't be discouraged to post in Religion forum again. Especially after creating such a nice username.
I see both you and Loved One won't comment.
Some people here simply don't understand damage they cause to this place by being rude to Muslims like yourself.
This is Egyptsearch forum, you both should be here.
This place and Forum Religion is also about Islam and for Muslims like yourself.
We don't want to lose either of you, so hopefully you will have some new interesting threads and post again very soon.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I wanted to post some things from a book that I'm currently reading. Seems like we could all benefit.
Loved One,
I am really sorry that you thread was ruined.
I can see you won't make any comments or replies in your own thread.
I liked your thread, it was very nice and with good intent, very interesting and much needed.
Unfortunatelly members here did not allow you to lead your own thread and continue with your islamic thought.
As I told to M*A*S*R*I (the new member) despite everything this place is Egyptsearch and Religion forum is about Islam too.
So if anyone should be posting here, it's Muslims like you.
So I hope you come up with some new threads and hopefully this thread was worth at the end if nothing else for the opportunity to bring awareness and make a change.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I wanted to post some things from a book that I'm currently reading. Seems like we could all benefit.
Loved One,
I am really sorry that you thread was ruined.
I can see you won't make any comments or replies in your own thread.
I liked your thread, it was very nice and with good intent, very interesting and much needed.
Unfortunatelly members here did not allow you to lead your own thread and continue with your islamic thought.
As I told to M*A*S*R*I (the new member) despite everything this place is Egyptsearch and Religion forum is about Islam too.
So if anyone should be posting here, it's Muslims like you.
So I hope you come up with some new threads and hopefully this thread was worth at the end if nothing else for the opportunity to bring awareness and make a change.
Excuse me, you really do have a problem dont you? If you look back to page 1 you will see that the thread was doing ok until your cohort Exiled posted, which caused it to be ruined. You are now continuing that same drama of hatred throughout the board, both of you, so stop it and stop making out you are whiter than white, its clear who is carrying on the same crap here, so stop it.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: So I hope you come up with some new threads and hopefully this thread was worth at the end if nothing else for the opportunity to bring awareness and make a change.
Thank you LML for your kind words. sorry i was busy and i don't spend much time online during weekends. Posts: 9 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2008
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Isa 5:20 ¶ Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isa 5:21 ¶ Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
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Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Jam 3:13 ¶ Who [is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jam 3:16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work.
Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Mat 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Isa 5:20 ¶ Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isa 5:21 ¶ Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
And of mankind, there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not.
They (think to) to deceive Allah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!
In their hearts is a disease and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is their because they used to tell lies.
And when it is said to them: "Make not mischiedf on the earth." they say: "We are only peace makers."
Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they percieve not.
And when it is said to them "Believe as the people have believed." they say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Verily, they are the fools but they know not.
And when they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe," but when they are alone with their shayatin (devils and hypocrites), they say; "Truly, we are with you; verily we were but mocking."
Allah mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doing to wander blindly!
These are they who have purchased error for guidance, so their commerce was profitless. And they were not guided.
Suratul Baqarah verses 8-16
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: I have lived this life of believing that I was pleasing God when I pleased my husband. It happens in Christianity too. Problem was I could never please my husband so I kept trying harder. Until one day I gave up. Kinda like a dog chasing his own tail. I remember sitting in church listening to the preacher telling us how we needed to serve God and I thought...I can't do it anymore, I'm too weak. I eventually realized that God doesn't want me treated like this that and that I was teaching my children to sacrifice themselves for everyone else.
But you were not being *weak*, in fact your decision to give up was one of strength.
I've heard many stories of women who "gave up" at a certain point, because they realized there was no way ever living up to pleasing their husbands, that it was impossible because the points that they kept fighting about were not really about issues in themselves, but rather a power struggle. There are husbands who constantly "punish" their wives and make them feel miserable by being insulted, reproachful etc.
There are many women in this world who try very hard to please their husbands, yet life seems to be a constant struggle for them since the husbands are never satisfied. It seems to me that men who have grown up within a somehow patriarchalic culture often tend to blackmail their women. Imo men like this are very immature and selfish, they use religion or anything else as a tool to suppress women. If the women don't do as they please they are not "really feminine", "not fulfilling their divinely ordained duty in life", "being too demanding", "indecent", "rebellious" and so on and so forth. They just use religion as an argument to support the desires of their egos.
Womens' souls have been crippled in many societies and for many centuries with arguments like that. It seems the best way to keep a woman in line is to let her know that she is somehow crossing her boundaries, acting against divinely ordained rules, that she is "not normal", "losing her femininity" and -- most of all -- "not good enough".
But what I see in reality is that very often women are the ones working the hardest to make relationships work. They are the ones being patient and dealing with sulky, complaining, lazy, injust, violent partners over and over again, out of love and the sincere desire to make the relationship work and the family happy. It's women who often suffer tremendously for the sake of their children.
We often hear and read from conservatives of all denominations that feminism and freedom of choice for women is the road to doom and moral decline of a society, that women, once given the freedom of choice and economic freedom, will desert their husbands at the slightest whim, because "women are irrational and often overcome by emotions".
But fact is, the majority of women only leave their husbands if life has become completely unbearable for them. They try and try again like a hamster in a wheel to make their relationships and families work before finally giving up. And often they only give up inside, still functioning in the outside world, but dying inside out of physical and mental exhaustion and of a complete drying out of their souls. There are many women in this world -- no matter whether in the "bad West" or in Islamic countries -- who are being solely responsible for their children since the husbands have disappeared and couldn't care less about their duty to care for their wife and offspring. There are women who are the sole financial providers of their families, yet their husbands keep demanding that they run all of the household, serve them and take care of the children, because of his supposed role as *leader of the family*, because he feels taking care of those things would be *beneath* him. There are women who keep up with this, who go to work for eight or nine hours a day, come home and cook dinner, iron clothes, help their kids with homework, clean the house etc., while their husbands are not doing half of it, yet expect to be served!
We keep reading in *Islamic* texts that the husband has to be "the leader of the family", that a woman can't be trusted with that responsibility, that he is the one to make important decisions, "to keep her on the straight path" and so on and so forth. But most of my personal observations contradict this statement -- so do several studies on the issue, such as the experiment with microbankig in Bangladesh by Muhammad Yunus, which I've posted about on here before.
It seems that -- generally speaking -- women tend to act more responsibly when it comes to holding a relationship or a family together. It also seems that women handle finances more carefully and try to make sure there will be as much benefit as possible for everyone involved -- themselves, their family and their community. So I will never believe the strange theory that the man has to be the one making important decisions and taking charge of things because women supposedly are not capable of this and need to be controlled, watched and morally *led*.
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: It seems to me when a person gives an opinion of something they think; like having slaves and raping them is wrong then people think they are speaking against Islam. Or if you voice that you think having sex with a child is wrong, then you are accused of being against Islam. Is this what Islam is? It sure is confusing to me.
Yes, it is confusing, but it's actually quite simple. Do you really believe a merciful, loving and forgiving God would want us to have sex with children, to own slaves and rape them? Can you imagine God actually created one gender superior and wants the other to be suppressed and sacrificing? I don't, and no words from any human being can change that.
quote: I am offended on a regular basis with respect to how women are degraded on ES. It seems that no one notices or cares how women are demeaned on this site. Yet dare not say any thing that may offend "a man".
That's how I feel. I am also regularly offended or feeling deeply disgusted by some of the statements regarding women here, that's why I keep saying what I'm saying. I am used to the insults and the attempts to intimidate me because I dare criticizing the words of men. It doesn't bother or frighten me, but I think it's sad that no honest, intelligent and respectful discussion about this subject seems to be possible on here.
quote: I thought men were suppose to be the stronger ones. Honestly when I look around, what I see mostly are strong women and weak men.
Exactly, that's what I was talking about above. I also find it interesting that in most cases the very same men who claim that they are the superior and more rational gender etc. pp. tend to be very emotional, aggressive and illogical.
quote: PI, I see strength in you. Just wanted to let you know that I see it, for what it's worth.
posted
Great post Dalia...I enjoyed seeing your passion from a more human, emotional side! I have always APPRECIATED your intellect and strength and to have seen your emotion in the above post further broadened my appreciation for you....Keep fighting the good fight girlfriend!
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: I see this as an attack on Loved One because she views her marriage unlike some other women.
It's attack on her because she did not say anything to cause such feedback.
She simply stated she supports good attitude, and wanted to share her feeling about it.
I as a Muslim woman haven never been tretead in the way described, and despite such fact I haven't found what Loved One explained as offensive.
She had never said that she is supportive of mistreatment of women, yet this thread turned again into 'another stupid Muslim woman who is obedient to her husband'.
This is so unfair. We don't know how she is with her husband.
I agree this thread has been made for those who find it interesting and could benefit them.
Now it turned into attack on Muslims.( again )
It was simply diverted from "The Good Behavior" into "Islam is disrespectful towards women".
It seems to me that people might be unwilling to let Loved One speak without being attacked just because she is a Muslim.
Do you think this would take place if she said the very same thing, but she stated she is Non-Muslim? ( I don't )
With all respect, your self-pitying and the drama is totally unjustified and out of place. If you enjoy feeling like a victim, fine. But please stop blaming others for things they haven't said.
I have explained myself as best as I could in this thread, and I'm really surprised at some of the responses here. I think my posts were very clear; if you or others ignore parts of it in favour of feeling insulted or attacked I really can't help it, and I won't go around in circles, trying to explain or justify myself.
I have not said LovedOne is "another stupid Muslim woman who is obedient to her husband" or that she supports mistreatment of women, this is not what I think, and I don't see anyone else saying this.
If I had wanted to make fun of or attack her or anyone else, I would have written a sarcastic post about people who find it spiritually enlightening to read that it's recommendable to wash yourself regularly etc. If I had wanted to be malicious or spiteful, I would have suggested that women who find that sort of literature inspiring might have personal issues with masochism that need sorting out.
I have repeatedly said I find those things I talked about un-Islamic, it can hardly get any clearer. If you want to feel attacked, stereotyped or discriminated, if you want to feel I am attacking Islam and saying it suppresses women, that's your choice, but I think it's obvious to anyone with eyes to read and a brain to think that this is far from what I've been saying.
I would honestly be very interested in your answers (or LO's) to the questions I have asked repeatedly, though. To be honest, your reaction and hers completely puzzle me. I mean, it's blatantly obvious you are avoiding some of my points, but I'm not sure what that means. Do you prefer to look the other way and simply ignore those things I've quoted? Do you agree with them, i.e., do you believe your husband has the right to tell you what to do? Do you believe a man has the right to sleep with his wife, even when she does not want to? Do you believe, your partner has the right to *discipline* and beat you? Why is it that you chose to completely avoid those parts of my posts and my questions and to completely misinterpret others? Do you think you will be a lesser Muslima if you take some parts of what the author says and ignore others? What is it? I am really very puzzled , and I can't even try to imagine what's going on in your minds.
LovedOne quoted the few beautiful parts of the text in question. What does she do with the other parts? Does she ignore them? Agree with them? I'm not being facetious, I would very much like to know. But so far nobody in this or similar discussions has ever given me an answer to this. People either ignore the ugly parts, or they tell me they are correct and women are indeed inferior to men, but why would that be a problem, it's what "Allah intended" ... or they tell me they are not supposed to mean what they mean. Like one of our members who just tried to convince me in another thread that a quote like "men are better than women in and of themselves" does not mean what it very obviously does, that I might have a problem with comprehension of texts if I see it that way etc.
Anyway ... I see a lot of anger here and a lot of attempted attacks on me, and I'm wondering what this is all about.
As I said before, I did not attack anyone personally, neither did I mean to ruin this thread, which, I think, was a lovely idea we all could benefit from if we cared to take some of the advice on here seriously.
We all know this board is a merciless place, and if we post something that really means something to us, we might get attacked or ridiculed for it. Now again, I did not attack LO for what she originally posted, I thought it was very nice, and I posted some verses that, in my understanding, said the same thing.
I did, however, post a negative opinion about the book she took those quotes from. But, as I said before, I explained in detail what I find objectionable and why, and if you're not prepared to respond to criticism and don't have the emotional and intellectual maturity to deal with negative responses in a good way, you better not post here.
We're a diverse group here, there are huge differences in age, cultural upbringing, comprehension of language etc. Often we are having discussions with people whom we would never encounter in real life. So of course we can't all find the same things appealing and inspiring and there are bound to be huge differences of opinion. I'm sure many people on here would find the books on spirituality or philosophy etc. I am currently reading strange or silly or whatever. Likewise, I do not find texts like the one we discussed appealing to me personally at all.
Apart from the slightly patronizing language and the contained misogynism, the author's words just don't touch my heart or appeal to my emotions or my intellect at all. I don't feel I need to read about eating properly, exercising and paying attention to proper personal hygiene ... I've always believed that our bodies are a gift from the creator and we should treat them accordingly.
Also, I don't really find all those description of how to act and deal with others etc. inspiring. I don't see much benefit in being told not to lie, cheat, to be kind and patient with your family, friends, neighbours etc. It's something I try to do anyway although I'm well aware I often fail in this ... as most of us do. But I believe as long as we are being conscious of our thoughts and actions and try to observe, question and improve them, we are on the right way.
I can see why people might find things like that inspiring though, and that's fine! But to me many of those points are oblivious. I believe that any person who is at peace with him- or herself, who keeps trying to become a better person, who believes in justice, love, divine mercy etc. will *automatically* display those attitudes and behaviour described.
And, most importantly, the author's derogatory and disgusting statements about women and relationships in general simply make it impossible for me to take him seriously or ever accept him as a spirtual mentor or someone I could learn anything from.
I believe the person who started this thread has not disappeared because of the supposed merciless attacks of others, because of being belittled or intimidated etc. I would rather assume she is being embarrassed because her own strategy has backfired on her. She has tried to ridicule me by suggesting I might have personal issues and that's why I don't like the book we were talking about here. But now more people have stated that they can't relate to this text and find it offending, so this argument has become kind of obsolete.
Also, instead of taking to her own advice and being patient and kind, she got facetious and tried to attack me, which is a bit hypocritical, given the fact that she was the one who started this thread with the intention to make people become more aware of how they treat others.
Honestly, I can't get my head around this. If I'm really convinced of something I posted, if I am honestly standing behind the author's opinions, I should be able to defend and explain them to others. But getting aggressive and attacking the people who don't agree with it and then crying wolf that I'm being *discriminated* is just bizarre imo.
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You're a real piece of work Dalia. I am not embarrassed about what I said and there was no strategy. You said you didn't like the book and I said that was your problem. The statement seems simple enough to understand to me. You are not Muslim and don't understand the beauty of Islam and the details that the book was explaining, and until you drop your extreme feminism and open your mind and heart, it will continue to be beyond you. I didn't reply earlier because it's generally a waste of time to reply to both you and Ayisha, you are two of a kind, but I'm tired of your pot shots against me. Grow up already.
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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Saying that I don't believe a husband has the right to beat, rape and dominate his wife is *extreme feminism*?
Saying that "a woman was barely qualified to wipe the dust from her husband's feet with her face" is a statement that shows *the beauty of Islam*? Can you explain to me where there is beauty and divine mercy in this statement?
quote: Grow up already.
I did. That's exactly why I object to men claiming I should be treated like a retard or a child, as the author of said text does. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: You're a real piece of work Dalia.
The statement seems simple enough to understand to me.
it's generally a waste of time to reply to both you and Ayisha
Life sometimes imposes on a Muslim woman the burden of having to live or mix with women whom she does not like, such as living in the same house with one of her in-laws or other women with whom she has nothing in common and does not get along well. ... How should the Muslim woman who has received a sound Islamic education conduct herself in such a situation? Should she be negative in her dealings, judgements and reactions, or should she be gentle, tactful, fair and wise, even with those whom she does not like?
... the Muslim woman who is truly guided by Islam should be fair, wise, gentle and tactful. She should not expose her true feelings towards those she dislikes, or expose her cold feelings towards them in the way she behaves towards them and reacts to them. She should greet such women warmly, treat them gently and speak softly to them. This is the attitude adopted by the Prophet (PBUH) and his Companions. Abu'l-Darda' (RAA) said:
"We smile at people even if in our hearts we are cursing them."52 `Urwah ibn al-Zubayr reported that `A'ishah told him: "A man sought permission to enter upon the Prophet (PBUH), and he said, `Let him in, what a bad son of his tribe (or bad brother of his tribe) he is!' When the man came in, the Prophet (PBUH) spoke to him kindly and gently. I said: `O Messenger of Allah, you said what you said, then you spoke to him kindly.' He said, `O `A'ishah, the worst of the people in the sight of Allah (SWT) is the one who is shunned by others or whom people treat nicely because they fear his sharp tongue.'"53 Being companionable, friendly and kind towards people are among the attributes of believing men and women. Being humble, speaking gently and avoiding harshness are approaches that make people like one another and draw closer to one another, as enjoined by Islam, which encourages Muslims to adopt these attitudes in their dealings with others.
The true Muslim woman is not swayed by her emotions when it comes to love and hate. She is moderate, objective, fair and realistic in her treatment and opinions of those woman whom she does not like, and allows herself to be governed by her reason, religion, chivalry and good attitude. She does not bear witness except to the truth, and she does not judge except with justice, following the example of the Mothers of the Believers, who were the epitome of fairness, justice and taqwa in their opinions of one another.
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: You're a real piece of work Dalia. I am not embarrassed about what I said and there was no strategy. You said you didn't like the book and I said that was your problem. The statement seems simple enough to understand to me. You are not Muslim and don't understand the beauty of Islam and the details that the book was explaining, and until you drop your extreme feminism and open your mind and heart, it will continue to be beyond you. I didn't reply earlier because it's generally a waste of time to reply to both you and Ayisha, you are two of a kind, but I'm tired of your pot shots against me. Grow up already.
Mashaa Allah the response to Dalia was nice, short, sweet and simple. Oh and straight to the point.
I basically say what you said all the time but they just don't get it:
quote:The statement seems simple enough to understand to me. You are not Muslim and don't understand the beauty of Islam and the details that the book was explaining, and until you drop your extreme feminism and open your mind and heart, it will continue to be beyond you. I didn't reply earlier because it's generally a waste of time to reply to both you and Ayisha,
Maybe now they will Ya Rabb!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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Dalia*, thank you for your response to my post above. It was well written and I agree.
For the record, I have not seen you take "pot shots" at anyone on this thread. Nor have I seen you say anything against Islam, but then again, I must admit that I don't fully understand Islam. IF degrading women is Islam, then yes I have seen you speak against it.
The only explanation that I can see for them taking offense is a different thought processes. If a persons thought process is concrete then possibly when you disagree with something they believe to be correct then you have offended them.
They obviously feel that what is described in the book about women IS Islam, so in essence we unaware have insulted Islam by saying that we think women should not be treated like that. Clear cut, black and white, no abstract thought.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Excellent post Dalia as always. Such a shame the ones posting against you cant see that, but possible they didnt bother to read it.
LovedOne, you and sands have shown 'how to treat others' in your replies here. Dalia may not be a professed Muslim but I am and its understandable that it must be a real thorn in the side to have someone of intelligence like Dalia who can see how Islam was really intended to be instead of how the man made scholar books portray it.
It is often easier for someone looking from the outside to see how things really are then it is from someone looking from the inside, so to speak. Like saying 'you cant see the wood for the trees'.
Of_gold. This book thats being refered to here is only one mans 'interpretation' of what he thinks Islam is. Dalia has again poked holes in it and refered to Quran. The others here who are defending the book against Dalia have to resort to insults to back themselves up, Dalia never does that. They know she is right if they know anything about Quran, but they would never say that. They will stick together even if they are wrong. Anyone who had an inkling about Islam would see what Dalia posted is correct in reference to Quran, but Islam for the majority is not based on Quran anymore.
What you see here is not Islam.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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LovedOne, you and sands have shown 'how to treat others' in your replies here.
I see you have a problem with Muslims being straight to the point huh?
quote:Dalia may not be a professed Muslim
Professed Muslim NOT only is she NOT a PROFESSED Muslim, she (Dalia) isn't a Muslim. No need to sugarcoat it. We Muslimeen are NOT going to let a NON-MUSLIM intellegent or not come and tell us what Islaam is or should be. That would just be plain stupid.
quote:but I am
It has already been established that you may Profess to be Muslim..but your beliefs are outside of Islam, therefore putting you Outside of Islam wa Allahu ta'ala Alim.
quote:its understandable that it must be a real thorn in the side to have someone of intelligence like Dalia who can see how Islam was really intended to be
If she was as intellegent as you support her and make her out to be concerning Islaam then logic and reasoning would be that she embraces Islaam, professes Islaam and practice Islaam in her intellegent free-thinking way and Profess to be a Muslim like you and be one of the few the proud the Quraniyoon!
It is obvious by her actions and NOT her intellegent statements that she hasn't accept Islaam and became a Muslim. No matter how wonderful she may see Islaam in your intellegent way. She is still a Kaffir! Now that and a quarter i.e. 25 cents will buy you a cup of coffee.
BTW the saying is: You can't see the forrest for (because of) the trees. Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: It seems to me when a person gives an opinion of something they think; like having slaves and raping them is wrong then people think they are speaking against Islam. Or if you voice that you think having sex with a child is wrong, then you are accused of being against Islam. Is this what Islam is? It sure is confusing to me.
Yes, it is confusing, but it's actually quite simple. Do you really believe a merciful, loving and forgiving God would want us to have sex with children, to own slaves and rape them? Can you imagine God actually created one gender superior and wants the other to be suppressed and sacrificing? I don't, and no words from any human being can change that.
Muhammad, a 7th century man, had a different understanding of God than you have. If you disagree with his understanding of God, maybe Islam is not for you. Simple as that.
Imagine if I converted to Hinduism and tried to convience the Hindus that their beliefs are misunderstood because in your own words "I Can not imagine God being like that". There would be no point in arguing with them, and in trying to reform their beliefs so that they conformed to mine, to MY understanding of God. That would be ridiculous.
God is one, but every religion has a different understanding of God. If you want to discuss God fine, but we are discussing about Allah here, the God of Islam.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
sands, no I dont have any problem with muslims or anyone else being straight to the point, i do have a problem with the continued insults from those claiming they and their 'sects' are being insulted.
Whether Dalia has professed Islam or not is not your or my concern, thats between her and God. She may in His 'eyes' be a much better one than you or I, or the whole of the ummah put together!
It has been established by the council of sands that you claim to be God and have decided I am not muslim. As above, that is between me and God, not you. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you are NOT GOD.
My beliefs may be outside what you and your scholars have claimed to be Islam, but they are not outside what God said is Islam. I care not a jot that the 'majority' follow man made rules, I care only for the rules of God.
Again in your last statement you are relying on YOUR version of Islam that Dalia must accept or she is not muslim, and again thats between her and God.
I bear witness that there is no God but God. Dalia also agrees that statement. Its you and your 'sects' that add anything to that.
BTW it may be 'forest' in USA, but its 'wood' in UK.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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