posted
If a low C is played on a bass guitar, do you believe it is heard the same way when listened to by a person of high melanin content versus a person of low melanin density? Or, do you believe melanin density has no bearing on sensitivity in the audio spectrum?
quote: In the rain forests of Brazil and Africa there are natives who've lived there for thousands of years. These areas are heavily covered and they see little sunlight. Yet, after thousands of years they've retained their melanin density.
^ Using native Americans to attempt to confound the biology of skin color is a well known ruse.
Native Americans have extremely complex migration histories, [South Asia, to Bering Straight Artic America, and thence to South American rainforest, as just a -partial- example] and their skin color can thus not be easily predicated based on where they are found now.
Also some South American Indians are very dark, and some are very light.
This can't help you defend your mystical pseudo-theories of melanin.
Bottom line:
You traffic is pseudoscience for the scientifically illiterate suckers. Anything else?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: In the rain forests of Brazil and Africa there are natives who've lived there for thousands of years. These areas are heavily covered and they see little sunlight. Yet, after thousands of years they've retained their melanin density.
^ Using native Americans to attempt to confound the biology of skin color is a well known ruse.
Native Americans have extremely complex migration histories, [South Asia, to Bering Straight Artic America, and thence to South American rainforest, as just a -partial- example] and their skin color can thus not be easily predicated based on where they are found now.
Also some South American Indians are very dark, and some are very light.
This can't help you defend your mystical pseudo-theories of melanin.
Bottom line:
You traffic is pseudoscience for the scientifically illiterate suckers. Anything else?
LOL, I don't see where I mentioned Native Americans in my post. I understand your need to redirect, but I specifically mentioned Brazil and Africa. LMBAO !!!
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Role of Melanin in Photoprotection of the Skin TOP INTRODUCTION Overview: Architecture of the... Biochemical Considerations Developmental Considerations Regulation of Constitutive Skin... Regulation of Facultative Skin... Role of Melanin in... Disrupted Regulation of Skin... Approaches to Regulating Skin... REFERENCES
Lightly pigmented skin has a dramatically increased risk of skin cancers, including melanomas, much higher (15–70-fold) than in darker skin (38, 39). Because skin pigmentation is primarily regulated by the MC1R, its gene is considered a susceptibility gene for melanoma (40).
UV is harmful to human skin because of its production of various types of cellular damage, most notably oxidative damage and two major types of DNA damage: cyclobutane pyrimidine dimers and 6,4-photoproducts (41). Such molecular lesions have significant long-term effects on tissue if not repaired quickly and correctly. There is increasing evidence that DNA damage/repair itself can induce skin pigmentation. Small DNA fragments, such as thymine dinucleotides, enhance pigmentation of melanocytic cells and can stimulate TYR mRNA levels and responses to MSH (42). p53, which regulates the cell cycle and the repair of DNA damage, as well as the induction of apoptosis (32), can also up-regulate POMC/MSH expression by keratinocytes in response to UV, thereby inducing pigmentation (35).
The involvement of MC1R with UV induction of skin pigmentation is complex and is regulated at many levels (43). MC1R regulates melanocyte function primarily via MITF, which in turn regulates melanogenesis and dendricity. MITF expression is stimulated relatively quickly, and significant increases are seen within 1 day of UV exposure. The downstream targets of MITF, e.g. TYR, Pmel17, and DCT, respond more slowly and reach maxima from 1–3 weeks after UV exposure. It takes several weeks after UV exposure before significant increases in melanin synthesis or melanocyte density occur. In addition to its role in pigmentation, MC1R regulates many other properties of melanocytes, such as the activation of DNA repair and other anti-photocarcinogenic activities that are important for protection against the deleterious effects of UV (44). Although UV increases expression of melanogenic genes similarly in skin of different racial/ethnic groups (29), there are some significant differences including melanin redistribution, protection against DNA damage, and induction of apoptosis in melanin-containing keratinocytes (21, 45). UV stimulates the transfer of melanin from the lower epidermis upward and prevents DNA damage in the lower epidermis more significantly in dark skin than in fair skin (29, 45). UV induces significantly more apoptosis in dark skin than in fair skin, which suggests a more efficient removal of UV-damaged cells; this may play a role in the decreased photocarcinogenesis of darker skin.
Note the different levels of UV penetration which explains why blacks absorb and convert UV->Vitamin D and why long term, irreparable cellular damage is highly likely in whites.
Reference: UV-induced DNA damage and melanin content in human skin differing in racial/ethnic origin.
Taketsugu Tadokoro, Nobuhiko Kobayashi, Barbara Z. Zmudzka, Shosuke Ito, Kazumasa Wakamatsu, Yuji Yamaguchi, Katalin S. Korossy, Sharon A. Miller, Janusz Z. Beer, and Vincent J. Hearing, National Institute Of Health, 2003
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:LOL, I don't see where I mentioned Native Americans in my post.
I believe you when you say 'you don't see' -> since it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about.
quote: I understand your need to redirect, but I specifically mentioned Brazil and Africa. LMBAO !!!
^ ->
quote:In the rain forests of Brazil and Africa there are natives who've lived there for thousands of years
A native of the rain-forest of Brazil is a Native American.
Native American A member of any of the indigenous peoples of the Western Hemisphere. The ancestors of the Native Americans are generally considered by scientists to have entered the Americas from Asia by way of the Bering Strait sometime during the late glacial epoch.
As for "LMBAO" - I suggest you do less laughing, more reading. The only one redirecting is you.
Go back and answer my questions and list the peer reviewed scientific studies that can support any of your drivel.
Oh, sorry, there isn't any, so it won't happen. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
^See above. I must have been speaking in BASS tones and you didn't hear me. Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
^ You must be babbling like and idiot, because I don't understand you.
The study cited below is all true.
But has nothing whatsoever to do with any of your ridiculous claims:
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Role of Melanin in Photoprotection of the Skin TOP INTRODUCTION Overview: Architecture of the... Biochemical Considerations Developmental Considerations Regulation of Constitutive Skin... Regulation of Facultative Skin... Role of Melanin in... Disrupted Regulation of Skin... Approaches to Regulating Skin... REFERENCES
Lightly pigmented skin has a dramatically increased risk of skin cancers, including melanomas, much higher (15–70-fold) than in darker skin (38, 39). Because skin pigmentation is primarily regulated by the MC1R, its gene is considered a susceptibility gene for melanoma (40).
UV is harmful to human skin because of its production of various types of cellular damage, most notably oxidative damage and two major types of DNA damage: cyclobutane pyrimidine dimers and 6,4-photoproducts (41). Such molecular lesions have significant long-term effects on tissue if not repaired quickly and correctly. There is increasing evidence that DNA damage/repair itself can induce skin pigmentation. Small DNA fragments, such as thymine dinucleotides, enhance pigmentation of melanocytic cells and can stimulate TYR mRNA levels and responses to MSH (42). p53, which regulates the cell cycle and the repair of DNA damage, as well as the induction of apoptosis (32), can also up-regulate POMC/MSH expression by keratinocytes in response to UV, thereby inducing pigmentation (35).
The involvement of MC1R with UV induction of skin pigmentation is complex and is regulated at many levels (43). MC1R regulates melanocyte function primarily via MITF, which in turn regulates melanogenesis and dendricity. MITF expression is stimulated relatively quickly, and significant increases are seen within 1 day of UV exposure. The downstream targets of MITF, e.g. TYR, Pmel17, and DCT, respond more slowly and reach maxima from 1–3 weeks after UV exposure. It takes several weeks after UV exposure before significant increases in melanin synthesis or melanocyte density occur. In addition to its role in pigmentation, MC1R regulates many other properties of melanocytes, such as the activation of DNA repair and other anti-photocarcinogenic activities that are important for protection against the deleterious effects of UV (44). Although UV increases expression of melanogenic genes similarly in skin of different racial/ethnic groups (29), there are some significant differences including melanin redistribution, protection against DNA damage, and induction of apoptosis in melanin-containing keratinocytes (21, 45). UV stimulates the transfer of melanin from the lower epidermis upward and prevents DNA damage in the lower epidermis more significantly in dark skin than in fair skin (29, 45). UV induces significantly more apoptosis in dark skin than in fair skin, which suggests a more efficient removal of UV-damaged cells; this may play a role in the decreased photocarcinogenesis of darker skin.
Reference: UV-induced DNA damage and melanin content in human skin differing in racial/ethnic origin.
Taketsugu Tadokoro, Nobuhiko Kobayashi, Barbara Z. Zmudzka, Shosuke Ito, Kazumasa Wakamatsu, Yuji Yamaguchi, Katalin S. Korossy, Sharon A. Miller, Janusz Z. Beer, and Vincent J. Hearing, National Institute Of Health, 2003
How does this help you prove that lighter pigmentation cannot aid vitamin D synthesis?
That must be in the 'appendix' of the study, because it sure isn't in the citation.
lol@ antics of pseudoscience trying to fake-up some support for its far fetched fantasies.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Note the different levels of UV penetration which explains why blacks absorb and convert UV->Vitamin D and why long term, irreparable cellular damage is highly likely in whites.
^
Question: Where does -the study- you are citing say this?
Answer: Nowhere.
Question: How come you need to append your drivel to a study which says no such thing?
Answer: Because you can't find such nonsense in and actual scientific study.
Melanin has no role in vitamin D synthesis - which is why nothing is mentioned with regards to it in the study you cited.
Melanin merely blocks UV.
In order to synthesize vitamin D UV must contact the skin cells.
This is why skin with less melanin blocking sunlight can synthesize more vitamin D.
However this is at the cost of exposing the skin to more radiation.
Hence there is a tradeoff.
This is why skin color varies in individuals and groups.
This is the scientific concensus.
The study you presented confirms this, and in no way refutes it.
The only 'refutation' comes by way of your scientifically illiterate drivel which has nothing to do with what was cited.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
^ The question is not regarding vitamin D conversion. The question is, are Whites indigenous to Europe. Clearly in most parts of the world, white are exposed to an environmentally hostile environment supporting the conclusion;
1) Whites are not indigenous to Europe (USA, Australia, and other high UV regions) OR 2) Whites are victims of long term genetic damage and are severe mutations relative to the other 80% of the world's populations.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Note the different levels of UV penetration which explains why blacks absorb and convert UV->Vitamin D and why long term, irreparable cellular damage is highly likely in whites.
^ Where does -the study- you are citing say this?
How come you need to append your drivel to a study which says no such thing?
Melanin has no role in vitamin D synthesis - which is why nothing is mentioned with regards to it in the study you cited.
Melanin merely blocks UV.
In order to synthesize vitamin D UV must contact the skin cells.
This is why skin with less melanin blocking sunlight can synthesize more vitamin D.
However this is at the cost of exposing the skin to more radiation.
Hence there is a tradeoff.
This is why skin color varies in individuals and groups.
This is the scientific concensus.
The study you presented confirms this, and in no way refutes it.
The only 'refutation' comes by way of your scientifically illiterate drivel which has nothing to do with what was cited.
Melanin does not "block" sunlight. Like all black body objects, it ABSORBS rather then REFLECTS radiation. It is WHITE skin that REFLECTS (lower level energy) and is damaged by higher level radiation which passes through the Stratum corneuim, Granular, Spiney, and Basal protective layers going on to damage vital cells.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:The question is not regarding vitamin D conversion.
Then, don't lie about it: explains why blacks absorb and convert UV->Vitamin
^ This just shows that when you are called on your far fetched claims, you run away and change the subject. In doing so, you tacitly admit that you know your claims are phony.
ie ->
quote:The question is, are Whites indigenous to Europe.
No, that's a different question, which has already been answered, and which your citation has absolutely no bearing on.
quote:The question is not regarding vitamin D conversion.
Then, don't lie about it: explains why blacks absorb and convert UV->Vitamin
^ This just shows that when you are called on your far fetched claims, you run away and change the subject. In doing so, you tacitly admit that you know your claims are phony.
ie ->
quote:The question is, are Whites indigenous to Europe.
No, that's a different question, which has already been answered, and which your citation has absolutely no bearing on.
Keep spinning....
You can look this up yourself in Wiki. Take note of the above posted figure illustrating UV absorption layers in blacks vs whites above.
Production in the skin The epidermal strata of the skin. Production is greatest in the stratum basale (colored red in the illustration) and stratum spinosum (colored orange). The epidermal strata of the skin. Production is greatest in the stratum basale (colored red in the illustration) and stratum spinosum (colored orange).
The skin consists of two primary layers: the inner layer called the dermis, composed largely of connective tissue, and the outer, thinner epidermis. The epidermis consists of five strata; from outer to inner they are: the stratum corneum, stratum lucidum, stratum granulosum, stratum spinosum, and stratum basale.
Vitamin D3 is produced photochemically in the skin from 7-dehydrocholesterol. The highest concentrations of 7-dehydrocholesterol are found in the epidermal layer of skin, specifically in the stratum basale and stratum spinosum.[7] The production of pre-vitamin D3 is therefore greatest in these two layers, whereas production in the other layers is less.
Synthesis in the skin involves UVB radiation which effectively penetrates only the epidermal layers of skin. While 7-Dehydrocholesterol absorbs UV light at wavelengths between 270–300 nm, optimal synthesis occurs in a narrow band of UVB spectra between 295-300 nm. Peak isomerization is found at 297 nm. This narrow segment is sometimes referred to as D-UV.[8] The two most important factors that govern the generation of pre-vitamin D3 are the quantity (intensity) and quality (appropriate wavelength) of the UVB irradiation reaching the 7-dehydrocholesterol deep in the stratum basale and stratum spinosum.[7]
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
^ Did you actually bother *to read* that article:
Individuals with higher skin melanin content will require more time in sunlight to produce the same amount of vitamin D as individuals with lower melanin content
^ Please explain to the forum what part of this you do not understand?
Then explain what part of this, you do not understand:
Hahaha....You made me laugh with this one. Is this a high school paper? LOL
Here. Melanin will display the characteristics of any other black body object. This is why WHITES call it a BLACK hole, because like any black body object, it ABSORBS all radiation. A black hole doesn't block or reflect squat. Simple physics 101, also common sense and why your grandmother told you to wear white on extreme sunny days to stay cool.
posted
HOLY SH1T Meninarmer!! You have this down to a science. I knew about the manic depression frequency and the mental state but . . . .coordination . You saying low malanin is related NO SOUL(dancing). Just kidding
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: ^Susceptibility to wide spread skin cancer and melanoma state otherwise.
In the rain forests of Brazil and Africa there are natives who've lived there for thousands of years. These areas are heavily covered and they see little sunlight. Yet, after thousands of years they've retained their melanin density. Their having a vitamin D rich diet has nothing to do with their melanin density.
White skin, Yellow/Hazel/Green/blue eyes, hairy bodies, excessive manic depression, impotence, insomnia, are all traits of recessive genes dealing with melanin production
Remember, all genes are coated with melanin to capture and absorb free radicals protecting genes from mutation. What happens when this coating is absent or severely diluted? Ongoing Gene damage from solar radiation resulting in mutated development, IE, Leprosy/Albinoism (little or no radiation protection), Impotence (low birth rate), lack of coordination (timing), psychological neuromelanin imbalance (Manic Depression), High birth defect rate (defective reproduction system), rapid aging (result of solar radiation damage), hearing limited to upper frequencies-treble (less melanin in ear cavities).
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Role of Melanin in Photoprotection of the Skin TOP INTRODUCTION Overview: Architecture of the... Biochemical Considerations Developmental Considerations Regulation of Constitutive Skin... Regulation of Facultative Skin... Role of Melanin in... Disrupted Regulation of Skin... Approaches to Regulating Skin... REFERENCES
Lightly pigmented skin has a dramatically increased risk of skin cancers, including melanomas, much higher (15–70-fold) than in darker skin (38, 39). Because skin pigmentation is primarily regulated by the MC1R, its gene is considered a susceptibility gene for melanoma (40).
UV is harmful to human skin because of its production of various types of cellular damage, most notably oxidative damage and two major types of DNA damage: cyclobutane pyrimidine dimers and 6,4-photoproducts (41). Such molecular lesions have significant long-term effects on tissue if not repaired quickly and correctly. There is increasing evidence that DNA damage/repair itself can induce skin pigmentation. Small DNA fragments, such as thymine dinucleotides, enhance pigmentation of melanocytic cells and can stimulate TYR mRNA levels and responses to MSH (42). p53, which regulates the cell cycle and the repair of DNA damage, as well as the induction of apoptosis (32), can also up-regulate POMC/MSH expression by keratinocytes in response to UV, thereby inducing pigmentation (35).
The involvement of MC1R with UV induction of skin pigmentation is complex and is regulated at many levels (43). MC1R regulates melanocyte function primarily via MITF, which in turn regulates melanogenesis and dendricity. MITF expression is stimulated relatively quickly, and significant increases are seen within 1 day of UV exposure. The downstream targets of MITF, e.g. TYR, Pmel17, and DCT, respond more slowly and reach maxima from 1–3 weeks after UV exposure. It takes several weeks after UV exposure before significant increases in melanin synthesis or melanocyte density occur. In addition to its role in pigmentation, MC1R regulates many other properties of melanocytes, such as the activation of DNA repair and other anti-photocarcinogenic activities that are important for protection against the deleterious effects of UV (44). Although UV increases expression of melanogenic genes similarly in skin of different racial/ethnic groups (29), there are some significant differences including melanin redistribution, protection against DNA damage, and induction of apoptosis in melanin-containing keratinocytes (21, 45). UV stimulates the transfer of melanin from the lower epidermis upward and prevents DNA damage in the lower epidermis more significantly in dark skin than in fair skin (29, 45). UV induces significantly more apoptosis in dark skin than in fair skin, which suggests a more efficient removal of UV-damaged cells; this may play a role in the decreased photocarcinogenesis of darker skin.
Note the different levels of UV penetration which explains why blacks absorb and convert UV->Vitamin D and why long term, irreparable cellular damage is highly likely in whites.
Reference: UV-induced DNA damage and melanin content in human skin differing in racial/ethnic origin.
Taketsugu Tadokoro, Nobuhiko Kobayashi, Barbara Z. Zmudzka, Shosuke Ito, Kazumasa Wakamatsu, Yuji Yamaguchi, Katalin S. Korossy, Sharon A. Miller, Janusz Z. Beer, and Vincent J. Hearing, National Institute Of Health, 2003
quote:Melanin will display the characteristics of any other black body object. This is why WHITES call it a BLACK hole, because like any black body object, it ABSORBS all radiation.
^ Again how does this help you? No one is debating whether the color black absorbs light. The point is that in doing so, light is prevented from reaching the skin. The light is thus blocked in the same sense that clouds block the sun...in the same sense that the moon blocks sunlight during and eclipse.
Once the light is blocked from reaching skin cells the ability of the skin to synthesis vitamin D from the light is so reduced.
Your -own source- just stated this.
How do you respond?
You ignore it and try to change the subject.
You can't even address *your own source*.
Individuals with higher skin melanin content will require more time in sunlight to produce the same amount of vitamin D as individuals with lower melanin content
You're just another defeated troll with a busted argument and phony ideology who can't admit when he's wrong.
posted
Funny/stupid that a people that FEAR the sun want to lay claim to a civilzation that WORSHIPS the sun. Don't they see all the pics with the AE running around half-naked in the sun. Can they picture themselve doing that. . .maybe they do?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Role of Melanin in Photoprotection of the Skin TOP INTRODUCTION Overview: Architecture of the... Biochemical Considerations Developmental Considerations Regulation of Constitutive Skin... Regulation of Facultative Skin... Role of Melanin in... Disrupted Regulation of Skin... Approaches to Regulating Skin... REFERENCES
Lightly pigmented skin has a dramatically increased risk of skin cancers, including melanomas, much higher (15–70-fold) than in darker skin (38, 39). Because skin pigmentation is primarily regulated by the MC1R, its gene is considered a susceptibility gene for melanoma (40).
UV is harmful to human skin because of its production of various types of cellular damage, most notably oxidative damage and two major types of DNA damage: cyclobutane pyrimidine dimers and 6,4-photoproducts (41). Such molecular lesions have significant long-term effects on tissue if not repaired quickly and correctly. There is increasing evidence that DNA damage/repair itself can induce skin pigmentation. Small DNA fragments, such as thymine dinucleotides, enhance pigmentation of melanocytic cells and can stimulate TYR mRNA levels and responses to MSH (42). p53, which regulates the cell cycle and the repair of DNA damage, as well as the induction of apoptosis (32), can also up-regulate POMC/MSH expression by keratinocytes in response to UV, thereby inducing pigmentation (35).
The involvement of MC1R with UV induction of skin pigmentation is complex and is regulated at many levels (43). MC1R regulates melanocyte function primarily via MITF, which in turn regulates melanogenesis and dendricity. MITF expression is stimulated relatively quickly, and significant increases are seen within 1 day of UV exposure. The downstream targets of MITF, e.g. TYR, Pmel17, and DCT, respond more slowly and reach maxima from 1–3 weeks after UV exposure. It takes several weeks after UV exposure before significant increases in melanin synthesis or melanocyte density occur. In addition to its role in pigmentation, MC1R regulates many other properties of melanocytes, such as the activation of DNA repair and other anti-photocarcinogenic activities that are important for protection against the deleterious effects of UV (44). Although UV increases expression of melanogenic genes similarly in skin of different racial/ethnic groups (29), there are some significant differences including melanin redistribution, protection against DNA damage, and induction of apoptosis in melanin-containing keratinocytes (21, 45). UV stimulates the transfer of melanin from the lower epidermis upward and prevents DNA damage in the lower epidermis more significantly in dark skin than in fair skin (29, 45). UV induces significantly more apoptosis in dark skin than in fair skin, which suggests a more efficient removal of UV-damaged cells; this may play a role in the decreased photocarcinogenesis of darker skin.
Note the different levels of UV penetration which explains why blacks absorb and convert UV->Vitamin D and why long term, irreparable cellular damage is highly likely in whites.
Reference: UV-induced DNA damage and melanin content in human skin differing in racial/ethnic origin.
Taketsugu Tadokoro, Nobuhiko Kobayashi, Barbara Z. Zmudzka, Shosuke Ito, Kazumasa Wakamatsu, Yuji Yamaguchi, Katalin S. Korossy, Sharon A. Miller, Janusz Z. Beer, and Vincent J. Hearing, National Institute Of Health, 2003
This great research on melanin. Thanks.
.
yes very useful.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ Did you actually bother *to read* that article:
Individuals with higher skin melanin content will require more time in sunlight to produce the same amount of vitamin D as individuals with lower melanin content
^ Please explain to the forum what part of this you do not understand?
Then explain what part of this, you do not understand:
Can't trust everything on Wiki. As I stated earlier and easily verified by mainstream, black bodies ABSORB EVERYTHING in the form of radiation. Melanin does have magnetic properties, but not to dispel or reflect energy, but rather to capture high energy particles.
Do you understand exactly what a free radical is, or how melanin absorbs and converts it? Vitamin D isn't the issue and has nothing to do with Whites being native to Europe. Their susceptibility to European solar radiation is however, very significant.
Human skin types
Skin type Unexposed skin color Sun response I white always burns, never tans II white always burns, tans minimally III white burns minimally, sometimes tans IV light brown burns minimally, always tans well V brown rarely burns, tans darkly (Asian skins) VI dark brown never burns, tans darkly (African skins)
The same Japanese scientist above has shown that inside the melanocytes (skin pigment cells) are tiny packets called melanosomes that contain Melanin. The four stages in the maturing of these packets is what accounts for racial differences:
* Stage 1: The melanosome is empty and doesn't have the machinery to make Melanin. * Stage 2: The melanosome has the machinery to make Melanin, but is empty of Melanin. * Stage 3: The machinery is there and the melanosome is half filled with Melanin. * Stage 4: The machinery is there and the melanosome is completely filled with Melanin.
Whites have mainly stages 1 and 2, whereas all people of color have Melanin with Blacks having more of stage 4 than 3, while Latinos and Asians have more of stage 3 than 4. All people of color have "circulating Melanin," which is Melanin circulating in the blood due to spillage or excess from the melanosomes.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Yes this is the character of the bro(Rasol).. unfortunately. He either don't read and undertand or he skips through stuff and the point is loss to him. In his minds I he is right irregadless. What a shame. Imagine how we can use him with his genetic knowledge.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote: In the rain forests of Brazil and Africa there are natives who've lived there for thousands of years. These areas are heavily covered and they see little sunlight. Yet, after thousands of years they've retained their melanin density.
^ Using native Americans to attempt to confound the biology of skin color is a well known ruse.
Native Americans have extremely complex migration histories, [South Asia, to Bering Straight Artic America, and thence to South American rainforest, as just a -partial- example] and their skin color can thus not be easily predicated based on where they are found now.
Also some South American Indians are very dark, and some are very light.
This can't help you defend your mystical pseudo-theories of melanin.
Bottom line:
You traffic is pseudoscience for the scientifically illiterate suckers. Anything else?
LOL, I don't see where I mentioned Native Americans in my post. I understand your need to redirect, but I specifically mentioned Brazil and Africa. LMBAO !!!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: Again how does this help you? No one is debating whether the color black absorbs light. The point is that in doing so, light is prevented from reaching the skin. The light is thus blocked in the same sense that clouds block the sun...in the same sense that the moon blocks sunlight during and eclipse.
Once the light is blocked from reaching skin cells the ability of the skin to synthesis vitamin D from the light is so reduced.
Come on Rasol, you seem like a smart guy.
Melanin doesn't absorb UV until it strikes the skin. How can melanin BLOCK sunlight prior to reaching the epidermis? LOL, melanin closer to being described as a sponge then an umbrella. I think you are confusing natural melanin with an item in your inventory..sunscreen which is a blocking agent.
For the last time, a black body does not "block" anything. It absorbs it meaning it captures and converts energies. Some of this energy is RADIATED as heat, while some is redirected to fuel internal processes.
Europeans lack this basic protection mechanism and instead of capturing and converting these energies to heat/production, they instead invade and damage cells. This is how skin cancer begins by damaged and mutated cells that have been bombarded with high energy solar radiation.
As can be seen here, Europeans may burn minimally or they may become severely fried, but in all three skin cases, they ALL burn.
Skin type Unexposed skin color Sun response I white always burns, never tans II white always burns, tans minimally III white burns minimally, sometimes tans
In the native land of those who call themselves Europeans, they have no need for sunscreen as they do in most of the world.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Yes this is the character of the bro(Rasol).. unfortunately. He either don't read and undertand or he skips through stuff and the point is loss to him. In his minds I he is right irregadless. What a shame. Imagine how we can use him with his genetic knowledge
posted
Rasol just likes playing Devil's Advocate with passion and enthusiasm.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
^ Actually the issue is only that you're dense and can't understand anything. But i'm ignoring you so,,,,
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ Did you actually bother *to read* that article:
Individuals with higher skin melanin content will require more time in sunlight to produce the same amount of vitamin D as individuals with lower melanin content
^ Please explain to the forum what part of this you do not understand?
Then explain what part of this, you do not understand:
quote:posted by MN: [qb] [QUOTE]Melanin does not "block" sunlight.
quote:Vitamin D isn't the issue and has nothing to do with Whites being native to Europe.
So how do you propose Europeans turned pale?
Bunch of dunces still not able to understand the evolution of pale skin. Melanin is natures sun screen, without it, you're prone to sun damaging rays which can cause skin cancer etc..Yes we know this. Europeans did not evolve to have pale skin in Africa, but rather in Europe. Under darker cloudy skies Europeans evolved to produce vitamin D from synthesizing UVB. This was due to the spread of agriculture, which caused an extreme loss of Vitamin D, and NOT due to extreme cold or hot weather. In which, before agriculture, Early Europeans as explained Ad nauseum, were hunter gatherers fishers and herders who survived on already high levels of Vitamin D from this diet, but when agriculture spread their Vitamin D levels decreased drastically. Ad Nauseum!!
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:For the last time, a black body does not "block" anything. It absorbs.
For the last time - this is strawman argument because no one ever said that black did not absorb.
Rather you claim that melanin does not block sunlight from reaching the skin - which is false.
You try to argue this by stating that melanin absorbs... which is correct but non-sequitur.
I know you don't understand what a non-sequitur is so let me explain.
Non sequitur means - it does not follow.
It does not follow that because black absorbs uv radition, that it does not block UV from reaching the skin.
It most certainly does. One can block thru absorbtion, reflection, or deflection. A bumper on a car, blocks...by absorbing impact. It blocks by absorbing. It is correct to say that bumper absorbs. It is incorrect to say that it does not block, and this is where your brain is stuck.
Absorb and block are not as you wrongly imagine -opposites.
Thus the article you cited, is correct:
Individuals with higher skin melanin content will require more time in sunlight to produce the same amount of vitamin D as individuals with lower melanin content.
And you are wrong.
I don't expect you to admit to being wrong.
Pseudos never do, but rest assured that you have been utterly debunked.
It's as simple as that.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Probably because I'm just thinking out loud, but so much for your "blocking" misunderstanding.
Chlorophylls and carotenoids absorb light of certain wavelengths and help convert photonic energy into chemical energy during photosynthesis. Given that melanins can absorb visible and UV light of ALL wavelengths [16], we hypothesized that exposure to ionizing radiation would change the electronic properties of melanin and affect the growth of melanized microorganisms. Here we report the results of physico-chemical investigations of melanin electronic properties after radiation exposure and the enhanced growth of melanized fungi under conditions of radiation flux.
quote:Given that melanins can absorb visible and UV light of ALL wavelengths
^ given that no one is debating the fact that black absorbs UV, then you are prattling on like a loser while making no point at issue and running away from the central issue at hand:
Individuals with higher skin melanin content will require more time in sunlight to produce the same amount of vitamin D as individuals with lower melanin content.
^ We remind MN again, that the above is something he cited, accidentally, [ooops!] although it debunks him. And he knows this.
So just keep running, MN.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Rather you claim that melanin does not block sunlight from reaching the skin - which is false.
It does not follow that because black absorbs uv radition, that it does not block UV from reaching the skin.
OK, let's reset. I'm now understanding why you have a difficult time comprehending the Vitamin D issue.
Here is a shot of the skin...
As can clearly be observed, melanin (Melanocytes)do not reside on the surface of skin, but below. Sunlight and all it's radiation that gets past earth's atmosphere and reaches earth will strike the skin as shown in the easy to comprehend picture I posted 3-4 posts ago.
So, as you can clearly see, melanin DOES NOT block sunlight or any other light or thing from striking the uppermost region of your or anybody else's skin.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Probably because you're not thinking at all. Can you humor us with your theory of how, why, when and where whites turned pale?
Can you give me an answer of how and why Eskimos have color despite living in Extreme cold conditions? And why Europeans are pale, since Europeans are not nearly under the same cold climatic conditions as Eskimos are?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I knew about the manic depression frequency and the mental state but . . . .coordination . You saying low malanin is related NO SOUL(dancing). Just kidding
It's quite possible since melanin is used to maintain internal clock, responsible for nervous system impulse, and activates muscle twitch.
University Of Pittsburgh Human Nervous System
Substantia nigra: Large mass gray matter extending throuhout midbrain; divides cerebral peduncles into dorsal and ventral parts; easily recognized by black pigment (melanin in cytoplasm); extensive connections with cortex, spinal cord, corpus stratium and reticular formation; functions in fine control of motor function; multi-polar neurons; contain dopamine (DOPA: dihydroxyphenylalanine; precursor of dopamine and melanin) neurotransmitter causing inhibitory effects on neurons of corpus striatum; L-dopa, a dopamine precursor crosses blood-brain barrier.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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If melanin didn't block and also absorb sunlight then melanin would have no purpose, and therefore everyone would be susceptible to skin cancer regardless of Melanin. People that were living in equatorial Africa were living in a hot environment, the skin must have been able to sweat very efficiently, so that people could keep cool, and also because that skin was naked and therefore prone to sun damaging UVB, and so the skin of our ancestors was dark full of natures sunscreen MELANIN.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Probably because you're not thinking at all.
For someone who got caught stereotyping Nubians and Egyptians you are one to talk..
Africans come in all different colors shades shapes, sizes etc... are you saying all Africans look the same? By me saying Africans look different, that Africans have highest levels of genetical and phenotypical diversity, how is that stereotyping? In actuality, by you saying that I am stereotyping is idiotic, because not all indigenous Africans look the same. By me acknowledging that not all Africans look alike, I am actually debunking your proposition of a "true-negro", Dunce.
Now go back in the corner. Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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That akoben/argyle is a very very *very* sick person.
Gives me the creeps.
I must say he stands apart from the [rest of] apres-scee gang who are only a bunch of clowns at best.
Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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If melanin didn't block and also absorb sunlight then melanin would have no purpose, and therefore everyone would be susceptible to skin cancer regardless of Melanin. People that were living in equatorial Africa were living in a hot environment, the skin must have been able to sweat very efficiently, so that people could keep cool, and also because that skin was naked and therefore prone to sun damaging UVB, and so the skin of our ancestors was dark full of natures sunscreen MELANIN.
Block Block (bl[o^]k), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Blocked (bl[o^]kt); p. pr. & vb. n. Blocking.] [Cf. F. bloquer, fr. bloc block. See Block, n.] 1. To obstruct so as to prevent passage or progress; to prevent passage from, through, or into, by obstructing the way; -- used both of persons and things; -- often followed by up; as, to block up a road or harbor; to block an entrance. [1913 Webster] __________________________________________________
Absorb Ab*sorb", v. t. [imp. & p. p. Absorbed; p. pr. & vb. n. Absorbing.] [L. absorbere; ab + sorbere to suck in, akin to Gr. ?: cf. F. absorber.] 1. To swallow up; to engulf; to overwhelm; to cause to disappear as if by swallowing up; to use up; to include. "Dark oblivion soon absorbs them all." --Cowper. [1913 Webster]
See the difference?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Rather you claim that melanin does not block sunlight from reaching the skin - which is false.
It does not follow that because black absorbs uv radition, that it does not block UV from reaching the skin.
quote: MN writes: OK, let's reset. I'm now understanding why you have a difficult time comprehending the Vitamin D issue.
Here is a shot of the skin...
As can clearly be observed, melanin (Melanocytes)
^ Wrong again.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. lol.
Melanocytes are not the *same thing* as melanin. Rather they are the cells that synthesize 'melanin'. Whites have as many melanocytes as Blacks.... it's the ability of their melanocytes to produce the melanin that is impaired.
Of course the melanin resides on the surface of the skin, and is not hidden beneath it.
How else do you think you can see *black* skin?
I've never known of someone to talk so much on a subject, while completely misunderstanding it.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Africans come in all different colors shades shapes, sizes etc... are you saying all Africans look the same? By me saying Africans look different, that Africans have highest levels of genetical and phenotypical diversity, how is that stereotyping? In actuality, by you saying that I am stereotyping is idiotic, because not all indigenous Africans look the same. By me acknowledging that not all Africans look alike, I am actually debunking your proposition of a "true-negro", Dunce.
^ I said none of what you attribute me above. And you can't show it. You're as slimey as rasoliwitz, you two really deserve each other. I on the other hand provided the link to where you got called out on your BS. LOL
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Africans come in all different colors shades shapes, sizes etc... are you saying all Africans look the same? By me saying Africans look different, that Africans have highest levels of genetical and phenotypical diversity, how is that stereotyping? In actuality, by you saying that I am stereotyping is idiotic, because not all indigenous Africans look the same. By me acknowledging that not all Africans look alike, I am actually debunking your proposition of a "true-negro", Dunce.
^ I said none of what you attribute me above. And you can't show it. You're as slimey as rasoliwitz, you two really deserve each other. I on the other hand provided the link to where you got called out on your BS. LOL
I explained you're idiotic "so called, called me out" and then I asked you some questions. Do you understand what a question is? If so, then you can answer the questions below, if not then stay shut, Dunce!!
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by akoben:
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Probably because you're not thinking at all.
For someone who got caught stereotyping Nubians and Egyptians you are one to talk..
Africans come in all different colors shades shapes, sizes etc... are you saying all Africans look the same? By me saying Africans look different, that Africans have highest levels of genetical and phenotypical diversity, how is that stereotyping? In actuality, by you saying that I am stereotyping is idiotic, because not all indigenous Africans look the same. By me acknowledging that not all Africans look alike, I am actually debunking your proposition of a "true-negro", Dunce.
Now go back in the corner.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: ^^^ Glad you know how to use the dictionary.
More importantly, I understand melanin is more of an active energy conversion system versus an umbrella.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: ^^^ Glad you know how to use the dictionary.
More importantly, I understand melanin is more of an active energy conversion system versus an umbrella.
And......This has to do with Europeans turning pale because of agriculture, how?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Has nothing to do with Whites turning white due to agriculture. Has everything to do with how Europe is an UV hostile environment to whites that very likely leads or has led to genetic mutation.
As far as whites turning white due to agriculture, I know you can turn orange if you consume enough carrots. Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Has nothing to do with Whites turning white due to agriculture. Has everything to do with how Europe is an UV hostile environment to whites and leads to genetic mutation.As far as whites turning white due to agriculture, I know you can turn orange if you consume enough carrots.
Wow, agriculture caused Europeans to turn pale, because, agriculture caused Europeans to drastically lose Vitamin D, from their foregoing hunter gatherer fisher herder lifestyle, which they dropped for agriculture which left Europeans in a need for another way to absorb Vitamin D, in which they did, from cow milk which Europeans also recently developed a gene to tolerate lactose, along with the ability to produce vitamin D from synthesizing UVB. These two recent evolutions played a vital role in Europeans after agriculture, and the loss of a ready made Vitamin D diet.
Quote from above article
"Either way, the implication is that our European ancestors were brown-skinned for tens of thousands of years --a suggestion made 30 years ago by Stanford University geneticist L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza. He argued that the early immigrants to Europe, who were hunter-gatherers, herders, and fishers, survived on ready-made sources of vitamin D in their diet. But when farming spread in the past 6000 years, he argued, Europeans had fewer sources of vitamin D in their food and needed to absorb more sunlight to produce the vitamin in their skin. Cultural factors such as heavier clothing might also have favored increased absorption of sunlight on the few exposed areas of skin, such as hands and faces, says paleoanthropologist Nina Jablonski of PSU in State College."
Dr. Wells, of the National Geographic Society, said Dr. Pritchard's results were fascinating and would help anthropologists explain the immense diversity of human populations even though their genes are generally similar. The relative handful of selected genes that Dr. Pritchard's study has pinpointed may hold the answer, he said, adding, "Each gene has a story of some pressure we adapted to."
Dr. Wells is gathering DNA from across the globe to map in finer detail the genetic variation brought to light by the HapMap project.
Dr. Pritchard's list of selected genes also includes five that affect skin color. The selected versions of the genes occur solely in Europeans and are presumably responsible for pale skin. Anthropologists have generally assumed that the first modern humans to arrive in Europe some 45,000 years ago had the dark skin of their African origins, but soon acquired the paler skin needed to admit sunlight for vitamin D synthesis.
The finding of five skin genes selected 6,600 years ago could imply that Europeans acquired their pale skin much more recently. Or, the selected genes may have been a reinforcement of a process established earlier, Dr. Pritchard said. The five genes show no sign of selective pressure in East Asians.
Because Chinese and Japanese are also pale, Dr. Pritchard said, evolution must have accomplished the same goal in those populations by working through different genes or by changing the same genes — but many thousands of years before, so that the signal of selection is no longer visible to the new test.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Block Block (bl[o^]k), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Blocked (bl[o^]kt); p. pr. & vb. n. Blocking.] [Cf. F. bloquer, fr. bloc block. See Block, n.] 1. To obstruct so as to prevent passage or progress; to
^ Which is exactly what melanin does visa UV radiation.
It obstructs it's passage to the skin cells.
This is how it protects against cancer from UV radiation, and how it limits the synthesis of vitamin D from said radiation.
A perfect coating of melanin on the skin [absolute black] would -BLOCK- all UV from reaching the skin, and prevent ANY synthesis of vitamin D.
This is why there is a trade-off involved, and this is why skin color varies in the 1st place.
Too bad you don't like this fact and so refuse to grasp it.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
MN keeps prattling, and hopes we will forget this quote from his own cited source.....
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
Individuals with higher skin melanin content will require more time in sunlight to produce the same amount of vitamin D as individuals with lower melanin content.
^ MN says his own source is wrong and this isn't true, but he can't explain why.
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