quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Mine is 20/30.
Ok.. and? lol
meninarmer are you mentally disturbed by any chance, lol. Do you normally just blurt things out that are totally irrelevant, like say, your eyesight?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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I was going to suggest, if you have trouble seeing the text, you might consider use of a text-to-speech (T2S) processor similar to the one DJ Robot uses when he is verbally speaking. Many Operating systems contain one, and all you need do is start it up, cut and paste the section of text you wish to read, paste that section into the T2S window, and the computers synthesizer will read and verbalize the section for you. That way, one can be damn near blind and still enjoy the thrill of reading. It works well for DJ.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I was going to suggest, if you have trouble seeing the text,
No trouble here kid, the trouble is you have yet to provide the text for your supposed word problem.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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You ate up with cataracts. (Which also means the light doesn't shine through.)
Feel free to call me a ghetto name. I promise I won't say anything. Besides, you have some catching up to do. Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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MN MISquotes: Determined that 18,000 years have passed since the "white-skinned" (Albinism) allele was FIXED in Europeans.
^ This is both a misquote, and an incomplete quote taken out of context. Thus it is a classic example of a strawman argument that bears no resemblence to what the author actually stated, which waS....
quote:Norton worked with Cheng to find out when the muation swept thru Europeans.
Using variations in a gene that did not cause paling, she calculated the background mutation rate, and determined that 18,000 years had passed since the light-skin allele was fixed in Europeans.
But the error margins were large, so she analysed varation in the DNA flanking the gene.
^ And from this, here is what she concluded....
..a striking lack of diversity in the flanking DNA - a sign of very recent genetic change. That data suggest that the selective sweep occured 5300 to 6000 year ago, but given the imprecision of method, the real date could be as far as 12,000 years ago.
^ this is my position.
your's finds *no scholar* supporting it, because it is utterly idiotic.
when you fabricate misquotes from scholars who disagree with you, you only add to the impression that you realise that no *sane* person agrees with you.
now, feel free to continue your exercise in illiteracy MN.
It's all you're good for.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: [QB] MN MISquotes: Determined that 18,000 years have passed since the "white-skinned" (Albinism) allele was FIXED in Europeans.
^ This is both a misquote, and an incomplete quote taken out of context. Thus it is a classic example of a strawman argument that bears no resemblence to what the author actually stated, which waS....
[QUOTE]
No misquote. The first case of two Africans mating yielding an White child would be cause by the Albinism allele. This is why whites have labeled this defective genetic sequence which include SLC24A5 as, OA (ocular albinism), OCA (Oculocutaneous albinism).
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Norton worked with Cheng to find out when the muation swept thru Europeans.
Using variations in a gene that did not cause paling, she calculated the background mutation rate, and determined that 18,000 years had passed since the light-skin allele was fixed in Europeans.
But the error margins were large, so she analysed varation in the DNA flanking the gene.
..a striking lack of diversity in the flanking DNA - a sign of very recent genetic change. That data suggest that the selective sweep occured 5300 to 6000 year ago, but given the imprecision of method, the real date could be as far as 12,000 years ago.
^ this is my position.
your position is that *white/albinos* migrated out of africa and into Europe, and finds *no scholar* supporting it, because it is utterly idiotic.
disagree?
name a scholar who supports your position?
you can't.
because your view is ridiculous, and you know it.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Signatures of positive selection in genes associated with human skin pigmentation as revealed from analyses of single nucleotide polymorphisms.
We identified eight genes that are associated with the melanin pathway (SLC45A2, OCA2, TYRP1, DCT, KITLG, EGFR, DRD2 and PPARD) and presented significant differences in genetic variation between Europeans, Africans and Asians. In six of these genes we detected, by means of the EHH test, variability patterns that are compatible with the hypothesis of local positive selection in Europeans (OCA2, TYRP1 and KITLG) and in Asians (OCA2, DCT, KITLG, EGFR and DRD2) , whereas signals were scarce in Africans (DCT, EGFR and DRD2).
My Insertion: Genes Associated with Albinism Gene_______________Type of Albinism
Limited knowledge is available on the evolutionary history of human skin pigmentation. Dark skin pigmentation has been suggested as the ancestral trait in humans (Jablonski & Chaplin, 2000). If this is true, light skin pigmented populations could have arisen after humans spread from Africa into the rest of the world, according to the "Out of Africa" hypothesis about 100,000-150,000 years ago (Cavalli-Sforza & Feldman, 2003). On the other hand, it could be imagined that light skin had already arisen in Africa, for instance in the Khoisan who appear in the most basal branch of a tree of worldwide Y chromosome diversity (Underhill et al. 2000) , and who have somewhat lighter skin colour than other African groups (Jablonski & Chaplin, 2000).
Lao O, de Gruijter JM, van Duijn K, Navarro A, Kayser M. Department of Forensic Molecular Biology, Erasmus University Medical Centre Rotterdam, The Netherlands.
Note above, and I repeat, OCA the leading melanin defect pathway detected in Europeans and Asians stands for, Oculocutaneous albinism. Virtually, ALL medical genetic researchers agree on this reality. OCA is a genetically inherited autosomal recessive condition and OCA2, tyrosine-positive albinism, is the most prevalent type found throughout Europe. Due to the lack of melanin, people with albinism are more susceptible to the harmful effects of ultraviolet radiation exposure.
In a Q&A session, a student asked Nina Jablonski a simple question.
Q: As humans in Northern latitudes lost melanin to adapt to lower UVB, did they evolve better DNA repair mechanisms to deal with UVA?
Nina: No they didn't, and this is a real problem in the causation of skin cancer.
OCA is a genetically inherited autosomal recessive condition and OCA2, tyrosine-positive albinism, is the most prevalent type found throughout Europe. Due to the lack of melanin, people with albinism are more susceptible to the harmful effects of ultraviolet radiation exposure.
Ocular Albinism and Hypopigmentation Defects in Slc24a5–/– Mice
The severe hypopigmentation of neuroepithelium-derived cells in the eyes resulted in a novel form of ocular albinism in Slc24a5–/– mice. Our findings suggest that SLC24A5 may be a candidate gene for some forms of ocular albinism and for the BEY1/EYCL2 locus previously associated with central brown eye color in humans.
P. Vogel, R. W. Read, R. B. Vance, K. A. Platt, K. Troughton and D. S. Rice
Departments of Pathology (PV, RWR, RBV), Lexicon Pharmaceuticals Inc., The Woodlands, TX, and Department of Anatomy and Neurobiology, University of Tennessee, Memphis, TN (KT)
Now this study examines Ph level of melanosomes and provides interesting conclusions.
Regulation of the catalytic activity of preexisting tyrosinase in black and Caucasian human melanocyte cell cultures.
The activity of tyrosinase, the rate-limiting enzyme for melanin synthesis, is higher in Black skin melanocytes than in melanocytes derived from Caucasian skin. These data support a model for racial pigmentation that is based on differences in melanosome pH in Black and Caucasian skin types. The models suggests that melanosomes of Caucasian melanocytes are acidic , while those of Black individuals are more neutral. Since tyrosinase is inactive in an acid environment, the enzyme is largely inactive in Caucasian melanosomes but fully active in Black melanosomes.
Fuller BB, Spaulding DT, Smith DR.
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, The University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 73104,
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Signatures of positive selection in genes associated with human skin pigmentation as revealed from analyses of single nucleotide polymorphisms.
This following study(originally posted by me) and authors, do not agree with you at all kid, just read the first line...
Phenotypic variation between human populations in skin pigmentation correlates with latitude at the continental level. A large number of hypotheses involving genetic adaptation have been proposed to explain human variation in skin colour, but only limited genetic evidence for positive selection has been presented. To shed light on the evolutionary genetic history of human variation in skin colour we inspected 118 genes associated with skin pigmentation in the Perlegen dataset, studying single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), and analyzed 55 genes in detail. We identified eight genes that are associated with the melanin pathway (SLC45A2, OCA2, TYRP1, DCT, KITLG, EGFR, DRD2 and PPARD) and presented significant differences in genetic variation between Europeans, Africans and Asians. In six of these genes we detected, by means of the EHH test, variability patterns that are compatible with the hypothesis of local positive selection in Europeans (OCA2, TYRP1 and KITLG) and in Asians (OCA2, DCT, KITLG, EGFR and DRD2), whereas signals were scarce in Africans (DCT, EGFR and DRD2). Furthermore, a statistically significant correlation between genotypic variation in four pigmentation candidate genes and phenotypic variation of skin colour in 51 worldwide human populations was revealed. Overall, our data also suggest that light skin colour is the derived state and is of independent origin in Europeans and Asians, whereas dark skin color seems of unique origin, reflecting the ancestral state in humans.Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Phenotypic variation between human populations in skin pigmentation correlates with latitude at the continental level.
This is true, except in regards to those afflicted (African, European, Asian, India) with Albinism. These people regardless of geography will not exhibit major phenotype variation, except through admixture.
Notice these studies neglect to type European and Asian to Africa Albino in spite of both sharing at least one dominate gene with African Albinos, OCA2 which itself, is responsible for Albinism. The Africans selected for testing, did not carry the OCA mutation.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Notice these studies neglect to type European and Asian to Africa Albino in spite of both sharing at least one dominate gene with African Albinos, OCA2 which itself, is responsible for Albinism. The Africans selected for testing, did not carry the OCA mutation.
You dumb twit, the gene was in fact found in the African population and it plays a role in shaping light and dark pigmentation worldwide, but the mutation found in Europeans in this gene, was not found in the African gene, but the OCA2 gene was still present in the said Africans, Asians, and Europeans.
We identified eight genes that are associated with the melanin pathway (SLC45A2, OCA2, TYRP1, DCT, KITLG, EGFR, DRD2 and PPARD) and presented significant differences in genetic variation between Europeans, Africans and Asians.
These identified eight genes involved with the melanin pathway are found in all three populations, but they had different mutations at different times, and totally independent of eachother, which is why these eight are specifically identified out of 155pigmentation genes tested.
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Albinism in Africa as a public health issue
Oculocutaneous albinism (OCA) encompasses a heterogeneous group of genetic conditions with an autosomal recessive inheritance. It is characterized by hypopigmentation of the skin, hair and eyes due to a reduced or lack of cutaneous melanin pigment production [1]. Consequently, in Africa, the affected individuals have sandy coloured hair, white chalky skin and light brown or blue eyes, making them more susceptible to the harmful effects of ultraviolet (UV) radiation.
There are two types of OCA: tyrosinase negative (OCA1) and tyrosinase positive (OCA2). In OCA1, there is little or no melanin production due to the lack of a functional tyrosinase, the critical enzyme required in the melanin biosynthetic pathway. In the more prevalent OCA2 type [1] there is some level of tyrosinase activity, thereby producing some red-yellow photomelanin pigment that gives rise to sandy coloured hair and light brown irises [1].
There is growing evidence of social discrimination and stigmatization directed towards this population [4,5]. Along with their differences in appearance, a lack of knowledge about albinism in the community leads to such stigma. For example, the etiological beliefs about albinism continue to be heavily influenced by culture and superstition, rather than genetics [6].
Albinism is a disorder that affects individuals and their families medically, socially and psychologically. For some, these latter issues may be more of a burden than the actual medical complaints. While the medical issues have been studied for decades, we have tried, through this review, to shed light upon the dearth of currently available epidemiological and public health data on albinism in Africa. Given this lack of data, a prevalence range for the general population from 1/5,000 – 1/15,000 seems plausible, indicating that tens of thousands of people in southern Africa are affected. Though low in comparison with other major health problems, these figures and the even larger numbers of indirectly affected persons, qualify albinism as a public health issue deserving further attention to increase the awareness of and information about this condition.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^ Which again has no bearing on the FACT that European paleness is NOT albinism. Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ Well it certainly isn't environmental adaption A.I. Robot. They didn't adapt to UV very well now did they. No better than any other Albino has. Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by me-no-brain: They didn't adapt to UV very well now did they.
me-no-brain,
Well duh they didn't have to, original humans in Africa adapted very well to the UV, and hence retained a dark pigmentation to protect from harmful intense UV.
But the opposite happened when humans reached northern latitudes there was little to no UV, and hence they adapted to lesser UV, you idiot.
quote:"Humans started in Africa," Jablonski says, the part of Africa near the equator where it is intensely sunny with lots of ultraviolet light.
Ultraviolet light, or UV, in high doses can age the skin and damage the DNA molecule, which makes it harder to build a fetus. Not to mention that ultraviolet light can sometimes cause skin cancer.
On the other hand, if a human is plopped down in, say, Norway, where the days can be short and there is precious little ultraviolet light, this creates problems, too. All vertebrate animals need ultraviolet light to help produce vitamin D. Vitamin D helps us absorb calcium from our food to build strong bones. If we don't get enough ultraviolet light, we're less likely to survive to reproductive age to produce strong-boned babies.
Thus the dilemma: People who live in sunny climes around the equator have too much UV. People who move away from the equator eventually have too little UV.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Mr. Meninarmer, SIR...
Well duh, I feel dumb speaking with you, but they didn't have to, original humans in Africa adapted very well to the UV, and hence retained a dark pigmentation to protect from harmful intense UV.
But the opposite happened when humans reached northern latitudes there was little to no UV, and hence they adapted to lesser UV, Please forgive my ignorance.
Wrong answer poor 4-eyed sub-clinical.
Whites and Albinos are the ONLY humans on earth not acclimated to their UV environments be it north or south of the equator.
In a Q&A session, a student asked Nina Jablonski a simple question.
Q: As humans in Northern latitudes lost melanin to adapt to lower UVB, did they evolve better DNA repair mechanisms to deal with UVA?
Nina: No they didn't, and this is a real problem in the causation of skin cancer.
There probably isn't anything that can be done, but get ya eyes checked anyway.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^ Perhaps it is YOU who should get your eyes check as this topic article has been posted hundreds of times, but perhaps the text is too small for your eyes to read it let alone for your mind to comprehend!
No albinsim, only adaptation to low UV environment which = pale skin of Europeans.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ OCA stands for Albinism. SLC24A5 is an OCA Albinism allele repackaged for Robotic consumption as a "magic" white gene. Perform a self diagnostic routine. Does not compute. Nuff said.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: In a Q&A session, a student asked Nina Jablonski a simple question.
Q: As humans in Northern latitudes lost melanin to adapt to lower UVB, did they evolve better DNA repair mechanisms to deal with UVA?
Nina: No they didn't, and this is a real problem in the causation of skin cancer.
Which is why whites suffer the highest rates of skin cancer, so?! What does this have to do with the fact that their whiteness was an adaptation in the first place, moron??! Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ Whites do not have the HIGHEST incident rate for skin cancer, ROBOT. OCA1 Albinos (African, European, American, Russian, Alaskan) have number 1 spot, regardless of geography. OCA2 whites (Europeans) have number 2 position, regardless of geography. Admixed Asians have number 3 position, regardless of geography.
All other ethnic groups who have REAL Positive selection due to environmental adaption (people of color) have zero incidents of skin cancer & melanoma, even outside of their native environments.
Have you programmers update your firmware. Good luck, I doubt that they will.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^ Again, I never denied that whites have the highest rate of skin cancer, nitwit! My point was that their whiteness was a result of evolutionary adaptation in low UV environment, moron!
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: ^ OCA stands for Albinism. SLC24A5 is an OCA Albinism allele repackaged for Robotic consumption as a "magic" white gene. Perform a self diagnostic routine. Does not compute. Nuff said.
Actually OCA means Oculocutaneous albinism, but true albinism is when there is a complete loss of pigment for all epidermal tissue. This is not the case as many of the lightest whites have dark pigmented hair and eyes and can even tan, moron!
Also, true albinism is a recessive trait, that cannot recombine or mix with other alleles which is why a black parent and a white parent can produce mixed-offspring that is not as light as the white parent but not as dark as the black parent-- hence Obama! If Obama's mother was not European but merely a black albino and his father a normal black man, than Obama himself would have been born totally black.
But of course common sense alludes you nevermind scientific logic.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ Albinism is determined primarily through visual observation. The color and functionality of the eyes is the number 1 visual indicator of Albinism, ROBOT. Blue/Green/Hazel eyes means, Albinism.
As they say, the eyes are the windows of the soul, or in this application, melanin density.
Your Obama reference is incorrect. Had the father carried the OCA recessive trait, Obama would have had an 25% chance of being born Albino. An normal black person mating with a white carrying the OA2 recessive trait will in 1/4 cases yield offspring carrying the OCA2 recessive trait. This is not to be CONFUSED with OCA1.
Of course, robots aren't pre-programmed with this human information.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: me-no-brain Well duh they didn't have to, original humans in Africa adapted very well to the UV, and hence retained a dark pigmentation to protect from harmful intense UV.
But the opposite happened when humans reached northern latitudes there was little to no UV, and hence they adapted to lesser UV, you idiot.
Wrong answer poor 4-eyed sub-clinical.
Whites and Albinos are the ONLY humans on earth not acclimated to their UV environments be it north or south of the equator.
In a Q&A session, a student asked Nina Jablonski a simple question.
Q: As humans in Northern latitudes lost melanin to adapt to lower UVB, did they evolve better DNA repair mechanisms to deal with UVA?
Nina: No they didn't, and this is a real problem in the causation of skin cancer.
There probably isn't anything that can be done, but get ya eyes checked anyway.
You dimwit you make no sense, and you lack simple logic.
Humans who moved north, ultimately adapted to LESSER UV and shorter days, cloudy skies, not intense UV and longer days.
Of course humans who decreased in natures sunscreen (melanin) under darker skies to allow UV in to synthesize and produce Vitamin D, would therefore be susceptible to harmful damaging UV rays that they didn't adapt their pale white skin for.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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^ I'm tired of beating the donkey uphill. Give someone else a chance to be thrashed, you blind-as-a-bat masochist.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by men-no-brain-at-all: ^ I'm tired of being beaten like a donkey uphill. Give someone else a chance to thrash me, you evil bad man.
The fact that humans lightened up in lesser UV environments, yet you still try to point this out as some kind of correlation to albinos, since Europeans are susceptible to UV damage is really imbecilic.
Of course they'd (Europeans) be susceptible to intense UV rays, which can in turn cause serious skin damage; why?
Because they adapted in a LESSER UV environment, you dimwitted remedial dunce.
Anyone who has atleast some comprehension would understand that a population who has adapted to a lesser UV environment, in that they decreased in their natural sunscreen (Melanin), hence became lighter, would therefore definitely be prone to UV damage, since of course they adapted to lesser UV, this is plain and simple.
Melanin is natures sun screen, and hence protects against harmful UV damaging rays when in intense UV environments its an extreme advantage, but in lesser UV environments this melanin is a disadvantage.
Since it doesn't allow for synthesis of UV under the cloudy skies of northern latitudes, since again, melanin is naturally a sun screen.
All vertebrate animals need ultraviolet light to help produce vitamin D, so in turn humans decreased in melanin levels to be able to drink in the sun under darker cloudier skies.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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^ Hahaha, you got it WRONG. Europeans develop skin cancer for the same reasons all other humans other than Europeans develop skin cancer. Because they are Albinos. Only one type of human develops skin cancer. Albinos. You, Rasol and American Patriot are in an infinitely looped, psychological denial pattern. Robots don't count. Not figuratively, of course.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^^Is that the best you can rebuttal after I just debunked that delirious claim
The fact that humans lightened up in lesser UV environments, yet you still try to point this out as some kind of correlation to albinos, since Europeans are susceptible to UV damage is really imbecilic.
Of course they'd (Europeans) be susceptible to intense UV rays, which can in turn cause serious skin damage; why?
Because they adapted in a LESSER UV environment, you dimwitted remedial dunce.
quote:Originally posted by me-no-brain-at-all:
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Phenotypic variation between human populations in skin pigmentation correlates with latitude at the continental level.
This is true, except in regards to those afflicted (African, European, Asian, India) with Albinism. These people regardless of geography will not exhibit major phenotype variation, except through admixture.
You're really slow kid. The above quote you cited me on is explaining the variation between human skin pigmentation correlates with latitude at the continental level, hence populations further from the equator will be lighter while populations closer to the equator will be darker.
See, this is exactly what I mean when I repeat to you over and over that you have poor reading comprehension and don't understand what you're trying to refute and so completely, and probably innocently misinterpret the data, or blatantly make things up.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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^ From your silly theories about environmentally adapted Asian-Europeans represented by Bay Area Chinese to your ignorance on the issue of albinism, you have proven yourself the joke of ES.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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From your deliberately fabricated, ultimately false accusations, and persistent tailing of my posts, shows that you're the distraught stalker of ES.
Btw, I've noticed you like to call everyone "the joke of ES", seems like you're simply projecting.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: From your deliberately fabricated, ultimately false accusations
I'm heartened by your consistency nowadays in distancing yourself from your face saving bullshit theories after I exposed your ignorance of Keita etc so thoroughly and comprehensively. At least your beatdown wasn't in vain.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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^ Indeed. Minibrainer thinks European paleness is albinism while Assopen still denies the mixed ancestry of Europeans. Both are delusional and both are dimwits. Oh well. Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The Appearance and Disappearance of Moors in Spain: What Color Were They? Tiffany Ruby Patterson
Racial discourse in the modern world turns on color and so much of our understanding of earlier periods is filtered through a modern notion of color and race. Confronting Europe and Africa in the centuries prior to the Atlantic slave trade presents particular difficulties if that encounter is understood solely within the framework of a “modern” racial discourse. Yet to understand this discourse, we must telescope back to that earlier period in which Africans and Europeans confronted each other before the Atlantic slave trade, during a moment of conquest. We must begin with the Iberian peninsula and the creation of the first and only “black” state in Europe, as well as the point of departure for the Atlantic slave trade. Here Africans, Europeans, Jews, and Arabs fashioned a complicated world out of conquest, imperial control, and economic and military power. Here too, notions of difference based on color, religion, ethnicity, culture and civilization evolved over a period of eight centuries until the expulsion of Moors, Jews, and Arabs and some of their progeny.
What was left at the end of the fifteenth century was the residue of a Moorish presence in the material culture, the bitter taste of racist rage, and the beginning of a carefully crafted effort to erase the memory of Moorish Spain. That effort began with a search for a “purity of blood” through a whitening of “Moors” and “Zephardic” Jews at the moment of another conquest, that of the Americas, and beginnings of the Atlantic slave trade. To unravel a piece of this thick and complicated history, I want to explore in my paper and presentation the simple question of color and the meaning of blackness in early modern Spain. Today’s immigration of Moroccans, Nigerians, and Senegalese into Spain raises the old question of blackness in Spain and its meaning. This history has much to teach us.
As a starting point for a historical investigation of a “blackened” Europe, we must begin, then, by asking who were the Moors and what did they look like? What color were they? More to the point, what did blackness mean in Moorish Spain? What was the vocabulary of color and how did it change after the fifteenth century? How did the Moors view themselves? What do the primary sources, limited as they are, have to say about the African presence in Spain? There was a time when the historical imagination included the Moors. At what point did the Moors disappear from the imagination of Europe and what was it replaced with? What are the implications of the fact that the Moors were expelled from Spain at the precise moment that Spain embarked on the African slave trade in the Atlantic and an overseas empire? What are the implications of this erased presence for the origins of modern racial discourse?
Many secondary writers today are cagey about who the Moors were, leaving them shrouded by Arabs and Muslims. However, an earlier group of scholars from an older tradition of Afro centricity asked just these questions. J.A. Rogers and John Jackson for example brought forward the Africanity of these Muslim invaders insisting on their blackness and their importance in the creation of Spain and its culture. More recently, St. Clair Drake, Ivan Van Sertima, and Jan Carew have sifted through archives and museums for traces of these Moors and their “black and colored” European descendents. They have examined the racial polyglot of early Europe and raised questions regarding blackness and difference. Others, such as Richard Fletcher, have acknowledged the importance of the African majority but have not probed the meaning of blackness. Much work remains to be done on this early period to uncover the shape and texture of a Spanish culture flavored by a large population of Africans.
We know for example that at the time of the invasion in 711, Arabs led the army but the rank and file was Berber. Nearly 150,000 to 200,000 Berber tribesmen settled in Southern Spain. The evidence suggests that many brought their wives, children, slaves and clients. However many others took wives, slaves, and clients from the indigenous population thereby creating, over several centuries, mixed groups of “Moors.” We know too, that the Arabs never used the word Moor but instead referred to the masses of North Africans as Berbers, even those who were not black. The Oxford English dictionary describes moors as a people who are black or very dark and in many contexts the word is synonymous with “Negro.” The word Moor will signify “black” in several European languages in the early modern period. In one essential source, the Cantigas of Santa Maria, written by Alphonso X (1254-1286), the Moors are represented as black. This period is significant for it was the period of the Almoravid invasion, which brought thousands of new Africans into the Iberian peninsula. The images of Africans are varied with many being very positive. Yet the tensions between Arabs and Moors and Europeans flared again and again, tensions that suggests differences based on “race and color” and social position. Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to understand this early period as a carbon copy of the system of color-caste that would eventually develop in the New World diapsora. What needs to be explain by beginning with early modern Spain is the intense racism toward blackness and black people in Spain, a racism that manifests itself today as hordes of new immigrants from both North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa invade Spain seeking economic relief and a new citizenship. There they encounter the legacy of color and blackness with all of their hidden meanings.
My interest in color as a constituent element of race in Spain is part of a larger project about the shifting structures of color in the Atlantic world particularly the Caribbean and the United States. Spain is a predecessor to these New World structures.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: ^ Hahaha, you got it WRONG. Europeans develop skin cancer for the same reasons all other humans other than Europeans develop skin cancer. Because they are Albinos.
^ Now, please name a doctor who will state that only Albino's get skin cancer.
Name one. Any doctor, from anywhere in the world.
Maybe you are a Mini-Brainer, after all. Otherwise why say dumb things, like "only Albino's get skin cancer". (??)
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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On the other hand, it could be imagined that light skin had already arisen in Africa, for instance in the Khoisan who appear in the most basal branch of a tree of worldwide Y chromosome diversity (Underhill et al. 2000) , and who have somewhat lighter skin colour than other African groups (Jablonski & Chaplin, 2000). [/i]
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, The University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 73104,
^ Your position is that Europeans are descendant from Albino's who migrated out of AFrica.
Khoisan are not Albino's, are not directly ancestral to Europeans, and even worse, are an example of relatively lighter skin as adaptation to lower UV in southern Africa's temperate zones.
Evidence of lighter skin as adaptation to less UV is also contra' to your stupid claims.
Thus the above citation offers no support for your position, and actually refutes it.
Morever the scholars referenced [Jablonski, Sforza] are the very ones who state that all humans were originally dark skinned, and thus are the very ones you are supposed to be refuting to begin with.
^ Mini Brainer strikes again. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: ^ Hahaha, you got it WRONG. Europeans develop skin cancer for the same reasons all other humans other than Europeans develop skin cancer. Because they are Albinos.
In a Q&A session, a student asked Nina Jablonski a simple question.
Q: As humans in Northern latitudes lost melanin to adapt to lower UVB, did they evolve better DNA repair mechanisms to deal with UVA?
Nina: No they didn't, and this is a real problem in the causation of skin cancer. ____________________________________________________
FACTS:
# Skin cancer is the most common form of cancer in the United States. More than one million skin cancers are diagnosed annually.
# Each year there are more new cases of skin cancer than the combined incidence of cancers of the breast, prostate, lung and colon.
# One in five Americans will develop skin cancer in the course of a lifetime.
# In 2004, the total direct cost associated with the treatment for non-melanoma skin cancers was more than $1 billion.
# The incidence of many common cancers is falling, but the incidence of melanoma continues to rise significantly (3.4% annually), at a rate faster than that of any of the seven most common cancers.
# The majority of people diagnosed with melanoma are white men over age 50.
* In The United States, approximately 62,480 melanomas will be diagnosed this year, with nearly 8,420 resulting in death.3
Skin phototyping categorises people into one of six groups based on baseline skin colour and the tendency to tan and/or burn when exposed to UV radiation.
Skin type | Typical Features | Tanning ability | MED (mJ/cm2) __________________________________________________
I Pale white skin, blue/hazel eyes, blond/red hair Always burns, does not tan 15-30 II Fair skin, blue eyes Burns easily, tans poorly 25-40 III Darker white skin Tans after initial burn 30-50 IV Light brown skin Burns minimally, tans easily 40-60 V Brown skin Rarely burns, tans darkly easily 60-90 VI Dark brown or black skin Never burns, always tans darkly 90-150
The amount of UV radiation, measured in energy per unit area, to produce erythema at an exposed site is called the minimal erythema dose (MED) and this is significantly lower in people with a low skin phototype grading.
People with type I & 2 skin phototyping are at much greater risk of sunburn than their type VI counterparts.
Who are the people with TYPES 1 & 2 skin types?
Answer: Whites & Albinos
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: In a Q&A session, a student asked Nina Jablonski a simple question.
Q: As humans in Northern latitudes lost melanin to adapt to lower UVB, did they evolve better DNA repair mechanisms to deal with UVA?
Nina: No they didn't, and this is a real problem in the causation of skin cancer.
Wow you're slow.
Only a dimwit like you would ignore the fact that humans in Northern latitudes lost melanin to adapt to lower UVB , as stated in the question, and hence of course as explained leaves them susceptible to intense UV environments where they didn't adapt to.
You dumbass. See this is yet again another example of you not knowing anything about what you read. You're really hopeless.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
^ he's hilarious in his determined stupidity. he quotes that which contradicts him, and reads right past it, and continues to assert fantasy instead.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
^ The parallel melanin-less commonality between white and Albinos is no coincidence 4-eyes. Rather than be afraid and run to denial, accept the reality and make wise decisions based on the facts. There is no need to lash out in confusion/frustration/anger/denial.
Skin Cancer=Lack Of melanin=Albino=Whites
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Wrong, just as I explained to some idiot in another thread....
Pale skin in Europeans and east Asians = normal environmental adaptation to a lesser UV environment.
Pale skin in African albinos = genetic birth defect, not environmentally adapted, nor is it normal in tropical environments.
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: There are two different scientific confirmations for Europeans and east Asians being pale, and the rare genetic defect of albinism which can occur in any population worldwide and at any time.
Pale skin in Europeans and East Asians is an environmental, and a recent evolutionary adaptation, and variation in skin pigmentation has been proven to correlate with latitude at the continental level.
Whereas an albino can be born in Africa with this depleted melanin from deeply melanated African parents, which would be detrimental, and therefore leaving this albino child susceptible, since he/she needs melanin to protect against harmful UV rays, hence this would be a genetic defect, and does not correlate with latitude at the continental level.
Europeans and east Asians are not in born with a genetic defect, as they are indeed environmentally adapted to a lesser UV environment, and therefore this transformation from dark as their paleolithic ancestors, to the pale state they are in today, was a gradual process, and an extreme advantage against the darker cloudy skies and shorter days and longer winters of northern latitudes, since all vertebrate are dependent on UV synthesis for production of Vitamin D the only way to account for this vitally needed Vitamin D, would be for these humans to decrease in melanin.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
The evidence is quite clear and irrefutable.
Albinos and whites share Type I & 2 skin types. Regardless of how it was gained, both skin types are indicative of Albinism, skin cancer susceptibility, and have nothing to do with which UV environment in which they developed.
Type I & 2 skin types solely result from Albinism and have nothing to do with Vitamin D.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Regardless of how it was gained, both skin types are indicative of Albinism,
Of course you know you're desperately reaching, albinism is a genetic birth defect, not normal to tropical environments.
Europeans and East Asians pale skin is not a birth defect, and is completely normal, as they are not adapted to a tropical climate, but rather a lesser UV environment.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: skin cancer susceptibility, and have nothing to do with which UV environment they developed.
Of course it does, since they're not adapted to intense UV environments, humans in northern latitudes adapted to lesser UV, in which they decreased in natural sunscreen (melanin), and hence this is simply an obvious fact that they would be susceptible to intense UV.
Like I said, only an idiot like you wouldn't understand that humans who adapted to a lower UV environment, would leave them susceptible to intense UV simply because they DID NOT adapt to intense UV.
Darkskin = adaptation to intense UV, normal in intense UV environments.
Pale skin = adaptation to lesser UV, normal in northern latitudes.
Albinos = not normal since, not environmentally adapted, an albino is supposed to be born with melanin in more sunny climates, hence this is a genetic birth defect.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
^ If Albinism is indeed a genetic defect (which it is), than so is White skin in Europeans due to genetic defect.
There is no meed to grasp when providing established facts.
Loss of Melanin + Loss of DNA Repair +/- Blue/Green/Hazel Eyes +/- White/Blond/Red hair = Albinism.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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When humans migrated into Europe, they retained melanin, and were not albinos (no evidence for it), hence as a gradual adaptation that would give them an extreme advantage occurred to these humans in Europe. The transformation from dark as their paleolithic ancestors, to the pale state they are in today, was a gradual process, and an extreme advantage against the darker cloudy skies and shorter days and longer winters of northern latitudes, since all vertebrate are dependent on UV synthesis for production of Vitamin D the only way to account for this vitally needed Vitamin D, would be for these humans to decrease in melanin, or else they wouldn't have survived.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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