Above, I incorrectly used the term "BLACK PHENOTYPE". Of course as we all know; ALL Humans are of one of the various Black Phenotypes. Among these Black Phenotypes are straight hair, narrow noses, thin lips, etc.
However, one thing that is NOT among Black Phenotypes is "WHITE SKIN".
So to be accurate; in Europe there was THIS Black Phenotype!!!
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xyyman - You are getting perilously close, to being one of the intellectually lazy who refuse to dig for themselves, and want everything handed to them on a silver platter. -
YES. . .SOMETIMES
"Unusual" and perhaps "Unnatural" in the "Normal" evolution of Man. –
YES. CAN’T FIGURE OUT HOW A PEOPLE CAN BE ALLERGIC TO . .OF ALL THINGS. . . THE SUN. THAT IS WEIRD. THE ONLY REASONABLE EXPLANATION IS THEY DEVELOPED IN A DARK, COLD ENVIRONMENT IE CAVE
To quote Marley: Man evolved in an "Incubator" not a "Refrigerator". _ YES
So then, it is up to truth seekers(INTELLIGENT BLACK PEOPLE) . . . to try and piece together what actually happened. - YES
At the LGM there were only two Humanoids left in existence - Modern man and Gro-magnon - BOTH of which were of the Black phenotype!
_ YES/NO. ONE AND THE SAME. BOTH BLACK. THE ONLY OTHER EXPLANATION WAS, THERE WAS ANOTHER GROUP FURTHER NORTH. TRAPPED BY THE LGM, COULDN’T MOVE SOUTH. THEY NEEDED TO DEVELOP THE MEANS OF SURVIVING WITH LACK OF VIT D IN THE DIET. “NATURE FOUND A WAY”
How does skin lightning change phenotype? IN-BREEDING AND OTHER FORCES OF NATURE CHANGES PHENOTYPE. THAT IS WHY THEY LACK VARIABILITY.
But there is more! You seem to believe that people actually lived on the glaciers, of course they did not - they could not. There is no food on Glaciers. –
GEOTHERMAL. CAVES KEEP THEM WARM. REMEMBER THE NEANDERTHALS AND THEY BEING CAVE DWELLERS.
Which is far enough south, to provide abundant sunlight for ALL creatures. –
YES. AGREED. HENCE THEY DEVELOPED FURTHER NORTH.
On the issue of Vitamin D, the animals they hunted and the fish they caught, along with abundant sunshine, provided plenty of Vitamin D. –
NOT IF THEY ARE FURTHER NORTH
But there is more; If there were White people in Europe before the invasion from Asia, where are their artifacts and where are their Bones?
- - -YOU GOT ME THERE
So all that is left is the idiot theory that Black people in Europe "TURNED" White about 6,000 ya. Here again you have the phenotype problem. - Aside from color, how did Black people suddenly also loose their lips and their noses? -
INBREEDING
Aside from that - why did ONLY some Black people turn White? (I BELIEVE NATURE FOUND A WAY WITH THE CHINESE). From artifacts and Bones, we know that there were still lots of "Normal" Black people in Europe
(YES R1a and R1b – BUT THE WHITE SKIN And OTHER CORESPONDING PHENOTYPE developed with HG-I). THE WHITEist , light eyed, light haired people are NOT FOUND IN SOUTHERN EUROPE. THEY ARE THE OPPOSITE END OF THE SPECTURM. SOUTHERN EUROPE IS NNNOOOTTT THEIR NATURAL ENVIRONMENT.
So once again, all that we are left with, that makes any sense, is meninarmers theory of Albinism, which is a well known Human disorder. - NO
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: xyyman - You are getting perilously close, to being one of the intellectually lazy who refuse to dig for themselves, and want everything handed to them on a silver platter.. . . . . .
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xyyman - I see that you have fallen prey to weird science - or you are making up your own rules. Note your quote below:
"Modern man and Gro-magnon - ONE AND THE SAME. BOTH BLACK.
NO, Modern man and Gro-magnon are NOT the same, they are Two Completely different creatures.
Here again your thinking is faulty; modern man (the Black man) is a least three (3) times OLDER than Cro-magnon. YET Cro-magnon is not as advanced as modern man. What does that tell you?????
What it tells me is that you have fallen prey to White man bullsh1t. He is looking for a way into the human chain by claiming that White people descend from Cro-magnon, but it doesn't work. Aside from that; Cro-magnon was Black, but as with Jesus, that hasn't stopped White people from coming up with the phony pictures.
As to your other point: "THE ONLY OTHER EXPLANATION WAS, THERE WAS ANOTHER GROUP FURTHER NORTH. TRAPPED BY THE LGM, COULDN’T MOVE SOUTH. THEY NEEDED TO DEVELOP THE MEANS OF SURVIVING WITH LACK OF VIT D IN THE DIET. “NATURE FOUND A WAY”
This is a Glacier, once a Human goes north of it, he will not be able to find food and starve.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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If the Euro’s evolved in the Asian steppes then they should be of the same hue as the Asians. The northerners are really really really white.
Here is some interesting stuff: While skin tanning is often most noticeable on light complexioned people, even those with very dark brown skin can tan as a result of prolonged exposure to the sun. Some Northwest Europeans have substantially lost the ability to tan as a result of relaxed natural selection. Their skin burns and peels rather than tans. This is due to the fact that they produce a defective form of a skin protein (melanocortin-1 receptor or Mc1r) which is necessary for the production of melanin. They are at a distinct disadvantage in tropical and subtropical environments. Not only do they suffer the discomfort of readily burning, but they are at a much higher risk for skin cancer. The same is true of albinos.
People who live in far northern latitudes, where solar radiation is relatively weak most of the year, have an advantage if their skin has little shielding pigmentation. Nature selects for less melanin when ultraviolet radiation is weak.
“”Such a non-random distribution pattern of human skin color was predicted by Constantin Wilhelm Lambert Gloger, a 19th century German zoologist. In 1833, he observed that heavily pigmented animals are to be found mostly in hot climates where there is intense sunshine. Conversely, those in cold climates closer to the poles commonly have light pigmentation. The relative intensity of solar radiation is largely responsible for this distribution pattern.””
“” Previous studies of human skin color have shown a strong relationship between skin color and distance from the equator, which has been interpreted as a link between skin color, latitude, and the intensity of ultraviolet radiation. The underlying assumptions are that UV radiation is greatest at the equator and that it diminishes with increasing latitude to the same extent in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. The standard analysis of human skin color is based on these assumptions, such that skin color is assumed to be darkest at the equator, and the decrease of skin color with latitude is assumed to be the same in both hemispheres. A nonlinear piecewise regression model was developed to test these assumptions and applied to mean skin reflectance data from 102 male samples and 65 female samples from across the Old World. The results indicate that human skin color is darker in the Southern Hemisphere than in the Northern Hemisphere at equivalent latitude. Recent research shows that UV radiation is higher in the Southern Hemisphere than in the Northern Hemisphere at similar latitude. This difference, relating to astronomical and climatic conditions, may have existed in the past at different times and perhaps influenced the evolution of human skin color. “” http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1567631
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I see a white Cromagnon painting above. Whereas Cromagnon and Neanderthal are often portrayed as white, the archeological evidence, at least in the case of Neanderthal, preserves very clear proof that he can be found *not always so unambiguously, by phenotype, as African:
Following this paragraph, I re-post a previous comment related to the disappearence of Africans in Europe and equally a comment on the nature of the white race in many ways as true today as it was at the time Tacitus (55 AD - 120 AD)wrote it:
Tacitus speaks to migration of the Germanic peoples to Europe for as mentioned earlier, they are new to (not the Steppes - which has been pointed out is in Eurasia and I certainly accept the fact) they are new to Western Europe. They entered as violent, war-bent people who were given to plunder to gain wealth. And as they gained dominance in the world and rule it today on each square foot of land they now own worldwide, it is with the same character that they went through history and act today (as with the unprovoked so-called War in Iraq to gain oil and power) even down to periodic war rituals: i.e. going to war for its own sake or, it seems, for entertainment.
It is said blacks are lazy but it's ironic that the Germanic tribes were hired as soldiers (the indigenous Africans in India too hired incoming Europeans as soldiers for the same reason and the same result) so the Africans (generically also called those of Gaul, Celts, and Moors) could tend to their farms, trade, and building crafts - they didn't want to "waste" their time in activities committed to hostility and violence. And this is one reason African-dominated Europe fell into Germanic hands. The following just supports some of the statements just made.
This is what Tacitus says:
…The tribes which first crossed the Rhine and drove out the Gauls (i.e. Africans) ... were ... called Germans ... which the conquerors had first employed to inspire terror.
...In former times it was not by land but on shipboard that those who sought to emigrate would arrive.
They are less able to bear laborious work. Heat and thirst they cannot in the least endure; to cold and hunger their climate and their soil inure them. (Marc's note: this is because of an origin in a bitter-cold climate - the Steppes).
If their native state sinks into the sloth of prolonged peace and repose, many of its noble youths voluntarily seek those tribes which are waging some war, both because inaction is odious to their race, and because they win renown more readily in the midst of peril, and cannot maintain a numerous following except by violence and war (Marc's note: the Iliad and the Odyessy recounts this same behavior for whites new to Greece). Indeed, men look to the liberality of their chief for their war-horse and their bloodstained and victorious lance. Feasts and entertainments, which, though inelegant, are plentifully furnished, are their only pay. The means of this bounty come from war and rapine. Nor are they as easily persuaded to plough the earth and to wait for the year's produce as to challenge an enemy and earn the honour of wounds. Nay, they actually think it tame and stupid to acquire by the sweat of toil what they might win by their blood.
To pass an entire day and night in drinking disgraces no one. Their quarrels, as might be expected with intoxicated people, are seldom fought out with mere abuse, but commonly with wounds and bloodshed.
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xyyman - You really need to spend a little time thinking about this subject in a practical sense.
First of all - the people living the farthest North are NOT the Swedes, the Fins, or the Norwegians. It is the Reindeer Herders!!!
NOTICE HOW PALE THEY ARE!!!!!
Nenets reindeer herders
Secondly - Yes, because of the "Tilt" of the Earth, the Suns rays are stronger in the Southern Hemisphere. The problem for your theory, is that previous to about 60,000 years ago; there were NO HUMANS there at all! And until about 1500 A.D. the Humans that were there were ALL NON WHITE!! Time to move on.
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xyyman - Just so you understand, these "Dark Skinned" Sami people are the ORIGINAL people of the NORTH! They were DISPLACED, and in some cases - joined, by White people.
Those White people were originally known as Norsemen. They are of German extract, and like ALL White people, they originated in Central Asia. Face it; the only explanation for them, is that they are Albinos!
Norsemen is used to refer to the group of people as a whole who speak one of the North Germanic languages as their native language. ("Norse", in particular, refers to the Old Norse language belonging to the North Germanic branch of Indo-European languages, especially Norwegian, Icelandic, Swedish and Danish in their earlier forms.)
The meaning of Norseman was "people from the North" and was applied primarily to Nordic people originating from southern and central Scandinavia. They established states and settlements in areas which today are part of the Faroe Islands, England, Scotland, Wales, Iceland, Finland, Ireland, Russia, Italy, Canada, Greenland, France, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Germany.
Norse and Norsemen,are applied to the Scandinavian population of the period from the late 8th century to the 11th century. The term "Normans" was later primarily associated with the people of Norse origin in Normandy, France, assimilated into French culture and language. The term Norse-Gaels (Gall Goidel, lit:foreign Gaelic) was used concerning the people of Norse descent in Ireland and Scotland, who assimilated into the Gaelic culture.
Vikings has been a common term for Norsemen in the early medieval period, especially in connection with raids and monastic plundering made by Norsemen in Great Britain and Ireland. Northmen was famously used in the prayer A furore normannorum libera nos domine ("From the fury of the Northmen deliver us, O Lord!"), doubtfully attributed to monks of the English monasteries plundered by Viking raids in the 8th and 9th centuries.
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BTW xyyman - Albinism is also a reasonable explanation as to why they (Whites) are the most lying and unscrupulous people on the planet. As you know, Black people are not only the creators of civilization, but also the creators of the concepts of virtue, truthfulness, evil, and justice. To show the contrast: in the Persian civilization; the greatest sin was the White Mans chief weapon - the LIE!
Because we are the original humans - and the only "pure-blood" remaining humans, these higher level concepts come easily to us because we have had so long to develop them. {Recent bad behavior by Africans can be attributed to the bad influence of White people}.
I think the White mans only recent development as a separate species, has not allowed him to develop these "higher level" concepts "Internally" as yet. Yes, I know that they give lip-service to these things - but they don't really believe in it.
I think that they are still hampered by their genetic memories of how we treated them when they were still "Ordinary" and not yet "Fixed" Albinos in Africa. As you may recall from earlier posts on the subject, their modern brethren in Africa, are still treated horribly by Africans today. No wonder they fear and hate us.
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Haplogroup I (Y-DNA) I is the oldest haplogroup in Europe and in all probability the only one that originated there (apart from deep subclades of other haplogroups). It is thought to have arrived from the Middle East as haplogroup IJ around 35,000 years ago, and developed into haplogroup I approximately 25,000 years ago. This means that Cro-Magnons most probably belonged (exclusively ?) to IJ or I. Nowadays haplogroup I accounts for 10 to 45% of the population in most of Europe. It is divided in four main subclades.
Haplogroup I1 (formerly I1a, distribution map) is the most common I subclade. It is found mostly in Scandinavia and Northern Germany, where it can represent over 35% of the population. Associated with the Norse ethnicity, it is found in all places invaded by the ancient Germanic tribes and the Vikings.
I1 is identified by at least 15 unique mutations, which indicates that this lineage has been isolated for a long period of time, or experienced a serious population bottleneck.
Here is something for you Mike:
The Corded Ware period (3200-1800 BCE) marks the arrival of the Indo-European R1a people from the Ukrainian steppes.
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^ And non of this changes the FACT that whites originated in Europe!
over 70 pages and the above remains unrefuted despite the b*tching whining from the idiotic b*tches above!
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Djehuti - The reason that nobody takes you, or that study seriously, is because it is SUPPOSITION and conjecture. Only a fool like you, would take SUPPOSITION and conjecture, and start running around claiming that it is proof of anything.
To make it clear for you ditz!
MAYBE is NOT Proof.
COULD BE is not Proof.
Making an indisputable DIRECT connection, is PROOF - Ditz.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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^ Yet you FAIL miserably to prove that European paleness is albinism especially since the majority of whites have dark colored hair, and you also FAILED miserably to refute the genetic evidence I and others presented above hundreds of times!...
Just as you FAILED miserably to demonstrate how whites entered Europe and from where (Kurgan steppes which is STILL in Europe!)!!
You are just an idiotic FAILURE. Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The whole point of the thread is that European civilization like Rome and Greece was started by black people that looked "African". Whether you called them black Europeans or Africans. ie Estrucans, Pelegascians etc.
They were eventually overrun by the invading white skinned people. Who eventually conquered and controlled these ancient cultures. . . and stole them as their own.
Marc, Mike and myself differ on where these white skinned people came from. All agree that they are NOT the originators of these stolen civilizations.
These people brought a TOTALLY different language and culture to the region.
My views:
Some experts I quoted earlier agree that HG-I1 were isolated genetically for a long time. These are the Germanic, norse, nord, . . .people that eventually moved south and conquered Southern Europe. They were isolated above the 48th(?) parallel where experts agree white skin developed. Since there is no need for white skin in coastal Europe. And in case you don't understand . . . coastal Europe = Rome, Greece. . . . . ..
I do not share the albino theory but I DO agree they are NEW to that part of Europe.
Even the PCT that you are laying your hat on agree there is the possibility of a large scale invasion. The whole conclusion of the paper is absurd. In other words " if we Europeans are NOT the Neolithic farmers then the Neolithic farmers met us here". Nonsense!!
Even recent genetics studies now point to R1b is an African gene.
Only the HG-I1 seems to be indigenous to Europeans. And guess which group carries this bottle neck gene. . . . .
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European Journal of Human Genetics (2007) 15, 509–510. doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201820; published online 14 March 2007
Hidden African Ancestors: Hidden secrets of your ancestors Peter de Knijff1
1Department of Human Genetics, Center for Human and Clinical Genetics, Leiden University, Medical Center, P O Box 9600, 2300 RC Leiden, The Netherlands
Correspondence: Peter de Knijff, Tel: +31 71 526 9537; Fax: +31 71 526 8278; E-mail: p.de_knijff@lumc.nl
Genealogy is no longer simply a matter of pen, paper, and patience. It seems that modern genealogical reconstruction is not complete without genetic confirmation by means of Y-chromosome genotyping. As usual, when there is a demand, commercial enterprises pop up like autumnal mushrooms. A simple Google search with genealogy+y+DNA results in approximately 468 000 hits. Many of these sites are surname-specific projects or internet companies offering commercial genotype services. What these companies offer is what I call a blindfold scenario: a male with surname X has his Y-profile typed and compared to all other types in the companies' database in the hope of finding a (near) match to someone else in the database irrespective of its surname. The error-prone nature of such a process is perfectly illustrated by the link by Oxford Ancestors of one of their clients to Genghis Khan.1 Only rarely genealogists adopt the much more reliable open-eyed hypothesis driven kind of request: a genealogist has reconstructed a certain pedigree and either wants to have this pedigree confirmed or needs a genetic 'link' between branches of the pedigree which cannot be linked otherwise. This pedigree-based design was also used to obtain the first mutation rates of Y-STRs2 and the reconstruction of the pedigree of Thomas Jefferson.3
In most Western societies surnames are co-transmitted with Y-chromosomes. As a consequence, surname and Y-chromosome reflect the same patrilineal ancestry. Generally speaking, the rarer a surname, the better its transmission over time reflects that of a particular Y-chromosome.4 It has even been shown that in the ideal case population substructure can be inferred only on the basis of detailed surname analyses.5 Although this might be true in general, in isolated cases false paternity or in vitro fertilization by means of anonymous sperm donors disrupts the link between a particular surname and its corresponding Y-chromosomal genotype. Of course, also a perfectly legal marriage can introduce 'exotic' Y-chromosomes into a pedigree. When this happened in the past, and is not adequately documented, one could learn something quite unexpected about one's ancestors. This is exactly what was described in the recent issue of this journal.6
King et al, much to their own surprise, discovered a single male carrying a classical African Y-chromosome type, called haplogroup A1, among a set of 421 males who were analyzed as part of an ongoing large British surname study. The surname of this male matched to another 121 individuals in the public record, predominantly in east Yorkshire. From these, 18 apparently unrelated males were relocated and genotyped. Of these, six more males also carried the same African A1 Y-chromosome. Genealogical research allowed them to be connectedto two pedigrees going back to 1788 AD and 1789 AD. These two pedigrees could not be connected, but a detailed Y-chromosome study strongly suggests that originally they must share a single common male ancestor. As such, the presence of African Y-chromosomes among Western European populations is not without precedent. At least for Britain, the presence of Africans has been reported since 200 AD (see King et al.6). However, what is surprising is the exact type of African Y-chromosome. In Africa itself three major Y-haplogroups are most frequently observed (A, B, and E) with frequencies of approximately 7.3, 11, and 69%, respectively. The frequency of haplogroup A1 is only about 1% in Africa. Its presence among a Yorkshire family dating back about 300 years was therefore quite unexpected.
Since nothing more definitive can be inferred on the basis of the present data, exactly how and when this very rare African Y-chromosome was introduced into the otherwise perfectly indigenous English family will most likely remain unknown. On the basis of Y-STR analysis a Western African origin of this Y-chromosome is likely, despite its rarity. A more detailed surname analysis and a coalescence analysis based on Y-STR differences failed to yield a more exact coalescence date between the two families, although it is probably within a few generations (ie 100–150 years) before 1788. Based on this, it cannot be decided whether the introduction is due to a direct or indirect route. The former could relate to reports of Nubians in the Roman army defending the North territories; the latter could be associated with the later slave trade, which brought the first West Africans to England in 1555.6
The study of King et al demonstrates that a Y-chromosome-only reconstruction of geographic origins can be seriously misleading. It also illustrates how a hitherto unknown secret pops up during a rather innocent pedigree reconstruction by means of Y-chromosome testing. As such it once again shows the importance of a general concept often ignored by participants of pedigree-based Y-testing: if you do not want to know, do not have yourself tested
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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[quote from Xyyman's article]In most Western societies surnames are co-transmitted with Y-chromosomes. As a consequence, surname and Y-chromosome reflect the same patrilineal ancestry. Generally speaking, the rarer a surname, the better its transmission over time reflects that of a particular Y-chromosome.4 It has even been shown that in the ideal case population substructure can be inferred only on the basis of detailed surname analyses.
[Marc writes[ This Medieval wall carpet makes a point of noting that the first Strasbourgs were (by phenotype) black, African.
White Strausbourgs originated with incursive future Britons working their way into the top of African social hierarchy in England, Scotland, and Wales.
Map of the Steppe invasion (yellow band) into Northwest Bulgaria, Northeast Bulgaria, Thrace, and the Black Sea area. These invasions have brought the ancestors to Alexander. Pity he was born. He created so much destruction in pursuit of lands and built by and dwelt in by Africans:
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Marc quote: "These invasions have brought the ancestors to Alexander. Pity he was born. He created so much destruction in pursuit of lands and built by and dwelt in by Africans".
Marc - You know that you are my boy, but I have to beat you up on this one, it just sounds too Niggerish. Negroes all over the world sing that same song, as if they had nothing to do with it.
The fall of Black civilization had much more to do with a Black people - the Persians, than Alexander or anyone else. It was their society that was built on religious Dogma impossible for normal people to adhere to, and which self destructed. It was the vileness of Persian elites, which made it impossible to have normal and stable succession. It was their "I came from nothing" so I have to show the "old guard who's boss" stupidity which compelled them to invade and occupy Egypt.
It was their decadence and stupidity which left them with a military dependent on mercenaries and unwilling vassal armies. It was Persia's ignorance and hubris which made Egypt hate them so much, that Egypt welcomed Alexander as a savior rather than the invader that he really was. In short, it was the foolish Negroes of Persia with their originally great armies, and their desire to conquer everything and everyone - but doing it very badly - which caused the collapse of Black civilization, because when Persia fell, they took all of the Black kingdoms that they had conquered with them.
I know that you have read my posts on how the stupidity of Sub-Saharan's caused their occupation, so I won't bother going into that.
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Quote: The first victim of Persian aggression in Greece proper was Thasos, a Greek island which possessed gold mines. It became a tributary of the Achaemenid empire. The navy and the army continued onto Macedonia, which was soon added to the Persian Empire.
However, after these victories, Mardonius’ fleet was destroyed in a storm off the coast near Mount Athos. According to Herodotus, the Persians lost 300 ships and 20,000 men. Around this time, Mardonius was commanding the army in a battle in Thrace. While Mardonius was wounded in the battle, he was victorious. Nevertheless, the loss of the fleet meant that he had to retreat back into Asia Minor. He was relieved of his command by Darius, who appointed Datis and Artaphernes to lead the invasion of Greece in 490 BC, and though they were subsequently successful in capturing Naxos and destroying Eretria, they were later defeated at the Battle of Marathon.
Mardonius came back into favour under Darius' successor Xerxes I, Mardonius' cousin and brother-in-law.. Xerxes was at first not interested in renewing the war with Greece, but Mardonius repeatedly tried to convince him that he must avenge Darius' defeat. This view was opposed by another of Xerxes’ advisors, Artabanus, who urged more caution in the matter. Herodotus, who portrays Mardonius as a somewhat evil adviser (as opposed to a number of other good advisers whose arguments are never followed), says that Mardonius simply wanted to become satrap (governor) of Greece.
He was present at the Battle of Thermopylae, and after the Persian defeat at the Battle of Salamis, he attempted to convince Xerxes to stay and fight yet another campaign. This time Mardonius could not persuade Xerxes, but when Xerxes left he did become governor of those parts of Greece that had been conquered by the Persians. He subdued Macedon, ruled at that time by King Alexander I, but Alexander himself gave valuable information about Mardonius' plans to the Athenians, saying that, as a Greek, he could not bear to see Greece defeated. Then Mardonius sacked Athens, which had been deserted before the Battle of Salamis. He offered to return Athens and help rebuild the city if the Athenians would accept a truce, but the Athenians rejected the truce and prepared for another battle.
Mardonius prepared to meet them at Plataea, despite the opposition from another Persian commander, Artabazus, who, like Artabanus, did not think that Persian army could automatically defeat the Greeks. Mardonius was killed in the ensuing battle (see Battle of Plataea)
Who could blame Alexander I? It was simply a matter of a dumb Nigger and Whites who had some common sense.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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But as you know, I don't agree with equating Grimaldi with Cro-magnon. Grimaldi was a fully modern Human 400,000 years old. Cro-magnon was a hybrid, of probably Modern man and Neanderthal, who was perhaps less than 100,000 years old.
I know that you are using the White man's convention to avoid confusion, but to me, you are only cementing ignorance in this regard.
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Kalonji asked about this thread
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Thnx, I'll look into it tonight and see both sides arguments
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Blue eyes are most common in Northern Europe and Central Europe and to a lesser degree in Southern Europe, North America and southern Central Asia; Afghanistan is a notable example.[30] They are also found in parts of North Africa,[31] West Asia, and South Asia,[32] in particular the northern areas of India and Pakistan. It can rarely occur as far south as Sri Lanka.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Constantly bumping up, without adding anything or even taking a position, hardly seems useful.
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How about this. . . . . As the topic title says. White women entered Europe during medieval times... . .
Any value in this brother. . . .
= = = = =
Boris Malyarchuk Miroslava Derenko Maria Perkova Tomas Vanecek Mitochondrial Haplogroup U2d Phylogeny and Distribution Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 565-571
Abstract:
The sequencing of the entire mitochondrial DNA belonging to haplogroup U2d reveals that this clade is defined by four coding-region mutations at positions 1700, 4025, 11893, and 14926. Phylogenetic analysis suggests that western Eurasian haplogroup U2d appears to be a sister clade with the Indo-Pakistani haplogroup U2c. Results of a phylogeographic analysis of published population data on the distribution of haplogroup U2d indicate that the presence of such mtDNA lineages in Europe may be mostly a consequence of medieval migrations of nomadic tribes from the Caucasus and eastern Europe to central Europe.
= = ==
These geneticist don't know what the fugkh(is it the 21st yet?) they are talking about. And guys like KIK go around regurgitating what these genetist "interpret". If the geneticist are confused what does that make KIK et al. . . . ?
The data may be accurate but the rubber hits the road in the "intepretation" You cannot rely on racist (illogical people) to interpret the data.
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posted
Looks like the Caucasians left their homeland the Caucasus mountains during Medieval times. LOL!!
However the Cocoa-sians are indigenous to Africa!!!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Yeah. Jungle fever is a bitch. Been there. . .I know what Marc is going through. could never get into the fat ones though.
That's why I have no beef with white people . . . on an individual basis.
Quote: (The kings face is overlit, note the hands. Damn ugly White woman that boy has got).
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Cut marks on the reindeer bones likely produced by the humans' flint tools matched those found on the Neanderthal jawbone. A recreation of ancient butchering techniques by the scientists indicates the marks "may have resulted from slicing through the geniohyoid muscle (a narrow muscle at the bottom of the oral cavity) to remove the tongue," according to Rozzi, a researcher at Paris's National Center for Scientific Research, and his colleagues. Marrow from the bones appears to have also been consumed. It remains unclear, however, if a modern human killed the Neanderthal youngster outright, or if the parts were scavenged from an already dead body
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: Facts have it that the Capsammochal were the original population of Europe and during the Migration Period in Early Medieval times, today's whites first entered the continent and established today's European nations between the period of the 5th and 10th centuries.
Well, since there were cultures like the Greeks and the Romans that left not only paintings but also literature describing themselves as whites a long time before this, your suggestion is apparently false. They also described others living in Europe as white. Tacitus about the Germans in Germania 98 AD;
"The Germans themselves I should regard as aboriginal, and not mixed at all with other races through immigration or intercourse."
"For my own part, I agree with those who think that the tribes of Germany are free from all taint of intermarriages with foreign nations, and that they appear as a distinct, unmixed race, like none but themselves. Hence, too, the same physical peculiarities throughout so vast a population. All have fierce blue eyes, red hair, huge frames, fit only for a sudden exertion."
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: The Visigoths
(Latin: Visigothi, Wisigothi, Vesi, Visi, Wesi, or Wisi) were one of two main branches of the Goths, an East Germanic tribe, the Ostrogoths being the other. Together these tribes were among the barbarians who disturbed the late Roman Empire during the Migration Period. The Visigoths first emerge as a distinct people during the fourth century, initially in the Balkans, where they participated in several wars with Rome. A Visigothic army under Alaric I eventually moved into Italy and famously sacked Rome in 410.
Eventually the Visigoths were settled in southern Gaul as foederati of the Romans, the reasons for which are still subjects for debate among scholars. They soon fell out with their hosts and established their own kingdom with its capital at Toulouse. They slowly extended their authority into Hispania, displacing the Vandals and Alans. Their rule in Gaul was cut short in 507 at the Battle of Vouillé, when they were defeated by the Franks under Clovis I. Thereafter the only territory north of the Pyrenees that the Visigoths held was Septimania and their kingdom was limited to Hispania, which came completely under the control of their small governing elite, at the expense of the Byzantine province of Spania and the Suebic Kingdom of Galicia.
In or around 589, the Visigoths, under Reccared I, formerly Arians, converted to the Nicene faith. In their kingdom, the century that followed was dominated by the Councils of Toledo and the episcopacy. Historical sources for the seventh century are relatively sparse. In 711 or 712 the Visigoths, including their king and many of their leading men, were killed in the Battle of Guadalete by a force of invading Arabs and Berbers. The kingdom quickly collapsed thereafter, a phenomenon which has led to much debate among scholars concerning its causes. Gothic identity survived the fall of the kingdom, however, especially in the Kingdom of Asturias and the Marca Hispanica, but the "Visigoths" as a people disappeared.
Of what remains of the Visigoths in Spain and Portugal there are several churches and an increasing number of archaeological finds, but most notably a large number of Spanish, Portuguese, and other Romance language given names and surnames. The Visigoths were the only people to found new cities in western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire and before the rise of the Carolingians. Until the Late Middle Ages, the greatest Visigothic legacy, which is no longer in use, was their law code, the Liber iudiciorum, which formed the basis for legal procedure in most of Christian Iberia for centuries after their kingdom's demise.
According to the geographer Ptolemy (c.90-c.168 AD) the Goths were living in present Poland in the second century AD. In the second half of the second and in the beginning of the third century they moved to the Black Sea, where Ukraine is today. After that, the Goths split up in Wisigoths and Ostrogoths, and the rest is history so to speak.
The Gothic historian Jordanes wrote in the 6th century the history of the Goths, based on an earlier work by Cassiodorus (served under the Ostrogothian king Theodorik in Ravenna). He placed the original home of the Goths in Scandia, today's Scandinavia. According to this the Goths would have moved from Scandinavia to present Poland in the second scentury. However the majority of archaeologists of today place their original home in Poland.
posted
What amazes me looking at DNA-results taken today is how very little Europeans and black Africans have in common, despite known connections in the past. If Europe were loaded withs blacks in the past they must have had very, very little in common with the blacks of today's Africa.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jan 2010
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Are you saying there were "lots" of Africans in Greece during dynastic times?
That depends on what you mean by "lots". African E lineages are found among Greeks up to 24% percent, almost a quarter. The same percent is seen of Asiatic J lineages. Of course these people were still a minority since the majority of lineages are still indigenous to Europe. The study states that African presence was in Greece either during dynastic times or before, when the Sahara dried up. Archaeology seems to support the latter.
quote:What about the neolithic times thing?? Are you BS ing me Rasol? I got the impression that Neolithic was about 10Kya. The author is saying that the African admixture in Greece was more recent ie 4-5Ky BC.
Neolithic is a description of technological industry, specifically the new stone tools but more importantly the domestication of plants and animals. The Neolithic began in Southwest Asia around 10Kya but was introduced to Greece 5-4Kya. This was the same time period that "negroid" skulls were found in Greece as well as the time period that correlates to African E lineages.
Rasol is not BSing you so much as you are to yourself. Perhaps out of confusion(?)
quote:So I don't see your point. THERE WERE AFRICAN TYPE PEOPLE IN AG (CLASSICAL), in control or living there prior to the Macedonians conquest.
Incorrect. Peoples of African ancestry or type were in Greece long before Classical times. Which is why Classical Greek portraits do not show any black peoples, though genetics does show there is black ancestry.
Some people like 'Kemson' refuses to believe this and makes ridiculous claims that white Greeks portrayed in Classical work are somehow frauds. LOL
So you believe that the E carriers in Greece were originally Black?? Consider that they had to travel a long way before they reached the Greek Isles up and over a long period of time through Egypt, the Levant, Anatolia...It's likely they asorbed a lot of differnt genes along the way.
Posts: 682 | From: East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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posted
After reviewing this thread, I have detected a couple of minor errors in my responses since I was researching real-time. These minor contradictions don't change the fundamental truth of Whites=Albinism, but I wanted to bump the post to give others an opportunity to address any section that presented additional questions regarding the topic.
Also, I wished to apologize to Rasol , for this thread is the last thread in which he posted having run away after receiving some a one-sided thrashing.
-------------------- Selenium gives real life and true reality Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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