posted
I wonder what finally broke Kemp. He quit after our exchange in his thread where he declared victory for Whites racists in this whole debate.
I think I embarrassed him when I exposed the fact that he was recycling comments from other messages boards!
It's always fun to witness these guys quitting the board in defeat. As I recall what finally broke Evil Euro was Charlie Bass's emails to Charles Loring Brace. Euro did not have the courage to email Brace himself to find out if his interpretation of his research was valid. He knew he would get exposed if he did.
That's how you handle these racist trolls. You have to challenge them to back up their claims. They know they look foolish when they can't and often they can't take it.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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Leaving in tears? you gotta be kidding me, you probably don't know who your ancestors are and you came here because your daddy is black and you want a piece of Egypt too
-------------------- "Behind every great fortune,there is a crime!" Charlie "Lucky" Luciano Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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man this place is confusing! who are the racists? are they the ones saying Ancient Egyptians were black or the other lot?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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All the freaking minorities without tags on them are the racists! rejects and they unload their frustration here to boost their low self esteem!
-------------------- "Behind every great fortune,there is a crime!" Charlie "Lucky" Luciano Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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^ What do you mean "without tags"?? Also, you are definitely nuts if you think I have "low self-esteem" or am "racist" for acknowledging a FACT of culture and history!
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Leaving in tears? you gotta be kidding me, you probably don't know who your ancestors are and you came here because your daddy is black and you want a piece of Egypt too
LOL I'm betting I know waay more about my people and ancestors than YOU do about yours!! And again I'm not black or of African ancestry! One does not need to be to acknowledge the FACT that Egypt was black African, you moron!
Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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-------------------- "Behind every great fortune,there is a crime!" Charlie "Lucky" Luciano Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: It's always fun to witness these guys quitting the board in defeat. As I recall what finally broke Evil Euro was Charlie Bass's emails to Charles Loring Brace
What thread was this debate in?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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hhmmm well just from this page im seeing you not living up to your name lucky, surely you're not saying they weren't black?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: man this place is confusing! who are the racists? are they the ones saying Ancient Egyptians were black or the other lot?
I think you if stick around and read people's post objectively you will be able to separate the racists from the Egalitarians.
A racist is someone who disrespects other people because of their racial or ethnic background.
Disagreeing that the Ancient Egyptians were Black doesn't make you a racist in and of itself.
Claiming a certain group is inferior or hurling racial insults makes you a racist.
Mike and I agree that the Ancient Egyptians were Black but Mike is clearly a racist as evidence by his camel humping Turk and anti-White comments.
You will never see me disparage another person because of their race.
Another poster named Masreyya on the other hand believes that the modern Egyptian population is reflective of the Ancient population being neither Black nor White but a more varied society. I've never seen her make any racist comments.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: man this place is confusing! who are the racists? are they the ones saying Ancient Egyptians were black or the other lot?
I think you if stick around and read people's post objectively you will be able to separate the racists from the Egalitarians.
A racist is someone who disrespects other people because of their racial or ethnic background.
Disagreeing that the Ancient Egyptians were Black doesn't make you a racist in and of itself.
Claiming a certain group is inferior or hurling racial insults makes you a racist.
Mike and I agree that the Ancient Egyptians were Black but Mike is clearly a racist as evidence by his camel humping Turk and anti-White comments.
You will never see me disparage another person because of their race.
Another poster named Masreyya on the other hand believes that the modern Egyptian population is reflective of the Ancient population being neither Black nor White but a more varied society. I've never seen her make any racist comments.
Is this the verdict? hallelujah Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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Eventually he was challenged to ask Brace himself but never did. Shortly after he disappeared from the site fleeing back to Dienekes.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Since Obama took office the scum of the earth have been purchasing guns in record numbers across the USA. Some, among the scum, like Kemp and Luciano are flocking here to lash out.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Since Obama took office the scum of the earth have been purchasing guns in record numbers across the USA. Some, among the scum, like Kemp and Luciano are flocking here to lash out.
I must have said something to turn your stomach Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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-------------------- "Behind every great fortune,there is a crime!" Charlie "Lucky" Luciano Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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^ Relax, Apocalypse. His stomach will turn once we smack his sorryass the way we did his friend 'Kemp'! Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I don't think Lucky is capable of carrying a debate anywhere near an academic level. He's just a troll.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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Morpheus, I do not think anyone is going to mistake you for Carl Sagan, isn't it like the pot calling the kettle black? If not conversing on an academpc level makes someone a troll you, Djehuti and Apocalypse need to find yourself a spot under the bridge.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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The people in the Ancient Egyptian thread who claim to be so informed are ignorant to see that they have been blinded by American world view of how to divide people into "black" and "white".
Nobody ever said that Ancient Egyptians were "white" in the Scandinavian sense! And nobody said that they were "black" in the Kongo sense of that word.
The world is not just black and white!!!!
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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This board is being hijacked by low lives who want to impose their twisted point of view on the rest of the civilized world, IT WILL NOT WORK, keep fighting hard you have a lot to prove, i don't have to prove ANYTHING, when you come across a regular white American average Joe person in places like Barnes and Nobel try to tell them Egypt was black and see how he would look at you. GOD forbids if he looks at you funny or laughs at you, he will then be "RACIST" we all know about the race card, everyone is familiar with it. Just to show you the difference between me and pathetic individuals like yourselves, as far as the US government's concerned i'm not even a minority!! surprise!!! yes, you heard right, as an egyptian i don't fall under the minority category, that means the government gives you grants, loans, public assistance, food stamps and what have you, Egyptian Americans don't qualify for any type of financial assistance not that we need it! yet we see you all on the street under the bridges, jobless, homeless, sell drugs, big ass wrap sheets and busted without a penny to your names!! Lazy as all get out, do you honestly believe that Ancient Egyptians built this great history if they had an iota of residue of genes similar to yours???? hell NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! We are on the other hand as Egyptians here in the States, doctors, engineers, scholars, scientist, business owners, even cab drivers in NYC but at least we all work hard and we contribute to this country's success and pay for your welfare while you sit on your ass and argue here on this site.
Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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This is my favorite: "professor" Gates, Obama's buddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwwfWa-Yz4U&feature=related Bunch of retards, get a clue enough whining and start doing something useful! Adios for now. Oh i'm not quitting yet, just no point of arguing with no good losers like you people!! go bang your heads against the wall now..
Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: Morpheus, I do not think anyone is going to mistake you for Carl Sagan, isn't it like the pot calling the kettle black? If not conversing on an academpc level makes someone a troll you, Djehuti and Apocalypse need to find yourself a spot under the bridge.
At the very least if you are going to make a claim about an academic subject you should be able to provide a reliable source that supports your statements. That is what we have done time and time again. Some of us have even gone as far as to email scholars and ask them questions to confirm that we are interpreting their work correctly.
quote:Originally posted by madame f: The people in the Ancient Egyptian thread who claim to be so informed are ignorant to see that they have been blinded by American world view of how to divide people into "black" and "white".
Nobody ever said that Ancient Egyptians were "white" in the Scandinavian sense! And nobody said that they were "black" in the Kongo sense of that word.
The world is not just black and white!!!!
Who are you calling ignorant? It's not nice to generalize.
If you want to get technical what we are debating is the range of physical characteristics the Ancient Egyptian people possessed, their population affinities as well as the geographic origin of their culture. We can put up pictures of modern people to illustrate our point. A picture is worth 1000 words. Terms like Black and White tend to vary according to one's definition. But you'll have to forgive us for using words common in everyday speech in order to communicate our point.
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Is Brace a geneticist?
Brace is a biological anthropologist. Here's his bio:
posted
You know what.. i have absolutely have no problems with JEWS (HEBREWS) they have a great culture and we share a big part of our history, it's sickening to hear those clowns saying they were blacks!!
Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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Dumbass did not even follow the logic. Even with the Tyrone quote,
No wonder racists are stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You know what.. i have absolutely have no problems with JEWS (HEBREWS) they have a great culture and we share a big part of our history, it's sickening to hear those clowns saying they were blacks!!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^ Of course. Remember the recent studies that show racists have low IQs. It sure explains a lot of things about these trolls. Posts: 26322 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I do think this person is Dirk,he trys to deflect from the conversation by trying to bring up poverty or esteem issues...he thinks affects only AAs I am waiting for him to post some so-called anti- Afrocentric out dated comments from some Black wanna be right wing commentators.
We are on the other hand as Egyptians, Jamaicans,Pakistanis,African Americans,Nigerians,Chinese,Somalians,Cambodians here in the States, doctors, engineers, scholars, scientist, business owners, even cab drivers in NYC but at least we all work hard and we contribute to this country's success and pay for Lucky Luciano welfare while he sit on his ass and TROLL here on this site.
To the folks who always said it dosn't if the Egyptians were Black or White,I say you dont know or study historgraphy...why historians wrote what they wrote.there was a time when influancial historians and ethnologist...took every civilization they could find in Africa weather high or low and ascribed them to white or outside influence...then turned around and posed the most ridduclious question where is the civilizations of the negroes..Ethnographers did the samething whatever people they found attractive or with what they considered good qualities they ascribed to Whites or out side influences and hardly any Black people escaped that not even the most bashed and scorned Kongolese...Why?.. The Kongo once had a high civilization that sent ambassadors to Rome and Portugal in the late Middle ages and early renaissance periods. The Civilizations of Kemet,Kush,Axum was high on their list of places to whitened or de-nigrified...Kush is intresting in that they would alternatively switch them from Black to white depending on the situation they were in...if for example they were storming through Kemet all the way to Palestine and beyound they would be white or white influenced...if they were bounded captives then they were Negroes. Now unfortunatly this type of thinking still persist in some form or another in Egyptology just not as obviously outlandish. So folks this is what we argue against,
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Let me just say that people Like Luciano are a dime a dozen. They rant out of fear.
They are afraid of Black people so they attack them any chance they get behind the safety of there computers. Black people have been influential in society and the mainstream being looked on as Inferior. They are afraid just how they would change society being looked on as people who did create the greatest civilization known to man.
Insulting blacks makes them feel better about themselves and since they live in Africa, they want to be looked upon as being apart of Africa but not being looked as apart of Black Africa.
No one should get angry at any thing a person Like Luciano says because he is just a sad person who knows deep down that Egypt is part of Black Africa. All you do is just post FACTS and watch them as they jump around like dogs failing to refute it.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Both had fine European-like hair. No way the bust is a realistic representation of her in actual life. It is either a forgery, A later representation of what she was thought to maybe of looked like, or a funerary tribute offering from Nubians perhaps, that had never seen her.
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: It is not valid as we have her mummy and it looks nothing like the sculpture
What distinctions do you see between the mummy and the sculpture that you feel rationalizes this comment?
The shape of the face looks very similar to the bust. The bust was also made during her lifetime which suggests that the facial thickness and skin color is a reliable indicator of her living appearance.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: What distinctions do you see between the mummy and the sculpture that you feel rationalizes this comment?
The shape of the face looks very similar to the bust. The bust was also made during her lifetime which suggests that the facial thickness and skin color is a reliable indicator of her living appearance. [/QB]
In what way do you perceive the bust as resemblng tha actual mummy? Even the nose and lips don't seem to be as wide as the nose and lips of the bust considering it has been wrapped with bandages. They both seem rather narrow considering that fact. Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Why are people speculating on what the Mummy would look like alive, when we have experts who told us who the mummies mostly resembled for everyone to read:
James Harris and Edward Wente conducted an x-ray analysis of the New Kingdom royal mummies with the results published in their book X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). Included in the work were cephalograms of Pharaohs of the XVII-XX Dynasties and their queens.
First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism.
The Elder Lady possesses an occipital bun comparable to Mesolithic Nubians.
Now we have real studies simple comparing the Elder Lady to Nubians. What do you have in your studies that states that the Elder lady was a non-African? Stop with the stupid eyeball witness.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Then he like Keita offers nothing but opinion and nothing more. No scientific evidence to back it up.
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: In what way do you perceive the bust as resemblng tha actual mummy? Even the nose and lips don't seem to be as wide as the nose and lips of the bust considering it has been wrapped with bandages. They both seem rather narrow considering that fact.
Consider that the mummy's pretty shriveled up.
The problem with your approach is that you are unscientifically eyeballing a mummy and taking note of only a few traits. That is not the proper way to determine a skeleton's biological affinity. You need to take lots of measurements of many different features to more accurately assess that kind of affinity.
Posts: 7103 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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You of all people should not be talking about people who give scientific evidence. When people ask you to prove your points you turn tail and run, only to come back repeating the same tired foolishness.
You don't offer anything but your eyeball witness to what you think you see in an unpainted statue or a mummy portrait. Now what do you have to counter what was said in the X-Ray studie of the mummies?
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Dumbass did not even follow the logic. Even with the Tyrone quote,
No wonder racists are stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You know what.. i have absolutely have no problems with JEWS (HEBREWS) they have a great culture and we share a big part of our history, it's sickening to hear those clowns saying they were blacks!!
Prove your intelligence please, post some more photos Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Then he like Keita offers nothing but opinion and nothing more. No scientific evidence to back it up.
Huh? Do you think that DNA is the only body of evidence we can use to assess the Ancient Egyptian's biological affinities?
Keita and Brace have both studied the skeletal remains of the Ancient Egyptians. They have plenty of scientific evidence to back up their claims. I'd recommend that you read their studies rather than making such ill-informed comments.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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You of all people should not be talking about people who give scientific evidence. When people ask you to prove your points you turn tail and run, only to come back repeating the same tired foolishness.
You don't offer anything but your eyeball witness to what you think you see in an unpainted statue or a mummy portrait. Now what do you have to counter what was said in the X-Ray studie of the mummies?
Peace
I'm not sure what mummy or mummies they actually x-rayed. Was this one of them?
This mummy doesn't appear to have much if any prognathism or a receding chin for that matter. My brothers best friend is of German descent with red hair and very fair skin and has prognathism and a recessed chin. Are you saying this mummy has prognathism and a recessed chin? Are you suggesting that white people can't possibly have prognathism and a recessed chin?
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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Ahmed, what is your excuse for Queen Tiye's sculpture?
of course she does not look like an African at all this is one typical faces in Egypt today. btw,why do u think that sculptor were so perfect in creating them! why do not u consider the possibility that the sculptor was not so accurate(which is indeed under the light of the mummy's photos)again pics do not prove anything about the roots of the Egyptians ,only genes are able to solve such an issue
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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She is the eyeball witness queen. She never comes with scientific data, and when presented in front of her face, she turns tail and runs. Really you should not expect her to do anything more then post a statue and claim that "It looks European". That is her scientific fact. I have seen here post some statues that were labeled African by others, and she labels them European because the paint is faded.
She is just the female version of Patriot. Maybe not as bad as him but she is close.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: I'm not sure what mummy or mummies they actually x-rayed. Was this one of them?
Yes that's Elder Lady, believed to be Queen Tiye.
It's the same mummy whose skull Harris and Wente analyzed.
They don't just talk about her jaw structure but also the shape of her cranium which is similar to Mesolithic Nubians.
This would strongly suggest that she looked like a modern Southern Egyptian or Northern Sudanese as her bust illustrates.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Then he like Keita offers nothing but opinion and nothing more. No scientific evidence to back it up.
Huh? Do you think that DNA is the only body of evidence we can use to assess the Ancient Egyptian's biological affinities?
Keita and Brace have both studied the skeletal remains of the Ancient Egyptians. They have plenty of scientific evidence to back up their claims. I'd recommend that you read their studies rather than making such ill-informed comments.
My comments are only ill-informed to you because they oppose yours.
Are they geneticists or does their opinions on the phenotypical diversity of North and East Africans rely basically upon their opinions?
My guess is that one is biased in his opinions and the other is merely playing it safe to avoid being labeled racist and nothing more.
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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I don't care for your eyeball witness of your German friend.
All I want is FACTS, I gave you FACTS from the X-Ray study that speaks about Queen Tiye and her Mom. Now what you are supposed to do is post counter FACTS that refute what was posted. If you cannot refute what was posted, Then why bring up something so stupid as your German Friend. I can do the same lame arguement that you put forth Like saying this girl:
Proves that Africans can have hair like the Queen Tiye mummie. Now do you see how stupid your arguement sounds?
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
You know.they do not like to talk about culture and migration,language affliations, body measurements and so on...they rather take some unfinished unpainted sculpture or some bleached out dried up mummies to try and make an argument out of that...Dirk aka Lucky Luciano and Simple Girl we are still waiting for those answers I posed to you on other threads.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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She is the eyeball witness queen. She never comes with scientific data, and when presented in front of her face, she turns tail and runs. Really you should not expect her to do anything more then post a statue and claim that "It looks European". That is her scientific fact. I have seen here post some statues that were labeled African by others, and she labels them European because the paint is faded.
She is just the female version of Patriot. Maybe not as bad as him but she is close.
Peace
You mean the way you keep flaunting this statue as being black African?
[IMG] [/IMG]
But when I post pictures they have no meaning but yours does.
I'll admit yours does look black African to me.Does this look typically black African to you?
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