posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Arwa:
Mike,

This is not a subject or topic where you could cite from Bernard Lewis or other Anti-Muslim and Anti-Arab so called 'scholars'.

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Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Arwa:
Whose common sense?

I am pretty sure today is the first time you heard the name Darod, and already you make yourself an expert. The only reason we chose to communicate to you, Mike, is that we all know you are just a teenager boy who is about to discover the world.

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Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ This sounds like another Ashraf propaganda for prestige purposes only done so for an entire clan.

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Posts: 54 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by horn-afrik:

daroods origin is indisputable his tomp is still resereved in NE somali and jabarti is in yemen, so both historial and physical evidence are aviable. however one ancestor 12k years ago doesnt make one an arab.

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quote:

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Are you familiar with the east african'sand arab's naming system.

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Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Originally posted by horn-afrik:

daroods origin is indisputable his tomp is still resereved in NE somali and jabarti is in yemen, so both historial and physical evidence are aviable. however one ancestor 12k years ago doesnt make one an arab.

---

Forgive me since I am not too familiar with Somali clan geneology. What I do know is that the Somali clan system like many clan systems in Africa and other parts of the world are more so rooted in social grouping than in actual genetics. Hence, to say that all members of a clan are directly descended from a common ancestor is far-fetched. It is more likely that various families adopted this ancestor or personage or were assimilated by the presumed clan. Also, even if this Darood was an actual living person, if he did indeed exist 12,000 years ago I also doubt that landmark claimed to be his tomb is actually it. Has anyone excavated this so-called tomb of Darood??

quote:

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Are you familiar with the east african'sand arab's naming system.

---

If you are refering to the lineage system in which ones paternal line is traced from father to forefather all the way to the clan or tribal founder, then yes.

---

well in somalia clan is social grouping but rather paternal lineage, every one in that particular clan can trace their forefathers all the way to the clan. my grandfather was somali darood and we have written record of our "abtiris" (paternal line). you cant just assume without actuall knowlegde of somalis.

as for the tomb it is not some new found, it is been there since his death and his descendent have been going to his memorial every year for almost 13 handred years. why would we want disturb the dead? just to serve your curiosity.

haylan somalia

Posts: 54 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by horn-afrik:

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Originally posted by horn-afrik:

daroods origin is indisputable his tomp is still resereved in NE somali and jabarti is in yemen, so both historial and physical evidence are aviable. however one ancestor 12k years ago doesnt make one an arab.

---

Forgive me since I am not too familiar with Somali clan geneology. What I do know is that the Somali clan system like many clan systems in Africa and other parts of the world are more so rooted in social grouping than in actual genetics. Hence, to say that all members of a clan are directly descended from a common ancestor is far-fetched. It is more likely that various families adopted this ancestor or personage or were assimilated by the presumed clan. Also, even if this Darood was an actual living person, if he did indeed exist 12,000 years ago I also doubt that landmark claimed to be his tomb is actually it. Has anyone excavated this so-called tomb of Darood??

quote:

---

Are you familiar with the east african'sand arab's naming system.

---

If you are refering to the lineage system in which ones paternal line is traced from father to forefather all the way to the clan or tribal founder, then yes.

---

well in somalia clan is social grouping but rather paternal lineage, every one in that particular clan can trace their forefathers all the way to the clan. my grandfather was somali darood and we have written record of our "abtiris" (paternal line). you cant just assume without actuall knowlegde of somalis.

as for the tomb it is not some new found, it is been there since his death and his descendent have been going to his memorial every year for almost 13 handred years. why would we want disturb the dead? just to serve your curiosity.

haylan somalia his resting place

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Posts: 54 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:
To learn more about Darod you can check out Dierk Lange's, Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa, the name Darood or Darud among the Somali is due to their relationship to the Mahra and other proto-Arabian tribes.

As Lange says, the "remnants of ancient Canaanite-Israelite cult names, and group identities are widespread among the different Somali clans." p. 261.

Some of these names include Makir (Machir), Rahanwayn (Ru'ayn or Ruhawayn) Wubar (Wabara or Ubar), Yubir and Hubir (Heber), Sama'al or Somala, Ishaq (or Isaac), Magaado(Magdi'el) Afar or Anfar (Aphren) etc., the name Darood is the Mahra or south Arabian and Somali pronunication of the more modern Arabic (Dawud or David).


"Altogether the names and legends of the northern Somali clan-families indicate that their ancestors were familiar with the details of teh biblical genealogical charter as it applied to their specific clan organization before they had left South Arabia." Lange 200 p. 276.

Darud was the name of Mahra towns in southern Arabia as well. The Arabian Mahri claimed to have come from the Kudha'a of Arabia, Himyarites who are the Kaath of Josephus, Kuth of Abyssinian genealogists and Kuhath or Qahith "son of Levi".

---

Like I knew all along. There is no way somalis and ethiopians could be a pure African people. To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father. If you look at African Americans who are fathered by white male they tend to have sharp cacausoid features as well. These people below are mixed race.Even there culture is very middle eastern. I personally do not believe these people share PN2 with west Africans.















[/QB

Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Avee:
To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father.

---

Where do Caucasoid features originate? Can you perhaps define where and when these features arose specifically and according to whom? Btw not all Somalis and Ethiopians are mixed not even the majority. If you think otherwise prove it!

P.s. the following male also has sharp features but we know his people (Tutsis) have predominately E3a (E1b1a) without any non African admixture so how did this happen Avee? Do tell....if you can, is it magic?

Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

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Originally posted by Avee:
To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father.

---

Where do Caucasoid features originate? Can you perhaps define where and when these features arose specifically and according to whom? Btw not all Somalis and Ethiopians are mixed not even the majority. If you think otherwise prove it!

P.s. the following male also has sharp features but we know his people (Tutsis) have predominately E3a (E1b1a) without any non African admixture so how did this happen Avee? Do tell....if you can, is it magic?

---

Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by horn-afrik:
I posted those pictures in another thread and they dont all have arab origins, some of them are hawiye, the first girl and last guy are hawiye(no arab links what so ever). since when does one ancestor 13k years ago make some one mixed(for me it is over 40 genations ago).

the beautiful about our cultere( Ethiopia and Somalia) is that it is not all folk tales, but it is supported by historical records as well as hard physical evidences

let me make this clear the tomb are not worshipped, it is forbidden in slam, peaple just cellebrate their memorial

---

Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by lamin:
Avee, are you really an African? Your talk is not just the way Africans talk.

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Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avee:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avee:
To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father.

---

Where do Caucasoid features originate? Can you perhaps define where and when these features arose specifically and according to whom? Btw not all Somalis and Ethiopians are mixed not even the majority. If you think otherwise prove it!

P.s. the following male also has sharp features but we know his people (Tutsis) have predominately E3a (E1b1a) without any non African admixture so how did this happen Avee? Do tell....if you can, is it magic?

---

Am from a ´bantu country with a sizable tutsi/ Hima population. To bantu these people are as Alien as horners or arabs. We look at them as foreigners. There is not doubt in my mind that these people do not belong to E3a like west Africans. It is not just their features but their hair texture too. Not to forget their culture. I was surprised when I learned they are not related to horners. Their female tradtional dress is middle eastern/ horn of Africa looking. bantu feel more kinship to nilo-saharans than they do tutsi or bahima as call them in my country. They are aliens. No way can they be of west African stock.

---

Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:
Avee said

---

Like I knew all along. There is no way somalis and ethiopians could be a pure African people. To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father. If you look at African Americans who are fathered by white male they tend to have sharp cacausoid features as well. These people below are mixed race.Even there culture is very middle eastern. I personally do not believe these people share PN2 with west Africans."



But, on the contrary the features of this Somali man except for his hair are typical of early and prehistorical east Africans. The culture of Middle Easterners was first influenced by early East Africans known as Arabs. And the entire region of the Sahel stretching to West Africa has of course been influenced by contact with the Middle East.
The Somalis get their non-African hair mainly from recent Middle Eastern and Yemeni contact over the past 3 centuries. Straight hair, however, has little to do with the peoples like early Yemenites and mostly "jet black" Qureish of Mecca whom the Jabarti's claim descent from nor other Khadar or near black tribes predominant in Arabia until the 15th century.

The narrow elongated facial features of the Fulani, Danakil, Samburu, Somali, etc. have little to do with non-African influence and are found in Elmenteitan skeletons dating back before the historic era and are related to evolution in the desedrt like areas.

Their are very few Africans in the Sahel that are purely African and that is because they originally occupied the neolithci Sahara and north Africa which has had much contact through slavery and settlement with non African peoples. most of these do not have Somali features that includes the Tuareg, Hausa, Teda, Tibbu and even many of the Mande speaking tribes.

Peoples like the Somali and Tuareg get their less than woolly hair mainly from people like the Iraqis Syrians and Turks who have settled up until late times in the area. Their has been recent influence from Iraq in particular in the last few centuries.


El Moran (warrior) of the Samburu
His "sharp" features have little to do with being mixed with being "Caucasoid" as ancient skeletal evidence of Kenyans has proven.

You will in fact rarely see a European with features as "sharp" or refined as many east Africans.

Also, the populations of Arabia were mainly near black and kinky haired people up until several centuries ago.
Quote from the 14th century - “'Red', in the speech of the people from the Hijaz, means fair-complexioned and this color is rare amongst the Arabs. This is the meaning of the saying, ‘…a red man as if he is one of the slaves’. The speaker meant that his color is like that of the slaves who were captured from the Christians of Syria, Rome and Persia.” From Al Dhahabi of Damascus Syria, in Seyar al Nubala’a, cited on p. 55, The Unknown Arabs, 2002, by Tariq Berry.

According to Richmond Palmer's book, Bornu Sahara and Sudan, Arabia was considered part of Bilad es Sudan or "land of the blacks" by peoples of the North in the early Islamic era - by Syrians like Al Umari - and that is why the earliest Islamic "Moors" who invaded north Africa and Spain from Arabia are referred to as black as melted pitch which is the color of many Somali and Arabians. Early Arabians are described by non-Arabs as jet black and dark brownish black (Akhdar).

Also the Arabs were mostly kinky haired and not straight haired like the slaves of the Arabs were said to have been. As early Arab linguist Ibn Mandur said, "“kinky hair was the hair Arabs had and that lank hair was the hair of the Persian”.

Al Mubarrad born in Basra Iraq said in the 9th century. "The Arabs used to take pride in there darkness and blackness and they had a distaste for a fair skin..."

The Qureish came from a tribe known as Kenanah otherwise called Canaanites. They still live in Arabia and Israel/Palestine and in Israel are still black some as black as jet.



El Moran of the Kenya

The Samburu/Masai, Oromo and Somali and other east Africans do not get their refined features from being "impure Africans."

On the other hand ancient and early Arabs or semites were affiliated with black Africans. Rock art, skeletal and archeological evidence of Arabia and the Syro-ARabian deserts validates this.


Shammar Arabian (a Ru'alla or Ruwalla related tribe)


Henna bearded man of the Somali (bin Sama'al) of the same stock.

The early Yemenite Rahawiyyin or Ru'wayn (also the tribe in Somalia called Rahawayn or Rahanwayn ) of Himyar and Rawalla or Ru'alla bin An'aes are both descended from an ancient Arabian chief named "Ra'wani" or "el Ar'awi" in later Arab genealogies better known in the west as the Biblical Reu'el, while the name Shammar is obviously the Shammah or Samma son of Reuel of Esau (el Aes). (Genesis 36:17)

Until the 15th century people that looked like Somalis and other east Africans predominated in Arabia and the region of western Yemen extending north toward Ta'if and Mecca was known as Kush, Kenaan, Siyan (Zion) and Yishar-el before these became place names in Syria. (See the Bible Came from Arabia by Kamal Salibi).

Al Sama and Sama'al are names of an ancient Arabian clan of the Sabaeans (batn Himyar) mentioned in Islamic Yemenite sources and earlier sources. (Mad'aj p. 91) The names may very well refer to the same tribe and be the root of the name Sam whom the Somaali (or bin Sama'al) and Shammar claim descent from.

Ibn Rabbu of 9th c. Cordoba quoted an Madhij of the clan of El Nakha in Yemen and Hadramaut saying one of the 7 rare things in this world was a fair-skinned Arab and that a "fair-skinned" Arab was "inconceivable".

Modern dark-skinned descendants of ancient Arabians like the Qarra and Mahra of Oman told colonial observers they originated in Africa.


Yafi- Yahar members of the Yemen

Early Islamic Yemenite sources say they belonged to the Ru'ayn Himyarites of Arabia (see Abd'ul Muhsin Mad'aj. The Yemen in Early Islam, 1988. p.91)

Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
If as the reference says that Arabs that looked like Africans were the dominate type in Arabia up until the 15th century, Then the question that needs to be asked is what happened?

Are we to believe that there was a ethnic cleansing of these people?

Does Hatred of Dark skin factor into this?

Peace

---

this is where the recessive genes comes in, they were "dark skin caucasians" (cant think of better term atm) to begin with and inter marrying with turks and other light skinned arabised asians didnt help preserving their dark skin. if you ever been to Saudi Arabia and yemen you'd know that they are darker and more negriod than say Iraqi or Palestine.

here some visuals to help you understand better, first one somali/russian, second one somali/philippino. after just one genaration almost no african traits left.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:

Many clans throughout Africa and the Middle East claim descent from Mohammed's family of the Quraish.

On the other hand its probable that some of the Jabarti lineages did originate to some extent since the time of Mohammed from Quraish clans.

Actually, Qadiriyah son of Ismail son of Ibrahim son of Abdisamad sounds a lot like the legendary or ancient Yemenite Qaydhar son of Ismail son of Ibrahim who descends from Abu Shams or Saba and is Isma'il sometimes called the father of Qahtan.

Lange adds "it should be mentioned that Darood claim certain Arab tribes living in the Saudi Arabian province of Asir, in the Yemenite province of Hadramaut, and in northern Oman as their kin. Referring to them by their eponymous ancestor they call them in line with their own designation Darood Ismaaiil, Asiir Ismaaiil and Suri Ismaaiil." p. 261 Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa: African Centered and Canaanite-Israelite Perspectives (2004)

This again links the roots of the name of Darud or Darood with the pre-Arabic speaking Mahri or Mahra or Maheyra and Shahri or Shahara groups of ancient Yemen, Oman and the Asir region (Jizan, Tehama) regions.

---

quote:

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Most historians recognize Darod as a historical figure. For one thing he and his lineage seems to have been mentioned by al Masudi.

Dierk Lange also mentions that although the folklore surrounding Darod and Ishaq seem based on earlier traditions of similar figures in the Koran and Bible they are individuals whose tombs are visited by modern Somalis.

Of Darod and Ishaq it is said "Both Somali clan ancestors are worshipped during pilgrimmages to their tombs.These lie in Northern Somalia 70 km from each other with the tomb of the elder Daarood located further inland and less frequented." p. 260 Ancient Kingdoms of Western Africa

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Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by horn-afrik:

well in somalia clan is social grouping but rather paternal lineage, every one in that particular clan can trace their forefathers all the way to the clan. my grandfather was somali darood and we have written record of our "abtiris" (paternal line). you cant just assume without actuall knowlegde of somalis.

---

quote:

---

as for the tomb it is not some new found, it is been there since his death and his descendent have been going to his memorial every year for almost 13 hundred years. why would we want disturb the dead? just to serve your curiosity.

---

Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by horn-afrik:

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
If as the reference says that Arabs that looked like Africans were the dominate type in Arabia up until the 15th century, Then the question that needs to be asked is what happened?

Are we to believe that there was a ethnic cleansing of these people?

Does Hatred of Dark skin factor into this?

Peace

---

this is where the recessive genes comes in, they were "dark skin caucasians" (cant think of better term atm) to begin with and inter marrying with turks and other light skinned arabised asians didnt help preserving their dark skin. if you ever been to Saudi Arabia and yemen you'd know that they are darker and more negriod than say Iraqi or Palestine.

here some visuals to help you understand better, first one somali/russian, second one somali/philippino. after just one genaration almost no african traits left.

---

Well considering that scientifically there is no such thing as "caucasians" with the only true Caucasians being the people of the Caucasus Mountains, there really is no racial term to use at all. But I get your point. Considering that the offspring of Horn Africans and Eurasians tend to look more like the Eurasian parent, it's not surprising too see how admixture could affect indigenous Arabians who looked not much different. Although this is just part of it.

I believe another reason is that the Arab media itself tends not to show the darker skinned or black type people, considering that such folk are alot more common than many people believe from what I've read and the pictures I've seen of the populace from Doug and Dana. Like Indian media, the focus is usually on the 'fair-and-lovely' types if you know what I mean.

There is already an ongoing discussion on what the 'true' Arabs look like here.

By the way, is the woman in the bottom pic the half-Filipina/half-Somali model Amira Ahmed?

Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
Avee

What you fail to understand is that Tutsis are every bit West African as the Hutu Bantus. In fact Tutsis ARE BAntu.

Whatever case you can make for there features or hair, They are more related to other West Africans then East.

To me, the Tutsis are no different then the Fulani. Who are Another West African group with fine features yet have E3a at 100%.

What bothers me is how Africans can look at other Africans and find excuses to hate and seperate.

Unity is the Key.

Peace

---

King, you are talking to a bantu. So I know what am talking about. Yes some genetic studies say Tutsi are not different from bantu(doubt that). Question is are those studies real? Reality tells us something else. The Tutsi are not only physically different from bantus but their culture is different too. I have been arround Africa and can say I fit in any west African culture from senegal to south Africa. When I meet, say, Ghanian or senegalis we get on like he is from my country. The cultures are very similar. Come the Tutsi who are fellow country men, their culture is alien. We look at them as the other. Since the Tutsi mythology says they came from then north east that leaves the possiblity that they have horner roots.

Read somewhere that the Fulanis have R1 something at about 35%. Sudan Fulanis are 45% R1 something. These Fulanis are mixed race. From the hooked nose to the large ears. :

Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by horn-afrik:
Thanks dana marniche , the original inhabitatents of the arabian peninsula were racially no differents than the cushites of east africa, however I dont agree with the Iraqi and ottomon input in somalia and ethiopia. ottoman settlers around 14-16th century can be found in harar ethiopia and along southern coast of somali(specially merca), where Haplogroup J* is prominent and they only make less than 1% of the population of the region.



atleast to me I dont see any racial differences

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Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avee:
Come the Tutsi who are fellow country men, their culture is alien. We look at them as the other.

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Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

Btw Avee too bad you've already flunked...

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avee:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avee:
To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father.

---

Where do Caucasoid features originate? Can you perhaps define where and when these features arose specifically and according to whom? Btw not all Somalis and Ethiopians are mixed not even the majority. If you think otherwise prove it!

P.s. the following male also has sharp features but we know his people (Tutsis) have predominately E3a (E1b1a) without any non African admixture so how did this happen Avee? Do tell....if you can, is it magic?

---

Am from a ´bantu country with a sizable tutsi/ Hima population. To bantu these people are as Alien as horners or arabs. We look at them as foreigners. There is not doubt in my mind that these people do not belong to E3a like west Africans. It is not just their features but their hair texture too. Not to forget their culture. I was surprised when I learned they are not related to horners. Their female tradtional dress is middle eastern/ horn of Africa looking. bantu feel more kinship to nilo-saharans than they do tutsi or bahima as call them in my country. They are aliens. No way can they be of west African stock.

---

Hey I understand what you're saying, pretty much that you're not up to par with the knowledge in pertinence to African diversity and human diversity altogether...Broad faced Africans adapted to a hot and humid climate while thinner longer faced Africans adapted to a hot and dry climate, this is the reason for the differences in phenotype you see, Y-dna and Mtdna does not equate with phenotypical features at all.

#1) I asked you where do Caucasian features originate? No answer, you failed queston 1.

#2) I asked you if you can explain where and when Caucasian features arose and according to whom? Again, no answer, failed question number 2.

#3) I informed you that not all Somalians and Ethiopians were mixed and in fact not even the majority are mixed, I then asked if you were able to prove otherwise? This went unanswered as well. Failed to answer question # 3.

#4) I showed you a Tutsi who possesses those same sharp features who belongs predominantly to the Y-chromosome E1b1a (E3a) with no outside non African admixture yet as can see he possesses those same sharp features. I asked you to explain how this could be, and again no logical answer, You've failed the test....

---

Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avee:


Read somewhere that the Fulanis have R1 something at about 35%. Sudan Fulanis are 45% R1 something. These Fulanis are mixed race. From the hooked nose to the large ears. :

---

Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:
Avee said

---

Like I knew all along. There is no way somalis and ethiopians could be a pure African people. To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father. If you look at African Americans who are fathered by white male they tend to have sharp cacausoid features as well. These people below are mixed race.Even there culture is very middle eastern. I personally do not believe these people share PN2 with west Africans."



But, on the contrary the features of this Somali man except for his hair are typical of early and prehistorical east Africans. The culture of Middle Easterners was first influenced by early East Africans known as Arabs. And the entire region of the Sahel stretching to West Africa has of course been influenced by contact with the Middle East.
The Somalis get their non-African hair mainly from recent Middle Eastern and Yemeni contact over the past 3 centuries. Straight hair, however, has little to do with the peoples like early Yemenites and mostly "jet black" Qureish of Mecca whom the Jabarti's claim descent from nor other Khadar or near black tribes predominant in Arabia until the 15th century.

The narrow elongated facial features of the Fulani, Danakil, Samburu, Somali, etc. have little to do with non-African influence and are found in Elmenteitan skeletons dating back before the historic era and are related to evolution in the desedrt like areas.

Their are very few Africans in the Sahel that are purely African and that is because they originally occupied the neolithci Sahara and north Africa which has had much contact through slavery and settlement with non African peoples. most of these do not have Somali features that includes the Tuareg, Hausa, Teda, Tibbu and even many of the Mande speaking tribes.

Peoples like the Somali and Tuareg get their less than woolly hair mainly from people like the Iraqis Syrians and Turks who have settled up until late times in the area. Their has been recent influence from Iraq in particular in the last few centuries.


El Moran (warrior) of the Samburu
His "sharp" features have little to do with being mixed with being "Caucasoid" as ancient skeletal evidence of Kenyans has proven.

You will in fact rarely see a European with features as "sharp" or refined as many east Africans.

Also, the populations of Arabia were mainly near black and kinky haired people up until several centuries ago.
Quote from the 14th century - “'Red', in the speech of the people from the Hijaz, means fair-complexioned and this color is rare amongst the Arabs. This is the meaning of the saying, ‘…a red man as if he is one of the slaves’. The speaker meant that his color is like that of the slaves who were captured from the Christians of Syria, Rome and Persia.” From Al Dhahabi of Damascus Syria, in Seyar al Nubala’a, cited on p. 55, The Unknown Arabs, 2002, by Tariq Berry.

According to Richmond Palmer's book, Bornu Sahara and Sudan, Arabia was considered part of Bilad es Sudan or "land of the blacks" by peoples of the North in the early Islamic era - by Syrians like Al Umari - and that is why the earliest Islamic "Moors" who invaded north Africa and Spain from Arabia are referred to as black as melted pitch which is the color of many Somali and Arabians. Early Arabians are described by non-Arabs as jet black and dark brownish black (Akhdar).

Also the Arabs were mostly kinky haired and not straight haired like the slaves of the Arabs were said to have been. As early Arab linguist Ibn Mandur said, "“kinky hair was the hair Arabs had and that lank hair was the hair of the Persian”.

Al Mubarrad born in Basra Iraq said in the 9th century. "The Arabs used to take pride in there darkness and blackness and they had a distaste for a fair skin..."

The Qureish came from a tribe known as Kenanah otherwise called Canaanites. They still live in Arabia and Israel/Palestine and in Israel are still black some as black as jet.



El Moran of the Kenya

The Samburu/Masai, Oromo and Somali and other east Africans do not get their refined features from being "impure Africans."

On the other hand ancient and early Arabs or semites were affiliated with black Africans. Rock art, skeletal and archeological evidence of Arabia and the Syro-ARabian deserts validates this.


Shammar Arabian (a Ru'alla or Ruwalla related tribe)


Henna bearded man of the Somali (bin Sama'al) of the same stock.

The early Yemenite Rahawiyyin or Ru'wayn (also the tribe in Somalia called Rahawayn or Rahanwayn ) of Himyar and Rawalla or Ru'alla bin An'aes are both descended from an ancient Arabian chief named "Ra'wani" or "el Ar'awi" in later Arab genealogies better known in the west as the Biblical Reu'el, while the name Shammar is obviously the Shammah or Samma son of Reuel of Esau (el Aes). (Genesis 36:17)

Until the 15th century people that looked like Somalis and other east Africans predominated in Arabia and the region of western Yemen extending north toward Ta'if and Mecca was known as Kush, Kenaan, Siyan (Zion) and Yishar-el before these became place names in Syria. (See the Bible Came from Arabia by Kamal Salibi).

Al Sama and Sama'al are names of an ancient Arabian clan of the Sabaeans (batn Himyar) mentioned in Islamic Yemenite sources and earlier sources. (Mad'aj p. 91) The names may very well refer to the same tribe and be the root of the name Sam whom the Somaali (or bin Sama'al) and Shammar claim descent from.

Ibn Rabbu of 9th c. Cordoba quoted an Madhij of the clan of El Nakha in Yemen and Hadramaut saying one of the 7 rare things in this world was a fair-skinned Arab and that a "fair-skinned" Arab was "inconceivable".

Modern dark-skinned descendants of ancient Arabians like the Qarra and Mahra of Oman told colonial observers they originated in Africa.


Yafi- Yahar members of the Yemen

Early Islamic Yemenite sources say they belonged to the Ru'ayn Himyarites of Arabia (see Abd'ul Muhsin Mad'aj. The Yemen in Early Islam, 1988. p.91)

Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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If darod was one of those horner look Arabians above, was prophet Mohammed black too given the darod descend from prophet Muhammeds cousin Aqeel ibn Abi Talib? I highly doubt Mohammed was anything but Arab as we see them today.

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According to Al-Jahiz, Abd al-Muttalib, the guardian of the sacred Kaaba, "fathered ten Lords, Black as the night and magnificent." One of these men was Abdallah, the father of the Prophet Muhammad.

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Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by Avee:

quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:
To learn more about Darod you can check out Dierk Lange's, Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa, the name Darood or Darud among the Somali is due to their relationship to the Mahra and other proto-Arabian tribes.

As Lange says, the "remnants of ancient Canaanite-Israelite cult names, and group identities are widespread among the different Somali clans." p. 261.

Some of these names include Makir (Machir), Rahanwayn (Ru'ayn or Ruhawayn) Wubar (Wabara or Ubar), Yubir and Hubir (Heber), Sama'al or Somala, Ishaq (or Isaac), Magaado(Magdi'el) Afar or Anfar (Aphren) etc., the name Darood is the Mahra or south Arabian and Somali pronunication of the more modern Arabic (Dawud or David).


"Altogether the names and legends of the northern Somali clan-families indicate that their ancestors were familiar with the details of teh biblical genealogical charter as it applied to their specific clan organization before they had left South Arabia." Lange 200 p. 276.

Darud was the name of Mahra towns in southern Arabia as well. The Arabian Mahri claimed to have come from the Kudha'a of Arabia, Himyarites who are the Kaath of Josephus, Kuth of Abyssinian genealogists and Kuhath or Qahith "son of Levi".

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Like I knew all along. There is no way somalis and ethiopians could be a pure African people. To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father. If you look at African Americans who are fathered by white male they tend to have sharp cacausoid features as well. These people below are mixed race.Even there culture is very middle eastern. I personally do not believe these people share PN2 with west Africans.















[/QB

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Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob_01:

quote:

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Originally posted by Avee:

quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:
To learn more about Darod you can check out Dierk Lange's, Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa, the name Darood or Darud among the Somali is due to their relationship to the Mahra and other proto-Arabian tribes.

As Lange says, the "remnants of ancient Canaanite-Israelite cult names, and group identities are widespread among the different Somali clans." p. 261.

Some of these names include Makir (Machir), Rahanwayn (Ru'ayn or Ruhawayn) Wubar (Wabara or Ubar), Yubir and Hubir (Heber), Sama'al or Somala, Ishaq (or Isaac), Magaado(Magdi'el) Afar or Anfar (Aphren) etc., the name Darood is the Mahra or south Arabian and Somali pronunication of the more modern Arabic (Dawud or David).


"Altogether the names and legends of the northern Somali clan-families indicate that their ancestors were familiar with the details of teh biblical genealogical charter as it applied to their specific clan organization before they had left South Arabia." Lange 200 p. 276.

Darud was the name of Mahra towns in southern Arabia as well. The Arabian Mahri claimed to have come from the Kudha'a of Arabia, Himyarites who are the Kaath of Josephus, Kuth of Abyssinian genealogists and Kuhath or Qahith "son of Levi".

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Like I knew all along. There is no way somalis and ethiopians could be a pure African people. To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father. If you look at African Americans who are fathered by white male they tend to have sharp cacausoid features as well. These people below are mixed race.Even there culture is very middle eastern. I personally do not believe these people share PN2 with west Africans.















[/QB

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I've been around the United States and most who identify themselves as Black look half-white. Facial features, often quite different from Jamaicans, never mind, "pure" Africans living in Nigeria et al. I could do produce same nonsense and define blackness as well.

Having said that, most African-Americans don't even know their actual lineages. Much like "white Americans", who represent a bastardized group of people as well. Please don't act like Blacks in the States could maintain their "Pure" African lineage, because that's nearly impossible.

On the other hand, East Africans belong to established groups that have essentially maintained specific lineages for thousands of years. In addition, mainstream anthropology and genetics suggests that East Africans represent an indigenous population.

One that isn't "Caucasian" and those traits you see are African in origin. Just because it's present in Europe doesn't make it so. Human development in the Caucasus mountains isn't even comparable to East Africa. Diversity is many times greater in the motherland. Besides that male you posted isn't the norm.

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Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Avee:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob_01:

quote:

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Originally posted by Avee:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:
To learn more about Darod you can check out Dierk Lange's, Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa, the name Darood or Darud among the Somali is due to their relationship to the Mahra and other proto-Arabian tribes.

As Lange says, the "remnants of ancient Canaanite-Israelite cult names, and group identities are widespread among the different Somali clans." p. 261.

Some of these names include Makir (Machir), Rahanwayn (Ru'ayn or Ruhawayn) Wubar (Wabara or Ubar), Yubir and Hubir (Heber), Sama'al or Somala, Ishaq (or Isaac), Magaado(Magdi'el) Afar or Anfar (Aphren) etc., the name Darood is the Mahra or south Arabian and Somali pronunication of the more modern Arabic (Dawud or David).


"Altogether the names and legends of the northern Somali clan-families indicate that their ancestors were familiar with the details of teh biblical genealogical charter as it applied to their specific clan organization before they had left South Arabia." Lange 200 p. 276.

Darud was the name of Mahra towns in southern Arabia as well. The Arabian Mahri claimed to have come from the Kudha'a of Arabia, Himyarites who are the Kaath of Josephus, Kuth of Abyssinian genealogists and Kuhath or Qahith "son of Levi".

---

Like I knew all along. There is no way somalis and ethiopians could be a pure African people. To look the way somalis to look, with sharp cacausoid feature a male non-Africa has to be the father. If you look at African Americans who are fathered by white male they tend to have sharp cacausoid features as well. These people below are mixed race.Even there culture is very middle eastern. I personally do not believe these people share PN2 with west Africans.















[/QB

---

I've been around the United States and most who identify themselves as Black look half-white. Facial features, often quite different from Jamaicans, never mind, "pure" Africans living in Nigeria et al. I could do produce same nonsense and define blackness as well.

Having said that, most African-Americans don't even know their actual lineages. Much like "white Americans", who represent a bastardized group of people as well. Please don't act like Blacks in the States could maintain their "Pure" African lineage, because that's nearly impossible.

On the other hand, East Africans belong to established groups that have essentially maintained specific lineages for thousands of years. In addition, mainstream anthropology and genetics suggests that East Africans represent an indigenous population.

One that isn't "Caucasian" and those traits you see are African in origin. Just because it's present in Europe doesn't make it so. Human development in the Caucasus mountains isn't even comparable to East Africa. Diversity is many times greater in the motherland. Besides that male you posted isn't the norm.

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If you look at peope who live in the proximity of non-Africans(including north Africans) they look something like east Africans. From Sudan to Mauritania. Why are they not found in the interior? Contact between bantu and arabs in coastal Kenya has produced a small group of people called Bajuni. Because these people marry their own kind or Arabs they are fast becoming their own race.They have their family histories written down and trace their paternal lineages to places like Oman and other Arab countries. This I believe is the process east Africans went through.

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Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:

So maybe^...and on another note it is quite possible that is the so-called Horners were the ones taking slaves from Arabia at that time..for before the prophet's birth they were the colonial power in Arabia at that time..Axumite/Habasha..that is..given that losers in any conflict had to give somthings including gold ,cattle of some sort and slaves why should pre-Islamic Arabia be any different considering the times.

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Ackee,

I visited Dubai two weeks ago. The country
at the time was celebrating their
nationalday, and the ruling
family do not deny
that their ancestries came from East
Africa (mostly from Somalia),
and their recent ancestries from Yemen.
I have met people
who claim that their
great great mothers came from Somalia.

That was one of the reason I started this
topic to find out the linkage between
East Africa and Arabian peninsula.
In fact my own great mother immigrated
to Yemen as young girl and lived
and married a native Yemeni.

Another thing I found out in Dubai was,
be careful speaking Somali language among
Yemeni people, because most of them
understand Somali OPS!!!

Posts: 2198 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged |