posted
Your Grey Puppon eating arse is lucky Ausar deleted the African Civilization thread, now no one can look upon the academic ass beating I gave your ignorant ass and how I challenged your savage straw hut dwelling Tin Isle ancestors who never figured out how to Bathe.
If Africans were savages your ancestors were the Savage of Savages. Devoid of any creative thought or high form of Art, Architecture, or Civility. Savage, discusting, barbarics who were nothing but colonial subjects of the Romans. It took them several hundred years to develop the basics of Hygine. Paris and esp. London were notorious for Filth, and the Latter threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies.
So from the ashes I ressurect my challenge to you, Post Northern European Architecture or Structure or anything of value not influenced by Brown Mediteranians, prove that your savage Pink Chimp vomit smelling ancestors deserve the pedalstool you put them on.
and don't come in here talking about Greeks and Romans were white because they are not. Just like the Egyptians are not black to you the Greeks and Romans are not white.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Greeks and Romans are not white.
Ironlion finally beat him
the "other" jari
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
If you want to engage me intellectually, then make your points intelligible and backed up with sources.
Descriptions of Roman Emperors..
Nero-He was about the average height, his body marked with spots and malodorous, his hair light blond, his features regular rather than attractive, his eyes blue and somewhat weak, his neck over thick, his belly prominent, and his legs very slender.
He had clear, bright eyes, in which he liked to have it thought that there was a kind of divine power, and it greatly pleased him, whenever he looked keenly at anyone, if he let his face fall as if before the radiance of the sun; but in his old age he could not see very well with his left eye. His teeth were wide apart, small, and ill-kept; his hair was slightly curly and inclining to golden; his eyebrows met. His ears were of moderate size, and his nose projected a little at the top and then bent slightly inward.110 His complexion was between dark and fair.
posted
^^^^^ You flatchest Bitch keep out of this, this is between me and Rahotep101.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Firstly, the ancient Romans/Greeks were Caucasian. To argue otherwise would be to reject history, genetics, anthropology etc. I'm guessing you must be another afrocentric clown.
As for:
''Post Northern European Architecture or Structure or anything of value not influenced by Brown Mediteranians'' =============
Sophisticated Stone structures and settlements were being created in Northern Europe long before Rome and classical Greece. A few examples - Skara Brae and Jarlshof.
Skara Brae had hot water pipes that predate those of the Minoans.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Dude stop spamming my fucking thread... flat chested bitch.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Dude stop spamming my fucking thread... flat chested bitch.
now he calls his own quotes "spam".
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Yes Rome Was Multi-Ethnic and ruled by Caucasians who were much more whiter than the current Italians of Today. The Early Romans Emperors were light haired and light eyed Caucasians like the Northern Europeans.
They were also known for their harsh treatment of Km.t, the destruction of the African Empire of Carthage and the destruction of the Jewish Temple..etc. They would force their servile populations to worship them as God..LMAO so this self hating Iron Lion and Mike111's ancestors the Moors worshipped a Blond or Light haired Roman Emperor now this clown want to claim they were "Muurs" becase of one a freeze of a Moorish slave Army.
Let the lies stop.. [/QB]
^^^jari is that you that posted that or some other jari?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Firstly, the ancient Romans/Greeks were Caucasian. To argue otherwise would be to reject history, genetics, anthropology etc. I'm guessing you must be another afrocentric clown.
No Im just pulling a page out of your Clown ass Eurocentric tactics, that is denying the History, Genetics, anthropology etc. that proves the Egyptians were black.
Funny how loud you Eurocentric pigs squeel when Greece and Rome is pulled from under your feet. Too scared and ashamed to claim the heap of rubble your ancestors called structures.
Sophisticated Stone structures and settlements were being created in Northern Europe long before Rome and classical Greece. A few examples - Skara Brae and Jarlshof.
Skara Brae had hot water pipes that predate those of the Minoans.
Stone "Structure" as Skara Brea is the only thing you can name. as Jarlshof was an offshoot of Skara Brea. surely that is not all. Skara Brea and Jarlshoff are devoid of any archtectural design and creativity. Nothing but a Sophisticated pile of Rocks.
Tilchtt Walata however has a beautiful design aspect to it, and unlike your inferiority driven ancestors the people of Ouata did not Abandon their Architectural Style. Show me a modern Building or a Building today that utilizes Skara Brea designs..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
No im sick and tired of people like you and Rahotep judging Africans on a different level when your people were in the same boat prior to the Romans Colonizing and Civilizing them. If Africans were Savages your people were Savages and I want you to prove they were not.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Also just to point out the celts (who i assume you consider savage northern europeans) were the ones who invented soap before the Romans.
What good is inventing soap f you use it once a year. It was not until Modern Times that Northern Europeans developed proper Hygine.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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I've already done this before on many other forums. lets go to my photobucket again then...
The popular idea that the ancestors of the British were painted savages has no foundation in fact. It was a custom of the Picts and other branches of the Celtic and Gothic nations to make themselves look terrible in war, from whence came the Roman term 'savage'. The 'painting' was in reality tattooing
Far from these ancestral Britons having been mere painted savages, roaming wild in the woods as we are imaginatively told in most of the modern histories, they are now, on the contrary, as disclosed by newly found historical facts given by Professor Waddell, known to have been, from the very first grounding of their galley keels upon these shores, over a millennium and a half before the Christian era, a literate race, pioneers of civilization. The universally held belief that the mixed race has prevailed during many centuries; this belief, however, is now fading out of the scientific mind and giving place to the exact opposite. Britons, Celts, Gaels, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans when warring with each other were kinsmen shedding kindred blood.
- "Celt, Druid and Culdee" (1973) by Isabel Hill Elder
Basically Elder compiled all the sources proving the indigenous pre-Roman British were never savages. When the Romans arrived they found roads, advanced agriculture, universities (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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posted
You have proved nothing other than posting your people's desperate attempts to apologize for the Barbarity of their culture. Your people will dig and hunt for anything to prove their self worth and at the same time call Africans savages when your people were no better.
If Northern Europeans were so Civilized The Greeks and Romans would have made it clear, instead they told a different story. Now you all scurry to hide and dismiss the Greek and Roman sources as "Biased"...lol.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''I want you to prove they were not'' ====
I've already done this before on many other forums. lets go to my photobucket again then...
The popular idea that the ancestors of the British were painted savages has no foundation in fact. It was a custom of the Picts and other branches of the Celtic and Gothic nations to make themselves look terrible in war, from whence came the Roman term 'savage'. The 'painting' was in reality tattooing
Far from these ancestral Britons having been mere painted savages, roaming wild in the woods as we are imaginatively told in most of the modern histories, they are now, on the contrary, as disclosed by newly found historical facts given by Professor Waddell, known to have been, from the very first grounding of their galley keels upon these shores, over a millennium and a half before the Christian era, a literate race, pioneers of civilization. The universally held belief that the mixed race has prevailed during many centuries; this belief, however, is now fading out of the scientific mind and giving place to the exact opposite. Britons, Celts, Gaels, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans when warring with each other were kinsmen shedding kindred blood.
- "Celt, Druid and Culdee" (1973) by Isabel Hill Elder
Basically Elder compiled all the sources proving the indigenous pre-Roman British were never savages. When the Romans arrived they found roads, advanced agriculture, universities (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
^^^^^ LoL, what a bunch of BS, if they had any sort of literature surely at least one would survive or they would use their own alphabet.
They were a bunch of illiterate sage Colonial subjects and the main source for Roman and Greek slaves. Nothing more.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Tinman, Im not going to get into picture spams of Modern Africa V. Modern Britian. Not all Africans live in rual areas they live in cities like those found in the west. Also Modern Britain is far more industrialized and Richer(Due to exploitation and the Industrial Revolution) than majority of African cities. This is not what I am arguing here.(Using your criteria the Arabs due to Dubai are more superior than the British and Chinese).
Im asking why prior to Roman Colonization Britian was a cultural backwater, and why prior to the I.R Britian was a Filthy, dirty cesspoll filled with savages with poor hygene.
Why is this when your people have such a high IQ..??
Show us all this Great Art, Great Infrastucture, Amazing Libraries and Temples your High I.Q sophisticated ancestors created prior to the Romans subjugating you...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Is Anglo-pyramidologist Rahotep? If so I ask you Rahotep why do you need a double identity to post on this forum?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: now he calls his own quotes "spam".
[
No you flat chested Tranny looking two dollar slut, Im not the one who fucked up my thread by posting irrelevent **** that has nothing to do with this conversation. If your ass was not desperate to defend your white boyfriend's dick then you would have read and quoted me in context..
Here is what you quoted...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Greeks and Romans are not white.
[/QUOTE][/QB][/QUOTE]
Here is what I said in context...
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: and don't come in here talking about Greeks and Romans were white because they are not. Just like the Egyptians are not black to you the Greeks and Romans are not white.
Im saying if Rahotep does'nt consider the Egyptians black I dont consider the Romans as white.
Now **** off bitch, go play with Calabooz of Sundjaita, Leave me the **** alone like you have been doing.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
No as far as I can tell from their posting style Tinman and Rahotep are different people despite their common location in London.
Rahotep is a Liberal white supremist. while Tinman is a Conservative white supremist. The Difference is Tinman admits it, while Rahotep claims no race is superior but at the same time claims anything in Africa was the product of wandering Cacazoids and Renegade Aye-Rabs.
Tinman considers everyone of signifigance to be Blond Nordics.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Is Anglo-pyramidologist Rahotep? If so I ask you Rahotep why do you need a double identity to post on this forum?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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I was going to quit this dumb thread but you force me to reply again
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: I dont consider the Romans as white.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Yes Rome Was Multi-Ethnic and ruled by Caucasians who were much more whiter than the current Italians of Today. The Early Romans Emperors were light haired and light eyed Caucasians like the Northern Europeans.
need I say more?
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Devoid of any creative thought or high form of Art, Architecture, or Civility. Savage, disgusting, barbaric who were nothing but colonial subjects of the Romans. It took them several hundred years to develop the basics of Hygine. Paris and esp. London were notorious for Filth, and the Latter threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies.
see, it finally sunk in the very same racism you accuse Mike of and the Ironlion fantasy land
I guess it had a subliminal effect. I'm going to be speaking to Iron about this
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Britain pogressed, Africa did not. When William Harvey was unlocking the mysteries of the circulatory system, rural Africans were drinking raw blood from their emaciated cattle, as indeed they are still.
When black kings like Cetshwayo of the Zulus were still living in thatched round huts (like ours of 2000 years ago), we were building crystal palaces exhibiting the fruits of art, industry and science. This is just fact.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Ibo Tumuli the longest earth work defense system in the world to date Eredo Nigeria covering an area the size of 30 times the size of Manhattan..Jeri caught my mistake. Nigerian royal and Nigerian Bes? Ashanti Gold.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I could come back with a lot of pwnage , but it' would take too long to list all Britian's cultural achievements from Chaucer to Concorde.
Sure you can, other than Stonehenge and Skara Brea Britian was devoid of any civility or creative and high art prior to Roman Colonialism, Subjugation and enslavement.
Your people were and some extent still are Barbarics.
I will give you the fact that the Enlightenment began in Britain, thats one thing I will give you. The Enlightenment is a diamond in the rough of Barbarity and poor hygene that typifies the history of the Tin Isle and Nordic Barbarics.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The products of British culture from the Neolithic to the Iron age alone surpass anything produced in Black Africa - either at the time or later.
More wishful thinking by a Grey Puppon eating Brit. All of this great culture and all you can grudge up is Stone Henge and Skara Brea..LOL.
Admit it without Roman and Greek Subjugation your people were Barbaric nomads without a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of..LOL
About 1,000 years ago there was a civilization in the deep rainforest of Nigeria. That kingdom created a 100-mile long moated wall (160 km) that was 70 feet high in places (21 meters), the largest known ancient earthworks in Africa.
The wall and ditch, known as Sungbo's Eredo (Sungbo's ditch), may have surrounded the central core of a tribe called the Ijebu, part of the Yoruba clan of tribes. According to local lore, Bilikisu Sungbo was a fabulously wealthy queen who wanted to create a monument to her rule. The Eredo was built, enclosing an area 30 times bigger than Manhattan Island.
Sungbo's Eredo is not the only huge ancient structure in West Africa. The jungle is dotted with earthen walls, marking more than 500 settlement boundaries. Archaeologists are studying the ruins to learn more about them and the people who built them.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Britain pogressed, Africa did not. When William Harvey was unlocking the mysteries of the circulatory system, rural Africans were drinking raw blood from their emaciated cattle, as indeed they are still.
When black kings like Cetshwayo of the Zulus were still living in thatched round huts (like ours of 2000 years ago), we were building crystal palaces exhibiting the fruits of art, industry and science. This is just fact.
Britian Progressed thanks to their extensive study and emulation of Greeks and Romans, and thanks to Arab Muslims and African Moors, Indians, and Chinese who all contributed to the Rise and lifting out of Barbarity and stupidity of the inhabitants of the Tin Isles and Northern Europe.
Of course it was the Southern Europeans who began this process, because Unlike Rome and Greece Ancient Nordics are devoid of any high culture or sophistication.
While the Tin Isle European threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies and bathed once a year, Egyptians and Nubians were erecting stone temples.
While the Celts were being slaughtered enmasse by their Roman Colonial masters and were resorting to Canibalism the Nok Culture was thriving.
While The Tin Isle barbarics were sleeping in strawhut, the people of Oulata were build stone structures.
Before the illiterate barbarics of the Tin Isles knew what blood and the heart was let alone a circulatory system, the black Egyptians were preforming advanced surgery.
That's just a fact.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Listen all great civilization draws inspiration from surrounding areas near and far as a matter that is one of the main reason for their greatness the ability to trade goods and ideas Mr Gray popon want African civilizations to be isolated and yet great for the sake of purity yet non of his ancestors civilizations has never meet those condition, Btw the Royals of Zimbabwe were dining off Ming china plates how about that for international contacts.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Well, that was a lot o lols in 15 outta my day.
I like Nok and Benin art (art from too different eras, places? (where the hell's Nok (again))).
I liked the Italien-Egyptian titties too.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
Nice gold. You're cool. Britain goes hard (fareal).
Really tho?
We're not seriously going hard in on this are we guys?
Anywho, to continue you guys's [hopefully] games, if you want to compare apples compare Romanized and post-Christianized Europe to Islamicized Africa. Compare the Zulus to the Lapps and (sorry I had to do it) compare the mudhuts Raho said he lived in 2ky ago with the brick buildings of West Africa 5-6,000 years ago.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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Jari you're a failre. I've shown great British structures and artworks from the Neolithic and Bronze Age, and I could go on. There are hundreds of stone circles, mounds, brochs, hill-forts etc. There are bronze and iron weapons of exquisite workmanship, and yet finer items in gold, including cups, torcs and ceremonial capes.
The best negro art is Yoruba bronze, and is little older than the 1500s AD.
As for the ancient Britons being uncouth barbarians unconcerned with personal grooming in the pre-Roman era, artifacts like this tell a different story, wouldm't you say?
The advanced cities etc. in Africa today are primarily the result of western contact and development investment. Left alone, Sub Saharan Africa in the 21st century would be no more advanced than it was when David Livingstone travelled there in the 19th, which is to say more primitive than Britain was 3000 years ago.
Here's something pretty from the British bronze age that you can stick up your arse...
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Your Grey Puppon eating arse is lucky Ausar deleted the African Civilization thread, now no one can look upon the academic ass beating I gave your ignorant ass and how I challenged your savage straw hut dwelling Tin Isle ancestors who never figured out how to Bathe.
If Africans were savages your ancestors were the Savage of Savages. Devoid of any creative thought or high form of Art, Architecture, or Civility. Savage, discusting, barbarics who were nothing but colonial subjects of the Romans. It took them several hundred years to develop the basics of Hygine. Paris and esp. London were notorious for Filth, and the Latter threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies.
So from the ashes I ressurect my challenge to you, Post Northern European Architecture or Structure or anything of value not influenced by Brown Mediteranians, prove that your savage Pink Chimp vomit smelling ancestors deserve the pedalstool you put them on.
and don't come in here talking about Greeks and Romans were white because they are not. Just like the Egyptians are not black to you the Greeks and Romans are not white.
And even if the Greeks and Romans were 'white', they are not a part of northern European civilization, but the Mediterranean civilization....not to mention, we already know what the Greeks and Romans thought of the wild savages roaming northern Europe.....
I've always been puzzled as to why white supremists who proudly proclaim their Norse, etc., northern European origins, also attempt to claim Greek and Roman achievements as a part of their own history....lol....the REALity doesn't exactly work out that way, I don't think....
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Modern London and Ivory coast
Nairobi Modern Africa got modern cities too dipstick!!
Greetings kingman.
I wonder if he knows what some of today's rustic rural and/or improverished European villages look like, lol..... Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I'm sure if Europeans had never colonized Africa that modern London would still look much as it does, but Nairobi would not even exist. Nairobi was founded by the British in 1899 as a railway depot, and grew to become the capital of British East Africa. Nairobi is therefore not evidence of a negro civilization!
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
By the way, Jari, you ignoramus, the ancient Britons were not nomads but settled people, and had been for thousands of years by the time the Romans turned up. We had solid gold pots (to piss in if we wanted to) in 2300 BC. The Rillaton Cup, for instance. Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: By the way, Jari, you ignoramus, the ancient Britons were not nomads but settled people, and had been for thousands of years by the time the Romans turned up. We had solid gold pots (to piss in if we wanted to) in 2300 BC. The Rillaton Cup, for instance.
Yeah yeah, now return the artifacts you filthy thieves have stolen from Africa.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Many years ago, thousands of priceless craft were looted and shipped overseas. A few are back now, on a short loan from Britain. They have a strange cheer around them ... but they will be spirited away again to cold and alien cages.
She stands tall and proud - a true scion of the Nyamwezi people of Tanzania. Power and elegance surround her like a halo, her gaze steady and unblinking. By her side are diminutive valets. They cater for her every whim.
So why is she so sad? And what happened to her arm? Did she lose it while fighting off her captors? The cruelty of being uprooted from East Africa to Europe is too plain to see. But she is fleetingly happy now. She is back home - if only for a while.
She is one of the many attractions to the Hazina exhibition, currently on-going at The Nairobi Gallery.
Her agony and that of other captives was captured by one visitor to the exhibition. "Bring them all back and make the story here where they belong," wrote the man in the Visitors' Book.
There are more than 140 objects that belong to the British Museum - but are originally from Kenya, Uganda, south Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Tanzania, Mozambique and Burundi - on display at the exhibition at the old Provincial Commissioner's house on Kenyatta Avenue.
They include a woman's girdle of the Gikuyu, dating back to 1904, a medicine flask by the Embu (1914), a head dress of the Longi people (1938), a woman's skirt of the Safwa community in Tanzania (1939), and bearded armlets by the Akamba, which became museum collections in 1972.
The exhibition, which runs until September, has stoked the fires of the campaign for the return of priceless artefacts, obelisks, stelae, statues, paintings, sarcophagi, manuscripts and other afrophiliacs lying in museums and wealthy private collectors' homes in Europe and America.
Most of these items were either stolen during the colonial era, or sold by individuals to dealers from foreign countries who re-sold them at a princely sum. Others, writes George Abungu, heritage consultant and former director general of the National Museums of Kenya (NMK), were taken to foreign museums for study and were never returned.
"They date as way back as the 19th century to as late as 2002," says Kiprop Langat, a research scientist at NMK and curator of the Hazina Exhibition.
Some of the missing items are indispensable in the crafting of Kenya's political past. They include a huge consignment of uniform, weapons and other material from Mau Mau freedom fighters handed over to Mzee Jomo Kenyatta at Ruringu Stadium, Nyeri. The stadium was a battlefield for the Mau Mau and it is believed that Kenyatta received the items in 1963, just before he became Kenya's first president.
Thousands of documents on Mau Mau freedom fighters lie at the National Archives of the UK. George Muoria, a senior archivist at Kenya National Archives, says the British regard them as theirs. "But they are part of our material culture and should come back."
Others are head gear, shoes and bracelets of legendary Nandi leader Koitalel arap Samoei. Only two weeks ago, the Koitalel Samoei clan renewed its call for return of these items, plus his head, which was taken away by British colonial soldiers on October 19, 1907.
Led by Captain Richard Meinertzhagen, the British killed and beheaded Samoei in an effort to quell a seven-year resistance by the Nandi.
Besides the demand for return of stolen artifacts, the clan is suing the British Government for Samoei's killing. Only recently, a walking stick and baton - traditional symbols of power of the Nandi leader - were returned. They were recovered from descendants of Meinertzhagen by scholars Kipkoech Muge and Kipnyango Seroney after a nine-month hunt in London.
A spirited search has also seen the tracing of two vigango stolen from a Mijikenda homestead on the Coast, 20 years ago. The artefacts, made of termite-resistant hardwood posts that range in height but consist of a circle for the head and a rectangle for the body, are on display at Illinois State Museum and at Hampton University Museum in Virginia. They are to be returned at the request of NMK.
Used by the Mijikenda to venerate the dead, one of them was taken in 1985 from a homestead in Kakwakwani, Mombasa. "We realised it had been removed illegally," Michael Wiant of Illinois museum told the New York Times.
There are 294 vigango in the US acquired through a Los Angeles-based artefacts dealer. He is alleged to have bought them during his many trips to Kenya, spread over 30 years. At the Hampton University Museum is one of 98 such items. It was reportedly taken from the home of Kache Kalume Mwakiru, while that at the Illinois Museum was one of eight donated in 1986 to actor Powers Boothe.
The artefacts were apparently stolen by local youths and sold to foreign traders acting on behalf of wealthy clients. They sell for only $500 (Sh35,500) at local shops while in the US they fetch as much as $5,000 (Sh355,500).
The two maneless, man-eating lions of Tsavo which stalled work on the Kenya-Uganda railway in 1898, by reportedly killing and eating 135 Indian and African labourers, are the other priceless items Kenyans would like to have back. They are on display at Field Museum, Chicago, their fort since 1928.
The two were sold by Colonel J.H Patterson, who spent nine months pursuing them before killing them. He later sold them to the British Museum, who in turn sold them to the museum in Chicago. Patterson immortalised the horrific beasts in the best-selling book: The man-eaters of Tsavo. The couple is also the subject of the movie, Ghost and the darkness.
It is documented that the stuffed lions account for a substantial number of the five-million plus visitors to the Field museum per year.
But what is worrying is that even with these concerted efforts to restitute the treasures, they are still finding their way to foreign museums and private collectors' vaults. "This is very worrying. If you go to Maasai Market in Nairobi, and in Turkana and Maasai land, you can readily buy these items, some dating back many years," says Langat. "Local communities should appreciate our national heritage."
Other priceless memorabilia in private ownership include uniform and medals by World War II soldiers and Carrier Corps. Routinely, NMK purchases these items for preservation. But, reveals Langat, they do not have adequate resources to purchase all of them. So when a good offer beckons from abroad, the holders of these items sell them.
Last year, then head of Ethnography department at NMK, Evans Kiprop, said items of the Njuri Ncheke - a traditional court in the Meru culture - failed to come under their protection owing to a cash shortfall. The seller was asking for Sh5 million but NMK couldn't raise this.
A Japanese collector was offering Sh2 million. Luckily, the seller was adamant and the regalia is still around. "It would have formed an important part of our collection but we could not raise the Sh5 million the seller was asking for," said Kiprop.
Last April, individuals in possession of the War memorabilia went knocking at NMK's department of Ethnography, in response to a request by Afribilia Limited, a London-based dealer in artefacts. The dealer had written to the Kenyan High Commissioner in London requesting a catalogue of items available for sale.
It's generally agreed that without adequate funds, the artefacts will find their way to American and European markets. This is best illustrated in how the African Heritage Collection by second vice-president Joseph Murumbi landed in Government hands. Kenya National Archives paid Sh5.6 million for the collection, which included books, sculptures, drawings and musical instruments.
Murumbi was married to a naturalised Kenyan of British descent. When she died, it was feared that the collection would be shipped to Britain to the next of kin. "Having served in the Government for some time, Murumbi had an impressive collection. Losing it would have been unimaginable," says Muoria.
The contentious issue of ownership of artefacts has become global, with numerous countries agitating for return of what is rightfully theirs. This has prompted those in possession of disputed artefacts to come up with "universal museums" that proclaim to "secure items for humanity." In December, 2002, 18 of the world's leading museums joined forces to declare that they would not hand back ancient artefacts to their countries of origin. They claimed that their collections are for the "good of the world."
These museums include the Art Institute of Chicago; Bavarian State Museum, Germany; Prado Museum, Madrid; and the Museum of Modern Art, New York.
But this was seen as a veiled attempt to sanctify items illegally in their possession. According to a paper by Abungu, who doesn't support the idea of large-scale repatriation, the declaration of a universal museum was in response to fears that some museums would be left with hardly any collection.
He says that although NMK, of which he was director until 2002, is universally known for its work on human origins, it wasn't asked to join the group of universal museums. "What is the basis of their universal value? Are universal museums based solely in Europe and North America?" he ponders in The declaration: A contested issue.
"It seems to me that the declaration on the importance and value of universal museums is signed principally by a group of large museums who want to create a different pedigree, largely due to fears that materials in their collections whose ownership is contested will face claims for repatriation."
He says that he does not believe in mass repatriation, except for human remains and materials of great emotional and spiritual value. There should always be dialogue between museums, and between museums and communities affected by issues of repatriation, to reach amicable solutions, he notes.
Abungu suggests that one of the solutions may be for the communities concerned to accept the present ownership situation, "and the museum may be provided with a permanent loan".
Lang'at says that besides amending past wrongs, African countries should seal loopholes through which the items are exported. Secondly, they can liaise with museums in Europe and the US to make the artefacts available for viewing at the request of the country of origin. NMK has such a leasing agreement with leading museums worldwide, whereby artefacts can be made available either way.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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As for returning anything, when the north Africans return the whole population of Baltimore in Ireland who were taken off to slavery by the Barbary pirates, then we can talk about it... What? Black Africans want to take credit for the deeds of the north African Egyptians they can take blame for the deeds of North African Tunisians and Algerians too!
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Jari you're a failre.
So says the Grey Puppon eating moron with an Egyptian(African name). Why don't you use the moniker Conan or Mr. Rodgers, be proud of your Heritage..!!
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I've shown great British structures and artworks from the Neolithic and Bronze Age, and I could go on. There are hundreds of stone circles, mounds, brochs, hill-forts etc.
All a bunch of heaps of rubble, eye sores compared to the beauty and design from places like Oulata, the Nile Valley etc.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: There are bronze and iron weapons of exquisite workmanship, and yet finer items in gold, including cups, torcs and ceremonial capes.
The best negro art is Yoruba bronze, and is little older than the 1500s AD.
No one cares about the primitive excuse for art you post, the Nok sculpture is far more sophisticated in design.
I know you wish that the Yoruba was the best art produced by Africans outside the Nile Valley..LOL.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: As for the ancient Britons being uncouth barbarians unconcerned with personal grooming in the pre-Roman era, artifacts like this tell a different story, wouldm't you say?
LOL, so a mirror is supposed to prove your barbaric ancestors knew what a bath was. All that proves is that humans will produce no matter how ugly, stinking, foul, and animalistic people can get.
All a comb proves is that your ancestors figured out how to make a tool to rid fleas out of their Dog piss lice invested hair.
More than likely was a reproduction of Greco Roman sources as the Tin Isles were deviod of any creative form of civility.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The advanced cities etc. in Africa today are primarily the result of western contact and development investment. Left alone, Sub Saharan Africa in the 21st century would be no more advanced than it was when David Livingstone travelled there in the 19th, which is to say more primitive than Britain was 3000 years ago.
Here's something pretty from the British bronze age that you can stick up your arse...
Here is something you can put up your arse, afterall Homo activity was widespread in your Filthy piss pod London before you all spread it to South Africa.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Hmph, no matter, even Nomadic peoples like the Native Americans and the Tauregs had more honor, decentcy, and better hygine then Britians.
You dumbasses almost lost to the Zulu Empire(despite having the supposed advantage), had you not been indutrialized the Zulu empire and Shaka would have driven your Red Neck, Mr. Watson, Grey Puppon eating asses in the sea..lol.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: By the way, Jari, you ignoramus, the ancient Britons were not nomads but settled people, and had been for thousands of years by the time the Romans turned up. We had solid gold pots (to piss in if we wanted to) in 2300 BC. The Rillaton Cup, for instance.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Why do you have the name of an African Royal as your Moniker??
Rahotep=Re is pleased
Why not name yourself "Mr.Watsonishappy"...??
Is the ancient dieties of Africa, Ra the ancient Sun God(better put on some sun screen Watson) more important than the Tinkerbelle Fairies and barbaric gods of the Tin Isles.
Huh "Chap"
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @IshGebor Funny chap.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Europeans never invented their own civilization. They copied "their" technology, religion, and mathematics from The East and far south Europeans only started inventing things around 1500 AD because they had stolen gold, silver, slaves, and land from North and South America and Africa to finance higher lifestyle they never had in Europe.
Right up until 1492, when Europeans were still confined to Europe, they weren't inventing Much. They were just modifying what had already been invented by China, The Middle East, and Egypt.
So much for "white superiority".
Europeans never invented Agriculture, domesticate cattle, reading, writing, mathamatics or city-building
P.S we are still waiting for statues of white/caucasian pharoahs from the first 3 dynastys i.e DYNASTIC ERA
whats taking so long ????????
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:I'm sure if Europeans had never colonized Africa that modern London would still look much as it does, but Nairobi would not even exist. Nairobi was founded by the British in 1899 as a railway depot, and grew to become the capital of British East Africa. Nairobi is therefore not evidence of a negro civilization
And I am sure with out the influence of these guys that came with the Romans places like London would remained a swamp and York a simple trading post. but the story didn't even began there as these guys where in Britain picnicking up Tin and the The story continued with guys.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I don't know about you, but I'd lock Tinkerbelle up in a bird cage in my bedroom right next to my bed for when Nut or Hathor were "ritually" unavailable.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Is the ancient dieties of Africa, Ra the ancient Sun God(better put on some sun screen Watson) more important than the Tinkerbelle Fairies and barbaric gods of the Tin Isles.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @Ish Goeber
As for returning anything, when the north Africans return the whole population of Baltimore in Ireland who were taken off to slavery by the Barbary pirates, then we can talk about it... What? Black Africans want to take credit for the deeds of the north African Egyptians they can take blame for the deeds of North African Tunisians and Algerians too!
Rubbish arguments, as you know that Romans and Greeks invaded North Africa first.
It's time to return all the artifacts you folks have stolen from Africa.
Before the colony by the Britsh West Africa had empires as large as the whole of west Europe. And were doing well.
West Africa had universities while most of west Europe was illiterate, except for aristocrats and priests who learned how to read and write because of Romans, who invaded and enslaved most of Europe.
Mostly those ancient artifacts date from during the colonial days by Romans.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
There is no logic to this thread calling white northern europeans (particularly the ethnic-british) as savages when they colonised Africa.
If northern europeans were so primitive or savage how did they manage to conquer virtually the whole of Africa?
When the Europeans arrived with artillary, guns etc the native sub-saharan africans were living in mud huts with wooden spears.
This is how 139 british soldiers managed to defeat and defend their post from 4,000+ Zulus in the Battle of Rorke's Drift. The Zulus were primitive savages in rags with spears, while the British were armed with guns, armour, ammo and sophisticated equipment.
Basically afrocentrism stems from a self-hatred...blacks know their history nowhere compares to europeans so they invent a pseudo-history.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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Europeans never invented their own civilization. They copied "their" technology, religion, and mathematics from The East and far south Europeans only started inventing things around 1500 AD because they had stolen gold, silver, slaves, and land from North and South America and Africa to finance higher lifestyle they never had in Europe.
Right up until 1492, when Europeans were still confined to Europe, they weren't inventing Much. They were just modifying what had already been invented by China, The Middle East, and Egypt.
So much for "white superiority".
Europeans never invented Agriculture, domesticate cattle, reading, writing, mathamatics or city-building
quote:But what was happening in Europe and Ukraine when "everything was just beginning in Sumer?" Was it really true that people there were living in caves and kurens, as they did in the Stone Age? In reality, archaeologists have discovered in Europe many bright civilizations dating back to the period between 6000-3000 BC. for the last hundred years. Among them you can find the following: Vinca, Gumelnica, Cucuteni - Trypillia. Scientists have explored many old settlements, some of them have got fortifications. Scientists have found some traces of very old metallurgy, which flourished between 5000-4500 BC on the Balkans, graves with golden treasures, and clay tables with inscriptions. These investigations have given an opportunity to make the reconstruction of "Civilization of Old Europe". The borders of this civilization ranged from Eastern Italy to the Dnipro river, from the Carpathians to the Aegean and Black Seas. But it seems, that 6000 years ago the East of Old Europe was an unknown land, a far away frontier for the inhabitants of the Danube river. The modern name of this far away land of Old Europe is Ukraine. We can translate this name into English, as "purlieu", an "outlying districts ". It was an enigmatic, rich and boundless territory.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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