quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Ive watched some of your video, I like how you are trying to play the victim. Why don't you post some of the replies that made me insult your ancestors. From day one you have insulted my ancestors and other Africans time and time again despite countless posters here provinding evidence of sophisticated culture in Africa.
If Ausar had not deleted that thread I Could have posted what you wrote in the Civilization thread, but I will be making a counted video with your racist replies and a explanation.
Huh, what a drag now I have to make a video, Im supposed to be on my break.
I don't feel like doing this sh@t..
Oh well..
No one made you insult my ancestors, you took it upon yourself to do that. It pissed you off because you could not name an African equivalent to some of the illustrious early Europeans who have been listed. You thought you could take it out on the ancient Britons, calling them 'savages of savages'. In fact they turn out to have been quite a cultured and spiritual lot, great farmers, warriors, engineers, and artists and no strangers to soap. I really think we ought to draw a line under this as all this acrimony profits no-one.
Built Heritage
Architectural monuments in Africa have long been neglected, not only in the discussions about preservation but also physically. The last few decades however, starting from the sixties and seventies, the architectural treasures of this continent have more and more attracted western architects and researchers. At the Faculty of Architecture at the Delft University of Technology it was especially the Forum movement, with architects such as Aldo van Eyck and Herman Haan, which inspired many students and gave the debate about African Architecture an extra whim.
Nowadays, most of the monumental built environment in Africa has been recognized as such. The importance of the recognition, validation and preservation of cultural heritage knows however many difficulties. Especially in a country like Mali, known for its rich cultural past and present, the diversity of attentions fields (archaeology, anthropology, architecture, music) creates a huge problem in how to make choices, how to create sustainable structures etc. The methods of labelling cultural heritage generate their own dynamics and problems.
The most prestigious label is of course the World Heritage List of UNESCO. The preservation of a World Monument however is not so easy as it seems and one can often wander if this labelling actually provides a sustainable framework for conservation. The impact of this label on the local cultural perspective of the monument often exceeds the original, traditional perception of the building structures as a living part of everyday society.
International conservation rules (for instance Charter of Venice) provide a fairly workable set of operational tools in regard to a conservation project. However, the local building traditions, the traditional way of modifying and using houses and the impact of modern western society often are in conflict with these international standards.
Therefore, restoration and conservation of a modern historic city has to be seen in the framework of the development of the historical structures, the impact of western society and possible future growth. New city developments, electricity, sewerage systems, motorized transports, car parking, plastic pollution; these are just e few of the ingredients of the conflict between modern life and historical city structures. A new approach has to be defined, to reconsider the system of monumental labelling and its instruments to conserve and preserve.
Djenné, a well known UNESCO World Monument, is a city which faces all of these problems. The case of its restoration can be used in the research for new restoration concepts and tools. Satellite cases such as Asmara and Zanzibar can be helpful to redefining international standards.
Yes, that's the history. I don't know what part of that you thik I've glossed over. Did you have a question?
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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Europeans never invented their own civilization. They copied "their" technology, religion, and mathematics from The East and far south Europeans only started inventing things around 1500 AD because they had stolen gold, silver, slaves, and land from North and South America and Africa to finance higher lifestyle they never had in Europe.
Right up until 1492, when Europeans were still confined to Europe, they weren't inventing Much. They were just modifying what had already been invented by China, The Middle East, and Egypt.
So much for "white superiority".
Europeans never invented Agriculture, domesticate cattle, reading, writing, mathematics or city-building
The Europeans, like Leopold were savage and barbaric in their exploitation of Africa.
But in terms of technology how did trains, planes, cars, the steam engine, electrical motors and lighting, computers, television,organ transplantation, landing on the moon come about? I don't see any copying there.
Rahotep did and does make racist remarks like in that earlier thread where he said something to the effect of you Africans never did anything but invent lip plates. That's where the real you comes out, a-hole
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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''You are a pyramidiot not worth the time of anyone interested in serious scholarship of accurate historiography. I would prove myself a fool were I to take further notice of you.'' =======
There are more than one forms of pyramidology. I've greatly updated the wikipedia entry to clarify:
Not all of them are crackpot pseudo-science. The nonsense about aliens or atlanteans are, however there are legitimate metrological and numerological claims within pyramidology. Charles Piazzi Smyth the Astronomer Royal of Scotland and professor of astronomy in the University of Edinburgh held these views, hardly a charlatan. He was one of the world's greatest academics.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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Now even you see why I created this thread, even lioness remembers the post from the deleted thread. Rahotep is trying to play the victim when I did nothing but give him a taste of his own medicine.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Rahotep did and does make racist remarks like in that earlier thread where he said something to the effect of you Africans never did anything but invent lip plates. That's where the real you comes out, a-hole
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''You are a pyramidiot not worth the time of anyone interested in serious scholarship of accurate historiography. I would prove myself a fool were I to take further notice of you.'' =======
There are more than one forms of pyramidology. I've greatly updated the wikipedia entry to clarify:
Not all of them are crackpot pseudo-science. The nonsense about aliens or atlanteans are, however there are legitimate metrological and numerological claims within pyramidology. Charles Piazzi Smyth the Astronomer Royal of Scotland and professor of astronomy in the University of Edinburgh held these views, hardly a charlatan. He was one of the world's greatest academics.
Sometimes scientists who have legitimate views and proper research methodology in one area also have side interest views which are quackery, example, Charles Piazzi Smyth. If you think your pyramidology concepts are valid you should post a thread about them. That is, if you aren't scared
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Are you aware you are typing ENGLISH? yet you sit behind your keyboard attacking the native british (including english) peoples?
??????????????
Why don't blacks type their own languages? More evidence of self-hate, blacks never embrace their own heritage or culture, they are obsessed with whites.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Are you aware you are typing ENGLISH? yet you sit behind your keyboard attacking the native british (including english) peoples?
??????????????
Why don't blacks type their own languages? More evidence of self-hate, blacks never embrace their own heritage or culture, they are obsessed with whites.
Because white people kidnapped us and forced a different culture down our throats
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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The very alphabet you write in origins lie in the Phonecian Alphabet which was derived from Egyptian Heiroglyphs.
Everywhere I look I see European Americans obsessed with China, Japan, India, Egypt, Persia, Zulu etc.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: If you are truly interested in early Kerma culture and Ta Seti that preceded Kemet then simply study, the info is there always was.. you may want to start with the Qustol incense burner for example for there was clear influence flowing north ward and then flowed back think A group culture but it behooves to shed your racism. No that is no hill that is all man made before Kemites colonized the area.
What’s clear is that Kerma’s civilisation emerged out of an ancient pastoral culture that had flourished in that part of Sudan since at least 7000 B.C. when the first settlements were established. Nearby Kerma archaeologists have discovered one of the two oldest cemeteries ever found in Africa – dating back to 7500 B.C. – and the oldest evidence of cattle domestication ever found in Sudan or, indeed, in the Egyptian Nile Valley. Around 3000 BC a town grew up not far from the Neolithic dwellings place. http://wysinger.homestead.com/kerma.html
Until then lets see if you really know how to act.
I've seent said incense burner, and it's not that impressive. It is so fragmentory that it's impossible to tell if the white crown is genuinely represented. It looks rather doubtful.
You can see, the little man in the crown is squeezed in to what is actually a missing area. It's not very convincing, to my mind.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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This is another point. If Britons and Nordics were so advanced(Which they were), why don't we see them building their native Architecture in Modern Form. Except for maybe Gothic(again Gothic style is native to France not Britain) and the Norwegian Wood Churches I can't recall any Arch. that is derived from ancient British styles.
As primitive as people claim Africans to be at least some still retain their culture to a certain extent.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Traditional West African architecture in modern implementation.
What what...
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: [I've seent said incense burner, and it's not that impressive. It is so fragmentory that it's impossible to tell if the white crown is genuinely represented. It looks rather doubtful.
You can see, the little man in the crown is squeezed in to what is actually a missing area. It's not very convincing, to my mind. [/qb]
wake up, you are only showing the portion of the circular incense burner that corresponds to the left section of the flattened illustration. The three of four other segments are not showing in the photo view.
The figure that is speculated to be wearing a white crown is in segment 2 Above the figure, supposedly a falcon
The following shows the circular shape of the incense burner. However I wasn't able to find the corresponding segment 2 view photo
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Are you aware you are typing ENGLISH? yet you sit behind your keyboard attacking the native british (including english) peoples?
??????????????
Why don't blacks type their own languages? More evidence of self-hate, blacks never embrace their own heritage or culture, they are obsessed with whites.
Because white people kidnapped us and forced a different culture down our throats
They did not kidnap anyone, they bought them from their black captors, lets be real. That was bad enough, of course, but let's be precise.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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Blacks are obsessed with whites just as much as whites are obsessed.
Just take a look at the typical banter that goes on on this forum. PURE OBSESSION WITH RACE.
Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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@Lioness Yes, obviously, but the drawing makes fairly clear which fragments are actually there and which bits are speculative reconstuctions. On the intact sections, there's nothing which seems to directly preherald Egyptian iconography.The 'white crown' is a tapering bottle shape that could be anything. The tip and base of the shape are missing.
Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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At times, kings and businessmen would sell the criminals in their society to the buyers so that they could no longer commit crimes in that area. Most other slaves were obtained from kidnappings, or through raids that occurred at gunpoint through joint ventures with the Europeans. Some Africans kings refused to sell any of their captives or criminals. King Jaja of Opobo refused to do business with the slavers completely. For this, he was captured along with his people.
After slavery with a sense of superiority, Europeans came into Africa and colonized with the intent to exploit resources and subjugate the people by force. The British did not accept full equality even for an African adopting British ways, and disapproved of interracial marriage.
-continuing attitudes, lip plate stereotypes in an attempt to humiliate
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Blacks are obsessed with whites just as much as whites are obsessed.
Just take a look at the typical banter that goes on on this forum. PURE OBSESSION WITH RACE.
In one sense "Blacks" and "Whites" appear to be opposites competing.
In another sense "Blacks" and "Whites" enjoy obsessing on each other as a game because subconsciously they both enjoy the privilege of being clearly defined by symbolic colors.
The other people of the world varying shades of light to dark don't identify by skin color.
For example a Mexican doesn't call themselves a "brown" and though some of them may be as dark as a "black" person they don't call themselves "black". They identify as Mexicans, nationality not skin color.
Similarly a Japanese person may have the exact same skin color as "white" person but they don't call themselves "white". They identify themselves as Japanese.
So called "Black people" and so called "White people" like to obsess on each other because they think that being identified by a symbolic skin color is a privilege.
This is why "African American" was an advance for us out of this nonsense.
But we reverted back to "Black" (Negro in Spanish) because we can't get off of that European created skin color based sense of entitlement.
This is why I prefer to call myself "African American"
But why be long winded. A Japanese person might have been born America and their parents born in America. Yet they still call themselves "Japanese" if you ask them and leave out the obvious "American" attachment to that.
This is why I call myself African
Technically an African American
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Blacks are obsessed with whites just as much as whites are obsessed.
Just take a look at the typical banter that goes on on this forum. PURE OBSESSION WITH RACE.
You are looking for excuses. While at the same time. Whites are more than whom ever studying and obsessed other peoples cultures and writing about it.
You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we. And it appears you now have a problem with this. Go figure!
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:I've greatly updated the wikipedia entry to clarify....
Respectfully, that is an example of exactly why wickipedia can NOT be taken seriously as a research tool/source of information- anyandeveryone who has access to internet can manipulate the info it contains...
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @Lioness Yes, obviously, but the drawing makes fairly clear which fragments are actually there and which bits are speculative reconstuctions. On the intact sections, there's nothing which seems to directly preherald Egyptian iconography.The 'white crown' is a tapering bottle shape that could be anything. The tip and base of the shape are missing.
You make this claim because you are clueless about the history on hieroglyphs.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: white people kidnapped us and forced a different culture down our throats
Nobody forced anything down your throat you willful ignoramus. You were born to serve Eurocentric lies.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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Qustul censer bearing serekh slightly earlier or contemporaneous to late dynasty 00, white crown before dynasty 0, and other symbols related to later dynastic royalty.
Building facade; bird topped standard; beast within barque; rosette, falcon topped serekh, white crown, all aboard barque; man on chair in barque. Note that the palace or temple facade is first in the photos but last in the drawing.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I speak as I find. I can't think of any great architectural monuments in Nubia that predate the period of Egyptian influence. If you show me them, I will acknowledge the fact. It seems to be a matter of historical record that Kilwa and Mogadishu were founded by Persians. I have not denied the sophistication of Yoruba and certain Nok artifacts, and there does seem to have been more going on in that corner of Africa than I imagined.
You are obviously ignorant of the fact that Egyptian pharaonic civilization is largely derived from that of Nubia. The Nubian kingdom of Ta-Seti is far older than those of any royal polities in predynastic Egypt and many pharaonic iconography, customs, etc. were in place in Nubia centuries before Egypt. Even the pharaonic style tombs and proto-mastabas were found in Nubia first. I suggest you do research on the archaeology of the Nile Valley before you rehash outdated theories of "Egyptian" influence in Nubia since it was the other way around.
quote:It's an accident of birth what colour one is, and who one's ancestors were, so no basis for any kind of chauvinism. It doesn't mean one can't judge historical cultures against each other. Cultural relativism is a way of making excuses for backwardness. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an admirable African in part because she doesn't feel obliged to accept the detrimental baggage from her own heritage, and is able to embrace the positive aspects of western civilization and modernity.
I'm disgusted by the ideas of head-hunting, human sacrifice and slave-taking whoever did it, so clearly I would not defend every aspect of ancient European culture. (That said, I doubt the Celtic religions were as bloodthirsty as the Romans made out. Many times more people were killed in the Roman arenas than ever were on Druidic altars). Slavery has been a shameful feature of otherwise-great civilizations all over the world. Peoples as advanced as the Carthaginians were said to resort to human sacrifice.
Nice speech, but you still seem to be in denial that the problem in academia as it is in today's Western society is still Eurocentrsim. Your very claims of African barbarism compared to Europe is proof of that. While I myself acknowledge the presence of advanced culture in northern and northwestern Europe before Roman times and coinciding with the neolithic, YOU seem to be in denial of the fact that the neolithic from which all these civilizations sprang was not an indigenous affair but was introduced from the Near East! You also seem to be in denial that not only was neolithic culture in Africa predate anything in Europe but that it was totally indigenous and and not derived from elsewhere!
At least you are honest that you don't know much about African history, but this coupled with the lack of archaeology in the continent outside of the Nile Valley is the source for all this ignorance.
Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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One of the problems with Eurocentrism are certain biased doctrines concerning the existence or development of advanced culture or the very definition of 'civilization'.
The root word 'civil' implies cities, yet is that a criteria of advanced culture? The ancient Egyptians for example had relatively few cities in its overall territory. The vast majority of inhabitants lived in small villages scattered throughout the Nile. In contrast, the civilizations of West Africa consisted of various coalitions of many city-states yet you hardly ever hear of civilizations in that part of Africa. It is all because of double-standards and biased thinking in part of Europeans.
I speak of these Eurocentric doctrines below, there is more:
#2 TECHNOLOGICAL CALIBRATION DOCTRINE: Insists on forcing archaeological finds as well as living cultures into a grid of "development" based on whether tools, materials and techniques valued by "Western" scholars were in use. Example: "They were a stone age civilization who never discovered the wheel!" This model forces cultures into a progressional paradigm: Old and New Stone Ages, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Industrial Revolution, Space Age. This classification ignores the complexity of culture, and the fact that metallurgic technology and military might are not the ultimate measure of advanced culture.
#3 STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT DOCTRINE: The assumption that "primitive" cultures represent lower "stages" in historical evolution, and have yet to attain advanced forms of culture. One English scholar referred to "the child-races of Africa." Usually, social hierarchy, militarization and industrialization are taken as prime measures of "advanced" civilization. In the 19th century, scholars openly used the terms "savage," "barbarian," "civilized." Though these offensive words have (mostly) been dropped, the underlying assumptions are still quite influential. (For a good discussion of how the insistence on talking about "tribes" distorts African history, see http://www.africaaction.org/bp/ethall.htm. )
#4 SPREAD OF CIVILIZATION DOCTRINE: Credits all achievements to conquering empires, assuming their superiority in science, technology, and government. Adherents are usually incapable of perceiving advanced earth-friendly systems of land management, agronomy, medicine, collective social welfare networks, healing, astronomical knowledge, or profound philosophical traditions among peoples considered "primitive" by dominant "Western" standards.
#5 PASSING OF THE TORCH DOCTRINE: Claims a chain of cultural transmission from Mesopotamia and Egypt to Greece to Rome to western Europe to the USA, leaving vast gaps where the history of the rest of the world should be. (And the discussion never returns to Egypt or Iraq to consider what happened there after the fall of their ancient empires.) Most of the planet's cultures are discussed only in relation to the European conquest, if mentioned at all. As a result, few people have any idea of the history of Sumatra, Honduras, Niger, Ecuador, Mozambique, Ohio, Hokkaido, Samoa, or even European countries such as Lithuania or Bosnia.
Ironically, these same biases has harmed European history by disregarding Celtic and Germanic culture as "barbaric" while focusing solely on the so-called "Classical" cultures of Greece and Rome despite the so many non-European derived features of their cultures!! In the meantime, going by these very same standards Africa would indeed be more 'civilized' than Europe since after all Europe had Greece and Rome and perhaps Iberia all along the Mediterranean whereas Africa had far greater:
Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Qustul censer bearing serekh slightly earlier or contemporaneous to late dynasty 00, white crown before dynasty 0, and other symbols related to later dynastic royalty.
Building facade; bird topped standard; beast within barque; rosette, falcon topped serekh, white crown, all aboard barque; man on chair in barque. Note that the palace or temple facade is first in the photos but last in the drawing.
It is an archaeological FACT that so-called Nubian 'A Group' culture was contemporaneous with Egyptian Naqada culture. It is also an archaeological FACT that the earliest evidence of kingship and royal burials come from A Group and only later appeared in Egyptian, particularly Naqada III culture! Almost all Egyptologists agree that since the discovery of finds in Qustul and Sayalah, there were no royal tombs in Egypt. Da-Ho-Tips can deny the depiction of the white crown all he wants. All other phraonic iconography from the serekh symbols, to the seated king, to even the royal totems of the baboon, hawk, etc. were found in the kingdom of Ta-Seti a.k.a. 'A Group Culture'.
Furthermore here is what anthropologists have discovered about the remains of the earliest known Egyptian kings in Naqada III Nekhen (Hierakonpolis):
A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently non-elite cemeteries and that the non-elite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighboring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighboring populations in southern Egypt.
T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance of Cranial and Dental Morphological Traits and Evidence for Endogamy in Ancient Egypt" American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp. 237-246 (2 p.1/4)
Coincidence? I think not! Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Anglophile_Pyramidiot: ''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
Actually with the exception of "mud huts", quite a lot, you fool!! Old Western literature is literally teeming with writings about how every kingdom and civilization found in Sub-Sahara was the result of "caucasian" Hamites or "black-skinned whites"! Of course Egypt was the very fountainhead of these Hamites. You yourself have proven such nonsensical great white lie propaganda in the thread you created here with its academic sources about how whites were the original inhabitants of Polynesia and Micronesia! LOL If White-washing extended as far as the Pacific, do you really think Sub-Saharan Africa was left unscathed?? Posts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Oh....and n*gg*rs never had any history contribution or accomplishment.
For you information, mud hut houses were also in Egypt.
And from an archeological point of view tools provided by the environment are the best providers. You should do some traveling and field research, xenophobic racist.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Ish. The guy shot himself in the face long before he made that comment when he created that stupid thread citing old literature stating that the original Polynesians and Micronesians were whites! LOLPosts: 26311 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Asante temples, Building and Palaces (1817, 1896, 1874, 1900)
View of the Aban within the Manhyia palace complex before being looted and blown up by the British army
^^^Kumase 1874 view from the Aban (before it was destroyed)
^^House of a priest in Adwenase 7 miles south of Ejisu near Kumase (lone figure)
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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Lol... then you aren't aware of the reaction Europeans had to Great Zimbabwe. They caused great damage trying to find evidence to support their theories. Don't forget the Hamitic hypothesis LOL
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
posted
I'm sorry about the lip plate remark, if that offended, yet it's true. Who would do this to their daughter? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/2625617617_cc8ce98c75.jpg Who would want a wife who can't smile, speak, kiss or drink properly? How the hell did that come about, of all the things you could invent? What could look worse than the dangling loop of stretched flesh and the gap of knocked-out teeth when the plate is removed?
The buildings of the Asante etc. in later times compare at best to those of the pre-medieval Saxons.
The mirror shown was first century, and could have been pre-Roman. Nothing about it's style is classical, the design is purely Celtic. There are dozens of others of similar pattern that certainly do predate Roman contact, eg. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/archaeology/treasure_gallery_02.shtml
Even back in the bronze age the Britons were producing jewellery and goldwork somewhat comparable with that of Egypt (the presence of amber and even faience indicating the extent of their trading connections)
By the way there is no connection between ancient British torcs (which were worn around the neck) and Persian bracelets.
The Anglo Saxons, who are substantially the ancestors of the modern English (with a bit of indigenous Celt, Viking and Norman thrown in) were not ignorant barbarians either, and their stupendous art owes little to the Romans. Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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It is about the Art and Architecture Of Africans with a heavy concentration of Western and Southern African cultures and civilizations in all their wonderful varieties, I am not one to demean the cultures and accomplishment of others but celebrate their uniqueness and ingenuity, this needn't be a pissing contest between who is better.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Lip plates are by a small African tribe, lip plates are also found amongst Indinious American (Amerindians). Lip plates trace the root back to Mesapotemia. The lip plates in the Northern part of East-Africa have a certain reason.....seriously get a grip dating back to the 6-7th century AD.
And fact is, by the studies that a marginal part of present-day British is from mass migration movements.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I'm sorry about the lip plate remark, if that offended, yet it's true. Who would do this to their daughter? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/2625617617_cc8ce98c75.jpg Who would want a wife who can't smile, speak, kiss or drink properly? How the hell did that come about, of all the things you could invent? What could look worse than the dangling loop of stretched flesh and the gap of knocked-out teeth when the plate is removed?
The buildings of the Asante etc. in later times compare at best to those of the pre-medieval Saxons.
The mirror shown was first century, and could have been pre-Roman. Nothing about it's style is classical, the design is purely Celtic. There are dozens of others of similar pattern that certainly do predate Roman contact, eg. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/archaeology/treasure_gallery_02.shtml
Even back in the bronze age the Britons were producing jewellery and goldwork somewhat comparable with that of Egypt (the presence of amber and even faience indicating the extent of their trading connections)
By the way there is no connection between ancient British torcs (which were worn around the neck) and Persian bracelets.
The Anglo Saxons, who are substantially the ancestors of the modern English (with a bit of indigenous Celt, Viking and Norman thrown in) were not ignorant barbarians either, and their stupendous art owes little to the Romans.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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This torc was made with great skill and tremendous care in the first half of the first century BC. It is one of the most elaborate golden objects made in the ancient world. Not even Greek, Roman or Chinese gold workers living 2000 years ago made objects of this complexity.
The torc is made from just over a kilogram of gold mixed with silver. It is made from sixty-four threads. Each thread was 1.9 mm wide. Eight threads were twisted together at a time to make 8 separate ropes of metal. These were then twisted around each other to make the final torc. The ends of the torc were cast in moulds. The hollow ends were then welded onto the ropes.
The torc was found when the field at Ken Hill, Snettisham was ploughed in 1950. Other hoards were found in the same field in 1948 and 1990. The torc was buried tied together with a complete bracelet by another torc. A coin found in caught in the ropes of the Great Torc suggests the hoard was buried around 75 BC.
Source: British museum.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
The mirror is Roman modeled. And obviously Roman in origin. And like all these type of mirrors dating back to 1-2th AD
Whitchurch Roman mirror
Object Name Roman hand mirror
Object Age Roman (1,875 to 1,825 years old)
Description
This fine example of a Roman hand mirror is one of many items discovered at the site of a Roman cemetery at Sedgeford outside Whitchurch in the 1970s. The mirror is made from speculum (a tin and copper alloy) and has 68 countersunk holes drilled around the edge for decoration. The surface is highly polished to make it reflective.
It is thought to have been made in the Netherlands sometime between 125-175 A.D. The mirror was found alongside the cremated remains of a mother and child placed within a pottery flagon. Also included in the grave were the remains of two joints of meat, one pork and one venison and a coin, possibly to pay the ferryman to take their souls to the underworld. Seventy-two nails mixed in with the cremated bone represent the remains of the cremated coffin. When the mirror was excavated its surface was covered with a thin layer of rotten wood. This is thought to be the remains of the mirror's oak case.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
The Celtic mirror is one of a number that have been discovered, and the style was obviously preferred by the Britons over anything the Romans could teach them. Most such mirrors seem to predate the Roman invasion by a century or more. http://www.celticmirrors.org/Posts: 870 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
If stuff derivative of other cultures is admissible then I could show this, which is the sort of thing the Britons had during Roman times... From the Mildenhall Hoard.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The Celtic mirror is one of a number that have been discovered, and the style was obviously preferred by the Britons over anything the Romans could teach them. Most such mirrors seem to predate the Roman invasion by a century or more. http://www.celticmirrors.org/
I think my sources are valid enough to speak on European history, aren't they?
Anyway, I do think the Romans took it from Africans and imported it into Britain. During the Ptolomy Hellenistic Greek-Roman rule.
Medium: Gold Place Collected: Saqqara, Egypt Dates: ca. 1938-1759 B.C.E. Dynasty: XII Dynasty Period: Middle Kingdom Dimensions: 1 7/8 in. (4.8 cm) high x 5/16 in. (0.8 cm) diameter
The skilled goldsmiths of Nubia created masterpieces such as a pendant of the goddess Isis from the tomb of a Nubian king at Nuri.
Queen Kawit, shown on her sarcophagus having her hair dressed, was one of the noble women believed to have been sent from Nubia to make diplomatic marriages with 11th-dynasty pharaoh Mentuhotep II. (2061 BC – 2010 BC)
Bronze, electrum, traces of gilding; H. 27.7 cm, W. 15.9 cm, Th. 3.5 cm
From Buhen, temple area in the Middle Kingdom fort New Kingdom, Eighteenth Dynasty, 1400 B.C. Khartoum, National Museum 18595
The small female figure which forms the handle wears a conical headdress into which the mirror's disk is inserted. She holds a small cat in her raised left hand. Around her hips is a diagonally striped belt, and the frontal areas of both upper thighs show tattoos inlaid with electrum. Earrings of gold probably once filled the holes drilled in the earlobes. The mirror was most likely dedicated as a votive offering in the temple of Buhen.
Mirror with Falcons Bronze, H. 21.9 cm, W. 12 cm, D. 1.4 cm Semna, Tomb S 552, 1539–1425 BC (New Kingdom, Early Dynasty 18) Harvard University—Boston Museum of Fine Arts Expedition: 27.872
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Yes, it's from the Romans who invaded Britain. Fine Roman art. It has typical Roman depictions as well.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: If stuff derivative of other cultures is admissible then I could show this, which is the sort of thing the Britons had during Roman times... From the Mildenhall Hoard.
String of Carnelian and Faience Disc Beads Carnelian and Faience, L. 19 cm, D. 0.5 cm Aniba, Tomb N944, 2400–1550 BC (C-Group) Gift of George Steindorff, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston: 50.4076
String of Amulets Faience, L. 24.5 cm, D. 1.8 cm Aniba, Tomb N825, 2400–1550 BC (C-Group) Gift of George Steindorff, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston: 50.4078
The above is well known. I think?
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I've seen the Nubian jewellery, and very nice it is too, if heavily derivative of Egypt. It is of a similar quality to the jewellery from the Sutton Hoo burial, which is also in the British Museum. The Sutton Hoo find as been called England's Tutankhamun's tomb.
posted
The discovery of Tut's tomb itself being a British achievement, of course, and a testimony to the tenacity of Howard Carter...
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Razor and mirror, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, early co-reign of Thutmose III and Hatshepsut, ca. 1479–1473 B.C. Egyptian; From the tomb of Hatnofer and Ramose, western Thebes Bronze and wood H. of mirror 6 3/4 in. (17 cm) Rogers Fund, 1936 (36.3.69,.13)
Source: Razor and mirror [Egyptian; From the tomb of Hatnofer and Ramose, western Thebes] (36.3.69,.13) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The discovery of Tut's tomb itself being a British achievement, of course, and a testimony to the tenacity of Howard Carter...
Discovery, achievement? His Egyptian laborers uncovered a series of steps leading down to a sealed door.
I my opinion it should have stayed where it was.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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