HAS EVERY INDIVIDUAL BEEN TESTED? I DON'T THINK SO! IF SO. PROOOOOVE IT!!!LOOOL
Endogamy and xenophobia play major contributions in the South. Something dorky white idiots like you don't understand.
Try to understand what you speak of, before you propose your crappy theory. So explain to me, what is MIDDLE EASTERN????
Fact is, ancient Egyptians show to cluster closets with people from the South, who came from the Sahara/ Sahel. Arabs came from where?lol
Let me repeat it again for you, dumbo!
Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions
Sonia R. Zakrzewski*
American Journal of Physical Anthropology Volume 121, Issue 3, pages 219–229, July 2003
Zakrzewski's studies on ancient Egyptians don't apply to the above modern people, try again
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^It has been argued numerous times that Ancient Egyptian art is not representative, because it tended to focus on the elite rather than commoners, so your shitty excuse makes no sense.
Now, where are these images of whites in congregation, you dumb idiot. Show them like how they appear below, but instead of brown skinned, show groups of white male and female nobles attending ceremonies:
In other words, show authentic non-late period images that have ancient Egyptian male and female nobles colored like this:
HAS EVERY INDIVIDUAL BEEN TESTED? I DON'T THINK SO! IF SO. PROOOOOVE IT!!!LOOOL
Endogamy and xenophobia play major contributions in the South. Something dorky white idiots like you don't understand.
Try to understand what you speak of, before you propose your crappy theory. So explain to me, what is MIDDLE EASTERN????
Fact is, ancient Egyptians show to cluster closets with people from the South, who came from the Sahara/ Sahel. Arabs came from where?lol
Let me repeat it again for you, dumbo!
Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions
Sonia R. Zakrzewski*
American Journal of Physical Anthropology Volume 121, Issue 3, pages 219–229, July 2003
Zakrzewski's studies on ancient Egyptians don't apply to the above modern people, try again
How do you know? Try again! looool
READ THE STUDY YOU SH*T HEAD.
Even though countless studies show that ancient Egyptians were tropical adapted in limb portions, close to people from the South, Sahara /Sahel type. Though distinct in their own African characteristics. Looked at by old anthropology as mixed race people. Then they go and say, they've always been like this!!!!
Recent studies show a stable continuation within AFRICA. Not foreign, from Europe or the Middle East.
Ancient Egyptians even speak of the South TA SETI. And Kem in the South to where returned to do rituals.
This is a major implication FOR YOU AND YOUR euro BRETHREN!
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity. As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Looked at by old anthropology as mixed race people
Because they are.
Thin noses and wavy-straight hair did not evolve in the tropical environment. These traits are exogenous to Africa and are Eurasian. So you had Eurasian migrants moving south and after the Bantu expansion, Negroid moving north.
Ethiopians, Somali and so forth are just Caucasoid-Negroid hybrids. Mutts in other words.
You want to claim 'tropical limbs' developed in the tropics only, but then contradict yourself by claiming Eurasian non-tropical traits like thin noses and wavy hair are in situ tropical adaptations as well...
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Looked at by old anthropology as mixed race people
Because they are.
Thin noses and wavy-straight hair did not evolve in the tropical environment. These traits are exogenous to Africa and are Eurasian. So you had Eurasian migrants moving south and after the Bantu expansion, Negroid moving north.
Ethiopians, Somali and so forth are just Caucasoid-Negroid hybrids. Mutts in other words.
You want to claim 'tropical limbs' developed in the tropics only, but then contradict yourself by claiming Eurasian non-tropical traits like thin noses and wavy hair are in situ tropical adaptations as well...
No dorky IDIOT, f/lying hog.
THERE WAS NO MASS MIGRATION INTO NORTHEAST AFRICA, ESPECIALLY THE DELTA. Ancient EGYPTIANS DISLIKED ASIATIC! The North of Egypt has most admixture and is at times completely foreign! This is why they show intermediate in body portions, unlike those from Middle and South Egypt.
THIS IS WHY MODERN STUDIES SHOW ANCIENT EGYPTIANS TO CLUSTER WITHIN AFRICAN TROPICAL ADAPTION! NOT COLD EURASIA!!!!
DAMN, YOU'RE SO STUPID IT'S UNBELIEVABLE!
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity.
As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:THIS IS WHY MODERN STUDIES SHOW THEM TO CLUSTER WITHIN AFRICAN TROPICAL ADAPTION!
Fail.
What study shows thin noses or wavy-straight hair having evolved in the tropical environment? This suggestion is retarded and defies evolution. The equivilant is saying Scandinavians have afros.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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quote:THIS IS WHY MODERN STUDIES SHOW THEM TO CLUSTER WITHIN AFRICAN TROPICAL ADAPTION!
Fail.
What study shows thin noses or wavy-straight hair having evolved in the tropical environment? This suggestion is retarded and defies evolution. The equivilant is saying Scandinavians have afros.
I don't know if there is a study, but I know the REGION! AND THEREFORE I KNOW THE CLIMATE IS SUITED FOR THESE TRAITS! But I think Swenet or Zarahan can help you out with this, on a more scientific level.
Therefore you fail!
If what you claim was true, other groups in Asia would not have straight hair, dorky.
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity.
As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.
Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).
Btw, your twist and tweak tactics showup general. loool
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: I don't know if there is a study, but I know the REGION! AND THEREFORE I KNOW THE CLIMATE IS SUITED FOR THESE TRAITS!
Therefore you fail!
If what you claim was true, other groups in Asia would not have straight hair, dorky.
Now you are demonstrating you believe in race, and that the physical variation in Africa is inter-regional (and can be divided up by geographical and enviromental factors)...
Clearly there is no single ''tropical african'' people - so stop using that bogus term.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: I don't know if there is a study, but I know the REGION! AND THEREFORE I KNOW THE CLIMATE IS SUITED FOR THESE TRAITS!
Therefore you fail!
If what you claim was true, other groups in Asia would not have straight hair, dorky.
Now you are demonstrating you believe in race, and that the physical variation in Africa is inter-regional (and can be divided up by geographical and enviromental factors)...
Clearly there is no single ''tropical african'' people - so stop using that bogus term.
I AM DEMONSTRATING BIODIVERSITY WITHIN A REGION, WHEN PEOPLE SHOW TROPICAL ADAPTED IN LIMBS, CLUSTERING WITH OTHER AFRICANS FROM THE SOUTH! DORKY!!!
THIS "TROPICAL BODY PLAN" OF COURSE IS A MAJOR IMPLICATION TO YOU. It's a valid anthropologic term. And you are a uneducated pseudo, wannabe university student. You have proven this by your pseudo rant.
quote:Morphological characteristics ...like skin color, hair form, bone traits, eyes, and lips tend to follow geographic boundaries coinciding often with climatic zones . This is not surprising since the selective forces of climate are probably the primary forces of nature that have shaped human races with regard not only to skin color and hair form but also the underlying bony structures of the nose, cheekbones, etc. (For example, more prominent noses humidify air better.) As far as we know, blood-factor frequencies are not shaped by these same climatic factors
Gill, George W. Does Race Exist? A Proponent's Perspective. University of Wyoming, 2000
YOU CAN'T DEVELOP TROPICAL LIMBS IN A MESOLITHIC ARTIC ENVIRONMENT, LIKE EURASIA!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote: Northern Egypt near the Mediterranean shows the same pattern- limb length data puts its peoples closer to tropically adapted Africans that cold climate Europeans
"...sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.
The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."
Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60
And descendants, from the same region as where the burials are!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:The full pigmentation sprectrum (pale white) to dark brown is only found in Caucasoids.
Note how only Caucasoids (Western Eurasians) have the full spectrum of pigmentation (pale white in northern Europe to dark brown in pockets of southern India):
''Caucasoids: Skin is fair in most of Europe, usually darker in Western Asia and India, and becoming almost black in Bengal and southern India.'' (Coon, 1965)
I am not interested in your outdated eugenics anthropology.
The Aryan Invasion Theory is False - Genetic Evidence
No trace of “demographic disruption” in the North-West of the subcontinent between 4500 and 800 BCE; this negates the possibility of any massive intrusion, by so-called Indo-Aryans or other populations, during that period.
Deep late Pleistocene genetic link between contemporary Europeans and Indians, provided by the mtDNA haplogroup U, which encompasses roughly a fifth of mtDNA lineages of both populations. Our estimate for this split [between Europeans and Indians] is close to the suggested time for the peopling of Asia and the first expansion of anatomically modern humans in Eurasia and likely pre-dates their spread to Europe.”
Haplogroup U, being common to North Indian and “Caucasoid” populations, was found in tribes of eastern India such as the Lodhas and Santals, which would not be the case if it had been introduced through Indo-Aryans. Such is also the case of the haplogroup M, another marker frequently mentioned in the early literature as evidence of an invasion: in reality, haplogroup M occurs with a high frequency, averaging about 60%, across most Indian population groups, irrespective of geographical location of habitat. Tribal populations have higher frequencies of haplogroup M than caste populations.”
- U.S. anthropologists Kenneth Kennedy, John Lukacs and Brian Hemphill.
Migrations into India “did occur, but rarely from western Eurasian populations.” There are low frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern India. Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’ — that is, part of a diverse north or north-east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago.
- U.S. biological anthropologist Todd R. Disotell.
There is a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity, pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.
- Scientists Susanta Roychoudhury and thirteen others studying 644 samples of mtDNA from ten Indian ethnic groups.
mtDNA haplogroup “M” common to India (with a frequency of 60%), Central and Eastern Asia (40% on average), and even to American Indians; however, this frequency drops to 0.6% in Europe, which is “inconsistent with the ‘general Caucasoidness’ of Indians.” This shows, once again, that “the Indian maternal gene pool has come largely through an autochthonous history since the Late Pleistocene.” U haplogroup frequency 13% in India, almost 14% in North-West Africa, and 24% from Europe to Anatolia. “Indian and western Eurasian haplogroup U varieties differ profoundly; the split has occurred about as early as the split between the Indian and eastern Asian haplogroup M varieties. The data show that both M and U exhibited an expansion phase some 50,000 years ago, which should have happened after the corresponding splits.” In other words, there is a genetic connection between India and Europe, but a far more ancient one than was thought.
If one were to extend methodology used to suggest an Aryan invasion based on Y-Dna statistics to populations of Eastern and Southern India, one would be led to an exactly opposite result: “the straightforward suggestion would be that both Neolithic (agriculture) and Indo-European languages arose in India and from there, spread to Europe.” The authors do not defend this thesis, but simply guard against “misleading interpretations” based on limited samples and faulty methodology.
The Chenchu tribe is genetically close to several castes, there is a “lack of clear distinction between Indian castes and tribes.
- Twenty authors headed by Kivisild - Archaeogenetics of Europe - 2000.
“Language families present today in India, such as Indo-European, Dravidic and Austro-Asiatic, are all much younger than the majority of indigenous mtDNA lineages found among their present-day speakers at high frequencies. It would make it highly speculative to infer, from the extant mtDNA pools of their speakers, whether one of the linguistically defined groups in India should be considered more ‘autochthonous’ than any other in respect of its presence in the subcontinent.”
- Mait Metspalu and fifteen co-authors analyzing 796 Indian and 436 Iranian mtDNAs. 2001.
Geneticist Toomas Kivisild led a study (2003) in which comparisons of the diversity of R1a1 (R-M17) haplogroup in Indian, Pakistani, Iranian, Central Asian, Czech and Estonian populations. The study showed that the diversity of R1a1 in India, Pakistan, and Iran, is higher than in Czechs (40%), and Estonians[12].
Kivisild came to the conclusion that "southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup": "Haplogroup R1a, previously associated with the putative Indo-Aryan invasion, was found at its highest frequency in Punjab but also at a relatively high frequency (26%) in the Chenchu tribe. This finding, together with the higher R1a-associated short tandem repeat diversity in India and Iran compared with Europe and central Asia, suggests that southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup".[12]
“Given the geographic spread and STR diversities of sister clades R1 and R2, the latter of which is restricted to India, Pakistan, Iran, and southern central Asia, it is possible that southern and western Asia were the source for R1 and R1a differentiation.”
- Kivilsid - 2003
Based on 728 samples covering 36 Indian populations, it announced in its very title how its findings revealed a “Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists,” i.e. of the Indo-Aryans, and stated its general agreement with the previous study. For instance, the authors rejected the identification of some Y-DNA genetic markers with an “Indo-European expansion,” an identification they called “convenient but incorrect ... overly simplistic.” To them, the subcontinent’s genetic landscape was formed much earlier than the dates proposed for an Indo-Aryan immigration: “The influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor. ... There is no evidence whatsoever to conclude that Central Asia has been necessarily the recent donor and not the receptor of the R1a lineages.”
“Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization rejected indirectly, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus....” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”
The frequencies of R2 seems to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time or co-habited, although more research is needed. R2 is very rare in Europe.
Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majumder, and P. A. Underhill. - 2006.
“The sharing of some Y-chromosomal haplogroups between Indian and Central Asian populations is most parsimoniously explained by a deep, common ancestry between the two regions, with diffusion of some Indian-specific lineages northward.”
“The Y-chromosomal data consistently suggest a largely South Asian origin for Indian caste communities and therefore argue against any major influx, from regions north and west of India, of people associated either with the development of agriculture or the spread of the Indo-Aryan language family.”
“Southern castes and tribals are very similar to each other in their Y-chromosomal haplogroup compositions.” As a result, “it was not possible to confirm any of the purported differentiations between the caste and tribal pools,” a conclusion that directly clashes with the Aryan invasion theory which purports that male European Aryans chased tribal adivasis and aboriginals down south.
Sanghamitra Sahoo, T. Kivisild and V. K. Kashyap. - 2006.
When Homo sapiens migrated out of Africa, he first reached South-West Asia around 75,000 BP, and from here, went on to other parts of the world. In simple terms, except for Africans, all humans have ancestors in the North-West of the Indian peninsula. In particular, one migration started around 50,000 BP towards the Middle East and Western Europe: “indeed, nearly all Europeans — and by extension, many Americans — can trace their ancestors to only four mtDNA lines, which appeared between 10,000 and 50,000 years ago and originated from South Asia.”
-Lluís Quintana-Murci,Vincent Macaulay,Stephen Oppenheimer,Michael Petraglia,and their associates
“For me and for Toomas Kivisild, South Asia is logically the ultimate origin of M17(Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a, associated with the male Aryan invasion theory) and his ancestors; and sure enough we find the highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in Pakistan, India, and eastern Iran, and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 is not only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia, but diversity characterizes its presence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as a marker of a ‘male Aryan invasion’ of India. One average estimate for the origin of this line in India is as much as 51,000 years. All this suggests that M17 could have found his way initially from India or Pakistan, through Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming into Europe.”
-Stephen Oppenheimer
A (2009) study headed by geneticist Swarkar Sharma, collated information for 2809 Indians (681 Brahmins, and 2128 tribals and schedule castes). The results showed "no consistent pattern of the exclusive presence and distribution of Y-haplogroups to distinguish the higher-most caste, Brahmins, from the lower-most ones, schedule castes and tribals". Brahmins from West Bengal showed the highest frequency (72.22%) of Y-haplogroups R1a1* hinting that it may have been a founder lineage for this caste group. The authors found it significant that the Saharia tribe of Madhya Pradesh had not only 28.07% R1a1, but also 22.8% R1a*, out of 57 people, with such a high percentage of R1a* never having been found before. Based on STR variance the estimated age of R1a* in India was 18,478 years, and for R1a1 it was 13,768 years.
In its conclusions the study proposed "the autochthonous origin and tribal links of Indian Brahmins" as well as "the origin of R1a1* ... in the Indian subcontinent".
S. Sharma, argued for an Indian origin of R1a1 lineage among Brahmins, by pointing out the highest incidence of R1a*, ancestral clade to R1a1, among Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharias, an Indian tribe. - Sharma et al 2009
"This paper rewrites history... there is no north-south divide." "There is no truth to the Aryan-Dravidian theory as they came hundreds or thousands of years after the ancestral north and south Indians had settled in India."
The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. "The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society."
"Impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different." The present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).
"The initial settlement took place 65,000 years ago in the Andamans and in ancient south India around the same time, which led to population growth in this part,'' said Thangarajan. He added, "At a later stage, 40,000 years ago, the ancient north Indians emerged which in turn led to rise in numbers here. But at some point of time, the ancient north and the ancient south mixed, giving birth to a different set of population. And that is the population which exists now and there is a genetic relationship between the population within India."
The study also helps understand why the incidence of genetic diseases among Indians is different from the rest of the world. Singh said that 70% of Indians were burdened with genetic disorders and the study could help answer why certain conditions restricted themselves to one population. For instance, breast cancer among Parsi women, motor neuron diseases among residents of Tirupati and Chittoor, or sickle cell anaemia among certain tribes in central India and the North-East can now be understood better, said researchers.
The researchers, who are now keen on exploring whether Eurasians descended from ANI, find in their study that ANIs are related to western Eurasians, while the ASIs do not share any similarity with any other population across the world. Thangaraj and Singh at a press conference.
"Reconstructing Indian Population History" - David Reich, Kumarasamy Thangaraj, Nick Patterson, Alkes L. Price & Lalji Singh - 2009
Ann Hum Genet. 2009 May;73(Pt 3):314-34. Epub 2009 Apr 15.
Inter- and extra-Indian admixture and genetic diversity in reunion island revealed by analysis of mitochondrial DNA. Dubut V, Murail P, Pech N, Thionville MD, Cartault F.
Source
Université Bordeaux 1, CNRS, UMR 5199 - PACEA, Laboratoire d'Anthropologie des Populations du Passé, Talence, France. vincent.dubut@univ-provence.fr
Abstract
Reunion Island is a French territory located in the western Indian Ocean. The genetic pattern of the Reunionese population has been shaped by contributions from highly contrasting regions of the world. Over the last 350 years, several migration waves and cultural and socio-economic factors have led to the emergence of six main ethnic groups in Reunion. India is one of the principal regions that contributed to the setting up of the Reunionese population. Diversity, demographic and admixture analyses were performed on mtDNA variation of the Reunionese of Indian ancestry, including the Malbar and Zarab ethnic groups, in order to question their history. Using a phylogeographical approach, we generated and analysed quantitative data on the contribution of the Indian parental populations. Furthermore, we showed that the settlement of Reunion Island by Indians did not involve a founder effect, except in the very beginning of the Reunionese settlement (at the end of the 17(th) century). The accuracy of our results was optimised by a re-evaluation of the classification of the Southern Asian mtDNA haplogroups. Finally, by comparing our results to a previous study dealing with the Reunionese population, we highlighted how ethno-historical data are critical for reconstructing the complex history of multiethnic populations.
quote:
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?
My essay discusses several known examples.
quote:Based on an ancient wall painting in the Tomb of Meresankh (G7350) which dates to the Old Kingdom, 26th century BC (Dynasty IV) we know Hetepheres II was blonde haired (cf. Illustr. London News, 9 July, 1927, p. 69).
The painting shows her ''bright yellow hair, striped horizontally with red'' (Wainright, 1938, p. 42). Upon discovery she became known to Egyptologists as the ''fair haired daughter of Cheops'' (Reisner, ''The Tomb of Meresankh...'', Bulletin of the Museum of Fine Arts, Vol. 25, No. 151, 1927, p. 66). She is also regarded as the earliest depicted blonde in ancient Egyptian art (Art and Archaeology, AIA, 1927, Vol. 24, pp. 191-193; Coon, Races of Europe, 1939, p. 98). Her grand-daughter, of Dynasty V, is also found in art depicted as a blonde (Wainright, 1938, p. 42 cf. Scharff, OLZ, 1928, col. 80).
For other sources see Karl Earlson's article 'Nordic Egypt', followed by 'Redheaded Pharaoh Ramesses II' -
Anwar Sadat's father, Anwar Mohammed El Sadat, was an Egyptian, and his mother, Sit Al-Berain was born in Egypt to a Sudanese father and Egyptian mother.
African Population SNP admixture .
. ANWAR, frizzy medium-short strands
YUYA, long non-frizzy strands Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?
My essay discusses several known examples.
You cannot infer from a phucking picture whether a golden haired person has any association with Europeans, let alone, a ''Nordid'', you phucking buffoon. Even if its really blond hair, Europeans aren't the only Eurasians with blond hair.
So, if we're dealing with a Nordid elite, where are the Nordid males?
Hetepheres' spouse:
Hetepheres' father:
Where are the Nordid males in this family?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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[QUOTE]Based on an ancient wall painting in the Tomb of Meresankh (G7350) which dates to the Old Kingdom, 26th century BC (Dynasty IV) we know Hetepheres II was blonde haired (cf. Illustr. London News, 9 July, 1927, p. 69).
Assuming that Hetepheres II was blonde haired, you have found one piece of art of a royal person showing hair or a wig of blond color.
The fact that we could post hundreds of black haired ancient Egyptian royals shows that what your are claiming is an extremely rare exception at best when it comes to ancient Egyptian royalty prior to the late period. Therefore your argument for Nordic Egypt is extremly weak in context
^^^and here we see Hetepheres "hair" is not even that yellow, compare to the object at the upper right and as Sweetnet says what is that dark male doing there, did he forget he was Nordic?
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Anwar Sadat's father, Anwar Mohammed El Sadat, was an Egyptian, and his mother, Sit Al-Berain was born in Egypt to a Sudanese father and Egyptian mother.
African Population SNP admixture .
. ANWAR, frizzy medium-short strands
YUYA, long non-frizzy strands
YES, THAT IS TRUE!LOOL
This was exceptional and is unusual. You probably don't know that there are people in the North of Egypt with kinky Afro-texture hair.
So your rant is baseless as usually. Due to lack of knowledge on the continent, impostor black woman.
You fell for the trap, you junk yard brain!
Overall, these studies can be interpreted as suggesting that the Egyptian Nile Valley's indigenous population had a craniofacial pattern that evolved and emerged in northeastern Africa, whose geography in relationship to climate largely explains the variation.
semi-tropical/arid tropic zones, show clear limb proportion characteristics of tropically adapted people, and MORE closely resemble other tropically adapted Africans on the continent, than Europeans or Middle Easterners. (Raxter and Ruff 2008, Zakrewski 2003, 2007; Holliday et al, 2003, Kemp, 2005) 3) Undermining claims of cold-climate or skin color primacy for civilization, the great ancient Nile Valley civilization arose from the 'darker' more tropical south, NOT the cold climate or cool climate Mediterranean, Europe or Asia. (Clark, 1982; Shaw 1976, 2003; Bard, 2004; Vogel, 1997; Kemp 2005)
African peoples are the most diverse in the world whether analyzed by DNA or skeletal or cranial methods. The peoples of the Nile Valley vary but they are still related. The people most related ethnically to the ancient Egyptians are other Africans like Nubians not cold-climate/light skinned Europeans or Asiatics. (Keita 1996; Rethelford, 2001; Bianchi 2004, Yurco 1989; Godde 2009)
You still haven't explained what is genetically so middle eastern about Egyptians,I am still waiting...?Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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YUYA, long non-frizzy strands YES, THAT IS TRUE!LOOL
This was exceptional and is unusual. You probably don't know that there are people in the North of Egypt with Afro texture hair.
You still haven't explained what is genetically so middle eastern about Egyptians,I am still waiting...?
I'm not clear exactly on what you are calling exceptional and unusual
anyway here is my husband when he had a bigger fro back in the day. yet his momma was white
but if you made a sculpture of him you couldn't tell he was half white
LOL THIS EXPOSES YOU ONCE MORE ON THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE! IT'S FUNNY!
Your husband? lol Unless you claim to be Michelle Obama.
I btw, have posted that there are North Egyptians with Afro-texture hair.
Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: I btw, have posted that there are North Egyptians with Afro-texture hair.
so what, I know that some people who live in Egypt have Afro-texture hair.
.
posting children is weak, no more little kids please Serbian kid
even white people have black noses when they are young kids.
^^^show me a full grown black man in Africa with this type of hair
.
Another dumb rant by you. If the boy grows older what will his hair be like? DUMBASS!!!!! And most likely, you will not find grown men with hair like that, going fagetoschios. Plus African hair curls, like the 18'th Dynasty Yuya's hair curls.
You know about Afro-texture hair in North Egypt because we showed this to you. Delusional clown!
Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern????????????????????? Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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[QUOTE]Based on an ancient wall painting in the Tomb of Meresankh (G7350) which dates to the Old Kingdom, 26th century BC (Dynasty IV) we know Hetepheres II was blonde haired (cf. Illustr. London News, 9 July, 1927, p. 69).
Assuming that Hetepheres II was blonde haired, you have found one piece of art of a royal person showing hair or a wig of blond color.
The fact that we could post hundreds of black haired ancient Egyptian royals shows that what your are claiming is an extremely rare exception at best when it comes to ancient Egyptian royalty prior to the late period. Therefore your argument for Nordic Egypt is extremly weak in context
^^^and here we see Hetepheres "hair" is not even that yellow, compare to the object at the upper right and as Sweetnet says what is that dark male doing there, did he forget he was Nordic?
Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262
As Brothwell and Spearman (‘63) point out, reddish-brown ancient hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. This color was seen in a large proportion of the Semna sample, and also noted by Titlbachova and Titlbach (‘77) on Egyptian material, where it also may have resulted from the mummification process. However, the large number of blond hairs that are not associated with the cuticular damage that bleaching produces, probably points to a significantly lighter-haired population than is now present in the Nubian region. Brothwell and Spearman (’63) noted genuinely blond ancient Egyptian samples using reflectance spectrophotometry. Blondism, especially in young children, is common in many darkhaired populations (e.g., Australian, Melanesian), and is still found in some Nubian villages (J. Zabkar, personal communication).
Only one sample (M197) showed cuticular damage and irregularities definitely consistent with bleaching, although bleaching could not be ruled out in some of the blond samples.
In the early 20th century much was made over the ancestry of Hetepheres II. A relief from the tomb of her daughter, Meresankh III, depicts the queen with blonde hair.
However, closer inspection reveals that she was not a natural blonde, but rather the owner of a unique and, we can speculate, much coveted blonde wig.
Limestone statue of Hetep-Heres II (mother) and Meres-Ankh III (daughter) from their tomb G 7530-7540 at Giza, dating to the 4th Dynasty. Paired statues of mother and daughters are common (but less so that husband and wife pairs). Queen Hetep-Heres was a daughter of King Khufu and was married to Prince Kawab. Meres-Ankh is known to have died before her mother and was married to King Khafra (builder of the second great pyramid at Giza) and the statue was a gift from her mother.
Khufu,
Kawab,
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern????????????????????? [/QB]
they are often charcterized by the presence of Y chromosome Haplogoup J believed to have originated in the Near East or Caucus
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: ^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something
Southern Europeans and Turks have chocolate complexions??!! That's a nasty lie of a tale if I heard one! LOL
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_PrimeIdiot: Note how only Caucasoids (Western Eurasians) have the full spectrum of pigmentation (pale white in northern Europe to dark brown in pockets of southern India):
''Caucasoids: Skin is fair in most of Europe, usually darker in Western Asia and India, and becoming almost black in Bengal and southern India.'' (Coon, 1965)
So southern Indians are Caucasians too and their complexions which according to the map above are the same as most Sub-Saharans are actually continuous with northern Europeans??! LMAO
Another nasty tale of a lie!
Lie, lie, lie. That's all these trolls ever do! Yet we even bother to shoot down and refute such absurd fibs. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.
quote:Originally posted my master:
^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something
Southern Europeans and Turks have chocolate complexions??!! That's a nasty lie of a tale if I heard one! LOL
there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin
Turk
Thai
Kazanlak Bulgarian
Indian
Sicilian
______________________________________
now you can claim, with your true negro concepts (when you use "negro" in quotes) that Africans must be some particular "chocolate" shade of your liking but the point is any one of the above men could be a match for an Egyptian skin complexion
tell Nigerian actor Chidi Mokeme he's not "chocolate" enough
the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.
quote:Originally posted my master:
^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something
Southern Europeans and Turks have chocolate complexions??!! That's a nasty lie of a tale if I heard one! LOL
there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin
Turk
Thai
Kazanlak Bulgarian
Indian
Sicilian
______________________________________
now you can claim, with your true negro concepts (when you use "negro" in quotes) that Africans must be some particular "chocolate" shade of your liking but the point is any one of the above men could be a match for an Egyptian skin complexion
tell Nigerian actor Chidi Mokeme he's not "chocolate" enough
the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this
Yes, I patty your head off again. Isn't it ironic everywhere else a variety of color complexion can occur, in your small brain. But When it comes to Africa it can't, in your small brain. Even though people have lived in complete different environments for thousands of years. You are so damn dumb, it's pathetic.
Funny how you will post anyone but SOUTH EGYPTIANS. YOU HAVE THE HEART OF A DEMON!!!!!
I don't know what a Turk, Indian, Kazanlak Bulgarian, Thai has to do with this...Since,..they don't comprise with ancient Egyptians or tropical African limb portions!
The nubian mesolithic: A consideration of the Wadi Halfa remains
This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.
A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis.
Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.
From about 20,000 BCE, there are further refinements in stone technology. Very specialized tools appeared, including arrowheads, fishhooks, grindstones, and awls. These most refined of stone implements have the generic name 'microlithic.' This era of the late Paleolithic also saw the development of complex composite tools such as bows and arrows. As well, fishing equipment, including boats, and even pottery appeared in some environmental niches. As tools became more specialized and finely made, local variations, including stylistic ones, became more and more the rule...
From the standpoint of African history the most important development of the late Stone Age was the emergence of more settled ('sedentary') societies. These probably developed first along the banks of the Upper Nile in the Cataracts region, in modern day southern Egypt and northern Sudan (ancient Nubia). Evidence of barley harvesting there dates from as early as 16,000 BCE. The ability to make greater use of abundant wild grains, probably coupled with greater exploitation of aquatic resources, led to a more settled existence for some people. These more sedentary peoples were a part of what is now known collectively as the African Aquatic Culture/ Tradition. This way of life spread from the Upper Nile into a much larger area of Africa during the last great wet phase of African climate history, which began about 9,000 and peaked about 7,000 BCE. The higher rainfall levels of the period created numerous very large shallow lakes across what are now the arid southern borderlands of the Sahara desert. Inhabitants of shore communities crafted microlithic tools to exploit a marine environment: fishing and trapping aquatic animals. This provided abundant food supplies, particularly high in protein and supported the earliest known permanent settlements. Culturally and linguistically related peoples ancestral to modern Black Africans established settlements throughout this vast, ancient great lakes area. It is theorized that they spoke the mother Nilo-Saharan tongue. Sophisticated water-related technologies supported not only the development of settled communities, but also the invention of things like pottery, which were formerly thought to be associated exclusively with the Food Production Revolution of the later New Stone Age, or Neolithic. While the African aquatic tradition itself lasted only until the beginning of the modern drier period, around 3,000 BCE, its legacy has been felt ever since.
Basil Davidson, Africa in History (1975)
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.
quote:Originally posted my master:
^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something
Southern Europeans and Turks have chocolate complexions??!! That's a nasty lie of a tale if I heard one! LOL
there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin
Turk
Thai
Kazanlak Bulgarian
Indian
Sicilian
______________________________________
now you can claim, with your true negro concepts (when you use "negro" in quotes) that Africans must be some particular "chocolate" shade of your liking but the point is any one of the above men could be a match for an Egyptian skin complexion
tell Nigerian actor Chidi Mokeme he's not "chocolate" enough
the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this
Wipeout!!!!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
After taking an break from ES, I see we are in the middle of an war for the mind of the posters and showing them the TRUTH about Africa and Africans, Gods people created 1st.
There is hope out there for people who struggle, and defend the TRUTH. It may get bleak sometimes, but as long as we trod ahead for the greater good We are doing what We as an human race caqn accomplish under the guidance and support of God.
FACTS: 1. Blacks(African, Indians) Are the oldest people. 2. The Afro Hair of Africans, is an living Hair that certain haters of Themselves put chemicles in to "kill" the hair, so it could hang Limp and Dead like majority if people in this worthless world. 3. The Features of Africans are as beauiful as any others(Think lips, Beautiful Color etc). 4. There is an real reason why The KILLuminati freemasons want to weaken the Black race. Control the Blacks you basically control the people that have overcome the most and have stood in the way of evil cults and corrupting beleafs. Blacks must stay strong through these tough times and know the will be heck to pay for those who brainwash our children. Why do you think Freedom Fighters from America and Caribbean and Africa were able to fight for the rights of the peoole and others. Leadership is an quality that many Blacks are blessed with for being the 1st people created. Look around the world. Human race needs to return to True Followers of God soldiers of Christ. Even then, It's not man that decides who gets the blessing, ONLY GOD. Remember the story of Paul and how he persecuted the church and had many Christians killed. God spoke to him in an vision and his life was transformed to one of the Greatest leaders of Christian faith. So people God uses Blacks, Whites etc to further his purpose regardless of there background.
Another thing I HATE, Is that Indians(Who are Black) like to make claims about Africans and put them down and act like they are better then Africans. Indians are the most brainwashed Blacks who aspire to look like there oppressors thats why they Bleach there skin in India, Pakistan etc. One thing Indians must Understand is that they Are Africans younger brothers. Why Indians who look down on Africans, like to live with Africans wherever Africans are. Africans go to the Caribbean, Here comes Indians. Africans go to Africa, Here comes Indians. You never see Africans beating down the doors of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka to live with Indians, Yet Indians Follow Africans Everywere they Go. Indians must break free from the shacles of Self Hate, where they put EUropean features on an pedastal and try desperatly to conform to it.
The Good thing is Africans welcomes others to live and prosper with them. Look at the Chinese in Nigeria, They are over 50, 000 and the don't get attacked or targeted only some ignorant Indians in Uganda were kicked out of Africa because they were basically trying to take over the country basically(could be wrong). Even then though, that happened in one country in Africa. Look at Kenya, South Africa, zimbabwe. They have Indians from around The Indian subcontinet living in peace and realizing they are also Black.
Sadly In White Countries like Canada, US etc, The Sometimes cowardly Indians will have no qualms of hating and insulting Africans. It seems when the reach the west with Africans, they are quick to side with the Whites and bascically ISH on Africans. I have neighbours in my city Indians, Who say things without even thinking say stuff like "Blacks" should go back to the jungles and that They are scared Blacks will rob them(These Indians seem to think they have pink skin like whites Bahahahah) Thats how pathetic some Indians are when it comes to there own people. The greatest traite an man can show is forgivness in the face if Hate. Blacks Forgive Indians, Thats why they are still INdians All around East and South Africa and also in countries like senegal etc. WHen the Unity of The Black man, Evolved(Equal ethincites speaking) White man etc happens then we won't get attacked for catching Rain Water for our people(YES PEOPLE BELIEVE IT, AN MAN WAS ARESSTED FOR CATCHING WATER IN AN HOLE TO DRINK AND FOR HIS CROPS, OREGON ELITES CLAIM THEY AND THEY ALONE CONTROL THE WATER FROM THE CLOUDS)
To Finish let me finish by saying I see many People Black, White, Arab, Iranian, Saudi, growing Afros. Don't stop, Afros mean you have HAIR THAT STANDS AT attention. Soldier Hair. All people who have rge ability to grow Fros, Don't let this worthless world fool you into thinking it ugly. Cassi makes me laugh beacause Afros, Slanted Eyes(Asians) are some of the most beautiful traits you can have, Yet Women listen to an world where majority of Euros had dead hair that hangs limp to there scalp. Asians think there eyes are ugly and have surgery to make them big. Asians really don't have the Body of Black ANd White women Latin etc. WHat they do have is Beautiful eyes and thick lips. Be happy how God made you and don't forget we are One Community and One Blood.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
^^I would not worry too much about Indians. A look at their sub-continent reveals unimpressive "role models" qualified to lecture any other group.
Hawass: I believe that those people settled in the Nile Valley since the old Stone Age, more than 100,000 B.C. and they settled by the Nile. Those people when they went to the desert to hunt animals and to make their own tools and to invent fire and they really always come to the Nile. Then they looked at the Nile and they used this source to make their civilization. And if you look at their religious belief it's unique. From the predynastic period they found out for a king to become a God he has to do certain things in his life: build a tomb, temples for the worship of the Gods, smiting the enemies of Egypt, unification of the two lands, giving offering to the Gods; if you do that you will become a God. And therefore I say all the time that pyramids built Egypt. Because building the tombs made the Egyptians to create technology and astronomy and architecture.
then he contradicts himself:
Hawass: I really do not believe that Egypt is an African civilization. I believe that Egyptian civilization was unique. Egypt is in Africa but Egyptian civilization has nothing to do with the African cultures. Because of many, many, many features if you look at the Pharonic period it's completely different from anything. If you look at the production or the technology that the Egyptians left it's completely different from any belief at any time. If you look at the Egyptian from the Anthropological point of view they are different from the African. And this is why I believe that Pharonic Egypt is completely unique, they have no connection with the African..
SO let's see.. they have no connection with African cultures, yet they somehow came from "somewhere" and "settled in the Nile Valley" with tools, and cultural practices of the surrounding areas.. Yet they have "no connection".. Nice.. And this guy is supposed to have a PhD?
And here is what credible scientists have to say about "those people":
"A large number of gods go back to prehistoric times. The images of a cow and star goddess (Hathor), the falcon (Horus), and the human-shaped figures of the fertility god (Min) can be traced back to that period. Some rites, such as the "running of the Apil-bull," the "hoeing of the ground," and other fertility and hunting rites (e.g., the hippopotamus hunt) presumably date from early times.. Connections with the religions in southwest Asia cannot be traced with certainty." "It is doubtful whether Osiris can be regarded as equal to Tammuz or Adonis, or whether Hathor is related to the "Great Mother." There are closer relations with northeast African religions. The numerous animal cults (especially bovine cults and panther gods) and details of ritual dresses (animal tails, masks, grass aprons, etc) probably are of African origin. The kinship in particular shows some African elements, such as the king as the head ritualist (i.e., medicine man), the limitations and renewal of the reign (jubilees, regicide), and the position of the king's mother (a matriarchal element). Some of them can be found among the Ethiopians in Napata and Meroe, others among the Prenilotic tribes (Shilluk)." (Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian Religion" , pg 506-508)
Hypocrisy of Eurocentrists and Egyptian racists
Egyptian dynastic civilization based from the 'darker' south (Upper Egypt) not the north (Lower Egypt)
QUOTE(s): "While not attempting to underestimate the contribution that Deltaic political and religious institutions made to those of a united Egypt, many Egyptologists now discount the idea that a united prehistoric kingdom of Lower Egypt ever existed."
"While communities such as Ma'adi appear to have played an important role in entrepots through which goods and ideas form south-west Asia filtered into the Nile Valley in later prehistoric times, the main cultural and political tradition that gave rise to the cultural pattern of Early Dynastic Egypt is to be found not in the north but in the south.": --The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 1, From the Earliest Times to c. 500 BC, (Cambridge University Press: 1982), Edited by J. Desmond Clark pp. 500-509
"..the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life." (Source: Shaw, ---Thurston (1976) Changes in African Archaeology in the Last Forty Years in African Studies since 1945. p. 156-68. London.)
Egyptian state founded from the south, and indigenous in character. Egyptians dominated Palestine in some eras.
"What is truly unique about this state is the integration of rule over an extensive geographic region, in contrast to other contemporaneous Near Easter polities in Nubia, Mesopotamia, Palestine and the Levant. Present evidence suggests that the state which emerged by the First Dynasty had its roots in the Nagada culture of Upper Egypt, where grave types, pottery and artifacts demonstrate an evolution of form from the Predynastic to the First Dynasty, This cannot be demonstrated for the material culture of Lower Egypt, which was eventually displaced by that which originated in Upper Egypt. Hierarchical society with much social and economic differentiation, as symbolized in the Nagada II cemeteries of Upper Egypt, does not seem to have been present, then, in Lower Egypt, a fact which supports an Upper Egyptian origin for the unified state. Thus archaeological evidence cannot support earlier theories that the founders of Egyptian civilization were an invading Dynastic race from the east.."
"Egyptian contact in the 4th millennium B.C. with SW Asia is undeniable, but the effect of this contact on state formation is Egypt is less clear... The unified state which emerged in Egypt in the 3rd millenium B.C. however, was unlike the polities in Mesopotamia, the Levant, northern Syria, or Early Bronze Age Palestine- in sociopolitical organization, material culture, and belief system. There was undoubtedly heightened commercial contact with SW Asia in the 4th millennium B.C., but the Early Dynastic state which emerged in Egypt is unique and religious in character." (Bard, Kathryn A. 1994 The Egyptian Predynastic: A Review of the Evidence. Journal of Field Archaeology 21(3):265-288.)
"From Petrie onwards, it was regularly suggested that despite the evidence of Predynastic cultures, Egyptian civilization of the 1st Dynasty appeared suddenly and must therefore have been introduced by an invading foreign 'race'. Since the 1970s however, excavations at Abydos and Hierakonpolis have clearly demonstrated the indigenous, Upper Egyptian roots of early civilization in Egypt.
Contact between northern Egypt and Palestine was overland, as evidence in northern Sinai demonstrates.. Israeli archealogists suggest that this evidence represents a commercial network established and controlled by the Egyptians as early as EBA Ia, and that this network was a major factor in the rise of the urban settlements found later in Palestine EBA II. Naomi Porat's technological study of ceramics from EBA sites in southern Palestine clearly demonstrates that in EBA Ib strata many of the pottery vessels used for food preparation were probably manufactured by Egyptian potters using Egyptian technology but local Palestinian clays. In EBA Ib strata there are also many storage jars made from Nile silt and marl wares, which must have been imported from Egypt. Not only did the Egyptians establish camps and way stations in northern Sinai, but the ceramic evidence also suggests that they established a highly organized network of settlements in southern Palestine where an Egyptian population was in residence." --(Ian Shaw ed. (2003) The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt By Ian Shaw. Oxford University Press, page 40-63)
Much older scholarship shows cultural similarities between ancient Egypt and the rest of Africa, contradicting claims of Middle Eastern inspiration.
--Specific central African tool designs found at the well known Naqada, Badari and Fayum archaeological sites in Egypt (de Heinzelin 1962, Arkell and Ucko, 1956 et al). Shaw (1976) states that "the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life."
-Pottery evidence first seen in the Saharan Highlands then spreading to the Nile Valley (Flight 1973).
-Art motifs of Saharan rock paintings showing similarities to those in pharaonic art. A number of scholars suggest that these earlier artistic styles influenced later pharaonic art via Saharans leaving drier areas and moving into the Nile Valley taking their art styles with them (Mori 1964, Blanc 1964, et al)
--Earlier pioneering mummification outside Egypt. The oldest mummy in Africa is of a black Saharan child (Donadoni 1964, Blanc 1964) Frankfort (1956) suggests that it is thus possible to understand the pharaonic worldview by reference to the religious beliefs of these earlier African precursors. Attempts to suggest the root of such practices are due to Caucasoid civilizers from elsewhere are thus contradicted by the data on the ground.
--Several cultural practices of Egypt show strong similarities to an African totemic clan base. Childe (1969, 1978), Aldred (1978) and Strouhal (1971) demonstrate linkages with several African practices such as divine kingship and the king as divine rainmaker.
--Physical similarities of the early Nile valley populations with that of tropical Africans. Such connections are demonstrated in the work of numerous scholars such as Thompson and Randall Mclver 1905, Falkenburger 1947, and Strouhal 1971. The distance diagrams of Mukherjee, Rao and Trevor (1955) place the ancient Badarians genetically near 'black' tribes such as the Ashanti and the Taita. See also the "Issues of lumping under Mediterranean clusters" section above for similar older analyses.
--Serological (blood) evidence of genetic linkages. Paoli 1972 for example found a significant resemblance between ABO frequencies of dynastic Egyptians and the black northern Haratin who are held to be the probable descendants of the original Saharans (Hiernaux, 1975).
--Language similarities which include several hundred roots ascribable to African elements (UNESCO 1974)
--Ancient Egyptian origin stories ascribing origins of the gods and their ancestors to African locations to the south and west of Egypt (Davidson 1959)
--Advanced state building and political unity in Nubia, including writing, administrative apparatus and insignia some 300 years before dynastic Egypt, and the long demonstrated interchange between Nubia and Egypt (Williams 1980)
--Newer studies (Wendorf 2001, Wilkinson 1999, et al.) confirm these older analyses. Excavations from Nabta Playa, located about 100km west of Abu Simbel for example, suggest that the Neolithic inhabitants of the region were migrants from Sub-Saharan Africa, based on cultural similarities and social complexity which is thought to be reflective of Egypt's Old Kingdom
--Other scholars (Wilkinson 1999) present similar material and cultural evidence- including similarities between predynastic Egypt and traditional African cattle-culture, typical of Southern Sudanese and East African pastoralists of today, and various cultural and artistic data such as iconography on rock art found in both Egypt and in the Sudan.
QUOTE by Egyptologist about "those people"
"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeast African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egyptian in a close relationship with languages spoken today as far west as Chad, and as far south as Somalia. Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons...
Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization.."
-- Source: Donald Redford (2001) The Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p.28
Sorry Hawass- "those people" will not go away.. That last bit quoted is by conservative Egyptologist Donald Redford who has worked frequently with Hawass over the years...
Hawass sez: "Egyptian civilization has nothing to do with the African cultures."
Yet conservative mainstream the Egyptologists he works with show the opposite...
Can any one say Hawass is full of BS? I knew you could..
A Question of Colour: Is Racial Prejudice on the Rise in Egypt, or are Egyptians Merely Obsessed with Skin Colour? by Gamal Nkrumah
It is not an entirely curious fact that most Egyptians seem fixated on blue-eyed blondes. For one thing, the country is peopled essentially by dark-skinned, dark-haired people, and familiarity does breed contempt. Blue-eyed blondes are an exotic rarity. Mind you, an ever increasing number of well-heeled Egyptian women are desperately resorting to skin-lightening creams, light coloured-tinted contact lenses and hair bleaching dyes in an often farcical attempt to attain the golden-locked look.
Admittedly, all this is part of a global trend. Yellow-thatched Japanese youngsters are a common sight in Tokyo nowadays. Mercifully, the phenomenon hasn't quite caught on in Cairo, yet.
The whitening of Egypt has become a lucrative industry. Television commercials bombard viewers with a baffling array of skin-lightening creams and hair-straightening contraptions, creams and shampoos to effect the "white" look.
"Nothing is more dangerous than an idea when it's the only one you have," noted French philosopher Emile Chartier. Perhaps, he didn't have the single-minded struggle to be "white" in mind. To pass as white has become, for some, their veritable raison d'jtre.
The Egyptians see themselves as essentially sumr, or "dark". However, for all intents and purposes this is a most confusing and contentious term. If an individual is described as asmar, the masculine, or samra, the feminine, they could range in colour from the southern Sudanese ebony or indigo black, a west African chocolate or mahogany black, the various copper and honey-toned Ethiopian and Somali types, to the olive or off-white dark-haired Mediterranean or Middle Eastern-looking type.
Samara, or "Darkie", traditionally a term of endearment, has today taken on pejorative connotations in contemporary Egypt. The ugly forces of "shadism" are also at work in the country. Shadism, as a social and politico-economic occurrence was, and perhaps still is, pervasive in the Caribbean and among African Americans. Lighter-skinned blacks, who presumably had a greater infusion of white blood have been considered socially superior to darker, full-blooded blacks.
Suspected of actually being the slave-masters' progeny, they have been encouraged to assume overseer roles over the unadulterated blacks. In due course, they were accorded special social status, assumed political leadership and monopolised what economic opportunities presented themselves to the black elites. Those who have "good hair", meaning straighter and less kinky hair were also favoured.
In Egypt, no such historical tradition existed. But the perverted logic of shadism is sadly very much at work. Darker is uncouth, unpolished, crude and common. Lighter is, accordingly, more desirable, preferred, simply superior, and to ignore this is to ignore one of the salient features of contemporary Egypt.
At some theoretical level it is understandable that black conjures up images of the ugly, pathetic and wretched in the Egyptian psyche. Egypt has become progressively whiter over the millennia. Even so, songs praising dark-skinned or black beauty ranging from the now classic "Asmar ya asmarani" [Dark one, oh dark one] sung by a coterie of now long-departed superstars including Faiza Ahmed and Abdel-Halim Hafez to the more contemporary "Habibi laun al-chocolata", [My love is the colour of chocolate], by Nubian singer Mohamed Mounir. This genre has always been a characteristic feature of Egyptian lyrical folklore.
Songs such as "Asmar malek rouhi" [The dark one owns my soul], and "Alu al-samar ahla walla al-bayad ahla" [They asked whether darkness was more comely than whiteness], another popular song by Soad Mohamed, clearly indicate a collective acknowledgment of the attractiveness of darkness among Egyptians. Indeed, darkness is generally perceived to confer upon the individual the peculiarly Egyptian concept of damm khafif loosely translated as "charming" or "humorous".
This is attested to by the popularity of references to darkness in the context of love and romance in the popular Egyptian song.
"Asmar, asmar tayeb malu, walla samaru sirr gamalu" [So what if he is dark, that is the secret of his beauty], Mohamed Qandil's "Gamil wa asmar" [Beautiful and Dark], predated the "Black is Beautiful" slogan of the 1970s civil rights movement in the United States.
Racism as an institutionalised political and economic phenomenon never existed in Egypt.
There are many Nubian and Sudanese singers based in Cairo, the cultural capital of the Arab world, but their music is a different genre altogether. A few, such as Jawaher, a popular Sudanese singer, manage to penetrate the Egyptian pop-song market with smash hits such as "Ana bahebb al-asmarani" [I love the dark one]. Yet another is "Gani al-asmar gani" [The dark one came to me] a hit song sang by Etab, a Saudi singer who is herself black.
Nevertheless, it has to be mentioned that even in the realm of the popular song where traditionally references to whiteness or lightness of skin are minimal, there are a few exceptions. "Al-oyoun al-khodr saharouni" [Her green eyes bewitched me], by Muharram Fouad is one such exception.
Sadly, this fondness of darkness in popular songs is not reflected on the street. "I've never been called a nigger to my face more times in my life," Steffan, an African American studying in Cairo, told Al-Ahram Weekly. "Some Egyptian youth may listen to a lot of rap music and may not know how offensive the word is.
But some of the young adults I've heard it from, I hold accountable. They understand how offensive the word is," he said. "It's telling that discussion of race is so minimal that people could get away with using ignorance as an excuse for using the word nigger," he added.
When black Africans are asked whether they felt they were subject to racial prejudice while in Egypt, most queried had terrible stories of personal experiences to tell. African Americans, on the whole, were less emphatic. Some said that they did not suffer from any form of racial discrimination when in Egypt.
"Lighter-skinned Egyptians have treated me just fine. Speaking for myself, I have not experienced racism from Egyptians," said a friend from Oakland, California. "When I am in Egypt, it is as a visitor.
Most Egyptians instinctively know that I am African American, but there are some who think I am Egyptian or Nubian. But, whatever they think I am, I believe they think I am rich," she explained. "So whether I am in Cairo, Luxor or Aswan, Egyptians are always kind and polite to me. In fact, a lot of them want to talk to me. The Nubians, of course, always call me their Nubian 'sistah'."
The fact that shopkeepers, hoteliers and the public at large tend to equate Americans (be they black or white) with dollars and relative wealth might account for the impression that African Americans are less likely to face racial prejudice than sub-Saharan Africans in Egypt and are more likely to be accorded a warmer reception. "One other thing, I am always treated nicely by staff whether I am in a five-star hotel or a no-star hotel," my Californian friend said.
Africans from countries south of the Sahara, including the southern Sudanese and not excepting the large African diplomatic community in Cairo, have more troubling tales to tell.
However, racial prejudice is not exclusively directed at those from sub-Saharan Africa. Upper class Egyptians, often fairer than their poorer compatriots, invariably look down on lower class Egyptians who tend to be darker in complexion. There is a subtle correlation between lower income and darker complexion. The Egyptian upper classes and elites tend to be noticeably lighter in complexion than their poorer and working class compatriots. "They labour in the sun," is sometimes the cynical explanation.
But, a more accurate explanation would be that Egypt has for thousands of years been ruled by foreign, and lighter-skinned, invaders -- Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks, the French and British. A large section of the pre-revolutionary Egyptian elite could trace their ancestry to Balkan, Caucasian and Turkish roots.
Moreover, Napoleon Bonaparte's French expedition was notorious for sowing its seeds in places like the Delta city of Mansoura whose women are reputedly "exceptionally beautiful"; in Egyptian common parlance that means fair-skinned, with light-coloured eyes and hair.
Not only are the poorer classes darker in complexion, but they tend to display more "African" cultural traits. Much of the music they enjoy has rhythmic beats that are reminiscent of those of the music of Africa south of the Sahara, with an emphasis on drums and percussion. The elite tend to favour classical Western-influenced music or Middle Eastern (Turkish and Persian) musical strains dominated by stringed instruments. While the poorer and working classes are more likely to dance spontaneously and with abandon in public, the elites tend to be more restrained. Much clapping and ululation accompanies street parties in low income areas, the elites, in sharp contrast, shun these "baladi" literally "country" traits, suggestive of the African.
"The foremost issue is the darkness of your skin and your manner of dress. The darker your skin and the more ethnic, or African, your style of dress, the more stares and harassment you will receive," explained Thomas Ford, an African American resident in Cairo.
"As a Black man, an African American, I have been fortunate enough not to have experienced anything first hand. I have been welcomed with open arms."
Again, like many of his compatriots, he sees a qualitative difference between racism in Egypt and racism in his native US. "I will say that, in general, racism in Egypt is much less of an issue than in other parts of the world. But anyone who denies its existence is fooling himself." Ford spoke of a "subtle level of racism" that is "hard to define". Racism in Egypt, he said, was more prevalent among the educated and socioeconomic and political elites than among the poor and working classes. "In some ways it is almost non-existent compared to what I have experienced in the US, but at the same time there are some pervasive issues in Egypt involving race."
Tropical Africans are not static entities. are not confined to tropical zones. This is one of the central problems with Eurocentric models- they want to present and use a static, stereotyped picture of tropical Africans as somehow huddled next to some environmental "apartheid" line- whether it be the Sahara or the equator. Some recap points to consider:
8-point recap
1-- The climatic zones of Africa are a moving target historically. The Sahara was once a lush greenbelt for example. Africans live within ALL these zones and adapt to and change with them, just like other humans elsewhere, but they STILL remain African.
2--Tropical Africans range throughout the continent. They are not conveniently confined behind some artificial climatic Jim Crow barrier as credible mainstream scholars repeatedly show.
3-- The data on the peoples of the Nile Valley clearly show ancient Egypt was fundamentally populated by tropically adapted Africans.
4-- The cultural and material data, from religion to pottery, to art, show close links between Egyptians an other tropical Africans.
5-- Limb proportions studies repeatedly show the same physically.
6--Tropical environments have numerous micro- climates, from hot deserts, to cold, cool mountains, to cold jungle, yes jungle plateaus. Tropical Africans again, are not static. They inhabit all these environments WITHIN the tropic zone. Thus narrow noses on the cold slopes, in the thin air of East African mountains are nothing special, and don't need any "race mix" or "wandering Caucasoid" migrations to explain why.
7--Tropical Africans are the most diverse people in the world, and are not bound by mere environmental factors to explain how they look. Broad nosed, tightly curly-haired peoples appear on cold mountain slopes, while narrow nosed, looser-haired peoples show up on West African savannahs and in deserts. As the cradle of modern humanity, the African genetic pool is the base. Thus native peoples in Africa without say a heavy limb proportion index are not necessarily from elsewhere outside Africa. The genetic diversity of Africa, and the environmental diversity (including tropical zone micro-climes or interzones) covers a wide range.
8-- The tropical zone is right adjacent to the sub-tropical zone, with substantial overlap. In fact the Tropic ZOne cuts through part of Southern Egypt. The notion that tropical people from the Sudan cannot walk 100 miles across the artificial climatic line of the Tropic of Cancer into the Nile Valley, and that somehow "wandering Caucasoids" from 900 miles distant are needed to explain a narrow nose, is still part of the Eurocentric mindset, and fulfills the racial agendas of that mindset.
8-- Finally tropical adaptations are deeply embedded in humans, much more so than mere skin color, nose shape or hair texture. This means that when such adaptations are found, you can be sure that the people are indeed related to those from tropic zones. This is why ancient Egyptians cluster with Black Americans on limb proportion measures- both peoples are tropically derived. Again keep in mind that a slice of SOuthern Egypt is within the tropical climate zone.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Troll, have you learned nothing? All the above people are "packed with melanin"
Wipeout,
lol
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and "immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues"
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren Department of Biology I, Biodiversity Research/Anthropology1and Department of Veterinary Anatomy II2, Ludwig-Maximilians University Munich, Germany Submitted January 8, 2002; revised May 4, 2004; accepted August 12, 2004
Abstract
During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly developed methods. Furthermore, three fixatives were tested with each of the rehydration fluids.
Meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and a placenta were used for this study. The rehydration and fixation procedures were uniform for all methods.
Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approxi- mately 1550-1080 BC).
Skin
Skin sections showed particularly good tissue preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had already separated from the dermis, the remaining epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1).
The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin. In the dermis, the hair follicles, hair, and sebaceous and sweat glands were readily apparent (Fig. 2). Blood vessels, but no red blood cells, and small peripheral nerves were identified unambiguously (Fig. 3). The subcutaneous layer showed loose connective tissue fibers attached to the dermis, and fat cell remnants were observed.
To evaluate the influence of postmortum tissue decay by micro-organisms, the samples were tested for the presence of fungi using silver staining.
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7Á/13
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:THIS IS WHY MODERN STUDIES SHOW THEM TO CLUSTER WITHIN AFRICAN TROPICAL ADAPTION!
Fail.
What study shows thin noses or wavy-straight hair having evolved in the tropical environment? This suggestion is retarded and defies evolution. The equivilant is saying Scandinavians have afros.
Why do the topics represent indigenous featues? Meanwhile whatever climates in Europe can represent Euros? Many meds came from different have different features and didnt come from the North/northwest. But its ok to call their features European cause its on the continent while its not ok to say the same for Africa. Those features are prevalent among Euros cause they are a subset of AFRICAS diversity not cause it came from there.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
Tropical Africans are not static entities. are not confined to tropical zones. This is one of the central problems with Eurocentric models- they want to present and use a static, stereotyped picture of tropical Africans as somehow huddled next to some environmental "apartheid" line- whether it be the Sahara or the equator. Some recap points to consider:
8-point recap
1-- The climatic zones of Africa are a moving target historically. The Sahara was once a lush greenbelt for example. Africans live within ALL these zones and adapt to and change with them, just like other humans elsewhere, but they STILL remain African.
2--Tropical Africans range throughout the continent. They are not conveniently confined behind some artificial climatic Jim Crow barrier as credible mainstream scholars repeatedly show.
3-- The data on the peoples of the Nile Valley clearly show ancient Egypt was fundamentally populated by tropically adapted Africans.
4-- The cultural and material data, from religion to pottery, to art, show close links between Egyptians an other tropical Africans.
5-- Limb proportions studies repeatedly show the same physically.
6--Tropical environments have numerous micro- climates, from hot deserts, to cold, cool mountains, to cold jungle, yes jungle plateaus. Tropical Africans again, are not static. They inhabit all these environments WITHIN the tropic zone. Thus narrow noses on the cold slopes, in the thin air of East African mountains are nothing special, and don't need any "race mix" or "wandering Caucasoid" migrations to explain why.
7--Tropical Africans are the most diverse people in the world, and are not bound by mere environmental factors to explain how they look. Broad nosed, tightly curly-haired peoples appear on cold mountain slopes, while narrow nosed, looser-haired peoples show up on West African savannahs and in deserts. As the cradle of modern humanity, the African genetic pool is the base. Thus native peoples in Africa without say a heavy limb proportion index are not necessarily from elsewhere outside Africa. The genetic diversity of Africa, and the environmental diversity (including tropical zone micro-climes or interzones) covers a wide range.
8-- The tropical zone is right adjacent to the sub-tropical zone, with substantial overlap. In fact the Tropic ZOne cuts through part of Southern Egypt. The notion that tropical people from the Sudan cannot walk 100 miles across the artificial climatic line of the Tropic of Cancer into the Nile Valley, and that somehow "wandering Caucasoids" from 900 miles distant are needed to explain a narrow nose, is still part of the Eurocentric mindset, and fulfills the racial agendas of that mindset.
8-- Finally tropical adaptations are deeply embedded in humans, much more so than mere skin color, nose shape or hair texture. This means that when such adaptations are found, you can be sure that the people are indeed related to those from tropic zones. This is why ancient Egyptians cluster with Black Americans on limb proportion measures- both peoples are tropically derived. Again keep in mind that a slice of SOuthern Egypt is within the tropical climate zone.
^^The above model Brooke Bailey is not "really" black.. lol
^^Chock full of basal epithelial cells packed with melanin... Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [QB] Tropical Africans are not static entities. are not confined to tropical zones.
name an African population, by city, not from a tropical zone and why you would call them "Tropical" if they are not from the tropics? Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^^See a map of Africa, identify the tropical zone and answer your own question.
^Basal melanin packing ...
"Intralimb (crural and brachial) indices are significantly higher in ancient Egyptians than in American Whites (except crural index among females), i.e., Egyptians have relatively longer distal segments (Table 4). Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks... Many of those who have studied ancient Egyptians have commented on their characteristically ‘‘tropical’’ or ‘‘African’’ body plan.. Egyptians also fall within the range of modern African populations (Ruff and Walker, 1993).. brachial indices are definitely more ‘‘African’’).. In terms of femoral and tibial length to total skeletal height proportions, we found that ancient Egyptians .. still closer to Blacks than to Whites."
--Raxter and Ruff (2008) Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Zaharan in the other thread was exposed when he was trying to pass off a girl 1/4 NORWEGIAN ('white') as ''black'', and now he's doing exactly the same...
quote:The above model Brooke Bailey is not "really" black.. lol
Brooke Baily:
Name Brooke Bailey Age 22 Height 5′ 8″ Weight 145 lbs Measurements 37-27-40 Eye Color Brown Hair Color Brown Ethnicity Indian/Black/French
Zaharan NEVER can post a true 'Black' female, his taste in females is either mixed or 'white'. So much for being a ''black conservative'', the guy is a self-hating black who hates his own women.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Those models certainly have more African ancestry than Egyptians elites, whether modern or ancient, have/had ''Nordid'' ancestry.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [qb] Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?
My essay discusses several known examples.
You cannot infer from a phucking picture whether a golden haired person has any association with Europeans, let alone, a ''Nordid'', you phucking buffoon. Even if its really blond hair, Europeans aren't the only Eurasians with blond hair.
So, if we're dealing with a Nordid elite, where are the Nordid males?
Hetepheres' spouse:
Hetepheres' father:
Where are the Nordid males in this family?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [QB] Tropical Africans are not static entities. are not confined to tropical zones.
name an African population, by city, not from a tropical zone and why you would call them "Tropical" if they are not from the tropics?
Migration patterns from further South, Sahara/ Sahel. !
Naqada I, II, III is Predynastic Egyptian history.
Yurco's statement:
"...a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times"[...]
"Analysis of Predinastic skeletal material showed tropical African elements in the population of the earliest populations of the earliest Badarian culture" [...]
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Those models certainly have more African ancestry than Egyptians elites, whether modern or ancient, have/had ''Nordid'' ancestry.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [qb] Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?
My essay discusses several known examples.
You cannot infer from a phucking picture whether a golden haired person has any association with Europeans, let alone, a ''Nordid'', you phucking buffoon. Even if its really blond hair, Europeans aren't the only Eurasians with blond hair.
So, if we're dealing with a Nordid elite, where are the Nordid males?
Hetepheres' spouse:
Hetepheres' father:
Where are the Nordid males in this family?
I've already explained in detail in my essay, drawing from Bates (1914) and Coon (1939). The Nordid element was introduced though admixture with the Libyans of the western delta.
''The blondism of Hetepheres II apparently belonged to the Delta and to the connections outside to east or west, rather than to Egypt proper'' (Coon, 1939)
quote:Dr. Rosalie David describes the ancient Libyans as a ''people with distinctive red or blonde hair and blue eyes'' (The Making of the Past, 1975, pp. 13-14).
Flinders Petrie in his Religion and Conscience in Ancient Egypt (1898) has noted: ''That Set belongs to the Libyans or Westerns is probable, because he is considered to have red hair and a white skin'' (p. 32).
In ancient Greek literature the Libyans are also described as red haired or blonde. The Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax (4th century BC) for example notes of xanthos Libyes, ''fair Libyans'' (Geographi Graeci Minores, Vol. i, p. 88, col. B) and Callimachus in his hymns wrote of ''yellow-haired Libyan women'' (Hymn II to Apollo, 85). The Roman poet Lucan (61 AD) also wrote of Libyans with reddish hair (Pharsalia, x. 155).
In ancient sources the Libyans are also called Tamahu, Tjehenu or Temehu (tmfiw). The root of this word is ''Tam'', created, and ''Hu'', white, the Tamahu are thus the ''created white people'' (Massey, 1881, vol. 1, p. 27).
quote:the Nordid element was introduced though admixture with the Libyans of the western delta.
What did I just tell your incredibly dumb ass? What does blond hair necessarily have to do with Europeans, let alone ''Nordids''. How the phuck do Nordids come into the picture, let alone an entire ''Nordid'' elite?
Start explaining your dumb nonsensical self, and make it quick, will ya?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262
As Brothwell and Spearman (‘63) point out, reddish-brown ancient hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. This color was seen in a large proportion of the Semna sample, and also noted by Titlbachova and Titlbach (‘77) on Egyptian material, where it also may have resulted from the mummification process. However, the large number of blond hairs that are not associated with the cuticular damage that bleaching produces, probably points to a significantly lighter-haired population than is now present in the Nubian region. Brothwell and Spearman (’63) noted genuinely blond ancient Egyptian samples using reflectance spectrophotometry. Blondism, especially in young children, is common in many darkhaired populations (e.g., Australian, Melanesian), and is still found in some Nubian villages (J. Zabkar, personal communication).
Only one sample (M197) showed cuticular damage and irregularities definitely consistent with bleaching, although bleaching could not be ruled out in some of the blond samples.
In the early 20th century much was made over the ancestry of Hetepheres II. A relief from the tomb of her daughter, Meresankh III, depicts the queen with blonde hair.
However, closer inspection reveals that she was not a natural blonde, but rather the owner of a unique and, we can speculate, much coveted blonde wig.
Limestone statue of Hetep-Heres II (mother) and Meres-Ankh III (daughter) from their tomb G 7530-7540 at Giza, dating to the 4th Dynasty. Paired statues of mother and daughters are common (but less so that husband and wife pairs). Queen Hetep-Heres was a daughter of King Khufu and was married to Prince Kawab. Meres-Ankh is known to have died before her mother and was married to King Khafra (builder of the second great pyramid at Giza) and the statue was a gift from her mother.
Khufu,
Kawab,
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote: Little change in body shape was found through time, suggesting that all body segments were varying in size in response to environmental and social conditions. The change found in body plan is suggested to be the result of the later groups having a more tropical (Nilotic) form than the preceding populations. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2003.
Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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