posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Lioness

Who or what is a "semite" in your book?

---

I asked you first

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Failure to disprove leaves open many possibilities
or many truths

First you must eliminate any chance that it "might" be true..

Maybe you can answer this... is every European Jew Semetic?

Is Ivanka Trump Semetic?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
@lioness

Okay... fine.. now you have the burden of proof that European Jews are all Semitic

---

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Failure to disprove leaves open many possibilities
or many truths


First you must eliminate any chance that it "might" be true..

---

Burden of Proof

The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the obligation on a party in a dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position.
When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially . This is also stated in Hitchens's razor, which declares that "what may be asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence."

Shifting the burden of proof

One way in which one would attempt to shift the burden of proof is by committing a logical fallacy known as the
Argument from Ignorance. It occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proven true.


Argument from Ignorance.

Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes the possibility that there may have been an insufficient investigation to prove that the proposition is either true or false.It also does not allow for the possibility that the answer is unknowable, only knowable in the future, or neither completely true nor completely false. In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:


Ish Gebor, Nick Cannon thinks that the Hebrews were black but here he is not talking about phenotype.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

There are dark skinned people in many places in the world.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

But here and in the video Nick Cannon is saying that African Americans (or at least he and Professor Griff) are Semitic and Hebrews

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quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Is that true in your opinion?

---

Yes, it's true with the sources I have back up. You should know this as well. Since you are known on the forum for posting about "Back Migrations". Why is this "Hebrew Back Migration" such a problem to you?

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

If you were writing a text book on African Americans. Would it be correct to say

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

"African Americans are a Semitic people with Hebrew speaking ancestors"

Is this correct?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

I can't debate people you don't even take a position to debate on.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

But if someone steps up to the plate with the balls to actually take a position and says

"yes I do think African Americans are a Semitic people with Hebrew speaking ancestors"

Then a debate could actually take place

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quote:

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"להיכא אגלי להו מר זוטרא אמר לאפריקי ורבי חנינא אמר להרי סלוג אבל ישראל ספרו בגנותה של ארץ ישראל כי מטו שוש אמרי שויא כי ארעין כי מטו עלמין אמרו כעלמין כי מטו שוש תרי אמרי על חד תרין

The Gemara asks: To where did Sennacherib exile the ten tribes? Mar Zutra says: He exiled them to Afrikei, and Rabbi Ḥanina says: To the Selug Mountains. The Gemara adds: But those exiled from the kingdom of Israel spoke in disparagement of Eretz Yisrael and extolled the land of their exile. When they arrived at one place, they called it Shosh, as they said: It is equal [shaveh] to our land. When they arrived at another place, they called it Almin, as they said: It is like our world [almin], as Eretz Yisrael is also called beit olamim. When they arrived at a third place they called it Shosh the second [terei], as they said: For one measure of good in Eretz Yisrael, there are two [terein] here."

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quote:

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Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin, who in the time of king Cepheus were driven by fear and hatred of their neighbors to seek a new dwelling-place. Others describe them as an Assyrian horde who, not having sufficient territory, took possession of part of Egypt, and founded cities of their own in what is called the Hebrew country, lying on the borders of Syria.

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quote:

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וּבְנֵ֖י חָ֑ם כּ֥וּשׁ וּמִצְרַ֖יִם וּפ֥וּט וּכְנָֽעַן׃

The descendants of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.


ר' תחנא אומ' אף ישראל נקראו כושים, שנ' הלא כבני כושיים אתם לי, וכי כושים היו, אלא מה כושי זה גופו משונה מכל הבריות כך הם ישראל משונים בדרכיהם ובמעשיהם הטובים מכל אומות העולם, לפיכך נקראו כושים. וכתוב אחר אומ' ויאמר עבד המלך הכושי. וכי עבד כושי היה והלא ברוך בן נריה היה, אלא מה כושי זה גופו משונה מן הבריות כך ברוך בן נריה משונה בדרכיו ובמעשיו הטובים, לפיכך נקרא כושי.

Rabbi Tachanah said: The Israelites also are called Cushites, as it is said, "Are ye not as the children of the Cushites unto me, O children of Israel?" (Amos 9:7). Just as the body of this Cushite is different from all creatures, so do the Israelites differ from all the nations of the world in their ways and by their good deeds; therefore are they called Cushites. One Scripture saith, "And Ebedmelech, the Cushite, said" (Jer. 38:12). Was it Ebed? Was he not Baruch, son of Neriah? But just as this Cushite is different in his body from all other people, so was Baruch, son of Neriah…

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quote:

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“Neither Jewish law, lore nor history addresses race in any way that can be construed as problematic. In fact, the ancestor of the Jewish people, Shem son of Noah, is described by the midrash as having been black (Pirkei D’Rebbe Eliezer, beginning of Chapter 24). The most fundamental teachings of Judaism clearly dismiss racism altogether, such as “You shall love the stranger like yourself” (Leviticus 19:34), or the reminder in Genesis that all of us—regardless of race, color or belief system—were born of the same mom and dad: Adam and Eve. “Why did God create swarms of bees, prides of lions, herds of deer, schools of fish, and flocks of birds, and only one human couple? So that no one can say to another ‘My ancestry is superior to yours’” (Mishnah, Sanhedrin 4:5).”

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quote:

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ברך נח ובניו שנא' ויברך אותם אלהים במתנותיה והנחילם את כל הארץ. ברך לשם ולבניו שחורים ונאים והנחילם את כל ארץ נושבת ברך לחם ובניו שחורים כעורב והנחילם חוף הים ברך ליפת ובניו כלם לבני' ויפי' והנחילם מדבר ושדות אלה הנחלות שהנחילם.

NIMROD AND THE TOWER OF BABEL

Noah brought his sons and his grandsons, and he blessed them with their (several) settlements, and he gave them as an inheritance all the earth. He especially blessed Shem and his sons, (making them) dark but comely, and he gave them the habitable earth. He blessed Ham and his sons, (making them) dark || like the raven, and he gave them as an inheritance the coast of the sea. He blessed Japheth and his sons, (making) them entirely white, and he gave them for an inheritance the desert and its fields; these (are the inheritances with) which he endowed them.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:

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Khalid Muhammad was born with the name Harold Moore Jr. and Minister Farrakhan was born Louis Eugene Walcott.
Minister Farrakhan's father may have been a Portuguese Jew. So he might actually be of part
Hebrew speaking ancestry not just Semitic or Afroasiatic.
But most African Americans don't have Portuguese ancestry so if they are Hebrews they would have to be Hebrews form elsewhere

Nevertheless these European names were not part of Minister Farrakhan's or Khalid Muhammad's African roots since the slave masters took away our languages and changed the names

I wonder if Khalid Muhammad's ancestors were Muslim. That might be unknown.

Anyway the Nation of Islam uses Semitic Arabic names but not Semitic Hebrew names
They identify as Muslims and they say the best part of the Earth is Mecca



Anyway looking the Transatlantic slave trade. Some of the Africans would have had indigenous African names, some Islamic

But where are the Hebrew speaking Africans that would have been present at the time of the slave trade?

There were some Fula and other Muslims coming in from Africa to America but where is there any account of African Hebrews coming in from Africa to America?

There may have been some Ethiopian Jews or North African Jews, perhaps Lemba but does it really make sense to call African Americans the true Hebrews? None of these regions are much associated with the slaves brought to America

and if assuming the Hebrews were black then all Africans were Hebrew?

That is your logic, that the first Hebrews in Africa were black and that means all Africans and Africans Americans are Hebrews

That's what Nick Cannon said .
He said he's a Hebrew and suggest that African Americans are Hebrews

So do you agree that African Americas are Hebrews?

What about a broader question
- Are most African Americans Semites?

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Would it be correct to say

"African Americans are a Semitic people of Hebrew speaking ancestors who came from Africa"

Is this correct?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

yes

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Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Khalid Muhammad was born with the name Harold Moore Jr. and Minister Farrakhan was born Louis Eugene Walcott.
Minister Farrakhan's father may have been a Portuguese Jew. So he might actually be of part
Hebrew speaking ancestry not just Semitic or Afroasiatic.
But most African Americans don't have Portuguese ancestry so if they are Hebrews they would have to be Hebrews form elsewhere

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Nevertheless these European names were not part of Ministr Frrakhan's or Khalid Muhammad's African roots since the slave masters took away our languages and changed the names

I wonder if Khalid Muhammad's ancestors were Muslim. That might be unknown.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Anyway the Nation of Islam uses Semitic Arabic names but not Semitic Hebrew names
They identify as Muslims and they say the best part of the Earth is Mecca



Anyway looking the Transatlantic slave trade. Some of the Africans would have had indigenous African names, some Islamic

---

You don't know a damn thing about Arabic and Hebrew, or the NOI philosophy. Elijah?

And that map shows trace regions, not migration paths.

Try to rationalize this away.

Guus, Jilbe, Jimi, Jonkor, Ju, Kabali, Koenoem, Kofa, Kubi, Kupto, Lagwan, Langas, Luri, Lushi, Mabire, Maha, Mangas, Maslam, Mbara, Midah, Mser, Ngamo, Nggwahyi, Ngwaba, Pa’a, Polci, Sha, Shua, Siri, Sukur, Tahaggart, Tala, Tetserret, Tule, Tulai, Oubi, Zaar, Zari, Zeem, Zizilivakan, Zanaga, Zialo, Zul, Zumaya.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

But where are the Hebrew speaking Africans that would have been present at the time of the slave trade?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

There were some Fula and other Muslims coming in from Africa to America but where is there any account of African Hebrews coming in from Africa to America?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

There may have been some Ethiopian Jews or North African Jews, perhaps Lemba but does it really make sense to call African Americans the true Hebrews? None of these regions are much associated with the slaves brought to America and if assuming the Hebrews were black then all Africans were Hebrew?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

That is your logic, that the first Hebrews in Africa were black and that means all Africans and Africans Americans are Hebrews

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

That's what Nick Cannon said .
He said he's a Hebrew and suggest that African Americans are Hebrews

So do you agree that African Americas are Hebrews?

What about a broader question
- Are most African Americans Semites?

---

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
@lioness

I agree and co sign everything Ish Geber said.
Now you can answer are European jews all semetic?
Is Ivanka Trump semetic?

---

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
@lioness

I agree and co sign everything Ish Geber said.
Now you can answer are European jews all semetic?
Is Ivanka Trump semetic?

---

I told you, you are not going to get any answer anytime soon, because you deal with a child who stole from a cookie jar, who got caught and now is in denial. (No pun intended).

All you will get is avoidance, derails and troll tactics with he same repetitive questions that already have been answered.

This person is in such a mindf*ck right now, that the entire structure in sentence is becoming a mess.

Even when primary sources show us that Hebrews moved into Africa, this person was like buuuut…. This too was stomped out quickly with other primary sources.

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:


Even when primary sources show us that Hebrews moved into Africa, the troll was like buuuut…. This too was stomped out quickly with other primary sources.

---

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:


Even when primary sources show us that Hebrews moved into Africa, the troll was like buuuut…. This too was stomped out quickly with other primary sources.

---

So you think that if Hebrews moved into Africa Africans and African Americans are the "true" Hebrews

---

I already have answered this question. In fact I have answered it a few times. And yes the prophecies in the Torah are in line with this history. You can always change the Torah to make it fit your narrative if you don't like it.

Btw, your question is a contraction all by itself.

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
the prophecies in the Torah are in line with this history. You can always change the Torah to make it fit your narrative if you don't like it.

---

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
the prophecies in the Torah are in line with this history. You can always change the Torah to make it fit your narrative if you don't like it.

---

do you know what prophecy is ?

---

Yes, I do. But do you?

Just go back to your favorite hobby, which is posting about Back Migrations into Africa.

But first answer Yatunde Lisa. At least try to have that basic human decency.

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
And yes the prophecies in the Torah are in line with this history. You can always change the Torah to make it fit your narrative if you don't like it.

---

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
^^^

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
@lioness

I agree and co sign everything Ish Geber said.
Now you can answer are European jews all semetic?
Is Ivanka Trump semetic?

---

I told you, you are not going to get any answer anytime soon, because you deal with a child who stole from a cookie jar, who got caught and now is in denial. (No pun intended).

All you will get is avoidance, derails and troll tactics with he same repetitive questions that already have been answered.

This person is in such a mindf*ck right now, that the entire structure in sentence is becoming a mess.

Even when primary sources show us that Hebrews moved into Africa, this person was like buuuut…. This too was stomped out quickly with other primary sources.

---

I see that...


The Fulani peoples DNA. Genetically, the seem to have a little Caucasian in them, about 8% of their maternal lineages are caucasian, a mix of Berber and Arabic lineages, J1b, U5, H, and V. A much higher percentage of their Y chromosomes are caucasian in origin though, some Semitic, 18% K2 (now T) and some R1b. To about 14% Caucasian DNA in total. This does support their story of origin as being Semitic, descended from Jacob!

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/the-fulani-people-of-the-sahel/



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agj5cPM_fBk


Haplogroup L2a (mtDNA) has notable frequencies of 22% among the

Hebrew Affiliated Fulani of Nile Valley to Niger to The Gambia

https://billygambelaafroasiaticanthropology.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/dna-diversity-in-egypt-amongst-mtdna-haplogroup-l/

--------------------
It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions

Posts: 2702 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
And yes the prophecies in the Torah are in line with this history. You can always change the Torah to make it fit your narrative if you don't like it.

---

do you think any verses in the bible are prophesies about America or Europe?

---

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
^^^

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
@lioness

I agree and co sign everything Ish Geber said.
Now you can answer are European jews all semetic?
Is Ivanka Trump semetic?

---

I told you, you are not going to get any answer anytime soon, because you deal with a child who stole from a cookie jar, who got caught and now is in denial. (No pun intended).

All you will get is avoidance, derails and troll tactics with he same repetitive questions that already have been answered.

This person is in such a mindf*ck right now, that the entire structure in sentence is becoming a mess.

Even when primary sources show us that Hebrews moved into Africa, this person was like buuuut…. This too was stomped out quickly with other primary sources.

---

I see that...


The Fulani peoples DNA. Genetically, the seem to have a little Caucasian in them, about 8% of their maternal lineages are caucasian, a mix of Berber and Arabic lineages, J1b, U5, H, and V. A much higher percentage of their Y chromosomes are caucasian in origin though, some Semitic, 18% K2 (now T) and some R1b. To about 14% Caucasian DNA in total. This does support their story of origin as being Semitic, descended from Jacob!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agj5cPM_fBk

---

quote:

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The most extensive pan-African haplotype (16189 16192 16223 16278 16294 16309 16390) is in the L2a1 haplogroup. This sequence is observed in West Africa among the Niger-Congo family including the Malinke, Wolof, and others; in North Africa among the Afro-Asiatic family including the Hausa and others; in Central Africa among the Niger-Congo family including the Bamileke and others; in South Africa among the Khoisan family including the Khwe and the Niger-Congo family Bantu speakers; and in East Africa among the Niger-Congo family Kikuyu.

Closely related variants are observed among the Afro-Asiatic family including the Tuareg in North and West Africa and among the East African Nilo-Saharan family Dinka. Thus, identical mitochondrial haplotypes are often shared among ethnic groups with considerable language diversity.

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quote:

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This study showed that lineage expansions and population expansions in 3 continents began before Neolithic Time. In Africa, 11 lineages (L0a1a, L1b1a3, L1b1a, L2a1a, L2a1c, L2a1, L3b1a, L3e1, L3e2a, L3e2b and L3d1–5) out of 15 star lineages shared by different populations were estimated to coalesce above 10 kya, and African samples also showed a 5-fold growth ~15−11 kya, while agriculture in Africa emerged ~7 kya.

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quote:

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Jericho, Arabic Arīḥā, town located in the West Bank. Jericho is one of the earliest continuous settlements in the world, dating perhaps from about 9000 BCE. Archaeological excavations have demonstrated Jericho’s lengthy history.

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quote:

---

“African and Middle Eastern populations shared the greatest number of alleles absent from all other populations (fig. S6B).

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quote:

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However, there is a general similarity of the remaining sub-Saharan African populations, particularly those from the Sahel band and the Chad Basin (with the exception of the Fulani nomads). Subsequently, there is a transitional zone formed by the populations from Ethiopia and the Nile Valley but also by some Yemeni groups, particularly the ones from the eastern parts of the country (Hadramawt).

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quote:

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Haplogroup L2a1 was found in two specimens from the Southern Levant Pre-Pottery Neolithic B site at Tell Halula, Syria, dating from the period between ca. 9600 and ca. 8000 BP or 7500-6000 BCE.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
And yes the prophecies in the Torah are in line with this history. You can always change the Torah to make it fit your narrative if you don't like it.

---

do you think any verses in the bible are prophesies about America or Europe?

---

According to the theologians, yes. And it so happens to be that these prophecies are in line with the historical events of the Middle Passage. If you don't like it I suggest you remove them, or alter them to make them fit your narrative.

---

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Still waiting for than answer about European Jews.

Are the all semetic?
Are they the true Hebrews?
Are they the Chosen people?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness

Are African Americans are a Semitic people with Hebrew speaking ancestors?

---

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:
And yes the prophecies in the Torah are in line with this history. You can always change the Torah to make it fit your narrative if you don't like it.

---

do you think any verses in the bible are prophesies about America or Europe?

---

According to the theologians, yes. And it so happens to be that these prophecies are in line with the historical events of the Middle Passage. If you don't like it I suggest you remove them, or alter them to make them fit your narrative.

---

So are you saying that the prophesies are not real, they are just fictional prophesies that each person applies metaphorically to their own lives ?

---

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Still waiting for than answer about European Jews.

Are the all semetic?
Are they the true Hebrews?
Are they the Chosen people?

---

I prophesied that it was going to take hours. It's very typical behavior. As I said, now this individual is demanding you to answer and if not this individual is not going to answer you, but even when you answer, you still will get no answer. We all have been through this.

Instead what you've gotten was distractions and derails about me. This is typical for this person to hide behind others posts. The same was done with Doug who isn't even in this thread. And 99% of the time Doug at this individual are in disagreement.

I have elaborately answered that person with primary sources and I have answered short with yes, which was the first "demand" by this "moderator". When I did I was vilified. I was asked to elaborate and when I did the excuse became: "the post are too long".

Just keep in mind that this is a person who's a "moderator". A person who is supposed to intermediate on a forum. A person who is full of lies and contradictions. That has been the general experience and that is the consensus.

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:

If the prophesies aline with the actual historical recorded happenings it means they are real, not metaphorical nor fictional as you falsy claim. Unless you are telling us that the history of the Middle Passage is not real, you'd have a point. That is logic 101.

I have no idea how you came up with these bizarre illogical reasonings and conclusions?

I challenge you to go in to any religious institute and tell the religious followers that what they belief is not real, but merely a metaphorical fiction. don't throw the baby away with the bathwater. (no pun intended).

Now that this has been answered, again. Answer Yatunde Lisa's question on Ivanka Trump. Don't cower away. Face the questions, like we answer your questions. [/QB]

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Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Geber:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
[qb] Still waiting for than answer about European Jews.

Are the all semetic?
Are they the true Hebrews?
Are they the Chosen people?

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I prophesied that it was going to take hours. It's very typical behavior. As I said, now this individual is demanding you to answer and if not this individual is not going to answer you, but even when you answer, you still will get no answer. We all have been through this.



That's ok... I will answer it myself...

Maternal DNA

Richards and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, which is contained in the cytoplasm of the egg and passed down only from the mother, from more than 3,500 people throughout the Near East, the Caucusus and Europe, including Ashkenazi Jews.

The team found that four founders were responsible for 40 percent of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, and that all of these founders originated in Europe. The majority of the remaining people could be traced to other European lineages.

All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, with only a few lineages originating in the Near East.

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380291/


Sand's argument begins with 19th century European concepts of nation- and people-hood. He maintains that Jewish historians such as Graetz were deeply influenced by Germanic notions of the "Volk" on which the idea of the modern state is built. This nationalism was sharpened by the discourse of race and eugenics current then and later in Europe, with such disastrous results for Jewry. Sand traces a line from Graetz to the Zionist historians who, he argues, employ such bioethnic concepts to invent an imaginary entity, a racially continuous Jewish people who were exiled from their land, and therefore deserve to return to it 2,000 years later. Such continuity, argues Sand, is a fiction and the Jewish people are therefore an "invention".

"Instead, Jewish continuity is premised on religious factors, including observance of the Torah, the study of the Talmud, the creation of communities, the life of the synagogue and the bonds of the liturgy. These are what form the vital links between generations of Jews"


The Invention of the Jewish People

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Invention_of_the_Jewish_People/pgsP0DFkmp0C?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

--------------------
It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions

Posts: 2702 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Geber:

If the prophesies aline with the actual historical recorded happenings it means they are real, not metaphorical nor fictional as you falsy claim. Unless you are telling us that the history of the Middle Passage is not real, you'd have a point. That is logic 101.

I have no idea how you came up with these bizarre illogical reasonings and conclusions?

I challenge you to go in to any religious institute and tell the religious followers that what they belief is not real, but merely a metaphorical fiction. don't throw the baby away with the bathwater. (no pun intended).

Now that this has been answered, again. Answer Yatunde Lisa's question on Ivanka Trump. Don't cower away. Face the questions, like we answer your questions.

---

Let Yatunde Lisa handle her own business

I'm looking at your quote here, you misrepresent what I said and you also have a lot of basic logical fallacies.
You might have a chance if you studied a book on logic and contemporary rhetoric but you're hopeless until then

---

If I should let Yatunde Lisa handle her own business, how come you've conflated my name in multiple posts, while talking to Yatunde Lisa?

Explain that one?

Be a man about it and answer Yatunde Lisa. Don't run from the question asked by Yatunde Lisa, don't cower away. We are almost 24 hours later and you still haven't answered Yatunde Lisa. What you are doing is not only rude, but also sad. Especially for someone who's a "moderator".

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Still waiting for than answer about European Jews.

Are the all semetic?
Are they the true Hebrews?
Are they the Chosen people?

---

I prophesied that it was going to take hours. It's very typical behavior. As I said, now this individual is demanding you to answer and if not this individual is not going to answer you, but even when you answer, you still will get no answer. We all have been through this.

---

That's ok... I will answer it myself...

Maternal DNA

Richards and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, which is contained in the cytoplasm of the egg and passed down only from the mother, from more than 3,500 people throughout the Near East, the Caucusus and Europe, including Ashkenazi Jews.

The team found that four founders were responsible for 40 percent of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, and that all of these founders originated in Europe. The majority of the remaining people could be traced to other European lineages.

All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, with only a few lineages originating in the Near East.

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380291/


Sand's argument begins with 19th century European concepts of nation- and people-hood. He maintains that Jewish historians such as Graetz were deeply influenced by Germanic notions of the "Volk" on which the idea of the modern state is built. This nationalism was sharpened by the discourse of race and eugenics current then and later in Europe, with such disastrous results for Jewry. Sand traces a line from Graetz to the Zionist historians who, he argues, employ such bioethnic concepts to invent an imaginary entity, a racially continuous Jewish people who were exiled from their land, and therefore deserve to return to it 2,000 years later. Such continuity, argues Sand, is a fiction and the Jewish people are therefore an "invention".

"Instead, Jewish continuity is premised on religious factors, including observance of the Torah, the study of the Talmud, the creation of communities, the life of the synagogue and the bonds of the liturgy. These are what form the vital links between generations of Jews"


The Invention of the Jewish People

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Invention_of_the_Jewish_People/pgsP0DFkmp0C?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
^^^^ European Jews did not speak Hebrew, the language was revived in the 19th Century as a push for Zionism...

El Dad the Danite

Moreover, Eldad was known to the Gaon through Isaac ben Mar and R. Simḥah, with whom the Danite associated while he was in Babylonia. Hisdai ibn Shaprut cites Eldad in his letter to the king of the Khazars, and Eldad's halakhot were used by both Rabbinites and Karaites as weapons in defense of their respective creeds. Talmudic authorities like Rashi, Abraham ben David, and Abraham ben Maimon quote Eldad as an unquestioned authority; and lexicographers and grammarians interpret some Hebrew words according to the meaning given them in Eldad's phraseology

Hebrew IVRI Ewe EƲƐ The Black Man 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9stqNVPEInA

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quote:

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"The grammatical system of Yiddish, however, looks far more Germanic than Slavic: Yiddish has definite and indefinite articles, which express gender and case; its case system is Germanic too (none of the peculiarities of Slavic case system, like the Genitive of Negation, are present in Yiddish); and its word order is subject to rules like Verb-Second, not information structure."

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quote:

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"We also used a combination of well-established Admixture, GPS, and reAdmix methods using a separate database to examine the geographic origins of individuals while accounting for admixture (see Analysis using admixture vectors) [25, 26]. This analysis was conducted using present-day data and data from Bronze-age populations from the first century BC to control for any geographical changes that may have occurred in the past three thousand years. We found that these different approaches produced a consistent assessment of Khazar provenance."
[…]
The genetic homogeneity of the worldwide Jewish population is also problematic [11, 12]. Consequently, given the paucity of historical records, and the complexity of migration patterns by Jews and the nomadic steppe tribes, this hypothesis is only testable by examining evidence of genetic relatedness between Ashkenazim and the Khazars using genomic analysis of archaeological remains."

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quote:

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“The central Eurasian Silk Roads were controlled by Iranian polities, which provided opportunities for Iranian-speaking Jews, who constituted the overwhelming bulk of the world's Jews from the time of Christ to the Eleventh century (Baron, 1952). It should not come as a surprise to find that Yiddish (and other Old Jewish languages) contains components and rules from a large variety of languages, all of them spoken on the Silk Roads (Khordadhbeh, 1889; Wexler, 2011, 2012, 2017).

In addition to language contacts, the Silk Roads also provided the motivation for widespread conversion to Judaism by populations eager to participate in the extremely lucrative trade, which had become a Jewish quasi-monopoly along the trade routes (Rabinowitz, 1945, 1948; Baron, 1957). These conversions are discussed in Jewish literature between the Sixth and Eleventh centuries, both in Europe and Iraq (Sand, 2009; Kraemer, 2010).”

"Remarkably, AJs exhibit a dominant Iranian (88%˜) and residual Levantine (3%˜) ancestries, as opposed to Bedouins (14%˜ and 68%˜, respectively) and Palestinians (18%˜ and 58%˜, respectively)

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quote:

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"Before discussing the historical implications of our results, we point out two general lessons that emerge from the analysis. The first is that AJ genetics defies simple demographic theories. Hypotheses such as a wholly Khazar, Turkish, or Middle-Eastern origin have been disqualified [4–7, 17, 55], but even a model of a single Middle-Eastern and European admixture event cannot account for all of our observations. The actual admixture history might have been highly complex, including multiple geographic sources and admixture events. Moreover, due to the genetic similarity and complex history of the European populations involved (particularly in Southern Europe [51]), the multiple paths of AJ migration across Europe [10], and the strong genetic drift experienced by AJ in the late Middle Ages [9, 16], there seems to be a limit on the resolution to which the AJ admixture history can be reconstructed."

Our model of the AJ admixture history is presented in Fig 7. Under our model, admixture in Europe first happened in Southern Europe, and was followed by a founder event and a minor admixture event (likely) in Eastern Europe. Admixture in Southern Europe possibly occurred in Italy, given the continued presence of Jews there and the proposed Italian source of the early Rhineland Ashkenazi communities [3]. What is perhaps surprising is the timing of the Southern European admixture to ≈24–49 generations ago, since Jews are known to have resided in Italy already since antiquity. This result would imply no gene flow between Jews and local Italian populations almost until the turn of the millennium, either due to endogamy, or because the group that eventually gave rise to contemporary Ashkenazi Jews did not reside in Southern Europe until that time. More detailed and/or alternative interpretations are left for future studies."

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quote:

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“Previously, using genome-wide SNP and copy number variation data, we demonstrated that Sephardic (Greek and Turkish), Ashkenazi (Eastern European), and Mizrahi (Iranian, Iraqi, and Syrian) Jews with origins in Europe and the Middle East were more related to each other than to their non-Jewish contemporary neighbors (16).“
[…]
“The Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews were on distinctive branches with the Yemenite Jews on a branch between Palestinians and Bedouins.“
[…]
"Pairwise FST analysis indicated that each of the North African Jewish populations was distinct and, by bootstrap analysis, sta- tistically different from all of the others"
[…]
"This increase in European ancestry and corresponding decrease in Maghrebi ancestry may be interpreted in several ways: (i) This increase may be due to the inherently higher European ancestry of Jewish segments planted into the genomes of non-Jewish populations."
[…]
“Isolation began for Jews when Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and made it the state religion of the Roman Empire. In the process, Jews were deprived of their right to convert pagans or accept proselytes.”

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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As they estimate the parent clade K1a1b1 to be over 10K years old, in the interim ~6,000 years between the appearance of K1a1b1 and the appearance of K1a1b1a, the maternal lineage could have migrated to and from the Levant on numerous occasions (in a manner similar to the movement pattern of H7c1). As noted earlier, prior to the Arab conquest in the 7th century CE the Western and Eastern sides of the Mediterranean basin were as well, if not better, connected to each other than the Western Med-iterranean was to parts of Northwestern Europe. When considering the age of the haplogroup, its presence (however limited) among Sephardic Jews and its apparent absence in non-Jewish populations (Costa et al., 2013; Behar et al., 2006) all seem to indicate that a Levantine origin is far more likely for K1a1b1a than a European one, regardless of where K1a1b1 first originated.
[…]
It is plausible that among the Judeans who moved to the region around the Black Sea there were women belonging to the JudeanEuropean community in Greece, Italy, or Anatolia who were the source of the major and minor mtDNA lineages in East European Ashkenazim. Later, during the 8th and 10th centuries, Jewish women with their families from Byzantium (Balkans, Italy, and Greece) arrived in Khazaria, who may have been carriers of K1a1b1a (and N1b2) as well.

Founder clades K2a2 and K1a9 also show a difference in distribution between West and East European Ashkenazim. K1a9 originated in Western Europe.

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quote:

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Ötzi, a mummy who was found September 1991 in the Ötztal Alps, is subclade K1ö for Ötzi. Ötzi has mtDNA marker 10978 in common with the Ashkenazi population and others who fall under the K1a1b1a subclade.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Geber:

quote:

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Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
^^^^ European Jews did not speak Hebrew, the language was revived in the 19th Century as a push for Zionism...

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What do you mean by "European Jews did not speak Hebrew, the language was revived in the 19th Century as a push for Zionism… "?

Are you referring at Yiddish? Yiddish exists from the 10th A.D. onwards.


The Khazar theory is been rebuked,

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Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Geber:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
[qb] ^^^^ European Jews did not speak Hebrew, the language was revived in the 19th Century as a push for Zionism...

El Dad the Danite

Moreover, Eldad was known to the Gaon through Isaac ben Mar and R. Simḥah, with whom the Danite associated while he was in Babylonia. Hisdai ibn Shaprut cites Eldad in his letter to the king of the Khazars, and Eldad's halakhot were used by both Rabbinites and Karaites as weapons in defense of their respective creeds. Talmudic authorities like Rashi, Abraham ben David, and Abraham ben Maimon quote Eldad as an unquestioned authority; and lexicographers and grammarians interpret some Hebrew words according to the meaning given them in Eldad's phraseology

Hebrew IVRI Ewe EƲƐ The Black Man 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9stqNVPEInA

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quote:

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What do you mean by "European Jews did not speak Hebrew, the language was revived in the 19th Century as a push for Zionism… "?

Are you referring at Yiddish? Yiddish exists from the 10th A.D. onwards. The Babylonian Talmud was written in the eastern Aramaic dialect.

What genetic prints show is that the people who exiled/ or were taken as captives to Babylon became the basis for the conversation where groups from Babylon took on the identity of the ancient Hebrews this is also in line with scripture and archeology.

The Khazar theory is been rebuked, but for certain is that the Steppe region played a significant role. All DNA traces go back to that region.

"The grammatical system of Yiddish, however, looks far more Germanic than Slavic: Yiddish has definite and indefinite articles, which express gender and case; its case system is Germanic too (none of the peculiarities of Slavic case system, like the Genitive of Negation, are present in Yiddish); and its word order is subject to rules like Verb-Second, not information structure."

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https://www.languagesoftheworld.info/bad-linguistics/turkey-shmurkey-response-das-et-al-2016.html

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Posts: 2702 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:
As I recently posted modern Hebrew is a no more than 200 yr old invention.
When Ashkenazi Jewish agents/agencies disguised themselves as Arabs and
acquired Hebrew language knowledge from Teimani sources. Teymaniym have
several Hebrew lects and the men have throughout time conversed in a Hebrew
that isn't a biblical, talmudic, or liturgical version of the tongue.

Khazars started with Irani Jews who taught and converted them as asked.
Kevin Brook, whom I corresponded with in the early 2000's has the most
extensive site on Khazars and Khazaria. A modern translation of The Kuzari
by Y*huda haLewi (himself a 12th C. Spanish & Portuguese rabbi) is the
effort of R' Daniel Korobkin. I've spoken with him at length at a Conservative
friend's son's b*riyth. She's an AfrAM who chose to become a Jew.

All Jew's today have a convert somewhere in their lineage.
Tribe can't be traced via DNA as a woman who's child's father
isn't Jewish, that child takes on the maternal grandfather's tribe.
No one has a pedigree to Imma Sarah that can be traced scientifically.

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'A follow up study, summarizing information from whole Y chromosome sequencing, focused specifically on this Ashkenazi Levite lineage and confirmed that that 65% of the 97 randomly assembled Ashkenazi Levites carried haplogroup R1a-M19820. Strikingly, the better resolved whole Y chromosome based phylogeny of haplogroup R1a, showed that 100% of these samples could be reassigned to the refined haplogroup R1a-M582. This distinctive R1a-M582 lineage was found, other than in Ashkenazi Jews, among 15.7% males self-affiliating as non-Ashkenazi Levites and, importantly, at low frequencies only in the Middle East, consistent with this location as its ancestral origin."
[…]
"The phylogeny of haplogroup R1b-M269 shows the presence of this haplogroup in various Jewish communities. The Ashkenazi samples clustered primarily with European R1b samples or created recently forming clusters. This pattern might be compatible with repeated introgression of non-Jewish European R1b Y chromosomes into the Ashkenazi Jewish population (Supplemental Figure S7)."

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We therefore propose a process of Jewish ethnogenesis shaped by the social and socioeconomic currents of early and Medieval Eurasia and contributions from a mosaic of circum Mediterranean and Black Sea communities, not one arising simply from an exiled Levantine population. In support of this view, we review evidence in support of a heterogeneous, or mosaic, origin for contemporary Jewish populations through four landmark papers (Atzmon et al. 2010; Behar et al. 2013; Costa et al. 2013; Xue et al. 2017), supplemented by significant observations from others. Together, these studies build an argument for the origins of contemporary Ashkenazi Jewry in pan-Mediterranean (as well as other European and Babylonian) converts to Judaism, and possible later contribution by Levantine Hebrew-speaking individuals.
[...]
Y-chromosome studies by Nebel et al. (2000, 2001, 2005) also supported the sug-gestion that Ashkenazi males were more closely related to“Middle Eastern”popula-tions than to“host”European populations (Rhine French, German, and various East-ern European groups). In this regard, the range of NRY haplogroups present in Jewishpopulations was broad. Of the twelve most frequently identified paternal lineages orhaplogroups (E1b1b1a-M78, E1b1b1c-M123, E3b, G2b-M377, J-P58, J1-M267,J2a-M410, J2a1b-M67, Q1b-M378, R1a1a-M17, R1b1b2-M269, R1b1-P25), allbut one may be found throughout the Mediterranean, Asia Minor, Iran, and the Caucasus (Behar et al. 2004a, 2004b; Hammer et al. 2009; Semino et al. 2004; Senguptaet al. 2006; Underhill et al. 2015). Thus, this distribution broadens the potential geo-graphic region of origin to include most of Western Asia.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:
What claim in particular do you want sourced?
If you want to rely on Euro sources go ahead.

The Y man don't know everything.
Malcioln How the Hebrews became Jews
Available from the Smithstonian
Prof Malcioln is (getting up in years)
a Caribbe Jew whom the Black Jews
of India elected as president of their
American organization.

In real life in Yemen ever since Israel first went there
Hebrew is a day to day spoken language among men.

I though everybody on to this already knew Teymaniym
are speakers of pristine Hebrew unaffected by Indo-Europea
as Aram Soba Hebrew lect may have French influence.

But then no one is born knowing everything.

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Posts: 2702 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Hebrew ceased to be an everyday spoken language somewhere between 200 and 400 CE, declining since the aftermath of the Bar Kokhba revolt.[2][12][note 2] Aramaic and, to a lesser extent,
Greek were already in use as international languages, especially among elites and immigrants.[14]

Hebrew survived into the medieval period as the language of Jewish liturgy, rabbinic literature, intra-Jewish commerce and poetry. With the rise of Zionism in the 19th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language

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Caesarea National Park before the Passover holiday led to the exposure of a large, spectacular and beautiful ancient marine cargo of a merchant ship that sank during the Late Roman period 1,600 years ago.
As soon as they emerged from the water divers Ran Feinstein and Ofer Ra‘anan of Ra‘anana contacted the Israel Antiquities Authority and reported the discovery and removal of several ancient items from the sea.
[…]
a lamp in the image of the head of an African slave,…
[…]
The sand protected the statues; consequently they are in an amazing state of preservation – as though they were cast yesterday rather than 1,600 years ago”. The coins that were discovered bear the image of the emperor Constantine who ruled the Western Roman Empire (312–324 CE) and was later known as Constantine the Great, ruler of the Roman Empire (324–337 CE), and of Licinius, an emperor who ruled the eastern part of the Roman Empire and was a rival of Constantine, until his downfall in a battle that was waged between the two rulers
According Sharvit and Planer, "The range of finds recovered from the sea reflects the large volume of trade and the status of Caesarea’s harbor during this time, which was known as period of economic and commercial stability in the wake of the stability of the Roman Empire.

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"Many assure us that the Jews are descended from those Ethiopians who were driven by fear and hatred to emigrate from their home country when Cepheus was king. There are some who say that a motley collection of landless Assyrians occupied a part of Egypt, and then built cities of their own, inhabiting the lands of the Hebrews and the nearer parts of Syria. Others again find a famous ancestry for the Jews in the Solymi who are mentioned with respect in the epics of Homer: this tribe is supposed to have founded Jerusalem (4) and named it after themselves."

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“Ziv said that many Jewish-Ethiopian customs go against modern Jewish practice, but perfectly align with customs and rituals described on scrolls found in the Qumran caves and in books dating back to the Second Temple Period. The Qumran Caves are where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, which include the third oldest Hebrew Bible ever found.”

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"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].

It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.

Conversion to Judaism was common in Rome in the first centuries BC and AD. Judaism gained many followers among all ranks of Roman Society [10-13]."

The autosomal genetic distance analysis presented here clearly demonstrates that the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin.

The resemblance of EEJ to Italians and other European populations portrays them as an autochthonous European population.

**The demographic histories of three Jewish populations exemplify how different demographic patterns make the uniparental markers more reliable for Iraqi (Babylonian) Jews and Yemenite Jews and less reliable for EEJ. Both Yemenite Jews and Iraqi Jews resemble populations from their regions of origin according to autosomal markers [1,3,30-32].

**Babylonian Jews numbered more than a million in the first century AD [35], and constituted the majority of the population in the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris in the 2nd-3rd centuries AD [36]. Gilbert [37] estimates that by 600 AD there were 806,000 Jews in Mesopotamia, and according to Sassoon [38] it was inhabited by about a million Jews in the 7th century. In the 14th century the estimates for Baghdad alone range from 70,000 to hundreds thousands [38].

*By comparing the structure of the STRs network among the various Ashkenazi populations and among the various European non-Jewish populations they reached the conclusion that a single male founder introduced this haplogroup into Ashkenazi Jews in the first millennium.

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

.


.

quote:

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Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:


That's ok... I will answer it myself...

Maternal DNA

Richards and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, which is contained in the cytoplasm of the egg and passed down only from the mother, from more than 3,500 people throughout the Near East, the Caucusus and Europe, including Ashkenazi Jews.

The team found that four founders were responsible for 40 percent of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, and that all of these founders originated in Europe. The majority of the remaining people could be traced to other European lineages.

All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, with only a few lineages originating in the Near East.

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380291/

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source article by Richards from your quote


A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages

Martin B. Richards & Luísa Pereira
Nature Communications volume 4, Article number: 2543 (2013)

Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus.

The maternal line has also been studied, and indeed Ashkenazi mtDNAs are highly distinctive, but they have proved difficult to assign to a source population1,2,11. Some progress has been made by targeting whole-mtDNA genomes or mitogenomes, which provide much higher genealogical (and therefore geographical) and chronological resolution than the control-region sequences used previously—although the far larger control-region database remains an invaluable guide to their geographic distribution. Using this approach, Behar et al.2 identified four major founder clusters, three within haplogroup K—amounting to 32% of sampled Ashkenazi lineages—and one within haplogroup N1b, amounting to another 9%. These lineages are extremely infrequent across the Near East and Europe, making the identification of potential source populations very challenging. Nevertheless, they concluded that all four most likely arose in the Near East and were markers of a migration to Europe of people ancestral to the Ashkenazim only ~2,000 years ago1,2. The remaining ~60% of mtDNA lineages in the Ashkenazim remained unassigned to any source, with the exception of the minor haplogroup U5 and V lineages (~6% in total), which implied European ancestry1,23.

Here we focus on both major and minor founders, with a much larger database from potential source populations. We first analyse 956 (72 newly generated) mitogenomes from haplogroup U8 (including 909 from haplogroup K, U8’s major subclade): 477 of these are from Europe and 106 from the Near East/Caucasus. We show that European and Near Eastern lineages largely fall into discrete, ancient clusters, with minor episodes of gene flow, suggesting that haplogroup K diversified separately in Europe and the Near East during the last glacial period. Of the three Ashkenazi founders, K1a1b1a and K1a9 were most likely assimilated in west (perhaps Mediterranean) Europe and K2a2a1 in west/central Europe.

Almost half of mtDNAs in west/central European Ashkenazi Jews belong to haplogroup K, declining to ~15% in east European Jews1,11, with almost all falling into three subclades: K1a1b1a, K1a9 and K2a2a




DISCUSSION

Our results, primarily from the detailed analysis of the four major haplogroup K and N1b founders, but corroborated with the remaining Ashkenazi mtDNAs, suggest that most Ashkenazi maternal lineages trace their ancestry to prehistoric Europe.

There is surprisingly little evidence for any significant founder event from the Near East. Fewer than 10% of the Ashkenazi mtDNAs can be assigned to a Near Eastern source with any confidence, and these are found at very low frequencies (Fig. 2). The most frequent, belonging to HV1b2, R0a1a and U7, are found at only ~3, 2 and 1% respectively.

_____________________________________

There is a lot of differing opinion on this and the article is also not that current. Anyway they are saying that other researchers had regarded haplogroup K was indicative of Near Eastern ancestry but they think these clades of it are European.
Instead they point to HV1b2, R0a1a and U7

Are any of these clades predominant in African Americas? No

So according to this article on the female side
about 8% of Askenazi have Near Eastern ancestry from these clades
and Africans Americans would be close to zero.

But that on the mother's side.
What about the paternal ancestry?

They tried to come to conclusions about ancient Egyptians in the famous Abusir El-Meleq study but based only on the maternal ancestry


As far as Christians, Muslims and Jews are concerned these are all religions so anybody who follows the traditions is one regardless of ancestry

As far as inherited ancestry of the child making the child a Jew, I don't agree with that religious concept
To me if you are not following the religious traditions your are not
The idea of a people "chosen" by God I also don't agree with.

As far as genetic studies like this go I think they have a religious element to them
I think if you want to analyze if someone has Middle Eastern ancestry or not, do that and leave the religious element out of it.

The Jews in Israel had a big influx of refugees
from Germany form WW2 and other places in Europe so they will use all types of argumentation to justify them being their because they are afraid of genocide.

The term "Semitic" is a linguistic category includes Arabs but when the term anti-Semite is used it is not usually applied to Anti-Arabs just Jews. But if the discussion is on Semitic languages Arabic and several others are included.

The earliest examples of written Paleo-Hebrew date from the 10th century BCE. Hebrew belongs to the West Semitic branch of the Afroasiatic language family. Hebrew is the only Canaanite language still spoken and the only truly successful example of a revived dead language Hebrew ceased to be an everyday spoken language somewhere between 200 and 400 CE, declining since the aftermath of the Bar Kokhba revolt.Aramaic and, to a lesser extent, Greek were already in use as international languages, especially among elites and immigrants.Hebrew survived into the medieval period as the language of Jewish liturgy, rabbinic literature, intra-Jewish commerce and poetry. With the rise of Zionism in the 19th century, it was revived as a spoken and literary language, becoming the main language of the Yishuv and subsequently of the State of Israel. According to Ethnologue, in 1998, Hebrew was the language of five million people worldwide.After Israel, the United States has the second-largest Hebrew-speaking population, with about 220,000 fluent speakers, mostly from Israel.

So my question to you is are African Americans the true Hebrews? That's what Nick Cannon and Ish Gebor say.

That if you were to trace back their roots it would lead to the Canaanite region to Israel

So would you agree that most blacks in America would be more accurately called Hebrew Americans or Israelite Americans?

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
What claim in particular do you want sourced?
If you want to rely on Euro sources go ahead.

The Y man don't know everything.
Malcioln How the Hebrews became Jews
Available from the Smithstonian
Prof Malcioln is (getting up in years)
a Caribbe Jew whom the Black Jews
of India elected as president of their
American organization.

In real life in Yemen ever since Israel first went there
Hebrew is a day to day spoken language among men.

I though everybody on to this already knew Teymaniym
are speakers of pristine Hebrew unaffected by Indo-Europea
as Aram Soba Hebrew lect may have French influence.

But then no one is born knowing everything.

---

Thanks for the source.. I shall be reading it

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
What claim in particular do you want sourced?
If you want to rely on Euro sources go ahead.

The Y man don't know everything.
Malcioln How the Hebrews became Jews
Available from the Smithstonian
Prof Malcioln is (getting up in years)
a Caribbe Jew whom the Black Jews
of India elected as president of their
American organization.

In real life in Yemen ever since Israel first went there
Hebrew is a day to day spoken language among men.

I though everybody on to this already knew Teymaniym
are speakers of pristine Hebrew unaffected by Indo-Europea
as Aram Soba Hebrew lect may have French influence.

But then no one is born knowing everything.

---

Thanks for the source.. I shall be reading it

---

.

You're most certainly welcome.

There's lots of things shared at any ribbi's shulhhan
every Shabbat between invited members, guests, and
the occasional foreign visitor that never gets documented.

Luckily I remembered his old pamphlet though it often
neglects revealing informants/sources cited in full in his
later "opus" The African Origin of Modern Judaism: From
Hebrews to Jews. But don't be swayed by the title. The
history in it is mostly Ashkenazic like found in the old
mid 20th C standards like Baron, Graetz etc..

---

Posts: 2702 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

The scholars who wrote the Encylcopedia admitted that Halevy disguised himself in order to be able to obtain Sabean inscriptions under false pretenses. This means that Ethiopian and Yemenite documents were required to educate the converts who urgently needed knowledge of Semitic Culture. To put this professor's exploit into its proper context, we remind the reader that Saba was the name of the Queen of Sheba. It was also the name of ancient Egypt. Josephus refers to Saba as the "oldest son of Cush." He also states that "Seba was a nation in Africa." See Seba and Saba(Genesis 10:7;Chronicles 1:9.)¹⁸


Abraham came from Ur, crossed into Canaan and converted to monotheism the Semitic people who resided there. Some of these people were from: Cush (Nubia and Ethiopia), Put (Libya and Morocco), Mizraim (Egypt), and Canaan (Syria and Palestine). These people in turn converted other tribes until conversion spread elsewhere in the East and later to the West. All Hebrews and Jews are converts: Kal Israel meshumadim!

---

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

The scholars who wrote the Encylcopedia admitted that Halevy disguised himself in order to be able to obtain Sabean inscriptions under false pretenses. This means that Ethiopian and Yemenite documents were required to educate the converts who urgently needed knowledge of Semitic Culture. To put this professor's exploit into its proper context, we remind the reader that Saba was the name of the Queen of Sheba. It was also the name of ancient Egypt. Josephus refers to Saba as the "oldest son of Cush." He also states that "Seba was a nation in Africa." See Seba and Saba(Genesis 10:7;Chronicles 1:9.)¹⁸


Abraham came from Ur, crossed into Canaan and converted to monotheism the Semitic people who resided there. Some of these people were from: Cush (Nubia and Ethiopia), Put (Libya and Morocco), Mizraim (Egypt), and Canaan (Syria and Palestine). These people in turn converted other tribes until conversion spread elsewhere in the East and later to the West. All Hebrews and Jews are converts: Kal Israel meshumadim!

---

Something interesting popped up in my Youtube timeline. It's legitimit deep.

"THE NEGRO A JEW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=cAdpDXiHE_I&t=307s

---

Posts: 2702 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:


"THE NEGRO A JEW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAdpDXiHE_I&t=307s [/QB]

---

page from the video:




https://www.cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/64465

Homelands and
Diasporas:
Perspectives on Jewish
Culture in the Mediterranean
and Beyond
2018
Cambridge Scholars Publishing

Let us first take a look at what is known of possible Jewish influences
along the west coast of Africa starting in the sixteenth century. As we have
seen, groups of Sephardi origin along the Senegal coast were almost from
the start mixed Afro-Judaic communities. By the middle of the sixteenth
century some knowledge of these black Jewish communities was widespread
throughout the Portuguese-speaking world. No less a figure than the
archbishop of distant Goa, Dom Gaspar de Leao, wrote about black Jews
along the coast of Africa. In his introduction to a polemical anti-Jewish
work written around 1565, some five years after the establishment of the
Inquisition in Goa, he included a general denunciation of Jews who had
rejected the Christian message. He wrote: “Judaism is an illness, one that
lasted 2,000 years and claimed 2,000 million souls, and had come about
because the Jews had originally refused remedy from the hand of the
ultimate médico, Jesus Christ.” This “illness” which afflicted the Jews had
the effect that wherever “they have lived they have been cast down and
rejected so that even the black Jews of Guinea suffer this curse.”5
How
does one understand this? What he no doubt meant is that even those Jews
who had escaped the clutches of the Inquisition and had established
themselves safely in Guinea, as Jews, and who even had the support of the
local authorities, were not as well off as they imagined and in any event
could serve as a reminder to the faithful of the consequences of rejecting
Christ and could be sure that the curse would follow them. Whatever is
implied by this reference it seems as if by the 1560s the black Jews of
Guinea had become a byword for Jews who despite everything had
survived Christian attempts to stamp them out: even the black Jews of
Guinea. Was Dom Gaspar referring to the well-known communities of la
Petite Côte which is situated rather to the north of what was considered
Guinea, or was he referring to some other community further down the
coast in the vast area known as Guinea or South Guinea which stretched as
far as Angola?
The presence of isolated Jews of different sorts further down the west
coast of Africa far from la Petite Côte is indeed attested in subsequent
years by a number of western travellers. John Ogilby (1600-1676) the
English translator and publisher, expressed what was known at the time of
the coast of Guinea: “Many Jews also are scattered over this region; some
Natives, boasting themselves of Abraham’s seed, inhabiting both sides of
the River Niger: Others are Asian strangers.” He meant simply that there
were African Jews as well as lighter colored Jews living along the Niger.6

Reflecting on the nature of Afro-Judaic communities and how they
evolved over the next century Mark and da Silva Horta speak a good deal
of ‘syncretism’ although this is a term which is only rarely used these days
by scholars of religion. Undoubtedly among the Africans “boasting
themselves of Abraham’s seed” there was a probably unconscious merging
of traditions. One possible example of an individual of mixed tradition
was spotted by a French traveller Nicolas Villault de Bellefond who
undertook one of the first voyages on behalf of the French West India
Company in 1666. He sailed down the Guinea Coast from the Senegal to
the Gold Coast, touching at many points. An account of his voyage, with
descriptions of the places visited, was published on his return, and soon
afterwards translated into English. He narrowly survived a perilous
crossing, and as his boatman was pulling towards the shore the latter
muttered in relief: “Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” Mark and da Silva Horta
devote a considerable amount of space to this pious invocation of the
patriarchs, which the boatman termed a “fetish.” Was this a trace of some
Judaic past or influence? Perhaps indeed it was. Similarly, around 1700 we
have a description of some black Portuguese inhabitants south of today’s
Senegal who appear to be in part descendants of Jews or New Christians,
perhaps of the communities of La Petite Côte. We hear that in the
Kingdom of Barra was to be found

a black nation which speaks some Portuguese. They build better than the
Negroes…According to Labat, the greater Part of these Portuguese have no
more Title to the Name of Christians, than of Whites: For, he says, only
some few of them are baptised, whose Christianity wholly consists in
wearing a great Chaplet about their Neck, a very long Sword by their Side,
a Mantle if they can get one, a Hat, a Shirt, and a Poniard. They are very
ignorant profligate abhorred by the real Christians, and despised by the
Mohammedans who look upon them as People of no Religion; because it is
well known that they never pray, but when they are with the Marabouts,
and never go to the Christian Church, but about Business: However they
are a very stout People, use firearms well, are very ready and enterprising
in Business. They serve as factors up the river for the French.…. But in
Truth they are…. a dissolute Race squandering away upon Women and
Wine, not only all they get themselves, but even what belongs to their
Employers… We shall conclude our account of them with
a Passage from le Maire; who says ‘they are partly Jews, partly Christians: That they
generally carry a Large pair of Beads, are great Cheats, very malicious;
and, in short, have all the Vices of the Portugueze, without any of their
good Qualities.

In the same year an English observer noted that on the Island of Bissau
there were suspicions that the “Negrish Portuguese” were of Jewish origin:

They have no Hogs, neither the Portuguese nor Negroes caring to breed
them. It can proceed from no religious Principle in the latter, who are
neither Jews nor Mohammedans; but what shall we think of the former?

In the early modern period, there was something of a consensus that
black Jews inhabited a number of localities along the West African coast
as well as the interior. This consensus had already been reached by the
Portuguese who imagined black Jews to be living in Angola, frequently
accusing local circumcised males of being Jews–even though circumcision
was universally practiced by the local Angolan gentile population.
In fact, for the Portuguese, as for other Europeans, there was a
powerful sense that there were Jewish polities representing the Lost Tribes
of Israel in the African interior. In 1830, for instance, a religious journal
noted:

Africa, therefore, presents the only remaining likely place: and the
advocates for the existence of the Ten Tribes very confidently maintain
that they are enclosed in the interior of that unexplored country.

The widespread nature of this discourse and its continuing relevance
over time may be adduced from the fact that when the British were
planning a first expedition up the Niger in 1842 to the unknown interior,
two London rabbis asked the expedition leaders to take with them letters,
in Hebrew and English, which they were to hand to the spiritual leaders of
any Jewish communities the Expedition might encounter along the banks

contains 15,000 inhabitants. Many slaves from Majomba and Quibangua,
pass through this country to be sent to Cuba and the Brazils. Oldendorp
speaks of black Jews being in this part of Africa; but no confirmation of
this has been met with. The practices common in many parts of Africa, are
those of sacrificing goats and sheep, making cuttings for the dead,
circumcision, and the trial drink; and these do not particularly belong to the
customs of the Jews.

Jews along the coast like Portuguese Christians had close relationships
with Africans living near their trading posts and, as we have seen, they
took African wives and concubines. One of the Jews we know to have had
initiated relations with a Wolof woman on the west coast was Manuel, the
son of the spiritual head of the community of Porto d’Ale, Jacob
Peregrino, who was accused of sleeping with one of the daughters of the
Wolof king.11
Not only did Portuguese take local women, they also sometimes
adopted local dress. In 1619 there was a case where inquisitorial authority
was brought to bear on a man born in Malacca and now living in Caccheu,
Guinea-Bissau by the name of Manoel da Silva. He was arrested and taken
to the Cape Verde Islands and thrown into jail. The charge against him
was that he had been seen in Bichangor today’s Ziguinchor in Senegal
dressed like a local black–como negra da terra–wearing rings through his
nose and a boubou. Da Silva claimed to be a Christian, and he may well
have been, in any event there was no other evidence against him other than
he had ‘gone native’. Reading between the lines it might suggest that Jews
and New Christians were even by this time prone to adopt the garb and
habits of the local population and this in itself was sufficient to attract the
unwanted attentions of the Holy Office should they fall into its clutches.12
As they adopted local dress they also in time, in some cases, embraced
local beliefs. In this way, the religious practices of Jews and Africans
interacted symbiotically in the creation of religious practices analogous to
those created by the fusion of Christianity and African religions elsewhere

in Africa. Not very much is known of these new religious movements –
indeed Judaic religious movements of this sort worldwide require more
research. These dislocated people with such traumatic histories on the
contested frontier between Africa and colonial interventions eventually in
many cases lost contact with the Jews of the world and sought cultural
reassurance in the religious and social landscape, which surrounded them.
Little is understood of this process

There are then numerous references after the seventeenth century to
black Jews in various places in West Africa. One of these communities,
while being little-known or not at all known today, even by specialists in
the field of African Judaic studies, was to exercise a profound fascination
on western thinkers and travelers for hundreds of years. This strangely
unremarked group was influential not so much for what we know about it,
because, in truth, we know little about it

A more sober note with respect to the coast of Loango, just
north of Angola, was struck by the missionary John Clarke who wrote a
very informative little book on what was known at the time of the
languages and dialects of Africa as well as the people and customs of the
interior. He mentioned the town of Bonali in Loango which

contains 15,000 inhabitants. Many slaves from Majomba and Quibangua,
pass through this country to be sent to Cuba and the Brazils. Oldendorp
speaks of black Jews being in this part of Africa; but no confirmation of
this has been met with. The practices common in many parts of Africa, are
those of sacrificing goats and sheep, making cuttings for the dead,
circumcision, and the trial drink; and these do not particularly belong to the
customs of the Jews.

The Kingdom of
Loango was a powerful, trading centralized pre-colonial African state
which survived until the nineteenth century. The Kingdom of Loango had
a number of well-constructed towns, including the important walled
trading town of Loango itself. The Maloango, Loango’s ruler, played the
competing trading nations (specifically the Portuguese and Dutch) against
each other and Vili middlemen operated as brokers between local traders
and European ship captains. This led to great fortunes being made much of
which was in the hands of African nobles.15
As we have seen there was a sense in mediaeval Europe that the
interior of Africa was peopled in part by Jews in the form of the Lost
Tribes of Israel and this was particularly the case in the West African
hinterland. It appears however that a specific connection had also existed
for many centuries between the Loango coastline and Jews. Some fifteenth
century European maps designated the coast near Loango “the Gulf of the
Jews” (golfo do judeus or golfos dos judeos). Speaking of the great
voyages of the explorer Diogo Cão (c.1452-c.1486), the Anglo-German
geographer Ernst Georg Ravenstein (1834-1913) speculated: “It may be
presumed that Cão, in the course of this second voyage, gained a fuller
knowledge of the coast first discovered by him to the north of the Congo.
He may thus have visited and named the bay called Golfo do Judeus, the
Jews’ Bay of old maps, either because there was a Jew on board his vessel,
or, what is less likely, because he was struck with the Jewish physiognomy
of some of the natives.”

So had a Jewish
community persisted for some three hundred years without any description
of it reaching the Jewish world and without any known communication
between the community and Jews elsewhere? After Bastian’s visit to the
Loango coast- although the community was frequently mentioned by
nineteenth and early twentieth century scholars-no-one else, to my
knowledge, went to visit the community and its later fate is unrecorded.
Further north in Senegal and elsewhere the ancient Jewish communities
seem to have disappeared almost without a trace. Is it fanciful to imagine
that the Bani Israil community of eastern Senegal, now practicing
Muslims, referred to in an article by Cnaan Liphshiz reported in the Jewish
Telegraphic Agency on May 23, 2013 refers to the descendants of these
people?
What traces are left of the black Jews of Loango? Today there are
Judaising movements in neighboring Gabon. If there are any connections
between these movements and the black Jews of Loango is currently
unknown and is a question that requires further research.

Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Geber:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

The scholars who wrote the Encylcopedia admitted that Halevy disguised himself in order to be able to obtain Sabean inscriptions under false pretenses. This means that Ethiopian and Yemenite documents were required to educate the converts who urgently needed knowledge of Semitic Culture. To put this professor's exploit into its proper context, we remind the reader that Saba was the name of the Queen of Sheba. It was also the name of ancient Egypt. Josephus refers to Saba as the "oldest son of Cush." He also states that "Seba was a nation in Africa." See Seba and Saba(Genesis 10:7;Chronicles 1:9.)¹⁸


Abraham came from Ur, crossed into Canaan and converted to monotheism the Semitic people who resided there. Some of these people were from: Cush (Nubia and Ethiopia), Put (Libya and Morocco), Mizraim (Egypt), and Canaan (Syria and Palestine). These people in turn converted other tribes until conversion spread elsewhere in the East and later to the West. All Hebrews and Jews are converts: Kal Israel meshumadim!

---

Something interesting popped up in my Youtube timeline. It's legitimit deep.

"THE NEGRO A JEW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=cAdpDXiHE_I&t=307s

---

Simeon Niger is a person in the Book of Acts in the New Testament. He is mentioned in Acts 13:1 as being one of the "prophets and teachers" in the church of Antioch:

In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.

— Acts 13:1, NIV
The nickname Niger means "black", and refers to a dark complexion or African descent.[1]


Simeon (Niger) & Lucius of Cyrene (Hebrew Brothers in the Bible)- Pastor Omar Thibeaux

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsIyxHD945c

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
I like the way this thread moved from celebrity
to researching Israelite and Jewish prescences.

---

Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
@Tukuler ... true..

@Ish Geber... origin of the word Niger
https://www.persee.fr/doc/cea_0008-0055_1964_num_4_15_3019

Niger is Latin, Moro is Greek

Now why does the wiki claim Niger refers to black, dark complexion or African descent? I am working on a thesis.. on why that is...but tentatively I think the designation includes "Simeon Niger" " Cyrene" "Simeon Peter also Cephus" "Phineus" ( black) "Joshua of Nun" and probably Elijah, also Tribe of Simeon and Tribe of Judah, Jesus and Joshua ... names may be indicative of blackness whether that is for theological, metaphorical, historical, is anyone guess... I believe it may have to do with the type of messiah, or that prototypical messiah that is black..So the new testament could be trying to mirror the old testament but here goes and I hope you can follow the winding trail...

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quote:

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Αἰθίοψ , οπος, ὁ, fem. Αἰθιοπίς , ίδος, ἡ （Αἰθίοψ as fem., A.Fr.328, 329): pl.

A. “Αἰθιοπῆες” Il.1.423, whence nom. “Αἰθιοπεύς” Call.Del.208: (αἴθω, ὄψ):—properly, Burnt-face, i.e. Ethiopian, negro, Hom., etc.; prov., Αἰθίοπα σμήχειν 'to wash a blackamoor white', Luc.Ind. 28.

2. a fish, Agatharch.109.

II. Adj., Ethiopian, “Αἰθιοπὶς γλῶσσα” Hdt.3.19; “γῆ” A.Fr.300, E.Fr.228.4: Subst. Αἰθιοπίς, ἡ, title of Epic poem in the Homeric cycle; also name of a plant, silver sage, Salvia argentea, Dsc.4.104:— also Αἰθιόπιος , α, ον, E.Fr.349: Αἰθιοπικός , ή, όν, Hdt., etc.; Αἰ. κύμινον, = ἄμι, Hp.Morb.3.17, Dsc. 3.62:—Subst. Αἰθιοπία , ἡ, Hdt., etc.
2. red-brown, AP7.196 (Mel.), cf. Ach. Tat.4.5.

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quote:

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African nation, named for the river Niger, mentioned by that name 1520s (Leo Africanus), probably an alteration (by influence of Latin niger "black") of a local Tuareg name, egereou n-igereouen, from egereou "big river, sea" + n-igereouen, plural of that word. Translated in Arabic as nahr al-anhur "river of rivers."

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Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged |